Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)

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Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)

07 Jan 06 - 10:08 PM (#1643823)
Subject: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: GUEST,leeneia

I tried some searching, didn't find anything.

Does anybody know the origin of this song?

07 Jan 06 - 10:10 PM (#1643827)
Subject: Lyr Add: ISTANBUL (NOT CONSTANTINOPLE) (Four Lads)
From: Peace

Istanbul (Not Constantinople)

-Artists: The Four Lads
-peak Billboard position # 10 in 1953
-Words by Jimmy Kennedy and Music by Nat Simon

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul not Constantinople
Been a long time gone
Old Constantinople's still has Turkish delight
On a moonlight night

Evr'y gal in Constantinople
Is a Miss-stanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it, I can't say

(People just liked it better that way)

Take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks'

Istanbul!!

Istanbul!!

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it, I can't say
(People just liked it better that way)

Take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks'

'stanbul!!

07 Jan 06 - 10:13 PM (#1643831)
Subject: RE: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: Charley Noble

LOL

Where was I in 1953?

Charley Noble

08 Jan 06 - 01:22 AM (#1643987)
Subject: RE: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: open mike

this was also done more recently by trout fishing in america
see here: http://www.troutmusic.com/bio.htm
although when i looked thru their albums i could only find these songs ..with geographical reference to plasces in the middle or far east
Dead Egyptian Blues
Last days of Pompeii

08 Jan 06 - 01:59 AM (#1643999)
Subject: Chords Add: ISTANBUL (NOT CONSTANTINOPLE) (4 Lads)
From: chico


  Am                    (E7)
  Istanbul was Constantinople
  Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
          E7
  Been a long time gone, Constantinople
            Am                   E7
  Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night
   
  Every gal in Constantinople
  Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
  So if you've a date in Constantinople
  She'll be waiting in Istanbul
  
       Am  E7   Am
  Even old New York
  Was once New Amsterdam
   F°
  Why they changed it I can't say
   E7
  People just liked it better that way
    
  So take me back to Constantinople
  No, you can't go back to Constantinople
  Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
  Why did Constantinople get the works
  That's nobody's business but the Turks'
    
  Do do do, do-do-do dododododo
     Oh, oh-oh-oh...
  Do do do, do-do-do dododododo
  Do do do, do-do-do dododododo
  Do - Istanbul
   
   Em/maj7 
  Itstanbul!

08 Jan 06 - 09:41 AM (#1644057)
Subject: RE: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: GUEST,leeneia

Thanks, everybody. There are a lot more words to this song than I thought.

Thanks, also, for the 1953 date. I THOUGHT I remembered it from early TV, but people where telling me it was a 1960's song. Ha!

08 Jan 06 - 11:49 AM (#1644143)
Subject: RE: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: Charley Noble

It's all coming back to me now! The back up files finally kicked in.

It was a real brain worm!

Thanks for refreshing this one.

Charley Noble

08 Jan 06 - 02:54 PM (#1644303)
Subject: RE: Origins: You can't go back to Constantinople
From: Joybell

Always loved this song. I like the logic of it. True-Love has been singing it since the 1950s. It fits well with the - "They wear no pants in the hoochie coochie dance" song. Our Cockatoo just falls about when he hears that one. Sings along and all. Cheers, Joy

02 Mar 09 - 05:47 AM (#2579122)
Subject: Origins: Istanbul
From: Joe Offer

This is a song that has always intrigued me, and I have never taken the time to dig into it. Peace sent me this (and I verified the lyrics from the recording):

Istanbul (Not Constantinople)

ISTANBUL (NOT CONSTANTINOPLE)

Trevor Horn Orchestra

Mona Lisa Smile

Istanbul (Not Constantinople) is the fourth (4th) song on the Flood album and is the eighth (8th) song, in live format, on the Severe Tire Damage album.

from

Istanbul (Not Constantinople)A friend of my brother taught me the song "Charlottetown is burning down, good bye, goodbye...Charlottetown Town is burning down, good bye Liza Jane. ...
ruk.ca/article/756 - 21k - Cached - Similar pages
Anyhow, I think we need to research this and get good lyrics and background information. I sure don't see the connection to "Abdul..."

Thanks, Peace.

-Joe-

Click on the Trevor Horn Orchestra link - I think you'll like the recording.

02 Mar 09 - 07:01 AM (#2579156)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Will Fly

I remember this on the radio in the '50s. The tune always reminded me of "Putting On The Ritz" - which was surely much earlier. The version I recall in the UK was by the bandleader Edmundo Ros. I can't see any connection to "Abdul A Bulbul Emir" - which was made famous in the '20s by Frank Crumit.

02 Mar 09 - 07:08 AM (#2579158)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Leadfingers

Seems to have been published in 1953 -- Kennedy and Simon the writers .

02 Mar 09 - 07:31 AM (#2579171)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: The Borchester Echo

Roger Tallroth (of Väsen) has written a fantastic tune called Istanbul about a journey to (or from). Can't remember which.
This doesn't, of course, have anything to do with the current topic but it's well worth listening to.

02 Mar 09 - 10:07 AM (#2579249)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,leeneia

Tin Pan Alley was about 50 years in the past when this song was written. (1953)

I have a MIDI of this song which I downloaded from somewhere. I disliked the fake fiddle which has the lead, so I changed it to a clarinet sound. On days when I want something to cheer me up, I play it.

Joe, shall I send the file to you for posting? The song is copyrighted material, but apparently nobody seems to mind.

02 Mar 09 - 10:19 AM (#2579260)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique

This is part of what Wiki says about it:
"Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" is a swing-style song, with lyrics by Jimmy Arnold and music by Nat Simon. The tune is similar to and possibly based on the music for "Puttin' on the Ritz", written by Irving Berlin in 1929.
The lyrics remind the listener of the change of the name of the city Constantinople to the Turkish name Istanbul, also mentioning the fact that New York City was originally named New Amsterdam.

"Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" was originally recorded by a Canadian group called The Four Lads on August 12, 1953. This recording was released by Columbia Records as catalog number 40082. It first reached the Billboard magazine charts on October 24, 1953, and it peaked at #10. It was the group's first gold record."

I remember hearing it in French when I was a child (in the late 50's), the French title being "Istanbul, c'est Constantinople"

02 Mar 09 - 10:29 AM (#2579266)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: MartinRyan

I was about to suggest that the only thing it had in common with "Abdul.." was an Irish author - but that seems to have been a false alarm.

Regards

02 Mar 09 - 10:32 AM (#2579272)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: John on the Sunset Coast

The 4 Lads had another 'near eastern' recording, "Cleo and Me-O"
As I recall the chorus:

There's Cleo and Me-O
And a baby crocodile.
We live on the Allegheny River,
Pittsburgh's 'bout a mile.
When Cleo feels free-o
The dancing gets so wild;
You'd swear that the Allegheny River
Was the river Nile.

When Mitch Miller had a good idea he drove it into the ground.
The same Mitch Miller who wanted a Jazz singer to become Frank Sinatra, and another to sing in faux Italian accent. But Tony Bennett and Rosemary Clooney succeeded anyway.

02 Mar 09 - 10:32 AM (#2579273)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: clueless don

Like many others, I was introduced to this song through the recording by the group "They Might Be Giants".

Don

02 Mar 09 - 04:51 PM (#2579651)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Joe Offer

I posted uncorrected lyrics in the wee hours of the morning in the first post of this thread. I've now made a corrections, after listening to a recording. The lyrics should be a fairly reliable transcription, since the recording was very clear. I've always wondered, though, why Byzantium wasn't included in the song....

I notice that the first line of the bridge (Even old New York was once New Amsterdam) has a familiar tune. As kids, we used to sing "Oh the girls in France have tissue-paper pants" to this tune - anybody know the actual name of the tune?

Be sure to look at the YouTube Recording that Don linked to.

-Joe-

02 Mar 09 - 04:56 PM (#2579662)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Peace

Joe, please see the thread started by Azizi a while back entitled "Children's Street Song". It comes up there. Sorry I'm rushed at present. I'll try to get to some 'research' within a few days.

Bruce

I found a "Children's Street Songs" thread, but not from Azizi and not including "Istanbul."
-joe-

02 Mar 09 - 05:02 PM (#2579667)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Haruo

The notes don't say there's any connection between "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" and "Abdul A Bulbul Emir", but to "Al-Bar the Bubul Emir" (which I've never heard of). Did you maybe overlook that note while cleaning up the lyrics, Joe?

And Monique, how does it happen that the French version seems to mean the opposite of the English: "Istanbul, c'est Constantinople" vs. "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)". Would "Istanbul, pas Constantinople" work (my French is minimal).

Yes, leeneia, please send Joe or me or somebody the midi.

Haruo

02 Mar 09 - 05:08 PM (#2579676)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Peter T.

Now we need a St. Petersburg song.

yours,

Peter T.

02 Mar 09 - 05:09 PM (#2579677)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,leeneia

It's a good thing the song didn't mention Byzantium, or somebody would be saying it was derived from the poetry of William Butler Yeats.

I'll go see about that MIDI.

02 Mar 09 - 06:57 PM (#2579786)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique

Haruo, I suppose that it's because when they wrote the French lyrics, they just kept "Istanbul" and "Constantinople" and wrote quite different lyrics. Here they are, I found them on lyricsmania

Istanbul, Istanbul !

Istanbul c'est Constantinople
C'est à Istanbul ou Constantinople
Que je suis allé un jour pour y découvrir le grand amour
Que l'on attend toujours

Istanbul ça n'est plus l'Europe
C'est à Istanbul ou Constantinople
Que je l'ai trouvée un soir qui flânait
Au milieu de la foule d'Istanbul

Le muezzin chantait en haut d'un minaret
Et tout le long du Bosphore
Je faisais déjà des rêves d'or
A Istanbul la vie était belle
C'est à Istanbul, je me le rappelle
Que mon coeur fut pris
Par les sortilèges de l'Asie
Je l'ai suivie dans la foule
Un soir sous le beau ciel d'Istanbul
Istanbul Istanbul Istanbul Istanbul

Istanbul c'est Constantinople
C'est à Istanbul ou Constantinople
Que je me voyais déjà arrivé au paradis d'Allah
Qui vous attend là-bas

Oh Istanbul ça n'est plus l'Europe
C'est à Istanbul ou Constantinople
Que je m'approchais en me faufilant
Au milieu de la foule d'Istanbul

Je n'savais comment traduire mes sentiments
Mais en riant elle me dit :
"Comme vous, j'arrive droit de Paris !"

Oh Istanbul c'est Constantinople
C'est à Istanbul ou Constantinople
Que nous avons pris le train qui nous ramène à Paris
Loin du bruit et de la foule, c'est bon de rêver à Istanbul !

Istanbul ou Constantinople
Le bonheur est là, si bon, à sa porte,
C'est bien inutile d'aller le chercher
Je ne sais où Istanbul ou Tombouctou
L'amour il est là tout près de vous

Istanbul, Istanbul !

literal translation (I already said in other threads that I never was a poet nor was I a native English speaker)

Istanbul, Istanbul !

Istanbul is Constantinople,
It's in Istanbul or Constantinople
That I went to discover the love of my life*
The one we're always waiting for.

Istanbul is no more Europe
It's in Istanbul or Constantinople
That I found her strolling
In the middle of Istanbul crowd

The muezzin was singing from the top of a minaret
And along the Bosphorus
I was already having golden dreams.
In Istanbul, life was beautiful.
It's in Istanbul, I remember it,
That my heart was taken
By Asia's spells.
I followed her in the crowd
One evening, under Istanbul's beautiful sky
Istanbul Istanbul Istanbul Istanbul

Istanbul is Constantinople,
It's in Istanbul or Constantinople
That I was already seeing myself in Allah's paradise
That's waiting for you there.

Istanbul is no more Europe
It's in Istanbul or Constantinople
That I came near worming my way
Among Istanbul's crowd.

I didn't know how to show my feelings
But she laughed while saying
"Like you, I've come straight from Paris!"

Oh Istanbul is Constantinople
It's in Istanbul or Constantinople
That we took the train taking us back to Paris.
Far from the noise and the crowd, it's good to dream of Istanbul !

Istanbul or Constantinople
Happiness is here, so good, at your door,
It's useless to go to fetch it
I don't know where, in Istanbul or Timbuktu
Love is here, near to you.

Istanbul, Istanbul !

*To mean "the love of one's life" we say "l'amour de sa vie", but also "le grand amour" (the great love) or "l'amour avec un grand A" (Love with a capital L)

02 Mar 09 - 07:22 PM (#2579809)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Jeri

Joe, the tune is part of 'Puttin' on the Ritz'.

03 Mar 09 - 09:19 AM (#2580209)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: clueless don

Jeri,

The tune of "Istanbul was Constantinople" is similar to, and may have been derived from, the tune of "Puttin' On the Ritz", but I think Joe was asking about the tune for "Oh, the girls in France ...".

Thanks for that Fred Astaire link by the way. Great stuff!

Don

03 Mar 09 - 11:52 AM (#2580331)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Jeri

I love that video!
Yeah, I thought it might be the snake-charmer melody. I don't know where that comes from, but I think most kids (at least in the US) know it.

03 Mar 09 - 12:34 PM (#2580371)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: open mike

I first heard this song from the duo Trout Fishing in America
www.troutmusic.com.

03 Mar 09 - 04:28 PM (#2580552)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: clueless don

Regarding the tune to "Oh, the girls in France ..." (clueless don is my name, and thread creep is my game), I looked at the Children's Street Songs thread, and found mention of the song, but I found no tune information. The closest I have been able to come so far is in a thread titled "Tune Req: Need a song that matches the metre". There, Snuffy, on 21 Aug 01 - 08:59 PM, posted a fuller version of the tune in ABC notation, describing it as "... a really well-known tune that sounds sort of Turkish/Persian ...".

Here is his/her ABC, omitting the title he/she used (you can go to the thread for that):

X:1
T:?
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Em
EF|
G2F2 E2EF|GBFG E2GA|BBBc BAFG|AAAB AGEF|
G2F2 E2EF|GBFG E2GA|BBBc BAGF|E2||

If you are not familiar with ABC, copy and paste this code (starting with the "X:1" line) into the entry window at Concertina.net, where you can get the dots and play a midi version.

Don

03 Mar 09 - 05:01 PM (#2580575)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Jeri

Just did a search for snake charmer tune and got this page.

"The song was introduced to the collective consciousness of the American public over a century ago by Sol Bloom, a show business promoter who later became a U.S. Congressman. Bloom was the entertainment director of the Chicago World's Columbian Exposition of 1893, which was celebrating the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus' discovery of the New World. One of its attractions, called A Street In Cairo, included snake charmers, camel rides, the infamous dancers that later spawned the legend of Little Egypt, and other exciting things to entertain turn-of-the-century fair-goers. In his prestigious role, he made more money than the President of the United States – $1,000 a week.

In his autobiography, Bloom claimed that he improvised the melody on the piano at a press briefing in 1893 to introduce Little Egypt."

There's a lot more there, including the original lyrics to Streets of Cairo:

Streets Of Cairo or The Poor Little Country Maid (words by James Thornton)

Verse 1

I will sing you a song,
And it won't be very long,
'Bout a maiden sweet,
And she never would do wrong,
Ev'ryone said she was pretty,
She was not long in the city,
All alone, oh, what a pity,
Poor little maid.
Chorus

She never saw the streets of Cairo,
On the Midway she had never strayed,
She never saw the kutchy, kutchy,
Poor little country maid.
Verse 2

She went out one night,
Did this innocent divine,
With a nice young man,
Who invited her to dine,
Now he's sorry that he met her,
And he never will forget her,
In the future he'll know better,
Poor little maid.
Chorus

She never saw the streets of Cairo,
On the Midway she had never strayed,
She never saw the kutchy, kutchy,
Poor little country maid.
Streets of Cairo Sheet Music Cover
Verse 3

She was engaged,
As a picture for to pose,
To appear each night,
In abbreviated clothes,
All the dudes were in a flurry,
For to catch her they did hurry,
One who caught her now is sorry,
Poor little maid.
Chorus

She was much fairer far than Trilby,
Lots of more men sorry will be,
If they don't try to keep way from this
Poor little country maid.

03 Mar 09 - 08:13 PM (#2580702)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Rabbi-Sol

Hi Joe,
This song was also recorded by The Four Lads.

I have the midi-karaoke file that was created by Tom Coughran of Vista, CA.

I will e-mail it to you if you so desire.

SOL

03 Mar 09 - 11:28 PM (#2580776)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: john f weldon

I still have the Four Lads vinyl LP with this song.

04 Mar 09 - 10:58 PM (#2581533)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: robomatic

I love the simplicity of the English version, it is a winning funny song out of simple and repetitive lyrics, but it doesn't get old, at least for me.

I'm sure the French version goes down well, but it's an excellent comparison between Gallic wordiness and American brevity.

The most recent heavy play on this tune was by They Might Be Giants. There's a very cute version of: Tiny Toons - Istanbul (Not Constantinople)

05 Mar 09 - 01:53 PM (#2581914)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique

Here is a YouTube with the French version with pictures of Istanbul.

05 Mar 09 - 05:02 PM (#2582095)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: robomatic

Domo origato Monique
(Do Mo nique-nique-nique)!
La versionne francaise est tres jolie!

05 Mar 09 - 05:08 PM (#2582100)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique

Do you have an idea of what "nique, nique" means in modern French?

05 Mar 09 - 05:16 PM (#2582109)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Jeri

You learn something every day! I just used Bable Fish to translate.

05 Mar 09 - 05:41 PM (#2582131)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique

I suppose Robomatic was refering to the song the Singing Nun (Sœur Sourire) would sing in the early 60's "Dominique" that went "Dominique-nique-nique... " and was refering to St Dominic.

05 Mar 09 - 10:12 PM (#2582291)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,leeneia

If this song is as old as I've been told, then it is the earliest known appearance of 'There's a place in France..."

cute Jean Petite song

If the link doesn't work, search YouTube for 'Jean Petite qui danse.'

I learned this tune from a Spanish man at an early music workshop.

06 Mar 09 - 04:38 AM (#2582393)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Monique

Leeneia, the tune to "Jean Petit qui danse" goes back to the Middle Ages. There's an Occitan version to this song; here you'll find the lyrics, English translation, sheet music, midi, mp3... and the actual story the song originates in. The French and Occitan versions are sung to the same tune, the Spanish and Catalan versions are sung to a lightly different tune. All versions are used in a circle game taught to children at school for them to learn the parts of the body. For those who know French, Zictrad is a valuable site with lots of information about songs background.

@ Robomatic: The song "Dominique-nique-nique" back in the early 60's made some people sneer, it'd be unthinkable today. Back then, the verb was seldom used and known, now it's wide spread. It was integrated into French through the repatriated French from Algeria and Algerians in the early 60's. It comes from the Arabic "nik", itself coming from a shortened form of the French "forniquer", which meaning you can easily guess. End of French slang lesson :-)
Would you imagine an English speaking nun singing a similar song if "Corkscrews" ever existed as a first name?

06 Mar 09 - 09:24 AM (#2582553)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,leeneia

Aha! Just as I thought! The first five notes of the 'snake-charmer song' go back to the Middle Ages.

Thanks, Monique.

29 Mar 09 - 03:46 PM (#2599979)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: John on the Sunset Coast

As I was eating lunch today, I heard on a Live365 station, 'Istanbul' dueted by Bing and Ella, with the trumpet riff by Ziggy Elman. This version is apparently from a Crosby radio broadcast; I'm not sure if he/they recorded it for separate phono sales. The performance is available on some CD compilations of Bing's radio music. But, honestly, the Four Lads version is much better.

25 Jul 12 - 04:56 AM (#3381175)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: MorwenEdhelwen1

The snake-charmer song "Streets of Cairo" is said to be from an Algerian song called Kradoutja, which appeared in France in the 17th century. It might be earleir, though from what Monique said. The first five notes popped up in an 18th century French song.

25 Jul 12 - 10:04 AM (#3381277)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,leeneia

That MIDI I was promising at one time got lost. Sorry, I can't provide it any more.

13 Sep 18 - 04:51 AM (#3950086)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,gordofredus

I don't understand any of this. My dad had a 1920's version - probably the Paul Whitman version - called Constaninople c-o-n-s-t-i-n-o-p-l-e,
I wonder how the 1953 version got in here?

13 Sep 18 - 07:20 AM (#3950126)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith

Of course, the correct title of the song, in question, should have been "Istanbul( not Constantinople OR Byzantium )"

13 Sep 18 - 02:29 PM (#3950211)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: leeneia

I just listened to "Istanbul" and "Puttin on the Ritz." The first four measures are similar, then they diverge. Since the first four actually consist of the first two, repeated, the similarity doesn't last long.

They sound alike because they are both in the belly-dance minor - start on the sixth note of the major scale and then sharp the 7th note.

13 Sep 18 - 04:22 PM (#3950235)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Joe Offer

Hi, Gordofredus - the 1928 Paul Whiteman song is completely different, based on spelling it out C-o-n-s-t-a-n-t-i-n-o-p-l-e (gee, it's tedious to type it out like that).

Here's a recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8DzEoYIYb0

13 Sep 18 - 07:02 PM (#3950257)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Gordon Jackson

Frankie got to number 11 in the UK with this in 1954.

13 Sep 18 - 08:11 PM (#3950265)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Steve Shaw

When I was about eight years old, our class teacher wrote the word CONSTANTINOPLE on tbe blackboard and got us to use the letters in the word to make up as many new words of three letters or more we could think of. No plurals ending in s allowed. I couldn't believe it when I discovered that I'd been the only one in the class to get "constant." Well we were only eight!

14 Sep 18 - 03:19 AM (#3950292)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Gordon Jackson

I've just noticed I wrote that Frankie had a hit with it. I meant, of course, the late Frankie Vaughan. It's not like we were on first name terms or anything!

Steve, disappointed you didn't notice 'postcoital' as well!

14 Sep 18 - 04:05 AM (#3950298)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel

As it's not written by Paul McCartney, are we safe from complaints that it's not folk?

14 Sep 18 - 07:14 AM (#3950356)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Steve Shaw

Who said I didn't, Gordon? ;-)

14 Sep 18 - 09:44 AM (#3950408)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Gordon Jackson

Fair play to you if you did, Steve.

These days they don't teech kids nuffing.

14 Sep 18 - 09:49 AM (#3950410)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Steve Shaw

I think if I'd dug that word out, aged eight in the 1950s, Gordon, the headmaster would have had my parents in his office there and then! It was a good Catholic school too...

14 Sep 18 - 10:02 AM (#3950415)
Subject: RE: Origins: Istanbul (Not Constantinople)
From: Gordon Jackson

Would he have known it, then?