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27 Aug 09 - 01:51 PM (#2709977) Subject: BS: Sheehan returns From: GUEST,beardedbruce Good to know that she will bother presidents of EITHER party. "Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama Aug 27 01:27 PM US/Eastern After spending weeks dogging George W. Bush's presidential vacations, anti-war protester Cindy Sheehan is now trying to make life uncomfortable for President Barack Obama. Sheehan used to pitch a peace camp near Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, becoming a symbol of the anti-war movement after her son Casey died in action in Iraq. On Thursday, she and a band of anti-war protesters turned up outside the media center used by journalists covering Obama's vacation on the well-heeled east coast resort island of Martha's Vineyard. "The reason I am here is because ... even though the facade has changed in Washington DC, the policies are still the same," Sheehan told a handful of journalists, against a backdrop of her "Camp Casey" banner. She told US peace activists to wake up and protest Obama's escalation of the war in Afghanistan, and complained that despite the president's anti-war stance, US troops remained in Iraq. "We have to realize, it is not the president who is power, it is not the party that is in power it is the system that stays the same, no matter who is in charge." "We are here to make the wars unpopular again," she said. " |
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27 Aug 09 - 02:51 PM (#2710021) Subject: RE: BS: Sheehan returns From: akenaton Little Hawk and a few others here have been saying just that for a purdy long time! Good on Cindy tho' |
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27 Aug 09 - 02:55 PM (#2710022) Subject: RE: BS: Sheehan returns From: CarolC We need people like Cindy to put pressure even on Obama to do what's right. I'm glad he's the president and not McCain (or Bush or Cheney), but he's definitely no Kucinich. |
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27 Aug 09 - 03:05 PM (#2710028) Subject: RE: BS: Sheehan returns From: Ebbie bb, the point you frequently miss is that Truth is not partisan. |
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27 Aug 09 - 04:21 PM (#2710103) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Don Firth "Truth is not partisan." Should be written across the sky in letters of fire and left there permanently. Don Firth P. S. Ebbie, may I quote you? A lot? |
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27 Aug 09 - 04:22 PM (#2710104) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Genie I spent an evening with Cindy recently and found, to my great disappointment, that she was ready to totally diss and disown Obama -- pretty much saying he was no different from Dubya -- way before he showed signs of waffling or selling out on health care reform or other major domestic issues. We parted amicably, with a hug, but I could see she was pretty much akin to Ralph Nader in being willing to make the perfect the enemy of the good. Idealism v. pragmatism. I would love it if we could have a President and Congress who thought like Dennis Kucinich, but I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that that can happen. That sort of movement has to start at the local level (e.g, city council, mayors, state legislatures) and work up. You don't get there by withdrawing support from a President or Senator or Governor who shares SOME of your goals and values and thereby helping to elect someone who shares virtually NONE of them. I do wish, and dare hope, that Obama will, like FDR, start behaving like an actual populist, progressive liberal as his administration continues. And I think we do need to let him know that he MUST do that if we supporters are to continue to work for him with the energy, zeal, and organization that we had before the 2008 election. But to say that we will vote for a 3rd-party candidate, vote Republican, or stay home from the polls next time if he continues to be more like Bill Clinton than either Teddy or Franklin Roosevelt, well, that's either an idle threat or just plain self-defeating. |
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27 Aug 09 - 04:28 PM (#2710113) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: CarolC He needs to be pressured to do the right thing. He has even said so himself. If he doesn't get pressure from the grass roots, all of the pressure on him will be coming from the corporate fat cats, and they will be very difficult to ignore. He wants pressure from the grass roots, because he needs to be able to say that he is beholden to those who elected him in the first place. |
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27 Aug 09 - 04:30 PM (#2710115) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Ebbie Of course, Don! It is something we should all keep in mind. There are people - not naming names, bb :)- who assume that even ethical people support only their own side and refuse to acknowledge truth, when we recognize it, from whatever source. "A good man's not always right nor a bad one always wrong" |
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27 Aug 09 - 04:31 PM (#2710117) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: akenaton I don't think Mr Obama shares any of Dennis's goals or values; and pragmatism killed Cindy's son. |
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27 Aug 09 - 04:49 PM (#2710138) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Stringsinger Cindy is consistent. Obama is not. Dennis is also consistent. It's not too late for Obama to turn his promises into actuality. He risks being thought of as a political deceiver. |
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27 Aug 09 - 04:53 PM (#2710142) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: GUEST,beardedbruce Ebbie, It appears that many here would not agree with you- they approve of Obama in circumstances that they criticised Bush for. Same actions, but completely political response. Why was it that Truth WAS partisen when it was Bush in the White House? |
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27 Aug 09 - 05:02 PM (#2710149) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Ebbie Bruce, if you really believe that, your own sense of truth is somewhat skewed, imo. From time to time someone here acknowledged that Bush had made a right move but you may remember his 'right moves' came late in his tenure, and almost always only under severe duress. That does not make for switching allegiances, or even for admiration. |
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27 Aug 09 - 05:24 PM (#2710156) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Genie It was not well-intentioned pragmatism that killed Casey Sheehan, it was greed and lust for political power, absent any real regard for human life. Obama may be following Dubya's precent in way too many ways -- and I think he is, so far -- but he is not doing that in all regards and it's both unfair and, I think, unwise to say that there is no difference. The Bush administration instituted many policies that not even the middle-of-the-road, triangulating, soft-on-international corporations Clinton administration would have approved of. Bush may have been consistent too, but IMO he was consistently on the wrong side of the issues. Cindy and Dennis and Ralph may be consistent but neither will ever be President, and I doubt that Dennis could ever even be elected to the Senate as long as our "mainstream media" are so dominated by big money. Cindy Sheehan might well have been elected to Congress had she run against a weaker incumbent, preferably a Republican or a "blue dog Democrat," or for an open seat. But when she ran against Pelosi, it was an exercise in futility and IMO a waste of the money and time of her supporters. And trying to get Obama defeated in 2012 or the Congress taken over again by the Republicans in 2010 just because you're disappointed in Obama and the Democratic-dominated Congress is likely to result in another 8 years or more like the Bush-Cheney years. |
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27 Aug 09 - 05:29 PM (#2710161) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: katlaughing It would be so nice if all of the Obama-smashers would remember it is CONGRESS which changes things by law AND, he has only been in office a few months. |
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27 Aug 09 - 05:59 PM (#2710183) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk Right on, Ebbie! Truth, as you say, is not partisan. But people here who are willing to compromise their past committments on specific issues and support Obama even when he fails to live up to those past committments...just because he's Obama, and they voted for him.... Well, those people should also remember that Truth is not partisan. I am quite disappointed with what Obama has done so far. I still like him quite well as a person, but I feel that he is failing to deliver on the genuine change he promised...and I wonder why. Is it because he can't face down the existing power elite? That's quite likely. Or is it because he is in service TO them? That's a distinct possibility too. Those are the crucial questions. I think Cindy Sheehan is right in what she's doing. I think Dennis Kucinich is right in what he's doing. |
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27 Aug 09 - 06:30 PM (#2710209) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Don Firth Just a little historical note or two for anybody's amusement and amazement: When Clinton wanted to integrate the armed forces as far as gays and lesbians were concerned, he walked into a meeting with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, all of whom had their heels dug in with no intention of giving an inch. Clinton started off by asking, "How hard are you fellows going to fight me on this?" The result, after many hours of cussing and discussing, was "Don't ask, don't tell," which is neither fish nor fowl. Under similar circumstances, when Harry Truman wanted to racially integrate the armed forces, he walked into a meeting with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, all of whom had their heels dug in with no intention of giving an inch. Truman, as Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, simply issued an executive order, turned on his heel, and walked back out of the room, leaving the generals and admirals with their mouths open, but with a clear idea of what their orders were. Now, a lot of people hated Truman's guts, but within the Constitutional limits of his presidency, he, by God, was a President!! Don Firth |
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27 Aug 09 - 07:46 PM (#2710253) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk Yes, Harry Truman really had guts. No doubt about it. So did John Kennedy. |
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27 Aug 09 - 08:57 PM (#2710290) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Stilly River Sage He needs to be pressured to do the right thing. Considering the colossal mess the place was in when Dubya left the building, he's come a long way. But there are a few things I wish he'd just do by proclamation and get them over with. Like get rid of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," just say "there are gays in the military. Live with it." SRS |
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27 Aug 09 - 09:19 PM (#2710305) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Genie Little Hawk, I agree that Dennis Kucinich is right in what he is doing. Unlike Cindy Sheehan, I don't hear him calling out for us to abandon Barack Obama and support a third party (or stay home) in the next election. He is open about his disagreements with Obama but apparently not ready to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water. You say "I am quite disappointed with what Obama has done so far. I still like him quite well as a person, but I feel that he is failing to deliver on the genuine change he promised...and I wonder why. Is it because he can't face down the existing power elite? That's quite likely. Or is it because he is in service TO them? That's a distinct possibility too. Those are the crucial questions." I agree, those are crucial questions. And I fear that a lot of the answer lies in the stranglehold that the huge multinational corporations have over our election process and our media. Even now, as Obama is playing "centrist" and trying futilely for "bipartisan" support for legislation, the media (with the exception of a very few talk radio shows and MSNBC TV shows) are echoing and reinforcing the absurd notion that the right wingers are justified in calling him a "liberal" and perhaps even "an extreme liberal" and maybe even a "socialist." Can you imagine how they will skewer him if and when he actually ACTS like a liberal? Our politicians can't even get elected to the House of Representatives without spending half their time fundraising, and if the big corporations (e.g., oil, agriculture, pharmaceutical, insurance, tobacco) not only withdraw their support but put their millions or billions to work destroying a candidate. Obama never did have much of a honeymoon with the media, and it gets worse by the week. E.g., when they report that "Obama's popularity is plunging," a) they make it sound like his approval rating is near that of Dubya's in 2008 (when it's still a little over 50% in a very divided country), and b) they often subtly insinuate that his loss of support is due to his being too far left (when a lot of his loss of support is for the opposite reason). The media give major, generally uncritical, air time to the looney loudmouths who set out to prevent dialogue in the Democrats' town halls and even to the scarier thugs who are stirring up the public toward violence (e.g, bringing semi-assault weapons to within range of the President or spewing rhetoric that portrays this very moderate Democrat as some sort of despot deserving of assassination). I don't know what all is going on, but I do know that Obama is having a hard enough time herding the 'cats' in the Democratic Party to support even moderate social and financial reforms. If he really digs his heels in and goes for true progressive policies, will he have a chance to persuade Congress and the people, or will the media mask and distort his messsage so as to sabotage the effort? I would say, though, that I think he (as well as Pelosi, Reed, etc.) need to brush up on their skill at bargaining. You don't strike a very good deal when you present your final offer as your opening bid. You're bound to end up with no deal or one where you get way less than half a loaf. G |
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27 Aug 09 - 09:24 PM (#2710307) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Genie Oh, and Don, I do wish Obama would take a lesson from both FDR and Harry Truman. Of course, the press didn't much like Truman either -- but we didn't have 24-hour political talk radio, much less 24-hour partisan TV news commentary, back then. I hope he will do it. But if and when he does, he very well may face either physically or assassination or at least politically. Our world is very different from the way it was in 40 or more years ago. |
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27 Aug 09 - 09:32 PM (#2710313) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: kendall I am against the war in Iraq and in Afghanistan. They want us out of their countries and they will continue to hit us until we leave. We would do no less. |
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27 Aug 09 - 09:41 PM (#2710321) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Genie I agree, Kendall. Afghanistan may well sink Obama's Presidency the way Viet Nam sank LBJ's. |
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27 Aug 09 - 10:54 PM (#2710342) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Rapparee I'm in favor of cutting Obama some slack -- enough to get things done, fer chrissakes. The US didn't get into the mess it's in overnight or even in eight months, and it's not going to be fixed in the "First Hundred Days" -- or even in the Third or Fifth. There are so MANY issues right now he MUST set priorities. Things like gay marriage, gun control reform, and similar things HAVE to take a back seat to getting people working, getting people needed medical care at a reasonable price, doing SOMETHING about US education, rebuilding the good name of the US abroad, getting the national debt under control, etc. Or have we become too much a nation of instant gratification to see that? |
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27 Aug 09 - 11:09 PM (#2710351) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Amos HEar, hear Rapaire. He's good at not getting unduly frazzled by stupid media faddery, but it is irritating to see the weird jackals howl so early in the day. A |
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27 Aug 09 - 11:18 PM (#2710354) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Ebbie "I am quite disappointed with what Obama has done so far. I still like him quite well as a person, but I feel that he is failing to deliver on the genuine change he promised...and I wonder why. Is it because he can't face down the existing power elite? That's quite likely. Or is it because he is in service TO them? That's a distinct possibility too." Little Hawk "Considering the colossal mess the place was in when Dubya left the building, he's come a long way." Sage "I agree, those are crucial questions. And I fear that a lot of the answer lies in the stranglehold that the huge multinational corporations have over our election process and our media. " Genie, in answer to LH "I'm in favor of cutting Obama some slack -- enough to get things done, fer chrissakes. "The US didn't get into the mess it's in overnight or even in eight months, and it's not going to be fixed in the "First Hundred Days" -- or even in the Third or Fifth. "There are so MANY issues right now he MUST set priorities. Things like gay marriage, gun control reform, and similar things HAVE to take a back seat to getting people working, getting people needed medical care at a reasonable price, doing SOMETHING about US education, rebuilding the good name of the US abroad, getting the national debt under control, etc. "Or have we become too much a nation of instant gratification to see that? " Rapaire Re-read these snippets and ALL of Rap's post, Little Hawk, if you are looking for a little more light. I am dumbfounded at how you, LH, and some others talk about this country- the Oligarchy, the threat of those who don't comply being 'taken out', the acceptance of the idea that the Powers are willing to kill at will- and then you, and some others, complain that he doesn't get things done fast enough. I'm not willing to accede to the fantasy that our powers are so totally corrupted and crooked and murderous as you would have it but if you are correct, has it occurred to you that Obama may be just a little smarter than you? Can see just a little farther ahead than you? If you are correct - and again I don't concede that - then any leader in the know is aware that he/she is walking a tightrope. And you complain that he isn't getting things done fast enough? For shame. |
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27 Aug 09 - 11:33 PM (#2710361) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Peace This is also worth a second read, imo: "It would be so nice if all of the Obama-smashers would remember it is CONGRESS which changes things by law AND, he has only been in office a few months." |
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28 Aug 09 - 01:55 AM (#2710411) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Barry Finn Obama needs to know he has the support of the people if he's to end this war. Without the support in matters that count, the best he can do is compromise with the opposition and the opposition wants him to fail on all counts & is depending on his lack of support to suck-seed. I had hoped he would end both wars when he came to office. I'm half happy he's ending at least one. Barry |
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28 Aug 09 - 03:25 AM (#2710441) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Genie I agree, Barry. I wish that liberals like Cindy Sheehan would call and write the White House (and Senators and Representatives) often and let them know what policies they want them to implement. Probably one reason Obama and Congress aren't acting the way we would like is that the 'loyal opposition' is very well funded and organized, with volunteers and paid staffers constantly sending their own messages to TPTB in Washington. If we Democrats, liberals, progressives, etc., don't do the same but instead just badmouth those politicians and work to get them not re-elected, it's no surprise if they think most of us want that middle of the road path. You can bet that there aren't a lot of Capitol Hill staffers and associates trying to get our messages to Obama if we don't. |
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28 Aug 09 - 10:14 AM (#2710606) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk No need to get too worked up over my comments, Ebbie. You suggest that Obama may be smarter than me? Well, yeah! I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he's a good deal smarter than me. ;-) He seems like a very smart guy to me, and he has accomplished much more in life than I have. I do believe that if he genuinely tried to change the status quo in America in ways that the more progressive elements would like to see happen that he would face personal destruction...either by assassination...or by less violent but equally effective means which would eviscerate and destroy his presidency. I do believe it's that bad, yes. So, he is necessarily quite constrained in what he can do, and I'm sure he knows that. What I am not sure about is what he would do if he felt absolutely free to act without such constraint. In other words, I'm not certain of his actual ideals and how far he would take them in an ideal world. Kucinich is much freer than Obama to speak out and act as a genuine progressive, because Kucinich isn't president. He's just a small fish. A small fish can get away with more than the president can and not be destroyed for it. I have no doubt about Kucinich's ideals, but he's operating in a smaller sphere where he can still get away with it. As for Iraq and Afghanistan, there is NO justification for being in either of those countries, there never was one, and the USA should get out of them. If Obama continues trying to win that war in Afghanistan, I think it will destroy his presidency just like Vietnam did LBJ's....just like Aghanistan indirectly helped bring down the Soviet system in the 80's. |
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28 Aug 09 - 01:33 PM (#2710805) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Don Firth You paint a very dismal and depressing picture, Little Hawk, which is what I meant above when I used the word "defeatist." Do you have any ideas or suggestions as to what American citizens should do in the face of this all-powerful oligarchy? Many of us tried to elect Kucinich, but unfortunately we couldn't get enough traction. True indeed, Kucinich is not up there where he makes much of a target of himself, so he is free to speak out, but I haven't heard his name in the news now for months, so whatever he might be saying isn't having much effect. But even if Kucinich were elected, what's to stop the oligarchy from having him assassinated--or otherwise neutralized as they are currently trying to do with Obama? Anything positive to suggest? Don Firth P. S. I don't think this oligarchy is any where near as powerful and well-organized as you and many other people seem to think. They cooperate when it's to their advantage, but they would just as readily and gleefully cut each other's throats if it were to their advantage to do so. It's the just nature of the beast. |
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28 Aug 09 - 01:38 PM (#2710818) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: pdq "They cooperate when it's to their advantage, but they would just as readily and gleefully cut each other's throats if it were to their advantage..." That is just what is done by members of "organized crime". Is there really any difference? Perhaps they are actually one-and -the-same. |
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28 Aug 09 - 03:11 PM (#2710905) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk I hardly know what to suggest, Don, except for each one of you to speak out and make your voice heard as effectively as you can, and lobby your Congressmen, and support independent-minded people like Dennis Kucinich...and lobby Obama too, as best you can. I'm not surprised you don't hear about Dennis Kucinich much in "the news". That's how the media neutralize someone like Dennis. They just don't report on him, that's all, and they didn't allow him into the later presidential televised debates in 2008. Guess why? I hear about Dennis Kucinich because I'm on his office's email list, and I keep up to date on what he's saying. To hell with "the news". I don't have exactly the same problem that's facing Americans, however, because I don't live in the USA. If I did, I'd be thinking very seriously about moving to some other country...but that's just me. I love Canada, because I was born here and it's my home. I would no doubt love the USA had I been born there, and that would place me in a different spot emotionally speaking. I would not wish to leave. You said of the Oligarchy that "They cooperate when it's to their advantage, but they would just as readily and gleefully cut each other's throats if it were to their advantage to do so. It's the just nature of the beast." Absolutely. Yes, they engage in ruthless competition within the ruling power structure itself...but ONLY after they have done what secures their collective advantage vis-a-vis controlling the government and deluding the public. They secure the big nsst for themselves first. Then they jockey against each other for the best spots in it. Exactly like "organized crime"...but "the news" doesn't report on it. Not surprising, because those guys in the Oligarchy own the mass media outlets that provide "the news". |
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28 Aug 09 - 03:36 PM (#2710935) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Genie ... or, when Dennis Kucinich is allowed to participate in a debate (e.g., early in the Democratic primaries in 2008), he is marginalized in ways like this: First, he's hardly asked any questions at all by the "debate" moderator. Second, one of the very few (two?) times he's called on, he's asked about whether Shirley MacLaine's story that he had seen a "UFO" is true. Third - to add insult to injury - when 'liberal' PBS commentator Gwen Ifill is discussing the debate with others in a news show, her only mention of Kucinich is to grin and say that "... Dennis Kucinich was there - talking about UFOs." |
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28 Aug 09 - 04:16 PM (#2710956) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Donuel Obama calls politics the art of the possible. I have said several times that his role is similar to Octavian in Rome. He had to not threaten the Republicans to much yet he needed to be a leader of the people. Its getting harder and harder to have it both ways anymore. |
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28 Aug 09 - 04:19 PM (#2710960) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk Bingo, Genie! Highly effective propaganda technique for marginalizing the real opposition, isn't it? Goebbels would be impressed, I'm sure. The "debates" are an insult to people's intelligence. They're just a big managed media show put on to promote the mainstream candidates who are hand-picked by the $ySStem and to keep the public mesmerized (and divided) by the old phony 2-party (good cop/bad cop) drama. |
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28 Aug 09 - 04:27 PM (#2710969) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: maire-aine "Rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. Give an occasion to a wise man, and wisdom shall be added to him. Teach a just man, and he shall make haste to receive it." Proverbs 9, 8-9 I don't read the Bible very often, and I came upon this from an entirely different context, but I hope it's true. The momemtum on healthcare reform is getting away from Obama, but he can still recover. And he knows how to do it. He just needs a kick in the butt to get going. Maryanne Supporting a strong public plan |
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28 Aug 09 - 04:28 PM (#2710970) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk Yes, of course politics is the art of the possible, and Obama must govern with that in mind at all times or he doesn't have a chance. That's one of the reasons why I hope he's smarter than me, Ebbie. ;-) I would not want to be in his shoes right now. |
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28 Aug 09 - 04:31 PM (#2710973) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Ebbie "Obama calls politics the art of the possible." Donuel That phrase predates Obama, Don. |
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28 Aug 09 - 04:34 PM (#2710975) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk Yeah, it's been around for a long time. |
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28 Aug 09 - 06:45 PM (#2711116) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Peace "Politics is the art of the possible." Otto Von Bismarck, remark, Aug. 11, 1867 |
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28 Aug 09 - 07:00 PM (#2711126) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk And there was a truly brilliant (and very pragmatic) politician. Great if you were on his side. Not so great if you weren't. |
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28 Aug 09 - 10:06 PM (#2711276) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: robomatic I 'member saying that we weren't going to whip right out of Iraq, but I still think we intend to get out and have a timetable in mind. And Obama always treated Afghanistan as a valid American concern, and as we all know he ramped up pretty quickly. So nothin' against Cindy for her position. I just think no one can validly claim that O's a hypocrite. |
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29 Aug 09 - 12:48 AM (#2711323) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk I'm not claiming he's a hypocrite at this point. I'm just disappointed in his actions on the bailout, Afghanistan, and various other matters. I don't yet know for sure what is really behind those actions. |
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29 Aug 09 - 05:01 AM (#2711381) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Genie Well, I'm also disappointed that Obama has, reportedly, made a deal with Big Pharma that the gummint will not negotiate for good drug prices for Medicare and will not allow the reimporation of US-made pharmaceuticals if the big drug companies agree to cut their profits by $80 billion over the next 10 years. I can't help thinking, not only that that is outrageous and anti-populist and fiscally irresponsible, but that sort of breaking of campaign promises is almost certain to seriously hurt Obama's chances for a second term. But here's "the rest of the story," as Paul Harvey used to say: It seems if Obama had not been willing to "play ball," the big drug companies were set to spend BILLIONS on ads, etc., to sink Obama's Presidency along with any healthcare reforms he and the Democrats might put forward, even the modest ones. Sadly, I have little doubt that they could do it. That's what we get for allowing monopolies and quasi-monopolies in US business -- especially in areas like healthcare and media. |
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29 Aug 09 - 10:09 AM (#2711486) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk That's it, Genie. A sad situation indeed! Obama really had no chance against those vested interests, whatever it was that he originally had in mind. People are under the false impression that a president runs the country. That he's in charge. He's not. He's like the headwaiter in the restaurant, there to meet the public and represent the establishment and present a good face, but it is the owners of the restaurant who tell the headwaiter what to do and not do...and they can terminate his employment and get a new headwaiter if his performance does not satisfy them. The public doesn't get to vote for the owners of the restaurant. the public doesn't even know who they are! The public just eats whatever the restaurant is willing to serve them, that's all. And they pay for it. If it's the only restaurant in town....well...that means you have to eat what they put in front of you, doesn't it? Or you can go hungry... |
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29 Aug 09 - 11:46 AM (#2711540) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: robomatic I think Obama is finding out just what is meant by "the art of the possible". I don't think this is a surprise to anybody, and since he's bahaving as I more or less expected on the war(s), I'm going to give him some time on the more difficult stuff. What can I say, more than expectations and concerns, I just plain like the guy. |
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29 Aug 09 - 11:56 PM (#2711905) Subject: RE: BS: Cindy Sheehan returns to rebuke Obama From: Little Hawk I like him too, personality-wise. I would sure hate to be stuck with his job. |