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18 Oct 09 - 02:30 PM (#2747326) Subject: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Bob the Postman This will seem like a dumb question to those of you who already know the answer, but I don't know the answer and I've been fooled before by British surnames. Does Brother Gaughan's surname rhyme with "coughin'", "snoggin'", or even for all I know "Marjoriebanks"? |
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18 Oct 09 - 02:35 PM (#2747332) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: BobKnight "Coughin" does it for me, and I'm Scottish frew and frew mate!! Well, at least it's not Chalmondley, or Featherstonehaugh. :) For those who don't realise "Marjoriebanks" is pronounced "Marshbanks." |
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18 Oct 09 - 02:35 PM (#2747334) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: MGM·Lion Sort of like "coughin'", but with the 'gh' pronounced like the 'ch' in "loch". So, phonetically, nearest I can render it is "Gochan". [Come to think of it, the 'gh' is so pronounced in Boys Of The Lough.] Marjoriebanks no good — try Cholmondeley or Featherstonehaugh. |
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18 Oct 09 - 02:36 PM (#2747336) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Santa If he was English, it would have been pronounced "Gorn"; but if I may, as a mere Englishman, attempt a Scottish pronunciation, I understand it is pronounced "Gockan". But I look forward to enlightenment. |
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18 Oct 09 - 02:36 PM (#2747337) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: MGM·Lion Bob Knight — what's that they used to say about gr8 minds! |
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18 Oct 09 - 02:53 PM (#2747357) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Rasener Gockan |
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18 Oct 09 - 03:02 PM (#2747363) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Chris Green At the risk of thread hijack, he's playing in Coventry on November 12th at Maudslay Thursday as part of his winter tour. And my understanding is that it's pronounced 'gochan', with a short 'o' and the 'ch' being pronounced as in 'loch'. I hope that's right, 'cos I'm MCing the night! :) |
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18 Oct 09 - 03:06 PM (#2747365) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: BobKnight MtheGM - The thought had crossed my mind. :) |
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18 Oct 09 - 03:09 PM (#2747368) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: BobKnight Sorry - I didn't have my thinking head on with my original reply - "ch" as in loch. I just say that naturally, and don't have to think about it - well... that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. |
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18 Oct 09 - 04:02 PM (#2747409) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Abby Sale Not actually as 'loch.' It's the soft guttural, well back in the throat and nearly unvoiced. That's why few non-guttural-language speakers can really hear it. Stress on the first sylable. In Edinburgh in years past we pronounced it Ga-hoon'. OTOH, Dick doesn't care at all how you pronounce it. |
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18 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM (#2747430) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Bob the Postman Thank you all for the prompt and helpful responses. I reckon my sassenach vocal apparatus can just about manage a softly-voiced guttural if I don't think about it too much in advance. |
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18 Oct 09 - 05:41 PM (#2747490) Subject: RE: Folklore: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Don Firth Some years ago, when my local NPR station broadcast "Thistle and Shamrock" on Saturday afternoons, I believe I heard Fiona Ritchie pronounce it like "loch," but the "ch" a bit softer, as in "Bach." Don Firth |
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18 Oct 09 - 05:58 PM (#2747500) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Steve Shaw "That good bloke from Leith" should cut it. |
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18 Oct 09 - 06:31 PM (#2747524) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Jeri I have a theory that we can all make that guttural 'ch' sound but most non native 'chhhh'ers just feel silly trying. Like when I was in France I was scared to speak French because my accent would have been horrible and I believe French people were mean. (This was after an incident involving trying to get water in a restaurant, but I learned that was a cultural taboo.) |
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18 Oct 09 - 06:36 PM (#2747526) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Steve Shaw Just be careful you don't say "Dick Gorn" like an Aussie. Everyone will think you're asking whether Richard has left. |
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18 Oct 09 - 07:33 PM (#2747568) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: BobKnight Abby Sale - loch IS pronounced with the soft "guttural" as you call it. I think the right linguistic term is an "unvoiced velar fricative" and being Scots I use that sound for both loch and for Gaughan. Mind you, I could be wrong with the technical term - it's been a long time since Uni. :) |
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18 Oct 09 - 07:44 PM (#2747577) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Tattie Bogle Gohh-han. But as Steve Shaw has (maybe with good knowledge, maybe unwittingly) suggested - That bloke from Leith - NOT Edinburgh - as folk from Leith consider themselves a race apart, and that Leith is not part of Edinburgh! They are Leithers! |
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18 Oct 09 - 07:53 PM (#2747584) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Steve Shaw I never do anything wittingly wittingly, I assure you. :-) |
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18 Oct 09 - 08:16 PM (#2747604) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Betsy Dick "Gockan" surely wouldn't upset Dick if announced by (say)an Anglo M.C. That's probably the best we Anglo's can do. It's a bit like everyones British /American (and other English tongues) of pronouncing version of Van Gogh - we all have a version which we think is somewhere near. I don't think Dick would get bent out of shape to hear Gockan. He's far above all that. Fabulous fella and performer. |
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18 Oct 09 - 08:20 PM (#2747610) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Tattie Bogle He'd probably be very amused that this conversation is absorbing and exercising the minds of so many of us! |
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18 Oct 09 - 08:30 PM (#2747614) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Bob the Postman But "Featherstonehaugh" is pronounced "fluffy", right? I'm a bit astonished that this thread is getting more action than any other thread I've ever started. |
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18 Oct 09 - 09:02 PM (#2747635) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Abby Sale Jeri - a short story, One day during my summer in Paris I asked a couple of business-type Frenchmen if they could direct me to a certain street. Three times they asked me to repeat it then said to each other the classic Oi! These Americans with their atrocious accents, who could understand them. Just then a Chinese student (from China, ye see) stopped & asked if he could help. His French accent was thick, thick with Chinese, nearly comic - and in very halting French (nearly as bad as my own) he indicated the street was just two blocks over. The Frenchmen shrugged their shoulders and walked on. I readily found the street where directed. It still strikes me that The Chinese feller understood me easily and not the French. (No, they didn't really say "Oi") I'm sure that Gaughan has said on several occasions that he didn't care how you pronounce his name. Further, he holds that it's far better to render a song into English or USian than to inflict on your audience a poor Scottish accent. I don't know about that - you'd often have to be approximately as good a poet as the song writer to get some of the meanings across. Of course the issue of communicating that meaning to a non-Scots audience is an old problem, with which many have struggled. I'm pretty sure I've heard 'loch' pronounced with both hard and soft guttural depending on where the speaker is from in Scotland. I won't bet too much on it though. |
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18 Oct 09 - 09:32 PM (#2747643) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Jeri Thanks Abby. I think people base things on what they're used to, and if they're used to perfect accents, they fall short when faced with a difference. It's why I can remember familiar names such as Mike or Eleanor, but have problems remembering Sun Hae or Meeflon. Then again, some folks focus on what's wrong and forget why they're listening and others seek communication. And I think you should know, when Dick was coming over to the US, I never quite had the whatsits to call him 'Dick Gahoon', but I think he would have known it was all your fault. |
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19 Oct 09 - 03:04 AM (#2747737) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Declan British names??? Gaughan is an Irish name :-) In Ireland the name is usually pronounced as go'-han (go' as in got) but in Scotland the gh is pronounced with a hard g, so as far as I know he pronounces it with a gh as in Lough himself - so that's normally how I say it when I'm referring to him. |
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19 Oct 09 - 07:40 PM (#2748361) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Tattie Bogle Egh? Wghat? |
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19 Oct 09 - 07:43 PM (#2748364) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Folknacious His pronouncements are better than his pronunciation! |
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20 Oct 09 - 09:10 AM (#2748644) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Bob the Postman I went with the soft-pedalled unvoiced velar fricative, but on play-back it sounds more like a stop: "Gawkin'". By the time all you folks had advised me I was almost as confused as when I first asked the question. Thanks again. You can pronounce my name any old way you like as long as you spell it right on the cheque. |
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20 Oct 09 - 12:14 PM (#2748759) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Jim McLean Ca' me anythin' but don't ca' me ower a dyke. (An old Scottish expression). |
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23 Oct 09 - 08:28 PM (#2751452) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Declan Your ower is a dyke :-) |
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24 Oct 09 - 05:40 AM (#2751552) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: OldPossum From the horse's mouth! |
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24 Oct 09 - 06:55 AM (#2751587) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Vic Smith ROYAL OAK Station Street, Lewes Enquiries:- (01273) 478124 or 881316 Email tinvic@globalnet.co.uk. THURSDAYS 8.pm START *********************************** November 19th * £7.00 * DICK GAUGHAN A passionate, utterly committed performer who has been at the top of the tree on the folk scene for decades now. Why not come along and 1] enjoy of his truly outstanding performances 2] ask him yourself to settle the matter |
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24 Oct 09 - 10:44 AM (#2751674) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Bonzo3legs At every Dick Gaughan gig I've been to, I thought subtitles would be helpful, and others have agreed. I did understand the odd word like Calvinism and John Muir! |
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24 Oct 09 - 12:14 PM (#2751711) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: GUEST,Ulsterman I'd pronounce it gaugh-an where the augh is the soft clearing of the throat, not the harsh 'gauk' or the softer 'goch' - as in Lough rather than lock or loch. For sheer gibberish try Ulster Scots - incomprehensible even to one of it's own.. but it makes sense with practice! I quote: "Bout ye! We bid ye welcome tae Ulster-Scots where we scrieve the aul tongue an leid alang wi promoting an fostering understandin...." Yikes! Any yin wi a plein agin me fur thon, scrieve unner! |
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24 Oct 09 - 04:26 PM (#2751920) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Jim McLean Bonzo3legs, do you mean Thomas Muir of Huntershill? |
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24 Oct 09 - 08:43 PM (#2752065) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Declan I think Bonzo is referring to Redwood Cathedral. I've never had much problem understanding Dick's lyrics in his songs, maybe that's down to years of listening to Scottish accents on various UK TV Channels (where the Scots sometimes get a look in, if only as villains or Glasgow based pollis men - Theres been a murrrderr!). |
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25 Oct 09 - 08:09 PM (#2752676) Subject: RE: Dick Gaughan pronunciation From: Tattie Bogle Just listened to Mike Harding's programme from last Weds: used the usual English pronunciation of Gockan! It is actually very hard to say a soft gh or ch unless you've learned it at an early age:ma Scottish mither had a fit when she heard me say LOCK Lomond at the age of 5, so my pronunciation was re-educated at the age where you can still change it! |