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19 Aug 09 - 06:35 PM (#2704156) Subject: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie For the last few weeks I've been rolling this subject over and over in my mind. Haven't come up with any answers so I turn to the 'Cat. Now that it is legal to carry guns openly wherever you go, (And that is the elephant in the room), why would you? I definitely understand carrying when you are out camping in the wilderness (I am American, after all), even in the parks; I've never seen them there but there are wild animals out there (even some two-legged ones) which may attack a human being some day and I can visualize a circumstance where a gun could make the difference between life and injury or even death. But to political rallies? Town halls? Schools? Churches? Urban areas, where there are already security forces? Why? |
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19 Aug 09 - 06:55 PM (#2704163) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu That is a loaded question. >;-) |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:02 PM (#2704165) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: pdq You can expect a loaded question from Ebbie. That gal is a real pistol. |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:04 PM (#2704167) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Joe Offer gnu, meet pdq. pdq, meet gnu. [grin] |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:12 PM (#2704174) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Emma B and watch out there's a smoking gnu about :) |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:16 PM (#2704177) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Only reason I can think of is rust. If you carry concealed and you sweat and you don't have the time to clean yer pistol everyday? |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:17 PM (#2704178) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Good one, EB. |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:20 PM (#2704181) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Lay that pistol down, babe, Lay that pistol down, Pistol packin' Mama, Lay that pistol down. (Haven't thought of the Al Dexter song in years. A sure money maker on the juke box). |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:34 PM (#2704188) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Mister, Saturday Night's are special, Put a man six feet in a hole. So, why don't we dump them people, To the bottom of the sea? Before some old fool come around here, Gonna shoot either you or me. |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:45 PM (#2704195) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Leadfingers A picture in todays Torygraph of Protesters outside a Convention centre in Pheonix Arizona where President Obama was speaking carrying Assault Rifles ! Pray tell me why ANYONE in a So-Called Civiized country needs a Bloody Assault Rifle other than The Military ? |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:51 PM (#2704201) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace "Roses 're red and violets 're purple Sugar's sweet and so is maple syrple Well I'm the seventh out of seven sons My pappy was a pistol I'm a son of a gun" (Roger Miller) Geeze, ya need the assault rifle in case your pistol runs outta rounds. (Stay with the program good buddy.):-) |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:55 PM (#2704203) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace To be serious a second, Pat Paulsen posed a similar scenario in one of his speeches when he was campaigning for the presidency back in '68. He suggested the best way to stop skyjackings was to give everyone a gun as they boarded the plane. And he said it with a straight face. Anyone who has never heard/seen this man would be doing her/himself a favour by looking him up on Youtube. |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:58 PM (#2704205) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Leadfingers, both the military and street gangs find them very useful. |
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19 Aug 09 - 07:59 PM (#2704206) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: McGrath of Harlow Terrorists like to have them handy. Carrying an assault rifle to threaten the life of a President should definielybn be recognised as an act of terrorism, and be treated as such. |
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19 Aug 09 - 08:04 PM (#2704211) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: curmudgeon "...why would you?" Substitution. If they had to expose that with which they were born, no matter how small, they could be arrested for indecent exposure. BTW I am a gun owner - Tom |
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19 Aug 09 - 08:11 PM (#2704219) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: heric This may not be helpful, but I think it must be a statement saying: "'This' is the way it's gonna be." I just can't get my head around what "This" means, though. Maybe it means "I'm as free as a bird so I ain't listening to your crap." (And see me here not listening - ~I~m~not~listening!~) |
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19 Aug 09 - 08:18 PM (#2704226) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee I have a concealed carry license. I have weapons I could carry concealed. I don't. I think that those who feel the need to demonstrate that they have the right to "keep and bear arms" should also demonstrate that they understand the responsibilities that go with that, for there is no right without a concomitant responsibility. |
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19 Aug 09 - 08:18 PM (#2704227) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Little Hawk Chongo's been bitching about this for years. He must be very happy with the present town hall situation...or at least he would be if they would ease it up a bit so everyone can carry automatic weapons too. After all, as Chongo often says, "A gun ain't a problem until the wrong person uses it. To prevent that you gotta ensure that the right people all have guns. The right people outnumber the wrong people by a wide margin. If all the right people are packin' heat, the wrong people ain't got a snowball's chance in hell." If elected, he will do everything in his power to ensure that every man, woman, and ape in the USA can carry a loaded gun to work, while shopping, riding a ferris wheel, chilling at the local watering hole or attending the church of their choice. ;-) Ammunition stations will be placed in convenient public locations such as malls and parking lots so people don't run out. "There's nothin' worse than realizin' you ain't got a full clip in yer gat just when you most need it." |
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19 Aug 09 - 08:33 PM (#2704238) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie ""There's nothin' worse than realizin' you ain't got a full clip in yer gat just when you most need it." Ah, hah! I gather that women don't have that problem. Little Hawk, I now know where Chongo's political sympathies lie. |
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19 Aug 09 - 08:39 PM (#2704241) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Just for the girls- Glambo Signature Series "Hello Kitty" HK-AK-47. Only $1072.95! Glamguns Just for you, Gnu and pdq. The man at the Obama speech was carrying the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle- not an automatic assault rifle like the AK-47 type; a legal gun. In form, the AR-15 looks very like the AK-47. A high-volume seller since 9-11; Cost $800-$1500. These rifles are not available online, but can be had at your neighborhood gun store. |
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19 Aug 09 - 08:44 PM (#2704243) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp Huh? Whaddya mean, Ebbie? I don't follow you. I am in favor of women packin' just as much heat as men. I'm in the forefront of women's rights in that respect, matter of fact. I believe every woman should be armed at all times. Sarah Palin is a real good role model in that way, and we see eye to eye on that one. Yessiree. Purses are real good for carryin' a sidearm, and you can put extra ammo in there too, but always be sure you can get the purse open quick! And carry an extra piece on yer body too, just in case, cos someone could snatch yer purse. I just don't get what you are on about. Is it the word "gat" that has you confused or what? Are we communicatin' here? Capiche??? - Chongo |
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19 Aug 09 - 08:52 PM (#2704249) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bobert Well, living in the in capital of the country (Virginia) I have given it much thought and think it has to do with SPS (Small Penis Syndrome)... But maybe not... I really don't have a clue why a half a dozen guy would need to strap on guns and walk into a Chuckie Cheeze... I do know that if I show up at a town hall meeting in my district where Eric Canter is our representative with a sign that depicting Canter as Hitler and with a gun starpped on my leg that I'll either be arrested or shot by the local authorities... It's beyond me why these folks showing up where the president is going to be with weapons strapped on their legs aren't arrested??? What, are we gonna have to wait for one of these loonies to shoot someone before we get it??? B~ |
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19 Aug 09 - 08:59 PM (#2704251) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Q.... for me? Why? |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:04 PM (#2704253) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Emma B Bobert, here in the UK where we have gun laws just look out for the bloke with the biggest camera and lens combo in a small singaround ¬ :) |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:05 PM (#2704254) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Janie Ebbie, I really appreciate that you gave context in your post. Camping in wild areas, it makes sense to you to carry a firearm, or have one readily assessible. I have a not-at-all tested theory that when or whether a person carries a gun, or feels a need to insist on his/her right to carry a gun depends on a number of variables. Culture and socialization is certainly one variable. Another deals with how well the Eriksonian developmental crisis of trust vs. mistrust get resolved in early childhood. Yet another is how life circumstances and experiences at ages well beyond early childhood has shaped one's perceptions of danger and safety, and lastly, how inclined toward risk-taking is an individual. The last includes those who get a thrill out of being in potentially dangerous situations, and those who are determined to pursue their interests and like adventures, access the dangers, more or less realistically, and decide the pursuit of the interest or adventure is worth the danger, but they want to be prepared as much as possible. Testoterone levels probably also figure in to the equation some way or another, but not hugely. Janie |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:07 PM (#2704258) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Janie Should have written "Culture and/or socialization...." Alternatively, should have used "are", instead of "is." (Sez she who is feeling paranoid about pendants.) |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:08 PM (#2704260) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Janie And "have", instead of "has." Oh hell. I didn't proofread. I think you can get my drift anyway:>) |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:18 PM (#2704266) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Hmmmm..... I have never felt the need to say this before, but, as I grow older, perhaps I should "trust" more. Peeps that are "NRA" are scared of the antiguns. Why wouldn't they be? As I said many times, YOUR freedom was won through the barrel of a gun. That is a fact. Plain and simple. Read some history. Now... carry guns in every day human life and interaction? Inane! And, here's what I mean, illogical. If someone is gonna rob you at gunpoint and they see you are armed, they are either gonna leave you alone or shoot you before they take your money. Do the "ins and outs" of that... illogical to say it makes you safer. Far more safe to allow concealed carry. Here, we allow no carry. Best system, I think. |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:20 PM (#2704268) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee Those who pack heat forget several things: 1. They can't shoot first without being the assailant. You have to be in imminent danger. That means that you can only shoot me if I draw on you first (yes, this is quite simplified). 2. It doesn't matter if you're packing an atomic cannon -- you're dead meat if the other guy shoots you first. 3. Why advertise it? It doesn't intimidate me and it just makes you look that much more like a eunuch. Were I to carry concealed (and I have on certain occasions) I carry concealed -- not to play Rambo with real guns. 4. It calls the attention of the cops to you. This is usually not desirable. |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:29 PM (#2704275) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu rap... snap! |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:31 PM (#2704277) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu oops.... "snap" is a Brit term for when two peeps think and say the nearly same thing.... nearly the same thing... you know. |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:34 PM (#2704279) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace Hey, gnu, snap is a British term used when two peeps think and say almost the same thing, well nearly the same thing at the same time, ya know? |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:36 PM (#2704283) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Snap. |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:41 PM (#2704284) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Janie crackle, pop.... Rice Crispies! |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:45 PM (#2704286) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Sorry, Gnu. It's just that I thought your handle was an anagram of gun. Rapaire, the assailant first rule doesn't always apply. Depends upon the state and the decision of the inquiry, and the decision made regarding the validity of the threat. I remember some years ago, a highschool girl in New Mexico (Santa Fe), saw someone at her bedroom window (second floor). She took her pistol from her bedside table and drilled him in the head. The decision was that she had just cause, since the man was known to police. |
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19 Aug 09 - 09:58 PM (#2704293) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude an absolutely true story. It is extremely rare for me to carry a firearm normally only camping in the woods. Once I was working at a hospital in a city. It was in a bad area and had a drug rehab clinic. I was working on their computer network and when I finished two of the nurses asked if I would walk them to their car so they didn't have to wait for security. I was packing concealed (I am licensed) .. when I got to the car they were a bit ahead of me. Suddenly out of some bushes (stupid have bushes in a bad area by the way) a very large hooded man came out at one of the young nurses, he had a hunting knife. I yelled and in a blink of an eye I had drawn my colt .45 and had him right in my site. He heard me yell saw the hand cannon and took off running. No one hurt. The police came took the report checked my carry license and then told us this is a bad area and we should not be out late at night. how stupid when a person has to work huh ... anyway, I was very thankful I was carrying at that time. Now I ask myself would I have used it ... Thankfully I did not have to ... but yes I would have had he been two steps closer to her. |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:10 PM (#2704303) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Deckman Once you make the educated decision to pack, the only other question is WHAT to pack. If life around you is that threatining, then pack a weapon that meets that threat. Pretty simple. Meet the rules ... training, license, sensible cautions. Practice shooting ... it keeps you responsible. Bob(deckman)Nelson |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:11 PM (#2704304) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: GUEST,hg Well Janie, that's a pretty spot on analysis I think. This entire thing has really gotten out of hand and I hope the gun nuts are happy with ordinary citizens carrying AK47s at a public political rally "because they can"...and who in the hell needs to carry a firearm while they are out camping in the woods? Have you ever used it? Come on....Repeal the second amendment. I would like to only be afraid of the police and not just every dam wacko that walks down the street packing a concealed weapon. |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:16 PM (#2704306) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie If I recall correctly, this recent ruling that carrying is legal is true only in cases of open carry; concealed weaponry is illegal. Is that so? Should look it up. Incidentally, what about the ubiquitous gun rack in a pick up truck that we used to have? I don't remember that anyone ever looked at one of those askance- although it was the butt of frequent redneck jokes. |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:16 PM (#2704307) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude wish it were that simple HG ... and I don't know what kind of camping you do but I bet sure as hell it has never been in the high Rockies .so I suspect you would not make such a statement if you knew what you were talking about. and as far as an AK ... they can outlaw every one of them as far as I care. And if you can get a carry permit in the state of NY ... you are checked out from everyone including the FBI for approval. ... so you better not have a ticket for spitting on the sidewalk ... other state not quite so hard |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:19 PM (#2704310) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee Now, what I find interesting is the picture of the guy with the AR-15: here's one. This dude is African-American. Wasn't all that long ago black folks with guns scared the living crap out of white people. |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:32 PM (#2704317) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee To get my carry concealed permit I had to present proof that I had had classes in firearms use (I had, hours of it, to get a permit in Kentucky). I had a background check done against the National Crime Computer (FBI) and against the FBI and State Police fingerprint files. I had to present evidence that I lived where I said I did and was a legal resident of Idaho. This was not and should not be a "walk in" affair. Q: I said that the scenario was simplified. I didn't even touch on discrepancy of force, for instance, or protecting the life of another. HG: You've never lived in the Rockies, have you? There are some mighty critters out there, and I wouldn't want to face them with anything less than a .357 magnum or, better, a 12 gauge slug. Better still, I'll make enough noise that I don't surprise them. Sorry, but I don't like to stick to sidewalks and Interstates. I'd druther not shoot anything except a paper target, but if I absolutely have to and it was me or "him" -- I'd rather it was "him." (Alaskan fishing guide: So, why do you have a .38 with you? Touroid: In case I run into bears, of course. AFG: Could I suggest something? File off the sights and the hammer spur. T: Why? AFG: It'll hurt less when the bear sticks the gun up your ass.) |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:33 PM (#2704319) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Liz the Squeak "What, are we gonna have to wait for one of these loonies to shoot someone before we get it???" Seems someone does just that every day... you still haven't got it. I am not a fan of the gun, but I have handled and fired several varieties. I respect the rights of others to legally carry and use if they wish. Being a Brit, we're not yet used to seeing our law enforcers carrying weapons, although in certain situations and locations, it's becoming more common. A gun is a tool, it should be carried when required - as the OP stated, when out in the woods for protection against animal attack - but only when the danger is likely. A chain saw is also a tool, but you wouldn't take one of those on the school run just in case you came across a good looking tree. If you are so afraid of your neighbourhood that you cannot step outside your door without carrying a weapon of any sort, then maybe it's time to consider moving to the boondocks. There will always be a type of person who needs to have the biggest, loudest, bangiest weapon on the block, it's an inbred human trait to try to protect our own lives and the lives of those we love... regretably, it appears that that type of person is usually the least mentally qualified to cope with the responsibilities that packing big heat entails. As for the 'assailant first rule' - I point you to the case of farmer Tony Martin, who, ten years ago, used an unlicensed shotgun to shoot at two men who were breaking into his house. One was killed, the other wounded and Tony Martin was jailed for manslaughter. The 'rule' is not hard and fast. LTS |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:47 PM (#2704329) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Your point LTS is well taken the bad guys will use anything no matter what it is ... and yes growing up a hunter and a fisherman in the woods we learned respect for the tool before we learned to ride a bike for sure. My gripe is we have somewhere around 10000 firearm laws, and they are only respected by the law abiding. Go to any city block and you can see the bulges out of the pants of the gun carrying gangs and that is a felony but yet I don't see police squads coming in to clean out the law breakers ... sad actually why anyone feels the need to have to carry a weapon ... and even sader for those who don't when they are faced with what I had ... so I don't carry unless I am going someplace where the tool maybe needed and pray that is never is. I only go into the city when I have to ... country life is for this country olddude knocking holes in targets is the only wish I could have if life were simple and people respected the lives of others. by the way, I caught a ton of fish ... way high in the rockies this past weekend ... outstanding ... and Mike is correct grizzly bears still roam ... |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:52 PM (#2704331) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace Imagine if you will: when the fad becomes more common, and the boys have had one too many, will it seem like a good time to see who can draw the fastest? Stay tuned. More soon. |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:53 PM (#2704333) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie "They can't shoot first without being the assailant. You have to be in imminent danger. That means that you can only shoot me if I draw on you first (yes, this is quite simplified)." Rapaire Liz, I don't understand your :"I point you to the case of farmer Tony Martin, who, ten years ago, used an unlicensed shotgun to shoot at two men who were breaking into his house. One was killed, the other wounded and Tony Martin was jailed for manslaughter. The 'rule' is not hard and fast." To my mind, your example is a classic case of the 'shoot first, get arrested' scenario that Rap propounded. In this country, by the way, it is not considered self-defense when you are defending only personal property. Only if you or another person are in fear of your life are you allowed to shoot or to kill. So, in this country also, Tony Martin would have served time. |
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19 Aug 09 - 10:54 PM (#2704334) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Ebbie depends on the state for handguns and the type of carry permit that is issued. In most states you can get a handgun permit for target or hunting (still checked out very closely) but the concealed carry is far harder like I have and many others here. All state that I know of require a certified safety course, FBI screening etc ... it is not easy for the law abiding for sure ...nor should it be ... |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:01 PM (#2704338) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude you cannot point a firearm at someone it is a crime without just cause. You have to have just cause that is your life is in immediate danger. If you shoot someone it has to be in clear life or death situation. Could I have fire when the guy had a knife ... well yes but it would depend on how close ... if he was within striking range of her he could have killed her with it ... but where he was he posed an immediate threat that I stopped by drawing my weapon .. I didn't need to fire nor should I have. Had he been closer I would not have had a choice none. But I am very well trained and a former officer so I knew what I was doing ... I thank God everyone walked away including the bad guy |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:05 PM (#2704340) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: GUEST,hg Oh pleaase that macho caveman stuff is just so over! You can't go around randoming shooting animals that you are afraid of up in the Rockies. Hunting laws and species preservation laws prevent that! You can't just shoot any human being you feel threatened by either so what is that about old dude and rapaire? Repeal the second amendment, arm yourself illegally against the armageddon if you're that paranoid but in the meantime if you are on disability or you take medications or you have ptsd from the military, you shouldn't be allowed to handle guns! |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:06 PM (#2704341) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Donuel "If you know someone is going to kill you, wake up earlier and kill them first" The Talmud. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth... The Bible Gun sales and ammunition sales are up by 500%. It is fueled by the rumore that Obama will ban all guns in his final year. Among rednecks/racists/ignorant bastards, there is a saying that there is only one thing (N word)s understand, then they pat their gun. Mostly I believe that people who feel empowered by guns feel liberated by this call to terrorize Democratic Congressmaen and their constituents as called for by Dick Morris and others on FOX. These people who would love to carry their guns all the time but know people look down on it are feeling very good about themselves now that it seems they are getting respect and attention by carrying guns to meetings and Presidential speeches. They feel like hot shit carrying heat. |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:16 PM (#2704344) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace I guess we'll see lots more of this, huh? |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:19 PM (#2704348) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude the guys carrying AK at political rallies should be allow anything more than a crayon ... they are unstable and shouldn't be allowed to own a dog never the less a firearm ... and why they are not immediate arrested puzzles me ... brandishing a firearm is a felony. and HG clearly you never been out of your house ... nor saw a bear outside of the local zoo ... nor confronted a felon with a hunting knife ... nor fly fished the high country alone or with a couple of friends ... if you do bring a baseball bat to pelt the bear before he eats you ok ... me I will have something that will stop him ... |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:21 PM (#2704350) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Beer Packing heat is not the same as when you had to do it to put food on the table. It made me feel good to carry but when it was not necessary any more I never carried again. But I'm sure this thread is not about what I just said. Beer (adrien) |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:24 PM (#2704351) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude By the way, my doctor buddie said that where he fishes in Alaska, you are required to be armed due to the risk of brown bear attack ... I don't live in Alaska but maybe those who do can confirm |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:28 PM (#2704352) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Beer that is why mine sit locked up. I no longer hunt anymore ... just fish and like I said ... I carry a firearm in the high country or if I have to go to a city place like where that hospital is located ... so for the 1-2 time a year I do carry I am glad I have the permits. And mine are good in 26 out of 50 states do to the agreement between state carry laws |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:35 PM (#2704355) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Beer Interesting Dan. I was up in Whitehorse(Yukon) on a vacation for 3 weeks and went salmon fishing. The fellow with us carried a 30/30 for protection(bears). Ad. |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:36 PM (#2704357) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace When I need to carry I will. I had to twice in the past for reasons I will not get into here. Until those reasons happen again, what's the point lugging around a piece of iron? |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:50 PM (#2704364) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Art Thieme I used to drink vodka and jello all the time. I was arrested for carrying a congealed weapon. Art |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:50 PM (#2704367) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Peace well said, I hate carrying the thing, who the hell wants to lug it around and always have to be aware of safety ... twice a year is plenty for me ... Bruce I figured out a new stop smoking method, light one up at 11,000 + feet in the Rockies ... wow what a headache it gives ya didn't smoke more than 4 cigs for 5 days |
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19 Aug 09 - 11:51 PM (#2704368) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace People go to jail for less than that, Art! |
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20 Aug 09 - 12:00 AM (#2704372) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Jell-O ARt, and I thought we were friends ... OMG LOL |
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20 Aug 09 - 12:03 AM (#2704373) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: artbrooks My brother (who thought that John McCain was a liberal but that Sarah Palin was ok) packs all the time. He dreams of having the opportunity to defend the world from a convenience store bandit. He is now in Afghanistan (as a civilian employee of the US military) and is required to carry 24/7. To each his own. Where I live (New Mexico), concealed carry requires a license and training, but just about anyone can carry a holstered hogleg on his hip. Personally, and I have carried both short and long guns at one time or another in my life, I'd rather rely on my cell phone and "911" than take the chance of getting into the middle of a grocery store shootout. |
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20 Aug 09 - 12:10 AM (#2704377) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace I'm with you on that. |
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20 Aug 09 - 12:12 AM (#2704378) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Art hear hear ... me I run ... no shame .... it is just the times that I couldn't it was nice to have it ... I like the whole avoidance concept much better hence I stay out of the city, poor fishin on concrete LOL |
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20 Aug 09 - 12:20 AM (#2704381) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ron Davies As some have indicated, the real question is why anybody should feel the need to be armed while attending a town hall meeting or other occasion to hear your elected representative. I wouldn't take any guns away ( except the assault weapons)--that's just what they want, so they can say "Obama's storm troopers are on the loose". But I'd take down their ID, including address. And send them home. If they don't want to go home, I'd have somebody monitor them every minute they are close to the meeting. And I sure as hell would not let them into the meeting. Just by showing up armed, they have shown how stable they are. Not likely to contribute constructively. |
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20 Aug 09 - 12:22 AM (#2704382) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace "You can't go around randoming shooting animals that you are afraid of up in the Rockies." No one suggested that. Certainly neither of those guys. |
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20 Aug 09 - 12:32 AM (#2704386) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Q (Frank Staplin) 66 posts! My, My. To repeat, the guy was carrying an AR-15; the AK-47, an automatic weapon, cannot be sold to civilians. I agree, anyone who goes to a political or other meeting with a lethal weapon should be arrested. Leave your gun at the door, pardner, was the old injunction. |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:12 AM (#2704405) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie Old Dude, I don't know of any such rule in Alaska, although I know that many park rangers believe everyone should who has any experience with firearms. At least some rangers are of the opinion that bear spray simply angers a bear and that a gun is the only answer. I know of one case where some park rangers 'maced' a bear and then a few hundred yards down the "road" found that the bear was stalking them. So I dunno. I know of another ranger (I used to work for Alaska State Parks) who believes that hardly ever should a person carry a rifle in the wild- "You walk different when you got a gun," he said. In Alaska, even in urban areas, we have a lot of bears. In downtown Juneau we almost entirely have black bears but there are some big brownies in the valley less than 10 miles away. In the for what it's worth department: The official advice to survive bear attack used to be to go into the fetal position and clasping your hands in the back of your neck. They still advise that for the browns but they have changed their minds about the black bears, instead advising everybody to fight back, making yourself as big and threatening as possible and making as much noise as you can. The reason, they say, is that the black bear may in the midst of its attack suddenly think of you as dinner. |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:16 AM (#2704406) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace The same advice is given by our park rangers, too, Eb. |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:23 AM (#2704407) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace Happiness is . . . . |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:43 AM (#2704409) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Joe Offer During the twenty-five years I worked as a Federal investigator, I was armed with a black ballpoint pen and a black leatherbound notebook. Kept me safe all those years. People got really nervous when I wrote their names down. -Joe- |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:47 AM (#2704410) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: eddie1 You can always kill two birds with one stone (or something like that!) http://cooldiscountinstruments.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=784 Eddie |
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20 Aug 09 - 02:07 AM (#2704414) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Liz the Squeak Public opinion was that Tony Martin was right to fire on the two men who were breaking into his home in the middle of the night - he was defending his property which he said had been burgled before. Even when it was revealed that the house in question was rigged and booby trapped, that the gun used was unlicensed and the slain burglar some distance from the house and running away, many still protested against his conviction. LTS |
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20 Aug 09 - 06:29 AM (#2704509) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: 3refs Here are some stats from About.com:US Government Info, with regards to gun control in Canada vs U.S.A. http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa030500c.htm Just a couple of things from "one of those gun nuts"! You can take an AR 15 semi-auto and put a drop in auto sear or a lightning link and make them fully auto. The same goes for AK's, FN's and many other semis's! Another "new" weapon of choice seems to be "The Judge". The Taurus .45/410 that can fire either .45 calibre bullets or 410 shotgun shells. |
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20 Aug 09 - 06:51 AM (#2704519) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: 3refs ps For those of you who fish or camp in "bear country" there's a couple of precautions you can take if you choose not to arm yourself. Wear a clip-on-bell. That way they'll hear you coming! Also carry "pepper spray for bears". Should you come across fresh bear stool, it's quite easy to tell the difference between Black Bear and Grizzly(or Brown)Bear dumpings. Black Bear stool is about the size of a large dogs, and will be full of berries, roots and smell like the fruit mash you make loonshine(moon)out of. Grizzly Bear(or Brown) stool will be about the size of a "road apple"(pony poo)and will be full of little bells and smell like pepper spray! They like spices too! |
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20 Aug 09 - 07:42 AM (#2704541) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: 3refs "Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". |
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20 Aug 09 - 08:15 AM (#2704559) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: kendall We live in a violent society. That is a fact. The people who have permits to carry concealed do not make it so. I have such a permit, and even with my background of federal law enforcement I still had to pass an FBI check. When I renewed it I had to pass another FBI check. The problem is, the drug addicts the dealers and the burglars do not have to pass any such check. If I'm armed all I'm doing is leveling the playing field. Another fact: Florida had a crime wave that became world famous. Then they passed a "Right to carry law" and the crime rate plummeted. Feelings and knee jerk reactions are understandable but I prefer the facts. Anyone who goes into the wilds of Alaska unarmed is an idiot.Grizzly bate.Anyone who goes into any bad neighborhood in any big American city unarmed is also an idiot. |
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20 Aug 09 - 08:22 AM (#2704563) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Dorothy Parshall There was a newspaper report some years ago of a woman who met a mountain lion on a mountain trail and sang her way around it. I have hitched in many parts of Canada (never in that dangerous country to the south). I have never encountered a situation where I felt endangered, (scared a couple times but not endangered) -not in the wilds nor in "civilized" areas. Have used well-spoken words at times. Respect the right to bear arms. Wrote editorials opposed to the current gun control in Canada - "only criminals will have guns". Respect those who need to hunt to eat. Father was a charter NRA member, also a Quaker and a pacifist. He taught me to use guns appropriately. My strongest feeling against carrying a weapon of any sort stems from the speed with which one's own could be turned against one - if the other has more strength or speedy reflexes. But then, I am still here, intact, and have never needed a weapon, beyond words. Lucky? |
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20 Aug 09 - 08:59 AM (#2704580) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee "If you need one bullet you probably shouldn't be there." --My brother Because I can carry a weapon does not mean that I do carry a weapon. I can run down children with my car, too -- but I don't. I used to work all night in a small city, upgrading the library's computer system, stuff like that. I carried, openly, a .357 (I had a permit to carry concealed, too). Yes, there were times...but I never needed to draw it from its holster. Nor have I needed to shoot any critter in the woods or mountains -- yet. I would first shoot in front of them, and the second shot would be for real. I have no desire to kill something I have surprised. As for big cities -- did you know that police in Chicago's Loop shot and killed a cougar last year? That black bears walk the streets of some towns in New Jersey? That the coyote is now found in every State except Hawaii -- and if you think that the coyote is cute and fuzzy you don't know coyotes. There was a wolf in my back yard last winter -- verified by the Fish and Game people I met outside my front door. Fortunately it was gone by the time they got to the back yard (I thought it was a large dog and was going to let it out). I also saw a coyote trotting along the golf course that's my extended back yard. Two years ago there were three cougars prowling around the married students housing up at the University. And I live in a town of about 55,000 people. But nobody packs a gun in town because of the four-legged wildlife. In fact, danged few pack a gun -- a cell phone can summon more firepower than The Old West every dreamed of...including tear gas, concussion grenades, and snipers. The last rattlesnake I saw crawled onto the path between my wife and me -- I stopped, it looked at me, tasted the air, decided I wasn't a threat, and crawled off to the creek. It was about four feet long; I was about ten feet away. I wouldn't have bothered it even if I could have done so as it was no threat to me. By the way -- shooting someone who is running away, even if they have broken into your home -- IS illegal. There is no longer an immediate threat. |
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20 Aug 09 - 09:01 AM (#2704581) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Will Fly I think we should all respect the right to arm bears. Consider. The bear weighs several hundred pounds and has to hunt his food down every day, or stand in freezing cold waters trying to catch leaping salmon. It's just not right. It's a bear garden out there. Now, if the bears were armed, they could loll under trees in the shade, pick out a suitable food source as it came past, ease off the safety catch and - lunch! They could also get rid of a few damnfool tourists as well. So - respect the right to arm bears - a slogan for tomorrow. |
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20 Aug 09 - 09:04 AM (#2704584) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee Bicyclists in Alaska: meals on wheels. |
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20 Aug 09 - 09:12 AM (#2704588) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Ebbie where I lived as a kid, it was normal to encounter a black bear. Mostly you yell at them or throw a stick they run away. When I was 12 I was walking down a path in the woods and in front of me was a black bear cub. We have a technical term for it, it is called "pants poopage" I heard the growl and knew the mom was going to kill me ... she came like a bolt of lighting ... I jumped up a small tree (aspen) and climbed. She was shaking the tree, twice she tried to come up to get me but I broke off a small branch and would wack her on the face. I figured I was dead. After a very long time she left with her cub. I stayed up there until it was near dark then came down and ran home ... needed a good change of unders for sure ... the black bear around my area are normally very timid but cross a cub ... big time hurt on ya for sure. |
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20 Aug 09 - 09:16 AM (#2704591) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Azizi Returning this discussion to the last sentence in Ebbie's first post to this thread, the question Ebbie asked was [Why carry a gun] "to political rallies? Town halls? Schools? Churches? Urban areas, where there are already security forces?" See two readers' comments from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/17/man-carrying-semi-automat_n_261279.html Man Carrying Semi-Automatic Assault Rifle And Pistol Outside Obama Event Huffington Post | Lila Shapiro First Posted: 08-17-09 01:58 PM "Bringing guns to these rallies is inappropriate and an impied threat. Especially given the political climate in the US at the moment. Not just with regard to the health care debate, but with so much hate-filled rhetoric hitting the airwaves - much of which is personally directed at Obama. There are very real concerns for the saftey of not just Obama but other polticians who have to contend with crowds shreiking "I want my country back!" and reciting the pledge of alleigance. The thing is, as inappropriate as bringing these guns is, if you even tried to disarm these crazies - purely for safety reasons - it would only confirm their view that "Obama is trying to take our guns away from us". Paranoia becomes self-fulling prophesy." ** ..."There's a time and a place. Some of those armed at the Town Hall Meetings were there to to protect our duly elected POTUS. What's the rest of them's excuse? Were they hoping a few doves would fly by? Were they afraid of being assaulted? Is that the best way to improve America's health care system? They may have been within their legal rights, but that hardly makes their armed presence appropriate for the occasion and one false move would have left them draining their life's blood onto the pavement or grass. Nobody's body is tougher than bullets, no matter what you're carrying - which doesn't make you tough anyway. Carrying a gun to a policy discussion event was civic irresponsibility." |
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20 Aug 09 - 09:29 AM (#2704598) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude I don't think anyone disagrees with you Azizi. Right now no one can carry a firearm on any school property nor should they. There is a federal law ... that should also apply to every other public meeting as such. They normally do not give carry permits to stupid. The process is way too complex. However in this country stupid can get an AK-47 does that make sense? nothing ever does. now if the discussion is why pack heat period. There are good reasons to at times. Why pack heat to a town meeting.... the reason is ... an unstable nut head who should be in jail is the answer |
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20 Aug 09 - 10:42 AM (#2704650) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Midchuck What Kendall said (in this thread, I mean, not in his normal mode where he drinks a lot of Jameson's and runs around waving his arms and yelling things like "Keelhaul the mizzenmast! Bugger the scuppers!"). My state, Vermont, is the only one in the Union, I believe, where you can carry concealed with no permit. Which is odd, with the overload of violently liberal politicians we have now. I'm sure no other state has the combination of legal gay marriage (as of 9/1) and total lack of restrictions on handgun toting. I guess the liberals are aware of what will REALLY set the woodchucks off, and avoid the issue. I have never carried in Vermont except on the way to shoot tin cans in the woods. No need. Vermont has the lowest violent crime rate of any state except the two Dakotas - and they don't count because they're so big and so underpopulated that no one lives within pistol range of anyone else. I definitely feel the need to carry if I go to Boston or any other big city. But there, I can't. Makes no sense. Peter. |
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20 Aug 09 - 11:04 AM (#2704662) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Stu Of course, if some bloke is trapsing around the mountains of Afghanistan carrying an AK47 he'll get a Hellfire missile in the swede that was shot from a drone controlled 10,000 miles away by some pale, spotty, game-playing military vid jockey hidden in a bunker under a hill in Nevada no questions asked . . . but if he turns up at a town hall waving one he's exercising his rights under the constitution. Who says the Americans have no sense of irony? |
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20 Aug 09 - 11:24 AM (#2704674) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude The right to bear arms is in the constitution, I support it ... there is no right to brandish a weapon for intimation purposes. That has been illegal since the 1800's. |
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20 Aug 09 - 11:27 AM (#2704676) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Stu A written constitution is an albatross around the neck of a nation. It was written in for a different age and for a unique set of circumstances and has no place in a modern, supposedly progressive society. |
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20 Aug 09 - 11:30 AM (#2704678) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude It would be wonderful to live in a world where not one of the damn things were ever needed again ... I would also like to live in a world where there was clean water, and air and peace between nations ... If anyone knows of such a place please tell me I will move there |
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20 Aug 09 - 11:42 AM (#2704689) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie A constitution is an albatross around a nation's neck, Sugarfoot? I don't agree at all. If we didn't also have a Bill of Rights, I would agree, however. A written constitution is a baseline, if you will. |
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20 Aug 09 - 11:44 AM (#2704690) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee NO town of any size in "The Old West" permitted carrying firearms, openly or concealed, within the city limits. Such was done, of course, but it wasn't legal to do so. Also, Hollywood and the movies have done a great disservice. Check out the actual death rates from shooting in towns such as Virginia City, MT; Abilene; Wichita; Ellison; El Paso; Tombstone and others. |
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20 Aug 09 - 11:47 AM (#2704693) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Midchuck Also, Hollywood and the movies have done a great disservice. Check out the actual death rates from shooting in towns such as Virginia City, MT; Abilene; Wichita; Ellison; El Paso; Tombstone and others. That's a little unfair to Hollywood. The disservice was already done, by the dime novels that were sold right at the same time, long before movies existed. I will agree that the movies made it worse. Peter |
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20 Aug 09 - 11:51 AM (#2704695) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Midchuck A written constitution is an albatross around the neck of a nation. It was written in for a different age and for a unique set of circumstances and has no place in a modern, supposedly progressive society. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong! Guns in the hands of the militia (which means "all the able-bodied citizens") protect against tyranny by one, or a few. A written constitution protects against tyranny by the majority, a/k/a "too much democracy." Neither of them work perfectly, but they're what we got. Peter. |
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20 Aug 09 - 11:52 AM (#2704698) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee Sorry -- I forgot about them. You're quite right; TV and Hollywood frosted the cake. |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:00 PM (#2704744) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Stu "Guns in the hands of the militia (which means "all the able-bodied citizens") protect against tyranny by one, or a few." Except that it doesn't in reality. It means ordinary people have deadly weapons and if they snap, or are mistaken then innocent people die. The rights of citizens to bear arms should be an anachronism in this day and age, if things are so bad and people's insecurities are so great then no amount of constitution is going help allay that fear. You live in the best protected country in the world, with no chance of invasion and a military with enough firepower it can throw it's weight about where it wants to. You are scared of each other, and that isn't healthy. You've no-one else to fight. Fear is what I see here, as Midchuck himself says: "I definitely feel the need to carry if I go to Boston or any other big city." You want to take a gun because you're scared, plain and simple. When I was in New York I felt zero need for a gun, and apart from the police I didn't see one. "A written constitution protects against tyranny by the majority, a/k/a "too much democracy." No it doesn't. People do. An educated and informed citizenry is the best protection against tyranny by anyone, but a people cowed with fear are easily convinced by the powers that be that they know best - you only have to look at US and UK foreign policy to see that. The constitution is a noble and massively important document, but it should be open to question and if a consensus is reached, changed. In the case of guns, the time has come. |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:24 PM (#2704762) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bill D Well, now that we have joked, offered guesses, commented on personal habits, related stories and generally done everything but answered Ebbie's question, here is the basic answer: The guy with the AR-15 and several of the others seen with guns were organized by Ernest Hancock, associated with the Viper Militia (Google either his name or the Militia name "Viper Reserves" to get an idea of their history. (I think Hancock was also 'doing interviews' of the gun carriers for his website) Basically, they were there to make a statement ...something to the effect that 'this is what it is coming to, and we are ready'. The Viper group has been in trouble with the law in the past, and has had not only firearms confiscated, but also Ammonium Nitrate, like was used by Tim McVeigh in Oklahoma City. Normal, average gun owners do NOT usually show up at political rallies displaying weapons...and THESE guys probably do not go to the grocery store and laundromat with AK-15...or even pistols strapped on. They WANTED to be seen and to energize anti-Obama force to think about "protecting themselves" from these Commie, liberal, socialist 'threats' to their 'freedoms'. Ok? |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:28 PM (#2704764) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: GUEST,mg Because of a right to self and community defense. Heard of Virginia Tech? To take out shooters before they take out more people. Oh goodness..it might be someone who stopped the shooting could be a veteran with PTSD. Should have kept her from her gun and let more people be shot. mg |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:40 PM (#2704769) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Well to each their own, all I can say is 18 years ago, If I wasn't armed I wouldn't be typing this. I figured the guy would have robbed us, Killed me, took the young girls and after he had his fun, diced them up ... as it was, instead he saw that a gun in the hands of a trained license citizen who said no way am I going to allow it and decided it was a bad idea. No OJ scene for this guy so say what you will ... I stand by experience |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:43 PM (#2704771) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude and Sam Colt was the ultimate peacemaker ... me thinks in this one |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:53 PM (#2704778) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bill D oldude...I assume YOU were trained, licenced and vetted by proper authorities to carry, and had good reason. Big Mick and several others are also in the category. I have little problem with this (although there are as many sad stories as there are good ones about the attempted use of guns by duly licenced folks.) I DO take issue with the idea that anyone who hasn't been convicted of a felony...yet being able to carry firearms. OPEN carry is provocation, as these folks demonstrated. |
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20 Aug 09 - 01:55 PM (#2704782) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Bill I could not agree with you more. |
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20 Aug 09 - 02:07 PM (#2704788) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie "The constitution is a noble and massively important document, but it should be open to question and if a consensus is reached..." Have you never heard of Amendments? Nothing new there. "Virginia Tech"? I fail to see how people/students whipping out their guns and firing at each other (Hey! He's got a gun!) would have made the situation any better. As the man said, When you have a gun your mindset changes. When your only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail. So something drastically dangerous happens and you know that you have a gun that will stop everything in its tracks but you see a gun in someone's hands or multiple guns in multiple hands what on earth makes you so sure that you will fire at the right person? Keep in mind that in a hostage situation even the police don't know how many gunmen/terrorists are involved. What makes you think you would know? After it's all over, do you want to end up blubbering in the corner, wailing "I thought he was/they were the bad guys?" I think you are a fool. (And if you don't know just who I am speaking to, that's OK too.) |
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20 Aug 09 - 02:17 PM (#2704791) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Donuel Sorry but a poem I wrote might fit here... WTC watching terror come, with total confusion walls trembled calamitously wasted cubicles crumbled with terrible consequences. we totally crumbled wailing tortured cries. where tiny corpses withered to chalk. we talked constantly who took control? wild terrorist cowboys washed their cash whipped the country who took cash. why this crisis? who's to change? weary terrorist commandos? weak timid cowards? western tradition continued when tensions cooled Widows taught children. Wives told Congress. Wisdom taught cautiously Weary troops cried War time cruelty Worried taunted crowds we took consolation we tivo'd comedies. while things change world trade creeps. Wallstreet trade collapsed wishful thinking careened without thoughtful care when traders cheated we thoroughly crashed. world trade centered with triumphant China when time came we took charge white terrorists conspired while toting colts watching townhall citizens wishing they could wipe them clear wanting to change what thousands created wonderful thoughtful change with tremendous care when they come we'll trap criminals don hakman 2009 (9 lines 11 lines 9 lines 11 lines 9 lines 1 line 1 line) |
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20 Aug 09 - 02:23 PM (#2704799) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Ebbie most licensed gun owners I know would never ever carry a firearm to a classroom even if it were legal. I have to agree with you. Most who can carry a legal firearm almost never do except when they know they have to go into a bad area. For example some of my neighbours have to go to that hospital for cancer treatment, it is the biggest around with the most facilities ... I completely understand why they sometimes decide to go concealed armed ... I won't go near the place without it. Nothing to do with walking different .. I guess maybe some people think that way but none that I know .. perhaps that is why it is difficult to get one, You need references in this state and not from your friends. You need references from and approval from the local police chief, and sheriff and judge and FBI ... and your medical records better show you are of fit mind .. or you won't get one. But that is for the law abiding, the criminals have no such process |
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20 Aug 09 - 02:35 PM (#2704810) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude I am sorry about my rambling. It is interesting to me cause I been there. There is this perception that armed citizens (legally that is) walk different or act different or take more risks. I think that is as far from the truth as you can get. What reasonable person you know whants to use a firearm on another? if you know someone they certainly are not reasonable. You cannot call it back once it is done and you will live with it forever. . All I was doing was walking to my car to go home to my wife and kids after a job that I had to do that made me stay late. The nurses didn't even know I was carrying nor did anyone else ... They were shocked, and thankful but was very surprised afterwords. My hope was the guy got scared and maybe changed his ways who knows, I prayed for him that he would change someday and not hurt anyone. You see it is not handed out like candy ... they don't give them away. If my neighbour is armed legally he is pretty much as close to a police officer as you can get without the badge in this state anyway. I cannot speak for other states. I absolutely disagree that a legally carrying citizen act different. I don't believe if for a moment. If anything they are more cautious. |
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20 Aug 09 - 02:37 PM (#2704813) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: GUEST,mg You don't know you will fire at the right person, but then if one person has a gun and is shooting people chances are she is the right person. Take your chances and let God sort it out. mg |
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20 Aug 09 - 02:41 PM (#2704819) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie My God |
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20 Aug 09 - 02:45 PM (#2704827) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Donuel old dude, You get to the point with fact, fun and fury, you don't ramble at all. I search the list for your posts specifically as I do for a few others. |
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20 Aug 09 - 02:56 PM (#2704839) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie Old Dude, some states don't require a permit for open carry. And how far do you trust a 20-year-old's judgment when it comes to guns, even on campus? Since Virginia Tech and other atrocities how many more youngsters do you think have guns at school? I'm sure there are even some parents who urge their child to take one along "just in case". The fact that it has not become evident is irrelevant- the first time there is a gun battle on a campus will be more than enough for me. I'll stick with my own judgment on this. I'm not afraid of nor even suspicious of the well-trained person packing. Although I must say that if I were part of a group traveling on foot through a bad part of an unfamiliar town and one of us had a gun I swear I would not feel any safer. I grew up with guns and we never considered them toys, nor did we think of them as 'equalizers'. My own feeling is that since the advent of cell phones there is a measure of safety that wasn't present before. How many muggers would dare grab someone when they're on an open line? |
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20 Aug 09 - 02:58 PM (#2704844) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: beardedbruce "And how far do you trust a 20-year-old's judgment " Federal law requires one to be 21 to purchase a gun. |
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20 Aug 09 - 03:13 PM (#2704858) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Ebbie for me only the well trained and the very responsible should. I know it is different in other states so I cannot speak for them. I don't know any police officer friends of mine or friends with permits who would advocate arming kids in a college classroom. A better approach is security personnel more camera's and more security is a better solution for such a place as a campus. As an ex college professor I would never advocate arming students of any kind. If a student does have a carry permit, he would not be armed anyway because he is one who obeys the law or would not have it. It is a federal crime to have a weapon on campus even if you hold the state license it is no good on campus. |
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20 Aug 09 - 03:13 PM (#2704859) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Donuel The bullet The bullet tears tissue severes vessels rips mother from child tears husband from wife severes hope from hearts rips time from life bodies fall tears fall at school at home. at work some call it a sport. others call it getting even if you are a bullet loving jerk its just your hobby its just your fun its just the countless children laying dead by your gun. |
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20 Aug 09 - 03:21 PM (#2704863) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie "Federal law requires one to be 21 to purchase a gun." Oh. That eases my mind. Indeed. |
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20 Aug 09 - 03:21 PM (#2704864) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: artbrooks Whether they can purchase it or not, anyone 19 or over can carry a firearm in New Mexico. |
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20 Aug 09 - 03:24 PM (#2704865) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Donuel a poem every gun owner and buyer should read ... perfect ... you see once it is fired it cannot be recalled. I thank God I did not have to use it ever. It was a sick enough feeling to have to pull it. But me and the nurses went home to our kids after and so did the bad guy. I sure hope and pray he did not hurt anyone else and learned something. Can someone please tell me why a big cancer hospital also has a methadone treatment centre for addicts at the same location in a seedy part of town ... how does that make sense ? is that normal? |
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20 Aug 09 - 03:37 PM (#2704872) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude I guess I don't understand the laws in all the states. I really believe a federal carry law would be a good thing. I don't believe at all that more guns in the hands of more people make you safe. It is just the opposite I think. But more guns in the hands of the right people does make you safe. We never argue that we need more police officers in the city but they cannot be everywhere and the cost to the public etc ..I read the average time to respond to a crime in most cities is 10 minutes. 10 minutes, I didn't have 10 seconds before she would have a knife at her throat. in NY it is hard hard hard to have the state say yes this guy this girl is completely qualified ... I never worry about the licensed gun owner carrying it is the gangs and criminals that I worry about. Probably culture in a region has a lot to do with it ... maybe the case in NM is due to little need because of the low crime or violence by firearms. That is why the leave it up to the states I guess |
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20 Aug 09 - 03:38 PM (#2704873) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Donuel Hospitals hvae psych wards which can be just as dangerous as addiction centers or viral epidemics. Old dude, in that situation you were that guy. The guy who had to do the right thing. A guy to be honored. I suppose policemen hope to be that guy but sadly too many become the victim. |
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20 Aug 09 - 03:50 PM (#2704888) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: GUEST,mg My own feeling is that since the advent of cell phones there is a measure of safety that wasn't present before. How many muggers would dare grab someone when they're on an open line? ------ Ask Christy? Cornwell of Georgia ...quite likely a distant relative of mine..who has disappeared while talking on a cell phone. Still missing I believe. |
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20 Aug 09 - 04:08 PM (#2704916) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude you see for me perhaps my thinking is different. If I am stuck in the middle of a terrible situation. I don't want someone else risking their life. Safety is our own responsibility. We ask a lot of our police officers but they are just citizens themselves that we trust. So I also trust other citizens that have proven their responsibility. They just cannot be there in time for you. The best approach is always stay away but sometimes trouble finds you and you do not go looking for it. I thank God I was armed I really do .. it would have been terrible and my family would be watching the results on the news. The police just cannot be there in time. Good people are victims of crime. Usually the most vulnerable, the sick or the elderly. I am sure the guy thought I was a doctor coming out with some nurses. Maybe he would have robbed us and left, maybe much worse. Never know and that is the good thing, I didn't have to find out. Good people can watch their own backs and that of their neighbours while assisting the police. I hate guns but until we all live like we should we need to understand them and the results afterwords. Anyway I am done with my ramblings |
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20 Aug 09 - 04:47 PM (#2704948) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bill D beardedbruce: New Mexico... "JUVENILE SALE Is it illegal to sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age? No State law does not restrict selling handguns to juveniles under the age of 21 by unlicensed sellers. Under federal law, only federally licensed dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering handguns or ammunition for handguns to any person under the age of 21. A strong state law is needed to stop unlicensed persons from selling handguns to those under the age of 21." |
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20 Aug 09 - 05:24 PM (#2704983) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee I will use any weapon that comes to hand -- sticks, pipes, chains, shoe strongs, knives, hatchets, pencils, oven cleaner, hands and feet, battery acid, a rolled up newspaper, a cane, hot liquids, the edge of a credit card, a broken CD, a broken bottle, a sock full of rocks, whatever comes to hand -- to defend myself or others who threatened by deadly force. Please note that the above list does not include firearms. If one were available to me I would use it, but it's far more likely that I'll have something else at hand. ANYTHING can be turned into a weapon if the will to turn into one is there -- from a toothpick to a 737. |
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20 Aug 09 - 05:50 PM (#2704998) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie I knew someone would bring up the missing woman case. I might point out that we don't yet know the end of that story. |
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20 Aug 09 - 05:57 PM (#2705010) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace (Not for Ebbie to read.) You folks are TOO serious. |
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20 Aug 09 - 06:04 PM (#2705017) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Donuel Rapaire, a sharp credit card is hand to hand but a rubber band and a razor blade are lethal within 20 feet. this is my rifle this is my gun this is for fighting this is for fun |
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20 Aug 09 - 06:31 PM (#2705037) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Art Thieme Dorothy Parshall, Your mentioning the mountain lion on the mountain trail reminded me of the time.. ...fresh water porpoises that never died were discovered in Crater Lake some years back. They leaped out of the water and ate seagulls flying through the air. I wanted to catch one of the porpoises to study it. So I hauled a crate of seagulls over a mountain trail to lure one of 'em to captivity. After 2 days trekking in there, I came upon a mountain lion sleeping in the middle of the path. I tiptoed past the sleeping thing and as soon as I got past him the sheriff jumped out to arrest me for transporting gulls across a sedate lion for immortal porpoises! Art Thieme |
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20 Aug 09 - 06:48 PM (#2705056) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Art that was awful and I can't stop laughing ..... terrible .... LOL |
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20 Aug 09 - 06:54 PM (#2705066) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Hahahahahaa... Art... priceless. |
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20 Aug 09 - 06:55 PM (#2705067) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Peace... pussy for pussy? |
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20 Aug 09 - 09:37 PM (#2705141) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee Art, were those underage gulls? |
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21 Aug 09 - 06:23 AM (#2705305) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: theleveller In Britain only certain members of the security forces and a small number of specially-trained police officers are allowed to carry hand guns or automatic weapons. Shotguns and rifles are strictly controlled and licensed. Anyone else is treated as a potential murderer and, if found out, will be arrested and imprisoned or even shot. No law-abiding citizen needs to own or carry a hand gun. If you don't feel safe in public without a gun or if you don't trust your police force to protect you, you should be insisting that your politicians do something about it. Whatever the circumstances, carrying a gun implies that you expect to kill someone and having millions of potential killers wandering around does not make for a civilised society. |
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21 Aug 09 - 08:55 AM (#2705375) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Midchuck In Britain only certain members of the security forces and a small number of specially-trained police officers are allowed to carry hand guns or automatic weapons. Shotguns and rifles are strictly controlled and licensed. Anyone else is treated as a potential murderer and, if found out, will be arrested and imprisoned or even shot. And the violent crime rate in Britain is accelerating, from what I hear. You have to get over the illusion that if something is made illegal, it'll just stop happening. Making stricter criminal laws creates more criminals, not fewer. No law-abiding citizen needs to own or carry a hand gun. Given an environment that is entirely free of violent crime, you're right. But what does "need" have to do with it? No law-abiding citizen NEEDS to own or carry a guitar or fiddle. And definitely not a banjo or bodhran. If you don't feel safe in public without a gun... As I said in an earlier post, I feel quite safe without a gun here in Vermont, where it's perfectly legal to carry one. I don't feel safe without one in the cities, but I'm not allowed to carry one there. I can't help but think that there's a connection. ...or if you don't trust your police force to protect you... But who's going to protect me from my police force? ...you should be insisting that your politicians do something about it... OH, COME ON! Where am I going to get the cash that a politician wants before he'll listen seriously to anyone? Whatever the circumstances, carrying a gun implies that you expect to kill someone... I have fired hundreds and hundreds of rounds through handguns, and I have never in my life killed any living thing with one, larger than whatever worms or bugs were living in the sand bank I was using for a backstop. And I never will unless someone or something is trying to kill me or mine; or I or mine need food really badly. ...and having millions of potential killers wandering around does not make for a civilised society. You're right. It doesn't. That's why we need fewer of the potential killers carrying guns, and more guns carried by rational people who don't wish to use them for anything but practice, but who will use them if needs must. Peter. |
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21 Aug 09 - 09:43 AM (#2705395) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude by the way for those good people who do decided to get a license. The colt .45 is one miserable firearm to carry. It is big heavy and just a miserable gun to conceal. Look at a glock 23 40 caliber or even a sig .380 perfect. I guess that is why the FBI uses the model 23 glock. That is what I use for the twice a year I carry since I sold my custom .45 colt. In the mountains then it is a .44 mag for bears |
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21 Aug 09 - 10:09 AM (#2705408) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee In the mountains it's a 12 gauge slug for bears, fired from a pump shotgun with a "slug barrel" and the magazine plug removed. Grease your .44 magnum so it won't hurt as much when the bear gives it that final shove. Or better still -- a 12 gauge "bird bomb" fired in front so s/he will get the idea s/he isn't wanted there. But load the slugs just in case. A flare from a flare gun will also (usually) turn a bear, but watch out for starting a wild fire. "An armed society is a polite society." |
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21 Aug 09 - 10:14 AM (#2705410) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude can't work a fly rod with the shotgun Mike but you are right the best of all with rifle slugs in it. By the way, I load my own .44 mags. Hot for bears, you don't want to target shoot with that load. Fire it and ya can't hear for days LOL |
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21 Aug 09 - 10:15 AM (#2705411) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Riginslinger "Question: Why Pack Heat?" Some mad geneticist might figure out a way to clone Ronald Reagan! |
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21 Aug 09 - 10:42 AM (#2705426) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Mike if you want to leave the shotgun at home and you are in the mountains, your .44 mag will be fine try this 220 grain MCP bullet a little over 25 grains of Accurate Arms NO. 9 power although I did do near 26 once (not really safe) you will get over 1280 fps which will stop pretty much any bear or anything else but don't target shoot with it ... hard on the gun But you can work a fly rod |
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21 Aug 09 - 10:42 AM (#2705427) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bee-dubya-ell Why carry a gun to town hall meeting? 'Cause you'd probably get arrested for carrying a guitar. |
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21 Aug 09 - 10:50 AM (#2705431) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Stringsinger The purpose of "packing heat" is to intimidate and bully those who don't agree with you. Pure and simple. They believe their interpretation of the Second Amendment trumps the First Amendment. Responsible gun owners do not display their weapons publicly. Frank Hamilton |
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21 Aug 09 - 10:53 AM (#2705432) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Desert Dancer NY Times: Scars Linger After Acts of Self-Defense |
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21 Aug 09 - 11:01 AM (#2705435) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude DD your article is exactly right on track and another that every person should read who owns a firearm. There maybe some people that can use it and sleep at night. I am glad I never had to find out cause it was enough to have to point it. But I would have done what I had to and then deal with the after results to save lives.. Just thankful for me I never had to find out. |
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21 Aug 09 - 11:20 AM (#2705458) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Oh in regard to my last post. I would never draw a weapon unless I had the full intent on using it to save a life. When I took mine out it was with full knowledge that I would most like have to fire it and was fully prepared to do so, there was never any question on my resolve to protect them and myself. Had he been two steps closer I would have pulled the trigger and lived with the results. Unless someone understands that, they should never be a law enforcement officer or apply for a conceal license. It is one of those factors that has to be considered before having a firearm. I really do hate the things. I know one heck of a lot about them but I don't like them. I gave up hunting cause I stopped eating the game I think your article DD is very important. You take on the responsibility for your safety and that of others when you put on one of those things. If you have not thought through all the results you should not own one. When I put my on it is with a prayer that I never have to pull it out. |
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21 Aug 09 - 12:11 PM (#2705502) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bill D Why has this thread deteriorated into ANOTHER debate over "how to kill bears, why own a gun at all, and what are the dangers of shooting... or trying to shoot... holdup men"?? I can debate some of those points, but the original question was about the idea of **open carrying**, since instances of that practice at public political events are in the news lately. I am curious whether anyone even read or took notice of my post above identifying the militia & its organizers who provoked most of these incidents. It seems to me that it is IMPORTANT to realize the relevance of such attitudes and what, if anything, should be done about them. |
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21 Aug 09 - 12:31 PM (#2705523) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude excellent point bill. By the way I like bears never hunted one nor ever would just don't want eaten while fishin ... Crazy people with guns ... that keeps me up at night ... America does need to rethink this stuff logically and make some changes and better enforcement... I don't get it either. by the way again off topic ... you doctors and nurses ... big targets for gangs in large city hospitals. Money, precription drug pads ... walk careful and in a group or wait for security to escort you out I am done with my ramblings again sorry for the thread creep |
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21 Aug 09 - 02:26 PM (#2705599) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: artbrooks Regrettably (IMHO), there isn't much you can do about them. As long as they are obeying local and Federal weapons laws and the weapons they are carrying are legal, there isn't a single thing that says they can't exercise their First Amendment right to free speech while also exercising their Second Amendment right (as currently defined) to "keep and bear arms". Hopefully, local SWAT, FBI and Secret Service officers are keeping close eyes on them as they do so. |
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21 Aug 09 - 02:48 PM (#2705617) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie One (FBI?) entity said that in a crowd they keep an eye on everyone obviously packing, but that if they came inside the hall their weapon would be confiscated. |
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21 Aug 09 - 03:00 PM (#2705624) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Bill D... spot on! As I said, I think open carry (again, we have NO carry, which I agrre with) is just not a logical idea. But, (sorry, Biil) on the subject of bears or any other threat, the choice of weapon has far less than 50% to do with the fact that knowing HOW to use the weapon increases your safety... no need to get technical or graphic... simply put, a thorn in a lion's paw give pause. |
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21 Aug 09 - 03:14 PM (#2705633) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee I can't think of any reason to normally carry anything other than a small pocketknife. I have done so, rarely, and I will not willingly give up the right to do so. But to make a point? Nah, just plain stupid. As I said, it brings you to the attention of the cops. |
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21 Aug 09 - 03:26 PM (#2705649) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Rap... I have taken to carrying a fairly large pocket knife whilst walking my neighbourhood. We have been blessed with new neighbours in the past two years... strip club types and hookers in a few houses who like pit bulls. One of the pit bulls is never leashed. And the city bylaw officers don't have the time to monitor them. I almost was able to pet one a while back. Came into my backyard. But, when I crouched down and tried to get it to come to me, it ran away. |
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21 Aug 09 - 03:26 PM (#2705650) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie Don't take the pocketknife on board a plane, Rap. In Alaska, even the ubiquitous ulu is taboo. |
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21 Aug 09 - 03:27 PM (#2705651) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bill D "As long as they are obeying local and Federal weapons laws...." etc... Then, in my honest opinion, there is a problem with those laws. Surely it is possible to have some sort of uniform national standard about such things. I see that places like Arizona, New Mexico and Texas do not have exactly the same laws, but they DO have "reciprocal agreements" so that someone from Texas can behave in Texas as he would in Arizona...(I'd have to read a LOT more to see exactly how these are arranged.) In New Mexico, someone UNDER 21 can legally buy weapons from an unlicenced dealer. In Virginia, is it about the same, perhaps with a different age requirement. There is little dispute that it is easy for almost anyone to obtain 'almost' any firearm they wish...some legally, some illegally. Now, if someone buys a gun, even illegally, in one state...then goes to ---say Arizona where 'legal carry' is in effect, and straps it on, how long might it be before they are stopped & questioned? I see reports that the Secret Service was 'watching' these guys at the rally for Obama, but I don't see that each one was individually checked & vetted by authorities. This seems to me to be a situation that could easily lead to one where, after a few rounds (no pun intended) of everyone becoming used to seeing pistols and AR-15s at events, a group such as The Viper Militia could ................... (fill in all sorts of things.) You see, the laxness of the laws does MUCH more for those with nefarious goals than it does for law abiding citizens who do NOT take guns to political events. In other realms, (such as operationg motor vehicles)there are all sorts of practices which are forbidden, even though 'some' folks could be trusted to do them safely. Attitudes toward guns are just so suffused with emotional layers that it is VERY difficult to get a totally rational analysis of the issues involved. ...and every day, the number of murders, accidents and threats FAR exceeds the events with positive outcomes like oldude relates.....why are we willing to tolerate so many? |
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21 Aug 09 - 03:33 PM (#2705657) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Bill D... I see that as a VERY disconcerting concern... to have your system of laws so disjointed by state jurisdiction means, as you have indicated, that laws made for one may be subverted by others who don't have the same concerns or circumstances. Troublesome indeed. |
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21 Aug 09 - 03:41 PM (#2705663) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Bill you hit the nail on the head. It is what most of us honest gun owners have been talking about for years. We need a federal carry permit. I would really like to see the standard set that New York uses. It is difficult and should be, and you are checked and checked and checked. However because it varies in so many other states, New York does not accept any other handgun permit. When I moved from PA I asked and was told no way ... PA is pretty easy to get one regrettably so I think. Now PA has agreements between other states. I have a PA permit cause I live on the border. I also have a Florida one. Now that is another issue. Florida has agreements with a pile of states ... It is quite insane actually. The ATF of the federal government really should have a federal carry standard. Now they don't have to take away the states rights, but if you are going to do this interstate thing you should need a federal carry standard and there is none. Heck even the NRA wants one, and I agree with so very little that the NRA says. Not a member , I was once but that was when I was young and stupid. I don't like what it has become frankly |
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21 Aug 09 - 03:52 PM (#2705667) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bill D So..some of those of you who know more than I do, and who have permits and have years of knowlege & experience can also see that something is needed to sort out this mess we have now. I would rather 'suspect' that a few licenced concealed guns are about and in the possession of carefully vetted & trusted folks, than to see these idiots strutting about displaying their interpretation of the 2nd amendment. |
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21 Aug 09 - 04:11 PM (#2705674) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Never was any question of that, Bill. |
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21 Aug 09 - 04:12 PM (#2705677) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu The true question is, if the antigun nuts don't stop being nuts, the gun nuts will win... on accounta, they got guns. |
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21 Aug 09 - 04:15 PM (#2705680) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Oops... not a question... my opinion. Sorry, the pain meds have me looped. |
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21 Aug 09 - 05:25 PM (#2705720) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rumncoke Has anyone else been thinking that in the first message to this thread there is a really odd statement? Now that it is legal to carry guns wherever you go, it reads. I do realise that the writer means in the US and is simply not thinking about the rest of the world - I just think it is really odd that someone who is writing to an international forum would send such a message. Anne Croucher |
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21 Aug 09 - 05:34 PM (#2705726) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Ann mudcat is a US based website with world wide guests. No different than reading specific British issues such as the BNP ... The discussion was on US gun laws Bill The single best thing this country can do to make folks safer with firearms is to get rid of the gun shows. If you want to hunt and go into walmart there is a background check for felony conviction. A felon cannot own anytype of firearm. A gun show, the law doesn't apply no checks ... walk in and walk out ... That should change and change now. That is how most of those creeps holding their AK-47 got the things. Had they gone into a sporting goods store they would probably find a felony or some other restriction. I hate the whole concept ... get rid of it ... it is a loophole that causes more problems than service to a sportsman. they talking heads in washington keep talking about it but the NRA lobby ... oh 2nd admendment ... hell if you are not qualified to have a felony record check and that is it, then you don't belong with a firearm. Common sense safety for others. |
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21 Aug 09 - 05:43 PM (#2705730) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie "Now that it is legal to carry guns wherever you go, it reads. "I do realise that the writer means in the US and is simply not thinking about the rest of the world - I just think it is really odd that someone who is writing to an international forum would send such a message." Anne Croucher Well, E x c u s e Me! :) (Good point, though, and I apologize.) |
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21 Aug 09 - 05:44 PM (#2705732) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bill D I'm gettin' suspicious *grin*...you're making too much sense, olddude. |
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21 Aug 09 - 05:48 PM (#2705734) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie Hey! Apology withdrawn. We'll just have to live with it, I guess. :) Look at this, which one of you'rn (Royston) wrote : For anyone interested in a tangible action against the fascist menace of the BNP, I urge you to join in the protest against them at their "Red, White & Blue" rally in Codnor, Derbyshire on 15 August. "Unite Against Fascism Have called for a mass demonstration at the village of Codnor in which the hardcore rag-tag bunch of racists and Nazis will be effectively "Kettled" in their lonely field of shame. "The demonstration will be civil, peaceful. It has the consent of the local authorities and Derbyshire Police. Get the A5 FLYER "Coaches have been booked from around the country - for a list of embarkation points and contact numbers for booking of places, go to COACHES "Or make your own way to Codnor with a view to assembling at 09:00 on 15 August 2009. "Check the Unite Against Fascism Website for updates." |
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21 Aug 09 - 05:50 PM (#2705736) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: The Fooles Troupe Don't you have to Pack Heat to get Canned heat? :-P |
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21 Aug 09 - 06:42 PM (#2705760) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Bill we are not all nut jobs honest :-) for every sportsman I know it truly is a tool for hunting or protection. I own a lot ... mostly cause my family dies off and leaves them to me. I know a crap load about every one of them, I can repair cast my own bullets reload my own etc ... I really don't like them, I used them to hunt , target shoot and protect ... I also own several chain saws .. hate them also but they are tools that I use. Some people live and breathe these things and that is scary ... mostly only the people that should not have them .. Every serious hunter I know has them to hunt nothing more ... like when we talk about guitars. I know of no hunter or sportsman that gets upset waiting 4 hours for clearance before taking their new shotgun home ... A gun show, if you are a felon, plop down the money and take it home we don't care .. scary stuff actually |
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21 Aug 09 - 06:50 PM (#2705765) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Riginslinger "Don't you have to Pack Heat to get Canned heat?" If you get canned and pack heat they call it going postal! |
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21 Aug 09 - 07:02 PM (#2705774) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu "waiting 4 hours for clearance"... 4 weeks to four months here. |
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21 Aug 09 - 07:12 PM (#2705777) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude I keep saying it is my final comment and keep rambling on. It really is to give people the real information about gun owners and sportsmen. When you see what I wrote about the power mix etc .. most people think wow what gun nuts who know all these things. Not the case. A real hunter does not go out to wound a deer or an elk. They go out hunting to take it home and eat it ... no true hunter will take a stupid shot only to wound something. In order to be a good hunter, you have to completely understand ballistics and powders and bullet casts and velocity. If you don't you will only wound the animal and that is cruel. Serious hunters are responsible very responsible people. The NRA was supposed to be about the sportsman, about protecting the right to hunt and own a firearms. But they are more about power and about politics. Even when the law makes sense they will fight it ... they do not represent the true sportsman. And even though I do not like firearms, I am an expert with them and certified instructor. I sometimes still do handgun training classes for the sheriff dept. Write your senators and congressmen and get rid of the gun shows. Thats what I did Thanks for putting up with my rambling |
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21 Aug 09 - 07:19 PM (#2705780) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: John P Why does everyone always say we have a constitutional right to bear arms? If the second amendment gives us that, what does that pesky "well-regulated militia" phrase mean, and why is it there? Mind you, I'm not saying no one should have guns. I'm divided on that question. But the Constitution doesn't say or really even imply that any individual has a constitutional right to carry a gun around. One would have to ignore a sizable piece of the wording to reach that conclusion. |
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21 Aug 09 - 07:28 PM (#2705789) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee I have, from the first, been in favor of a national "concealed carry law." Root out the whackos and require a renewal check as thorough as the original. Frankly, gun talk bores me (sorry, no pun was intended): I've ordered a new-in-the-box target rifle -- Kimber of Oregon, man. It's got an MOA of 1/5 inch at 100 yards and a 1 in 16 righthand twist and a 10-insert globe front with a micrometer rear. Model 82, ya know. Talking about ammunition gets worse.... |
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21 Aug 09 - 07:44 PM (#2705804) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: artbrooks JohnP, the basic problem with understanding the real intent of the Second Amendment is, as you say, the "militia clause". The Supreme Court has looked at the Amendment exactly twice in the past 200 years or so. Miller (1939) relied entirely on the militia clause, and basically said that no self respecting soldier would carry a sawed-off shotgun. Heller (2008) focused on individual self-defense and said that the militia clause is essentially a separate issue. Neither decision (and there is no third one) really attempts to parse the weird collection of commas, and dependent and independent clauses that make up the Amendment. What did it mean in 1791, and does it/should it mean something else today? The jury is still out. |
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21 Aug 09 - 07:50 PM (#2705807) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu ..."4 weeks to four months here." And, the forms and picture ID are detailed. If you are married, your spouse has to sign off... and so on. Good precautions... But, if the economy was better, health care was better, peeps had a roof and a full belly, maybe "carry laws" could be past... ? |
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21 Aug 09 - 08:09 PM (#2705815) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Art... I have said this many times, and I know it doesn't sit well with many... Freedom was gained by the poor masses thru the barrel of a gun. It's history... over and over. To deny any individual the right to defend themself with a gun or any other weapon is to deny freedom and safety. To say any defense should be denied beacause some may use that right to be offensive is illogical. After all, we are talking about defense. Those who are in offense must be liable under law. And if not under law, liable to defense by whatever means. I know it sounds a bit silly and simplistic, but it's in the news every day. The guns are not the problem. Nuts are... on both sides of the issue. |
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21 Aug 09 - 08:24 PM (#2705822) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bobert Problem is that there are very few people out there, gn-zer, who are all that fanatical on the gun control side... I don't hear folks saying that guns should be outlawed... That would be an extreme position... What I do hear from the NRA side is that society has no right to register guns or require that only sane and trained people own them... That is not unreasonable... Wackos and folks who have no clue about gun safety should not be able to own them... That is not an extreme position... That is a very reasonable position... B~ |
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21 Aug 09 - 08:53 PM (#2705841) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: pdq [about the US Constitution} "What did it mean in 1791, and does it/should it mean something else today? The jury is still out. No it isn't. Most [probably all] of the founders who gave us the Constitution were gun owners. That shows exactly what they meant. Individual citizens have a constitutional right to own personal firearms. Everyone agrees that minor restrictions are allowed. The firearm must be "reasonable". A bazooka in private hands is not "reasonable". In 1934, automatic weapons were deamed "not reasonable". |
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21 Aug 09 - 09:01 PM (#2705847) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude bob a lot of what they do is good, their safety training is first class. The hunter safety courses and shooting courses for beginners are nothing short of outstanding with the best certified instructors. I am a former one myself . The gun shows is one real issue. another teflon coated bullets that pierce a police vest. Some things like that really puzzle me with them. I know they say if you let one thing slide then soon all will be outlawed. I don't think that is really true. We outlaw machine guns and a lot of things but still have the 2nd Amendment. I think the politics and big money has gotten to them |
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21 Aug 09 - 10:04 PM (#2705869) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: artbrooks pdq, when 2 iterations of the Supreme Court disagree (or at least say different things), I think that my statement is very apropos. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion. Who brought up automatic weapons, anyway? |
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21 Aug 09 - 10:53 PM (#2705892) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bill D One-more-time In the 1790s, the **Militia** needed to defend the country HAD to have their own guns. There was no standard issue firearm to be issued. There was still a LOT of wilderness and many people needed to both hunt and defend themselves against things like bears. When a call for assembling the Militia was sent out, folks HAD to have their own guns. The Founders never dreamed of either the weaponry or the situations we have today, yet those who cherish their guns still want to 'interpret' the 2nd amendment as if it were still 1790 and England & Spain were still expected to sail up the Hudson and try to take the country. This situation continued until the general time of the Civil War & after, when guns were being 'produced' by companies and rapidly improved. After about 1890, when the native tribes were not a threat and people were congregating in cities, the 'need' for firearms was largely perceptual. It is DIFFERENT today....very few citizens 'need' firearms, and almost none need AR-15s or handguns with large magazines. |
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21 Aug 09 - 11:16 PM (#2705901) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace The US has believed too much of what Hollywood produced. Hard not to. |
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22 Aug 09 - 12:39 AM (#2705940) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace One of the reasons might be that the cops have been trained and who knows if the citizens have. A cop holding a gun on ya is no joke. But a citizen who may or may not have it on safe is a different thing, imo. |
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22 Aug 09 - 01:26 AM (#2705952) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: The Fooles Troupe "You keep guns to keep the government honest. Simple as that. The guns at the political events are a welcomed sight. Governments need to be reminded that they serve the people, not rule them. A gun makes that statement more eloquently than any orator could." As a citizen of a country other than the USA, that is a hysterically funny statement! :-) I know of few countries with a meek compliant population more brainwashed by their government, and incidentally also by big business (perhaps even more so!) !!! |
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22 Aug 09 - 01:35 AM (#2705955) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace Why pack heat? Lemme tell ya. |
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22 Aug 09 - 10:16 AM (#2706124) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: pdq "After about 1890, when the native tribes were not a threat and people were congregating in cities, the 'need' for firearms was largely perceptual. ~ Bill D To say that the public needed firearems from 1790-1880 and not now is pure opinion. Please look up the meaning of "right" and "need". I yoiu don't like what is in the Constitution, start the process to change it. If only 20% of the people support your efforts, give it a rest. |
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22 Aug 09 - 03:49 PM (#2706318) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bill D "To say that the public needed firearems from 1790-1880 and not now is pure opinion." As is your own statement. I repeat that 'need' as relates to guns has changed in 250 years. I have as much 'right' to state my opinion as folks have to own guns, whether or not there is much chance of changing the Constitution with the NRA spending millions to keep it as it is. |
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22 Aug 09 - 10:04 PM (#2706366) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee Ah, Bruce, in the US if a cop is holding you at gunpoint his gun ain't on "safe." Although these days it's as likely to be a Taser as a gun. |
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23 Aug 09 - 12:41 AM (#2706411) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude no it is not on safe if the threat was severe enough for him to draw the weapon it is ready to go ... by the way a Glock which most carry today have no external safety, the safety is the way the trigger is designed, it takes a deliberate pull to discharge but the gun has no external safety feature it is all built into the trigger. There is a small catch on the trigger that engages to discharge the weapon but it takes a deliberate finger pull not something just catching on it accidentally. Pretty neat design actually. |
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23 Aug 09 - 12:54 AM (#2706413) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude the theory is that in times of extreme stress fumbling with the external safety officers have discharged the weapon when they were not ready. With a Glock that cannot happen since the trigger is the safety. It is a good design but requires training. I carry a Glock due to its light weight but I still liked the external safety that a colt had. The cocked and locked worked for 90 years. Without proper training people have shot themselves in the leg by holstering the gun and having their finger on the trigger when they do it ... never touch any trigger unless you are going to shoot but officers have forgot that rule. With a glock it even more of a rule. One of the NFL guys Burris just found that out, carried an illegal weapon in New York and just got 2 years in prison for having an illegal weapon ... shot himself in the leg ... yup a glock ... too bad huh ... had no legal right to have it and no training on it either. He deserved what he got |
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23 Aug 09 - 01:05 AM (#2706415) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude most modern weapons today for handguns don't have external safe on them. The glock uses the trigger, more common is a double action semi auto. With that the first round on the trigger pull is about the same as a revolver. Usually 3+ lb pull to discharge the first round. Subsequent rounds are then typical semi-auto pull like half that. The safety is the strength of the trigger pull like on a revolver ... me the glock design is safer but the cocked and locked is the best overall. You can drop that off a building and it will not discharge. I know too much info but you asked |
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23 Aug 09 - 01:34 AM (#2706418) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude and if I were granted one wish in the thing we call life, it would be that we could take everyone ever made and throw it in the deepest trench of the ocean never to be seen again .. wish that was the case in the world |
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23 Aug 09 - 09:40 AM (#2706571) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: 3refs I fired a 9mm semi-auto pistol(European something)that had a lever on the back of the grip that had to be depressed to fire. It was separate from the trigger lock and a pain in the ass. The way I gripped the the pistol made holding in the lever difficult. I'd still like to give one of those .600 Nitro Expresses a go! |
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23 Aug 09 - 09:51 AM (#2706582) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Stringsinger Anyone who carries a gun to a town hall meeting is a kind of terrorist. The purpose of sporting a weapon at a political rally is sheer intimidation and bullying. The people who bring guns to political rallies should be arrested. The Second Amendment did not give anyone permission to do this. Where are the police here? Frank |
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23 Aug 09 - 10:10 AM (#2706598) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Bill D The police are waiting to see how this all develops. As long as no one actually threatened anyone, they don't want to get into court cases over whether arresting someone or confiscating theit weapons in an "open carry" state was legal or not. The militias probably HOPED for such a confrontation and a favorable court outcome. Sad, but that's how it is until the laws are made sensible. |
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23 Aug 09 - 11:25 AM (#2706629) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: SharonA "Why pack heat?" To store it until winter, of course. I sure could use some of this 90-plus-degree weather come next February. I'm gonna need a LOT of insulated pizza boxes... |
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23 Aug 09 - 12:05 PM (#2706651) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie "The purpose of sporting a weapon at a political rally is sheer intimidation and bullying." Stringsinger (love that name!) That is the only reason I can think of for open carrying at that kind of event. Concealed carry is more logical. If the person packing claims that he/she is doing it to avoid trouble when it erupts that is the only way that makes sense. Open carry in a crowd of enemies is a challenge, a dare, an invitation. |
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23 Aug 09 - 12:15 PM (#2706660) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee I have friends on the local police force AND the state cops, but I don't try to call attention to myself when they're on duty...ESPECIALLY with regard to a weapon. "If carrying a gun makes you feel nine feet tall and covered with hair, you shouldn't be carrying one." |
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23 Aug 09 - 12:38 PM (#2706677) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie Here are some snippets from a Leonard Pitts Jr column. "Our story so far: Last year, Barack Obama was elected president, the first American of African heritage ever to reach that office. If this was regarded as a new beginning by most Americans, it was regarded apocalyptically by others who promptly proceeded to lose both their minds and any pretense of enlightenment. "These are the people who immediately declared it their fervent hope that the new presidency fail, the ones who cheered when the governor of Texas raised the specter of secession, the ones who went online to rechristen the executive mansion the "Black" House, and to picture it with a watermelon patch out front. "On tax day they were the ones who, having apparently just discovered the grim tidings April 15 brings us all each year, launched angry, unruly protests. In the debate over health-care reform, they are the ones who have disrupted town hall meetings, shouting about the president's supposed plan for "death panels" to euthanize the elderly. "Now, they are the ones bringing firearms to places the president is speaking." ************************** "These are strange times. They call to mind what historian Henry Adams said in the mid-1800s: "There are grave doubts at the hugeness of the land and whether one government can comprehend the whole." "Adams spoke in geographical terms of a nation rapidly expanding toward the Pacific. Our challenge is less geographical than spiritual, less a question of the distance between Honolulu and New York than between you and the person right next to you. Such as when you look at a guy who thought it a good idea to bring a "gun" to a presidential speech and find yourself stunned by incomprehension. On paper, he is your fellow American, but you absolutely do not know him, recognize nothing of yourself in him. You keep asking yourself: Who "is" this guy? ***************************** W"e frame the differences in terms of "conservative" and "liberal," but these are tired old markers that with overuse and misuse have largely lost whatever meaning they used to have and with it, any ability to explain us to us. This isn't liberal vs. conservative, it is yesterday vs. tomorrow, the stress of profound cultural and demographic changes that will leave none of us as we were. "Round and round we go and where we stop, nobody knows. And it is an open question, as it was for Henry Adams, what kind of country we'll have when it's done. "Can" one government comprehend the whole? It may be harder to answer now than it was then. "The distances that divide us cannot be measured in miles." Divded We Fall |
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23 Aug 09 - 01:02 PM (#2706695) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: wysiwyg I packed heat one day when driving to a consulting gig through a known serial-killer freeway zone-- bodies had been piling up. I was concerned about being targeted if I had car trouble-- and this was WAY before cell phones. But it made for some pretty interesting gyrations of logic when I arrived at the preschool for the gig.....("NOW what do I do with it?!?!?!?!") The hosting administrator, fortunately, found the conundrum as hilarious as I did, and provided a secure storage location for the unloaded item and, elsewhere, the ammo. ~Susan |
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23 Aug 09 - 01:19 PM (#2706706) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude One great Supreme Court Justice once said that freedom of speech does not give a person the right to yell fire in a crowed room. so with the 2nd Amendment do they have the right to branish a weapon in public. Well No they shouldn't it depends on what state you live in and what the corresponding law (if any is), just like the freedom of speech argument. The only reason to display a firearm at such an event is to instill fear, to intimidate .. all of which has nothing to do with firearm ownership or lawful carry. no honest 2nd Amendment supporting citizen thinks it is ok to do this. A weapon is for hunting, for target shooting, for protection in cases of life and death. The law needs refined and adjusted to deal with this stuff and now. In many states they would be arrested. Again many such displays are not federal violations but state violation and it depends on the state you live it if you even broke a law. Clearly they did not and that is a very sad thing indeed .. |
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23 Aug 09 - 01:25 PM (#2706712) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude and the term branish is to display a weapon for the sole purpose of instilling fear by most state definitions. If a weapon is pointed at someone however it is reckless endangerment unless the cause is self defense |
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23 Aug 09 - 01:53 PM (#2706733) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: robomatic I have never packed heat. I've traveled more than once in the Alaska outdoors with people who did, and the reason was we were in bear country. As for self-protection reasons, I've weighed the pros and cons and it took less than a second for the cons to outweigh the pros. A weapon would have to be kept track of all the time, there was no guarantee it wouldn't make a situation worse instead of better, etc. But as for why other folks carry weapons, I can quote a friend I met while on the road. "If I'm in my tent and I look out and see someone doing something to my bike, I don't want to say "pretty please, mister, leggo my stuff", I wanna be able say "bud, stop in yer tracks or I'll blow your head off!" |
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23 Aug 09 - 02:06 PM (#2706740) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Ebbie And if he turns around with a gun in his hand, robo? I do understand what you are saying, though. |
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23 Aug 09 - 02:09 PM (#2706745) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude In most cases the cons will outweigh the pro's for sure. Especially if you have a house with small children. I would disassemble for cleaning pull the slides off and lock everything up in the safe when mine were small. I also had locked trigger guards on all rifles with the bolts out and in the safe. I do not recommend carry to people. It is a personal decision and one that better we well thought out. But if they do decide they have to do it the correct way for safety reasons. Owning any firearm comes great responsibility. Don't care if it is a hand gun or shotgun for hunting. For most people the decision to avoid completely is the proper one. |
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23 Aug 09 - 02:41 PM (#2706770) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: gnu Trigger guards/locks... We were an hour back in the truck in frosty weather on sandy/clay roads (that is, no going home until LATE in the day - if we had, no going back in) at 6:30AM when my buddy freaked out. He did not have the key for his trigger lock. From the back seat came the voice of his son, 14 years old, "Chill out, Dad. No problem." We gave each other that look and said nothing. A minute later, the lad proudly displayed the lock... that is when my buddy REALLY freaked out. Trigger locks ain't worth a darn. They are actually a safety HAZARD and I would like to see them banned. Best to do like Dan did. |
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23 Aug 09 - 06:55 PM (#2706929) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee The decision to carry a weapon, any weapon, is an individual one (although everyone carries potential weapons) regardless of the reason it is made (hunting, target shooting, etc.). That decision is literally one of life or death. YOU are taking into your hands the power to take the life of another living being -- it's not the cop on the corner, not the soldier in the mountains -- it's YOU. You must be responsible for the use made of that weapon. You must be sure that it is used correctly and safely. If the use you make of it goes awry, you are at fault even if no one is injured or killed. The decision to go armed, whether with a sword, a knife, a gun, a garrotte, a blackjack, a cane, a slung shot, or just your hands and feet is yours. You make it and you take the responsibility for that decision. I hope you make the correct choice -- for you. |
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24 Aug 09 - 11:19 PM (#2707816) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: wysiwyg Some heat is... essential to progress: RUN THE HEATER? ~S~ |
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25 Aug 09 - 12:07 AM (#2707837) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude ah Joe can we close this thread now |
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25 Aug 09 - 12:42 AM (#2707852) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Donuel Gursh! pakin heet knda makes me feel all grode up and stuff. I reely lick them bullits tht xsplod on impack jus lick a arteillry, artellary... you know a cannon shell. Beets them hooler poits all ta hell. |
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25 Aug 09 - 02:06 AM (#2707863) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Joe Offer People who carry guns scare the shit out of me, especially when they point the damn things at me. It happened only once, but I think I was right to be a bit scared. He was afraid I was some bad guy, even though I came to his house with an appointment and carried a badge. I convinced him I was harmless and got my business accomplished. But why was it right for him to point a gun at me? -Joe- |
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25 Aug 09 - 07:32 AM (#2707991) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: olddude Joe somehow I cannot see you showing up at his house in the wee hours carrying a knife and sneaking in the window ... for that is the only just cause for pointing a weapon at you ... some people a way quick to pull it out. None that I know but their are those who will |
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25 Aug 09 - 04:41 PM (#2708404) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Rapparee Joe, why didn't you have him cited? You were an officer in line of duty. |
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25 Aug 09 - 04:58 PM (#2708416) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Peace I interrupted a drug deal outside an ol' girlfriend's place in Montreal many years back. The gun was a .25 Beretta or a .32, don't know which. It was a very uncomfortable feeling. Even if I had been carrying, there's no way I could have accessed a weapon in time to be able to 'do' anything (in this case, anyone). Guns by definition are offensive weapons. I smiled, said I didn't see shit and walked back up about seven steps into her house--which I'd just left. Had a real eerie feeling along my spine. Longest seven steps I ever took. Guns can escalate situations that would never have got to that point without the gun being there. The old 'rule' about never pointing a firearm at anything you don't intend to kill is a good rule. Most people do not have 'what it takes' (a good thing imo) to actually kill someone. Subsequently, don't carry, because if you are not prepared to pull the trigger you'll end up being shot with your own weapon. That's the way I see it. Not looking for arguments or sermons. |
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25 Aug 09 - 05:44 PM (#2708471) Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat? From: Stringsinger Once again, the answer is simple. People carry guns to town hall meetings to intimidate others. They are little fascists. Time for a new topic. Frank |
