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10 Oct 09 - 07:29 PM (#2743157) Subject: Origins: scrumpy; scrumping From: Barbara For all you Dead Dog Scrumpy fans: I get this weekly newsletter called World Wide Words (Michael Quinion) and today they were working over 'scrumpy'. I thought some of you might find inspiration in some of the information, especially the "squeal-pig cider". Blessings, Barbara 2. Weird Words: Scrumping /skrVmpIN/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- We are in apple-harvest time in England, which makes me think of the one-time rural childhood pursuit of stealing apples from orchards. That's what "scrumping" means over here (Americans have another, low-slang, sense of the word that need not concern us). He sighed, more in sorrow than in anger; in fact there was hardly any anger at all, like vermouth in a really dry martini. God probably sighed like that when he looked at the tree and saw that someone had been scrumping apples. [Earth, Air, Fire and Custard, by Tom Holt, 2005.] It might sound like an immemorial practice, and probably is, but the word for it is surprisingly modern - the earliest example is from 1866. The source is uncertain but seems to be from a dialect term meaning something withered, shrivelled or dried up. It may be linked to the old adjective "scrimp", scanty or meagre, from which we get the verb "scrimp", to economise or be thrifty. Support for this comes from an early meaning of "scrumping", which referred to taking windfalls or the small apples left on the trees after harvest. This evolved into illicitly taking any sort of apples. It can even more broadly mean theft of any kind, though this is rare: When wireless networking first kicked off in the corporate world a couple of years ago, I honestly thought the concept of loitering outside with a Wifi portable, scrumping for free access would be incredibly short- lived. [Personal Computer World, Aug. 2004.] If you're familiar with British cider, you will know "scrumpy" for a cheap and rough, though strongly alcoholic, variety which is a hazard to the unwary. Its name is a relative of "scrumping" in its oldest sense because it was often brewed from small or unselected apples. Modern brands that go by that name are mild compared with the vinegary farm-made sort of old, which a farmer described to me in Herefordshire many years ago as "squeal-pig cider", this being the noise you made when you tried it. "It used to take three people to swallow a mug of it," another old countryman told me, "One to drink and the other two to hold him upright." |
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10 Oct 09 - 07:46 PM (#2743167) Subject: RE: Origins: scrumpy; scrumping From: Uncle_DaveO When I read that in Quinion's email this morning, I was tempted to give him some feedback about that great song, "Dead Dog Scrumpy", but was too lazy at the time. That's a wonderful email-list/site for those of us who love language. Dave Oesterreich |
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10 Oct 09 - 08:20 PM (#2743179) Subject: RE: Origins: scrumpy; scrumping From: Charley Noble Dave and Barbara- It was Trevor Crozier who composed "Dead Dog Scrumpy," who unfortunately no longer walks this earth. I collected the Appalachian version of his song and recorded it a few years ago, complete with chorus. Here's a link: Click here for lyrics and MP3 Sample! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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11 Oct 09 - 12:40 AM (#2743288) Subject: RE: Origins: scrumpy; scrumping From: MGM·Lion Might have known that Mudcatters would also be fellow-Quinionites. He works from Bristol, here in UK, but I was first alerted to him by friends in Santa Monica. WorldWideWords indeed! How many other of us get him on email every Saturday morning, sharp at 0900 our time, I wonder? |
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11 Oct 09 - 11:41 AM (#2743494) Subject: RE: Origins: scrumpy; scrumping From: Tug the Cox Always a Saturdy treat. |
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11 Oct 09 - 12:57 PM (#2743537) Subject: RE: Origins: scrumpy; scrumping From: Mick Tems Many years ago, I went into a pub in Barnstaple where the landlord advertised cider, and he charged me precisely seven old pence a pint! More recently, my friend Martin and I decided to go to The Bridge Inn in Cardiff, sadly now disappeared, which had a reputation for cider. You can imagine the situation: two smart young lads ordering pints of scrumpy. The barman was most apologetic: "I'm sorry, lads, but if you want cider, then you must drink in that bar" - indicating the double-doors. We paid for the cider and went through the swing doors, where we encountered a vision of hell. The Rake's Progress had nothing on it. Old tramps giggled toothlessly. Dirty old men drank the devil's fuel and raged drunkenly at nothing in particular. We gulped our pints hurriedly and beat it. Nowadays, cider has improved famously. Dave Matthews owns Seidr Dai, a brilliant series of cider brews. Bill Gronow from Llantwit Fardre is the ambassador for Gwynt y Ddraig (Dragon's Breath), who produce a plethora of amazing cider and perry recipes. Dave Jones of Llantrisant and Swan Ciders is the Best Cider blue riband holder. There are a lot more producers who really love their cider and their perry and carry on brewing - and Wales is more better for it. Cheers! |
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11 Oct 09 - 01:58 PM (#2743576) Subject: RE: Origins: scrumpy; scrumping From: Tug the Cox Try the Cider bar in Newton Abbot, still has a cider and wine only licence. |
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11 Oct 09 - 02:03 PM (#2743579) Subject: RE: Origins: scrumpy; scrumping From: Barbara You know, I can't remember who put me on to Michael Quinion, but I've been a regular subscriber for several years now. If you love language, he's a gift. I'm in Oregon, US. Blessings, Barbara |
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11 Oct 09 - 06:33 PM (#2743751) Subject: RE: Origins: scrumpy; scrumping From: Rumncoke The first brew I ever made was using pears - Conference variety - and my future brother in law had to have a lie down on the wall outside the back door after sampling it. There was a crab apple tree behind my house in the English midlands, I could easily pick enough in one go for several gallons of wine. That was good too. It always seems such a shame that most years there are tons of good brewing stuff left to rot on the ground. I always associated the word scrumping with a rugby (football) scrum - and the creeping along behind whatever cover there was to visit the tree unseen, bent over in the same way. Anne Croucher |
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11 Oct 09 - 07:45 PM (#2743789) Subject: RE: Origins: scrumpy; scrumping From: Tug the Cox Anne, Quinion would love that as an example of plausible but misguided folk etymology. |