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13 Jun 09 - 12:28 AM (#2655414) Subject: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Mrrzy My only nephew on my kids' side of the family is joining the Army. Should I or should I not do whatever I can to stop him? He's bipolar and in his manic state really wants to kill people and get paid for it... I am sorely tempted to write fake letters from men saying they've had sex with him. I don't want him in the armed forces at all... yikes... his mom is really upset too... |
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13 Jun 09 - 12:38 AM (#2655417) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: artbrooks If he has actually been diagnosed as bipolar it is unlikely the Army will let him in - if he disclosed that. If they know, and have determined that he is adequately (medically) controlled, than I'd guess he is also able to make his own decisions. If they don't know, for everybody's sake, fink him out. |
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13 Jun 09 - 12:48 AM (#2655419) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Stilly River Sage He doesn't sound like the best candidate for the military, and it doesn't sound like a good match for them. But fake letters would be transparently obvious. Maybe his Mom should speak to someone above the recruiter. The recruiter is the LAST person who is going to admit a mistake. They're trying to get warm bodies into the military. SRS |
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13 Jun 09 - 12:54 AM (#2655424) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Amos A letter to a commanding officer of the recruitment detail--I am not sure what the hierarchy looks like there--would probably turn the trick. You need someone with some brass. A |
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13 Jun 09 - 07:11 AM (#2655498) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: GUEST,English Jon Well, obviously, we should all do our level best to keep EVERYONE out of the army. Cheers, J |
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13 Jun 09 - 07:17 AM (#2655502) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Lox Write a letter saying he's bi-polar. If he's already ill then military service can only make him much worse. Besides which, no soldier would be happy in combat knowing that his comrades nerve and reliability were suspect - it would be unethical in a military context. Then there is the question of making mistakes while in the grip of one or other extreme - murder of civilians in a war zone? whilst on a highg feeeling invincible and putting himself and his colleagues in danger, whilst on a low being a deadweight to be dragged around in a stupor of self indulgence ... First and foremost, someone with Bi-Polar disorder needs to be cared for in a way that the military cannot hope to provide. |
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13 Jun 09 - 09:18 AM (#2655539) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Rapparee I served with a couple of bi-polar guys. Nobody should have to. The recruiting sergeants are looking for bodies; if he is accepted in he'll be given a battery of tests which might weed him out. If not, a letter to his Basic Training CO should do it. |
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13 Jun 09 - 10:24 AM (#2655580) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Greg F. And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy." With apologies to Arlo. |
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13 Jun 09 - 11:08 AM (#2655592) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Leadfingers Even off the front line I would be a little worried about serving with any poor so-and-so who was Bi Polar ! Drop a line to the recruitng people ! |
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13 Jun 09 - 03:12 PM (#2655714) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Not all recruiting people are jerks. At the time of the Vietnam fiasco, a son (born in U. S. but living in Canada) wanted to join the war. The recruiting officer (in a Texas city) told him to get his tail back across the border. If he still wanted the military, get his college degree and then apply. I agree that the Recruiting Office head should be contacted. As a soldier, he could be a danger to the people serving with him. Recruits go through a sketchy psychological appraisal, but this is poor unless medical history is available to the examiner. |
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13 Jun 09 - 03:23 PM (#2655729) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Peace "Should I keep my nephew out of the Army?" Yes. |
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13 Jun 09 - 04:45 PM (#2655767) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Dead Horse It is the job of the recruiting folks to get numbers. But they can still be held accountable for any consequences caused by an individual inducted by them, so they are definately open to persuasion - if only to cover their own asses should the sh*t fall on their dept. Write. Get the lads doctor to write. Involve local politicians etc. The more the better. Its not just this lads safety that is at stake (which is understandably your main concern) but he would also be risking his comrades and ultimately, his country, in the eyes of the world. |
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13 Jun 09 - 08:16 PM (#2655872) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Dorothy Parshall YES! We see what it does to allegedly "normal" people. Even if not sent into a war zone, it can be, and often is, detrimental to mental health. |
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13 Jun 09 - 09:02 PM (#2655885) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Joe Offer Yes, he should be kept out of the Army, but I hope there is an official diagnosis of bipolar personality disorder that can be used to support your information. I'd guess it's best to contact the commander of the local recruiting command, rather than the individual recruiter. Recruiters should respond to something like that if contacted, but usually they're under under incredible stress from recruiting quotas, and they don't really usually have the knowledge needed to handle such issues. I'd report it to the local recruiting command, and leave it at that unless it's clear you're getting a brush-off. If your nephew actually gets accepted for enlistment after you've filed a complaint, then go higher in the chain of command. I spent a long time investigating a problem in a recruiting command in my area, and it was a very interesting situation. Management was placing unreasonable demands on recruiters, and it put thme in a very dificult situation. My findings cost the Department of the Army a lot of money. Since I never really liked the Army when I was an unwilling member, that gave me great satisfaction. If you need help, contact me privately. -Joe- (you can find my phone number in Auburn, California) |
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14 Jun 09 - 03:39 AM (#2655961) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: bubblyrat If the US Army or whatever ,have not yet been able to devise a test,or series of tests,that can establish a recruit's psychological state of mind,reason for wanting to join up,and mental fitness to serve,then God help us all !! Having said that, there doesn't seem to be much point in joining the Armed Forces if you are NOT prepared to kill people,when you think about it ! During the Falklands War,here in Britain,a navy Chief Petty Officer was drafted to a warship bound for the South Atlantic war-zone,and refused to go!!----He said " That's not what I joined the navy for " ! He was court-martialled, of course. |
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14 Jun 09 - 05:16 AM (#2655981) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Tangledwood Do you have guardianship of your nephew? If not I don't think that you have the right to stop him however desirable it is. Strongly advise against it with all evidence that you can gather, but can you really overide the wishes of his parents and him? |
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14 Jun 09 - 08:13 AM (#2656043) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: kendall Is this on the level? |
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14 Jun 09 - 08:24 AM (#2656047) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: gnomad I too have a nephew currently going in to the (UK) army, as did his older brother about 5 yrs ago. Judging by the exhaustive enquiries they both underwent after recruitment but before even basic training, including checks with their GP and places of education, I would expect the army to "weed out" your nephew's case even if you did nothing. Recent reports are that our forces are getting the big rush of would-be recruits which traditionally accompanies an economic downturn, and are currently able to pick and choose only those who precisely match their requirements. |
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14 Jun 09 - 02:00 PM (#2656223) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Jim Dixon My wife and I have deplored this war from the get-go, and yet we have a nephew who wanted to go. He survived one tour of duty unscathed, and is back in the US now, but expects to be sent to Iraq again. He went in for idealistic reasons, hoping to do some good, and I believe he was sincere, but he came back disillusioned. He is frustrated and angry, but he blames everything on stupid tactical decisions by his superiors, and as far as I know, still doesn't question the basic assumptions the war is based on. His mother (my wife's brother's wife) suffered great anxiety while he was gone, and I hear that everyone else in the family avoids mentioning the war in her presence, for fear of upsetting her. I've heard she avoids watching TV news or reading newspaper accounts of the war. I don't think this is a wise way of dealing with stress, but what are you gonna do? He is the middle of five sons, and he was picked on badly by his older brothers when he was younger. I witnessed some instances of sibling violence that I never would have tolerated if I had been their parent, but his parents did tolerate it. Of course he provoked it, too—one has to wonder why. Mrrzy, unlike me, you have a perfect reason to intervene, something that no responsible person would object to. Use it. You might be saving your family a great deal of pain. |
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14 Jun 09 - 03:33 PM (#2656298) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Uncle_DaveO Get the lads doctor to write. That would be a gross violation of medical ethics, and I believe also a violation of law. Ever hear of physician-patient confidentiality? Dave Oesterreich |
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15 Jun 09 - 01:32 AM (#2656618) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: M.Ted If a a doctor believes that a patient is a danger to themselves or others, then thconfidentiality doesn't apply-beyond that, forging documents in order to influence a government decision can cause a lot of trouble for you-- |
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15 Jun 09 - 07:27 AM (#2656787) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: kendall Dont count on the recruiter to weed out the duds. If you are warm and breathing, you're in. I saw a guy who was blind in one eye fake the vision test. He passed.Another was a "Piss a bed"; he got in, but didn't last.Another was a flamer, he didn't last. With all the information there is to counter the lies of the Bush gang, how can anyone still think this war is about OUR freedom? What a crock! |
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15 Jun 09 - 11:35 AM (#2656961) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Mrrzy Yes, this is on the level. No, I don't have guardianship, but he lived with me for his last year in high school after "running away" from his mom, and we've always been close anyway. He's my children's cousin on "their" side of the family, but when I divorced his mother's brother, they were part of the family that came with me. Since the death of my X, his uncle, we have been even closer. (His birth interrupted my first date with his mother's brother, and although he doesn't remember it or probably know about it I miscarried my first pregnancy at his third birthday party...) I think he'll make it through any possible weed-out process - he's white, finished high school, and when he told the recruiter he smoked weed the recruiter said Don't call it weed, call is "spiritual" - and we'll delay the drug test for a month. I am not kidding. I think I can justify this on the idea of protecting fellow soldiers, but I'd be doing it to keep him out of it. Not sure I have the right to do so, but I feel I have the obligation anyway. |
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15 Jun 09 - 12:26 PM (#2656991) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Amos You have the right to communicate. If the lad is unhinged or liekly to become so under extreme duress, it would be the decent thing to do. I would start pulling strings to find out who the right CO is to write to. A |
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15 Jun 09 - 12:34 PM (#2656998) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: PoppaGator "Not all recruiting people are jerks." Maybe not, but they are under incredible pressure to provide warm bodies to the war machine. Suicide has become rampant among US Army recruiters (expecially in Texas, if that is at all relevant), enough so that the Pentagon and several congresisnoal committees are looking into it. The brief rush of idealistic/"patriotic" volunteerism that occurred in the wake of 9/11 is all over, but the need for personnel is not. Q's anecdote about Vietnam-era recruiting protocol is irrelevant today. As all of us of a certain age should recall ~ and many of us will never forget ~ that the US military was able to rely upon conscription (the draft) for their cannon fodder back then. Today, the military machine has to rely upon an all-volunteer force, which is why so many young people are being sent back into combat for second, third, and fourth tours of duty. Your nephew's individual recruiter is NOT going to want hear about any condition that might prevent his recruit from going through with induction. His/her commanding officer might be more responsive, but the CO has quotas to meet, too. If there is an actual documented diagnosis of bipolar disorder, you might consider notifying your congressman. |
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15 Jun 09 - 06:56 PM (#2657267) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Rog Peek I once saw a slogan painted on a wall, it said - "The Body Is Fragile, Keep It Out Of Uniform!" How true. Rog |
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15 Jun 09 - 10:01 PM (#2657375) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Barry Finn Sorry to hear about your nephew going through this. My son is Bi-Polar too & the miliarty would not except him with this disorder (at least they weren't interested when he inquired out of curiosity when in high school & talked to ROTC), at least if they knew about it but then when the military gets disperate they tend to wavier many things. Right now they are having a terrible time dealing with the current high rates of military suicides so they may not want your nephew even if he wants them. Barry |
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16 Jun 09 - 04:08 PM (#2658008) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: C. Ham If the U.S. Army is now happy to have neo-Nazis in its ranks, then I'm sure they have no problem with bipolar soldiers. Neo-Nazis are in the Army now |
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17 Jun 09 - 01:42 AM (#2658307) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Barry Finn They won't take just any-body. My son's best friend is living with us, he's in the reserves. He just recently tried to join & go active & go overseas. They would not except him. He's trained in construction/masonary. Barry |
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17 Jun 09 - 01:44 AM (#2658308) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Barry Finn Thank God. We tried to talk him out of it, told him he could stay here as long wanted/needed. He tried anyway. In this economy the service will probably get a lot of the poor. Barry |
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17 Jun 09 - 02:10 AM (#2658314) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: 3refs Someone who's got what it takes to put their life on the line for me deserves much more than I could ever give to them. If you don't want to stand behind your troops, feel free to stand in front of them! That being said. if the young man is ill or has mental issues he should not be in the forces. |
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17 Jun 09 - 12:00 PM (#2658629) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Mrrzy 3refs, these people aren't putting their lines on the line for ME - but for Big Oil. I think they are at best misguided, at worst, well, never mind. But I do not support the troops. And I am still vacillating about whether to interfere or not. I'm going to ask his mom what she thinks... |
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17 Jun 09 - 09:19 PM (#2659035) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Naemanson The advice I give my students when they ask this is to point out that when they are lying in the mud eating cold food and dodging bullets the Navy is eating three hot meals a day, and sleeping in beds. Many of the jobs in the Navy involve sitting in an air conditioned electronics room. This may not work with someone who is convinced that they are going to go "over there" to kill people. However, the Army is an all volunteer force and can afford to be picky when it comes to individuals. There is extensive psychological screening. Remember Arlo Guthrie's experience that he relates in Alice's Restaurant? That was in the days when the draft would take just about anyone. Today's Army wants to create a professional fighting force. If they have someone who might go nuts with a machine gun they will boot him out faster than you can say "You're fired!" Also, if, for some reason he gets through the initial screening and nobody picks it up in basic training then he will still be under scrutiny by the NCO's and the officers. They all have a vested interest in making sure everyone around them is cool under fire and will not do something stupid. Remember, the military today is very different from the military I served in. They have made huge improvements. I have two family members in service right now and one who just got out. The one who just got out wanted to go "over there" and kill and maim and walk around with guts hanging from his teeth, etc. Now he is in college and thinking about going to medical school. He is a devoted father and a great songwriter. Big change! That's my $.02. |
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18 Jun 09 - 03:22 PM (#2659599) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: PoppaGator Good point about the Navy, Bret. Of course, for a young kid whose psyche is suspect, the safer-and-saner alternative might NOT be the most attractive. The Army in general, and of course most authority figures up and down the chain of command, certainly wants to weed out potential troublemakers and "crazies." However, the recruitment command is faced with unrealistic quotas, and the lower-ranking NCOs who have to do the actual recruiting are subjected to very intense pressures, so there's no guarantee that some very shaky candidates won't be inducted (even if they will inevitably be kicked out in the near future, perhaps under the lifelong shadow of a Dishonorable Discharge). That's also good news about your young relative who "just got out" and is now a more mature person with a brighter future than before. A heavy dose of reality can do that for a person. But are there not many others who desperately want to get out, and can't? I'm pretty sure that not everyone going back into combat for second, third, and fourth tours of duty is an enthusiastic volunteer. Many of them originally signed up for the National Guard or the Reserves, not the full-time regular Army. These are people who did NOT start out with visions of "guts hanging from their teeth"; many of them have had enough and want out, but they can't get out ~ even, in some cases, despite having completed the term for which they signed up. |
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18 Jun 09 - 03:41 PM (#2659624) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: frogprince As a Navy vet, I would have to agree that, in most cases, life is a walk in the park compared to combat duty. But military life in itself, and shipboard life, can involve a lot of singular stresses. You can't just walk away from an extreme personality clash with someone you are assigned to work with daily in a space like a walk-in closet. No one with serious stability problems should be subjected to military life, for his own sake and for that of his fellows. |
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19 Jun 09 - 05:26 AM (#2660038) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Naemanson I never claimed it would be easy to go into the Navy but it sure beats mud and MREs. I joined the Navy to avoid the draft and Viet Nam. It worked. The alternative was a one way ticket to Canada (About 8 miles away at the time) but I think I made the right choice. It certainly worked out for me. As for the kid Mrrzy describes in the first post, I doubt they'd take him and if they did I doubt they'd keep him. As Poppagator rightfully pointed out the Army is needing people right now but they can still afford to be choosy. By the way my authority on this is my position as a high school teacher. When the kids reach Junior year the military really starts swinging the carrots. I have one student who finished his Junior year with a contract to join up after he graduated. He has money to spend and no need to work this summer. He'll finish his senior year and go off to Boot camp and start working his new job right away. A few months ago I had an Army recruiter spend the day in my classroom talking to my students about the Army. It wasn't my idea. It was the guidance counselor. Anyway I asked the questions the kids needed to be asking. I wanted to make sure they heard the answers. Allowing for the usual recruiter BS it was clear to me that the military has changed drastically since I was young. Because the military is an all volunteer force they need to make some effort to keep the troops happy. Soldiers and sailors have more say in where they get assigned, they are allowed to marry and stay together, the college benefits are better than the G.I. Bill ever was, and the bases work hard to make sure the families are safe and happy. Here on Guam we have a huge Air Force base and a big Navy base. I have worked there and know how much of my job was involved in making sure the families were taken care of. I also have friends who are in the service as well as family members. They are not the happiest they can be but they are pretty happy. As for the poor souls who are stuck with multiple tours overseas and for those who wish they could get out, I guess that's the down side of the system. I wish there was something that could be done for them but you have to remember that they have benefited a lot from their deal with the devil. Now they have to make good on it. |
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19 Jun 09 - 09:59 PM (#2660636) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Riginslinger I'd let him join, and then disclose that he might have a very slight problem. That way the army might send him to do something like supply--so they call in quartermaster?--which might keep him out of harms way, and still qualify him for all the post military benefits that are available once he's discharged. |
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08 Jul 09 - 05:50 PM (#2675151) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Mrrzy Yay, he came down off his manic high in time to not join! He'd passed the drug test and everything... Let's hear it for the pendulum, which isn't as sexy as it sounds. |
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09 Jul 09 - 03:05 AM (#2675419) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Peace Good. |
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09 Jul 09 - 03:33 AM (#2675431) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: The Fooles Troupe Don't put your daughter on the stage Mrs Worthington, Don't put your nephew in the Army... and point number 3... as I just found out Don't try to post to mudcat using the Web browser Dillo.... it won't work.... |
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09 Jul 09 - 04:47 AM (#2675473) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: SharonA My bipolzr niece joined the Army National Guard several years ago. She went through the whole recruiting process, which presumably included a drug test (though I don't know that for a fact), and said her goodbyes to family and friends. On her very first day of training, she fell and broke her ankle. THEN the Army took a look at her medical history, and they discharged her! |
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09 Jul 09 - 08:18 AM (#2675596) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Jeri Basic training brings mental health issues out, but I'd think it's pretty painful to have that happen. There was a girl in my basic training flight that had a sort of paranoid delusional thing (I don't know what the accurate classification would be). I noticed something wrong, told the TI (training instructor) and got (predictably) yelled at because I was invading the sanctity of the TI eating area and interrupting breakfast. She listened though, and the girl got the proper care. She regained health and a few weeks later returned long enough to say goodbye. I'd guess and potential problems would be noticed in that 'trial by fire', but there's a chance they wouldn't be and life could get pretty bad. It would have been tragic for the girl I knew if she hadn't managed to get out of that stress-induced state. I'm glad your nephew didn't have to go through that. |
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09 Jul 09 - 08:44 AM (#2675620) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: jeffp Bipolar disorder and access to weapons is a very bad combination. |
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09 Jul 09 - 08:48 PM (#2676178) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: Peace Do you have a name, Guest? |
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10 Jul 09 - 07:58 AM (#2676493) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: 3refs I've never even heard of an individual, let alone met one, that joined because they wanted to protect the big oil companies! |
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12 Jul 09 - 01:19 PM (#2678330) Subject: RE: BS: Should I keep my nephew out of the Army? From: SharonA 3refs: In my niece's case, she joined because of the Army's promise of assistance with college tuition, college expenses and student loans. |