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15 Feb 09 - 10:41 PM (#2567958) Subject: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger Now that he's provided for a filibuster proof majority for the stimulus package, the truth has come out about deals Burris had talked about with Blago. What kinds of concessions might the Republicans have gotten if he hadn't been there? It looks like Chicago politics as usual. |
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15 Feb 09 - 11:21 PM (#2567971) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: dick greenhaus From what I hear, the deals were talked at Burris, rather than talked about by Burris. And I don't see how there'd be a Republican replacement in any case. |
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16 Feb 09 - 07:24 AM (#2568126) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: kendall O'Bama is going to drag the republicans, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century like it or not. The idea of one party rule scares me, but at least it's MY party! |
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16 Feb 09 - 07:55 AM (#2568141) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger I like the idea of the Republican party being dragged into the 21st Century, but Obama certainly isn't there, so how is he going to do it? |
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16 Feb 09 - 10:33 AM (#2568217) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Stilly River Sage Here's a story on MSNBC that a friend sent yesterday. Geez, Louise. The republicans still managed to get a fair number of concessions. They aren't completely out of the picture, but after the hash they've made of things for the last dozen years, they need to sit on their hands and stop throwing out the same old hackneyed nonsense. They can't expect a different outcome from the same stupid practices they had in place, yet they're still in there begging for tax cuts for the rich and keeping bad banking practices in place. SRS |
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16 Feb 09 - 11:13 AM (#2568243) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger Okay, I read the article and couldn't see where it talked about Republicans. |
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16 Feb 09 - 12:07 PM (#2568281) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Bill D Obviously, no matter what is discovered about this, it is time for a law requiring ALL Senate seats to be filled by election, to remove Governors from the process. Just too many chances for chicanery. |
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16 Feb 09 - 12:29 PM (#2568304) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: GUEST,heric It might be nice to have a little Constitutional amendment to abolish the Senate and the House and have all Executive Cabinet positions filled by election. |
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16 Feb 09 - 12:42 PM (#2568317) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Stilly River Sage No, I talked about republicans in response to the remark about dragging and numbers and such. |
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16 Feb 09 - 12:47 PM (#2568321) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: wysiwyg I really liked the Burris press conference yesterday. What I heard was a black man, experienced in leadership and in being a black man IN leadership, asking his press audience of white babies if they'd ever done a lynching before, because they were not doing it right and therefore he would have to tell them how to try to go about it, which they would then not be able to do. Masterful, really, but then I'm FROM Illinois and I probably read it all differently than folks from elsewhere. ~S~ |
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16 Feb 09 - 01:26 PM (#2568363) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger It was Burris himself who amended his testimony. If there hadn't been something out there to trip him up, why would he bring it up now? |
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16 Feb 09 - 04:12 PM (#2568518) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Bill D He's amending it because someone found out that he HAD other contacts with Blago's team. No one in his position would volunteer more info than they asked for.... I kinda 'think' I agree with WYSI on this...but of course, no one can 'prove' it, |
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16 Feb 09 - 04:18 PM (#2568525) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger Well, if there's lynching involved, it's obviously self inflicted. |
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16 Feb 09 - 04:30 PM (#2568536) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Bill D Burris, sadly, was a 'mostly' honest, but mediocre politician with delusions of grandeur who had lost his last several elections. Have you seen the pictures of his tomb/monument where he is to be buried? It's inscribed with his accomplishments...and I'm sure some stone carver is now getting paid for adding "served in U.S. Senate" to the list. Burris was Blago's revenge for being tossed out. |
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16 Feb 09 - 05:05 PM (#2568573) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: wysiwyg Mediocre as a POLITICIAN perhaps-- which if we were to be logical ought to earn him sainthood at Mudcat-- but he was a damn good bureaucrat who did a good job for his state long before it was fashionable to have Black elected state officials. That's what he is drawing on now-- the fact that people in his state KNOW that he has been there for them, in the trenches, at various levels of gummint and that more than anything, they can look to him to DO HIS JOB and stay out of the line of fire. ~S~ |
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16 Feb 09 - 08:33 PM (#2568723) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Bobert I like the guy but... ...he's toast!!! He'll be gone in 3 months... B~ |
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16 Feb 09 - 09:12 PM (#2568746) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger Too bad! He's no crookeder than all them other politicians from Chicago. |
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16 Feb 09 - 09:21 PM (#2568755) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Ebbie My guess is that he decided to cut his losses - after all, he is supposed to have said that he thinks the FBI taped one of his phone conversations with Blago's brother. Hey! It is interesting that some of you are saying that the Senate and the House should be revamped. Take a look at the thread I posted - Political Appointments and Effectiveness - at a panel of talking heads where Carl Bernstein says what he thinks should happen to Congress. |
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16 Feb 09 - 10:30 PM (#2568808) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Bill D Boy, the evening shows on MSNBC are sure getting some interviews suggesting that Burris may be in over his head.,,,and some are betting that he WILL be gone before it's all over. I won't be betting on this one till I hear more details. |
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16 Feb 09 - 11:08 PM (#2568840) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: wysiwyg Naw, he'll stay-- because think what kinda mess they'd be in to pick someone ELSE. ~S~ |
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17 Feb 09 - 12:23 AM (#2568873) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: katlaughing Some of them, like Bill said, on MSNBC were saying he's gone, no doubt about it. I don't know what to think as I haven't heard/read enough. |
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17 Feb 09 - 12:56 AM (#2568882) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Ebbie Wouldn't the new Illinois governor be the one to choose someone? Often, I think, the new choice for the US Senate comes out of the state Senate or House. That's what Frank Murkowski did when he became Alaska governor- he selected his own daughter for his seat in the US Senate. Of course, he became the second most UNpopular governor in the country, but that's a different story. I think that Senator Lisa Murkowski is well enough liked, but I don't really know. |
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17 Feb 09 - 09:11 AM (#2569111) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger Actually, it's a good idea to keep Burris around. That way people won't get bored, and they won't forget Rod Blagojevich. |
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17 Feb 09 - 12:04 PM (#2569236) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Bill D gee... I hate to almost agree with Rig on something.. *grin*.. but he may have a point. |
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17 Feb 09 - 12:30 PM (#2569263) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: pdq Here is the basic reason he will stay in the Senate or be forced to resign: polls. If polls show that he is tainted and will lose to the Republican challenger in the 2010 election, he is history. If polls show the will win the election, he stays. See Senator Toricelli for precident. |
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17 Feb 09 - 03:25 PM (#2569401) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: heric "In a letter filed Feb. 5 with his latest affidavit,Burris said, "I did not donate or help raise a single dollar for the Governor from those conversations." But Burris didn't reveal that he tried to put a fundraiser together for Blagojevich--and failed because of a lack of donors--before deeming it inappropriate." -AP |
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17 Feb 09 - 03:28 PM (#2569404) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: heric He keeps pushing the button on that hot seat he's sitting on - almost as if he enjoys it. |
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17 Feb 09 - 05:10 PM (#2569482) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: artbrooks Can you flush a hot seat? Maybe that's the button he's looking for! |
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17 Feb 09 - 11:33 PM (#2569711) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Sawzaw Should Burris be Scootered off to Jail for perjury? Burris acknowledges trying to raise campaign funds for Blagojevich as he vied for Senate seat Washington Post February 18 This blockbuster disclosure came after Mr. Burris released an affidavit over the weekend that he filed with the Illinois House impeachment committee this month that revealed he was asked by Mr. Blagojevich's brother to raise campaign money for the governor. In testimony before the committee in January, when asked about conversations with associates of the governor, Mr. Burris had acknowledged only one conversation with a former chief of staff for Mr. Blagojevich in which Mr. Burris expressed interest in the open Senate seat. |
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18 Feb 09 - 09:46 AM (#2569970) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Peter T. I think delusional is the word one is groping for here. yours, Peter T. |
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18 Feb 09 - 10:43 AM (#2570017) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: GUEST,heric Judge: "You're saying, Doctor, that he suffers from delusions of honesty?" Wintess: "Yes. It is a well documented syndrome, most often encountered in state and local politicians, and, of course, in lawyers." |
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18 Feb 09 - 10:52 AM (#2570034) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: robomatic conversation at lunch yesterday with folks like me peripherally related to the oil bidness: Me: So before we try so |
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18 Feb 09 - 11:01 AM (#2570042) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: robomatic I hit the wrong button. If there's a moderator, please eliminate my previous missive and this sentence! conversation at lunch yesterday with folks like me peripherally related to the oil bidness. Me: I always say that Socialism is a great theory but it shouldn't be left to the government! Chet: I wonder how folks here'd like it if they had a Chavez running the place like down in Venezuela. After that vote down there he's likely to be dictator. Edward: Well, South Americans, they like a dictator, y'know, Peron, people like him. Chet: Or that guy in Russia, pyutin, he's not lettin' go of the reins, is he? Sam: Russians don't seem to have a feeling for Democracy. They're whole history is full of Tsars and dictators. Me: Well, Chavez is goin' nowhere, first he wages class warfare in order to get elected, then he takes over the oil companies and tries to get America all riled up. But 'W' doesn't play, so he's left with blaming Jews and there aren't that many Jews in Venezuela- Sam: Maybe he can get some help from Putin! Chet: And how about that Illinois thing, that new Senator Burris and his story? Think they're gonna change him out? Me: Naw, people from Illinois like a strong leader, someone who gets in and won't be pushed around. Must be a lot of Russians and Venezuelans there! Sam: Yeah, Illinois has no history of Democracy either! |
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19 Feb 09 - 01:08 AM (#2570627) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Genie Since the Constitution gives the states the right to decide who will represent them in Congress, I see no real problem with governors being allowed to appoint interim Senators, to fill mid-term vacancies, if that is what the citizens of a state wish. However, I think generally the citizens of a state would be better served if a) such an appointment had to be from the same party as the departing Senator (except maybe in the case of impeachment), and b) the state legislature could veto such an appointment with, say, a 60% vote. As for Burris, I kind of feel sorry for him, but I think in the interest of his state, his party, and perhaps the country, maybe he should resign. His appointment has been contaminated by his contacts with the disgraced and corrupt Blagojevich. Moreover, he is very likely not only not to be elected Senator from Illinois when his interim term expires but, in effect, to hand that seat to a Republican. If nothing else, his age weighs against his chances. If the current Illinois governor is allowed to appoint someone else, I think he is likely to appoint someone with a much better shot at holding that seat for a while. Burris could resign and still hold his head high, much as Bill Richardson withdrew from consideration as Commerce Secretary, to avoid entangling his party and the country in a protracted "distraction." |
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19 Feb 09 - 03:01 PM (#2571117) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: GUEST,mg He could do that...I must say I like the guy although I haven't studied the situation at all..just a gut feeling. He could also say that he plans to not run in 2010, but just wants to do the best for the citizens of Illinois etc.etc. Thatis probably what I would do in his shoes. mg |
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19 Feb 09 - 03:41 PM (#2571146) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Art Thieme I'm with WYSI on this. Susan, good thoughts. Those not from Chicago can't understand what we are saying. It's like Miegs Field on the lake being taken out after becoming a billionaires corporate airport: The lakefront, by law, has to be, more or less, "Forever open, clear and free." So it was taken back for the people of the town by the same guy, Daley, who wants to give some of it away for an Olympic playground. (A bad idea.) We do gotta be vigilant in Illinois. Take it easy, but take it! Art Thieme (Peru, Illinois) Where our governors make our license plates! |
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19 Feb 09 - 04:12 PM (#2571175) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger "Where our governors make our license plates!" That's a great line, Art. The should replace, "The Land of Lincoln," or whatever they're using now. |
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20 Feb 09 - 11:48 PM (#2572285) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Genie Great Illinois motto, Art! OK, Burris probably hasn't done anything felonious, but I think there are times when a statesman bows out for the good of his/her party, his/her state, and the country. This situation in Illinois is just so contaminated and convoluted that the Lt. Gov.-turned-Gov needs to appoint someone else, and ideally someone with fewer question marks surrounding him or her. Yes, Burris could promise not to run for re-election, but I'm not sure you could hold him to that. Plus, the Democrats -- who would have had a solid lock on that seat had Obama not become President -- would lose the incumbency advantage. I can't see how having Burris, especially with the Blagojevich cloud now hanging over him, retain that Senate seat is good for the Democrats or for the country. |
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21 Feb 09 - 12:19 AM (#2572294) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Bill D The feeling I get is that Burris wants to BE in the Senate so badly that he will put his need above the good of the party OR common sense. He is becoming a major distraction. Serious folks are asking him to resign. I can't see how he can function under such a cloud. |
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21 Feb 09 - 12:50 AM (#2572306) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: mg I don't know. I think he has a lot to say that is important and interesting. Of course, there are political calculations etc. He did live in a cesspool of nasty politics and would not be totally untainted...but he has some sort of spirit that I like. I think he is guaranteed not to win in 2010. I would let the cloud hang over him, as it will, and look for replacements in 2010. mg |
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21 Feb 09 - 03:28 AM (#2572322) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Genie It's not that I don't like him or think he would be a decent Senator, Mary. But let's put it all in perspective. A. Not only was he not elected to the Senate, but Burris has a history of losing Democratic primaries in Illinois when he ran for any major offices. B. He was appointed, without any substantial rationale being given for the choice, by a governor whose ethics and respect for the law were at the time seriously in question and who shortly thereafter was impeached and removed from office (almost unanimously) and who is likely to face criminal charges -- in connection with his appointing someone to fill that same Senate seat. C. The Senate vacancy in question was a seat previously held by an extremely popular Illinois Senator, elected to that position with solid, widespread bipartisan support and leaving the seat only because he had just won a resounding victory as US President. Several other Illinios Democrats were passed over by Blagojevich, quite possibly in part because they would not be party to that Governor's quid-pro-quo scheme. Some of them probably were (are) more likely to gain a substantial degree of the kind of support their predecessor had. The Governor should have tried, inasmuch as he could, to find the person best suited to fill Obama's political shoes, but it does not appear he did. D. Burris's age, in and of itself, makes him a risky choice in terms of the Democrats retaining this seat (which they only 'lost' because their junior Senator was elected President). As I said before, incumbency matters, and even if Burris agrees not to run in 2010, his staying in the Senate would be throwing away that advantage. Filling the Senate seat of an extremely popular and young politician by appointing someone who will be basically obsolete when the term is up (for whatever reason) is a stupid move on the part of whoever does the appointing. And does anyone think a Governor who really had the interests of his state and his party at heart would have done that? |
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21 Feb 09 - 09:15 AM (#2572414) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger The longer this goes on, the better the Republican candidate will look in 2010, whoever he or she will be! |
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21 Feb 09 - 10:35 PM (#2572866) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: wysiwyg Thanks for your comments, Art. Really folks, if you have not lived in Illinois a long time nor in Chicago at all, you can' really comprehend Illinois politics looking at them from the outside. It's just all going to be so much wackier than you can believe, that the best way to enjoy Illinois politics is just to sit back and watch, and enjoy the surprises. I used to say-- and it's probably still true-- that in Illinois politics, just imagine what would be the FUNNIEST "hidden" factors, facts, reasons, or motives. Get wild with your thinking until you are splitting your sides. BINGO-- that is probably EXACTLY what is actually going on. It's not necessarily the scummiest thing, but the funniest. Illinois politics is best as entertainment value. And another thing-- there is usually a mob angle not being talked about, that it is better for all concerned NOT to talk about. ~S~ |
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22 Feb 09 - 12:07 AM (#2572912) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: GUEST,heric Well along your lines then WYSIWYG, |
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22 Feb 09 - 12:10 AM (#2572914) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: GUEST,heric . . a Chicago Sun-Times editorialist was speculating a couple of days back that Burris thought he was buying a much lesser office for a friend or relative, but Blago then decided to pull off a funny trick on everyone, including Burris. |
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22 Feb 09 - 09:32 AM (#2572970) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger "...if you have not lived in Illinois a long time nor in Chicago at all, you can' really comprehend Illinois politics looking at them from the outside." Unfortunately, Chicago politics is what brought us Barack Obama, so now we're all inovlved in it, whether we wanted to be or not! |
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22 Feb 09 - 09:51 AM (#2572976) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: wysiwyg LANGUAGE ALERT- post contains troublesome words Burris has said he had been campaigning politicos for the open Senate seat all over the state, working every contact he had, in the time leading up to this. It's my impression that Blago sent the money-conversation his way well after Burris had been doing that for ages. I suppose he might have thought that by asking for that seat he might get something smaller, but I think it's that he was playing the race card-- "If you lookin' for a good Black man to take Obama's seat, take me, not that pesky Jackson fella. Don't forget that this n***** knows how to play nice." (It's an Oreo fight.) To Burris, the perfectly usual process WOULD have been to help Blago with fundraising-- to be asked to do it would have been Blago saying, "I hear you, Roland, and let's see if you're serious." This is not the same as buying a seat. Buying a seat IS a no-no and no smart pol wants to get caught doing THAT. But helping one another raise campaign funds is very much a normative part of political activity. Blago has made it retroactively bad to do it in ANY form, in everyone's eyes, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do it, and he did it the wrong way (Blago). To expect Burris to tar himself with the Blago-brush is to assume he could have known that Blagoboy was going to catch his own dick in the door.... but he couldn't have known that till the Blago story hit the front page and stayed there. SO-- There is a logical line of reasoning that means that Burris didn't "confess" when first asked because he didn't have a consciousness, yet, that he had done anything that could be perceived as wrong. NOW I am sure he wishes he had spoken up sooner, but his first reaction was as I described earlier-- about not being able to lynch him quite yet on the basis of what he'd said and done to that point. But also, NOW the spotlight has lulled him into not seeing a lawyoo before blabbing on camera. If he can get OFF the camera soon enough, tho, he'll stay. === If Illinois politics is not your homebrew, try listening to those of us who were raised on it, and not arguing pilpul with us over the details. I don't care if you agree, but you may learn a few interesting things from us that might give you a different heads-up NEXT time. :~) And please, don't ask for my credentials. I'd have to get into the Brach thing, and I don't have time! :~) ~Susan |
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23 Feb 09 - 07:04 AM (#2573594) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger The problem is, as I see it anyway, now that Illinois politics has gone national, everybody has to deal with it. There's no escape from it. |
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23 Feb 09 - 11:52 AM (#2573834) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Bill D cartoon again more related to Burris' tomb ...and the tomb itself! (I saw one, which I can't find right now, showing Burris trying to carve his latest 'accomplishments' onto his headstone, only to have it crumble and fall over on him) finally |
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23 Feb 09 - 09:49 PM (#2574301) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Riginslinger Well, at least he's drawing the fire off of Oh Bummer! |
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23 Feb 09 - 10:52 PM (#2574323) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: Bill D ....wonder where you got the nickname of Riginslimer? |
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23 Feb 09 - 11:03 PM (#2574329) Subject: RE: BS: Roland Burris on the hot seat again From: wysiwyg Oh, be nice, Bill.... the better man, what-what.... ~S~ (hi Bill) |
