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12 Oct 09 - 02:59 PM (#2744329) Subject: Humphrey Smith From: oombanjo Humphrey Smith.The destroyer of British folk music and peoples lives and homes. This man is the scurge of modern day British society. After watching Inside Out on BBC tonight, my disgust that a man like this can still practice his vile autocratic reign in my country has led me to post this thread. Comments welcome. |
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12 Oct 09 - 04:20 PM (#2744394) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Anglogeezer Tell us more OOMBANJO, tell us more.!! The programme isn't available to watch again on the famous I-player (what do we pay our licence fee for??)so you'll have to explain. Waiting in anticipation of grand revalations Jake |
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12 Oct 09 - 04:36 PM (#2744406) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: John MacKenzie Who he? |
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12 Oct 09 - 04:39 PM (#2744409) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: oombanjo sooner than try to give a full explination let ask if anyone recorded it and can make it public.if we can not get a result I will try to give a fuller vertion. is there any one out there who recorded it? cheers oombanjo |
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12 Oct 09 - 04:52 PM (#2744417) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Anglogeezer Humphrey Smith is the grand patriarch of SAMUEL SMITHS breweries. He decided in about 2005 that he would no longer pay for a PRS licence (which is required for live & recorded music) see this previous thread Obit - Samuel Smiths and LIVE music regards Jake |
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12 Oct 09 - 04:54 PM (#2744420) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Dave Sutherland Which BBC region was it? Inside Out from East Midlands featured the BNP plus Brian Clough and Peter Taylor - obviously separate features. |
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12 Oct 09 - 05:07 PM (#2744430) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Anglogeezer Dave Sutherland * wrote Which BBC region was it? Inside Out from East Midlands featured the BNP plus Brian Clough and Peter Taylor - obviously separate features. ********************************************************************* It was "YORKSHIRE & Lincolnshire" of course. A replay is not available. regards Jake |
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12 Oct 09 - 08:04 PM (#2744545) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Nick You can watch a copy of it here - Sam Smiths on the TV |
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12 Oct 09 - 08:42 PM (#2744562) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: John Routledge Thanks Nick - Frightening and fascinating insight into Power.The hand of Sam Smiths spreads far and wide!! |
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12 Oct 09 - 09:25 PM (#2744575) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey I will try to see what this is about but from my recollection and experience it was PRS who were and still remain the bad guys. |
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13 Oct 09 - 04:23 AM (#2744711) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Gedpipes a separate issue Malcolm |
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13 Oct 09 - 04:34 AM (#2744715) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: theleveller I didn't see the programme but I have heard some pretty disturbing things about Humphrey Smith from ex-tenants etc. Much as I like Sam Smiths beer, I refuse to go into any of their pubs now. Not that he gives a damn about his customers - he owns so much real estate that the brewery is "small beer" by comparison. |
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13 Oct 09 - 04:59 AM (#2744725) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: gnomad I followed Nick_'s link above; an interesting programme which I hadn't seen. Stories of HS's medieval attitude to the peasantry abound in the county, but I hadn't heard specifics before, other than the well-documented PRS issue, and second-hand stories of his treatment of some local landlords. Other than supporting his victims, and boycotting his business interests, I am unsure how anyone can effectively oppose such behaviour. He seems to work carefully to remain (just) within the law. Litigation is clearly meat and drink to him, and having deep pockets he is able to outlast most opponents in that sphere. As for his being "the scurge of modern day British society" I feel this is somewhat overstating the case, a scourge possibly, but there are others wielding greater power and influence whom I would put higher up the rankings. |
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13 Oct 09 - 05:29 AM (#2744734) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Leadfingers God Bless the Squire and his relations , and keep us in our proper stations ! Is this another example of the Unacceptable face of Capitalism ? |
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13 Oct 09 - 08:07 AM (#2744835) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Nick Malcolm The little I know about this would suggest that the PRS were more accommodating and interested in coming to agreement than Mr Smith was. He does like to apply blanket policies which is either fair or unfair depending on your point of view. In our particular instance at Farlington, though I don't agree with his view personally, commercially even aesthetically, I can say that he was civil and straightforward in my personal dealings with him. He wrote me two letters and telephoned me back when I - in frustration at having the BBC and various people getting in touch as it wasn't a battle I particularly wanted to be involved apart from the music side of things - left a message for him with his wife. I still believe that his decision was a wrong one and that what we brought to Farlington was very much in keeping with his Orwellian notion of what a pub should be that he recently sent round to the managers of the pubs in memo form. Interestingly it is the same Orwell essay (The Moon Under Water) that Wikipedia quote as supposedly being at the heart of the formation of the Wetherspoons pub chain. Everyone has always said that there is no way he will ever change his mind but I have always believed that if you can change your mind once that you have already demonstrated your ability to change NOT your ability to never change - so I live in hope if not expectation. How he treats his staff though is horrible and definitely verging on the cruel. How much of that is down to his infamous Area Manager (FO'B) or how much it is ultimately down to him one can only guess. I heard word that that Area Manager was going soon but rumour is an interesting thing. A world of continually extending probationary periods against ever more impossible targets set on a world of continually shifting sands seems immensely callous. Interestingly I felt that 5 years was a reasonable time to try and re-engage him on the music issue. It's been a reasonable period of time. Also the pub market has changed dramatically. Food and catering in pubs has changed. Traditional values and traditional music with traditional beer seem a good opportunity, that would seem to fit in with Sams values(?). Bizarrely I have always thought that what McEwans do/did in Scotland to promote sessions and traditional music was such a perfect fit for Sam Smiths. Perhaps not in my lifetime... When we got removed from Farlington you'd be hard pressed to find a pub which would have us - the world was food packed into every inch of a pub and space 'wasted' on music was profit lost. Luckily I found one otherwise we would probably have stopped. Recession has changed things. I now go into quiet Sams pubs but see how many pubs now are trying to get music in to attract custom or fight for a share of a declining market. I play in a rock/covers band and this year we will have played almost 30 gigs in an 8 month period and all within probably a 20 mile radius which is a huge change. Every week at Flaxton (middle of nowhere really) there will be 30 to 40 people drinking and chatting and getting involved which seems very much what a pub is/should be about. Sams have a great system where they control the product (Wetherspoons and some others probably compete on price pretty keenly now), the food (which is not particularly attractive to eat), own the buildings, screw the staff for hours and pay, disallow all competition within the pub (even quiz prizes) but still struggle. At some point (until they bring in unattended self service pubs like petrol stations) you run out of things to cut and reach a critical level. At that point they will need to do something as in speaking to someone who has known him for many years the one thing he doesn't like is something that doesn't break even. The underlying value of the estate is the important bit but they still need to break even. I think it sad that they have such lovely pubs that I would hate to see spoiled but similarly find it sad that they are underutilised. In the case of Farlington it was such a beautiful place to play - if you have never seen it here is a picture from much happier times and you might recognise one or two people. If anyone objects to the picture let me know and I'll remove. Hopefully you'll see why I'd like the option to have it available again one day Happy days 1 Happy days 2 Happy days 3 |
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13 Oct 09 - 08:31 AM (#2744856) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: GUEST,Mike Having seen the programme 'Inside Out' last night I wondered if it has cost the local Council £200k (plus) in Legal/Court costs then how much will he have paid. He would not pay for a PRS licence so Folk/Jazz Clubs had to find new premises - so again he must have lost a fair amount of trade (cash) in that respect. Then it appears he wants to screw the Managers of his premises into the floor by reducing Staff hours so they have to work longer in order that he keeps the beer prices low. In addition to all this there is the apparent dereliction abounding in Tadcaster. I think the only way to sort out this character is for Suppliers to refuse to provide his business with ingredients and for all the people working for him in whatever capacity to walk out. Unfortunately this could never happen because no matter how awful he is there will always be people who will obey his every whim. Maybe he should be certified. I really used to like Sam Smiths Stout but haven't touched it since all the problems with the PRS fees. I and my family/friends have also never set foot in one of his pubs and will not whilst he is in charge. |
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13 Oct 09 - 08:42 AM (#2744863) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Les from Hull Well, you can only see the back of my head! I avoid Sam Smiths pubs, but they are basically selling cheap beer to the masses, so the business plan is pretty solid. |
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13 Oct 09 - 09:05 AM (#2744878) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Nick Not really working though, Les. It seems a reasonable business plan. There comes a point however when you might as well sit at home with a bunch of cans and get pissed (reminds me of that great song that Maggie sings :)!!). What is happening is that Sams are attracting a small hardcore of drinkers who go to drink rather than anything else and losing the people who want something more than cheap beer and talking to the same handful of people each day. Playing more music in a range of pubs this year has been interesting. Surprising how many people will venture out for something different. I spoke to a chap who used to run a Sams pub and now works in a pub near where I work. They put the right band for the pub on recently and tripled the turnover on that night. He will do it again - not every night but now and again and it will help build his trade. Sams managers don't have that option along with many other options they don't have. Coupled with much of this is that they are also having problems attracting good managers. One local pub has a fantastic manager and he is attracting business and transforming stuff because of who he is. Another is struggling like mad because the manager has all the charisma of a dead mackerel. Nice back of the head shot. I recently came across a recording of everyone singing 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow' from some part of that weekend with many harmonies and it was rather good (including semitone key change for the last verse) |
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13 Oct 09 - 09:21 AM (#2744882) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Les from Hull I agree Nick. If you want a pub devoid of atmosphere try a Sam Smiths pub. The Bluebell near me had one of the best folk clubs in the country, home to the Watersons and many, many others is now a sad parody of a pub. |
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13 Oct 09 - 09:54 AM (#2744912) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith From: Lowden Jameswright How do you deal with someone who flashes the cheque book on the back of an untold fortune to return repeatedly to judiciary reviews in an effort to overturn planning permission granted (and upheld on 3 separate occasions) over 10 years ago? His actions (based on his feudal notions of greenbelt and principle) have undermined the livelihood and sanity of a hard-working family trying to run their business. I'm told he has dozens of law suits to face, but it's all meat and drink to him; he obviously is a guy who thrives on conflict. He must be one of the most hated blokes in the UK, but I know someone who is very grateful for his decision to close the Plough's doors to live music during Whitby Folk week; the manager of the Fleece... thirty odd thousand quid - bring it on! |
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13 Oct 09 - 11:15 AM (#2744977) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk mus From: Joe Offer If you start a thread with just a person's name, the assumption is that the person is dead, ill, or in jail - or that the thread is just a copy of the previous thread with the same title. That's why we ask for specific thread titles. I changed this title to Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music, but I really don't know if that's acceptable. Would the thread originator please send me a personal message if he/she has a better suggestion for a specific title? Thanks. -Joe- |
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13 Oct 09 - 12:06 PM (#2745007) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: Lowden Jameswright Humphrey Smith - Destroyer of Lives? |
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13 Oct 09 - 12:56 PM (#2745042) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: Nick Humphrey Smith - Destroyer of Livers? |
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13 Oct 09 - 02:36 PM (#2745146) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: oombanjo Hi all I have pmd Joe and kept his title.Having just looked a it again"Thanks Nick" I am still as gut sick as i was last nigHt.Mainly that I can't do anything about him except to stay out of his pubs .However in Beverley his decision has given us, The Sun,The Foresters, The Tiger and the Woolpack. So Thanks HUMP our local pubs are better off because of you. Cheers Oombanjo.I feel better now. |
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13 Oct 09 - 05:40 PM (#2745291) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: Joe Nicholson In Whitby Folk Week we have found The Rifle Club a much better option than The Plough for our Singarounds so should Humphrey Smith change his mind we would not want to go back there. There's always another place if you look for it and sometimes things turn out for the better. Joe and Mo Nicholson |
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13 Oct 09 - 05:43 PM (#2745295) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: Joe Nicholson I would add further to that although the beer in Sams pubs is cheap those that I have been into lately are run down neglected dumps Joe Nicholson. |
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13 Oct 09 - 06:06 PM (#2745327) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk mus From: Folkiedave The Sam Smith's pub in the centre of Sheffield is low priced and attracts drinkers looking for a cheap pint. One of the Wetherspoon's pubs is the same. I am not sure what the answer is because clearly any boycott of the pubs on other than aesthetic grounds will not harm Humphrey. Just a small piece of information - when the Bluebell held the Waterson's club and certainly for a while after, it was a Cameron's pub. |
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14 Oct 09 - 06:39 PM (#2746005) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: GUEST go into samuelsmithsforum and join (free)the programme is on there on utube |
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14 Oct 09 - 08:38 PM (#2746098) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey Come on Les! The Bluebell as a folk venue had disappeared long before Sam Smith's took over. At one time there were five/six folk clubs in Hull, all thriving. Now there are none and that's not SS's fault either. People's habits change and the growth of successful folk festivals was probably more of a contributary factor than any other. It is also true that most of the clubs were in areas of the town where yoouff does its drinking and so not very attractive to your general folkie, at least not on a regular basis. |
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14 Oct 09 - 08:49 PM (#2746107) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: Peace Sam Smiths Music Ban At the end of November 2004 Sam Smiths brewery banned all music, live and recorded, in their pubs. You can follow the history of this decision at http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=76057 or in the "Sam Smiths brewery bans live music" thread in the uk.music.folk newsgroup. We've written to the chairman of Sam Smiths, Humphrey Smith, but we've not yet had a reply ( text of YFA letter ). Mr Smith's reply to another correspondent is quoted on uk.music.folk: Thank you for your letter of January 6th. Our small brewery's decision to end all activities in our pubs that make premises liable to the Performing Rights levy has, unfortunately, caused a lot of customer unhappiness. Many have objected to the loss of TV's, particularly the racing on Channel 4; many have objected to the loss of jukeboxes and/or muzac; some have objected to the loss of live entertainment as in your case and situation. I can only apologize. Rightly or wrongly our small brewery's whole strategy and objective is to keep our brewery open and producing and offering secure employment for the very long term. This Christmas many beers in pubs have been selling at five times the price of their canned equivalents in supermarkets. Sales of beer in supermarkets take a higher and higher proportion of what is a static or falling beer market. We have apart from duty increases largely held our market beer prices since 1990. We do not find it practicable, in making savings that many of our existing customers object to, for these measures to be applied selectively. We only feel able to apply them to all the licensed premises we operate, so that each pub operates on a level playing field, or with equal constraints. I can only apologize again YS Humphrey R W Smith It is not precisely clear what chairman Humphrey Smith means by "the Performing Rights levy". PRS, the Performing Right Society, collects royalties on behalf of composers, songwriters and publishers, while PPL, Phonographic Performance Limited, collects royalties on behalf of record companies and performers. The issue of PRS fees is complicated but could be negotiated between clubs using the pubs and the landlord. Current annual fees are Television in bar area up to 120 sq m - £59.91 CD player in bar area up to 120 sq m - £149.80 Audio jukebox, bar area up to 120 sq m - £175.92 Live music per session for the first 100 persons capacity - £6.84 £6.84 x 52 weeks = £355.68 per year Quite how banning music will make the brewery more competitive with supermarkets is not immediately obvious. Some of the consequences in Yorkshire of the Smiths ban will be Folk, jazz and all party sessions will cease at Nellie's, Beverley. The White Horse Folk Club's last meeting there will be on 17 January 2005 (check our directory for details of their new venue), and see http://members.aol.com/whitehorsefolk/nellies.htm Performances of the Sheffield Carols at the Travellers in Oughtibridge will have to end. Whitby Folk Week will no longer be able to use The Plough for singarounds. Whitby Folk Club has moved to the Friendship Rowing Club. What can we do? Mr Smith is entitled to decide where he positions his pubs in the marketplace, but any loss of venues for live music is bad news. If you wish to protest and point out the economic consequences of losing thirsty musicians and audiences, write to Humphrey Smith Chairman Samuel Smith's Brewery Tadcaster North Yorkshire LS24 9SB January 2005 ******************************************************** Sam Smiths Music Ban (2) YFA's letter to the brewery: Humphrey Smith Chairman Samuel Smith's Brewery Tadcaster North Yorkshire LS24 9SB 11 January 2005 Dear Mr Smith Yorkshire Folk Arts supports, develops and raises awareness of the traditional folk arts of the British Isles within the Yorkshire and Humber region; chiefly those which operate in a public and social context, such as music, dance, song, storytelling and drama. Traditional pubs are an essential home for these activities, which draw in many customers, in addition to the performers, on nights which would otherwise not be particularly busy, especially if it is to a full 'club' event. There are also thousands of musicians and singers throughout Yorkshire who enjoy informal music sessions in pubs and folk clubs. These occasions are not just for entertainment: musicians and singers swap tunes and songs, and develop their skills and repertoire. Music sessions provide unique opportunities for new and experienced performers to practise their art, improve their performance, and keep a much-loved tradition alive and flourishing. They can also provide a welcome low-key musical background, enjoyed by many customers who dislike loud 'piped' music and who may not otherwise have heard non-mainstream music, particularly in such a relaxed setting. People who like real, live music typically like real beer in traditional pubs. They form a loyal group of thirsty customers. They're already worried that the Licensing Act will restrict their choice of venues, and so I was especially sorry to hear of your decision to ban music in your pubs. Musicians will lose not just famous venues such as Nellie's (The White Horse Inn, Beverley, East Yorkshire) - where I've enjoyed many a pint and many a tune during the last 34 years - but they will also be excluded from many local pubs; a sad loss to them, to music and to the tradition of the pub as a social centre. I respect your right to choose which facilities you offer in your premises. I sympathise with any landlord who may face increased fees because of bureaucratic changes (which, incidentally, we have campaigned against and will continue to do so). But I hope I may persuade you to think again. The fallout from this decision will be a substantial reduction in opportunities for live music in Yorkshire pubs. Folk arts are an essential part of our heritage: it's more important than ever to keep Yorkshire musical traditions alive - and your pubs have an important part to play in this. Yours sincerely Paul Hudson Chairman, Yorkshire Folk Arts Both above letters are from the Yorkshire Folkarts site. |
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15 Oct 09 - 07:53 AM (#2746419) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: Les from Hull Malc - I'm not blaming Sam Smith's for the loss of the Folk Club, I'm just saying that it has turned from a pub I used to like to a pub I now don't like. It's nothing to do with the music, but the pricing structure attracts a different clientele. |
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15 Oct 09 - 08:21 AM (#2746438) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle I thought that Folk Union One Folk Club died long after it moved from the Blue Bell and therefore could not have been anything to do with Humphrey Smith. I think I am correct in staing that the club had to move from the Blue Bell because the Council (??) wanted to extend the Market Hall. Folk Union One died whilst it was at the New Clarence on Charles Street. It died because of apathy of the folk fraternity or it may have been the singing of Malcolm ????? |
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15 Oct 09 - 09:39 AM (#2746505) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: Les from Hull Bit of thread creep here... One of the reasons that Folk Union One moved from the Blue Bell was the then landlord's refusal to let anyone in who was under 18, although the upstairs room we used didn't have a bar. I'm not sure what the legal position was then, but it came to a head when Sean Cannon was refused entry for his child, who traveled with him and his wife to gigs. Wife and child had to spend the evening sitting in the car. This would be about 1982 when Sean was joining the Dubliners. Certainly there was apathy at the New Clarence, also people were moving further away from Hull City Centre. Nothing to do with Malcolm's singing at all! It was probably mine. |
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15 Oct 09 - 09:12 PM (#2747103) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey Les I'm not having a go but that is not what you said regarding the Bluebell and you invoked the folk angle. Incidentally your singing was a lot better than some I have heard in recent times - but then what do I know? cheers |
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18 Oct 09 - 04:15 PM (#2747421) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: Aeola There will always be someone ( Humph ) who takes what may often seem the wrong route but then there are always other open doors. I suspect that whatever happens 'Folk Music' will continue whilst there are people around, as will with all types of music! |
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02 Nov 09 - 03:49 PM (#2758156) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: Young Buchan My name it Sam Smith, I sell beer, I sell beer. My name it Sam Smith, I sell beer. My name it Sam Smith, and my problem it is this: People sing when they get pissed on my beer, on my beer. People sing when they get pissed on my beer. So I'm going to cut it out, you shall hear, you shall hear. So I'm going to cut it out, you shall hear. I'm going to cut it out; you can vomit, fight or shout But one ballad and you're out, out of here, out of here. But one ballad and you're out, out of here. And if Cecil Sharp himself came round here, came round here. And if Cecil Sharp himself came round here. If Cecil Sharp himself was restored to life and health I would boot him out myself, never fear, never fear. I would boot him out myself, never fear. And if when to heaven I go from down here, from down here, And if when to heaven I go from down here, If when to heaven I go, angels harp a psalm or two I'll just boot them down Below, never fear, never fear. I'll just boot them down Below, never fear. |
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02 Nov 09 - 07:20 PM (#2758338) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: agingcynic I busk therefore I am |
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03 Nov 09 - 07:14 AM (#2758573) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: GUEST,Roger Knowles On this deep subject may I add my contribution? Once a month I hold my Americana music night at my local pub - £2.70p for a pint of lager. Other various days of the month I attend one of Humphrey's establishments and drink my lager at £1.66p per pint. Hey, folks, adapt, improvise, overcome!! |
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03 Nov 09 - 07:32 AM (#2758579) Subject: RE: Humphrey Smith - destroyer of British folk music From: theleveller Young Buchan LOL!!!! |
