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25 Nov 09 - 07:54 PM (#2773810) Subject: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Acorn4 This week Leicester City Council began demolishing the historic "Bowstring Bridge" in the West End of Leicester, and closed down a successful thriving pub, the "Pump and Tap", which has hosted live music for many years. This is because of a dodgy deal with De Montfort University who want to build a sports centre and turn Leicester into a flat-pack city for students ignoring the wishes of local residents. The link below shows the last night at the pub with a great performance by Phil Riley which outlines the whole dreadful saga:- http://vimeo.com/7741799 |
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25 Nov 09 - 08:02 PM (#2773816) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Acorn4 Third time lucky - I'm sober, honestly:- http://vimeo.com/7741799 Fingers crossed! |
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25 Nov 09 - 08:12 PM (#2773820) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Ruth Archer I've been following the stories about De Montfort Hall on the Leicester Mercury website, and so I was aware of this row over the demolition of the bridge, but I assumed they were talking about Bow Bridge. I never knew anything about Bowstring Bridge, though now I've seen the pictures I rfealise I used to see it regularly while at DMU. IMO, it's not particularly attractive...why has there been such a fight over its destruction? |
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26 Nov 09 - 04:33 AM (#2773939) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Acorn4 I think it's because Leicester has suffered from 150 years of civic vandalism, being under the tender care of the whig/liberal nonconformists in the 19th century, being gutted by trendy architects in the sixties and now this lot. In any other place, it would probably have gone unchallenged, it's just that Leicester has so little of historic interest left. The bridge was part of a footpath the "Great Central Way" which led out into the country and the "Pump and Tap" a thriving local. The bridge was , probably deliberately, allowed to go to rack and ruin so the Council could claim it was unsafe. Local people regarded it as the "gateway" into the West End of the city. De Montfort University have alreday scarred some parts of the city centre with architectural monstrosities and the town is beecoming all "glass and glitter" and resembling a Mondriaan painting. Thank God for the people! |
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26 Nov 09 - 05:12 AM (#2773955) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Acorn4 Public opinion:- Flatpack City |
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26 Nov 09 - 05:57 AM (#2773968) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Ruth Archer The new blue building next to the old Magazine Gateway is a real shame - it dwarfs and renders almost irrelevant the Gateway, which was a real landmark in that part of town. Of course, the 60s cut an ugly swathe right through the old Medieval heart of the city - not to mention the Roman forum etc that were carved up at the time. The most archaeologically and historically important bit of the city was effectively marginalised and much of it was lost. Which is really shit. I didn't realise it was things like that which underpinned the protests about Bowstring Bridge. I hadn't really been in Leicester very much for the past few years, but now I'm doing a bit of teaching at DMU again, I cannot believe just how much the city has changed in that short time. |
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26 Nov 09 - 06:23 AM (#2773979) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: GUEST,JeremyRS The owner of the adjacent pub, the Pump & Tap, sold the freehold of his land to DMU six years ago for £275K. Had he not done so development on the site wouldn't have been viable. Furthermore, English Heritage have turned down six requests to list the bridge because they didn't consider it of sufficient merit. If, and I appreciate that in the current economic climate it is an if, the sports centre and swimming pool are built they will benefit the community rather more than an ugly obcolete bridge. |
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26 Nov 09 - 07:10 AM (#2773995) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Acorn4 No one is arguing about the benefits of the swimming pool, just that it could have gone somewhere else. English Heritage failed to take into account the emotional attachment to pub and bridge of the people in the West End -this is all a part of "heritage" surely! |
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26 Nov 09 - 07:21 AM (#2773998) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) "English Heritage failed to take into account the emotional attachment to pub and bridge of the people in the West End -this is all a part of "heritage" surely!" Acorn4, of course not! Heritage only ever becomes something 'worthy', once safely isolated from the direct interests of grubby little ordinary people and the local community! |
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26 Nov 09 - 08:30 AM (#2774032) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Ruth Archer I don't think that's particularly fair. How well do you know Leicester, Crowsister? Cities change - inevitably, someone's history and someone's heritage is lost, but things do change, and often they must. As long as change in effected sensitively (unlike the situation I described in Leicester in the 60s, for example, and some of the more recent behemoths), the compromises can make people's lives better. Bowstring Bridge is, IMHO, actually quite ugly. The bit of the city it serves is pretty shabby, albeit lively. If the landlord of the pub sold up, clearly this development was more or less inevitable. Hopefully the facilities that will replace Bowstring Bridge will be of more use to the community than the bridge, and will help to make their lives better. And then, in 60 or 70 years' time, the great-grandkids of the current protesters can protest about the city wanting to tear down the old DMU baths that they remember swimming in when they were kids. :) I'm glad it's not Bow Bridge, anyway - that's quite pretty and has some nice local folklore attached to it. |
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26 Nov 09 - 09:27 AM (#2774088) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Acorn4 Although Bow Bridge is probably not now recognisable as the one you knew - no one really objected to this as it was common sense given the traffic. I wish they'd pull down the Holiday Inn. |
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26 Nov 09 - 03:44 PM (#2774370) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Paul Burke A better development would have been to reinstate the Great Central Railway for its originally intended purpose- a high speed rail link to Europe via the Channel Tunnel. Some vision for the 1890's! That would have kickstarted economic development in Leicester worth a hundred leisure centres. But I bet some council clique have got grubby fingers in some developer's pie. |
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26 Nov 09 - 05:01 PM (#2774423) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Ruth Archer I think it probably is the same one, Acorn4. I only stopped working in Leicester about 4 years ago (and am back now - tomorrow, in fact). Yes, the Holiday Inn is a total abomination. I don't like the look of the new Highcross - I've not been inside it yet. I used to find the bloody Shires overwhelming! Thinking about popping in next week after work for a mooch round... |
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26 Nov 09 - 05:05 PM (#2774431) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Ruth Archer Anyway - the Charlotte is surely a much greater loss to the city than the Bowstring Bridge! |
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26 Nov 09 - 06:35 PM (#2774498) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Edthefolkie Funny how these bridges magically become unsafe innit? In the 1980s British Rail claimed Ribblehead viaduct was going to fall down within 5 years unless about £5 million was spent on it - and that as a result the Settle and Carlisle line would have to be closed. Then the Minister of Transport told BR they couldn't close the line, BR spent about £250,000 on the viaduct, and surprise! - it's still there. The Great Central saga is one of missed opportunities in the 1960s though - it's far too late to cry over one bridge now. A perfectly good bridge over the Trent was demolished years ago, the viaducts and tunnels in Nottingham could have been used for a north-south tram route - and there's loads more. There just wasn't the will to retain important structures then, and the old route is in such a state now that it simply can't be used as the basis of a high speed line. Gone Completely, as they say |
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26 Nov 09 - 07:14 PM (#2774517) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Acorn4 Ruth, The good news is that the Charlotte is going to be re-opening apparently, so it's not all doom and gloom. And the old Phoenix looks like it will soon be running music again! |
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27 Nov 09 - 06:41 AM (#2774778) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: GUEST,JeremyRS As I understand it the Charlotte will be closing very soon. The people putting on the music at the moment only have a six month lease and the owner submitted a planning application to turn it into flats about a fortnight after giving them the lease. The old Phoenix will definitely be reopening early-ish next year for music. |
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27 Nov 09 - 07:33 AM (#2774802) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Ruth Archer Really? REALLY??? That's amazing! I'm sure all you Leicesterites/East Midlanders know that the Phoenix was only ever meant to be a temporary venue when it opened - what - 30 years ago now? I thought the whole point of the new development in the cultural quarter was to finally shut the old building down! I've had some great times there, both attending and promoting. I'm so pleased that it will be re-opening. Jeremy, can you tell us more? Will it be under the auspices of the council, or is an independent buyer/promoter taking it on? Will it still be fixed/tiered, or are they changing the seating? What sort of music? How will this impact on The Musician? (Factoid: Sue Townsend of Adrian Mole fame, then a single mum living in Leicester, got her start by taking part in a writing workshop/competition at Phoenix Arts!) I thought the Charlotte had already shut, to be honest. And there is certainly a sign on the building which announces it's going to be converted to flats... |
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27 Nov 09 - 07:48 AM (#2774807) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) I bought some brawn a while back, it tasted ... yuck! How can you tell if brawn is good brawn, and what do you do with it/eat it with? |
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27 Nov 09 - 07:49 AM (#2774808) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) How daft, I meant to put that elsewhere.. |
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27 Nov 09 - 07:50 AM (#2774810) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Ruth Archer God, I love it. Spread it on hot toast, that's my advice. You can get brawn in Leicester, by the way, but I suspect you meant to post to a different thread... :) |
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27 Nov 09 - 09:59 AM (#2774876) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: GUEST,JeremyRS Ruth, the linky thing (that is the technical term isn't it?) doesn't seem to want to go to the Leicester Mercury so the key bits are below. Details and practicalities obviously still to be sorted out but I believe there's a provisional opening date pencilled in for early next year. Might put some stuff on there myself once the arrangements are sorted. Leicester College will be working with some of the city's top music promoters to run the original Phoenix Arts Centre, it was announced today. The college, along with Andy Wright, former Charlotte manager, Darren Nockles, who runs the Musician, and Magic Teapot promoters Ian Baker and Pete Groschl, was one of three bidders to submit an application to Leicester City Council in the summer. It has now been announced as the successful bid and the consortium will take over the Upper Brown Street building on a five-year lease. The college, which was recently awarded National Skills Academy Founder status, will use the venue to extend its performing arts training. The venue will also put on live music. The live music will be co-ordinated by Mr Wright and his colleagues – the Leicester Alliance of Music Promoters. Under the agreement, the college will also work with social enterprise Stride, which put in an unsuccessful bid along with musicians who used the venue. |
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27 Nov 09 - 10:04 AM (#2774883) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: GUEST,JeremyRS To add a bit more I think the intention is to keep it either completely seated or have the first few rows removable to create a standing space but that would depend on money and you'd probably have to raise the stage a bit too. As far as impact on The Musician goes there's obviously some overlap but more in terms of customers budgets I think. The Phoenix is about 260 all seated so you can both attract a different crowd and put on things that wouldn't really work at the Musician. What sort of music? I don't think anything is ruled out, whatever works in the venue and people are prepared to do, hence my eying it up for a gig or two. |
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27 Nov 09 - 10:11 AM (#2774889) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Ruth Archer Thanks, Jeremy. Now I know Darren Nockles and Pete Groschl are involved, I've got a much better idea of what kind of thing they're hoping to do. That's really great news - here's hoping they make a success of it! Wonder if there's room on board for another folk-head... :) |
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27 Nov 09 - 10:21 AM (#2774896) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: GUEST,JeremyRS Quite possibly, though haven't you got a festival to run :-) To be honest I was thinking the same myself... |
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27 Nov 09 - 01:49 PM (#2775023) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Ruth Archer You know what they say: you want to get something done, ask a busy person. :) |
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27 Nov 09 - 05:54 PM (#2775159) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Rafflesbear superb detail and photos here of the Great Central Railway remains in Leicester Great Central Railway much less known and virtually totally obliterated is the Belgrave Road terminus of the Great Northern Railway in Leicester Belgrave Road Station (scroll to the bottom of the page) It would be a shame if the GCR was also to disappear without trace - there are still so many tantalising glimpses |
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27 Nov 09 - 06:15 PM (#2775172) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Rafflesbear and how did the Euston Street industrial estate get built across the possible connection for the Burton - Coalville - Leicester railway to be reopened to passengers - a line that runs just a free kick away from the Walkers Stadium ? |
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28 Nov 09 - 10:38 AM (#2775537) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Dave Roberts The closure of the Great Central was a disaster for the country's transport infrastructure. Ever since it went proposals have been put forward to replace it. I'd like to think that in these(slightly)more enlightened times the closure of nearly all of a major main line would be unthinkable. |
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28 Nov 09 - 04:32 PM (#2775747) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: Rafflesbear "In the 1980s British Rail claimed Ribblehead viaduct was going to fall down within 5 years unless about £5 million was spent on it - and that as a result the Settle and Carlisle line would have to be closed. Then the Minister of Transport told BR they couldn't close the line, BR spent about £250,000 on the viaduct, and surprise! - it's still there." Like the Barmouth Bridge on the Cambrian coast line |
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28 Nov 09 - 06:13 PM (#2775794) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Heritage From: GUEST,Lox "it's not particularly attractive...why has there been such a fight over its destruction?" Because it fits national heritage criteria more than adequately. It isn't very attractive because it has been left to rot. A little imagination and some developer could have easily turned it into something amazing without tearing it down - just as happened with the statue of liberty building. It loks like DMU and the council have a muually beneficial relationship that doesn't have much to do with either democracy or public interest. The council ignored both the will of the public (this was the biggest campaign on any similar issue in the midlands in around 30 years) and ignored the criteria by which property is assessed for protection. |
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02 Dec 09 - 04:12 PM (#2778874) Subject: RE: Obit: Leicester's Railway Heritage From: Rafflesbear this one is definitely not for the faint hearted demolition |