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19 Feb 09 - 03:12 PM (#2571124) Subject: BS: Lancashire / Yorkshire dialect - Norse origins From: Austin P I've been having conversations with a friend in Denmark about the the origins of Yorkshire and Lancashire dialect terms that have close parallels in modern Scandanavian languages. This is well known in lowland scots but there seems very little on 'Danelaw' dialects. Can anyone recommend a dictionary of dialects that gives origins as opposed to touristy (how to speak lanky) publications. I've drawn a blank mostly. Some examples: English / Dialect / Danish Bridge / Broo / Bro She / Hoo / Hun (pron Hoon) Child / Barn / Barn Barn / Laithe / Lade Pig / Grease /Gris Lie (down) / Lig / Ligge Play /Lake / Lake Burn / Swither / Swide (archaic) Stream / Beck / Beck Scream / Skrike / Skrike Church / Kirk / Kirke Some obvious ones don't even appear as Danish in the Oxford dictionary (well, my copy) - e.g. Skullduggery - the Danish for 'guilt' is Skyldig -> Skyldigeri -> shurely shome shimilarity? Perhaps our Scandinavian Hatters can help ... Mange Tak AP |
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19 Feb 09 - 08:00 PM (#2571360) Subject: RE: BS: Lancashire and Yorkshire - Norse origins From: Geoff the Duck Certainly, the links between old Yorkshire dialect speakers and norse languages has been commented on. It used to be said that if you set down a Yorkshire Dalesman in Scandinavia, that he would be able to understand enough of what was said to be able to get by. That said I don't know the norse to be able to compare. Another factor to watch out for is the difference between the spoken word and how it might be written down. Often a spoken sound will be spelt differently in two languages, but pronounced almost identically. Alternatively the same word spelling may be pronounced very differently in different parts of the same country (for instance the word "scone" in North and south of England). There are also many similarities between spoken Dutch and the same sentences spoken in parts of Yorkshire. Quack! GtD. |
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20 Feb 09 - 05:04 AM (#2571585) Subject: RE: BS: Lancashire and Yorkshire - Norse origins From: GUEST, Sminky It used to be said that if you set down a Yorkshire Dalesman in Scandinavia, that he would be able to understand enough of what was said to be able to get by. This has actually been tried - although it was a Cumbrian hill farmer and I think they took him to Norway. He was sat him down with a local sheep farmer and they chatted quite happily about life, the universe, everything. |
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20 Feb 09 - 07:02 AM (#2571627) Subject: RE: BS: Lancashire and Yorkshire - Norse origins From: Bryn Pugh We used to live in West Lancashire, and are of opinion that it might well have been colonised by Hiberno-Scands from East Ireland. |
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20 Feb 09 - 07:26 AM (#2571635) Subject: RE: BS: Lancashire and Yorkshire - Norse origins From: GUEST, Sminky They took a DNA sample from a guy in Merseyside and found an amazingly high proportion of Norse 'blood'. I think the general consensus is that England's west coast was infiltrated by the 'Irish' norsemen. The famous Cuerdale horde, found about a mile from where I'm sitting right now, was thought to have been buried by vikings making their way to York from Ireland. |
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20 Feb 09 - 08:51 AM (#2571681) Subject: RE: BS: Lancashire and Yorkshire - Norse origins From: theleveller The story about the conversation between people from Yorkshire and Denmark arose when some Danish soldiers were billeted in East Yorkshire (I think during the First World War). The E Yorks dialect is (was) very different to that of other parts of Yorkshire. My grandfather was able to speak it (though he rarely did), having been born and bred on the Wolds. This dialect is said to go no further east than Selby (presumably because it couldn't swin across the river). I've jst found this piece: "It has to be said, though, that for most Yorkshire speakers, this isophone has now drifted northwards to the Tees. Even so, a number older speakers (particularly in the remoter parts of the Dales, the North York Moors and the Yorkshire Wolds, do still preserve some of these Old Northern vowels. One hundred years ago, however, the change would have been instantly noticeable the moment you "crossed the line". The distinction was particularly sharp at Selby, where the isophone followed the line of the River Ouse, dividing the West and East Ridings. Today, you really have to visit Durham and Northumberland to be sure of hearing younger speakers using the old northeastern forms." |
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20 Feb 09 - 09:09 AM (#2571695) Subject: RE: BS: Lancashire and Yorkshire - Norse origins From: John MacKenzie Anywhere the Vikings colonised has this linguistic legacy. I found many Norwegian words to be almost the same as Scots dialect ones. It's definitely a Viking related thing, and not particular to just Lancs, and Yorks. |
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20 Feb 09 - 08:11 PM (#2572204) Subject: RE: BS: Lancashire and Yorkshire - Norse origins From: Paul Burke It's often forgotten that a third group accompanied the Angles and Saxons in the conquest of Britain- the Jutes. Now think a moment- they were from Germany- how would THEY pronounce their name. The YOOTS. Where in Britain do people use a word like that? In Derbyshire of course. Even eighty year old men call each other "youth"- pronounced YOOT. I rest my case. |