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Origins: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye

04 Apr 97 - 06:58 PM (#3833)
Subject: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Mountain Dog

Looking for lyrics and chords to an old tune with a nautical flavor my Dad used to sing, accompanied on a tenor ukelele.

I remember these lines from the chorus:

"She had a dark and a roving eye

And her hair hung down in ring-gel-lets

She was a _____ girl, a proper girl,

But one of the roving kind."

Any help would be appreciated.


04 Apr 97 - 08:43 PM (#3839)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Joe Offer

The song is "The Roving Kind," by Jessie Cavanaugh and Arnold Stanton. You'll find it on "The Best of the Decca Years" CD by the Weavers, which I'm too lazy to transcribe this evening. Good song, though. I'm going to wait and see if I can find the lyrics or maybe somebody else will transcribe it.

It's got kind of a "big band" sound to it, which is not what you'd expect from the Weavers. I used to hear it occasionally when one of our local radio stations played the "Music of Your Life" format - it was the ONLY Weavers song they played.

-Joe-


04 Apr 97 - 10:47 PM (#3843)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Les Blank

This song was also recorded by Guy Mitchell (of Pittsburg Pennsylvania and Sparrow in the Treetop fame) in the late fifties or early sixties. As much of a fan as I am of the Weavers I have never heard their rendition. Joe, where can I look for the album you mentioned ?

Les Blank


04 Apr 97 - 10:55 PM (#3845)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Les Blank

Just as I hit the SEND button, a verse popped into my head. Don't know for sure, but it may belong to this song.

As I sailed out one evening upon a night's career,

I saw a lofty clipper ship and to her I did steer.

I hoisted up my sig-ga-nals, which she so quickly knew.

And when she saw my bunting fly, she immediately hove too-oo-oo.

Chorus

Am I mad ??


04 Apr 97 - 10:58 PM (#3846)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Arnowitt

Nope. The Black family also did a lovely, clear record- ing of it. I'll write em out over the next few days. once I dig out my tape. I've been meaning to do it anyway.


04 Apr 97 - 11:07 PM (#3847)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Dick Wisan

I believe I recall that this song had a fair run as a pop song in the 50's --has to be the early 50's-- which explains the non-Weaverish style of some of the recordings. I remember some Folkish person singing

She was a nice girl, a proper girl
But, one of the rakish kind.

He explained that "rakish" was the original word (dangerous thing to say). You could tell who was pop and who knew the real thing by whether they sang "rakish" or "roving".

Can't remember any more of the words than poster has. It's one of those perennials about the sailor ashore:

Boy meets girl,
Boy gets girl
Girl gets everything boy has,
Boy loses girl & everything else.

HTML fixed. --JoeClone, 16-Apr-03.


05 Apr 97 - 07:09 AM (#3854)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Ralph Butts

Dick.......If you do your editing in Notepad or a word processor first, you can probably view the page with your browser to check the appearance. With Netscape, it's "Open File in Browser".....Tiger


05 Apr 97 - 07:18 AM (#3855)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Ralph Butts

That's interesting. The italics are still set on. The whole thing is one big HTML page. That means your tags will be influenced by what happened before. If someone goofs, it's harder to undo. Adding a to this message should remove the italics.....Tiger


05 Apr 97 - 11:05 AM (#3861)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: dick greenhaus

Hi- The requested song is called The Fireship. It's in the database (if you can't remember the title, you could always search for [Dark and roving])

The one quoted is a Weavers re-write (to clean it up and avoid offending Methodists) of a fine old bawdy sea song.


05 Apr 97 - 03:14 PM (#3875)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Bob Schwarer

More's the pity. I love those old sea songs, bawdy or not. Bob S.


05 Apr 97 - 09:37 PM (#3882)
Subject: Lyr Add: THE ROVING KIND (Guy Mitchell)
From: Gene Graham

Here's the lyrics to the version of THE ROVING KIND that I remember; as recorded by GUY MITCHELL/1981 CBS/ENCORE - The SMASH HIT that made him a star. It was backed with: MY HEART CRIES FOR YOU, also a BIG HIT. Liner notes say Mitch Miller "pitched" MY HEART CRIES TO YOU to Frank Sinatra, who turned it down.

THE ROVING KIND - Guy Mitchell

REFRAIN: She had a dark and a roving eye-i-i
And her hair hung down in ring-a-lets
She was a nice girl, a proper girl
But - one of the roving kind."

As I cruised out one evening upon a night's career
I spied a lofty clipper ship and to her I did steer
I hoisted (heisted) out my sig-a-nals, which she so quickly knew
And when she saw my bunting flag, she immediately hove too-oo-oo. REFRAIN:

I took her for some fish and chips and treated her so kind
And hardly did I realize she was the rovin' kind
I kissed her lips, I missed her lips and found to my surprise
She was nothin' but a pirate ship rigged up in a dis-gui-se. REFRAIN:

So come all ye good sailor men who sail the wintry sea
And come all ye apprentice lads, a warning take from me
Beware of lofty clipper ships, they'll be the ruin of you-ou
For it was there that she made me walk the plank and pushed me under too-hoo-hoo. REFRAIN:

TAG: She was a nice girl, a proper girl; But one of the rovin' kind.

Source: THE ROVING KIND - GUY MITCHELL/1981 CBS


05 Apr 97 - 09:46 PM (#3885)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Joe Offer

The words in the database sure have a lot more spice to them. I searched under "roving," so I missed it because the word was "rovin.'" Good song - much better than the censored version, I think.

The Weavers "The Best of the Decca Years" is on MCA, MCAD-11465. I think it's widely available, and I'm sure you can get it on the Web at CDWorld or CD Now. MCA also came out with a nice Burl Ives collection - and both of these CD's are at budget prices.

The Weavers Decca recordings are interesting because they are SO commercial. They really do sound like big band songs. I'm glad they didn't do that for very long, although I have to say I still like the stuff.

-Joe-


05 Apr 97 - 09:52 PM (#3887)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: belter

even big band sounds good when the weavers did it.


06 Apr 97 - 12:05 AM (#3892)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Dick Wisan

Have I stopped the italics? I put in the end-italics sign.

It might be good to use some other editor, but how do we then upload what we've written to this editor? No sign of the usual Windows edit facilities. Is there a way to do an ASCII upload?


06 Apr 97 - 12:20 AM (#3893)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Joe Offer

You're still in italics, Dick. I use cut-and-paste from any Windows 95 program into the reply box on the forum here, and it works fine - except that the line feeds don't copy over. -Joe-


06 Apr 97 - 07:01 PM (#3917)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From:

I downloaded this file and looked at it. My ital/unital marks (<I>/</I>) were changed by the editor into general "emphasize" marks (<EM>). So my unital didn't work. Now let me try de-emphasize: Well is it now de-emphasized?

I'm using Win31. Does it have an equivalent cut-and- paste? Would ^V drop the contents of my clipboard?

This is written on my notepad and copied to the clipboard.

Hey! it did. Well, that looks promising. Now to get a look at the effect before I upload...

Still, I think it would be better if we didn't have HTML capacities here. The whole trouble is that HTML refuses to let the text alone. The only advantage of an HTML page here is that it lets you click on a name at the top of the file and jump to it. But, it really wouldn't be any trouble if we had a plain ASCII sheet with a simple scroll facility.


07 Apr 97 - 01:28 AM (#3936)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Joe Offer

Say.....I just noticed that everybody is in italics. Dick Wisan said the word "original," and apparently put it in italics. He apparently turned the italics on, and nobody yet has entered the proper code to turn it off.

Elementary, Dr. Watson.....

-Joe-


08 Apr 97 - 12:34 AM (#3989)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Dick Wisan

Exactly right, and I've been making bungling efforts to put it right.


08 Apr 97 - 12:35 AM (#3990)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Dick Wisan (more cheerful, this time)

And, _this_time_ (not put in italics not put in emphasis), it worked. :-)


08 Apr 97 - 12:26 PM (#3999)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Dick Wisan (nervously)

This is a test to see if the <PRE> and </PRE> command can do the trick for us. What I'm hoping for the ability to
    

Lay Out Text ------------ (very clumsy underlining with hyphens)

This way, without breaks and preserving the whitespace as you would need in posting poetry.

The lines above should be indented two spaces from the left margin with three extra spaces for the lines starting "and" and "the". There should be one blank line before and after the text, and there's a wide blank between "line" and "before" in (what should be) the line above this one.

Now, we're out of the PRE zone, and HTML should be wreaking its usual havoc. What I did to produce this is put <PRE> at the top and </PRE> at the bottom of the text. There are no HTM marks in it.

If that text preserves its layout I wonder if the editor could be taught to automatically enter <PRE> at the beginning and </PRE> at the end of the text. It seems to insert certain other things automatically.


08 Apr 97 - 12:37 PM (#4000)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Dick Wisan (Irritated)

No, it didn't work, and the reason is that this blasted editor not only uses HTML code but REWRITES it. It added paragraph markings at the ends of some but not all of my lines, while preserving the whitespace but not the line breaks. Pulling my text into Netscape, it appears in proper layout. Viewed here, it's a mess.

This is not a bad editor, it's an evil editor.


09 Apr 97 - 03:57 AM (#4036)
Subject: RE: She Had A Dark & A Rovin Eye
From: Bill

Howdy Dick Wissan,

I admire your efforts to figure out the editor, and I have great confidence that you'll conquer the beast if you anthropomorphize it enough.

Allinkausay, Bill


12 Jul 04 - 10:27 AM (#1223860)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST,ARTIE

We have the lyrics to "The Roving Kind" but would love to have the guitar chords to the song. Can anyone help?   Please reply to this site. Thanks!


15 Jul 04 - 10:58 PM (#1226646)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Jim Dixon

I found this information at http://www.lyricsdepot.com/guy-mitchell/roving-kind.html
(allmusic confirms authorship.)

THE ROVING KIND
[Recorded by] Guy Mitchell
Written by Jesse Cavanaugh and Arnold Stanton

Peaked at # 4 in 1951
Competing versions by The Weavers hit # 11 and by Rex Allen hit #20.
Adapted from the old 1800s English folk song "The Pirate Ship."

Sorry, I can't do chords, but there are sound samples at allmusic—see link above. Maybe someone can listen to them and work out the chords for you.


16 Jul 04 - 12:24 PM (#1227003)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: TS

same concept to an extent as "As I Roved Out"..: " she had a dark and rovin' eye and her hair it touched her shoulders.."


16 Jul 04 - 02:14 PM (#1227078)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST,leeneia

Hey, where's my favorite part?

"Oh, pardon me," she says to me, "for being out so late.
But if my parents heard of this, oh, sad would be my fate.
My father is in politics, a good and righteous man.
My mother is an acrobat, and I do the best I c-a-n."

Chorus


16 Jul 04 - 03:22 PM (#1227120)
Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: THE FIRESHIP
From: JWB

Guest Artie,

Here's a full version, with all the naughty bits, and the chords I use.

The Fireship           
   G                            D        
As I walked out one evening upon a night's career,
    G                                D
I spied a lofty clipper ship and to her I did steer.
D                                    G                D7
She hoisted up her sig-a-nals which I so quickly knew,

G            D7            G       C            A7               D/A7/D7
And when she saw me bunting up she immediately hove to.
          G                              A7                               
She had a dark and a roving eye, and her hair hung downs in
D
ring-a-lets.
           G                            D                G
She was a nice girl, a decent girl, but one of the rakish kind.

"Oh sir, won't you excuse me for staying out so late,
And if my parents heard of this, then sad would be my fate.
My father, he's a minister, a good and righteous man,
My mother she's a Methodist; I do the best I can."

I eyed that girl both up and down for I'd heard such talk before,
And when she moored herself to me I knew she was a whore.
But still she was a pretty girl; she shyly hung her head.
"I'll go along with you, my lad," was what to me she said.

I took her to a tav-er-in and treated her with wine.
Little did I think that she was one of the rakish kind.
I handled her, I dandled her, and much to my surprise,
Turns out she was a fireship rigged up in a disguise.

So up the stairs and into bed I took that maiden fair.
I fired off my carronade into her thatch of hair.
I fired off a broadside until my shot was spent,
Then rammed that fireship's waterline until my ram was bent.

Then in the morning she was gone, my money was gone too.
My clothes she'd hocked, my watch she stole, my seabag bid adieu.
But she'd left behind a souvenir, I'd have you all to know.
And in nine days, to my surprise, there was fire down below.

So come all you good whaler boys that sail the wintry seas,
And come all you good sailor boys, a warning take by me:
Beware of lofty clipper ships, they'll be the ruin of you,
For she not only made me walk the plank, she set fire to me mainmast, too.

Enjoy,

Jerry


17 Aug 04 - 11:30 AM (#1249413)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST,ARTIE

Jerry, Thank you for sending me the words and chords for the Roving Kind. I really appreciated it. I do a lot of sing-a-long songs and will include the Roving Kind in my selections. Once again, thank you so much for your help.
                            Artie


16 Dec 08 - 10:17 AM (#2516803)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Mr Happy

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6qlKZeQxtRY


16 Dec 08 - 04:18 PM (#2517157)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego

This thread brought to mind the late Guy Mitchell, who departed earth in 1999, I believe. His story is at least as interesting as the song legacy he has. A Croatian-American named Albert George Cernik, he was allegedly given his stage name by record producer, Mitch Miller, who introduced himself by saying, "My name's Mitchell. You seem like a nice guy; we'll call you Guy Mitchell."

He had been a child actor, saddlemaker, band and radio singer and adult movie actor. He had his own TV show in 1957. He eventually became as known and popular in the former Yugoslavia and in the U.K. and Australia as in America.

I remember "The Rovin' Kind," "Heartaches By The Number" and "Singin' The Blues" from my high school days in the 1950's. It was a short leap from material like his and Terry Gilkyson songs like "Marianne" to The Kingston Trio's "Tom Dooley" and the folk revival (as some call it).


21 Jan 09 - 11:29 PM (#2545711)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: JWB

Wow, it isn't often a 200-year old song gets the Nelson Riddle treatment like that. Maybe I should start wearing a tux to gigs -- spruce up the act a bit -- and hire a band to back me up.

Jerry


22 Jan 09 - 05:52 PM (#2546472)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego

Don't forget the morning coat and spats - a nice touch! It also facilitates riding a horse to your gigs....


28 Jul 09 - 03:26 AM (#2688577)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST

I've enjoyed the discussion on "The Roving Kind" tremendously. I know the melody for the chorus, but not for the verses. I'd love to find the sheet music for this. Does anyone have a copy? Can anyone tell me where to find it?

My father was in the Marines in the Pacific during World War II. He learned quite a repetoire of songs during his time there. After the war, he married my mother. I was their first child. I could carry a tune from my earliest years, and my father thought it was cute to teach me some of the songs he'd picked up in his years as a Marine.

At the age of four, I went to my first Sunday School class. Our Sunday School began with a worship service for all the grade levels together, then each grade would have a lesson in a separate room. During our first worship service, the head of the Sunday School asked whether anyone knew a song s/he could sing for the Sunday School. I raised my hand, stood up, and sang, "She Had a dark and a roving eye -i-i and her hair hung down (etc.)"

The church never let my father forget it.

But I didn't know there were verses and now that I DO know, I'd love to know the tune as well.

Thank you.
Lois


29 Jul 09 - 03:47 AM (#2689404)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: RamblinStu

Just a reminder to you that there is a great version of "Fireship" on ex-Spinner Hughie Jones album Seascape.

Listen to the way he rolls his R's.......


Stuart Pendrill


29 Jul 09 - 01:34 PM (#2689719)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: dick greenhaus

If memory serves, in Sniclair Lewis' Arrowsmith there was a somewhat tipsy Swedish chemist who bawled out the chorus of this.


10 Aug 09 - 03:41 PM (#2697140)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: JWB

Guest Lois,

That is a wonderful story. I hope no excommunication was involved.

You can find an admittedly rude version of the song, titled The Fireship, on the CD Salty Dick's Uncensored Sailor Songs. It's available as a single song download for a mere $0.99 on CD Baby, i-Tunes and others. Here's link to CD Baby: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/saltydick

It's a great song.

Jerry


10 Aug 09 - 08:54 PM (#2697378)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Joe_F

I have always thought of this song under the name "The Fireship", as with JWB. A slightly different version of the last stanza:

So listen, all you sailormen who sail upon the sea:
Beware of lofty fireships: one was the ruin of me.
Beware of them; stay clear of them: they'll be the ruin of you,
For 'twas there I got my mizzen sprung and strongbox broken too.


11 Aug 09 - 11:17 AM (#2697738)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

"Beware of them; stay clear of them." Internal rhyme often means Oscar Brand.

Just saying.


11 Aug 09 - 11:40 PM (#2698267)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: KathyW

To Lois, who is looking for sheet music to the song: there is music for it in Stan Hugill's "Shanties from the Seven Seas" under the name "The Fire Ship."


12 Aug 09 - 01:34 AM (#2698294)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Ey
From: Gibb Sahib

I recently ran across this field recording:
recording

I can't remember how many times I must have sung it during a really long drive, ha ha


12 Aug 09 - 10:52 AM (#2698562)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

Another gem from Steve Gardham's collecting. But I think it came ultimately from the version sung by Brand 25 years earlier. The tune is a little different though.

Am putting the finishing touches on a report (decades in the making) on this song and its relatives.

Would any 'Catters with reactions, different versions, or special recollections, etc., of the song please post 'em?

The same goes for the similar "Ratcliffe Highway/ Cruising 'Round Yarmouth" family.


12 Aug 09 - 11:49 AM (#2698592)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: dick greenhaus

I guess the Kipper family had the last word(s):

She had a dark and roving eye,
And another one quite similar..."


12 Aug 09 - 02:14 PM (#2698698)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Seamus Kennedy

Seamus Kennedy does a great version of it on his Sailing Ships and Sailing Men CD.


12 Aug 09 - 05:47 PM (#2698904)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

Thanks, Dick. I'd forgotten that one.


10 Sep 24 - 09:51 AM (#4208136)
Subject: ADD version: Covent Garden Ramble
From: Lighter

In its most familiar forms, this is related to George Ware's innocent 1863 music hall effort, "She'd a Black and a Rolling Eye," but based on a pair of much earlier broadsides.

The earlier broadside is "Covent Garden Ramble," printed by Davenport of West Smithfield about 1801:

COVENT GARDEN RAMBLE

            One night in Covent Garden
                With pleasure I did steer,
            I met a pretty fair maid,
                  Taking of the air;
            Her shoes were made of kerseymere,
                  Her stockings they were silk.
            Her shift was made of the best lawn,
                  And her skin was white as milk.
                     She’d a black and rolling eye.

            I took this charming creature,
                  I took her to an inn,
            I swore I’d ne’er forsake her,
                  If that she would be mine,
            I detain’d this charming creature,
                  So long, she would not stay,
            She sigh’d and said I am a maid,
                  Pray let me go my way.

             I hope you will excuse me,
                  I dare not stop out so late,
             For if my mother she should know;
                  I would not for a groat;
             My father he’s a preacher,
                  A very holy man,
             My mother she’s a methodist,
                  And I am a true Britain.

             When I kiss’d this charming creature,
                  I had my heart’s desire,
             This little dirty stinking slut,
                  Set me all on fire,
             She set me all on fire,
                  Which caused me for to rue,
             This little dirty stinking slut
                  She’s one of the wicked crew.

The ballad was reprinted more than once. There are two printings in the Bodleian, one datable to as late as 1840-1851. The Davenport printing is from the Madden Collection.

"Kerseymere" is a fancy woolen twill noted for unusual softness and its use in expensive garments.


10 Sep 24 - 02:30 PM (#4208150)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST,tug the cox

Most people on this thread call it 'one of the Roving kind', Iv'e only ever heard it as 'one og the Rakish Kind.


11 Sep 24 - 08:50 AM (#4208173)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

Tug, there's one mention in the 1920s that has "roving kind," but all other known versions before Cavanaugh & Stanton's pop hit of 1950-51 have "rakish" or, in one case, "whoring."

The trad titles are "The Fireship" and "A Black [or "Dark"] and Rolling Eye." In the'60s the revival singers transferred the "Fireship" title to one branch of the "Cruising Round Yarmouth" family.

All these nuances, and more, are set to be explained here and on the "Yarmouth" thread.

This slip, from the Madden collection (and almost identically in the Bodleian) represents he next development. The date is uncertain, but the word "hath" was archaic (and perhaps regional) for some time before 1842, when the "Stockport Advertiser" of Manchester mentioned a ballad slip titled "The Black and Rolling Eye" (not necessarily *this* song, however!)

                        BLACK AND ROLLING EYE

        As I walked out one morning,
            All in the month of May,
        I met a pretty damsel
            So beautiful and gay:--
        Her shoes they were of velvet,
            Her stockings they were of silk,
        Her shift it was of Hollands fine,
            And breast as white as milk.

                   CHORUS.

        She hath a black and rolling eye,
            To my fal de ral laddy O,
           She is a nice girl,--
                And one of the rakish crew.

        I took her to a tavern,
            And call'd for cakes and wine,                
        But little did I think
            She was of a rakish mind;
        I took her to a tavern,
                As you shall understand ;
        She said -- kind sir, I am a maid,
            Be as easy as you can.

        She said -- kind sir, excuse me,
            For staying out so late
        My parents would be angry
            And sad would be my fate ;
        My father is a preacher--
            A good and pious man ;
        My mother is a Methodist,
            And I'm a true Briton.

        Come all you able seamen,
                That ploughs the raging main,
        That gets a little money
              By the cold wind and rain ;
        I'd have you shun those fiery ships,
              Or you will surely rue,
        Or else you'll get your cobbles sprung
              And set on fire too.

"Crew" = bunch.

"Cobbles" = cobble stones = "stones."

As in the earlier, similar songs, much emphasis is placed on the woman's fancy clothes - a feature soon to be lost.

Note too that, unlike the previous text, the speaker is explicitly identified as a sailor.


17 Sep 24 - 11:12 AM (#4208471)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

Seemingly the earliest modern text of the song was collected by James M. Carpenter in 1928 from William Fender of Barry Docks, South Wales. Fender "learned [it] in [the] foc's'le early eighties."

                   DARK AND ROLLING EYE
As I strolled out one evening to take my night's career,
I overtook a fine looking craft and after her I did steer.
I gave to her the signal: the signal she well knew,
She hauled around her main yard, and then she did lay to.

        She had a dark and rolling eye,
        To me fal-the-addle-diddle-di-do!
        She was a nice fair pretty young maid,
        But one of the rakish style.

She said, Young man, excuse me, for being out so late.
If my parents only knew of this, how sad would be my fate.
My father is a parson, and a pious good old man,
My sister she is (just G. T.) and I am the roving hand.    [sic

Now all you young seamen who gather your fortunes on the main,
Who have to stem the ocean amidst the wind and rain,
Beware of all these fiery old ships, for the day you'll surely rue.
It was with one I got my main yard sprung,
                         and my quarterblocks chafed right through.


19 Sep 24 - 02:34 PM (#4208602)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Anglo

I came across an Australian version years ago:

She had a dark and a roving eye,
And rum stains down her singlet…


22 Sep 24 - 09:02 AM (#4208710)
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

As mentioned earlier, the modern song utilizes the tune - and the theme of deception by a woman) of George Ware's 1863 patter song, "She'd a Black and a Rolling Eye." Kudos to John Baxter for calling this to our attention:

https://folksongandmusichall.com/index.php/shed-a-black-and-rolling-eye-railway-version/

You can here Bill Botting's performance of Ware's song in Sussex in 1968 here:

https://sussextraditions.org/record/black-and-rolling-eye-the/


23 Sep 24 - 04:40 AM (#4208736)
Subject: RE: ORIGINS: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge

Guy Mitchell- I've often thought of him as the last of the ballad singers


23 Sep 24 - 09:28 AM (#4208755)
Subject: RE: ORIGINS: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar

Don't know if someone mentioned this before, but a favourite parody of this song by the Kipper Family began 'She had a dark and a roving eye, and another one quite similar'.


25 Sep 24 - 10:12 AM (#4208830)
Subject: RE: Origins: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

Mentions of the song begin to appear in the 1920s, suggesting an increased popularity during World War I. The earliest I have found is in a report on nightlife on the Left Bank pf Paris in the "Evansville [Ind.] Courier and Press: (June 10, 1923):

“Perhaps Nina Hamnett, who has belonged to Montparnasse ever since she deserted Augustus John's group at the cafe Royal in London, was there and sang ‘The Fire Ship,’ the refrain of which is ‘She’s a Nice Girl, a Decent Girl, but One of the Rakish Kind.’”

The Welsh artist Nina Hamnett was an enthusiast of sea songs.

An article in the Brisbane, Australia, "Truth" (Dec. 23, 1923) about the kindness of streetwalkers to children, included the following fragment:

"Young man, she said, excuse me for being out so late,
For if my parents heard of it then sad would be my fate,
My father is a clergyman and a very pious man,
My mother is a Methodist, but I do the best I can.

"It was a dark and stormy night,                                          And her hair hung down to her waistline,
She was a nice girl, a decent girl,
And one of the roving kind."

This is the only pre-Guy Mitchell instance of "roving" rather than the usual "rakish."


29 Sep 24 - 05:12 PM (#4209032)
Subject: RE: Origins: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

It's pretty surprising to discover that the earliest printed version of the song in its modern form was in "The Week-End Book" (1924), a miscellany of prose, poetry, music, and puzzles, edited for a sophisticated readership by Vera Mendel and Francis Meynell. John Goss, English baritone and bon vivant, was the music editor and may have contributed the song, which is decsribed as a "sailor's forebitter."

The tune given is the familiar one.

                      THE FIRE SHIP
                
As I strolled out one ev’ning out for a night’s career,
I spied a lofty fire ship, and after her I steered;
I hoisted her my siganals which she very quickly knew,
And when she see’d my bunting fly, she immediately hove to-o-o.
                
       She’d a dark and a rolling eye,
       And her hair hung down in ringalets,            [sic
       She was a nice girl, a decent girl,
       But one of the rakish kind.

O Sir, you must excuse me for being out so late,
For if my parients knew of it, then sad would be my fate,    [sic
My father he’s a minister, a true and honest man,
My mother she’s a Methodist, and I do the best I can.
                
       She’d a dark and a rolling eye, etc.
                                    

I took her to a tavern and I treated her to wine,
Little did I think she belonged to the rakish kind;
I handled her, I dandled her, and found to my surprise,
She was nothing but a fire-ship rigged up in a disguise.    [sic
                
       She’d a dark and a rolling eye, etc.


The concluding stanza or stanzas are understandably missing.

It's doesn't make too much sense for the singer to recognize the woman as a "fire-ship" in line two only to be surprised in stanza three. It makes even less sense for him to wittingly accompany a "fire-ship."

"Siganals," "see'd," and "parients" suggest (truly or as parody) a   mannerism of some 19th century music-hall performances.


30 Sep 24 - 03:42 PM (#4209091)
Subject: RE: Origins: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST

The usual chorus and no more appears in American novelist Sinclair Lewis's "Arrowsmith" (1925). Two American printings of the song (or much of it) occurred almost simultaneously in the fall of 1929.

One, in Frank Shay's "Drawn from the Wood," is virtually identical in words and tune to the version in "The Week-End Book." Shay (1888-1954)
had been a lumberjack, sailor, and overseas doughboy, but he gives the song "As sung by Ruth Dyer." It was evidently new to him, since he hadn't included it in either of his two earlier collections of songs for "Pious Friends and Drunken Companions." or in his sea-song anthology "Wooden Ships and Iron Men."

More significant is the version in "The Songs My Mother Never Taught Me," an expurgated and bowdlerized collection of soldier and sailor songs by John Jacob Niles, Doug Moore, and W. W. "Wally" Wallgren. Niles, not yet famous, was a veteran of the Air Service, Moore of the Navy, and Wallgren of the Marine Corps.

Niles, of course, liked to tinker with words and music besides passing off some of his original compositions as ancient folk creations. Neither of these objections seem to apply very seriously to "The Fire Ship." Not only do the editors assure us that the song "is hereby recorded from the singing of Tom Davin--Literary Racketeer and Irishman Extraordinaire"; the tune given is, startlingly, a worn-down version of that usually associated with "The Lowlands of Holland." If Niles had "improved" the tune, he would have done a better job.

Compare the final stanza with that of the "Black and Rolling Eye" broadside.

                FIRESHIP
                
As I set out one evening upon a midnight clear,
I ran across a fire ship and after her did steer
I hoisted up my siginal which she did quickly know            
And as I ran my buntin' up she immediately hove to

        She had a dark and rolling eye
        And her hair hung down in ringolets                                
        A fine girl, a decent girl and one of the rakish kind.

(Falsetto) "Oh, sir, you must excuse me for being out so late,
For if my parents knew of it, Oh, sad would be my fate.
My father is a minister; a good and righteous man,
My mother is a Methodist, so I do the best I can."

                         Chorus

I took her to a tavern and treated her to wine,
Ah! then I did not know that she was of the rakish kind.
I handled her and dandled her, 'til I found to my surprise,
She was nothing but a fireship rigged up in a disguise.

                         Chorus

So all ye jolly sailormen that sail the wintry sea,
And all ye merry prentice boys, a warnin' take from me.
Beware of floatin' fireships; they'll be the ruin of you,
For 'twas there I had me main yard sprung
                         and me jewel block stove through.

                          Chorus



(Some may recall the opening lines of Longfellow's "The Wreck of the Hesperus" [1842]: "It was the schooner Hesperus,/That sailed the wintry sea.")


30 Sep 24 - 04:44 PM (#4209099)
Subject: RE: Origins: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: GUEST,Lighter

That GUEST, of course, was me.


07 Oct 24 - 10:24 AM (#4209375)
Subject: RE: Origins: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

The next development in the story of this song is could not, of course, have been predicted.

At some point its "dark and rolling eye" chorus was attached to a very different and entirely surreal bawdy song, associated especially with the Royal Navy, called variously "The Sailors' Wives," "The Whores of Pompey," "The Captain's Ball," etc.

Even more surprising was the appearance in 1941 of a sanitized version
of the latter sung by the very popular English singer Elsie Carlisle. This was called "She Had Those Dark and Dreamy Eyes," and it was written by Jimmy Hughes and Ted Douglas. It modified the chorus to:

She had those dark and dreamy eyes,
And she sang a song of love, sir.
She was one of those flash-eyed girls,
One of the old brigade.

The chorus's tune remained nearly the same as in "The Fireship," though that of the stanzas was different.

A year earlier in 1940 Jimmy Hughes had been responsible, with Frank Lake, for the popular, also bowdlerized, version of "Bless 'Em All!"


11 Oct 24 - 05:17 PM (#4209653)
Subject: RE: Origins: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Mrrzy

The Fireship, Oscar Brand, totz.


12 Oct 24 - 06:31 PM (#4209700)
Subject: RE: Origins: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

Except for GUEST 28 Jul 09's Marine father, I haven't noted any mention of "The Fireship" being sung during WW2.

The next notable appearance - or non-appearance - is on the sleeve of Oscar Brand's EP "Back-Room Ballads" (CMS-11), released in 1949. The song's title is on the sleeve (as track A-4), but the song isn't on the album!

Brand sang the first stanza and the chorus along with the Weavers on radio in 1949-50.

When Brand did record it, on the LP "Bawdy Songs and Back Room Ballads, Vol 1" (Audio-Fidelity AFLP-906) (1955), the version he sang was nearly identical to Frank Shay's, with a final verse reminiscent of Niles, Moore, and Wallgren's.

Other than a more sensible "clipper ship" in stanza one, the only notable difference is in the final lines:

"Listen all you sailor men
That sail upon the sea.
Beware of them there fireships;
One was the ruin of me.
Beware of them, steer clear of them,
They'll be the death of you.
'Twas there I had my mizzen sprung
And my strongbox broken through."


As the mast just aft of the mainmast, a "mizzen" is an odd spar to be metaphorically "sprung" (cracked or split) by a "fireship." (A mizzen can also be the lowest sail set on a mizzen mast.) These lines, then,   may have been fashioned by a landlubber.

Brand notes only, "This is what happens to all jolly lads who follow the sea eventually."

Brand failed to include "The Fireship" in his book of "Bawdy Songs and Back Room Ballads" (1960).


12 Oct 24 - 08:01 PM (#4209707)
Subject: RE: Origins: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

Stzs. 2 and 3 of the broadside I posted on 11 Sept are reversed.

That's just how they were printed on the original sheet.


13 Oct 24 - 02:30 PM (#4209752)
Subject: RE: Origins: She Had a Dark and a Rovin' Eye
From: Lighter

Appearing in late 1950 was “The Roving Kind,” words & music by the pseudonymous "Jesse Cavanaugh & Arnold Stanton."

The song was first recorded by The Weavers on the Decca label. Watch them perform it in 1951:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPQKcKaapBY

And compare the more lucrative big-band treatment of Guy Mitchell with Mitch Miller's Orchestra:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiUNbByGX5w

And that of Les Baxter's orchestra featuring Lindy Doherty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDXgmZCrlb8

Wikipedia ludicrously notes that "Mitchell's jocular version followed the original sea-shanty style." It reached #4 on the national "Billboard" chart in December, 1950, and stayed on the list for 17 weeks.

"The Roving Kind" never mentions a "fireship." "Clipper ship" and the less suggestive and more readily understandable "pirate ship" take its place.