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06 May 09 - 02:11 PM (#2625624) Subject: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folkiedave My daughter who seeks these things out has drawn my attention to the following job advert. here. There is also a link to the EFDSS page here. Looks like a great opportunity to carry folk music forward when the EFDSS seems to have a new burst of energy. I wish I was forty years younger and lived in London! |
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06 May 09 - 02:37 PM (#2625638) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Sandman but would you be right for the job? |
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06 May 09 - 07:01 PM (#2625845) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folkiedave Dick - I would have been perfect for that job. My daughter too...........BUT we both love Sheffield too much to move.... |
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06 May 09 - 11:12 PM (#2625972) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Desert Dancer If you're from the U.S., The Guardian will tell you nothing... oh, well. I get the gist of it from the conversation. I hope they get a real good firecracker in there for the job. I'd love to see the image really turned around. ~ Becky in Tucson (EFDSS member) |
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06 May 09 - 11:58 PM (#2625992) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Richard Bridge Marketing Director Employer: ENGLISH FOLK DANCE & SONG SOCIETY Posted: 30 Apr 2009 Reference: MD/GUA Contact: Ms Katy Spicer Location: Greater London - North London Industry: Arts & heritage - General Qualifs: Undergraduate degree (or equivalent) Contract: Permanent Hours: Full Time Salary: £32,000 Shortlist this job Email this job to a friend Job contact details View all jobs from this employer Apply using the following method: The post of Marketing Director is a new post and a key edition to the Senior Management Team of Chief Executive, Library Director and Education Director. This is a unique opportunity for an experienced arts marketing professional to make a significant impact on the development of the activities and profile of EFDSS. You will: - have a proven ability to development and implement successful marketing strategies - experience of working with print and web based marketing - press and media experience - maximise and manage financial and staff resources - be a team player - have experience of marketing a range of art forms including dance and/or music - be interested in the folk arts and inspired by EFDSS' vision and ambitions. |
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07 May 09 - 06:01 AM (#2626109) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: GUEST,Jim Martin http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/job/855286/marketing-director/?grse=grse_1&email=jobsbyemail&lijbeid=9755051 |
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07 May 09 - 06:33 AM (#2626127) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: manitas_at_work What do they mean by undergraduate degree? Surely once you gain a degree you are a graduate? Perhaps they mean a first degree. |
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07 May 09 - 06:38 AM (#2626130) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Dave the Gnome How do they expect to attract a full-time marketing professional, in London, at director level for £32K? Unless they get someone who has little or no experience, has independant means or cannot get a job on a higher salary for some reason? DeG |
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07 May 09 - 09:36 AM (#2626215) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: wysiwyg Undergrad is the US term for a bachelor's (4-year) degree, then after that some folks get a graduate degree (Master's, PhD, etc). Undergrad degree come next right after high school (age 18 usual to end HS). As distinguished from an associate's degree (2 years usually) after HS. ~S~ |
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07 May 09 - 10:15 AM (#2626235) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Richard Bridge It would be nice if the EFDSS could confirm to UK tradition. School to 18 At university one is an undergraduate, until passing final exams Then one is a graduand until graduating. One has then obtained one's first degree. If then remaining a student at university, one is a postgraduate student, and may succeed in obtaining a postgraduate degree and/or a doctorate (which is a type of postgraduate degree) |
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07 May 09 - 12:11 PM (#2626340) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: GUEST,Derek Schofield David el Gnomo wrote ... "How do they expect to attract a full-time marketing professional, in London, at director level for £32K? Unless they get someone who has little or no experience, has independant means or cannot get a job on a higher salary for some reason?" The EFDSS is a charity, dependent on funding from the subscriptions of members (plus Cecil Sharp House external hall hirings, sales etc) ie no government funding, not even for the Library. The more members it has, the more it can spend on things like ... folk arts development and paying good salaries. If you're not a member David, see www.efdss.org and help to contribute to what you suggest.... Derek Schofield |
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07 May 09 - 12:14 PM (#2626344) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folkiedave |
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07 May 09 - 12:15 PM (#2626345) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folkiedave Sorry about that. For an erstwhile Marketing Director I just pressed the Submit button by mistake. Sorry. |
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07 May 09 - 06:39 PM (#2626666) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folkiedave But no worries - I am not applying. |
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08 May 09 - 04:43 AM (#2626932) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Alan Day I have been involved with Marketing for over thirty years and I have now retired from it,I have been thinking about the difficulties associated with this job.What would the applicant be marketing? Cecil Sharp House has very little parking, it is situated in a part of London that is only really accessible by Public Transport. It is a run down building with very little facilities. No Restaurant, poor Toilet facilities,no atmosphere a very old fashioned and miserable place to visit. Where once an invitation to Cecil's was something that filled you with excitement it is now a place, mainly poorly attended,with nowhere to even get a sandwich and a bar that is just adequate and sometimes poorly stocked. I understand that there is now a grant obtained to put some of these observations right and I agree that the management are now forward thinking and trying to move forward. Quite honestly there was no more room to move backwards. So what has CS House got to market. It has wonderful dance facilities,I have danced in many a ballroom and the dance floors are as good as you will get anywhere. It's product Folk Music has masses of appeal to Education. Schools should and maybe encouraged to spend days up there learning about, Folk music, dance, song and playing instruments. There are many musicians that would give their time free or just for expenses to help out.With more organised Folk and Dance competitions between schools on these subjects we could create more interest in Folk Music. With better advertised dances,specialist dances, such as ballroom. Keep fit sessions based on Dance. A proper reintroduction to the Folk Sessions or Sing arounds in the bar led by a known artist and advertised properly ,not just a get together by a few musicians. We then start to have a product to market. I wish the person every success with this job and to Cecil Sharp House,I for one would love to see this place a fantastic success. Al |
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08 May 09 - 05:06 AM (#2626940) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Sandman it also hosts a weekly folksong club. |
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08 May 09 - 05:54 AM (#2626955) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Richard Bridge The task is not to market C#Ho, but the EFDSS |
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08 May 09 - 07:26 AM (#2626993) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: matt milton "How do they expect to attract a full-time marketing professional, in London, at director level for £32K? Unless they get someone who has little or no experience, has independant means or cannot get a job on a higher salary for some reason?" I've seen a lot of similar jobs for similar arts-based charities offering less than that. I've reached a faintly absurd point where I'm applying for jobs that are more senior than the one I'm currently doing, but which offer less annual salary. Equally, I haven't been offered interviews for jobs with titles and descriptions that almost exactly mirror my own, which I could frankly do in my sleep. I don't think there is any rationale or logic to today's job market. All bets are off. |
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08 May 09 - 10:59 AM (#2627072) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Dave the Gnome I don't think there is any rationale or logic to today's job market. Very true, Matt. It does seem a shame that more value is placed on the people who market the banks that have caused our current economic problems than on the people who help to bring a little art to peoples lives but, c'est la vie, as they say in Salford... Maybe if they paid more at the arts based charities they may get a better market share? Or they may just loose more money:-( I am neither marketeer nor economist but surely you always get what you pay for. Or at least you should! Cheers DeG |
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08 May 09 - 11:33 AM (#2627095) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folkiedave I've seen a lot of similar jobs for similar arts-based charities offering less than that. I'll echo that and if the EFDSS was other than London I bet they'd get loads of high quality experienced applicants at that salary. They may still in London of course. I don't know the percentage usage for C# House but every time I have been it's been working hard. A lot of people rehearse there for example and I do believe that the Saturday night hop is a really good place for meeting members of the opposite sex. Not that folkies are ever interested in that sort of thing of course. But yes - the job is for the Society. And Alan - get on t'committee - they could clearly use your ideas! |
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08 May 09 - 11:48 AM (#2627107) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Sandman if they moved to Sheffield,Folkie Dave could do the job |
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08 May 09 - 11:53 AM (#2627110) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folkiedave Dick when I retired 6 years ago at the age of 60 I swore I would not go back to paid work except on my terms. Which is why I spend half the week preparing a radio programme and two hours presenting it each Friday and get paid nothing. Clearly my skills are not up to it! However, have I got a daughter for that job (were it in Sheffield!!) |
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08 May 09 - 01:52 PM (#2627202) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Howard Jones The problem facing whoever gets the job is exemplified by the pile of bumf which falls out of "English Dance & Song" (a much improved journal). It's invariably advertising events at C# House, and nowhere else. They've got a job on their hands persuading anyone who doesn't live in north London that it's the English Folk Dance and Song Society, and not Camden Town Folk Club. |
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08 May 09 - 02:25 PM (#2627228) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: BB Can't disagree with that, Howard! There are some very exciting things going on at CSH, and as a member for over 40 years, I would be delighted to be able to get to even half of them. But NW1 is a long, long way from EX34... Barbara |
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08 May 09 - 02:31 PM (#2627239) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: GUEST,Squiggle I have noticed a definite buzz around C#House itself which hasn't been present for years. The last two times I've been for a concert (the St Georges Day concert and the Jim Moray concert in February) it has been absolutely packed. Also, they seem to have developed a young crowd who volunteer to help out at the concerts, attend the dance classes and just treat it as a place to hand around. The sessions and singing in the bar after the Copper Family, Vaughan Williams and Bert Lloyd events last year were really vibrant and fearsome in quality. I don't think I'm imagining the new lease of life that seems to have entered the place. I think some of this is due to Katy Spicer, and some to Sam Lee. I don't think they'll be short of people applying for the post and I hope that they find the right person to take this buzz forward and turn it into a national, rather than regional thing. |
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08 May 09 - 02:58 PM (#2627259) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: VirginiaTam I work next door to a county council arts developemtn team. A lot of movement, staff moving on to bigger and better things. So this post is a good jumping off place. If I were only younger and healthier. |
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08 May 09 - 06:08 PM (#2627355) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: johnadams As someone who has just spent 8 years contributing as a trustee to the work of the EFDSS (2000 - 2008) I'm delighted to see the next step being taken - the appointment of a marketing director. When I joined the board the renaissance was just beginning under the guidance of Phil Wilson who put together a strategic plan which has proved to be a good direction for the Society. It's been modified along the way and not all objectives have been possible to achieve, but it's seen in the beginnings of a much improved organisation. Many more young people are getting involved and this is due to the efforts of other young people typified by Sam Lee and also more experienced and visionary people such as Derek Schofield, for whom will publicly express my admiration. (That'll be a fiver Derek!). I've managed to visit the House for a couple of recent (ish) events - the Vaughan Williams and the Bert Lloyd days - and both times the House was buzzing and full of life. More importantly, the spin offs from these events reached out into the rest of the folk community in many small ways so they weren't completely London-centric. I agree with Barbara that it is slightly annoying for us provincials to see such good things going on at the House and not have much opportunity to benefit, but first things first. If the income grows then so can the range and reach of activities. This has already started to happen in small ways. Ryburn 3 Step booked Sam Lee to attend its Spring Sing in West Yorkshire and as well as performing, he showed brilliant films from the EFDSS archives (including Cecilia Costello, Padstow May Day, Blaxhall Ship and more). Others could take advantage of this sort of small but effective partnership. The Take Six project has benefitted many people outside London and has been a good learning experience for the Society. The library supplied some of the raw material for the Vaughan Williams community projects run by the East Anglian Traditional Music Trust in Diss, Southwold and Kings Lynn. There's loads of stuff happening out there that the EFDSS has a quiet hand in enabling. Not everything works out 100% or works first time but the EFDSS is using what money it has available to develop its activities to the benefit of members and non members alike, alongside the other folk organisations, both national and regional. The Society can't do everything people it expect it to do, or be everything that people think it should be because it can only do what it can afford to do. And before people pile in with 'good advice', they've heard it all before. Words are cheap and they've got a bloody bank full of them. For a change, put some money into the equation. If you don't want to buy a membership, then just donate a bit of cash to the library. There's a Paypal donate button on the Village Music Project web site where you can do just that. It was placed there originally to support the restoration of a manuscript book but all the money required was raised in the first 3 days after it was put there. Since then a few hundred extra pounds have been donated to the library and lots of other projects have been enabled. Every pound that goes direct to the library releases a pound from the EFDSS general budget to be spent on education or publishing or promotion of the folk arts generally. There are a lot of people coming to realise that supporting such a national organisation may not bring instant gratification but will bring benefits in the long run. There are other people to support like Folk Arts England, or AFO, or your regional organisation and they are all doing a grand job. But the EFDSS is doing its bit too and it would be nice if some of you would support it in a practical way. I have. Contribute. |
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08 May 09 - 06:52 PM (#2627384) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: theleveller There's no doubt that the salary offered would normally (in London)be that expected by a junior marketing manager with a couple of years' experience. An experienced marketing director of a charity would expect a salary of six figures. I know very little of what the EFDSS does, despite having been around the folk scene for 45 years, so maybe the appointment of a good marketing director would help the society to become part of the mainstream of folk music. At the salary they are offering, I suspect that it would only attract someone who is extremely dedicated to the promotion of the EFDSS's work (a good thing)or who has very little experience in marketing (not so good). |
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08 May 09 - 07:17 PM (#2627395) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: johnadams A quick Google suggests that 50K - 80K is more typical than a six figure sum. Nevertheless, still more than the EFDSS can afford at this stage so the question is "what is better - no marketing director or the best that can be got for 32K?". Hopefully they'll find a rising star. Onwards and upwards! |
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09 May 09 - 03:05 AM (#2627552) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: matt milton "There's no doubt that the salary offered would normally (in London)be that expected by a junior marketing manager with a couple of years' experience. An experienced marketing director of a charity would expect a salary of six figures." That's not true. There are charities and there are charities. You can't simply say "a charity" like that, as if "working for a charity" had a fixed salary. I agree that the marketing director of, say, Cancer Research, or similar would expect and get a much larger salary (though not a six-figure one). For the obvious reason that cancer is of much more interest to the general public than folk music. The junior marketing staff where I work get paid around 18/19K. Someone who has come up from an arts background could feasibly have a good 7 or 8 years experience and still find that salary attractive. In today's job market, with people being laid off left right and centre, I don't think they'll struggle to find someone with a good 10 years' experience to do that job. |
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09 May 09 - 03:11 AM (#2627554) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: matt milton sorry above, when I said "that salary" in the last para above I meant a salary of 32K |
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09 May 09 - 04:03 AM (#2627563) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: theleveller I think that the figure that is as important as the salary is the size of the marketing budget itself - and what they hope to achieve for that figure. Those would certainly be the questions I would ask if I was applying for the job to se if their expectations are realistic. |
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09 May 09 - 04:18 AM (#2627565) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folkiedave I am genuinely interested in how much you think it should be. And what the figure ought to cover. And of course what you would expect to achieve for that figure. |
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09 May 09 - 04:27 AM (#2627568) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Alan Day Many visitors come to England to see and participate in our Folk Tradition. Often they ask where they should visit. For Concertina players for example The Horniman Museum offers an outstanding collection.Cecil Sharp House should be catering for this interest with daily events , music and dance demonstrations. This need not necessarily be live. It is a place we should be proud to point people to,we can create the interest, but this should form part of a serious rethink of the building. I applaud you John you have at least started the ball rolling,let us hope it continues. Al |
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09 May 09 - 05:56 AM (#2627588) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: theleveller "I am genuinely interested in how much you think it should be. And what the figure ought to cover." I really don't know enough about the EFDSS to even hazard a guess. If, as a charity, they were looking to generate revenue by the conventional means of mailing their database then an in-the-mail cost of £400-500/000 would be what I would be looking at (depending on volumes). |
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09 May 09 - 06:03 AM (#2627591) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Howard Jones "There's loads of stuff happening out there that the EFDSS has a quiet hand in enabling." I think that's the problem, it's a quiet hand and most people (myself included) simply don't know what the EFDSS is doing away from C# House. If anything, we get a distorted picture because of the emphasis put on the activities at the House. However, if organisations like EATMT, Ryburn 3 Step etc manage to get their message out, presumably without the help of marketing directors on £32k pa, why can't the EFDSS? That's not to suggest they shouldn't appoint one, it's clearly needed, simply to suggest they should already have been doing more. |
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09 May 09 - 08:15 AM (#2627643) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: johnadams I've always favoured the 'quiet' approach, where you get on with things and people will find you in their own time. It works well for Ryburn 3 Step. Having said that, there's no shortage of information available in the public domain about what the EFDSS is up to. If you are a member it's fed to you via the magazine and if you're not, it's only a mouse click or a leaflet away. The Society can't make people look at their info but it's there. The events tend to come to the fore as there are lots of opportunities to refresh the information whereas you only get to talk about the longer term work when it starts or finishes - there are not the same opportunities. With regard to the R3S (& EATMT) comparison, EFDSS is exactly parallel - leaflets, web site, emails, mail outs and get out to talk to people. The difference is possibly that R3S can't grow and EFDSS needs to. There are lots of non folk aware people out there who could benefit from EFDSS education projects and publishing, academic partnerships, etc. etc. A marketing director will need to identify and target the various groups, orchestrate the campaigns and open up new markets - not that I now have anything to do with this area of operations - I've moved on, although I'm still involved with an advisory committee and a couple of projects. |
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09 May 09 - 09:28 AM (#2627660) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Howard Jones John, I agree that there's plenty of information from EFDSS, both in the magazine and the website, but it appears to be overwhelmingly London oriented. Ryburn and EATMT are local groups, but EFDSS is supposed to be national. If it's doing more outside London, then it needs to tell us about it. Otherwise, it will continue to seem irrelevant to a lot of people. |
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09 May 09 - 09:59 AM (#2627671) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Sandman It could be argued that it is a complete waste of 32,000. The siting of C#HOUSE,means that it could easily be perceived[and clearly is by some] as a london folksong and dance club. The Marketing director has to over come this and persuade people that it is not,how will a Marketing Director overcome a Geographical location. [But NW1 is a long, long way from EX34...] It is also along way from Manchester, Newcastle and Teeside. Perhaps the marketing director should focus on its convenience for Londoners,and promote that aspect of it. Sure, what would I know I have only been a professional folk musician for 35 years,and am not an expert on marketing.http://www.dickmiles.com |
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09 May 09 - 10:24 AM (#2627679) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Borchester Echo Once upon a time the EFDSS had regional offices in Exeter, Colchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and somewhere or other in the North East. Now it hasn't. There is a long history of arguments that its sole premises should be somewhere other than in Regents Park Road which, no matter how reasonable and apparently justified, cannot even be considered because the place has been rendered unsaleable as a result its listed status. So, it is where it is but does that matter nowadays? The VWML is online and the shop is long gone so people don't just drop by (or stay all day) but just show up for special events which you can read about on the website or the mag. What should a marketing director be paid? That could, of course, depend on what (if anything) they actually achieve but if the relatively low sum of £32k were to be paid retrospectively then, obviously, no-one would even start. Nearly 40 years ago I was paid less than £20 a week. But that was then. Then, the shop was ringing with sounds from instruments and vinyl and the library crammed with musicians nicking tunes and lyrics (or it was when the then Chief Exec was out). Nowadays, well I haven't a clue what they do in office hours but surely a marketing director could get them marketing? |
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09 May 09 - 10:27 AM (#2627683) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folknacious I echo GUEST Squiggle's remarks above, and John Adams'. As for EFDSS being Londoncentric, that has never been a bad place to start a national awareness of something in media/marketing terms. Given restricted budgets and finite energies, it's possibly better placed to coalesce things and move them onwards and outwards from there than in places with smaller populations and less national media focus. Also, although I don't come from London, I do raise eyebrows at the incredible knee-jerk snobbery and antagonism always levelled (not just in Folk) at anything done there, from people in other parts of the country. People who in the meantime - Ryburn, EA, Folkworks etc OBVIOUSLY excepted - are happy to sit on their arses and carp. I left EFDSS in the late 1980s but have been increasingly thinking of rejoining lately, especially after the blinding St George's gig which I went up to CSH for. Maybe that and this thread has persuaded me it's time. |
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09 May 09 - 10:45 AM (#2627693) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: johnadams Howard. The events are London based because thats where the venue is. EFDSS doesn't run events outside London because it hasn't got a venue or a budget to do that. It would also duplicate what others are doing anyway. The national dimension of EFDSS is surely publishing (which is international as well) and partnership projects. The publishing projects are quite well advertised and seem to be attracting steady long term sales. The partnership and education projects are advertised regionally, where they are most relevant, and reported nationally by the means I identified above - leaflet, web, email, magazine, and mailout. As I said, events tend to get noticed more because they get refreshed more. The 2+ year life of the single, high level funded Take 6 project will see scores of events at the House go past during the same period, yet they will possibly impact on the same number of people. But if you mean a national awareness campaign, banging the drum about our national projects, maybe some people would be in favour of it but as I said, I prefer the quiet approach of putting energy and funds into getting on with it and recruiting long term consolidated support by amassing a portfolio of well completed projects which demonstrate long term strength and commitment. Those projects generate their own support for the society's work but probably more from the general public, children, teachers and local folk animateurs rather than the folk enthusiasts. The present council and future marketing director may see things differently of course. Dick. The House can be a local venue (same as Ryburn 3 Step have local venues) and it can be a centre as well. As a centre it needs to serve a visiting clientele (whether from abroad as suggested by Alan Day, or from the provinces for high profile events like the RVW celebration or from just down the road for a Tuesday workshop, at which point it's just their local venue). And it needs to make stuff available globally (web shop/mail order, online library catalogues, information services). I don't think that marketing these developing activities is particularly difficult - it just needs a competent person to take on the job - hence the advert. People seem to be making more of this than it actually is. The society appears to be improving bit by bit and thanks are due to those people who are continuing to make it happen. They have my support. |
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09 May 09 - 11:17 AM (#2627715) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Sandman John,GoodPoints, however to fulfil the criteria you suggest,it needs to have good parking facilities,good public transport connections,and be in area where people can feel safe, when they are waiting/or walking for public transport late at night. I have seen conflicting opinions on previous threads,about its late night suitabilty. however, I wish EFDSS and the new marketing director,every success. |
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09 May 09 - 11:50 AM (#2627732) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Borchester Echo I'm always puzzled by the rumour that C# is in a scary bit of London when it is actually in one of the poshest. Ursula Vaughan Williams used to live around the corner and Roy Guest was the actual next-door neighbour. There's a bus stop right outside for the 24-hour 274 which goes past any number of stations so there's no need to walk anywhere. If you've left your vehicle in Regent's Park free parking, it goes past theretoo. True, some people object to the 5-minute walk to Camden Town tube, most likely because this involves going down Parkway and realising that the jolly people spilling out of jollier venues have probably had a better time. You could always walk to the equidistant Chalk Farm instead. |
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09 May 09 - 03:23 PM (#2627836) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Sandman is it more dangerous than Inchigeela |
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09 May 09 - 03:38 PM (#2627840) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Richard Bridge THan where? Incidentally, I am told that it is not that easy to find a full job description on the C# site. |
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09 May 09 - 05:35 PM (#2627913) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: GUEST,RnB Leveller: Check out this Gibson....Sounds like you have a winner! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLBlCTziJYo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fuser%2FGregsGuitars&feature=player_embedded This was the only way I could get this to you, since you were wondering about the 325 in Jan. '09! Hope it was no intrusion? |
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09 May 09 - 05:57 PM (#2627931) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Alan Day I agree with you Diane it is not scary at all around Cecil Sharp House a lovely area in fact. Although I would hate to see neon lights and flashing signs,I do think the outside could do with a bit of a smarten up to at least show people what the place is.As for the inside, you go up the stairs and there is the Security Guard sitting behind a big desk. If you have never been there before there is nothing to say what is on in any part of the building,just people wandering about some with instruments some without. It is a very strange and unwelcoming place. The home however of some fantastic nights. The jive I had during our interval in the Main Hall was in one of the lower rooms and it was American Swing Night. Half an hour of the most memorable dances I have ever had. Al |
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09 May 09 - 06:02 PM (#2627936) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Sandman Iinchigeelagh, County Cork. |
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09 May 09 - 06:25 PM (#2627943) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folknacious Mornington Crescent |
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09 May 09 - 06:32 PM (#2627946) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folkiedave Incidentally, I am told that it is not that easy to find a full job description on the C# site. I agree not easy - but for "catters I provided a link in my first post. It's near the bottom of the page. |
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09 May 09 - 07:38 PM (#2627977) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Suegorgeous So the first job for the new marketing person is to sort out the website then? |
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10 May 09 - 04:21 AM (#2628142) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Richard Bridge Thank you Dave, I will point that out to a person I know. Signage outside C#Ho would be subject to planning permission AND all the restrictions normally applied to a listed building. Listing a building may reduce its market value, but thanks to the powers that that is so or the vultures would strip our land of its architectural history. |
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10 May 09 - 04:53 AM (#2628147) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folkiedave So the first job for the new marketing person is to sort out the website then? I rarely look at a website (including my own) without thinking how it could be improved. It probably applies to the EFDSS. |
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10 May 09 - 06:51 AM (#2628174) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: johnadams The EFDSS web site is being completely overhauled right now and the new one will allow staff to do daily updates of the news. There is a new web shop which went up last week and replaces the one I put into operation when I had the responsibility. The web shop has been a success over the last three or four years. Until last week every sale and delivery notification was reported to me via email and I have a full knowledge of the EFDSS customer base which extends across the globe. That knowledge will obviously fade now as others pick up the reins but I expect he new marketing director will find it a useful starting point, I can say that with a couple of exceptions, every order was turned round by the staff within 1 working day, which is what web customers expect in this day and age. I see occasional comments on here wondering what the staff 'do all day' - I can answer that - they work exceedingly hard at a mountain of routine work and still find the time to talk to people who ring in with queries about the folk scene in general (sometimes expecting the staff will all have an encyclopaedic of the entire folk scene). A new full time member of staff with good managerial experience will be yet another positive step forward for the Society, but it won't immediately solve all the problems of a hard pressed charity operating in a recession. The Society will still need volunteers in the House and in the many other supporting roles ( and where we're going to find someone to take over the work of our dear departed friend Malcolm Douglas I really don't know, but it will happen and things will get done - in their own good time). Folkopedia continues to grow slowly although the number of regular contributors is quite small and we could do with more. Now I've stepped back a bit from the EFDSS governance and am also about to retire from academia I can return to my key projects of Folkopedia, Village Music Project and the Paul Graney audio archive. Getting back to the EFDSS web site, I've seen it go through 3 major overhauls and the fourth is imminent. Most people accept that maintaining web sites is time consuming and/or costly and there's always a better one around the corner. The EFDSS site is much better than it was and guess what, there's a better one round the corner. THe EFDSS Folk Shop Folkopedia |
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10 May 09 - 07:09 AM (#2628183) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Howard Jones Folknacious, it's not a question of anti-London snobbery, its simply geography. The side of the EFDSS which gets most publicity is its events, which are all in London. As Johnny pointed out, its main activity is actually in publication, but this gets much less emphasis. My perception of the Society's activities is focussed on events which I can't get to. For that reason it doesn't seem very relevant to me. Johnny mentions the Take 6 project, which looks fantastic, but the information about this on the website is hidden away under "Education", which is not a field I'm personally interested in so its not somewhere I'd look. Something like that should be trumpeted on the home page. It needn't cost much to publicise these activities more widely. Getting support from outside the folk world is important, but it's folk enthusiasts who should be the backbone of the Society, yet I know hardly anyone who is a member. The sooner they get a marketing director in place the better. |
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10 May 09 - 07:19 AM (#2628188) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Borchester Echo On the grounds that the mag, journal, publishing, instrumental / dance tuition, several festivals and folk directory which all used to be produced inhouse when I was on the staff are now outsourced (the website seems to be a Smoothops effort) or have disappeared altogether, yes I did wonder just a bit what current staff (other than the librarians) actually did. A bit like at the BBC, really. The then Chief Exec in what was unfondly known as The Goode Old Days was quite adamant that he didn't want the staff to have anything like an encyclopedic grasp of what I (for one) thought we were there for. He wanted us to just do typing and let halls to anyone who would pay. Nevertheless, we provided a comprehensive information service to all who phoned and dropped by the library and shop. Ah, the shop. Such a loss . . . |
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10 May 09 - 08:18 AM (#2628212) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: johnadams Diane wrote: the website seems to be a Smoothops effort Que? |
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10 May 09 - 08:28 AM (#2628215) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Borchester Echo On the homepage it says "designed by Bryan Ledgard" who I have certainly seen about the place taking pics although I know not to be on the staff but who has a lot of input (though perhaps not actually employed by) those Oldham purveyors of schlock. |
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10 May 09 - 08:33 AM (#2628219) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 OOH! I could do that! :0) I'd get Show of Hands and Seth Lakeman in, fill the place up with vibrant music and vibrant beings...marketing it would be an absolute doddle! Oozles of Enthusiam bursting forth all over the place, inspiring those who've never heard of Cecil Sharpley Hoose to come racing to the door! And as for the shop, well, I could fill that up with posters of the Shropshire Bedlams (swooooon) and Fishermen's Friends (11 swooooons!) Demons and Bellowheads and all sorts of wonderful stuff...T shirts and car stickers, books and CDs, posters and roasters and things that go bump nonny noo in the middle of the night... It'd become the most popular attraction in the whole of London City... But wait... Me doesn't have a degree, nor an underdegree, not even a degree under me...nor a graduate, or a graduation, save for the graduation in colour from Beige Music to Colourful Music...a Dulux Coloured Plethora of sight and sound, spilling out of Cecile TooSharpley House and out into the bowels of London Town, lighting up the sky! Nah...best to leave it to the Moaning Minnies to sort out, then it can still be spoken of in hallowed terms and filled with concerts from 'their own' which not a great deal of people will attend.... I'll open a new Folk & Acoustic Cafe, across the road...No Degrees Allowed...where everyone can sing in whatever accent they love best. |
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10 May 09 - 08:53 AM (#2628230) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Spleen Cringe So an event like the RVW concert, with Eliza Carthy, Jackie Oates, Lisa Knapp, Jim Causley, Jon Boden, Fay Hield, Tim Van Eyken, Mary Humphreys and Anahata and so on, playing to a packed and enraptured house, is the Moaning Minnies stuffing up whoever it is you think they're stuffing up and filled with concerts from 'their own' which not a great deal of people will attend? Oh really? Ever been there, by the way? Or are you just guessing? |
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10 May 09 - 08:53 AM (#2628232) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: johnadams On the homepage it says "designed by Bryan Ledgard" who I have certainly seen about the place taking pics although I know not to be on the staff but who has a lot of input (though perhaps not actually employed by) those Oldham purveyors of schlock. Bryan Ledgard runs the company that sets the magazine, the journal and some of the books. He does the jobs he's paid to do and also some as a volunteer. He's a highly valued member of the team with excellent design skills and a proven commitment to the work of the society. As far as I know he has no influence in or over the broadcast media production company you mention and they have no connection with or influence over the society. This thread seems to be reaching the end of its useful life and I have work to do. Cheers. |
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10 May 09 - 08:57 AM (#2628234) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Borchester Echo Anyone who wants to promote an event featuring these or any other artists has only to hire one of the halls and get on with it. Such a happening would have no bearing whatsoever on the need (or otherwise) for a marketing director responsible for the future direction of the society. Though re-opening the shop might. |
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10 May 09 - 09:04 AM (#2628243) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: The Borchester Echo Has lizziecornish ever been to C#? No, of course not or she'd have been aware that the shop was shut down, nay dismantled, years ago and that there are not (fortunately) any commercial premises "across the road" that could be used as a "pay-to-play" hangout for overgrown adolescents who think the world owes them a living for playing stuff that should never be allowed across the thresholds of their bedrooms. |
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10 May 09 - 09:16 AM (#2628249) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Ah...but you see...I'd open the shop up again..and WHAT a shop it would be!! I'd also bring in acoustic music to Cecil's Joint..in FACT, that'd be a real cool name for it! Cecil's Joint... Sooo much better than the boring ol' Cecil Sharp House..Gee Whizz! I can't think why I've not thought of that before? Oh poo. Ralph Vaughan Williams, nice chappie though he probably was, is not a very inspirational name for a concert is it? I mean??? Come ON. 'THE ORGASMIC FOLK MUSMIC SHOW' - starring Show of Hands, Eliza Carthy, Seth Lakeman, Jackie Oates, Lisa Knapp, Cara Dillon, Jim Causley,(swoooon) The Demon Barbers, Jon Boden, Fay Hield, Tim Van Eyken...AND...THE OYSTERBAND....brings you music to reach the parts that even the Shropshire Bedlams can't reach!' Oh yesss....I am sooooo warming to being the new Marketing Directory Lady :0) |
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10 May 09 - 09:21 AM (#2628251) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "....and, getting back together especially for THE ORGASMIC FOLK MUSMIC SHOW we are proud to present EQUATION, the Folk Supergroup, starring....yessss..ALL those fabulous Lakeman Brothers, Cara Dillon, Kathryn Roberts and Kate Rusby! Also, a Special Appearance will be made by Martyn Joseph, just recently returned from yet another Sold Out Tour of Canada! Buy your tickets fast, because they are selling like Hot Morris Men!" ;0) |
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10 May 09 - 09:33 AM (#2628254) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: theleveller "Leveller: Check out this Gibson....Sounds like you have a winner! " Thanks for that, Guest RnB - same guirtar, same amp and the same sound. Nice isn't it? |
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10 May 09 - 09:44 AM (#2628259) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: theleveller "Me doesn't have a degree, nor an underdegree, not even a degree under me...nor a graduate," I haven't seen the ad but if they are asking for someone with a marketing degree, they are probably eliminating about 95% of the most suitable applicants. In 40 years of being associated with marketing I still hardly ever come across anyone with a marketing degree - and the ones that do are mostly still "babbies". If top marketing people do have degrees, it's usually something totally unrelated to their current position, Geography seems to be the most popular for some reason. |
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10 May 09 - 09:54 AM (#2628266) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folknacious Lizzie: answer the question. Have you ever been to an event at Cecil Sharp House? Did you go to the Young Coppers album launch, the RVW celebration, Jim Moray's concert in Feb, the St George's Day concert? If not, stop being Queen Of The Dimwit Moaners and go for a long, long swim . . . because as ever you have no f***ing idea what you are talking about! |
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10 May 09 - 10:07 AM (#2628272) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 You'd not drag me over the threshold of the place...sorry mate. Jim Moray? Nope, I won't go to a gig of his, not until Jim works out that to join in denying Freedom of Speech to people is wrong. It ain't rocket science. He's been taken over by the MM's. very sad. Sorry Jim, but I'm still fuming over that. I do however, accept apologies that are sincerely meant. Folknacious, why don't you get yourself a good dollop of humour? I doubt you'd find much of it at Cecil Sharply though..could be wrong of course. And...as for this: "...because as ever you have no f***ing idea what you are talking about!..." Wanna bet? I could write things about this music that would make *you* froth at the mouth with rage, but it'd make thousands of people froth at the mouth with eager anticipation to discover a music so beautiful. Sadly, some of those who inhabit, and er..perform at Cecil Sharply, have taken it upon themselves to ensure that I don't get to write about it in the very place that drew more people in than any other, once upon a time. So, I gave up writing about it. May I suggest you stick your little head up your little traddie arse and keep your own mouth shut? OR..you could go over to the BBC board and join in the thread I started over there about whether folk music is living or dying, the most popular thread in AGES...sadly, I can't join in, despite starting the bloody thing. But, such is what some of the inhabitants of Cecil Sharply so desire.. Thank oo so much. Yup, I know Joe..."Lizzie, you're not welcome in this thread any longer"...ad infinitum. ......and so...the music went back to being hidden. Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! |
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10 May 09 - 10:09 AM (#2628273) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Sadly, I've decided to turn this job down. |
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10 May 09 - 10:27 AM (#2628279) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) ".....and so...the music went back to being hidden." Hardly! Lots of young folk bands emerging now, and young boys and girls picking up on trad English music. And some most interesting left-field folk being created by artistic young bands captivated by traditional folk songs and folk-lore. As Folkarts England say: "There has never been a better time to get involved with folk music. There are certainly now more people on the stage, in the admin office, writing the reviews and providing back up than ever before. [...] There are more festivals with bigger audiences, more record labels, more radio stations prepared to play our music. Local & national magazines and newspapers are printing reviews and stories about us and our music, dance and song. Folk is being taken seriously. Street Theatre and Dancing in the public eye is still a first class vehicle to bring in a new audience and now when they come in, we can deliver a music that has Folk - appeal, is easy listening and is attractive. The likes of KATE RUSBY, SETH LAKEMAN, CARA DILLON, ELIZA CARTHY, BELLOWHEAD, MORRIS OFFSPRING, WHAPWEASEL, and many more are doing this and breaking boundaries all the time." |
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10 May 09 - 10:27 AM (#2628280) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Folknacious I'll take that as a "no" then. |
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10 May 09 - 10:45 AM (#2628284) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: VirginiaTam I would say from reading this thread that the shop does need to be reopened. Ideally a place for visiting musicians and dancers to provide daily surgeries / workshops should be arranged. I would like to see a wider involvement as well. Tourists don't only visit London. The EFDSS should build strong partnership links with the Tourism and Leisure Services of every county in England. There needs to be communication between Education Officer tied to those Tourism & Leisure Services. Of course the local Tourism & Leisure Services need to take a stronger interest and support the tradtional song and dance in their respctive areas, but the EFDSS rep could be the person to push this. My BA degree (English and Education), experience information/communications (web and print publications)and keen interest in trad and roots music and dance is not enough to overcome age health issues which impair my mobility. I don't think I can cope with the commute and other required travel to do the job properly. Otherwise I would jump on this job. I hope they get a candidate who will really raise the profile of not only the Society but traditional dance and song in general across the UK. |
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10 May 09 - 11:22 AM (#2628299) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 I love the vitality in your post Crow Sister...but the 'us' part worries me. The whole point of the last 5/6/7 years or so that I've been raving about this music is that it's NOT the music of a select club. There is no 'them and us', there is only 'we' and the music belongs to us ALL, regardless of accents, gypsy heritage, middle-england villages, bank balances etc...along with all the other inverted snobby ideas that surround the music as being 'ours'. It's everyone's but somehow, it became 'ours', as in 'yours', not 'mine'. How the hell that happened I've no idea, well..I do, but I'd get told off in this thread for telling you. I'll start a new thread... |
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10 May 09 - 11:33 AM (#2628307) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Spleen Cringe Clearly the 'us' in the Folkarts England peice Crow Sister quotes refers to all the people making, promoting, listening to and enjoying the music. It's nothing sinister and doesn't imply an excluded 'them'. I'm not and never have been a folkie and have no desire to become one (labels don't really become me...) but have never felt like I've been left out of someone else's party when I've listened to folk music. It's only music. |
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10 May 09 - 11:58 AM (#2628325) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Spleen Cringe Apologies for contributing to the thread drift. I hope the EFDSS finds a good candidate for the job. I work for a partnership between the NHS and a small health and social care charity and know that charities a) haven't got a lot of cash to throw around unless they're one of the biggies; b) can often attract skilled people for that kind of money; and c) should and do take a distinctive and different approach to promoting themselves and doing business than both the private and public sectors... thus making comparisons with those sectors slightly off the mark. Good luck. I wish the job was in the North West! |
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10 May 09 - 03:44 PM (#2628482) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Richard Bridge I worry about anyone who STILL thinks that "Xxxxx's Joint" is a trendy name. |
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10 May 09 - 04:02 PM (#2628496) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Richard Bridge Hi Dave, your link into the EFDSS job description has gone tits up can you revive please? |
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16 May 09 - 05:54 AM (#2633173) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Dave the Gnome Anyone who believes that marketing an event comprises of booking the best names and bubbling over with enthusiasm deserves to be given the job. If only to bring them back to earth... DeG |
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16 May 09 - 07:19 AM (#2633215) Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going. From: Suegorgeous Just to add - my comment was not a criticism of the website (I haven't used it enough to know), but a kneejerk response to what Richard said about it being hard to find the job description. That kind of thing is the test of a good website though. Sue |