BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough

11 May 09 - 04:41 AM (#2628778)
Subject: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Stu

What interesting times we live in.

It seems that pigeons are finally coming home to roost at Westminster as we realise why MP's tried so hard to exclude their finances from being revealed by the Freedom of Information act, a battle they lost back in January despite dragging the matter through the courts and trying to change the law itself. Methinks the Members do protest too much? Now we know why.

These political porkers have been stuffing their hodges for a long time now, so what should we do? My own MP simply ignores my emails on the subject but I'm going to make sure everyone turning up on my doorstep for the European and Local elections gets the opportunity to discuss their expenses.

Any suggestions?

---

11 May 09 - 05:11 AM (#2628797)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: VirginiaTam

Instead of sending only emails (they often do not check them), send registered letter and indicate in the letter that you have sent copy to local newspapers which will be notified if you do not receive a reply within specified time.

---

11 May 09 - 05:49 AM (#2628825)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,chris

I think the main problem for me is that they all 'blame' the system. What happened to morality- just because they can rip off the system doesn't mean that they should. All this talk of 'within the rules' is just so much bullsh*it these are supposed to be 'respectable' citizens -our leaders!!!!!!!!! How on earth can they expect everyone else to be 'upright and law abiding' with these examples before us. So as well as having 'greedy bankers' we now see that we have 'greedy politicians' the trough is not going to be big enough.
very disillusioned
chris

---

11 May 09 - 06:01 AM (#2628836)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Lizzie Cornish 1

Sack them, Bring back the Stocks, strap 'em in and let the people show them exactly what they think of them.

Show of Hands song from many years back, is still so fitting for today...

"There are Cutthroats Crooks and Conmen running this jail
Is there anything left in England that's not for sale?" (taken from 'Cutthroats Crooks and Conmen' by Steve Knightley)

And of course, taken from Steve's 'Roots'

"We've lost more than we'll ever know round the rocky shores of England"

Oh God, haven't we *just*!!

Bring in the real Queen of Hearts...."Off with their heads!"

---

11 May 09 - 06:18 AM (#2628846)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Stu

"Instead of sending only emails (they often do not check them), send registered letter and indicate in the letter that you have sent copy to local newspapers which will be notified if you do not receive a reply within specified time."

This is a good suggestion, except I've been writing to this chap for over 25 years and he simply ignores anything that he doesn't want to answer. Believe me - I've tried. He won't discuss any matter that questions his integrity (which is dubious), his personal beliefs (such as voting for capital punishment whilst claiming to be a good Christian), or any matter pertaining to the fact his wife tells racist jokes and he doesn't believe in climate change etc etc. Suffice to say as soon as I've had a look through his expenses when they are published I shall try again.

The local newspaper meanwhile, is so far up his arse the editor could brush the guy's teeth from the inside, so no recourse there (it will publish the occasional letter of dissent but appears to retain an editorial policy of sucking up to the incumbent Member).

But Chris does put his finger on the crux of the matter. All this might have been within the rules but to most people is of doubtful morality; there's claiming for expenses and there's taking the piss.

One thing that bothers me is the complete lack of remorse shown by all the little piggies involved. Ed Miliband, the chubby permanently bewildered-looking brother of David and Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Fudging was on the Andrew Marr show yesterday and simply trotted out the same old hackneyed lines despite Marr's best attempts to get the poltroon to show an ounce of remorse.

They still don't get it.

---

11 May 09 - 06:20 AM (#2628848)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: greg stephens

So, John Prescott gets paid money by his employers, and he uses it to buy toilet seats, or what he he needs/wants. Pretty much what happens to everyone down our street. Can't gather much of a froth of indignation about it, myself. Of course, if there is actual corruption or fiddling, deal with it in the proper way. Sack them.

---

11 May 09 - 06:37 AM (#2628858)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Van

Greg people down your street buy those things out of their earnings. The current problem is that John and his pals were paid to have a comfortable shit in addition to their salaries. Not an expense most employers would pay for and not one that would be allowed by HMRC.

---

11 May 09 - 06:39 AM (#2628859)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Bryn Pugh

What did he need two bog seats for, unless he's got two arseholes ?

Just think - if it hadn't been for Jacqui Smith's husband getting rumbled for the claim for wanking movies, we'd all still be in blissful ignorance.

Just because you can don't mean that you should.

"What I did is within the rules".

So, that's all right then ?

---

11 May 09 - 06:57 AM (#2628870)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Stu

"Just think - if it hadn't been for Jacqui Smith's husband getting rumbled for the claim for wanking movies, we'd all still be in blissful ignorance."

Not really, as since January MP's have known their last four years of expense receipts were going to be made public (and they put in a fair bit of energy trying to stop this happening); they knew full well they'd been rumbled and a shitstorm was on the way and must have been dreading it.

The revelations in the Torygraph are just the tip of the iceberg. If your MP isn't in the Cabinet or a Shadow Minister then you're going to have to wait to see until around July but I think we can be fairly sure one or two will loose their seats, although this is of course a cross-party problem from the most right-wing Tory toff to Sinn Fein refuseniks and all inbetween.

I mean, why should we pay for dog food and horse-shit?

---

11 May 09 - 07:10 AM (#2628875)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: VirginiaTam

I still don't understand why Lord Hanningfield in Essex needs a London apartment. He lives in mid Essex for Chrissake.

---

11 May 09 - 08:34 AM (#2628933)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work

and there's the MP who claimed £4000 for a new boiler because the old one made the water too hot!!!

---

11 May 09 - 09:21 AM (#2628958)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Stu

From the Torygraph web site:

Michael Martin: Speaker spent £1,400 on chauffeurs to his local job centre and Celtic Park

Margaret Moran: Second home 'flip' paid £22,500

Barry Gardiner: £198,500 profit from a flat renovated with MPs' expenses

Douglas Alexander spent more than £30,000 doing up his constituency home – which then suffered damage in a house fire.

Vera Baird claimed the cost of Christmas tree decorations

Greg Barker made a £320,000 profit selling a flat the taxpayer had helped pay for

Margaret Beckett made a£600 claim for hanging baskets and pot plants

Tony Blair re-mortgaged his constituency home and claimed almost a third of the interest around the time he was buying another property in London

Hazel Blears claimed for three different properties in a year

Ben Bradshaw used his allowance to pay the mortgage interest on a flat he owned jointly with his boyfriend

Kevin Brennan had a £450 television delivered to his family home in Cardiff even though he reclaimed the money back on his London second home allowance

Gordon Brown's house swap let the PM claim thousands

Andy Burnham had an eight-month battle with the fees office after making a single expenses claim for more than £16,500

Stephen Byers claimed more than £125,000 for repairs and maintenance at a London flat owned outright by his partner, where he lives rent-free

David Cameron limited his claims to mortgage interest payments and utility bills

Ken Clarke had to be reminded frequently to submit receipts with his expenses

Alistair Darling's stamp duty was paid by the public

Pat Doherty, Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Michelle Gildernew and Conor Murphy claimed more than £500,000 over five years even though the Sinn Fein MPs refuse to attend Parliament

Alan Duncan spent thousands from his allowance on gardening, including repairs to his lawnmower

Caroline Flint claimed £14,000 for fees for new flat

Barbara Follett used £25,000 of taxpayers' money to pay for private security patrols at her home


Cheryl Gillan bought dog food using her allowance but agreed to pay it back after being contacted by the Telegraph

Michael Gove spent thousands on his London home before "flipping" his Commons allowance to another address

Chris Grayling claimed for a London flat even though his constituency home is only 17 miles from the House of Commons

John Gummer's gardening, including the removal of moles from his lawn, cost the taxpayer £9,000

Nick Herbert charged taxpayers more than £10,000 for stamp duty and fees when he and his partner bought a home together in his constituency

Geoff Hoon established a property empire worth £1.7 million after claiming taxpayer-funded expenses for at least two properties

Phil Hope spent more than £10,000 in one year refurbishing a small London flat

Kelvin Hopkins claims just a fraction of the available second-home allowance by taking the train to Westminster from his home town

Andrew Lansley spent more than £4,000 of taxpayers' money renovating his country home months before he sold it

Oliver Letwin repaired a pipe beneath his tennis court using taxpayers' money

Lord Mandelson faces questions over the timing of his house claim

Michael Martin used taxpayers' money to pay for chauffeur-driven cars to his local job centre and Celtic's football ground

Francis Maude claimed almost £35,000 in two years for mortgage interest payments on a London flat when he owned a house just a few hundred yards away

David Miliband's spending was queried by his gardener

Margaret Moran switched the address of her second home, allowing her to claim £22,500 to fix a dry rot problem

George Osborne was rebuked by the Commons authorities for using public money to fund his "political" website

Conor Murphy, Martin McGuinness, Michelle Gildernew, Pat Doherty and Gerry Adams claimed more than £500,000 over five years even though the Sinn Fein MPs refuse to attend Parliament

Paul Murphy had a new plumbing system installed at taxpayers' expense because the water in the old one was "too hot"

John Prescott claimed for two lavatory seats in two years

John Reid used his allowance to pay for slotted spoons, an ironing board and a glittery loo seat

Alex Salmond claimed £400 per month for food when the Commons was not even sitting

Jack Straw only paid half the amount of council tax that he claimed on his parliamentary allowances over four years but later rectified the over-claim

Kitty Ussher ansked the Commons authorities to fund extensive refurbishment of her Victorian family home

Keith Vaz claimed £75,500 for a second flat near Parliament even though he already lived just 12 miles from Westminster

Theresa Villiers claimed almost £16,000 in stamp duty and professional fees on expenses when she bought a London flat, even though she already had a house in the capital

Shaun Woodward received £100,000 to help pay mortgage

David Willetts, the Conservatives' choice for skills minister, needed help changing light bulbs

Phil Woolas submitted receipts including comics, nappies and women's clothing as part of his claims for food

Iain Wright and Tom Watson spent £100,000 of taxpayers' money on the London flat they once shared

---

11 May 09 - 01:51 PM (#2629126)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: skarpi

poor mr brown .............

---

11 May 09 - 04:04 PM (#2629212)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Fenton

What they did was so wrong. How does it differ from a couple who decide to have three or four kids, not work, drink lager all day,live in a nice house which the government forks out the rent for and claims for everything that's going ?

---

11 May 09 - 04:57 PM (#2629256)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Peter K (Fionn)

The rules that Westminster MPs are so quick to say they stayed within are of course rules that they themselves devised, and at a time when they expected their claims to remain hidden.

Having said that, I am not at all interested in trivia such as loo seats. I should think quite a few of us have fiddled an expenses claim to that extent somewhere along the line. The overall cap was in any case £24k a year. Even with that amount added directly to their pay packets, it would not put them on wildly exhorbitant packages against current norms. Certainly it's peanuts when set against, say, bonuses in the financial sector. It wasn't a smart idea, but the expenses system was seen as a backdoor way of ensuring an appropriate level of remuneration at a time when MPs' official pay was being pegged.

The serious issue here is the exploitation of the system for capital gains. For instance Sugarfoot Jack's list accuses Hazel Blears only of claiming for three properties in a year, which in itself would not be so extraordinary. (There is no suggestion that she owned all three at one time or exceeded the £24k ceiling.) Her real crime - and if it isn't a crime, it should be - was that she avoided the 40 per cent tax she should have paid on a significant capital gain. She did that by making one of her properties her secondary home for expenses purposes and making the same property her primary home for tax-avoidance purposes.

Others used expense claims to fund property transactions that earned them handsome profits. Capital gains such as these have in some cases been enormous and are outside the £24k cap. With any luck a few MPs at least will have caught a cold in the weakening property market.

---

11 May 09 - 05:12 PM (#2629267)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: McGrath of Harlow

How does it differ from a couple who decide to have three or four kids, not work, drink lager all day,live in a nice house which the government forks out the rent for and claims for everything that's going ?

For one thing, even if that stereotype held water (which it doesn't), bent MPs would have ripped us all off for far far more, one way or another.

But I think it's true enough to say that it's not a matter of MPs being any more liable to cheat and steal than other people. They are a cross section of the populus in this way at least - there is always going to be a pretty sizeable proportion of people in any crowd who will take everything they can lay their hands on, if they think they can get away with it. And they did think they could get away with it.

To have national media journalists come across as if they all had clean hands in this respect is a real laugh.

---

11 May 09 - 06:50 PM (#2629348)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Fenton

McGrath of Harlow, time to open the window and look outside mate, it en't no stereotype, there are three estates close to me in Manchester and NO ONE works in them. Mobility cars are being used as taxi's ! The local paper highlighted it recently. Please don't dismiss it as guff, it's widespread, maybe not on your doorstep.

---

11 May 09 - 07:13 PM (#2629362)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

Fenton, just do the arithmetic, if you can count.

---

11 May 09 - 07:27 PM (#2629369)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

Hey Fenton. When the government forks out the rent for the stereotypical groups you have described then it's OUR money, yours included unless you avoid paying any form of taxation. The government only has OUR money to play with or build trident with etc. When MP's who are already getting a good screw, plus perks, second jobs,travel expenses etc and THEN seriously abuse the expense system as they have been doing for years then it's OUR money they are doing it with. Just read the list and see how much some of these bastards have got away with over the years of OUR money,now theirs and compare it with how much your average stereotypical couple get in housing benefit, unemployment and other forms of support. I've yet to find an estate even in Manchester, Mosside, Salford or anywhere where no one works. You've been watching too much Shameless !! Even the estate they film that on has plenty of people in work. But that's beside the point. MP's are elected by us in good faith, hoping that they will do whatever they can to improve the lot of the electorate. They should know better because they are in a priveleged position, they should act better because they are in a priveleged position and make the rules that bind the rest of us. They should act better because they are so quick to deride the rest of us. Peter K is right, as is often the case. You tell me which layabout, non working, "sponger" manages to make thousands of pounds out of the system, cos I'd like to shake his hand. By the way, most of "them", the unwaged do not live in nice houses or nice areas. Their housing is invariably poor, the estates usually run down and they have poor skill levels, low motivation and often poor self image making them vunerable to illness, shortened life and poor lifestyle choices.(It wasn't so long ago that the people of Salford had the shortest life span in Britain) UNLIKE MP's who seem to have two, three or four houses in the best places, have a high opinion of themselves and an even better chance of screwing the system. WITH OUR MONEY.

---

11 May 09 - 07:40 PM (#2629378)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Fenton

Clearly two red flag wavers !

---

11 May 09 - 10:24 PM (#2629537)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

Fenton, I don't live "near" some sink estates. I live in Lower Stoke, locally referred to as "Lower Coke". The other night the karaoke operator was calling the next singer - a girl called Charlotte. "Charlie, Charlie, I'm looking for Charlie". Cue wit at the bar "So's every other cunt in Lower Coke".

The living is not good, for alkies on the dole.

---

12 May 09 - 04:50 AM (#2629664)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

Which two? Me? Richard Bridge, McGrarth or Peter K? Because I would be proud to associated with people who have care and compassion, who don't always put themselves first and think of the lot of their fellow mankind. Because no matter what, there is only one human species and one (at the moment as far as we can see for the predictable future) planet. Once we get greed and exploitation out of the way, then we may really make progress as a species. Much of the present policy and social decline started under a different colour flag than red ! Whilst it's true that the petty larceny and corruption of the town hall clerk, the trade union leader and shop steward has in the past been less than ideal, you've got to look to the right wing to see how it's been done big time for years and years, decades and centuries. They, the rich and powerful have set the table for the rest of us to follow with big time insider dealing, tax evasion, offshore accounts etc.

---

12 May 09 - 04:59 AM (#2629678)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Bryn Pugh

As I understand it, the basic screw for the bog-standard MP is £64 grand a year. If they can claim for board and lodging, housing, food, drink, dog food, bath plugs, Tampax and wanking films (sorry about his juxtaposition !) swimming pools, housekeeper's wages, thatched rooves, packets of sweeties, horse shit (that should come free IYAM)

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THE 64 GRAND GO ON ?

---

12 May 09 - 05:56 AM (#2629696)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: bubblyrat

If this is what is going on at Westminster,how much worse must it be in Brussels ?? Not as if England has any representation there,as there are no English MEPs : Scottish MEPs, yes,Welsh represntatives,naturally,Northern Irish MEPs,probably (as far as I know),but no English MEPs,as Europe does not recognise England as country in its own right ---I wonder how many Americans realise that England does not officially exist ?? My point being that,since all the other politicians in Europe have their noses deep in the trough of European Parliament corruption,the English,being denied this relief,probably feel justified in indulging in a few fiddles of their own.Of course,this does not justify the disgraceful behaviour of the other "nationalities" represented at Westminster,especially the Scottish,who have a disproportionate ( and illegal) number of MPs installed there ;however,it would have been nice to think that the English "Honourable Members" could at least have set a decent example------which they patently have NOT !!

---

12 May 09 - 06:22 AM (#2629704)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: The Barden of England

Guest FENTON - once again another guest who is afraid to own up to who he/she is. And of course then accuses other people of being red flag wavers - why am I not surprised. Where's your proof Guest FENTON?
I'll tell you something. I was made redundant on 2nd February this year with no payout and no warning - I was an agency worker who had been at a well known Telecoms company for over 14 years. I am at present getting £64 per week Job Seekers Allowance AND THAT IS IT!!! With a mortgage to pay, food to buy and insurances to keep going how the HELL can I afford all the lager you spout off about. You are an IDIOT!! Believe what your right wing cronies would have you to believe - I know what the truth really is. And what's more I don't hide behind a Guest sign in.
John Barden

---

12 May 09 - 09:59 AM (#2629858)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

Take a pill, rat. It is wholy false to say that England does not officially exist. Try reading some constitutional law.

JB. Well said. But look on the bright side, I'm sure that Fenton will advise you to have a fresh brood of children, so you can claim for them, and maybe he will supply the nubiles for the purpose. Have you however taken advice on the acquired rights directive? If you were with the same agency for the same user of your services for that long you may have entitlements. May I refer you to a barrister friedd of mine in Maidstone who may help?

---

12 May 09 - 10:13 AM (#2629873)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Peter K (Fionn)

It's a bit tangential, but I assume that bubblyrat was making the point (not sure why) that England is not recognised by the international community and has no specific status within the UK. If so, he was right.

---

12 May 09 - 02:25 PM (#2630092)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Dave the Gnome

So, what is the big surprise? These are Women who seriously believe that they can run other peoples lives; Men who believe that spending money on war is preferable to spending it on the poor; People who really believe that they know better than everyone else. Yet we all act like it is news that they cannot understand basic morality? Come on. Get a grip. These are certifiable lunatics that we are dealing with and we have put them in charge.

Anarchy - The true alternative!

DeG

---

12 May 09 - 03:11 PM (#2630145)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Nigel Parsons

For the musical view on this I've posted UK Politics 101
Not quite a song challenge, but feel free to add ...

---

12 May 09 - 04:44 PM (#2630233)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

Err - no, Peter.

---

12 May 09 - 04:55 PM (#2630247)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Terry McDonald

Err, no Richard. Bubblyrat's point is valid - the EU had the United Kingdom divided up (like every other member state) into 'regions.' Three our ours are called Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The rest are called by historic and romantic names such as 'South East' and 'North West.'

You can play the 'there is English law, therefore there is an England' card as much as you like, but as far as international 'inter-governmental' bodies are concerned there is no 'England.'

---

12 May 09 - 04:56 PM (#2630250)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Terry McDonald

Sod it! 'had' should read 'has.'

---

12 May 09 - 09:21 PM (#2630441)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

None of that validates the statement "England is not recognised by the international community and has no specific status within the UK"

---

13 May 09 - 03:17 AM (#2630565)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,The Barden of England sans cookie

Oooer - I do know that the money's almost worthless, but does that mean that all those pieces of paper with 'The Bank of England' printed on them don't have a country to belong to, nor poor old St. George, nor the cricket and football teams?
John Barden

---

13 May 09 - 03:20 AM (#2630566)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Terry McDonald

OK, give me an example of where 'the international community' (by which I mean organisations made up of the governments of nation states)recognises the existence of 'a place called England.' (Great title for a song, though.......)

---

13 May 09 - 03:44 AM (#2630584)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Stu

Thread drift?

---

13 May 09 - 03:55 AM (#2630593)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: The Barden of England

Do Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have embassies in the United States of America I wonder?
John Barden

---

13 May 09 - 04:58 AM (#2630620)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

if England actually existed..........................??
Or does it?

---

13 May 09 - 07:52 AM (#2630702)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Mr Happy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPs%27_expenses_row

---

13 May 09 - 08:47 AM (#2630757)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

"None of that validates the statement "England is not recognised by the international community and has no specific status within the UK"


There is some validity in the assertion that England, as a sovereign state, does NOT exist.

We have a Scottish representative of a Scottish constituency as our prime minister, and, when we ask why he is not doing his thing in his own country (and I HAVE asked my MP for an explanation), we are told that Westminster is the seat of the United Kingdom parliament.

On enquiring as to the whereabouts of the ENGLISH parliament, I was told "It's the same thing".

IT'S NOT!!

There is NO parliamentary body which looks after the sole interests of the English People

If there is a conflict of opinion which gives advantages to other regions (Free prescriptions in Wales; Free University tuition in Scotland), England loses out.

The Welsh Assembly looks after the Welsh.
Stormont takes care of the Northern Irish.
The Scottish parliament administers Scottish affairs.
Westminster gives away the sovereignty of the United Kingdom to Brussels, while at the same time stealing the taxpayer blind.

But WHO gives a flying F**K about the English.

NOBODY!!

Don T.

---

13 May 09 - 10:48 AM (#2630868)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Peter K (Fionn)

Sorry about the thread drift but Richard is mistaken. He knows I can't prove a negative but if he has evidence that invalidates my point perhaps he would share it or PM me. I'm interested.

---

14 May 09 - 02:43 AM (#2631363)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: cobra

"But WHO gives a flying F**K about the English.

NOBODY!!"

Correct! A gold star for that man.

---

14 May 09 - 05:04 AM (#2631437)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Alex

Well said cobra. They have proven to be rotten to the core yet again.

---

14 May 09 - 06:55 AM (#2631490)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Stu

"Well said cobra. They have proven to be rotten to the core yet again."

Well, it's not just English MPs with their noses in the trough you useless tosser.

---

14 May 09 - 08:31 AM (#2631561)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

What's pissing me off right royally is the way those grabbing, avaricious bastards are now 'apologising' for claiming these huge amounts 'by mistake', and announcing that 'as soon as they realised their 'mistake' they offered to pay the money back'.

They're a shower of lying bastards. What sort of dozy twat claims £16k 'by mistake' for interest on a mortgage he's already paid off? I'll tell you - a crooked fraudster, a con-man, a thief.

This lot are crooks, rogues and thieves. If a checkout girl at Tesco took a fiver out of the till, it would be classed as Gross Misconduct and she would be fired. Why aren't those deceitful, dishonest, lying bastards suffering the same fate?

And why aren't they being prosecuted? A shoplifter can't wriggle out of prosecution by handing back the goods he's stolen, why should it be any different for those shits in Westminster?

The world's going f***ing mad.

---

14 May 09 - 11:28 AM (#2631707)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Rapparee

My view from the left side of the pond is simple: Why in the world should this surprise anyone anywhere?

---

14 May 09 - 02:48 PM (#2631891)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

I see guest Fenton has gone exceeding quiet especially now that the tory's are getting just as big (if not bigger when it all comes out) pasting.Probably hiding in some dark corner counting ill gotten gains. I saw that smarmy bastard from the Scottish Lib dems, Tavish Scott on TV tonight. I think he thinks he's getting away with it ! And I wonder if the SMP's feel the grip tightening on their collars?

It's yet to come out big time but smaller parties like the BNP, Plaid,Sinn Fein, Democratic Unionist Party for example will also have their fears and "mistakes" I bet.

Those MP's who made "mistakes", should have their DNA taken in case they are ever given any expense claim forms again!(personally I'd like to see them in the stocks so we can have our say about them and to them, then sacked) They can not say that they could not see the morality of their claims even if they felt they were legitimate, especially as they lay so many unjust and unessesary burdens upon the population. Claiming for a mars bar, how petty, and of course making hundreds of thousands from the taxpayer by buying, selling and flipping at the other extreme. They will of course get away with it and we will of course continue to pay.They are, as I've felt for a long time corrupt

The problem is, who to vote for now? Do you stick to the politician? The party? Who is the alternative?

---

14 May 09 - 05:01 PM (#2631982)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: cobra

"So what's that..........3-1 to the labour scum? "

LOLSER!
And still they look to score cheap (geddit!) party political points. FFS wise up will ya Bonzo DooDa. There is no mileage in trying to analyse this corruption on a party political basis. However, if you insist, I will certainly be dragging up the Tory sex scandals - remember them? Gay, hetero, orgy, brown envelopes in Victoria station. Remember them? Not to mention the odious Markie Thatcher. Criminal son of a criminal mother. Nepotism rules innit.

Oh and then we have Portillo, Aitken, Archer et al. Care to revise your scorecard? Best if you let it go, I am thinking. But, 'appen you want to, why not total the costs on a party basis. I will see your washing macj=hine and raise you a underground heated tennis court repair. Or, for that matter, tampax and garden furniture for a new set of curtains. G'wan, you know you wanna.

Have a nice day matey.

---

14 May 09 - 05:43 PM (#2632006)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

BBC news;Lists 31 labour. 26 Tory.6 Lib dems.5 Sinn Fein. 2 SNP. There will be others.

Bonzo3legs can't count !! And if you think a thieving crook of a tory is a better class of scum than a thieving crook of a labour MP scum then you have a social problem with the inability to distinguish right from wrong.

Andrew Mackay;"The details show that Mr MacKay and his wife, fellow Conservative MP Julie Kirkbride, have effectively been claiming the second home allowance for mortgage interest payments on two properties - one in London and one in the Midlands. Mr MacKay claimed more than £1,000 a month for interest payments on a joint mortgage for their London home while Ms Kirkbride claimed £900 for mortgage interest on her constituency home in Bromsgrove. The arrangements suggested neither had a first home. Parliamentary data show the couple have claimed 98% of the money available to them via the second homes allowance since 2004." Two for the price of one !!

Bonzo3legs try this for size before you start trying to distort figures.This in simple terms is how the house is made up. There will be more Labour MP's than Tory because there are MORE labour MP's than tory...Even you with your inability to count will understand this.

State of the parties at 21 November 2008

Labour
350


Conservative
193


Liberal Democrat
63


Scottish National Party/Plaid Cymru
10
SNP 7/PC 3

Democratic Unionist
9


Sinn Fein
5
Have not taken their seats and cannot vote

Social Democratic & Labour Party
3


Independent
5


Independent Conservative
1


Independent Labour
1


Ulster Unionist
1


Respect
1


Speaker & 3 Deputies 4 Do not normally vote

Total no. of seats
646

In simple terms...there are only 193 Tories able to claim and 350 Labour who can claim. If you look at the ratio of Tories to labour of MP's listed on the site you will see that proportionatly MORE tories than labour have been listed. QED?

for a full list of who spends what try this;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8044207.stm

---

14 May 09 - 06:12 PM (#2632026)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

Question time tonight is great fun (or disgusting) Watching the MP's trying to wriggle out of it, eating shit. Margaret Beckett looking down her nose, Theresa May creeping like a slug and Ming Cambell ashamed. "I'm sorry it's all a mistake is not an answer !!!" We need a collective removal of every MP guilty and proven of being on the take. They should be on the dole.

---

14 May 09 - 06:24 PM (#2632041)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

By the way, the second homes allowance etc was started up by the tories 1983 !! They helped build the trough and probably got their noses in it first !! Well done Maggie!!

---

14 May 09 - 07:56 PM (#2632090)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: McGrath of Harlow

The business of Sinn Fein members not attending Parliament is a separate issue - they were elected on the basis of a firm commitment not to attend, and wouldn't have been elected if they hadn't made that commitment.

They'd presumably argue that the expenses claimed by them were to enable them, to carry out duties on behalf of their constituents, both in Ireland and in other places - that doesn't mean that there might or might not be grounds to question the validity of the expenses, as with all MPs, but the fact of their not sitting in the House of Commons is not in itself a reason to assume the expenses were not valid.

---

14 May 09 - 08:22 PM (#2632109)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Fenton

No Eric, the BNP will have nothing to fear.

---

15 May 09 - 03:12 AM (#2632289)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

'Mistakes' my fuckin' arse. It's FRAUD and THEFT (and yes, I am fuckin' shouting). So those pieces of shit compound their criminality by lying through their teeth about 'mistakes' and how they 'paid the money back as soon as they realised their mistake'. The truth is that they paid the money back when they realised their greed, deceit and criminal activity had been, or were about to be, rumbled.

Isn't it amazing how these 'mistakes' are always made by them in their own favour? If they don't claim, they're Jolly Fine Chaps, if they make fraudulent claims they try to pretend that they're still Jolly Fine Chaps who just 'made a mistake'.

I'll say it again, they're theiving, crimal shits.

They'll try to persuade us there are fairies at the bottom of the garden next, or that the moon's made of cream cheese.

'Mistakes' my fuckin' arse.

---

15 May 09 - 03:14 AM (#2632290)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

Thieving criminal shits.
Dyslexic Fingers Rule KO.

---

15 May 09 - 03:49 AM (#2632300)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Jean

Last year my daughter collected a NHS prescription for me at a local chemist. She was unaware I paid for my scripts (yes there are still a few of us that have to pay). She signed the back of it and received my pills. Three weeks later I received a letter threatening court action if I didn't repay the cost of the prescription. I explained what happened and sent payment. A week later I got another letter telling me off yet again.

The letter said "We treat this as FRAUD and THEFT ". How many MP's will receive such letters ?

I will not be voting in the June European election, screw them.

---

15 May 09 - 04:24 AM (#2632307)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

The creation of some of the allowances had a legitimate purpose, and teh use of them for that purpose is right. For example an MP would be reduced in the work done for constituents without an office and staff.

I suspect the second housing allowance was another Thatcher gerrymander - to assist the backwoodsmen to attend when every seat in London was red. Yet I think it has merit in principle. MPs should live in their constituencies in order better to represent them, yet they also need to be near Westminster when parliament is sitting.

Plainly though, to the common man, it is the central London home that is the second home, and that should be so for all purposes. Indeed maybe an approprate allowance for that purpose should be limited to rent.

Help with maintaining the moat on the ancestral pile, or building up a property empire, or keeping one's expensive daughter is a different kettle of fish.

---

15 May 09 - 05:31 AM (#2632333)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Jean

And many a young lady (or boy) knows what the inside of these London flats look like !

Sooner rather than later, charges for "services" will appear on someones credit card bill.

---

15 May 09 - 05:42 AM (#2632338)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Spleen Cringe

There is no reason why an MPs' equivalent of student hall of residence can't be provided for those representing constituencies away from London. MPs should live in the constituencies they represent - not nominally but truly. No-one needs two homes and anyone who thinks they do should fund them themselves.

No-one forces you to be a politician. If you choose that route in life you have an absolute responsibility to have the utmost integrity, especially when spending public money. Some of their excuses for scamming and skimming have been beyond pathetic.

Anyway, better go and finish cleaning the moat...

---

15 May 09 - 06:15 AM (#2632352)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

The BNP have nothing to fear because they don't have a seat in parliament (AND HOPEFULLY NEVER WILL)

---

15 May 09 - 06:22 AM (#2632354)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

Sinn Fien
Claim: The Sunday Telegraph suggested five Sinn Fein MPs had claimed a total of almost £500,000 in second home expenses by renting three London properties from the same family "at above the market norm". Both party president Gerry Adams and Northern Ireland Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness claimed £3,600 per month to rent a shared two-bedroom flat in north London. This was despite the fact the MPs refuse to take up their Commons seats.

Response: Party President Gerry Adams insisted that "no representative of Sinn Fein draws down expenses for self gain". He added: "It's entirely legitimate that we should have rented accommodation in London because we go there to do business on behalf of our constituents and will continue to do that until we have an all Ireland parliament on this island." But he accused other parties of "downright corruption" and called for reform of the system. A Sinn Fein spokesman added that the rent included parking, bills and housekeeping, which ordinary market rents did not. Source:bbc.co.uk/news.

Not bad for someone who didn't go?

---

15 May 09 - 06:49 AM (#2632371)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

Go there: one thing. Live there: another. We know one thing from bitter experience of Adams. He will lie, lie, and lie again to protect his murdering frineds.

---

15 May 09 - 08:12 AM (#2632433)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

"The creation of some of the allowances had a legitimate purpose, and teh use of them for that purpose is right. For example an MP would be reduced in the work done for constituents without an office and staff."

No-one would argue with that, Richard, but much of what's gone on goes way beyond that. Some of it is **only** morally reprehensible, but there's a substantial proportion that, should you or I behave in a similar fashion in our employment, would put us out of a job and into the dock in very quick order.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. We'd get nicked, so should those greedy thieving bastards.

And if I see one more crocodile tear running down the face of one of those pieces of excrement, I'll throw a brick through the f***in' telly.

---

15 May 09 - 09:02 AM (#2632494)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Keith A of Hertford

Two eyed member?
Get it seen to mate.
There should only be one.

---

15 May 09 - 09:04 AM (#2632497)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

As someone put it last night on question time.."If MP's are making SO MANY "mistakes" with their claims, how many mistakes are they making, have made runnning the country.?"

It just goes beyond belief that the different political parties have colluded to defraud the country out of millions of pounds for so many years. It must be collusion because each new "administration" whether tory or labour has allowed it to go on without check. It must be collusion because not one member of parliament has had the nerve or honesty in the past to publically state that there seemed to be a problem with the way expenses were dealt with or was open to abuse. The Tories could have stopped it, labour could have stopped it, the Libs could have raised the issue but none of them did anything and you can not tell me that no-one knew what was going on. This is larceny on a grand and organised scale the same as tax evasion, drug dealing, people trafficing other organised crime. They all had a chance over a long period of time to declare this but they kept silent. I can not think of one honest politician now. The lot of them morally corrupt. They disgust me.This is CRIMINAL and should result in legal proceedings against them.

I've known plenty of unfortunate people who have made a "mistake" and never got away with it why should they?

---

15 May 09 - 09:18 AM (#2632511)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Acorn4

If Screaming Lord Sutch was still with us I reckon he'd be pulling in the votes at the moment!

---

15 May 09 - 09:27 AM (#2632517)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Acorn4

Our local MP is Patricia Hewitt. About 3 or 4 years ago she helped us sort out a problem we were having with the DWP over our autistic son's Disability Living Allowance; we seemed to have been banging our heads against a brick wall for months and she got it sorted quickly.

To show some gratitude we went out canvassing with her at election time. She went into the middle of a shopping arcade on Braunstone Estate, just about the roughest estate in Leicester with only us and three other workers, two of whom were female, on a bitterly cold winter's day. There were some very dodgy characters about very high on booze or "certain substances", and the situation was very edgy.

This was just before she became Health Secretary.

Sometimes things like this don't get recorded, and politicians aren't all bad.

---

15 May 09 - 09:49 AM (#2632537)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Keith A of Hertford

Some have tried to get the system sorted out.
There have been those who campaigned for transparency.
The majority have always voted them down.
Now they all say that the system needs changing, but only since being exposed.

---

15 May 09 - 10:04 AM (#2632545)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

"If Screaming Lord Sutch was still with us I reckon he'd be pulling in the votes at the moment!"

Having worked with him on a number of occasions (in my early musician-life, that is) I'd rather vote for David Sutch than any of those wankers in Westminster. At least you knew where you stood with the guy.

---

15 May 09 - 12:05 PM (#2632608)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Mr Happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOMSdH4qhaw

---

15 May 09 - 12:08 PM (#2632613)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Mr Happy

Sorry I posted that vid prior to watching it - if true, that's sheer vandalism!

---

15 May 09 - 12:16 PM (#2632618)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Mr Happy

However regarding the veracity of politicians in general, we really shouldn't be surprised, just heard on news O'Bama's done a u turn on Gitmo, after sayibg on his election day he was going to shut it down!

---

15 May 09 - 12:41 PM (#2632636)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Dave the Gnome

Q How many politicians are on the fiddle?

A All of them.

DeG

---

15 May 09 - 02:04 PM (#2632699)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

Gives a whole new meaning to "HP sauce" ! They could show a picture of a different MP who made "mistakes" every month, it would go on for years !

Bonzo3legs, what makes you think a tory government would have been so different? They had from 1979 until: disgraced, disliked and continuously distrusted ever since they were booted out, to have put this right. They enjoyed a period of sleeze like no other and have, as has been proven, done exactly the same as the rest of them. Only realy clever footwork by David Cameron scored the first try against labour by his clever first strike taking the moral high ground. I agree this lot who were going to be "whiter than white" have earned the same feeling from much if not all of the British public.

But you should remember this: Most of the freedoms you and I and the rest of us have been hard fought for by ordinary working people who have wrested these from the upper/ruling/superior classes. Do you really imagine that the self styled rulers wanted to free us from our peasent roles?

---

15 May 09 - 02:08 PM (#2632702)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

Won't make a scrap of difference, Bonzo-Dog-Doo-Dah, they're just as corrupt, crooked and criminal as the rest of them. Morally bereft.

The only difference between the Tories and Labour is that, whereas Labour at least try to pretend they respect the likes of you and me, the ordinary man, the Tories make no secret of the fact that they hold us (you included) in utter contempt. But I suppose you buffoons who vote for the Tories will keep dropping your trousers and sticking your arses in the air so that they can shaft you.

---

15 May 09 - 02:31 PM (#2632711)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

It has been stated that the only reason the tories paid their "mistakes" back so quickly is because they,generally, have a lot more money available to them. Old fatso two jags has only a mock tudor house. One tory scumbag claiming to have his moat cleaned shows the big difference. They are ALL the same.

---

15 May 09 - 03:38 PM (#2632745)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Spleen Cringe

But I suppose you buffoons who vote for the Tories will keep dropping your trousers and sticking your arses in the air so that they can shaft you

I just wanted that line posted twice...

---

15 May 09 - 03:39 PM (#2632746)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

Spot on Eric.

---

15 May 09 - 03:52 PM (#2632754)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)

ahhh...the sound of intelligent debate. No name calling here is there?

---

15 May 09 - 03:56 PM (#2632757)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST

"A millionaire Tory MP who owns 24 homes claimed more than £100,000 in expenses even though he does not have a mortgage.
Taxpayers' cash was mainly used for gardening and redecoration.
James Clappison, a work and pensions spokesman, bought petunias, geraniums and busy lizzies with public funds for his £375,000". Source;Daily Mail. Normally a fairly right wing paper. There you go Bonzo3legs and any other tory supporters! (Who feel that the tory party are a better class of scum than any other party)

---

15 May 09 - 04:09 PM (#2632773)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

Sorry, last post was by me sans cookie on this pc.

---

15 May 09 - 05:22 PM (#2632841)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Phot

Just to bring a little bit of thread drift, if I may, but on the general thing of entitlement. At the start of this month, I was told via e-mail, that I was required to provide four different types of proof of ownership of where I live. Due to the fact that I can claim an allowance equal to two round trips, from my place of work to home every month, total about £120. Now I pay full taxes at home, and full food and accomodation rates at work(Including council tax). But because I covered up all the private information (Account details, Council tax amounts, Amount outstanding on morgage, Balance outstanding on credit card.) what I had supplied wasn't good enough, and unless I supply the full non censored, I lose my allowence! On asking about the scurity of the information, I was told, "It will be kept in a locked safe" Access of which is open to at least 30 people, this make me feel like my personal data is really safe!!

If I bugger up a travel claim, I could lose my job, and my pension, the Millitary really jump on these things. All for as little as £1.00, A great feeling after 23 years of service.

Chris

---

15 May 09 - 05:44 PM (#2632857)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Bonzo3legs

But the working classes are there to be wound up - they are so funny!!

---

15 May 09 - 05:55 PM (#2632865)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

But not as funny as watching a pile of snotties getting drunk, wearing red coats and falling off horses as they try and keep up with a pack of dogs! Or seeing a bunch of yahoos half drowning as they fall orf daddies yacht when they hit a bridge pier and spill their champagne. But even funnier was the sight of tory MP's loosing their seats and Maggie leaving number 10 when her treacherous crew stabbed her in the back !!! NOW that WAS funny.

---

15 May 09 - 06:36 PM (#2632899)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: McGrath of Harlow

we can look forward to a proper Tory government.

Am I right to assume that that should be taken as heavy irony?

One thing that might be done would be to rush through legislation introducing so e kind of primary system for MPs so that a clear out of crooks could be carried out at the next election. That might sound imnpossible, but in the present climate of moral panic just about anythimg could be possible.

As for the euro elections next month, the best way to punish the big parties and scotch the BNP would be if we could all vote Green.

---

15 May 09 - 07:03 PM (#2632920)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

No matter what, there must be a transparent form of expenses for MP's. The abality to fiddle must be removed as far as possible. The next government should be formed from those who did not over indulge or make "mistakes" on a grand scale. I know and understand that that would disbar many of the present parliament from re-election and so it should.New candidates with fresh ideas, chosen from the local community and not foisted on us by the party. We need to get honourable people back into power and possibly at last a coillition so we get rid of party politics and the party whip. Our politicians should represent our views. They need to address the needs of the country.

---

15 May 09 - 08:43 PM (#2632968)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

The biggest problem with this thread, and with the public's reaction to these events, is that the perception has been engendered that ALL politicians, of whichever party, are involved.

This is far from being the case.

There ARE a minority of all parties who have ripped off the taxpayer, of that there is NO doubt. It is equally certain that there ARE members of all parties (including the Tories, Sorry to disappoint all the rabid antis here) who have acted in a truly honest manner, and resisted temptation.

THEY WILL ALL, UNFORTUNATELY, BE TARRED WITH THE SAME BRUSH by those who are simply looking to lash out blindly at authority figures, without regard to the facts.

One case that struck ME as justifiable, was the Labour MP who, having given over part of his house for use as a constituency office, charged rent for its use of £6000.

Regardless of where the premises were, this rent could not be regarded, IMHO, as unreasonable for an office. It is my belief that the politician in question saved the taxpayer money, as the alternative was to rent office accommodation from another landlord at considerably more than £120 per week.

I have commented on this case in particular because those who are aware of MY political affiliations will be FORCED to admit that my comments are NON-Partisan.

For Christ's sake, let's not throw the bairn out with the bathwater, and allow the likes of Nick Griffen, or the policy bereft Greens to administer the last nail in the coffin of OUR country.

Don T.

---

16 May 09 - 02:26 AM (#2633111)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

"ahhh...the sound of intelligent debate."

So, FG, let's hear your intelligent contribution, we're all ears....................

---

16 May 09 - 04:32 AM (#2633144)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Winston

I have to say the most enjoyable part of this circus was seeing Labour MP Shahid Malik, who spends most of his time campaigning against the BNP or predicting a totally Islamified Britain, has resigned in disgrace after being revealed as the biggest swindler of them all, ripping off taxpayers more than any other single member of parliament.

Mr Malik had refused to apologise, saying he had worked "by the book" and insisted he would not return any of the money to the taxpayer.
He then insultingly offered to donate the cost of his 40-inch flat screen to charity.

Mr Malik, who incredibly was also "Justice Minister" (I wonder what type of "justice"), has been exposed as claiming thousands of pounds in taxpayer allowances on his second home while renting his main home at a heavily discounted rate.

Mr Malik claimed £66,827 over three years on his house in London (£18,173 less than its original purchase price) while renting his main home in Dewsbury at a discounted rent of less than £100 a week.

Last year, he claimed £23,083 from the taxpayer for his London town house, equivalent to £443 per week. Mr Malik's arrangement means he pays below market rent for his main home while billing taxpayers thousands for his second home in London.

The MP for Dewsbury also claimed for thousands of pounds' worth of furniture and electrical equipment including £2,600 for a home cinema system - which was cut in half by the Commons Fees Office - and £730 for a massage chair.

Other items Mr Malik has claimed for include a £671 fireplace, a leather daybed sofa and a £510 fitted wardrobe. He attempted to make claims for an iPod and portable DVD player but these were rejected by the fees office as outrageous even by their already twisted standards.

Laughably, Mr Malik, who just last week took part in a coordinated media smear campaign against the BNP, defended himself by blaming the Fees Office rules.

"The expenses system is flawed," Mr Malik said in his defence. "I have not broken any rules."

Mr Malik confirmed that he had put a claim in for a home cinema system costing £2,600.

Mr Malik also faces allegations over the fact that his landlord in Dewsbury, millionaire Tahir Zaman, was fined in 2005 for letting a house to a family of five despite a council enforcement order classing the building as "uninhabitable."

Mr Zaman also received more than £4,000 a year from Mr Malik for renting out his constituency office to him. The money is funded from a separate system of parliamentary expenses.

In what is possibly one of the most incredible revelations to date, Mr Malik also claimed £65 for a court summons for council tax non-payment, making the taxpayer pick up the tab for the fines incurred by his personal unpaid debts.

Mr Malik is possibly most famous for predicting a totally Islamified Britain. At least he has given us the ability to see what type of standards we can expect once this happens.

---

16 May 09 - 09:37 AM (#2633266)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

Winston, I couldn't agree more. That man is a true shit. He hasn't done very much for Dewsbury anyway as far as I can see. Though he doesn't outwardly state extremism he has helped to develop a two tier justice system with sharia law gradually taking a place in the legal system of Britain. Not suprising (but sickening) that just down the road from him a BNP councilor (Roger Roberts) got elected in Heckmondwicke.Mind you, don't like or trust him either. Perhaps Shahid Malik should be publically stoned?

The penalty for theft
In accordance with the Qur'an and several hadith, theft is punished by imprisonment or amputation of hands or feet, depending on the number of times it was committed. Take him to court and he wouldn't have a leg to stand on !!

Bonzo3legs enjoy your polo while you can, it won't take much to get a private members bill or the european union to sort out a ban on cruelty grounds !! Haha

"No saviour from on high delivers

No faith have we in prince or peer

Our own right hand the chains must shiver

Chains of hatred, greed and fear

E'er the thieves will out with their booty [give up their booty]

And give to all a happier lot.

Each at the forge must do their duty

And we'll strike while the iron is hot."

The Internationale.

---

16 May 09 - 10:06 AM (#2633278)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

We're waiting, FG. Give us your intelligent pearls of wisdom, please do........

---

16 May 09 - 10:34 AM (#2633292)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Leadfingers

Wasnt it Al Capone (Another Occupant of the moral High ground) who defined an 'Honest Politician' as one who stayed Bought ?

---

16 May 09 - 10:41 AM (#2633297)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: bill\sables

As I see it there is a simple way to stop all this governmental fiddling. Do not allow any money for a second home in London but give MPs free accomodation and meals with total 24/7 security. The best two places to accomodate them would be Wormwood Scrubs and Holloway

---

16 May 09 - 11:01 AM (#2633313)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Shimrod

Congratulations to the Tory Press for diverting attention away from the bankers!

Although the revelations about MPs and their expense fiddling are shocking, what is more offensive to me is the fact that they have been ignoring the needs of voters and taxpayers for the past 30 years whilst, instead, supporting the interests of Big Business and the Filthy Rich. When they have finished sorting out their expenses system I wonder if they'll turn their attention to the iniquitous Lobby System? Don't hold your breath!

---

16 May 09 - 11:41 AM (#2633327)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

"The best two places to accomodate them would be Wormwood Scrubs and Holloway"

Great one Bill!

My understanding is that, some years ago, they had the opportunity to take over a large public property close by the Palace of Westminster to use as MP's apartments, but declined to do so. Wonder why? Clearly because they realised their opportunities for scamming the rest of us would be seriously reduced.

So, what's next? Hopefully the exercise will be repeated by the Telegraph over MEP's costs. Now that will be an eye-opener - it'll probably make this lot look like the poor relations.

---

16 May 09 - 11:50 AM (#2633335)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)

"UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough"

It just occurred to me. Since when has this been news?

---

16 May 09 - 12:04 PM (#2633344)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

100

---

16 May 09 - 12:15 PM (#2633349)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Bonzo3legs

No, a good number of MPs have shown themselves, (if we are to believe all reported in the press, which as we all know sensationalises at the least opportunity), to be little more than thieves, and should be punished accordingly by the full wellie of the law if appropriate.

And, if this presents an opportunity to vote out this unelected rabble of a government, then a jolly good job too.

---

16 May 09 - 12:50 PM (#2633377)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: McGrath of Harlow

The trouble is that under our electoral system the only alternative is a government riddled with similar freeloaders and crooks.

---

16 May 09 - 01:46 PM (#2633416)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

Hey Bill. You've not been on in a long time. Quite right. A prison ship in the thames estury would be good. They could have turned the old LCC/GLC building opposite over the bridge into accomodation. It would have been a good place, then there would be no fiddling of this sort. BUT the trouble seems to be that certain MP's would find a way to fiddle something else!

---

16 May 09 - 01:56 PM (#2633425)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Bonzo3legs

Perhaps they have been to Argentine or Nigerian corruption courses

---

16 May 09 - 02:03 PM (#2633432)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

Now Terry......that is a great idea. I seem to think that Al Capone finally got his because they found him to be a dollar out on his taxes or something (easily checkable) So they put him away for a while, they could do that to this lot......one chewing gum packet or bar of chocolate and you're copped !!! Hanging offence as Dianne Abbott said.

---

16 May 09 - 02:20 PM (#2633442)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

"They could have turned the old LCC/GLC building opposite over the bridge into accomodation. It would have been a good place, then there would be no fiddling of this sort."

Yep, that was the place I was thinking of. But they didn't want their opportunities for thieving and scamming cut back, did they?

---

16 May 09 - 02:43 PM (#2633456)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)

"Perhaps they have been to Argentine or Nigerian corruption courses"

"Congratulations to the Tory Press for diverting attention away from the bankers!2

This thread is definitely taking on a tone of hysteria

---

16 May 09 - 04:45 PM (#2633527)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,jeddy

not only are the pooitians that claim, responsibe for gross fraud but i think we should be looking closely at those people who looked at those claim receipts and thought that they were accceptable and reasonable requests! surely they should be getting as much stick.
as for not voting i understand the temptation but all will achieve is tp prove that we don't care andfrom the responce on this thread we clearly do!!!
i@ giong to try to find out who has swindled us the least and vote for themm NotBMP icould never bring myself to do that no matter what. it is in our power to scare and remind those we put in chrge of OUR country, that is OUR COUNTRY, not just a job that yhey can line their pockets. from jeddy

---

16 May 09 - 05:07 PM (#2633534)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Leadfingers

The Option " None of the Above" on the ballot form , included in the count MIGHT give a message to someone !!

---

16 May 09 - 06:39 PM (#2633570)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: McGrath of Harlow

Here's what the chair of the London Assembly had to say about this:

"With elections to the European Parliament coming up on June 4th I am sure many people are wondering whether it's worth bothering to vote at all. But that worries me. If the turnout is really low it makes it easier for the BNP to win a seat.

"So to decent people who cannot bear the thought of voting Labour, Conservative or LibDem this time, I urge them to think about voting Green. Not only will this help elect more Green Party MEPs, it is also a positive vote for the future. As we said in our election broadcast - if you don't want things to continue as they are, if you think fairness, integrity and the environment belong in politics then think about voting Green."

---

17 May 09 - 05:18 AM (#2633729)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Bonzo3legs

What is all this "chair" nonsense? It's chairman or chairwoman. You sit on a chair!!

Now, I have the solution for the thieving MPs - taking an example from the military junta in Argentina -------------a helicopter over the Thames estuary!!!!!!!

---

17 May 09 - 05:59 AM (#2633739)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: ard mhacha

It gets funnier still, the Queen is very annoyed with the going-ons at Westminister and it seems she will be taking Gordon Brown to task over the whole episode.
While Browns is at the palace he can ask Liz Windsor about her dis- functional familys expenditure, Prince William and Harry use the RAF helicopter to visit their girlfriends home and head over to the Isle of Wight for a stag party, the`copter only uses £15,000 per hour of tax payers money, you have to laugh.
This is like Ma Barker telling Al Capone to tread "the straight and narrow".

---

17 May 09 - 06:07 AM (#2633743)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Bonzo3legs

But the princes are thoroughly decent polo playing eggs, and they speak properly too.

---

17 May 09 - 07:04 AM (#2633771)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,jeddy

it seems like you can get away with anything if you have a posh accent god if only i did

---

17 May 09 - 07:36 AM (#2633788)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Shimrod

""Congratulations to the Tory Press for diverting attention away from the bankers!
This thread is definitely taking on a tone of hysteria"

Why is that hysterical? I agree that MPs' abuse of their expenses system is completely unacceptable, those who abused it should be punished and the system thoroughly over-hauled. But let's keep things in perspective. A few MPs got away with a few thousand quid by exploiting a weak system. But bankers lost billions, possibly trillions, of pounds - losing jobs, pensions and homes in the process and creating massive economic instability. Such instability, in the past, has led to war and the loss of millions of lives. Our attention has now been turned away from the really monstrous abuses of the bankers to the petty and squalid abuses of MPs. As always it seems that if you're going to commit crimes, and to get away with them, you have to think really, really big!

---

17 May 09 - 09:30 AM (#2633844)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

When is someone from the commons fees office going to make a public statement? From up here in't North; SNP Angus MacNeil,SNP Angus Roberston and of course Alex Salmond all with their noses in the trough.I can't wait for smarmy Tavish Scott to be found out as well. All with excuses.

"It makes one sick", as prince charles would say,especially after his "green" trip to South America. "To hear of these excesses by common people, Mummy isn't best pleased".

To quote from my sons student award form that I am filling in again so that he may study on a pittance "To knowingly give false information may result in prosecution".

I think they should be made to have all profits and proceeds forcibly repaid, then stripped of office, never allowed to hold public office again. Sack cloth and ashes for them.

---

17 May 09 - 01:23 PM (#2633963)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Backwoodsman

A red-hot poker up the arse would be better.

---

17 May 09 - 02:17 PM (#2634007)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Nigel Parsons

As it passed almost unnoticed (or on-commented on) in its own thread:

UK Politics 101: How to turn a prophet
Tune: Charlie is my darling

Back in 1987 Darling came to town
In twenty years he took the reins
Replacing Gordon Brown

Oh, Darling is a Charlie, a Charlie, a Charlie
Darling is a Charlie
Our young chancellor

His eyebrows dark and saturnine,
His hair a shining white
He's changed his main house sev'ral times
There's something not quite right.

Oh, Darling is a Charlie, a Charlie, a Charlie
Darling is a Charlie
Our young chancellor

He doesn't set the interest rates
'Cos that's done by the bank
But when the price of beer goes up
It's him we have to thank

Oh, Darling is a Charlie, a Charlie, a Charlie
Darling is a Charlie
Our young chancellor

He lets his comrades cook the books,
Change houses on a whim.
Buy women's clothes, or dirty films,
It doesn't bother him.

Oh, Darling is a Charlie, a Charlie, a Charlie
Darling is a Charlie
Our young chancellor

---

17 May 09 - 02:35 PM (#2634025)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)

The Option " None of the Above" on the ballot form , included in the count MIGHT give a message to someone !!

"Spoling" the ballot means that it won't be counted.

---

17 May 09 - 03:46 PM (#2634078)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Bonzo3legs

A - spoling we will go!!

---

17 May 09 - 04:42 PM (#2634127)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

Spoling: A high chair from Ikea. Probably get one on expenses. (Or a sexy Israeli massage..so it would seem) Jacqui Smiths old man got one of them on her expenses.

---

17 May 09 - 04:59 PM (#2634143)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)

Left wing, right wing, what's the difference? They're opposite sides of the same coin, both as bent as one another.

---

17 May 09 - 05:11 PM (#2634151)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: pdq

" But bankers lost billions, possibly trillions, of pounds - losing jobs, pensions and homes in the process and creating massive economic instability..." ~ Shimrod

I don't believe you should blame bankers in the UK. The economic problems we face now were caused by a collapse in real estate value in select regions of the United States.

The US government made banks loan money to unqualified borrowers. Two government-run institutions held over half the outstanding money secured by single family housing in the US: "Fannie Mae" and "Freddie Mac". They also make rules that forced private companies to make similar loans to people who had little hope of paying the money back.

Various securities were issued that were tied to these questionable real estate loans. When real estate values (especially in California) dropped to 50-60% of their previous value, the whole house of cards collapsed.

I see no Brits being at fault. Some of the "poisonous" securites ended up in the hands of non-US banks, but it was in good faith, I believe

---

17 May 09 - 05:32 PM (#2634173)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""I see no Brits being at fault. Some of the "poisonous" securites ended up in the hands of non-US banks, but it was in good faith, I believe ""



Now there's an interesting juxtaposition. "Good faith" and "Banks" in the same sentence, somehow doesn't ring true to somebody who is trying to recover nearly GBP2000 in unlawful bank charges, and is likely to get the money in ten years or so, when all legal fiddles and appeals have been exhausted, IF AT ALL!

The British Bankers were in it up to their well polished backsides.

Don T.

---

17 May 09 - 07:09 PM (#2634231)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: McGrath of Harlow

"I don't believe you should blame bankers in the UK."

Greedy bastards paid themselves enormous "bonuses" for wrecking the banks they had control of. I imagine that's true in both countries, and yes, we should certainly blame them. But blaming them doesn't in itself mend what they have done, or reduce the danger that faces us.

I think Peter Mandelson's infamous comment in 1998 "We are intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich" sums up the mindset that lay behind the shared ideology of those people who have wrecked our economy and corrupted our political system.

The frightening thing is that this is the kind of perfect storm that enabled Hitler to come to power in what was assumed to be a civilised and humane country.

---

17 May 09 - 10:23 PM (#2634373)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

That may be the least justified assumption I ever saw you make McGrath.

---

17 May 09 - 10:42 PM (#2634382)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Dave the Gnome

"Spoling" the ballot means that it won't be counted.

Not true! From that source of all reputable information, Wikipedia...
(Although I do believe this one to be true.)

"The validity of the election may be questioned if there is an unusually high proportion of spoilt votes, however, in countries such as the UK where a spoilt ballot paper counts towards the voter turnout, some voters will deliberately spoil their ballot paper to show disapproval of the candidates available whilst still taking part in the electoral process. In theory, a UK election could have a 100% turnout with no votes cast for any of the candidates if every registered voter were to spoil their paper, although this is highly improbable."

I also believe that the spoilt papers can and often are read by the candidates to confirm that the vote was or was not for them. So a cross in the box with a comment of "I would have voted for you had you not been such a greedy lying bastard." could indeed make a point.

Cheers

DeG

---

18 May 09 - 04:38 AM (#2634505)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""That may be the least justified assumption I ever saw you make McGrath.""

I think I'm with MGrath on this one Richard.

Circumstances are NOT unlike Germany 1933 (though less desperate) in qualitative terms, and we DO have our very own Nazi party just waiting for ANY opportunity.

Don T.

---

18 May 09 - 05:58 AM (#2634544)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Stu

I have spoilt my votes for years (since I realised B.Lair had conned us and because my local town council was so utterly crap) in a variety of ways.

I have written rants, insults, advice, pictures and more frequently poetry on my ballot paper but as so many people have suffered for our right to vote, I feel I have to make the effort.

---

18 May 09 - 06:20 AM (#2634561)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

Don, you address a different assumption. The one I meant was "assumed to be a civilised and humane country. "

---

19 May 09 - 06:21 AM (#2635529)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""Don, you address a different assumption. The one I meant was "assumed to be a civilised and humane country. ""

OOps! Much more dickifelt to argue against that one LOL

Don T.

---

19 May 09 - 06:46 AM (#2635544)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

Well, we've all had our chance for a good slagging session, and basically come to the conclusion that all our MPs are a bunch of corrupt, conniving, thieving, greedy bastards.....right?


WRONG!

It is undeniable that misuse and abuse of the system has been rife, but there is a large section of the House of Commons, and the Lords too, which is comprised of honest men, who have NOT taken advantage of the opportunities offered, and who have conducted themselves in the upright and honourable manner which we are entitled to expect.

However, these "honourable" members have found themselves tarred with the same brush, and subjected to unfair vilification based on what some of their colleagues have done.

The Daily Telegraph IS (to its credit) publishing a list of good guys, as well as bad, but the Media in general is not responding.

The public needs to know who they CAN trust and vote for, whichever party they support, and it may be that a swift kick up the backside for our local TV and Radio people would help.

I'm desperately worried that the backlash from this may empower some very nasty people to the detriment of us all.

Don T.

---

19 May 09 - 07:14 AM (#2635555)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

A story about Freedom of Information - an American news reporter - and British Government expence accounts....which was published last week.

foiadvocate.blogspot.com/2009/05/american-reporter-causes-stir-in.html

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

---

19 May 09 - 12:42 PM (#2635826)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

Way to go.Thanks Heather. That girl is quite right.

"Britain trades on a mythical reputation about the health of its democracy," she said.

That is entirely true. We in Britain have precious little freedom left.There is no democracy, we are governed by an unelected leader with a parliament that is basically corrupt. We need an alternative to rid ourselves of this plague. Please don't tell me how bad it is somewhere else, I quite realise that but if you stop to consider how our civil liberties have been completely erored it is a disgrace we have stood by for too long and let happen. Do you really think cameras, microphones,DNA, identity cards, people tracking in every shape and form, keeping records of e-mails, phone calls, internet sites visited etc will stop criminals and terrorists one bit? I doubt it.

Do you think it is right that the police can "kettle" and abuse people on lawfull and intentionally peaceful protest? Is it right that they can close off whole areas without any reason given? Pretty soon, they may come knocking on the door.............

Don. You may be quite right, but many of those knew the system was open to abuse and stood by idly doing nothing even if they didn't make personal gain. I know that there are honest and decent people everywhere. It's a shame that parliament has invented so many laws that make us, the general population, guilty before judgement or trial unless we can prove innocence. Such as the DNA database, various motoring laws, powers given to such as the child support agency etc. What happened to our right to be innocent until proven guilty?

These sneering politicians are at last begining to get the just reward for forgetting that we elect them to improve our common lives and not thiers.

These years may pass into folk legend as the time when government and the country was returned to the common man.

---

19 May 09 - 01:11 PM (#2635841)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

Constitutional lawyers have for decades been teaching how the two-party system denies democracy.

---

19 May 09 - 03:38 PM (#2635962)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

Perhaps the best (IMHO) answer would be to only vote for independent candidates. I don't mean that extremist groups would be allowed to field their members as independent but a parliament without the party whip would at least see MP's voting according to concience or voters wishes. They would have to represent their electorate. With expenses sensible and capped, designated accomodation instead of "second" profitable homes with mod cons many of us could only dream of, they would have to conduct the business of parliament. As "ordinary" people, they may be more in touch with the rest of us. As "ordinary" people they would stand and live in their electoral area and not be thrust on us by "the party". MP's should come from and live in the area they represent. (Unlike up here where at the last election a member from a party who had never been here before in her life tried to get elected stating that she'd move here if she was elected !! The public told her they didn't want her in no uncertain terms and also at the ballot box.

---

19 May 09 - 03:57 PM (#2635985)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: akenaton

Don T.
"Circumstances are NOT unlike Germany 1933 (though less desperate) in qualitative terms, and we DO have our very own Nazi party just waiting for ANY opportunity"

Correction.....we have four of them!

And waken up for fuck sake, we all know that politicians are bastards, but everybody in this stinking society is on the make "just waiting for any oppertunity".

Don't you know that's what the capitalism you love is all about?

---

19 May 09 - 05:16 PM (#2636050)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: McGrath of Harlow

Politicians may be bastards, but there are different types of bastards. Diseases are diseases, but there's a difference between a bad cold, a dose of measles and the Black Death.

---

19 May 09 - 05:29 PM (#2636060)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,Greycap

Don't be rotten to the politicians - 99% are making it look bad for the rest.

---

19 May 09 - 06:05 PM (#2636082)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

Whilst there are different types of diseases. It is probably true that any disease unchecked could prove fatal To distinguish between a cold and the black death for example. A cold can kill if it is not fought and eradicated by the bodys' defence mechanism.It is easier for the body to defend itself against a cold than the black death.It is harder against the black death as it is more resistant. These politicians are like that. If we get a good defence now such as the expenses scandal it will stop them evolving into something like the black death !!They may have started off many years ago with small abuses of power, now it seems they have evolved into something more.

Time to disinfect I say.

---

20 May 09 - 08:28 AM (#2636461)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,jeddy

i think bleach might be neeeded. this infestation of germs is worse than we thought!

---

20 May 09 - 11:44 AM (#2636622)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

My worry, along with the hundreds of others I've got, is that the lessons won't be learned and the rot will stay with us. Take a few years ago, Mandleson...out into the wilderness for his tricks, then into europe and back in favour (despite his dodgy claims) Hazel the hells angel. Dear old Gordon says anyone who has done the dirty will not be in my parliamentary party...yet Hazel who looked last week as if the chips had been cashed in is not guilty of a "mistake" or avoiding taxes, but Gordon has every confidence in her.

I suppose , though I fail to understand why, he has to keep some of his rotten bunch or else kick them all into touch. Then he'd have almost no one. Personally, I think she should go along with the rest of them. Let's see if the others get let off for their mistakes..If they do, then the whole thing is a sham and we will be even worse off for government condoning wholescale deceit.

---

20 May 09 - 12:41 PM (#2636681)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Peter K (Fionn)

The evidence of this thread is that the danger we face is not from latter-day Hitlers but from the lynch mob. Whoever said "hysteria" above was about right.

The basic MP salary is a bit more than £64k, which puts them in the top three per cent of UK earners. The maximum second-home entitlement is £24k (tax free, which is equivalent to £40k taxed at the UK higher rate (40 per cent). Add that, and also count also add the benefit of the (generous) non-contributory pension and you finish with a remuneration package of £120-130k depending how much value you put on the pension.
That puts them in the top one per cent, broadly in line with GPs and a little way ahead of secondary-school heads, these being the usually cited comparators. I don't regard that as outlandish.

Itnernational comparators don't help much in my view. There is wide disparity from one country to another for no obvious reason. Also the workload differs dramatically, and there is also disparity in career opportunites - variance in remuneration/responsibilities for ministers, etc. (Ireland's prime minister is one of the highest paid in the world, no doubt reflecting his exceptionally huge responsibilities.)

Anyway, I can't say I'm desperately concerned about the level at which we remunerate our politicians.

When the expesnses allowance was introduced in 1983, this was in part a trade-off for the fact that they did not impleement an independently recommended pay hike. That was wrong-headed, but again I'm not inclined to get hysterical about it.

It should be remembered that many MPs take home nothing like the £120-130k package because they don't claim anywhere near the maximum second-home allowance. Where they do, some of those claims are entirely legitimate in every sense. Even where such cases are dubious, it is becoming clear that the fragile basis of those claims was fully understood by the fees office which allowed them. In fact in some cases the fees office encouraged such claims.

All this unrestrained venting of envy-driven bile on politicians who, in the main are far less greedy and corrupt than in very many other countries, simply demages democracy, which is not a perfect basis for government at the best of times. Try redirecting some of it at, say, Premiership footballers, to say nothing of our merchant bankers, venture cpaitalists and company directors, who are sometimes rewarded a thousand times more handsomely than any MP.

---

20 May 09 - 01:51 PM (#2636741)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Eric the Viking

"All this unrestrained venting of envy-driven bile on politicians". Surely Peter this in not envy, but angry? Of course the riduculous (and enviable if you want )amounts of money made by pop/rock stars, company directors, bankers footballers etc may make them obvious targets for envy and perhaps many of our politicians see themselves on the "A" list and alongside them.

From my point of view and many other people to whom I have spoken are angry. Because; these are the law makers who have found hundreds of ways of making us live in a punitive society, the people who give old age pensioners a 10p rise on their pensions, who tell people living on benefits through no fault of their own (It does not need stating there are many lazy ones) that they get enough to live on, who give the unemployed a pittance and see them loose their houses through repossession, who consider that £5.something is a living wage hourly rate to support a family, who tax us and then tax us on top of the taxes, who stand in parliament and moralise at us, etc.

These are people to whom we have entrusted the running and ordering of our society on our behalf.We are entitled to better !!

Whilst you may make comparisons with some Head teachers and Doctors for the salary. There is a big difference in workload, responsibility and what would be the response to the revelations of late. A HT would be out on his ear if he made these "mistakes" and a Doctor would probably get struck off. These MP's seem to have gotten away with it (mostly)by claiming a "mistake". "I'll pay it back", solves everything. The it being anything that should not have been claimed for.

Many people I know have spent a small fortune of their own putting resources into classrooms to enable them to do the job for our childrens futures. Never claiming a penny, they use their cars for running kids about, doing things for the old, infirm or supporting those in difficulty.These bastards even claimed for kitkats because they could ! Many people where I live try to bring up families on less than £15000 a year, no expenses! To my mind £120 K plus the obvious and less obvious perks seems a triffle outlandish.We have been let down as a nation in a time of severe hardship for the general population.In a way, they have stolen from their employers (us) were we to do it, we'd be sacked.

---

20 May 09 - 02:55 PM (#2636798)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""Correction.....we have four of them!

And waken up for fuck sake, we all know that politicians are bastards, but everybody in this stinking society is on the make "just waiting for any oppertunity".

Don't you know that's what the capitalism you love is all about?""


Christ, you ARE a miserable sod, aren't you, Ake.

You know damn well that there are a considerable number of honest men, inside parliament, who haven't been involved in this system, and an even larger number OUTSIDE, who care about their fellow man(something YOU certainly can't claim), and live honourable and useful lives, benefitting the community with their presence.

All YOU seem capable of doing is pissing and moaning about what is wrong with a world that can't see the amazing revelations of the wonderful (though intellectually lazy) Akenaton, for the blinding truths YOU perceive them to be.

Tough luck mate. Most of us CAN see the good in mankind, imperfect though we be.

It's much harder to se the good, if any, in the constantly negative, though intensely opinionated brethren.

Don T.

---

20 May 09 - 07:17 PM (#2637048)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: McGrath of Harlow

How could anyone possibly get by on £64,000 a year without bulking it up with dodgy expenses???

I don't know anyone who has ever earned anything even approaching that much. I find it hard to imagine earning that much myself. I find it even harder to imagine how I could earn that much and feel it wasn't more than enough.

---

20 May 09 - 08:42 PM (#2637116)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Peter K (Fionn)

McGrath, you may move in a narrow and impoverished circle but you know very well that the "haves" of this world never have enough. And UK politicians come far down the scale in that respect.

For my part I would prefer payscales nearer the old GDR model, whereby surgeons and company bosses earned only about twice as much as the lowest paid. That might be a bit extreme, but I don't see why anyone needs more than three or four times the average wage. The argument that people would then have no incentive to rise to the top and become the boss is simply ludicrous.

But alas we don't have that system. Believe it or not, McG, I have perhaps two dozen friends and work colleagues who are on £64k or more. Many deputy headteachers, especially in London, will be on that kind of salary.

I am sorry to say that those of you who are bitter about what MPs are paid are doomed to disappointment. The decision to put their remuneration in the hands of an independent authority will quite certainly ensure that they get a substantial hike in their £64k basic pay.

There is a strong case for reducing the number of MPs, and there is an even stronger case for cutting out the real abuse whereby some MPs take on paid work outside parliament. The expenses scandal is a relatively trivial matter.

---

20 May 09 - 09:02 PM (#2637127)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Richard Bridge

Hmm, £64K to start work after lunch? I think I could manage that.

---

21 May 09 - 05:37 AM (#2637368)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Peter K (Fionn)

Ah, Richard, it would seem you understand the workings of parliament about as well as you understand the UK's constitution!

---

21 May 09 - 05:50 AM (#2637377)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Stu

Tony Benn has long advocated bringing MP's pay structure into the same used for the civil service to ensure they are paid a fair rate.

---

21 May 09 - 06:11 AM (#2637391)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Gervase

As Peter says, £64k isn't huge. I was earning around that some ten years ago, and I had no trouble spending it all and thinking that a bit more wouldn't go amiss. And I fiddled my expenses. I remember making some lame justification that I was doing my bit to stop Lord Rothermere becoming even more obscenely rich, but that was fatuous.*
MPs will probably get parity with head-teachers of large schools and GPs - which will bring them up to around £100k a year.
In my view that is too much, given that the average MP (in my experience) is not the brightest bunny in the hutch, and would struggle to reach the middle ranks of local government and would probably flounder in a larger private sector enterprise.

*These days I get by on considerably less! Last year's turnover on the farm and restoration business may have been around £60k, but the profit was less than £12k, so this is one cat that has become thinner. Happier, too, however.

---

21 May 09 - 09:52 AM (#2637574)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: akenaton

Well Don, I did say that everybody in this stinkin' society are on the make "Just waiting for any oppertunity". The point I was making is that a vast number of humans NEVER get any oppertunity and never will! While we let a mad system like capitalism rule the world.

The biggest robbery of our tax pounds and dollars in history has just been perpetrated and we sit around with our fingers up our arses complaining about MPs.

Is it any wonder I'm a miserable "Sod"(a little politically incorrect there Don) :0).

Anyway i'd rather be a miserable "sod" than a stupid one any day.

---

21 May 09 - 11:16 AM (#2637659)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Rifleman (inactive)

"The evidence of this thread is that the danger we face is not from latter-day Hitlers but from the lynch mob."

This scares me far more than anything any bent politician (of an any stripe or political persuasion)could ever do.

---

21 May 09 - 04:18 PM (#2637891)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

Question time on at an earlier time. The MP's are still defending their position. The claims, "we made mistakes", " the system was at fault".When challenged by Yasmim Alibhai-Brown about why one MP had known the system was bad since 1997, the MP didn't have an answer. Nobody made them claim for duck ponds or avoid capital gains tax. As for hysteria and lynch mob comments. I think you need to see a lynch mob in action. What comments are placed on this site only equate to the anger the population seems to feel. Considering the anger many people feel, most of the comments placed here are restrained.

---

21 May 09 - 04:27 PM (#2637903)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: Rifleman (inactive)

"What comments are placed on this site only equate to the anger (some segments of) the population seems to feel"

---

21 May 09 - 04:32 PM (#2637910)
Subject: RE: BS: UK Politicians: Noses deep in the trough
From: GUEST,eric the viking

Yes, Rifleman. I should have said "some". There are some who don't think this is a big deal. I've not met anyone myself and so only spoke for those I knew.

---