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12 Dec 09 - 04:10 PM (#2787062) Subject: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: GUEST,anonymous member needs advice Hello. Please understand our need for anonymity. In the UK, do I have any right of disclosure of information, and how would I go about discovering the formal mental health records of an adult sibling, in order to try to help positively resolve a big family crisis ? The well-being of our elderly mother is being affected by all the anxiety. But she is in denial of the situation and evasively refuses to discuss my siblings past mental health history and hospitalization about 20 years ago for what I suspect was at least 'self harming'. Needless to say, my sibling is not being co-operative; and seemingly oblivious to the problems caused to the rest of the family by his/her negative self obsessed behaviour. Thanks mudcat friends. |
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12 Dec 09 - 04:15 PM (#2787065) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: GUEST,999 Too bad Richard Bridge no longer comes to Mudcat. He'd have known. |
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12 Dec 09 - 04:15 PM (#2787066) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: John MacKenzie If you mean disclosure of medical information, then the answer is no. All transactions between doctor and patient are confidential. Not even parents have a right to disclosure, if the person concerned is over 18. |
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12 Dec 09 - 06:06 PM (#2787137) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Liz the Squeak A court order for disclosure may be obtained in special circumstances, but this doesn't sound special enough, sorry. LTS |
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12 Dec 09 - 09:21 PM (#2787203) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: wysiwyg But one can often arrange a nonversation with other professionals who may have some anecdotal knowledge, such as parsons, teachers, co-workers, etc. ~S~ |
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12 Dec 09 - 10:59 PM (#2787228) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: GUEST,counselor logged out for obvious reasons If you could describe the "negative self-obsessed behavior" a bit more you might get some useful advice. |
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12 Dec 09 - 11:10 PM (#2787232) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Stilly River Sage With the original questioner and the counselor both logged out, they can't identify each other to send PMs without identifying each other in the forum. If you want to discuss this further amongst yourselves and not on a public thread, I'll offer to act as intermediary and you can each PM me and I'll point you at each other. If that will help. I'm guessing this conversation would be about the behavior, and it would take someone else to discuss the legalities in the UK. (I see Richard posted in late October--did he decide to go away?) SRS |
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12 Dec 09 - 11:37 PM (#2787239) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Janie Don't have a clue about the laws in the UK, but it is likely they are very similar regarding protected health information. Here in the USA laws vary somewhat from State to State, but medical records and mental health records, especially, are very protected. Without a consent signed by the client, I can not give any indication as to whether an individual is in treatment, or has been in treatment, much less any information regarding diagnosis, treatment, or treatment issues. There are a couple of exceptions. In the event of a medical or psychiatric emergency, I can release information to insure the client's health, safety or well-being. But the information available to me must strongly suggest it is a bonafide emergency. The information released is the minimal amount of information required to get the person to some place where they can be evaluated for hospitalization. Family dysfunction or distress that does not meet the level of imminent dangerousness to self or others on the part of the client would not be sufficient grounds to release information without a signed consent by the client. |
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13 Dec 09 - 07:22 AM (#2787318) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: VirginiaTam Richard Bridge has taken a leave of absence from the forum for reasons of his own. I am not certain what type of lawyer he is. It may be that he is not up on medical confidentiality perspective. Best bet is to discuss this face to face with lawyer you know. |
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13 Dec 09 - 08:37 AM (#2787347) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Morticia the situation here in the UK is as Janie stated in the US. You, as a family member have no rights over someone else's private information in regard to treatment or other interventions, under the MHA {1983}. Obviously I don't know how it would help you to know in any case, surely the situation as it is now is what requires dealing with, not past history. If you are suggesting or feeling this person may benefit from mental health interventions now, there are a number of routes into services but I would need to know more detail to help. PM if I can be of further assisstance. |
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13 Dec 09 - 10:46 PM (#2787767) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Jim Dixon Nonversation? Is that where a person says: "You didn't hear this from me...."? |
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13 Dec 09 - 11:15 PM (#2787775) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Lox I have recent experience in the English family court (county court) in which one of the partys mental health history was required for the case to progress. The judge could not order disclosure, but requested and recommended it to the relevant party as a way of clarifying that issue. Disclosure could not be granted without consent by way of a form signed by the party whose mental health was in question. It would have been noted had consent been refused as the court would have been concerned as to what the motivation for refusal was, but the judge did not have the power to order the release of the records in question. It all depends on the dispute and the reasons, but in the case of a family dispute it may be that you have to accept grim realities and come to terms with them and develop more realistic expectations for the future about how things are likely to progress. |
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14 Dec 09 - 09:11 AM (#2787992) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: wysiwyg JD, a nonversation is much more sophisticated than that. It's two pro's using certain words their counterparts will understand to mean certain things that need not be specific to the situation not being discussed. It's much more adroit than even using a "hypothetical." Hard to describe, but many pro's will know what I am talking about. They just may now know that a word has been coined about it, or have a different coined word. ~S~ |
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14 Dec 09 - 09:33 AM (#2788011) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: wysiwyg The well-being of our elderly mother is being affected by all the anxiety. But she is in denial of the situation and evasively refuses to discuss my siblings past mental health history and hospitalization about 20 years ago for what I suspect was at least 'self harming'. Responding to what I think is the central point in the opening post-- Assisting your mother's mental health can be done without going into the past issues and without arguing with her denial-pattern. You could just think about what she needs and be sure she's got plenty of it, such as breaktime/distraction from stressy stuff. There will usually be at least one healthy-minded person in an individual's circle who can provide some leadership on that, and any healthy good stuff goes a HUGE way toward the wellness of the person concerned. You may not know who that person is, but mum probably knows who can be counted on to take a light approach to the situation in the whole mix of the people surrounding her. A professional can consult with fam members to identify what level of help/support/encouragement is needed by mum and/or all parties. The focus, in other words, needs to be on the system, not just the part that appears most broken. ~Susan |
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14 Dec 09 - 10:09 AM (#2788032) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Lox "Needless to say, my sibling is not being co-operative; and seemingly oblivious to the problems caused to the rest of the family by his/her negative self obsessed behaviour." Sounds supiciously like some form of personality dosorder. In which case there is no treatment other than that which the the sufferer choose to undergo 'once they have acknowledged that there is a problem' Psychiatrists that i have spoken to on this subject say that in some cases sufferers develop insight later on in life, but not in most cases. The challenge that you face is to learn about these disorders, to reevaluate your expectations and to learn to find boundaries within which you can operate so that you are protected from your siblings behaviour yet you can continue to love them. This is a very difficult balance to achieve as the relationship will probably continue to be one way indefinitely. If you expect reasonable behaviour you will continue to be let down and you will be repeatedly hurt and let down. If you are realistic about how your sibling is likely to behave then you will know that when you are hurt it has no bearing on you, but iis the result of their problem, at whioch point you may drop out of the scene and minimize your losses. You must be prepared. The good times - i.e. - when everyones guard is down, is when disruptive, manipulative, self centred behaviour is most likely to strike. Your buttons will be pushed. You have to learn to recognize what is happening and politily engage evacuation plan 'A' whatever that may be. There is very little public understanding, let alone support for those who have a personality disordered loved one. There is stuff online, but don't pay for anything. You will find a very good starting point at the following link. http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/mentalhealthproblems/personalit ... snip ... "Cluster A: 'Suspicious' Paranoid * suspicious * feel that other people are being nasty to you (even when evidence shows this isn't true) * sensitive to rejection * tend to hold grudges Schizoid * emotionally 'cold' * don't like contact with other people, prefer your own company * have a rich fantasy world Schizotypal * eccentric behaviour * odd ideas * difficulties with thinking * lack of emotion, or inappropriate emotional reactions * can see or hear strange things * related to schizophrenia, the mental illness Cluster B: 'Emotional and impulsive' Antisocial, or Dissocial * don't care about the feelings of others * are easily frustrated * tend to be aggressive * commit crimes * find it difficult to make intimate relationships * impulsive - do things on the spur of the moment without thinking about them * don't feel guilty * don't learn from unpleasant experiences Borderline, or Emotionally Unstable * impulsive * find it hard to control emotions * feel bad about yourself * often self-harm, e.g. cutting yourself or making suicide attempts * feel 'empty' * make relationships quickly, but easily lose them * can feel paranoid or depressed * when stressed, may hear noises or voices Histrionic * over-dramatise events * self-centered * show strong emotions, but which change quickly and don't last long * can be suggestible * worry a lot about your appearance * crave new things and excitement * can be seductive Narcissistic * have a strong sense of your own self-importance * dream of unlimited success, power and intellectual brilliance * crave attention from other people, but show few warm feelings in return * exploit others * ask for favours that you do not then return Cluster C: 'Anxious' Obsessive-Compulsive (aka Anankastic) * worry and doubt a lot * perfectionist - always check things * rigid in what you do * cautious, preoccupied with detail * worry about doing the wrong thing * find it hard to adapt to new situations * often have high moral standards * judgemental * sensitive to criticism * can have obsessional thoughts and images (although these are not as bad as those in obsessive-compulsive disorder) Avoidant (aka Anxious/Avoidant) * very anxious and tense * worry a lot * feel insecure and inferior * have to be liked and accepted * extremely sensitive to criticism Dependent * passive * rely on others to make their own decisions * do what other people want you to do * find it hard to cope with daily chores * feel hopeless and incompetent * easily feel abandoned by others" Is this useful? |
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14 Dec 09 - 10:22 AM (#2788039) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Lox I suspect cluster 'B' myself. Sufferers tend not to be limited to one disorder, but can exhibit traits of two or three. However, key traits which are there in all cases include those which you have referred to. Just keep reading about it and learning, and at the same time teach yourself to understand that bad behaviour exhibited against you has no bearing on you and (while this is easier said than done) it should not be something that upsets you. This does not mean that you have to suffer it, quite the contrary. That is why you need to have a plan 'A' to cope with unpredictable flashpoints. |
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14 Dec 09 - 10:47 AM (#2788059) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: katlaughing Excellent points,Lox. The one thing I had to learn, after many, many years of emotional upheaval, is no matter what you might do to "fix" things for the mentally ill family member, nothing you ever do will be good enough. They have to do it themselves. I finally quit trying and things have actually been better between us. I still have to constantly set boundaries, though; they are always testing. |
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14 Dec 09 - 11:25 AM (#2788084) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Lox "I still have to constantly set boundaries, though; they are always testing." And you always will - and that knowledge must be the foundation of your approach. Would I be right in saying that Any plan which does not factor that in falls flat? It's hard always anticipating an emotional/psychological ambush, but ultimately it is the most peaceful way. And you need to set "me" time aside as part of your routine during which you switch off this early warning system which in itself is tiring. During "me" time, you turn off your mobile and go somewhere fun or relaxing and enjoy your own company or that of your true supportive friends etc. |
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14 Dec 09 - 12:25 PM (#2788120) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: katlaughing Absolutely, Lox. Sometimes I get caught without that barrier, as soon as I do, usually on the telephone, I hang up. One thing which helps me is knowing not feeding into whatever they are doing/saying, is actually healthier for both of us...they do not need my support in perpetuating negative behaviours. Well-meaning actions really cannot help that much in most cases. We just watched the movie, The Soloist, last night. It deals exactly with that helping a mentally ill person and not seeing the rewards they expected. Very good movie, imo. |
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14 Dec 09 - 02:36 PM (#2788228) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Lox " ... not seeing the rewards they expected." And then feeling resentful or taking this personally? not being able to understand? slowly realizing that this behaviour is actually an illness that requires more than idealism to treat. |
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14 Dec 09 - 03:42 PM (#2788285) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: Spleen Cringe Speaking as a mental health worker, I'd politely suggest it's best not to attempt to "diagnose" a personality disorder online on the basis of a few sentences from a family member. It's one of those diagnoses of last resort - especially as it often gets used as a reason to deny the individual so labelled a decent service... and speaking as a mental health worker, I'd also say leave the labels to the doctors and work with the person. If the OP wants to PM me for general advice, particularly re the confidentiality/disclosure issues, please do. Susan's definition of a "nonversation" is spot on, by the way! |
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14 Dec 09 - 06:13 PM (#2788388) Subject: RE: BS: Mental Health / Family Problem -advice ? From: John MacKenzie I think this is outwith the scope of Mudcat's remit. While I sympathise, having had to deal with people who fit the paranoid description, to a T, I know how life destroying it can be, if you let it. Seek professional help, if the person concerned is exhibiting dengerous behaviour, either to themselves or others, you may be able to get a doctor to have them sectioned. They will then be assessed by medical health professionals. |