BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??

18 Feb 10 - 06:08 PM (#2843635)
Subject: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, well, well...

It had to happen... In giving voice to people who are pissed off seems that one anti-tax nut has now committed a suicide terrorist attack on an IRS building...

Me thinks that the Taiban are alive and well in the USA...

(But, Boberdz... It's all Obama's fault fir, you know, being a socialist...)

Oh really??? He's a socialist??? Ya' don't say...

B~

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18 Feb 10 - 06:11 PM (#2843637)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

You have any indication it was a teaparty member, or are you just being a bigot again?


The murderer was an Obama Supporter, so the next thread should be Obama supporters are terrorists!

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18 Feb 10 - 06:19 PM (#2843649)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: olddude

Naw they are there for the beer, can't blame em ... pizza is pretty good also I heard

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18 Feb 10 - 06:19 PM (#2843651)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Bigot, bruce???

Me thinks that you are projecting here...

B~

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18 Feb 10 - 06:27 PM (#2843664)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I wish they were there for the beer, oldster... But they aren't... They are an anti-government, anti-Obama oganization and getting lots of what-would-be-expensive free PR to promote thier brand of hatred... In getting all this PR borderline pshycos who are also pissed off at the governemnt (or think think they are) feel emboldened to do some very seriously violent stuff... First ya have a guy bring a gun to an event where the presdient was about to speak and now you have a guy who is pissed off about his taxes thinkin' it's perfectly okay to attempt to do what the Oklahome City bombers did...

This is becoming a very serious situation...

B~

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18 Feb 10 - 06:30 PM (#2843668)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: McGrath of Harlow

...one anti-tax nut has not committed a suicide terrorist attack...

Shouldn't that "not" be "now"?

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18 Feb 10 - 06:34 PM (#2843672)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yes, McG.... Lexdexia strikes again...

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18 Feb 10 - 06:56 PM (#2843694)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Is Mullah Omar alive and well and posting here on the Mudcat Board?

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18 Feb 10 - 07:06 PM (#2843700)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: McGrath of Harlow

"Stack played bass, the accordion and sang for the band..."

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18 Feb 10 - 07:22 PM (#2843715)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Well there ya go. Accordion? Sure sign of terrorist mentality...

JUS' KIDDING, CAROL!!!! Don't send me to the outhouse...



A

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18 Feb 10 - 08:28 PM (#2843754)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Noun terrorist - a radical who employs terror as a political weapon

usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells

often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities

act of terrorism, terrorism, terrorist act - the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear

They don't scare me so it is my opinion that they are not a terrorist organization.

Just a group of people that are unsatisfied with their government and are using their human rights and civil rights as granted under the constitution of the US.

Everybody in the US has the same rights and I think that anyone that wants to deny them that right is a bigot.

Bigot: a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race.

Now what do you call someone who attempts to use scare tactics to create a controversy and influence people's opinion?

Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic to frighten citizens and influence their political views. It often states that if something is or is not done, a disastrous event will occur.

You might believe that the Teabaggers are using scare tactics themselves but to use scare tactics yourself means you are no different from them. The same as if you accuse Teabaggers of being a hate group and display hatred toward them.

Bobert asked and I have stated my opinion. Anybody that disagrees with me is invited to state their opinions but personal attacks and name calling just illustrates intolerance and an unwillingness to allow others to have differing opinions.

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18 Feb 10 - 08:38 PM (#2843758)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

"You might believe that the Teabaggers are using scare tactics themselves but to use scare tactics yourself means you are no different from them."

That then relegates people's motives to the trash bin.

If I defend myself when attacked, that makes me as bad as the attacker? Huh? I'm missing something.

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18 Feb 10 - 08:44 PM (#2843761)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, I find it interesting that I was automatically branded a "bigot" by one of the Mud-righties for saying exactly what alot of other folks are saying and will be saying in the coming days...

It's sad that the first thing outta of the right's mouth is condemnation of people who see what si happening here in this country, where the violent right is given media time as if it's okay to strap a gun on and camp outside where a black president is about to speak... Yet, the knee-jerk reaction from the Mud0right came almost instantly... That is why this is becomin' a very scarey country... The right thinks it's pefrectly okay to "react" to any information that makes them look bad by demonizing the messenger...
And no one is calling them on it... The media gives the right much more media time than it does the left and with that the right thinks it's okay to crash planes into government buildings... Perfectly okay!!! This is a cnacer on our society... The last thing that this guy said in the article was that "violence is the only way"... Sound familiar??? It's Osama bin Laden... It's the Taliban... These are also right winged people and organizations... They aren't progressives or the Black Panthers or Che Gevara....These are the corporate puppets....

I mean, what if I were to take a Cherokee and fly it into a Tea Party gathering??? I mean, I would be branded some revolutionary, right??? People wouldn't be sayin, "Ol' Bobert was some kinda gun-nut rightie" which by today's standards is honorable and righteous and qualify me for 36 virgins and martyrdom...

No, I would be branded a "leftest revolutionary", "a commie", or worse yet "a wacko liberal"... No virgins... No $200 or get-outta-jail-free card....Just a bad, bad person...

There are way too many folks out there who think Timothy McVey is a hero for killin' all those mean commie government workers (and their kids) but cheered when Police Chief Rizzo busted the Black Panters who were doing breakfast and health programs in Philly and marched those people down the street naked after busting them...

Hey, I don't believe that "violence is the only way" but if the righties keep their pushin' there will come a time when the left will do take a page out of the righties playbook (think Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King here) and shoot back...

It's up to the right to get a fuckin' grip before it's too late... The ball is firmly in their court...

Think 1860 here, if you like... Push comin' to shove... The last time it didn't turn out to well for them and might not next time either...

Hey, I ain't threatenin' no one here... Just time for the right to stand back and reaccess the damage they are doing to the country...

Square business... No jokin' here...

B~

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18 Feb 10 - 09:00 PM (#2843768)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Sme examples that fit your definitions, there, Sawz: spreading the word that God wants you to invade another country, because Gog and Magog are running loose out there. Getting huge numbers of folks to believe said country has NBC weapons and the means to deliver them, and threatening them with nuclear catastrophes.

Or telling folks that a scarey terrible condition is going to land on them--say "Kawmunizm" or something similar--if they figure out how to take care of each other somehow.

I'm just saying...small groups, religious excuses, scarey stories, use of extreme violence...kinda adds up.


A

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18 Feb 10 - 09:23 PM (#2843787)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The entire right wing story line is based on mythology, Amos... Everything they are trying to cram into their Tea Partier little heads are lies, lies and more lies... Everything!!! That is what is so maddening.... These poor ignorant people will believe a 100 lies told to them by a rightie before they will believe one thruth told to them be a sane moderate person...

This is outta control... What the righties are trying to do is inflict mob rule on everyone, with them as the bosses...

All, I gotta say is remember "Animal Farm"... A pig is a pig is a pig... Period...

B~

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18 Feb 10 - 09:30 PM (#2843789)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: DougR

I don't believer there is any evidence that the fellow who flew his airplane into a building is a member of any tea party, Bobert. It seems from what I've heard, he simply was a bit teed off at the IRS.

DougR

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18 Feb 10 - 09:49 PM (#2843799)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

I'm going to go with what DougR said. After having read far more than I wanted of this guy's suicide note, he just doesn't fit the profile, or talk the talk, of a Tea Pottier. For one thing he rips congress for not doing anything about health care. That's not exactly something a Tea Potty person would say.

I think he's just a crank who flipped.

O..O
=o=

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18 Feb 10 - 10:21 PM (#2843808)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Richard Bridge

I'm still trying to figure out why someone so rich he could buy his own plane felt destroyed by the IRS to the point that he committed murder by way of revenge.

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18 Feb 10 - 11:17 PM (#2843842)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"I find it interesting that I was automatically branded a "bigot" by one of the Mud-righties for saying exactly what alot of other folks are saying and will be saying in the coming days"

You are calling yourself a bigot. You are predicting and projecting.

You claim without any evidence it is a "terrorist attack" and then you use that to try to link it to the "Taiban" and then you call Obama a socialist. Furthermore you label everybody the disagrees with you a "Mud-rightie"

So far from what I gather he was pissed off over taxes and he did commit suicide by crashing his plane into an IRS building. The rest of your rant is speculation to try to pin the blame of one, perhaps emotionally distraught person to a group of people you disagree with.

If several other people do the same, and it seems like you are trying to sow the seed here, it does not mean it is true. You are already gloating over it.

If you disagree with the tea bagers why can't you simply say so and state why? It is really not so complicated. It does not require psychological manipulation, personal attacks and cheap shots.

I am not defending the tea bagers, only their right to disagree with the government and demonstrate their differences. I also defend your right to disagree with them. Seems like you want to take their rights away by hanging labels on them.

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"spreading the word that God wants you to invade another country, because Gog and Magog are running loose out there. Getting huge numbers of folks to believe said country has NBC weapons and the means to deliver them, and threatening them with nuclear catastrophes."

If that gibberish implies somehow that scare tactics are wrong I agree. If it implies scare tactics are OK then I disagree.

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19 Feb 10 - 12:43 AM (#2843871)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

How does hanging labels on them take their rights away? That's nuts.

O..O
=o=

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19 Feb 10 - 04:06 AM (#2843918)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: CarolC

I wouldn't send you to the outhouse, Amos, because you would probably enjoy it.


I feel bad for his wife and daughter. Sounds to me like this guy had a mental breakdown. His wife and daughter stayed in a hotel the night before because they said he'd completely lost it that evening.

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19 Feb 10 - 07:23 AM (#2844032)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Bobert,

"You have any indication it was a teaparty member, or are you just being a bigot again?"


The murderer was an Obama Supporter, so the next thread should be Obama supporters are terrorists! "


If you can't answer the question in the affirmative ( that you have said indication) YOU are a bigot.

Feel free to answer the question . Do not feel free to attack me for asking it: This is the second thread you have started that makes invalid associations in this bigotted manner.






"The murderer was an Obama Supporter, so the next thread should be Obama supporters are terrorists! "

This is in reference to the woman who shot and killed several people after being denied tenure. I have posted the article stating that she was an Obama supporter- which is far more than support than you have bothered in your thread posting.

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19 Feb 10 - 08:10 AM (#2844058)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, seems that this guy could have but only so much beef with the system.... That ain't no cheap airplane.... Cherokees are expensive...

The point, however, isn't whether this guy was or was not a Tea Party member... The point is that we have carved out a seperate set of rules for angry right wingers... The signs that they carry are way beyond what the left carried during the anti-war demonstrations of 2002-03 in that they are not only racist but suggest violence... And these folks have been allowed to carry weapons to a rally where the presdient was to speak... There's a dual standard here that creates this culture that the ends justify the means... It's this kind of culture that tells a murderer that's it perfectly okay to assasinate doctors...

The left never came close to having these standards... During the anti-war marches there were tens of thousnads of riot police with clubs abd sheilds and guns lining the entire route of the march... You don't see that at Tea Party rallies...

So, yeah... The system has put in place a scenerio where people feek empowered to think that violence is perfectly okay...

(Gee, Boberdz... Ain't that alot like al qeada???)

Well, yeah, it is...

B~

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19 Feb 10 - 08:17 AM (#2844063)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

So, since the Democrats have a party platform of pro-abortion, and SOME people are thus encouraged to have ( abortions), there will be no complaint if I start a thread about "The Baby-killing Democratic Party"?

I doubt if that would be allowed here- and isn't THAT a double standard?

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19 Feb 10 - 08:32 AM (#2844077)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

His wife and daughter stayed in a hotel the night before because they said he'd completely lost it that evening.

Woulda been nice thay'd called the cops & had him admitted to a psych ward for obbo as a danger to himself & others...........

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19 Feb 10 - 10:21 AM (#2844152)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: katlaughing

I'm just glad they weren't in the house when he torched it.

How does being an Obama supporter matter if one commits murder? (That's rhetorical. The idea is ridiculous.)

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19 Feb 10 - 10:32 AM (#2844164)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

kat,

I was comm4enting on Bobert making these threads implying that tea party members are terrorist or racist.

How does being a Teaparty member matter if one commits murder, one might as well ask.

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19 Feb 10 - 10:40 AM (#2844173)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Sawz:

Help with homework: the post you were uncertain of simply says that there are a good number of actions taken by Bush, Wolfowitz, Rove, Rumstead, and their cronies that fit your definition of terrorist acts, and which left a lot of Americans embedded in unreasoning fear.


A

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19 Feb 10 - 11:04 AM (#2844186)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Actually, La Raza is the real terrorist organization.

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19 Feb 10 - 11:08 AM (#2844191)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Are guitar players a terrorist group?

The pilot, Joseph Andrew Stack, who played guitar and loved country music, left a detailed suicide note, more than 3,000 words long, on a web site registered to him. In it, he describes financial stresses and a tax feud with the IRS which wiped out his retirement savings.

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19 Feb 10 - 11:13 AM (#2844194)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

LOL!! Sawz, I hope to hell you were laughing when you posted that!!


A

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19 Feb 10 - 11:43 AM (#2844219)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Are moonshiners and dope smokers a terrorist organization?

Teachey, NC - A Duplin County day care center is shut down after authorities say they found the owners selling beer & liquor without an ABC permit. Also found in the raid was a sawed-off shotgun and two gallons of moonshine.

The raid happened Saturday night at Wilson Family Day Care in Teachey.

Alcohol Law Enforcement agents and sheriff deputies say they discovered liquor, beer, moonshine, and numerous weapons at the home.

"It definitely shouldn't be around a day care facility and the majority through my course of experience in law enforcement, most of the people that frequent what we refer as joints, which are illegal alcohol establishments, possess and use narcotics and firearms," says ALE agent Kenny Simma.

Johnnie Wilson is charged with possession/sell of non tax paid alcoholic beverages, possession/sell of alcoholic beverages with no permit, possession of marijuana, possession of drug paraphernalia, and felony possession of a weapon of mass destruction (sawed-off shotgun).

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19 Feb 10 - 12:36 PM (#2844271)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

"Joseph Andrew Stack mocks the American health care system as a profit-driven joke; attacks George W. Bush 'and his cronies'; called the Catholic church names; demonstrates his complete hatred for a Reagan tax cut; decries the loss of union-negotiated pensions; and ends the whole screed with a mocking of capitalism:

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

The first 'creed' is an actual quote from Karl Marx, unparodied by Stack. The second is obviously a mocking of the capitalistic system. He decided to close his letter attacking the private sector with a quote mocking the free market.

Yeah, that sounds like your typical Tea Party attendant. You know how they love quoting Marx, decrying corporate profits, calling for profits to be removed from the health care industry, and attacking President Bush. Why, you can't hurl a cat without hitting a protester with a sign approvingly quoting the father of Communism.

Did he attack the IRS? Sure. But is anyone under the terribly mistaken impression that only right-wingers despise the Internal Revenue Service? One of Stack's biggest criticisms is that the rich aren't taxed enough and that religious groups are exempted. He went after Reagan tax cuts. Does that sound like criticism of the agency from a right-wing perspective? Hardly." ~ Stephan Tawney on Thu, Feb 18, 2010

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19 Feb 10 - 12:48 PM (#2844279)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: CarolC

Personally, I think the question of whether or not the tea party is a terrorist organization deserves discussion on its own, separate from any discussion about this guy who flew his airplane into a building. And I think this Stack guy and what he did deserves discussion separate from any discussion about the tea party. It's unfortunate that the two issues have been conflated here in this thread.

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19 Feb 10 - 12:56 PM (#2844292)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

Perhaps you could ask Bobert why these two separate issues were 'conflated'?

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19 Feb 10 - 01:00 PM (#2844294)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: CarolC

Looks to me like he jumped to a conclusion. It may be an honest mistake, though, given the rhetoric of a lot of tea party members.

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19 Feb 10 - 01:04 PM (#2844297)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: katlaughing

Bruce,

How does being a Teaparty member matter if one commits murder, one might as well ask.

From my earlier posting:

And in Indiana, Richard Behney, a Republican Senate candidate, told Tea Party supporters what he would do if the 2010 elections did not produce results to his liking: "I'm cleaning my guns and getting ready for the big show. And I'm serious about that, and I bet you are, too."

Branding Mr. Obama a tyrant, Mr. Stewart said, constructs a logic that could be used to rationalize violence. "When people start wearing guns to rallies, what's the next thing that happens?" Mr. Stewart asked.

Obama supporters do not call for violence, ergo...nothing to do with being a murderer.

Tea Party...load your guns and get ready to go to war within your own country. There are plenty more quotes in the NYTs article.

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19 Feb 10 - 01:36 PM (#2844323)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

...another darling of the Obama set is arrested for attempted murder and arson:

Duke lacrosse accuser charged with attempted murder, arson
Posted: Feb. 18, 2010
Updated: Feb. 18 6:31 p.m.

Durham, N.C. — Durham police late Wednesday arrested the woman who four years ago falsely accused three Duke University lacrosse players of raping her.

Crystal Mangum assaulted her boyfriend, set his clothes on fire in a bathtub and threatened to stab him, investigators said.

She was in the Durham County jail under a $1 million bond Mangum, 33, has been appointed a public defender and is scheduled to appear in court on Feb. 22.

Police charged her with attempted first-degree murder, five counts of arson, assault and battery, communicating threats, three counts of misdemeanor child abuse, injury to personal property, identity theft and resisting a public officer.

Shortly after 11:30 p.m., police received a 911 call about a domestic dispute at 2220 Lincoln St. Authorities said they believe the call came from one of the three children inside the house.

When officers arrived, they found Mangum and her boyfriend, Milton Walker, 33, fighting. According to police documents, Mangum scratched, punched and threw objects at Walker and told him, "I'm going to stab you, (expletive)!"

She then went into a bathroom and set his clothes on fire in the bathtub, police said. Officers called the fire department to put out the flames. No one was injured.

Milton was not charged, police said. The three children inside the house, ages 3, 9 and 10, were not injured.

Officers said Mangum gave them a fake name, "Marella Mangum," and age, prompting the identity theft charge. She also resisted the officers who responded to the scene, according to police documents. She has been ordered to have no contact with Walker.

Mangum – who penned her memoir, "Last Dance for Grace," in 2008 – was a student at North Carolina Central University in 2006 and also worked as an exotic dancer when she performed at the now-infamous Duke lacrosse party.

It was there, she claimed, that three white members of the team trapped her inside a bathroom and raped and sexually assaulted her.

The three players were indicted on rape and other charges on the basis of her allegations and were eventually exonerated after North Carolina's attorney general dismissed the charges.

The case ultimately cost former Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong his job and he was later disbarred. He also spent a night in jail for lying to a Superior Court judge.

Several players in the Duke lacrosse case, including Duke Unviersity and the North Carolina Attorney General's Office, declined to comment on the case.

Nifong could not be reached for comment.

"My heart goes out to her," Joseph Cheshire, who represented one of the accused lacrosse players. "Mostly, I worry about her children."

Authorities say the children are in the care of other family members.

"We hope that the courts will adjudicate this case with fairness and without bias," Vincent Clark, Mangum's publisher, said in a statement. "Nevertheless, we support Crystal in her effort to heal from abuse and past injustices,"

   Reporters: Stacy Davis, Erin Hartness
   Photographer: Jamie Munden
   Web Editors: Kelly Hinchcliffe, Kelly Gardner
   Copyright 2010 by Capitol Broadcasting Company. All rights reserved. This material may    not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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19 Feb 10 - 01:42 PM (#2844327)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,infowars.com

Do you people know how out of touch you are? Obama's bombing people in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Yemen, and meanwhile you bloviate on some small-plane crash in Texas being part of a vast right-wing conspiracy. Amazing. Listen to the rebroadcast of the Alex Jones show today at infowars.com. Jim Trafficant is talking about the real world.

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19 Feb 10 - 01:47 PM (#2844334)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

...and yet another Socialist and rabid Obama supporter:

Amy Bishop: Obama Supporter, Media Nearly Silent
By Tara Lynn Thompson

You won't find the information in a headline because she isn't a conservative. Amy Bishop, the University of Alabama shooter, is a major Obama lover. I'd call her a "supporter" but that validates what is basically an infatuation between The One and his mindless supporters, as well as The One and himself.

The news was reported by the Boston Herald in the third to last paragraph in the story.

A family source said Bishop, a mother of four children – the youngest a third-grade boy – was a far-left political extremist who was "obsessed" with President Obama to the point of being off-putting.

What I find more fascinating than her politics is the way the media has been completely silent, minus the one paragraph mention at the end of the article, about Bishop and her "off-putting" Obama love.

Should her views matter? Probably not. Once you have killed innocent people, I don't care about your reasoning or your musings or your political beliefs. I know all I need to know about you – that, when given the choice, you choose evil. You hate. And that transcends all rational thought.

However, setting that aside, it's hard to deny the media's love of blaming conservatives, talk radio, and Christians for any act of violence, discrimination, or hatred within the English speaking world. And if at some point they can prove Bishop ever willingly watched Fox News, they'll be boycotting Beck again.

This road, however, isn't a two-way street. Reporting truth is only the bias media's priority when it fits their narrative. And forget reporting. Bending truth is so much easier. Okay, forget bending. Let's call it "rewriting".

For example, James von Brunn, the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum shooter, an old guy with an ugly mug.

The liberal media attached him to conservatives and Christians all on the basis that the man was a white supremacist. (Which, by saying that, means they're also saying only whites can be Christian. Anyone pick up on that?) Not taking into account the fact Christians and conservatives absolutely deplore white supremacists. The very core of conservative values is equality for all, whether black or white or male or female or gay or straight or free thinker or drone.

The only way to obtain that equality is by individualism and not pandering to minorities or special interest groups. What the liberals call "fair" treatment, is really treating one person better than another based on their race or gender or political views. Please explain how that isn't the definition of "racism" and "bigotry".

Conservatives believe in giving each American the same opportunities to fail or succeed based on their individual work ethic, passion, ability, integrity and applauding that success.

Also, on the white supremacist narrative, let's not forget the liberals have reelected Democrat Robert Byrd to office, despite his previous membership in the Ku Klux Klan, since 1959.

During the von Brunn incident, the liberal media didn't want to report the fact the man was a hater, period. He hated everyone, including Christians, both Bush presidents, big corporations, and had even apparently planned a second shooting at the conservative Weekly Standard offices. He was also a socialist, loved Adolph Hitler, and was anti-Semitic.

Another favorite liberal tool is Scott Roeder, the man who shot and killed late-term abortionist Dr. George Tiller last May. He is also touted as a pro-lifer gone mad. Except the man had no connections to the pro-life movement. He wasn't pro-life, obvious by the fact he killed a man.

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19 Feb 10 - 02:08 PM (#2844343)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Bobez and Sawz are both off track here, trying to make generalizations out of specifics where they do not apply.

Here's the truth: SOME Obama supporters are nuts. SOME Tea-Baggers are nuts. SOME liberals are nuts and SOME conservatives are nuts. Of all these nuts, SOME are slightly nuts, some a bit more, some more nuts than that, and SOME are seriously nuts.

And of all the nuts in all these categories, SOME of those nuts are a public danger. And, possibly, SOME of those are "terrorist" oriented in the sense of using violence for political purposes.

You guys gotta learn discrimination between similarities and the recognition of differences.


A

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19 Feb 10 - 02:11 PM (#2844345)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: CarolC

There is a difference between people committing murder, who happen to support any given party or political figure (and plenty of examples of such people can be found at all points on the political spectrum), and people who are committing murder in order to make a political statement or to try to create a particular political outcome. It's fair game to include Stack in such a discussion, but people who commit crimes that are unrelated to any political considerations are irrelevant to any such discussion.

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19 Feb 10 - 02:14 PM (#2844351)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

Oh could there be more. Phil Spector endorses Obama at his murdertrial hearing:

Phil Spector endorses Obama at his murder trial hearing
July 29, 2008 | 2:49 pm

Gee, thanks, Phil.

They keep coming, these dubious endorsements. But, hey, any publicity in a political campaign -- except crooked friends, indictments, spousal abuse, etc.

Today The Times' eagle-eyed Harriet Ryan spotted Phil Spector, the famous rock entrepreneur and infamous date, showing up for a court hearing in Los Angeles wearing a very obvious "Barack Obama Rocks" pin.

Spector, you may recall, has some continuing legal troubles having to do with an actress, Lana Clarkson, turning up dead in his house after a date five years ago.

Spector says she shot herself. The prosecution suggests otherwise. A jury could not decide.

So a second second-degree murder trial is set to begin on Sept. 29, pending a higher court ruling on the presiding judge. Meanwhile, Spector and every one of those "hairs" on his head is behind Barack.

Last week in Mississippi, as The Ticket noted, 34-year-old Dale Lee Bishop, who was a participant in the 1998 claw-hammer homicide of an acquaintance, endorsed Obama just before he was executed. Bishop was under the impression that Obama opposes the death penalty, which he does much of the time but not always.

And in April actress Jane Fonda, who has now infuriated two generations of military veterans by her manning of an anti-aircraft gun battery against U.S. planes over Hanoi during the Vietnam War, volunteered to a TMZ cameraman that she too was going to vote for Obama.

Of course, Obama also got the backing of notorious good guy Tom Hanks, among other Hollywood types. So that really helps.

-- Andrew Malcolm

Photo credit: Nick Ut / Associated Press

---

19 Feb 10 - 02:22 PM (#2844361)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Notice that I did not pose my question with any hate or rhetoric?

No conflation. No veiled accusations.

Only asking if there could be some sort of connection.

Only asking if you can condemn an entire group by the actions of one person or even a few people from that group.

I have nothing against guitar players. I admire guitar players from Atkins to ZZ.

---

19 Feb 10 - 02:22 PM (#2844362)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: CarolC

pdq, if we're going to explore all crimes committed by any person who endorses any political figure, we're going to have to devote 24 hours per day 7 days a week to such an endeavor. Just as many people who support Republicans commit crimes as people who support Democrats.

As I said before there's a huge difference between being a supporter of a political figure or party and committing a crime, and committing a crime in order to promote a particular political agenda. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to be able to understand the difference.

So people who bomb abortion clinics belong in such a discussion, and people who fly planes into buildings because they're pissed off with the IRS belong in such a discussion, but someone who kills people at a university because they're angry about not getting tenure, or someone who falsely accuses people of rape, and who also endorse a particular political figure or party do not belong in such a discussion. As I said, I'm sure you are intelligent enough to be able to understand the difference between these two things.

---

19 Feb 10 - 02:23 PM (#2844363)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

Wow! It looks like we have an epidemic of murderers supporting Obama:

Foxy Knoxy backs Barack Obama... but says she's sorry to miss the elections as she's denied house arrest

By Nick Pisa
Last updated at 9:48 PM on 30th October 2008

Murder suspect Amanda Knox has revealed she is backing Barack Obama in next week's presidential election.

Knox, 21, who styled herself Foxy Knoxy, revealed her political allegiances after being visited by Italian MP Enrico Gasbarra.

She told him: 'I wanted to go home so that I could vote for Obama. I think I hoped too much. I really thought I would be getting out of here.'

Knox has been denied house arrest as she awaits trial over the murder of British student Meredith Kercher...

{shortened by me to prevent nausia among readers}

---

19 Feb 10 - 02:38 PM (#2844383)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: CarolC

Oops. I guess I was wrong. Not intelligent enough to see the difference, after all.

---

19 Feb 10 - 02:51 PM (#2844398)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

As long as the absolutely asinine title of this thread, and its basic assumptions, are allowed to stand, "anything goes" as far as posting since nobody can match such stupidity.

---

19 Feb 10 - 02:52 PM (#2844399)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: CarolC

I guess I can't argue with that.

---

19 Feb 10 - 03:29 PM (#2844434)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Only asking if you can condemn an entire group by the actions of one person or even a few people from that group.


You can assert any dumb-ass idea you want, including condemning the innocent, but if you mean "rationally" then the answer is no.


A

---

19 Feb 10 - 04:56 PM (#2844494)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Only asking if you can condemn an entire group by the actions of one person or even a few people from that group.

Yes. IF that one person, or those few people, are acting on the stated beliefs and principles of that group.

Don Firth

---

19 Feb 10 - 05:41 PM (#2844533)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

As long as the absolutely asinine title of this thread, and its basic assumptions, are allowed to stand, "anything goes" as far as posting since nobody can match such stupidity.

You're givin' it a pretty good run, ain'tcha, sweetums? Also the way you weave your words in with your original stories (if any) to make it entirely indisernible (aside from your nasty tone) which is which -- you're not going to convince anybody that way.

Leading to the conclusion: (1) either you know you're not going to convince anybody and you're doing it to be a gadfly, hence you're a jerk, or (2) you think it really will convince somebody, hence you're a moron.

Which is it then?

O..O
=o=

---

19 Feb 10 - 05:49 PM (#2844536)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Ya'll are missin' the point here...

Ther point is that our governement has two standards... One for righties that says it's pkay to carry a weapon to a ralley where the president is to speak... The other which says it's not okay for liberals to have guns... That lesson was painfully delivered in the 60s and liberals got it... If you have a gun then the governement is gonna get you... That, my friends, is dual standards...

The second point is that there are more and more incidents of folks suggesting on the right suggesting violence... We on the left saw how that iy worked for them in the 60's.... It virtually *killed* the movement...

Lastly, regarless of whether one is a rightie of leftie radical the message that the Tea Partiers are sending is that violence is just peachy as far as they are concerned and without the governement sayin' they are wrong then the message is doubly sent...

B~

---

19 Feb 10 - 05:53 PM (#2844539)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

The only people who don't want liberals to have guns is other liberals.

---

19 Feb 10 - 07:14 PM (#2844608)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Like the other liberals who were in charge of security at the convention in Minneapolis? Feh.

O..O
=o=

---

19 Feb 10 - 08:54 PM (#2844669)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I donno about that, Rigs... One thing that the right has going for it is that everyone knows (or assumes) that they pack a lotta heat... The governement knows it... The cops know it and liberals know it...

Now, if all of a sudden liberals started a liberal NRA and armed themselves as well as the righties then I don't think the "redneck superiority complex" (RSC) would hold up too long... I mean, here in Virginia we have a whole lotta punks who couldn't win a fist fight against their little sisters but when they strap on that sidearm they become Rambo... And they talk big and they get this aire about them that whatever they say, regardless of how moronic, is correct...

Guns are like the opiate of the stupid...

That's why I think that if these Rambo-wantabees knew that folks on the other side of the debate were also armed then maybe they would think twice about shootin' off their mouths...

See, folks... Ol' hippie has been watchin' too many Tea Bagger stories on the news and ready to invest in an AK... LOL... But really, that is the point... The meassage has been sent that violence is peachy dandy so the logical thinkin' is that the left better get armed.... And fast!!!

I mean, is that the message, or not??? Sure seems like it to me... So here we are with this Talibanish segment of the population, armed to the teeth, getting away with it while the governemnt turns its head and running their motuhs about stuff that is based on lies and more lies... Sounds like the Taliban to me, Ralph...

B~

---

19 Feb 10 - 09:24 PM (#2844689)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Here's the truth: SOME Obama supporters are nuts. SOME Tea-Baggers are nuts. SOME liberals are nuts and SOME conservatives are nuts. Of all these nuts, SOME are slightly nuts, some a bit more, some more nuts than that, and SOME are seriously nuts.

And of all the nuts in all these categories, SOME of those nuts are a public danger. And, possibly, SOME of those are "terrorist" oriented in the sense of using violence for political purposes.

You guys gotta learn discrimination between similarities and the recognition of differences."

At last a rational statement from Amos. Good on you Amos.

Each person, each statement, each action must be judged on it's face, not by which "group" that person belongs to, EG us or them, Bloods or Crips, Dems or Repubs or skin color.

If somebody flies a plane into a building it is not automatically terrorism and a teababger is not automatically a terrorist.

Remember when that kid that flew a plane into a building in Florida? They said it was his meds.

---

19 Feb 10 - 09:42 PM (#2844696)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: katlaughing

Science Friday on NPR had some interesting discussions today, esp. the first one which was on Communicating Science in a Post-Newspaper Era. You may listen to it, or read the transcript (scroll way down)HERE

One of them was talking about the types of emails he gets now there is the Internet with so much misinformation, etc.:

Prof. SCHNEIDER: If my hundreds of emails..... are any indication, the typical line - and you would not believe the vulgarity and even violence threats. It's amazing. Only in the last two years since the Tea Party-types decided that their, you know, their imagined version of the destruction of America allows them this kind of radical, you know, ugly behavior.

What they generally say is, you communistic dupe of the United Nations who wants world government to take away our religious and our economic freedoms. They live in a mythology. They get it reinforced by people who take out-of-context quotes to convince them, and then they sit there and it's very - I'm sorry to say this - red-state, blue-state specific.

And, you know, if you want to take the world and oversimplify it, you have people in two kind of value systems - faith, trust. Don't give me evidence if it's going to knock me off the pin. And doubt test, which is our value system. You change any opinion when you have new evidence.

Some of it reminded me of this thread.

---

20 Feb 10 - 07:48 AM (#2844895)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, looks as if I'm out front of MSNBC 'cause Rachele Maddow devoted much of her show last night to my point that the right is gettin' way with pushing violence...

So back to the Tea Baggers as a terrorist organization.... If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

B~

---

20 Feb 10 - 02:14 PM (#2845224)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

Ya might want to ask Rachel if she knows anything about what in the US Consitution.

---

20 Feb 10 - 04:09 PM (#2845329)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Are demonstrators holding a kill sign a terrorist organization?

---

20 Feb 10 - 04:22 PM (#2845343)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Sawz:

The Constitution of the United States has no section called a Preamble; and despite the assertions of Minority Leader John Baynor, it says nothing about "We hold these truths to be self-evident.". This assertion, as Rachel correctly points out, comes from the Declaration of Independence, which does not have a Preamble either.

The COnstitution does have an introducto ry sentence but in the original document it was not called a Preamble. And it certainly does not contain the notion attributed to it by the minority Speaker.

Furthermore, Ms. Maddow's command of the CONTENTS--the important part, remember?-- seems far more developed than John Baynor's.

A

---

20 Feb 10 - 04:51 PM (#2845356)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Isn't the "We the People" part generally called the Preamble in everyday parlance?

O..O
=o=

---

20 Feb 10 - 05:27 PM (#2845383)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

http://www.whitehouse.gov/our-government/the-constitution

Preamble to the Constitution


http://www.senate.gov/civics/constitution_item/constitution.htm

The Preamble explains the purposes of the Constitution, and defines the powers of the new government as originating from the people of the United States.

Preamble:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

http://www.america.gov/publications/books/the-constitution.html

This illustrated publication includes the complete text of the U.S. Constitution preamble, seven articles, and 27 amendments

---

20 Feb 10 - 05:31 PM (#2845388)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: CarolC

Where in the original document does it say "preamble"?

---

20 Feb 10 - 05:34 PM (#2845392)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

It does not say "Preamble" in the opriginal document. It has been labeled a preamble later but it is not part of the original. In any case the stupidity of the Minority Leader was in reciting a line from the Declaration and asserting it was from the Consittution.

Rachel also misspoke, as neither of them (in the original) have a Preamble named as such. But at least she was referring to the right document.

A

---

20 Feb 10 - 05:39 PM (#2845398)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Does it have to say "Preamble" in the document to be called "Preamble"? That's a pretty silly argument. If somebody says "Like it says in the Preamble to the Constitution...." you haven't won any talking points at all if you point out that the word "Preamble" isn't in the actual document. That's just what it's called.

O..O
=o=

---

20 Feb 10 - 06:27 PM (#2845428)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Please inform Everyone's favorite red-head, the Chile Rojo of the New York Times:

"One singular leader who wrote elegantly about his ideals, was swept into the presidency and then collided with harsh reality had some advice for another.

In an interview with Alison Smale in The Times last week, Vaclav Havel sipped Champagne in the middle of the afternoon and pricked Barack Obama's conscience.

Havel, the 73-year-old former Czech president, who didn't win a Nobel Peace Prize despite leading the Czechs and the Slovaks from communism to democracy, turned the tables and asked Smale a question about Obama, the latest winner of the peace prize.

Was it true that the president had refused to meet the Dalai Lama on his visit to Washington?

He was told that Obama had indeed tried to curry favor with China by declining to see the Dalai Lama until after the president's visit to China next month.

Dissing the Dalai was part of a broader new Obama policy called "strategic reassurance" â€" softening criticism of China's human rights record and financial policies to calm its fears that America is trying to contain it. (Not to mention our own fears that the Chinese will quit bankrolling our debt.)

The tyro American president got the Nobel for the mere anticipation that he would provide bold moral leadership for the world at the very moment he was caving to Chinese dictators. Awkward.

Havel reached out to touch a glass dish given to him by Obama, inscribed with the preamble to the U.S. Constitution. "It is only a minor compromise," he said. "But exactly with these minor compromises start the big and dangerous ones, the real problems."

Our president would be well advised to listen. Havel is looking at this not only as a moral champion but as a playwright. Obama (who, as Robert Draper wrote, has read and reread Shakespeare's tragedies) does not want his fatal flaw to be that he compromises so much that his ideals get blurred out of recognition."

---

20 Feb 10 - 06:37 PM (#2845433)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: CarolC

I don't know, mousthief, but does it have to be called a preamble, as opposed to, for instance, a preface or a prologue?

But I agree, there certainly are a lot of people who like to wave around the Constitution who don't even know what's in it. Like John Boehner, for instance. Maddow at least knows what's in it. She appears to just be quibbling with what to call the opening paragraph.

---

20 Feb 10 - 06:40 PM (#2845435)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

I don't know what it HAS to be called; "Preamble" is what it IS called.

In like manner you will never find the words "Bill of Rights" in the Constitution. It would be pretty foolish, however, to on that basis argue there is no Bill of Rights in the US Constitution. Could be called the Bunch of Rights. Could be called the String of Rights. But it's called the Bill of Rights, and whenever people talk about it, that's what they call it.

O..O
=o=

---

20 Feb 10 - 06:41 PM (#2845437)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Sawz:

Obama just HAD a meeting with the Dalai Lama. What are you on about? Your tale has no date on it.


A

---

20 Feb 10 - 07:52 PM (#2845469)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Silly tangent here... What Racael Maddow does have correct is the pass that the Tea Baggers are getting with their ever increasing violent message...

This is beyond 1st ammendment rights as no one has the right to yell "Fire" in a theater unless there is a fire... What is happening here is that the right is layin the groundwork for another round of assasinations, this time perhaps being the politicans they don't like to go along with the current assasinations of doctors they don't like...

It's time that someone step in and say, "Hey, folks, step back... This is gettin' out of hand here..."

Of course, the righties would love nothin' more than to see Obama in a pool of blood... There are righties that talks about it fanticize about it... The problem here is well beyond what it means to our nation in terms of it being a country based upon law but a much more danger ous situation that I have described before where the left stoops to the lowliness of the right and decides, "Screw it, Ralph, I've had enough and I'm going to Richmond and buy me an AK-47"...

Then what we could be looking at is as close to a "failed state" as anyone her could imagine... No one in 1850 could have predicted what would occur 10 years later but the early warnings were there... The early warning are here again and unless the right wants to destroy our country, which BTW they say is "theirs", then someone on the right needs to call for a cooling off period 'cause these Tea Baggers are not far behind their brothers in Afganistan, the Taliban...

B~

---

20 Feb 10 - 08:21 PM (#2845488)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Just a passing observation:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Ahem. . . .

Don Firth

---

20 Feb 10 - 09:10 PM (#2845512)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, yeah, that is the preamble to the Constitution... It is easily Googled... And it outlines the general principles that the rest of the document try to codify... Alot of folks don't really pay much attention to it because it doesn't fir their particular biasesa dn prejudices but I think it states very clearly the intent of the Founding Fathers...

"insure domestic tranquility" is the part that disturbs me about the right wing in this country... And I think if Tom Jefferson has seen the guy with the gun strapped to his leg at a rally where the president was to speak that ol' Tom would say, "Hey, this wasn't what we had in mind"... Yeah, Thomas Jefferson did say that the document would have to be revsisted from time to time... I'm not even sure that he thought it would survive even for a 100 years but I am sure that he would not be a Tea Partier these days but quite the opposite...

"to form a more perfect ****union*****"... Not just words...

B~

---

20 Feb 10 - 09:47 PM (#2845523)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Dear Amos: Go find a college professor and maybe he can help you out.

Nah, I ain't that arrogant. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/opinion/18dowd.html


You are right about the Boner quoting from the DI and saying it was from the Constitution.

But did you see the arms waving when Maddow said "Constitution doesn't have a preamble"

You are such a fan of arm wavers.

---

21 Feb 10 - 01:53 PM (#2845934)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Are Obama supporters a terrorist organization

---

21 Feb 10 - 03:33 PM (#2846015)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

Let me ask you this....

Is the Roller Derby League a terrorist organization???

I think so. These girls are needlessly violent and they're dedicated to punching people's heads in. I call that terrorism. ;-) When you hear the names of the teams, you KNOW it's terrorism.

How about "The Queens of Pain" and the "Manhattan Mayhem", for instance?

---

21 Feb 10 - 03:38 PM (#2846018)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Disingenuous, Sawzaw.

Obama--or his large number of supporters (remember, he did get elected)--can hardly be held responsible for the occasional maniacal bigot who also favored him over another candidate. Are you suggesting that everyone who voted for Obama is a terrorist?   That covers quite a bit of territory.

Don Firth

---

21 Feb 10 - 04:25 PM (#2846048)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

It's almost as irresponsible as implying that everyone who voted for Chongo Chimp is a terrorist...

But what about those rolly derby girls? Horrifying, isn't it?

---

21 Feb 10 - 04:31 PM (#2846055)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Would be, Little Hawk, if they weren't so damned sexy.

O..O
=o=

---

21 Feb 10 - 05:37 PM (#2846110)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Sawz:

It strikes me as nearly insane to try and make a point from last October as though it were true in the present, especially since it was just refuted last week.

There's a scope of relevance in these things, depending on the magnitude of the subject--but this point of Dowd's was overcome by events LONG since. Are you trying to pretend it did not happen because someone said last Ovtober it hadn't happened? Or what?


A

---

22 Feb 10 - 07:12 AM (#2846494)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Disingenuous, Don Firth.


The point is that Bobert has now started two threads that state those he opposes are racsit or terrorist because a few people that agree with them are.



The Tea Party movement, or Palin --or their large number of supporters --can hardly be held responsible for the occasional maniacal bigot who also favored them over Obama's policies. Are you suggesting that everyone who voted for against is a terrorist?   That covers quite a bit of territory. And it is what Bobert is trying to do.

We keep giving equivilent examples that yyou don't like- MAYBE you should reign in BOBERT who thinks this typoe of thread is appropriate, instead of complaing abotu those who are in agreement with you on principles, if not policies.

---

22 Feb 10 - 07:39 AM (#2846512)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, bb, that is not waht I have said, at all... That is just more BB-BS... This isn't about me... I know you love makin' it about me seeing as your a charter member of the Bobert Fan Club... Buty reality is that, like I have said, the right wing, just as the past are not above or below using violence or the threat of violence to achieve their goals... That is what terrorism is all about...

But you faithful Bobert fans don't want to address that reality 'cuase it's always more fun to just attack me??? Go figure... Wonder why ya'll won't stand up and defend or denouce the vilence that threats that are very much a ceneterpiece of the Tea Baggers??? Or why there aren't people of color in the many picures you see of the rallies???

Those are the real issues... Not your childish games which all you Bobert Fan Clubbers are so fond...

B~

---

23 Feb 10 - 01:17 AM (#2847312)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I speak for myself, BB.

Bobert is perfectly capable of speaking for himself.

And I was talking to Sawzaw.

Don Firth

---

23 Feb 10 - 11:55 AM (#2847746)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

The screaming banshees at the summer political rallies were hardly "occasional." The people with posters about watering democracy with blood were hardly "occasional". The crowds at Palin's rallies who were whipped up to "kill him!" frenzy were hardly occasional. This is the face of the Tea Party. It's not some maniacal tiny subset. It's the Tea Party at its LCD best.

O..O
=o=

---

23 Feb 10 - 01:12 PM (#2847824)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Stringsinger

It's really hard to generalize here. There are some who are brandishing weapons and others who are scared, confused and disgruntled. There is one common denominator here though.
Racism. There are very few black people at these rallies.

Terrorism is another buzz-word like communism to make people afraid and angry. It is usually misapplied for political purposes.

The so-called Tea Party bears little resemblance to the participants of the original Tea Party in Massachusetts. This trumped-up Dick Armey Tea Party is not unified and does not contain any useful vision for the economic woes we face today. It's a reactive party, not a pro-active one.

---

23 Feb 10 - 01:56 PM (#2847865)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

What we need is a Realist Party who carry signs that say "No Medicare Without Taxation."

O..O
=o=

---

23 Feb 10 - 03:38 PM (#2847955)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"It strikes me as nearly insane to try and make a point from last October as though it were true in the present, especially since it was just refuted last week.

There's a scope of relevance in these things, depending on the magnitude of the subject--but this point of Dowd's was overcome by events LONG since. Are you trying to pretend it did not happen because someone said last Ovtober it hadn't happened? Or what?"

If I knew specifically what you were talking about I might be able to answer your question Amos.

If it is about the Dowd article, it was in regards to her stating the Constitution has a preamble and it was in bold so you could see it.


Don: It was a question like Bobert's question.

---

23 Feb 10 - 03:42 PM (#2847962)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

OK, Sawz. The Constitution as it is published currently has a Preamble. No problem.

Rachel was wrong about the Preamble part. She must have been thinking of the original version which does not label its parts that way.

Oh, and the Senator's quote was not where he said it was, but from the Declaration of Independence. God knows what he was thinking of...

Any questions?


Sheeeeshe.

---

23 Feb 10 - 03:53 PM (#2847972)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Doesn't much matter, Amos...

The Preamble is an importrant statement... It lays down a vision for our nation... If one takes that vision and applies it to the recent Suprme Court decisions or actions of the Repubican Party then there is something terribly amiss...

B~

---

23 Feb 10 - 09:39 PM (#2848320)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

I agree Amos. Keep up the good attitude.

---

23 Feb 10 - 09:41 PM (#2848324)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

The professor, Amy Bishop that murdered three people with a gun and shot three others was allegedly an avid Obama supporter and a left winger.

Can we conclude that left wing Obama supporters are a terrorist organization?

"A family source said Bishop, a mother of four children - the youngest a third-grade boy - was a far-left political extremist who was "obsessed" with President Obama to the point of being off-putting."

---

23 Feb 10 - 10:25 PM (#2848338)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

If Amy Bishop had murdered John Roberts of John Bonehead then we'd have something to talk about here... She didn't... She, like other wackos, murdered co-workers...

Actually, given what the left learned in the 60s about just how terrorism can turn a nation around for decades, it would be interesting to revisit the country in 20 years if Obama supporters were to become a terrorist organization... But that is just hypothetical...

Reality is that the left in this country ain't about the kinds of things the the right is willing to rationalize to either stop the left and/or to hold power...

The Tea Party movement is flush with folks ready and willing to kill folks on the left... Their signs and rhetoric are filled with threats of violence...

This is a reality that has nothin' to do with a wacked out college professor who went "postal" at the work place... Those folks, sad to say, seem to follow a certain pattern of killing people they worked with... No politics involved...

BTW, it would be very interesting to poll all the folks who have been convicted of murder and voted in the last election and see just what party is producing the most murderers??? I'd put my money on the Repubs as the murder party but, hey, there ain't no studies that I know of???

B~

---

24 Feb 10 - 06:59 AM (#2848560)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Bobert,


An overly large number of "all the folks who have been convicted of murder and voted in the last election " were Black.

1. murderers by race for 2004 ( example year- feel free to look for others that mat



The vast majority of those who are Black and who voted in the last election voted for Obama.

2. http://www.chacha.com/question/what-percent-of-black-voters-voted-for-obama-in-the-most-recent-american-presidential-election





So, unless you claim that NO non-blacks voted for Obama, the only conclusion that can be determined is that MORE Obama supporters are murderers than McCann supporters.

---

24 Feb 10 - 07:21 AM (#2848568)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, bruce, that much is prolly true... I'd like to see the data on the white folks... They are the ones who traditionally have used murder for political gain in this country...

B~

---

24 Feb 10 - 08:25 AM (#2848609)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Then, of course, there's Winnie Mandela, but then, that was a different country.

---

24 Feb 10 - 09:52 AM (#2848694)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Why does Bobert base his conclusions, which later turn into Bobert "facts", on ifs?

"If Amy Bishop had murdered John Roberts"

If Bobert would apply the same logic on Amy Bishop that he applys to Stack, would he come to the same conclusion?

What if "If Stack had murdered John Roberts"?

People fail to look at things both ways to test their hypothesis.

If A + B = C then C -B = A

However this requires logical thinking which is difficult for some people.

Therefore they are continually unhappy and complain constantly because things don't turn out the way they think it should have.

---

24 Feb 10 - 12:05 PM (#2848819)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Glad to see you defending logic, Sawz. Keep up the good attitude!

But just as a comment, the formulation that if A+B=C the C-B=A is only true of closed systems and mechanics. In real life, where things are constantly in flux and beliefs pro and con have a large bearing, the use of abstract formulations can quickly go awry.


A

---

24 Feb 10 - 12:10 PM (#2848829)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Are Little Hawk's Dogs a Terrorist Organization????

Cosmos Magazine reports: "ARIS: Small domesticated dogs probably originated in the Middle East more than 12,000 years ago as the descendants of grey wolves (Canis lupis).

Researchers Melissa Gray and Robert Wayne led a team from the University of California in Los Angeles that searched for variations of a gene called IGF1 which is a characteristic of small dogs.

"(The variant) probably arose early in their history," said Gray, whose paper is published online by BMC Biology, an open-access journal.

Small domestic dogs at least 12,000 years old

"Our results show that the version of the IGF1 gene found in small dogs is closely related to that found in Middle Eastern wolves and is consistent with an ancient origin."

The work concurs with archaeological work in the Middle East that has unearthed the remains of small domestic dogs dating to 12,000 years ago.

Digs in Europe have uncovered older remains, to as much as 31,000 years ago, but these are of larger dogs.

Iraq's Fertile Crescent

Canine selection may have been carried out by villagers in the Fertile Crescent of modern-day Iraq and other cradles of agriculture.

"Small size could have been more desirable in more densely packed agrarian societies where dogs may have lived partly indoors or in confined outdoor spaces," says the study.

Most of the Western barnyard animals and the cat were domesticated between 12,000 and 8,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent.

Dogs were first domestic animal

However, dogs have been considered as an important exception, as they were thought to have been domesticated 1,000 to 5,000 years earlier, while humans were still living and hunter-gatherers.

"Domestication is a key feature of the Neolithic Revolution, a suite of cultural innovations and consequences comprising sedentism, and agricultural economy, and complex social arrangements conducive to urban living," write David MacDonald and Carlos Driscoll, in an associated opinion article published in the Journal of Biology.

"Gray et al provide evidence that early Middle Eastern dogs segregate for a character, non-adaptive in the wild, that is probably the result of long-term association with humans and must have occurred over many human generations. "

---

If this is the case, the Mounties better look in on Little Hawk's dogs. They may be secret Iraqi moles.


A

---

24 Feb 10 - 04:17 PM (#2849134)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

It's really a problem if they went underground 12,000 years ago. They've probably got a lot of connections by now.

---

24 Feb 10 - 05:52 PM (#2849227)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Not to mention tunnels. You know how moles are...

---

24 Feb 10 - 06:53 PM (#2849298)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

My wiener dogs DO have plans to take over the world...but they aren't doing it for Iraq. They're doing it strictly for themselves. They don't give a tiddly about Iraq, I can assure you.

---

24 Feb 10 - 07:14 PM (#2849322)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Right. That's what ALL terrorists say at first.

Just wait until they get the signal to activate.



A

---

24 Feb 10 - 07:49 PM (#2849349)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

And badger dogs would be real good at going underground.

---

24 Feb 10 - 07:52 PM (#2849351)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Come on, ya'll... When we start with these kinds of humorous tangents it's like poo-pooin' the crux of the thread which is the hypothesis that the Tea Party should be viewed as a terrorist organization because they are out there preachin' violence... To bring up this or that as being a terrorist organization just plays into Sawz simplistic attempt to take a seroius situation and turn it into a joke.... It won't be a joke when one of these nutballs starts shooting at what he percieves as socialists....

As fir his philosphy lesson??? It more like math and less like real world thinking... Math won't solve squat if and when the right thiknks ut's justified in killing progressives.... We have seen that in our life times and it ain't anything we need to see again...

Please... No more jokes unless ya'll is on the right... That's all they have...

B~

---

24 Feb 10 - 08:22 PM (#2849383)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John on the Sunset Coast

It seems that every 'meet and greet' I've attended has been called a Tea Party, so I guess it's become sort of a generic term now. So far no 'how can we obstruct' types of discussions; no Obama is an illegal president; not even Obama is a Socialist. The candidates have spoken about how they feel Conservatives have a valid message based on Constitutional interpretation and action, and how it differs from Liberal interpretation. About the most terrorist they've gotten is to say they plan to beat the bejesus out of Liberals in the coming election at the ballot box.

---

24 Feb 10 - 09:41 PM (#2849436)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Okay, John, come to a liberals defense when the next Repub is elected presdient and a liberal shows up at one on his rallies with a gun straped to his leg and a sign talkin' about killin'... Yeah, be sure to mark that down on your list of things you'll do when the tables are turned...

B~

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24 Feb 10 - 10:06 PM (#2849446)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John on the Sunset Coast

Whaaat?

---

25 Feb 10 - 12:48 AM (#2849526)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"abstract formulations" are in you head Amos. They are your creation, devoid of the facts that constitute reality.

Bobert: That Stack Guy was a guitar picker, He loved country Music and he hated Bush like you

Therefore whatever he did can be blamed on you. You are telling people to buy guns and talking about shooting people. A revolt. Terrorist talk.

Is this a Bobert quote or a stack Quote?

"The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government."

"Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes"

"I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different."

"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each
according to his need."

Are you sure you didn't help him write that left wing drivel Bobert?

Did he mention Obama One time?

---

25 Feb 10 - 08:35 AM (#2849736)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Stack is a straw man, Sawz...

Apparently, you haven't gotten the jist of this thread yet which tells me that either you are missing some wiring or you are in denial... Really doesn't much matter which one to me... It's plain as the nose on one's face that you ain't gonna get it...

But one more time... We are talkin' about a larger problem/issue/situation than one man here...

Yeah, John, that's right!!! What if it had been a group of very rowdy, heavily armed Black Panther lookin' dudes accross the street from a Bush rally??? And they we carrying signs talking about violence... What's not to get here??? You gonna defend these guys??? You gonna say they are just exercising their 1st and 2nd ammmendment rights??? Come on, man... Yer smarter than this... Well, let me put it this way, I thought you were smarter than this...

Bottom line, when we not only allow people to act in a mob rule manner but give them face time all over the media it sends out a very strong message... That message is one that I hear 14 and 15 year kids in the local general store mouthing... How many times have you heard a white man say that he'd like someone to "kill that nigger" in reference to Obama??? I've heard it many times over the last couple of years... Ya' see, we have created a culture where that is acceptable... One where these folks aren't not being told that that is not right... I don't know if you havbe ever lived in the South but I've lived in it most of my life and I've stumbled on Klan rallies, I've seen burned crosses, I've seen a sign in Varina, Va, with the crosshairs of a rifle scope painted on a 20 foot sign with the words "Niggers and Communists Beware" and "Minutemen" painted right under that... These are all things I witnessed prior to the assasination of Bobby Kennedy and Martine Luther King...

I mean, it may seem innocent enough to you, John, for an angry white man to camp out accross the street froman Obama rally with a gin strapped to his leg and a sign that implies that it is his patriotic duty to spill someoen elses blood in the name of his politics but...

...it ain't okay in my book... Seen that movie and the ending doesn't look much like America...

B~

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25 Feb 10 - 10:10 AM (#2849791)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Sawz:

Lissen to this guy. Even with his pot and his shine and his artificial country grammar, he has more understanding of the flow of things in one earlobe than some of us--including you--have in our whole haids. Listen well, grasshopper.


A

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25 Feb 10 - 11:04 AM (#2849854)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Shucks, Amos... You gonna blow my cover here, son... lol...

But, yeah, I was kinda blessed with an ability to cut thru the crap and anaylize stuff purdy good... I recall back in college VCU hired T. Edward Temple, who was the governor's Commissioner of the Administration, to facilitate a seminar in "Contemorary Urban Problems" and the class size was limited to 10 students, 3 from the left, 3 from the right and 4 in-tweeners... Over 1000 students applied with their differing perspectives and knowledge bases and I was chosen as one of the 3 leftists... One of the so called in-tweeners was the college presdient, Warren Brandt, who IMO was a rightie so the real make-up of the class was 3 lefties, 3 moderates and 4 righties... At the end of the year the 3 of us on the left had pried all 3 moderates over to the left and were workin' hard on one of the righties, Andy Canada... 'Bout a month after the school year I get a call from Andy, who BTW was the head of the Pharmacy Department at Medical College of Virginia and he tells me that, ahhhhhhhh, not only had he come 'round but that he had hooked up with one of his (liberal) assistant profs!!! Go figure???

Not that that means anything in the big scheme of things, mind you... But I am blessed with an ability to see thru bullshit when it is habded to me as the Holy Grail...

But thanks fir the compliment, non the less, 'ol son...

B~

---

25 Feb 10 - 03:29 PM (#2850119)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert: You are using Stack as a straw man as something you use to hang something on teabaggers.

He is like you Bobert. Not the teabaggers. Do you see any signs anywhere or any AK47s strapped on his leg?

Lead affects the brain first.

Let this poor deranged fellow Bush hater rest in peace.

---

25 Feb 10 - 03:35 PM (#2850128)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Bobert used Stacks deranged hatefulness culminating in violent destruction as a SYMBOL, Sawz.

A symbol represents something, and the trick is to correctly grasp what it is that it represents. If you get the symbolism wrong, the dialogue will go haywire at that point.

In this case you got the symbolism wrong. Bobert made a valid point about certain siumilarities between the blind hatred of Stack (in his penultimate days) and the kind of vociferous hatred that characterizes some Teabag Party adherents, although not all of them.

His POINT was not about Stack but about a cultural environment that inculcates and nurtures hatred and destruction in the guise of false colors such as patriotism and resistance to tyranny, using those as excuses when there are none.

Capiche?

Bitte seien Sie nicht ein Ananasgehirn beim Vortäuschen, ein intelligenter Mensch zu sein.

---

25 Feb 10 - 04:12 PM (#2850152)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

The same symbolisim applies to tax dodging Moonshiners, guitar pickers who hate GWB, dope dealers and professors who rabidly support Obama.

Therefore those groups are dangerous and terrorists.

If you can possibly make that abstract formulation.

---

25 Feb 10 - 04:53 PM (#2850193)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John on the Sunset Coast

Well Bobert, I would say one of us is wrong. You thought I wouldn't support or make exuses for gun toters on the right. I wouldn't have thought you would tar a whole movement by a few fringies. As I don't condone violence, or threats of violence against those I disagree with, it's not you who is wrong.

---

25 Feb 10 - 04:56 PM (#2850200)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John on the Sunset Coast

Write in haste, write wrong. Last clause should read "it is I who was wrong."

---

25 Feb 10 - 05:03 PM (#2850207)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Well, I dunno anyone who rabidly supports Obama, myself. It is kinda inconsistent, him attracting the more reflective and thoughtful sort.

I hasten to agree with John that the whole Tea Party movement should not be tarred. Bobert points out correctly that in the media at least, multiple instances of hate speech and incitement to violence have been observed at some Tea Parties. That was his point, not some sweeping all-embracive generalization, if I may venture to interpret his point.


A

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25 Feb 10 - 05:10 PM (#2850216)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I wish it was just one loose screw in the parts cleaner, John.... Have you seen the signs that these folks carry at their rallies??? Google up "Tea Bagger Photos" and get yerself a look at what these folks are thinkin' and sayin' on their signs... I think yer about to get a real education on these folks...

BTW, I wasn't going to bring this up but what the heck... Also check out the number of these Tea Baggers who are overweight...

(Well, that's their right, Boberdz...)

Yeah, it is... I hope they all have their own helth insurance when this condition starts costing US real money 'cause if ther's one thing that bugs me is having my health insurance go up because I'm helpin' to cover a bunch of rednecks who hate the government who think it is their right to eat whatever they want, whenever they want... Sure, it's their right and it's my right to call them on it when ***they say*** they want less government but will be the ones screamin' the loudest when they they get sick for, ahhhhhh, what??? More government!!! Well, at least where they are concerned...

Purdy strange times we live in...

B~

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25 Feb 10 - 05:16 PM (#2850223)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

"That was his point, not some sweeping all-embracive generalization, if I may venture to interpret his point."

NOT according to the thread title. I thought you believed that people should take ownership and responsibility for what they do and post?

And what is it with the name calling and personnal insults? Is your arguement THAT weak that you resort to attacking those who present opposing views, rather than the views themselves? Do you hear us calling you one of the fruits and nuts that live in la-la land ( California)? Obviously we have more evidence of that than you have of the composition of anyone's brain.

---

27 Feb 10 - 12:38 AM (#2851361)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Amos, You are getting there.

Are Killer whales a terrorist organization?

---

27 Feb 10 - 02:14 AM (#2851380)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Please don't be stupid, Sawz.

Bruce the thread title has two question marks at the end of it.



A

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27 Feb 10 - 07:13 AM (#2851459)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

"Are Killer whales a terrorist organization?"

         No, but La Raza is a lot like a school of sharks.

---

27 Feb 10 - 07:35 AM (#2851470)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Normal, Sawz...

Make jokes about anything that make you uncomfy...

But nevermind that, folks... I am very surprised that no one came to the defense of the over-eating Tea Baggers???

(I know, Sawz.... Are fat people a terrorist organization...)

B~

---

27 Feb 10 - 01:05 PM (#2851648)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Those are supposed to be jokes? Wow I'm glad you told me. I can stop trying to make them make sense.

O..O
=o=

---

28 Feb 10 - 11:19 AM (#2852253)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Frank Rich of the NYT writes:

What made that kamikaze mission eventful was less the deranged act itself than the curious reaction of politicians on the right who gave it a pass Ñ or, worse, flirted with condoning it. Stack was a lone madman, and it would be both glib and inaccurate to call him a card-carrying Tea Partier or a ÒTea Party terrorist.Ó But he did leave behind a manifesto whose frothing anti-government, anti-tax rage overlaps with some of those marching under the Tea Party banner. That rant inspired like-minded Americans to create instant Facebook shrines to his martyrdom. Soon enough, some cowed politicians, including the newly minted Tea Party hero Scott Brown, were publicly empathizing with StackÕs credo Ñ rather than risk crossing the most unforgiving brigade in their base.

Representative Steve King, Republican of Iowa, even rationalized StackÕs crime. ÒItÕs sad the incident in Texas happened,Ó he said, Òbut by the same token, itÕs an agency that is unnecessary. And when the day comes when that is over and we abolish the I.R.S., itÕs going to be a happy day for America.Ó No one in KingÕs caucus condemned these remarks. Then again, what King euphemized as Òthe incidentÓ took out just 1 of the 200 workers in the Austin building: Vernon Hunter, a 68-year-old Vietnam veteran nearing his I.R.S. retirement. Had Stack the devastating weaponry and timing to match the death toll of 168 inflicted by Timothy McVeigh on a federal building in Oklahoma in 1995, maybe a few of the congressmanÕs peers would have cried foul.

It is not glib or inaccurate to invoke Oklahoma City in this context, because the acrid stench of 1995 is back in the air. Two days before StackÕs suicide mission, The Times published David BarstowÕs chilling, months-long investigation of the Tea Party movement. Anyone who was cognizant during the McVeigh firestorm would recognize the old warning signs re-emerging from the mists of history. The Patriot movement. ÒThe New World Order,Ó with its shadowy conspiracies hatched by the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission. Sandpoint, Idaho. White supremacists. Militias.

Barstow confirmed what the Southern Poverty Law Center had found in its report last year: the unhinged and sometimes armed anti-government right that was thought to have vaporized after its Oklahoma apotheosis is making a comeback. And now it is finding common cause with some elements of the diverse, far-flung and still inchoate Tea Party movement. All it takes is a few self-styled ÒpatriotsÓ to sow havoc....

And here's the earlier story on the Tea Party which he called "chilling".

A

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28 Feb 10 - 05:52 PM (#2852521)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, Amos.... Amazing that all it took to bring back the right-winged "Patriot Movement" was the election of a black president...

This is what this is all about... Hey, these people never ever complained about governemnt spending while Bush was going on a spending spree unparalelled in history... But let a black man become president and it's time for the "revolution"... Might of fact, Obama has cut taxes for 95% of workers yet these same people are pissed off and most would tell you that Obama has raised their taxes... And Obama wants to take yer guns.... And Obama isn't a citizen... And, and, and...

...fucking bigots as far as I can see and now they want to kill people???

Yup, this country is way dumbed-down... Too many ignorant bigots can't get enough of the Big Lie... Reminds me of Germany in the late 30s... Lotta same stuff going down...

To all my progressive friends: like Rap has said, buy guns, lots of ammo and learn to shoot straight 'cause these rednecks mean to kill people who ain't like them...

B~

---

28 Feb 10 - 10:55 PM (#2852692)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

"Barstow confirmed what the Southern Poverty Law Center had found in its report last year:..."

          So one needs to derermine which is worse, the Tea Party movement or the Southern Poverty Law Center.

---

01 Mar 10 - 07:53 AM (#2852894)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

One ain't advocating violence, Rigs... Guess which one...

---

01 Mar 10 - 08:52 AM (#2852954)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

So one needs to derermine which is worse, the Tea Party movement or the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Oh, please. Don't be a jackass.

---

05 Mar 10 - 12:10 AM (#2856478)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Well, well, well...

It just had to happen... Seems that one Obama votin', cross dressin', Cheney hatin', civil rights lovin', Patriot Act protester had to carry out a WMD / bio-warfare terrorist attacks on the government and then committed suicide.

Anthrax Terrorist Ivins email July 2 2008: Dick Cheney scares me. The Patriot Act is so unconstitutional it's not even funny. The Patriot Act is so unconstitutional it's not even funny is dreadful. What happened to rights, freedoms and liberties? I'm voting for Obama!

Buccal swabs taken from Bruce Edwards Ivins

Are suicidal Obama voters / patriot act haters / Cheney haters / cross dressers a Terrorist Organization??

---

05 Mar 10 - 01:31 AM (#2856494)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Nutballs.


A

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05 Mar 10 - 05:42 AM (#2856604)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Amos,

I agree that Obama supporters are sometimes nutballs, but ** I ** see no reason to start a thread indicating that.

---

05 Mar 10 - 07:11 AM (#2856643)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The Tea Baggers ain't got the market captured in mental illness... Actually, suicide is mcuh more prevalent then we woould think because it doesn't make the nightly news like the murders do...

But if we are gointg to pass judegements on elected officials based on thre suicide rates of the folks who wvoted fir them then we are gonna be hard-pressed to find any that are worthy...

But, Part 2, this is just a straw man that has nothing to do with the the dangerously damaging speech and behavior that our country is allowing the Tea Baggers to get away with... Like I have said, if I had strapped a gun to my leg and carried a sign advocating violence to a Bush rally, I would have been arrested or shot, no questions asked...

B~

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05 Mar 10 - 10:14 AM (#2856755)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Are anti-war nut jobs a Terrorist Organization??

Gunman killed after shooting 2 Pentagon police

...I am determined to see that justice is served in the death of Colonel James Sabow, as a step toward establishing the truth of events such as the September 11 demolitions and institutions such as the coup regime of 1963 that maintains itself in power through the global drug trade, financial corruption, and murder, among other crimes. My work to develop information currency is an effort to create a framework for information management that uses financial markets to create the economic signals (prices) that will effect complex human actions in the real world based on specified information. My desire for justice led me to violate what I think is one of the most unjust laws, cannabis prohibition, by growing 16 cannabis plants on my balcony in Irvine, CA from March 2006 to June 2006. I've posted the Orange County, CA District Attorney's complaint for this offense at http://cannabis.wikia.com/wiki/JPatrickBedell_2006-06-06_cannabis_felony....

A stoner too? But Sawzaw, does that mean Stoners are a Terr... Naw. I am not going to make that smug assertion.

---

05 Mar 10 - 10:31 AM (#2856775)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Good on ya, Sawz, for your discrimination and self-control...


A

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05 Mar 10 - 11:26 AM (#2856834)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

a sign advocating violence

Now imagine yourself with a sign like that with Obama on it instead of Bush anywhere, at any rally, with or without a gun.

You would be arrested or shot with no questions asked.

But with the double standard, lefties can get away with carrying signs like that and whine, cry and suck snot about their freedom being taken away at the same time.

The Lefties ain't got the market captured in mental illness, not quite. But as you can see by the actions of Ivins, Bedel and Bishop, they are workin' on it.

---

05 Mar 10 - 05:32 PM (#2857084)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""Joseph Andrew Stack mocks the American health care system as a profit-driven joke; attacks George W. Bush 'and his cronies';""

Well, he got that much absolutely right, didn't he?

Don T.

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05 Mar 10 - 05:55 PM (#2857098)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""in Order to form a more perfect Union (1), establish Justice (2), insure domestic Tranquility (3), provide for the common defense (4), promote the general Welfare (5), and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity (6)""   (The numbers are mine)

Well, for Democrats that's pie in the sky.

The repubs have destroyed (1), (2), (3), and (4), totally ignored (5), and made (6) available only to themselves.

Wow,....And I always thought all Americans believed in the Constitution (except G W Bush, "It's only a piece of paper")

Don T.

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05 Mar 10 - 06:04 PM (#2857104)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

That's about right, Don...

Anything the right wants to do which is illegal they think is unconstitutional and anything that the liberals are doing they think should be illegal... Kinda mixed up logic with the right (ahhhh, the wrong)...

BTW, Sawz... Don't think I didn't notice yer restraint... There's hope for ya' yet, son... Not much, but hope...lol...

B~

---

07 Mar 10 - 11:55 PM (#2858824)
Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: GUEST,John

Bobert--

I love this country and its tradition of free speech.

I love people in the streets to oppose Jim Crow (my own first). I loved kids in the streets against the Vietnam war. I loved people in the streets for peace.

But, Bobert, I love them all. Not just the ones that agree with me, or the ones where every signmaker can spell. I love them all.

I hope you took the opportunities you had to speak. In the streets if you felt that call.

These people say they feel threatened by their government. I have felt that way myself. Sometimes I went into the streets and spoke, sometimes I didn't. If they feel that way, then no wonder they are speaking. I love them for it.

Grace in the face of political opposition is one of the things that defines the good part of American politics. It pleases me when I see and hear Americans who show that virtue. I try to show it toward my opponents.

My opponents are not usually villains or idiots, they are heroes for their own values. To call them nasty names does me no credit at all. It is especially abhorrent to me to suggest that a crowd of thousands must all be villains and idiots, because I have been told that some of them are.

---

08 Mar 10 - 12:17 AM (#2858830)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Killer liberal government haters doing illegal things:

Pentagon Gunman was busted in Reno for Pot

Reports say that Bedell was calm Thursday when he coolly drew a 9-millimeter handgun from his pocket and started firing during the point-blank attack that turned into a four person shooting spree.

A distrust of the federal government was apparent on Internet social networking blogs that officials believe were authored by Bedell

On Feb. 5, Bedell posted $2,080 cash bail in Reno on charges of driving under the influence of marijuana and possession of a controlled substance, records show. He was given a March 2 arraignment date in Reno Justice Court and failed to appear.

Bedell was arrested in Reno at South Virginia Street and Longley Lane about 9:30 p.m. Feb. 1 following a traffic stop. A deputy suspected he was intoxicated due to the vehicle drifting across travel lanes and stopping 50-feet before approaching a red light.

Inside Bedell's car was a drug pipe with marijuana residue and three plastic containers of marijuana, the report said.

"I could smell a strong odor of marijuana emitting from the vehicle," Deputy John Schuette wrote. "I explained to Bedell that I could smell marijuana and asked him to hand it to me. Bedell retrieved a pink colored metal pipe from his right pants pocket and gave it to me."

Schuette wrote Bedell told him the last time he used marijuana was "a couple weeks ago," and later revised his answer to "a couple hours ago."....

---

08 Mar 10 - 12:39 AM (#2858840)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Reefer Madness! That really exists! I thought it was just a publicity campaign!

O..O
=o=

---

08 Mar 10 - 02:06 AM (#2858863)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the last time he used marijuana was "a couple weeks ago," and later revised his answer to "a couple hours ago."....

So was it weeks or days? don't matter to a stoner. Facts are irrelevant.

They believe something is a certain way and facts do not mean anything to them.

---

08 Mar 10 - 02:13 AM (#2858870)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Bullshit, Sawz. Threatening to kill a sitting President is grounds for immediate investigation by te FBI and Secret Service no matter who sits.


A

---

08 Mar 10 - 07:57 AM (#2859058)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Actually, this ahs nuthin' to do with pot and everything to do with hate groups... Seems that every time we have a Dem president the number of hate groups increases... Happened in the 90s and it's happening again... Difference now is that hate is "in" and being marketed on FOX and dozens of talk radio shows... We didn't have that brand being sold in the 90s... Yes, we hd conservative talk shows but not with the hate that these folks are selling these days...

Washington Post had an interesting article on this yesterday and maybe I'll talk more about it later but right now...

...gotta go to work...

B~

---

11 Mar 10 - 12:49 AM (#2861577)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Bullshit, Sawz. Threatening to kill a sitting President is grounds for immediate investigation by te FBI and Secret Service no matter who sits."

So what was the results of this investigation?

---

11 Mar 10 - 11:52 PM (#2862330)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stephen L. Rich

Is there such a thing as an anti-social socialist?

---

29 Mar 10 - 03:30 PM (#2874928)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Is Moveon.org a Terrorist Organization??

An opponent of government healthcare programs had part of a finger bit off during a fight at a pro-healthcare-reform rally this week in Thousand Oaks. William Rice, 65, of Newbury Park was with a small group of counter-protesters at a vigil Wednesday night organized by Moveon.org when a man bit off part of his left pinky finger during a scuffle, authorities said. Doctors were unable to reattach Rice's finger. Sheriff's detectives Thursday were still looking for the man who bit Rice. Investigators also were sifting through conflicting accounts of the incident, but Rice acknowledged that he threw the first punch. "When he got in my personal space, I popped him in the nose," Rice said in a phone interview Thursday. "I felt like I had no choice other than to defend myself." The incident was reported at 7:26 p.m. Wednesday at Lynn Road and Hillcrest Drive, where more than 100 people gathered for the pro-healthcare-reform vigil.

About 15 people opposed to President Obama's healthcare reform stood across the street from Moveon.org's group. Members of Code Pink: Women for Peace also were there, authorities said. Rice got involved in a heated discussion with a member of Code Pink, said sheriff's Capt. Ross Bonfiglio, a department spokesman. After the argument, Rice returned to where his group was standing. An unidentified man then walked from Moveon.org's area toward the opponents and verbally confronted Rice, allegedly calling him names and acting aggressively, Bonfiglio said. Rice told investigators he felt threatened by the man and punched him in the nose, Bonfiglio said. A fight ensued, during which part of Rice's finger was bitten off, Bonfiglio said. Rice drove himself to Los Robles Hospital & Medical Center in Thousand Oaks. Another man found the bitten-off portion of the finger and took it to Rice at the hospital, Bonfiglio said.

Doctors told Rice the pinky, severed near the second knuckle, could not be reattached because of high bacteria levels from a human bite, he told the Ventura County Star. Rice said he did not initially plan to participate in any demonstration Wednesday. He was driving by when he spotted Code Pink members, and he stopped to see if they were protesting the military, he said. Rice has a son who is an officer in the Marine Corps. After a brief exchange with Code Pink members, Rice said, he was satisfied they were not protesting the military. He was leaving when a man who seemed "deranged" approached and called him an "idiot," he said. Rice said he felt like the man had singled him out because he was the "easiest target." But the incident happened quickly, he said, and he doesn't clearly remember everything that preceded the altercation.

Scott Bush, 43, of Thousand Oaks said he was standing with Rice in the group opposed to healthcare reform when the man walked over from the Moveon.org group. Bush said the man asked the group if it supported a public health insurer option, and members responded "no." The man then singled out Rice and asked him why, according to Bush. When Rice responded that he didn't want the government involved in anything, the man moved toward Rice and yelled, "You're an idiot," Bush said.

Bush said Rice then hit the man in a defensive move. The man then pulled Rice into the street, according to Bush. After a fight that lasted only a few seconds, Bush said, he heard Rice say, "He bit my finger off," and he saw a stump. Several witnesses said Rice's shirt was ripped during the scuffle. Bush said he later found the roughly 1-inch piece of finger about 20 feet away and took it to Los Robles Hospital. The suspect left before police arrived, authorities said. He was described as a short man with a medium build, wearing a blue cap, black shirt and black shorts. Detectives were still trying to determine much about the incident, including whether the man intended to bite off Rice's finger, sheriff's Detective Eric Buschow said. Rice said he thinks the man intended to harm him but not bite off his finger.

Authorities did not consider the man a criminal suspect Thursday and were not looking to arrest him, Buschow said. "We want him to come forward so we can talk to him. We want to hear his side," Buschow said. "He's part of the puzzle." The man did give an account of the incident to people at the Moveon.org gathering before he disappeared, said Joanie McClellan of Thousand Oaks, an organizer of the vigil. The man was visibly shaken, with his glasses askew and a lens missing, she said.

McClellan said no one at the gathering knew the man, who never gave his name and said he wasn't on the Moveon.org list. McClellan, also involved with Code Pink in Ventura County, said she did not see the altercation. The man told McClellan he was on his way to the healthcare vigil when Rice heckled and then hit him, she said. The man acknowledged he had bitten Rice's finger, she said. "We had asked him to go and sit on the grass so he could calm down, and I never saw him again," she said.

Although he did not plan to protest Wednesday, Rice said, he's opposed to government involvement in general, except for mail service and the military. "It doesn't have any business in anybody's healthcare," he said. Rice acknowledged he used the Medicare he gets as a senior when he went to the hospital Wednesday. He said it was the first time he used the program, to which he remains adamantly opposed. "If I had any other options, I would not have used it, even though I pay for it," he said.

Emily Kryer, spokeswoman for U.S. Rep. Lois Capps, said the incident will not affect plans for a healthcare forum Friday night in Oxnard. The congresswoman will co-host a community information session at 6 p.m. at Bethel AME Church. Kryder said Oxnard police officers will provide security. Anyone with information about the biting incident is asked to call Crime Stoppers at 800-222-TIPS.

Blood in the streets.

---

29 Mar 10 - 04:12 PM (#2874976)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Sawz, you sound kinda desperate there, buddy. Do you think there is a difference between one overheated nutball and a whole organization of them?


A

---

29 Mar 10 - 04:13 PM (#2874977)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Yes, Move.On is most definately a terrorist organization.

---

29 Mar 10 - 10:54 PM (#2875250)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Being as Obama doesn't want to call Al Qaeda terrorists, or call it a war on terror, why should we begin labeling those groups terrorists, that we simply don't agree with????

Some people are just too easily whipped up by the media frenzies!

GfS

---

29 Mar 10 - 11:34 PM (#2875268)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,TIA

Bobert nailed it above. Hate is on the rise, just like pre OK City. Go Google Hutaree. Honestly now, do you think they watch Fox or MSNBC?

---

30 Mar 10 - 11:44 AM (#2875645)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Do you think there is a difference between one overheated nutball and a whole organization of them?"

Do you Amos? That is the point.

---

30 Mar 10 - 12:10 PM (#2875673)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Yep.


A

---

30 Mar 10 - 12:18 PM (#2875683)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Are UC Berkley students a terrorist organization??

Overnight, an impromptu riot to protest budget cuts and tuition increases at the University of California-Berkeley snowballed to include more than 200 people and resulted in flaming dumpsters, broken windows and dancing in the streets.

The Daily Californian reports that the riot emerged from a campus dance party and metastasized into an all-out fiery clash between students and police.

    Officers physically pushed the crowd back so that Berkeley fire personnel could extinguish the flames. Sporadic fights broke out within the crowd, causing police to advance their line on the growing mob and use batons to push it back.

    Members of the crowd hurled glass bottles, plastic buckets, pizza and other objects at the police line. The crowd's size and intensity fluctuated as the police and protesters clashed and multiple members of the crowd were detained by police.

---

Mob attacks UC-Berkeley chancellor's home

BERKELEY, Calif., Dec. 12 2009 (UPI) -- An angry mob descended on the home of University of California-Berkeley Chancellor Robert Birgeneau, breaking windows and throwing torches, police said.

Eight of the estimated 75 people who took part in the Friday night attack were arrested on a variety of charges, including attempted arson and assault with a deadly weapon, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Saturday.

The crowd voiced anger over student fee increases and budget cuts.

"No justice, no peace," they chanted before smashing planters, windows and lights, the newspaper said.

Campus spokesman Dan Mogulof said several threw torches at the home, where Birgeneau was awakened by his wife, Mary Catherine.

"These are criminals, not activists," Birgeneau said in a statement Saturday. "The attack at our home was extraordinarily frightening and violent. My wife and I genuinely feared for our lives. The people involved in this action will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I want to emphasize that they represent an extreme minority of our students."

The attack came a day after university police arrested 66 people tied to a four-day protest this week at the school's Wheeler Hall, which also was the site of a Nov. 20 occupation and clash between students and authorities."

---

30 Mar 10 - 12:30 PM (#2875700)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Students protesting for greater access to education is at least a worthy goal, even if the mob got out of control and resorted to property damage. I don't know if I would even call them an organization, let alone a terrorist organization. You keep bringing in these sketchy associations to divert the thread from its original subject, Sawz. Why not post an article demanding to know whether Japanese whalers are a terrorist organization? This is a silly rhetorical device designed to nullify the subject by redefining the topic with ridiculous associations.

A

---

30 Mar 10 - 12:33 PM (#2875708)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Amos,

"Students protesting for greater access to education is at least a worthy goal,"

So, having decided that the opinions of others as to what is a worthwhile goal ( cutting the cost and control of governemnet, and keeping medical costs down), YOU decided what is appropriate to demonstrate about????

Shame, shame...

---

30 Mar 10 - 12:36 PM (#2875709)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

For those who missed the UC Berkeley Free Speech Movement...   

       ...and fight the 60s wars all over again

       Back with Barry

       This is gettin' scary

       Back with Barry's Boys!

{appologies to the Chad Mitchell Trio}

---

30 Mar 10 - 12:56 PM (#2875732)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Are you asserting that access to education is not a worthwhile goal, Bruce? Or is it their exercise of unhampered speech?


A

---

30 Mar 10 - 01:07 PM (#2875747)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Amos,

Are YOU asserting that concerns over the growing government control and increasing tax burden are not worthwhile goals? Or is it the exercise of unhampered speech by those that do not agree with you?

---

30 Mar 10 - 05:30 PM (#2875959)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Planning to shoot law enforcment people and protesting are worlds apart in the logical mind... The illogical mind??? Maybe a different story... I donno... My mind can't get from protesting to planning cop shooting... Just can't get there...

B~

---

30 Mar 10 - 06:44 PM (#2876018)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Bobert:

"Planning to shoot law enforcment people and protesting are worlds apart in the logical mind... "

I agree. But the Christian Milita ones arrested were no more representative of conservatives than the Black Panthers that DID shoot police were of all blacks back in the 60's/70's .

---

30 Mar 10 - 06:49 PM (#2876023)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

All political movements are of necessity "terrorist".

Organisation of humanity is a terrorist act.

All governments....especially "democratic" governments engage in terrorism, against their own people and against the people of other nations whom they perceive to be weaker, but an ideological danger.

Once again we are being diverted into splitting hairs, the enemy is obvious but we continue to tolerate it because we fear we may lose what we have gained through terrorism.

---

30 Mar 10 - 07:09 PM (#2876035)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Well Well Well. Teabaggers don't like taxes being heaped on them and stuff rammed down their throat and when they protest. So bitter, angry Bobert cranks up his hate machine another notch and calls them terrorists.

Students riot, terrorize the Chancellor and his family, set fires, battle with police and destroy personal property to protest higher tuition and they are Angels.

Unhampered speech means you can terrorize people by attempting to burn their house down with them inside and left wingers will give you a pass.

You and Bobert live in symbiosis like Felix and Oscar. A mutual admiration society.

---

30 Mar 10 - 07:10 PM (#2876037)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

he said he recognizes that the movement involves people with "mainstream, legitimate concerns" about the national debt, government expansion and big spending.

"I wouldn't paint in broad brush and say that everybody who is involved or have gone to a tea party rally or meeting are somehow on the fringe," Obama said. "I think that there's a broader circle around that core group of people who are legitimately concerned about the deficit, who are legitimately concerned that the federal government may be taking on too much."



That is what Obama said- I guess some here need to tellhim how wrong he is...

---

30 Mar 10 - 07:18 PM (#2876043)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

"These people could be anybody. I wouldn't put it past the Democrats to plant somebody there. They're trying to label the tea party, but I've never seen any racial slurs."

-- Dale Robertson, self-proclaimed founder of the Tea Party, quoted by the Washington Times.

The only problem? The Washington Independent caught Robertson at a Tea Party rally last month holding a sign with a racial slur. Story here> "Dale Robertson, a Tea Party activist who operates TeaParty.org, is getting stung for an old photo Ñ taken at the Feb. 27, 2009 Tea Party in Houston Ñ in which he holds a sign reading ÒCongress = Slaveowner, Taxpayer = Niggar.Ó

After the ResistNet listerv promoted ÒLiberty ConcertsÓ to be held by TeaParty.org, a source passed on this photo of Robertson, after the jump.

Update: Josh Parker of the Houston Tea Party Society tells me that Robertson was booted out of the event for this sign."



Read more: http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/03/29/bonus_quote_of_the_day.html#ixzz0jhl2NfSx

---

30 Mar 10 - 07:23 PM (#2876046)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: McGrath of Harlow

Perhaps the truth might at last start to trickle through to the demonisers of Obama that,far from being a radical of the extreme left, he is a decent moderate politician, who would be quite at home politically in the centre-right in most democratic countries.

---

30 Mar 10 - 08:41 PM (#2876109)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Tea Party people didn't give a flying fuck about taxes when George Bush was the president...

(But he was a Republican and white, BOberdz...)

My point, exactly...

But back to Tea Party people... Look at the rallies... These are the same right winged base that the Repubs have always taken for granted and either vote or don't vote depending on their mood... They ain't the folks who got the big tax cuts under Bush... They ain't the upper 5%ers... No, they are the Joe the un-Plumber (what does he really do???)... So ya'll can take the tax argument and flush it... That dog don't hunt... Oh, BTW... 95% of them have had their taxes go, ahhhhhhh, down under Obama so ya'll just quit with the stupid arguments and get to meat of the problem: Obama is black and he is a democrat... That's ths tory here... The rest are lies piled upon lies...

B~

---

30 Mar 10 - 10:12 PM (#2876145)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Alice

Someone has started a page of photos of Tea Party signs using "creative" spelling and grammar. They call it Teabonics.

Teabonics on flickr

My favorite so far is
"Make English America's offical Language"

(offical is underlined twice)

They seem to have trouble with "ial". Several spell socialism as
socilism.

---

30 Mar 10 - 10:17 PM (#2876147)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Alice

Oh, now I have a new favorite Tea Party protest sign.

These are like the signs you see at Engrish.com.


"Remember descent the highest form of patriotic"

---

30 Mar 10 - 10:29 PM (#2876155)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Tea Party people didn't give a flying fuck about taxes when George Bush was the president."

But now that Obama is jacking them up, they do give a flying fuck.

Sounds logical to me.

Oh and the $400 dollar tax break? How does that stack up against the $600 rebate from GWB?

---

30 Mar 10 - 10:49 PM (#2876162)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

The tea party was established by Dick Army and his lobbying group to serve as a diversion from recent Republican sins and promote the same old interests of the extremely wealthy. Steer the anger and outrage of the common man victims of Wall Street crimes and you will secure votes of the unwashed public for the interests of Wall St.

View it as a stage play and it makes more sense.

Act one - the set up and the theft
Act two - Hiding in plain sight while others fight
Act three - The great irony.


We are currently in Act 2 which is my favorite. It involves steering the anger of the common man away from the robbers and to direct their wrath at the goverment, no matter how violent or chaotic such a campaign will become, is crucial for the saftey of the 13 banks, the 13 bankers and 11 familes who own them. These families will do anything to avoid the personal blowback following the greatest deliberate financial theft in recorded history. Just like a desperate bank robber, but on a monumental scale, they will bribe, they will take hostages, they will make demands, they will create diversions, they will murder (by proxy).

Steering the outrage of reasonable people as well as the blind thrashing by the irrational angry victims of the God and guns crowd, is the chief concern of well to do bank robbers. Calling the goverment totalitarian, fascist or communist is only half of the diversion.

The savagery committed by men with such clean uncalloused hands is felt in ; every state capitol, every public classroom, in every small business, in every manufacturing plant, in every forclosure, in every lost job and in every man woman and child who do not have $400 million dollars to cushion their fall.

It reminds me of how the Pope is not concerned by the deaf children who were raped by clergy , but was only concerned of how the church may remain safe and secure and how to harbor the pedergasts safely away from controversy.

The final act of this evil financial play will involve the evil that is done after robbery in Act 1, after the diversions and fighting in the streets in act two. It is about the tragedy that tears apart every family and every nation while the robbers come out of hiding. It concludes with the irony that the victims of the great theft were unable to keep their eyes on the ball, to see who the real villains were, and end up blindly killing each other. In the end we see the victims serving the very people who destroyed their life.

---

30 Mar 10 - 10:53 PM (#2876164)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Is the SEIU a terrorist Organization??

African American man beaten by SEIU Union Thugs in St. Louis at townhall protest

Left wing racial hatred and violence at it's ugliest.

---

30 Mar 10 - 11:28 PM (#2876180)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Are Japanese whalers are a terrorist organization?


According to a report from the news agency EFE, yesterday three crewmembers of a Japanese whaling ship suffered injuries from corrosive acid thrown at them by protesters from the anti-whaling group, Sea Shepherd, in the waters off Antarctica. The environmentalist group, which has been dubbed by some a "terrorist organization," has been known to resort to militant tactics before in order to disrupt Japanese whaling vessels, such as lobbing stink-bombs and shining laser beams, but acid may be the most dangerous tool in their arsenal. While Sea Shepherd justifies its tactics as a way help end the practice of whaling, some are wondering if maybe they have gone too far.

---

31 Mar 10 - 12:34 AM (#2876199)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

If you squint a bit, a dachshund does look a bit like a mole. . . .

Don Firth

---

31 Mar 10 - 01:01 AM (#2876204)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don Firth: "If you squint a bit, a dachshund does look a bit like a mole. . . ."

GfS: last time you posted about small animals, you seemed to favor ferrets.........not so satisfying anymore??...Too small???

Winking!
GfS

---

31 Mar 10 - 01:12 AM (#2876211)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

All kidding aside........

Remember back in the 60's, the slogan and bumper sticker that said: "suppose the gave a war, and nobody came"

Perhaps we should not be recruited into somebody else's contrived cause, and these 'examples' of media hyped incidents, and or their interpretations.....fanned to bring civil unrest, and to suck everyone into it!

How widespread, and/or violent should it get, before those who got sucked into making it more than it is, get before we second think about promoting it???

We, who are musicians, should be on the side of peace, and use our instruments as weapons for peace, not for promoting causes that nobody is sure of the origins, or where it is leading the country to.

Peace, GfS

---

31 Mar 10 - 05:39 AM (#2876307)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""Yes, Move.On is most definately a terrorist organization.""

This one puzzles me Sawzaw.

Do you actually believe that there is an organisation arranging to have its members stick a finger into the mouth of opposing protesters, and have it bitten off?

To what end?........Infect the enemy with HIV?..........Have them convicted of cannibalism?.......WHAT?

If that's terrorism, it seems strangely ineffective.

Ten outings, and they won't even be able to write to their Congressman.

Don T.

---

31 Mar 10 - 05:48 AM (#2876312)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

Sorry, that was Rig.

Nevertheless, my comments re Sawzaw's lengthy cut 'n paste stand.

Don T.

---

31 Mar 10 - 08:00 AM (#2876386)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, GfS... And alot of us do use the stage as a forum to talk about stuff... I know I do and have had complaints from promoters for it becuase the Sawzes in the audience don't like it... But I don't go on and on... Just a little here and a little there...

Mah man, Sparky Rucker, now??? Different story... His motto is that "if yer gonna get the song yer gonna have to listen to the sermon"... lol... BTW, Sparky can sho nuff deliver a sermon, too...

B~

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31 Mar 10 - 12:05 PM (#2876543)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Cool, Bobert!....Sing on..play on....point the way!!!
All this contrived crap HAS to be put in it's place...it's an exercise, in lameness...and all too luring!

Regards,
GfS

---

31 Mar 10 - 07:25 PM (#2876936)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

"Ten outings, and they won't even be able to write to their Congressman."


             Congressmen don't listen anyway.

    The Southern Poverty Law Center is another one.

---

01 Apr 10 - 01:49 AM (#2877115)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Don T.

When a member of one organization bites off the finger of a member of another organization, it should be obvious which organization is more terrorist like?

That is the purpose. Which is the terrorist organization? Which is the violent organization?

---

15 Apr 10 - 11:19 AM (#2887258)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Tea Party 48% Obama 44%

On major issues, 48% of voters say that the average Tea Party member is closer to their views than President Barack Obama. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 44% hold the opposite view and believe the president's views are closer to their own.

Not surprisingly, Republicans overwhelmingly feel closer to the Tea Party and most Democrats say that their views are more like Obama's. Among voters not affiliated with either major political party, 50% say they're closer to the Tea Party while 38% side with the President.

The partisan divide is similar to that found in the President's Job Approval Ratings and on the Generic Congressional Ballot.

"Unaffiliated voters are continuing the pattern they established in 2006 and 2008 of opposing the party in power," notes Scott Rasmussen, president of Rasmussen Reports. In his new book, Scott makes the case that "the American people don't want to be governed from the left, the right, or the center. They want to govern themselves." In Search of Self-Governance has received positive reviews from across the political spectrum and is available at Rasmussen Reports and Amazon.com.

(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.

Eighty-seven percent (87%) of those in the Political Class say their views are closer to the president. The Obama Administration has created a significantly larger government and political role in the economy.

Sixty-three percent (63%) of Mainstream Americans say their views are closer to the Tea Party.

Last week, Rasmussen Reports released data showing that 47% of voters felt closer to the views of Tea Party members than to Congress. Only 26% felt closer to Congress.

The new polling found that just 33% believe their views are closer to the average member of a Labor Union than to Congress. In fact, a plurality of voters were undecided when asked about that comparison. While 48% of Democrats said their own views were closer to the average union member, most Republicans and unaffiliated voters could not choose between the two.

In a head-to-head comparison, 45% felt closer to the average Tea Party Member while 35% felt closer to the average union member.

Fifty-three percent (53%) believe their views are closer to the average school teacher than to Congress. Teachers scored six points higher than the Tea Party members when compared to Congress.

In a head-to-head match-up, 47% said they felt closer to the average school teacher while 41% said they felt closer to the average Tea Party member. Once again, the results betray a heavy partisan difference. Democrats prefer the school teachers, Republicans are closer to the Tea Party, and unaffiliated voters are evenly divided.

Earlier polling found that just 16% of voters nationwide consider themselves part of the Tea Party Movement. However, views of the Tea Party remain more positive than negative among voters. Just 11% believe Congress is doing a good or an excellent job.

---

15 Apr 10 - 03:10 PM (#2887388)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""When a member of one organization bites off the finger of a member of another organization, it should be obvious which organization is more terrorist like?

That is the purpose. Which is the terrorist organization? Which is the violent organization?""


Well, to me there is another question to be answered first.

A verbal exchange of views took place, and then one party escalated the situation into physical violence.

Was that party the one you describe as a terrorist?........NO!.......See below.

""Rice told investigators he felt threatened by the man and punched him in the nose, A fight ensued, during which part of Rice's finger was bitten off,""

""Rice said in a phone interview Thursday. "I felt like I had no choice other than to defend myself.""

Maybe the man he punched felt even more threatened and also felt that he had no choice but to defend himself.

You make a very poor case for calling the man who first offered violence a victim, and the man he assaulted a terrorist.

I think you might n4eed to re-examine your argument.

Don T.

---

15 Apr 10 - 04:16 PM (#2887423)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Do that font again sawz and I will punch you in the nose.


After an absence of 4 months due to a near fatal attack, one person welcomed me back. For the rest of you, you can take your Indifference and smoke it. Indifference is a Burmese Indica \ Northern light Sativa blend.


Palin's Platoon and Beck's Brigade; only lefties may click here

btw since Beck has said many things regarding the bloody murder of progressives he now tries to mention Ghandi at least once every show.

---

15 Apr 10 - 04:24 PM (#2887432)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST

Donuel

I disagree with most of what you post, but welcome back.

Bypass, or just stents?


( 9 stents now, and an ICD)

---

15 Apr 10 - 04:25 PM (#2887433)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,beardedbruce

sorry, that was me- no cookies on this loaner machine

---

15 Apr 10 - 04:58 PM (#2887461)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,beardedbruce

PHOTO RELEASED of GOP Official and Boyfriend Beaten Bloody
by Jim Hoft

Jack A. Neal posted this photo and comment on Bobby Jindal쳌fs Facebook page tonight: Hi folks. I was in New Orleans this past Friday night. I was dining within a half block of where the incident involving Allee Butsch happened. I joined this group so that I might share the info, as well as a photo I took. More to come쳌c
Via The Hayride.




Allee Butsch suffered a broken leg from the beatdown outside to the SRLC dinner at Brennan쳌fs Restaurant in New Orleans. She had her leg operated on over the weekend and it will take her months to recover. Her boyfriend Joe Brown suffered a broken nose, a broken jaw, and a concussion. They were attacked after leaving the Southern Republican Leadership Conference dinner at Brennan쳌fs Restaurant.


Police are looking for a Caucasian male who appeared to be dirty, in his 20쳌fs, 6쳌Œ1쳌쳌 tall, thin build with a thin face. He had a beard and auburn color hair in a pony tail. He was wearing a light color T shirt and dark color pants. Up to 5 men beat the couple after they left the GOP event on Friday night.

---

15 Apr 10 - 06:26 PM (#2887519)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

And you're posting this why, Brucie?

Are we supposed to all jump to the conclusion that this was done by "THE FAR LEFT"?

Jesus, Man, you've sunken to new lows (I'll admit, I didn't think it was possible)- your boy Rush would be proud of ya.

I doubt this was the first person to be beat on in the history of New Orleans-

---

15 Apr 10 - 06:51 PM (#2887529)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Is Facebook now a reliable source for real news? Do they have fact checkers? Do they compare independent sources? No? No? No?

This is somebody's say-so and has no more solidity than the used beer offered by a drunk behind the pub.

---

15 Apr 10 - 08:34 PM (#2887592)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

My deeepest hope is that the Tea Party runs a candidate for president since Sawz thinks they would win over Obmaa... Please, Lord, let the Tea Party put forth a candidiate!!! I am being very serious here...

The problem with the Tea Party is that they are a bunch of crybabies that have little or no understanding of the real world... The moderates, who purdy much stay out of politics except at election time, are ceratinly going to find the debates between the Tea Party candidtae and Obama ver enlightening...

Here's the rub, folks...

The Tea Party folks are pissed off at the government but when it comes to ***their*** fucking Medicare or Social Security it's "Keep your hands off what's mine"... That is the Tea Party in a nutshell... They hate the government as long as the government is helping folks they disagree with but whejhn it comes to them persoanlly, they can't get enough government...

I say, "Screw 'um"... If they hate the government that much than I'd like to see them start a movement to turn down anything on the government's menu of services and/or entitlements!!!

Yeah, come on Tea Baggers... Put up ot shut up!!!

B~

---

15 Apr 10 - 09:51 PM (#2887623)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Is NPR Fair?

....there are problems with the Tea Bag animation. Chief among them is it doesn't fit with NPR values, one of which is a belief in civility and civil discourse.

Fiore is talented, but this cartoon is just a mean-spirited attack on people who think differently than he does and doesn't broaden the debate. It engages in the same kind of name-calling the cartoon supposedly mocks...

...The 90-second animation, which creator Mark Fiore calls satire, rather summarily dismisses participants in the Tea Party movement as inarticulate, paranoid bumblers. The video "teaches" the viewer to speak conversational "tea bag."...

---

Do you believe in civility and civil discourse or mean-spirited attacks on people who think differently than you do?

I am siding with NPR on this one.

---

15 Apr 10 - 10:03 PM (#2887627)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

From the NPR ombudsman: But if NPR continues using Fiore, it should quickly find a cartoonist to counter his decidedly liberal take. Critics are right to take NPR to task for only representing one side using such a strong visual medium as an animated cartoon with sound and text.

When has FOX ever said anything like this about itself? The idea (put forward on this very website) of NPR being a shill of the "far left" is risible.

Thanks for the link, Sawz.

---

16 Apr 10 - 01:17 AM (#2887689)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Yes Mouse, and if you look you will see a satire of Obama from the same guy but it does not seem as mean spirited to me.

---

16 Apr 10 - 01:22 AM (#2887692)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Sawz thinks they would win over Obmaa"

Bobert is trying to project the results of a poll on me the same way he projects his own hatred and racism on others.

---

16 Apr 10 - 01:31 AM (#2887696)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,TIA

Bobert? Racist? Dude, I'd love to see things from your perspective, but I just can't shove my head THAT far up my ass.

---

16 Apr 10 - 01:59 AM (#2887706)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

200!..Nope the baggers are not a terrorist group..that is silly! They are just pissed off taxpayers who don't want to be gouged beyond control, to pay for the people who have a disproportionate sense of entitlement!

Whether you agree with them or not, they have the right to bitch about it...Jeez, look at all the bitching that goes on here!..You bitch, they bitch......I think peace, and contentment is better for a musical mind..however turmoil often presses the best, out of us composers!!

GfS

---

16 Apr 10 - 02:38 AM (#2887718)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,TIA

"They are just pissed off {white} taxpayers who don't want to be gouged beyond control, to pay for the {black} people who have a disproportionate sense of entitlement!

Whether you agree with {the whites} or not, they have the right to bitch about {the blacks}...Jeez, look at all the bitching that goes on here!..You bitch, they bitch"

Not sayin' that GfS is espousing this (really), but this is what it's truly about.

---

16 Apr 10 - 02:57 AM (#2887727)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

TIA, I was listening to the radio, today, and they wanted people to call in who happen to go down to a rally, and just report in, on what they saw. the participants we of a wide spectrum, and quite a bit of diversity. I don't think this is a black/white issue.. Though the liberal left like to portray it as anything, that it is not.

recent polls find the majority of people AGREE more on the policies the baggers say they stand for, than Obama. The liberal left is in the minority,(on the policy issue)..and the baggers don't like the way this latest health care bill was rammed through, and feel that the federal government is passing stuff, against the will of the majority og people.

That's the stuff I hear, and you know what??...some of that is quite true.....

GfS

---

16 Apr 10 - 08:05 AM (#2887862)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,beardedbruce

Greg F,

I posted a FACT of something happening- more than YOU have with your accusations against Tea Party members. I left the CONCLUSION as to WHO did it to be determined by investigation. Did the post I made say anything about the political side of the attacker????



I notice YOU had no problem stating that "Tea Party Members" did specific acts. Where is the evidence they were members? Hell, where is the evidence other than the statments of those out to smear them that it even happened?

Another example of double standards- since you do not apply that standard to what YOU have posted, to ask me to apply it to mine is bigotry, bias, and prejudice.

---

16 Apr 10 - 08:21 AM (#2887868)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Call in polls are even more bogus than the ones that are designed to elicit a specfic result...

I'll repeat: Let the Tea Party run a candidate...

I mean, it's easy to say moronish things such as "I want my country back" and "I want my freedom"... What in the hell do either of those statement actually mean???

Well, I'll tell ya' what they mean... Absolutely nothing... Those aren't policy posotions... They are pep rally stuff... Might of fact, with all the press that these Tea Party people have gotten I don't recall one single policy position that these folks have put forward??? Not one... Any of you righties here know of any???

B~

---

16 Apr 10 - 08:26 AM (#2887874)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

"The Tea Party: A Heartfelt Hymn of American Redemption
by Rep. Thaddeus G. McCotter (R-MI)

Defending the Tea Party to its opponents is like explaining Bob Dylan to his critics: their ears don't hear what your heart understands.

For a year now, Tea Partiers have peaceably assembled and petitioned government for the redress of grievances; and, for a year now, the political class has feared, reviled and defied them.

In sum, Washington power-brokers and special interests treat the Tea Party movement as a political bacillus to be quarantined until high priced pollsters, pundits and consultants clad in Gucci lab coats can find a vaccine. In truth, the Tea Party movement is a soulful, spontaneous call for the restoration of citizens' God-given rights and a revitalization of our representative institutions so that "We the People" can preserve our cherished way of life. Thus, a Tea Party protest is a hymn of American redemption, one which to truly be heard must be felt in one's heart.

Indeed, amid the folksy din of organic theatrics, at its principled core the Tea Parties constitutes an earnest, spontaneous, decentralized political movement arising from diverse grassroots centers of gravity. Bonded by a shared faith in their freedom and American Exceptionalism, the Tea Party's eclectic mix of Republicans, Independents, Libertarians and Democrats is deeply concerned about the challenges confronting this great nation we've inherited and must bequeath to our children. Consequently, as patriots rather than materialists, Tea Partiers measure their loss of sovereignty by the growth of big government's insane, unsustainable spending, which edges us further toward fiscal implosion and exacerbates the disorder within our troubled republic.

Unlike the political class whose power, privilege and wealth increases commensurately with the expansion of the state, Tea Partiers know their own liberty, sovereignty, security, prosperity and self-evident truths are eroded by big government. Therefore, Tea Partiers realize the biggest special interest is big government, and it is dismissive and disdainful of their aspirations for responsive democracy and limited government.

Shut out and shunned, to be heard the Tea Partiers have guilelessly taken to the public square and, yes, foppishly adopted the themes and symbols of our nation's Founding generation (who themselves always considered the American Revolution a restoration of their traditional rights that had been usurped by an arbitrary and capricious king). Of course, the Tea Partiers' appearance, ingenuousness and patriotism render them ready fodder for elitists' snooty slurs and worse.

Still, Tea Partiers persevere in their entrepreneurial idealism to engage the government created to ensure – not infringe – their freedom. Braced by their belief in America's promise, possibilities and, above all, her people, the undaunted Tea Partiers' continue to utter the politically incorrect heresy that true human progress is not measured by the enlargement of bureaucracy and big government; it is measured in the expansion of liberty and self-government. And, though never pitch perfect, they voice the broader public's desire to stanch big government's march to omnipotence, not through a radical revolution, but through the orderly restoration of our God-given rights; the revitalization of our representative institutions; and, thereby, the preservation of our cherished way of life for future generations of free Americans.

So ignore the political class' cat-calls from the cheap seats and rock on, Tea Partiers. Let the Liberty Bell chime in time with your off-beat songs of freedom. One day, your servant government will hear and heed you; and our free republic will applaud and appreciate your heartfelt hymn of American redemption."

---

16 Apr 10 - 08:52 AM (#2887889)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

...I notice YOU had no problem stating that "Tea Party Members" did specific acts...

Beardie, pull your head out of your ass. One more time.

You're making things up out of whole cloth- like your BuShite buddies & your pet hate-speech radio shock-jocks.

If you'd bother to read the postings, you'd find that nowhere in this thread did I accuse the TeaBaggers of anything whatsoever!

As usual, bullshit from a serial bullshitter.

---

16 Apr 10 - 08:59 AM (#2887893)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Greg F.

I will apologize.

"If you'd bother to read the postings, you'd find that nowhere in this thread did I accuse the TeaBaggers of anything whatsoever!

IN THIS THREAD you have not accused Tea Party members of anything.

Your use of Teabaggers, which I have previously stated as offensive ( in several threads) let me think that some posts here were yours, and they were not.

---

16 Apr 10 - 09:10 AM (#2887902)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Whether you agree with {the whites} or not, they have the right to bitch about {the blacks}"

Now Tia is projecting her bigotry on others.

Protesters of a certain race are to be treated differently than proteseter of another race.

The things they say are to be intertereted in dirrerent ways.

The same standard of judgment does not apply to people of two different races.

And Bobert gives his standard boilerplate rant against polls and stats.

The one he locks of in a drawer somewhere when he wants to use stats or polls as proof of something himself.

---

16 Apr 10 - 09:26 AM (#2887910)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Tea Party Not Filled with Nuts
Chris Core, Commentator

http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=1395962&nid=524

---

16 Apr 10 - 09:32 AM (#2887916)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"I'll repeat: [over and over and over...] Let the Tea Party run a candidate."

Where is Code Pink's candidate?

Where is Communist Party's candidate?

The Party in TEA Party refers to the Boston Tea Party which did not have a candidate either.

And I haven't heard any tea partiers use incendiary hateful language like "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun".

---

16 Apr 10 - 11:12 AM (#2887983)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

My post about Tea Party people being better educated than the general public seems to have disappeared.

---

16 Apr 10 - 03:34 PM (#2888125)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I notice that some lefties on here like to find a similarity to the 'baggers' and Timothy McVeigh....ummm pardon me??..I would liken McVeigh more to Bill Ayers (Obama's buddy)...both were planning to blow up Federal buildings, or did. I think there is a bit of a double standard going on, that as Bruce so eloquently posted, "Defending the Tea Party to its opponents is like explaining Bob Dylan to his critics: their ears don't hear what your heart understands."

Now back to the 'roots' of things, their ears don't hear what your heart understands ........

AND they still DON'T GET IT!

gFs

---

16 Apr 10 - 03:51 PM (#2888141)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,TIA

"Now Tia is projecting her bigotry on others."

There is more funny in that line than you can possibly imagine.

---

16 Apr 10 - 03:51 PM (#2888142)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

No, BB, that's not factual. "Baby Killing" is propagandizing for your position by introducing an inflammatory title. "Pro-life" or "Anti-Choice" doesn't carry the obvious bias that you suggest. "Pro-Live Republicans" or "Anti-Choice Republicans" state a position without
using language to incite violence. Yes, "Baby Killing" does incite violence as recent
events by Hill and his ilk suggest.

That is terrorism.

There are factions of the "Tea Party" movement that support militias and intimidating gun-toters who frequent political rallies. These are terrorists by the classic definition, those
who intimidate for political means.

---

16 Apr 10 - 04:07 PM (#2888153)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

Bill Ayers stated purpose was not to hurt people. Just buildings.
Tim McVeigh didn't care if he did kill people.

The issue is whether the Tea Party is a terrorist organization. I don't think the Tea Party is that cohesive. It doesn't really have a stated purpose but is a reactionary organization
which doesn't know how to channel their anger toward any constructive end.

There is a faction in the Tea Party that uses violent language and metaphors to inflame
their crowd. Obama never did this. You didn't see anyone packing heat at an Obama rally unless they wanted to do the unthinkable.

Palin is "locked and loaded" and ready to inflame.

---

16 Apr 10 - 06:43 PM (#2888237)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 03:10 PM

""When a member of one organization bites off the finger of a member of another organization, it should be obvious which organization is more terrorist like?

That is the purpose. Which is the terrorist organization? Which is the violent organization?""


Well, to me there is another question to be answered first.

A verbal exchange of views took place, and then one party escalated the situation into physical violence.

Was that party the one you describe as a terrorist?........NO!.......See below.

""Rice told investigators he felt threatened by the man and punched him in the nose, A fight ensued, during which part of Rice's finger was bitten off,""

""Rice said in a phone interview Thursday. "I felt like I had no choice other than to defend myself.""

Maybe the man he punched felt even more threatened and also felt that he had no choice but to defend himself.

You make a very poor case for calling the man who first offered violence a victim, and the man he assaulted a terrorist.

I think you might n4eed to re-examine your argument.

Don T.

I have moved the above up because Sawzaw, true to form, upon realising that he had no credible answer, simply affected not to notice it.

Your omments SoreJaw?

Don T.

---

16 Apr 10 - 06:45 PM (#2888239)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

"""I'll repeat: [over and over and over...] Let the Tea Party run a candidate."

Where is Code Pink's candidate?""

Probably still got his nose in plaster.

Don T.

---

16 Apr 10 - 06:50 PM (#2888240)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 03:10 PM

""When a member of one organization bites off the finger of a member of another organization, it should be obvious which organization is more terrorist like?

That is the purpose. Which is the terrorist organization? Which is the violent organization?""    Sawzaw


Well, to me there is another question to be answered first.

A verbal exchange of views took place, and then one party escalated the situation into physical violence.

Was that party the one you describe as a terrorist?........NO!.......See below.

""Rice told investigators he felt threatened by the man and punched him in the nose, A fight ensued, during which part of Rice's finger was bitten off,""

""Rice said in a phone interview Thursday. "I felt like I had no choice other than to defend myself.""

Maybe the man he punched felt even more threatened and also felt that he had no choice but to defend himself.

You make a very poor case for calling the man who first offered violence a victim, and the man he assaulted a terrorist.

I think you might need to re-examine your argument.

Don T.

I have moved the above up because Sawzaw, true to form, upon realising that he had no credible answer, simply affected not to notice it.

Your comments SoreJaw?

Don T.

PS perhaps a clone would oblige and get rid of the flawed version above. Thank you.

---

16 Apr 10 - 07:54 PM (#2888261)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The problem isn't as much whether or not the Tea Party is engaging in terrorism as much as they are giving comfort to the Tim McVeigh's within our society... But equally troubling is that the government is letting them get away with stuff that, frankly, the anti-war demonstrators during the mad-dash-to-Iraq would have been busted for...

I am still amazed that a guy could show up at a rally where the president was going to speek with a gun strapped to his leg and a sign making references to killing folks... I mean, had I done that outside a Bush rally, I would more than likely been shot dead... Yet this guy becomes a hero???

It's this kinda stuff that sends a clear message to the Tim McVeigh's of the world that as long as yer on the side of the righties that anything goes and even if you do get caught, in lots of folks eyes you will always be a hero... You know, kinda like suicide bombers...

B~

---

16 Apr 10 - 08:34 PM (#2888276)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Bobert: You know, kinda like suicide bombers...

Or people who kill abortion providers.

---

16 Apr 10 - 08:49 PM (#2888285)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Exactly, mouse... There are alot of very extreme righties out there who get quite a bit of "comfort" (think treason here) from the Tea Party, Rush Limbaugh and FOX...

So yeah, they feel, just like the al qeada suicide bomber, that they are doing this because it's the "right" thing to do... I find it ingredulous that people will kill doctors for religious reasons??? Exactly what religion preaches killing for any reason???

b~

---

17 Apr 10 - 02:36 AM (#2888409)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Jeez!..It sounds like the libs are freaking. Not because of the Tea Party, who they fear, but rather the American public who has caught on, in increasing numbers that their days are numbered.
Also, just watched a Democratic pollster predict them losing the House and Senate in November...BIG TIME!....unless they change their spending spree, and get off their 'policies of nonsense'.

Hey, don't blame me..I already knew they were crackpots, and now the American public in a wide margin wants them OUT!

Too bad the Republicans aren't much better!

Think peace!

GfS

---

17 Apr 10 - 08:28 AM (#2888497)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Define, "libs", GfS...

---

17 Apr 10 - 08:31 AM (#2888498)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

STILL NO RESPONSE FROM SOREJAW, I SEE!

Funny how he fades into the background when called to account for his nonsense.

And of course Gone from Sanity appears, spouting the usual crap.

So predictable you might think they were the same person.

Don T.

---

17 Apr 10 - 06:44 PM (#2888798)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Thee TEa Party is the embodiment of who or what is freaking.   If they could articulate clear arguments and define policy preferences they would be a potential force; as it is they seem to spout meaningless generalities, much in the way GoS does when she's having a bad karma day.


A

---

17 Apr 10 - 07:43 PM (#2888833)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Bingo, Amos... They are, in essence, a party (?) with no real thoughful positions...

They don't like taxes but they offer no alternative...

They want their freedom but don't say what freedoms that have been taken away from them...

They want their country back... Wait just a friggin' minute... So do I but I want if back from the righties...

I mean, everything they say is conflicted... They are like a two-year old having a temper tantrum... It's downright embarrassing knowing the rest of the world is seeing just how dumbed down our country has become... I mean, embarrassing...

B~

---

18 Apr 10 - 01:30 AM (#2888992)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Your comments SoreJaw?"

Comments about what? For lack of finding anything to comment on, I would have to say it is filled with bitterness and rage about something but I don't know what.

You need to focus and be specific.

Try some of that Moonshine and pot that helps Bobert keep it together, helps him keep his anger under control, but not his ego.

That would take one of those dilithium crystal powered deflector shields like they have on the U.S.S. Enterprise that stops those photon torpedoes that the ugly ass Klingons fire when they uncloak their Bird of Prey.

---

20 Apr 10 - 01:06 AM (#2890404)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Well Well Well

Seems like the majority of Americans agree with the tea party.

Get out your standard rant on polls Bobert.

...On major issues, 48% of voters say that the average Tea Party member is closer to their views than President Barack Obama...

---

20 Apr 10 - 01:14 AM (#2890408)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

48% is not a majority. Math. It's not just for scientists anymore.

Further it's just "voters" -- which is about 50% of the population. So less than 25% of the population wants a less activist government. Probably the same people who don't realize that Medicare is a government-run program.

---

20 Apr 10 - 07:56 AM (#2890548)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, the demon in the wording in that poll is "activist"... If you want to get the poll numbers to reflect yer own bias then you load the questions up words that have been domonized and you'll get exactly what you want... That's the problem with polls... My college Stats professor spent an entire hour expalining how that works... Very tricky... Well, not really tricky at all...

BTW, I was watching the Timothy McVeigh tapes on MSNBC last night and at one point it mentioned the phrase that I have made reference to that was on the sign that the guy with the rifle strapped to his leg at an Obama speech... I hadn't been able to pull it up in my rememberator but it was "The Tree of Liberty" quote (think it was by Jefferson but I'll Google it up when I have time tonight) that suggests using violence... Seems that is the common thread that the extremist use to justify their hatreds...

BTW, has Obama come to any of ya'll rightie's door demanding you give him all yer guns???

Didn't think so...

BTW, Part 2, Tim McVeigh was also convinced that the government was going to take away yer guns...

Hmmmmmmmmm???

B~

---

20 Apr 10 - 12:33 PM (#2890675)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

44% hold the opposite view and believe the president's views are closer to their own.

Is 44% less that 48%??

---

"the guy with the rifle strapped to his leg at an Obama speech"

Is 1t even possible to strap a rifle to your leg? Show me how it is done.

When Bobert gets one of these "facts" of his in his teeth he's like a snappin' turtle. You can cut off the turtle's head and he still won't let go.

Tell me Bobert, did he break any laws? Was he drinking moonshine and smokin pot?

Secret Service: armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact.

"In both cases, the subject was not entering our site or otherwise attempting to," said Ed Donovan, a secret service spokesman. "They were in a designated public viewing area. The main thing to know is that they would not have been allowed inside with a weapon."

"Paul Helmke, the president of a gun control group, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said the presence of armed protesters near the president was a recipe for trouble."

HMMMMMMM wasn't Brady shot by some left wingnut that was aimin' for Reagan? The gang that couldn't shoot straight?

The scary protester's weapon was not concealed and legal.

Hinckley's weapon was concealed and illegal.

You gotta watch those lefties, armed and dangerous.

Maybe even drunk on 'shine and high on pot cause they don't believe in the law.

---

20 Apr 10 - 12:58 PM (#2890694)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Sawz: 44% hold the opposite view and believe the president's views are closer to their own.

Is 44% less that 48%??

Look up "majority". It means more than 50%. You were wrong. Get over it.

---

20 Apr 10 - 01:11 PM (#2890700)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

What planet are you from, Sawz??? Did you really no see the photograph??? It was all over the news... Oh, that's right... You don't watch the news... You watch FOX... Maybe someone else, like Rap, if he's around, can tell ya' what kinda rifle it was... It ceratinly wasn't a pistol... It was some kinda shortened rifle...

No, Reagan was merely shot by "some kind of nut" that nothing to do with his political leanings but some obsessive compulsive thing (you know about them) for Jodie Foster...

As for lefties being armed and dangerous??? Not, in general, these days... Unlike the righties who are getting away with a lot of stuff that got lefties killed or arrested in the 60's the lefties have learned that the government will kick yer ass if you promote any of the usual crap that the right routinely gets away with... We definately have a dual standard here... The ignorant people get a pass and the intellegent ones get a butt whup...

That's why the guy with the gun wasn't arrested... Had I gone to a Bush rally with heat and a sign that suggested that that I might use it you can bet that the "athorities" would have come up with some law to have me arrested... You can take that to the bank...

But, no. the Tea Partiers will party until their is another Oklahoma City bombing and then sanity will prevail... Seems we never learn... There are over 800 hate groups in this country and here we are givin' a pass to folks who are in the streets acting quite hostile...

Tell ya'll what... If you support the Tea Party then when the next bombing takes place that blood will be on yer hands... Not mine...

B~

---

20 Apr 10 - 01:28 PM (#2890713)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""Comments about what? For lack of finding anything to comment on, I would have to say it is filled with bitterness and rage about something but I don't know what.

You need to focus and be specific.   Posted by Sawzaw""

Specifically my thick friend, for the third time of asking, your comments on my response to your question:-

""When a member of one organization bites off the finger of a member of another organization, it should be obvious which organization is more terrorist like?

That is the purpose. Which is the terrorist organization? Which is the violent organization?    Posted by Sawzaw""

My response, which you have so far avoided answering, was as follows:-


""Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 03:10 PM

Well, to me there is another question to be answered first.

A verbal exchange of views took place, and then one party escalated the situation into physical violence.

Was that party the one you describe as a terrorist?........NO!.......See below.

""Rice told investigators he felt threatened by the man and punched him in the nose, A fight ensued, during which part of Rice's finger was bitten off,""

""Rice said in a phone interview Thursday. "I felt like I had no choice other than to defend myself.""

Maybe the man he punched felt even more threatened and also felt that he had no choice but to defend himself.

You make a very poor case for calling the man who first offered violence a victim, and the man he assaulted a terrorist.

I think you might need to re-examine your argument.

Don T.""

Comments on that?......Who started the physical violence? Put up, or shut up about

---

20 Apr 10 - 01:30 PM (#2890715)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

OOPS should finish shut up about the other side. Rice convicts himself with those comments.

---

20 Apr 10 - 01:57 PM (#2890729)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Lemme see if 48 is more than 44 that means to me that more people side with the Tea party than don't.

If not then the 44% would be the majority.

So which is the majority?

If there is no majority, I apologize for making a mistake and say that more Americans side with the tea party than they do with Obama.

---

The guy that threw the punch deserved to have his finger bitten off and called an idiot because he said he did not support a public health insurer option.

---

20 Apr 10 - 02:14 PM (#2890744)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

There is no majority. 48%, if the largest chunk, is called a plurality. Is English your first language?

---

20 Apr 10 - 02:24 PM (#2890750)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

I made a mistake, I apologize.

A plurality of Americans side with the tea party.

---

20 Apr 10 - 02:32 PM (#2890753)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Still not true. A plurality of voters agree with the tea party, according to the poll. This still leaves open the question of whether the poll was asking fair and non-leading questions, how many of the tea party's planks* were taken into consideration, etc.

*Oh wait. They don't have planks. Just screaming points.

---

20 Apr 10 - 02:35 PM (#2890755)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Then there's sample selection....

---

20 Apr 10 - 02:47 PM (#2890767)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

I apologize again. I made another mistake.

A plurality of voters agree with the tea party, according to the poll.

---

20 Apr 10 - 04:09 PM (#2890825)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Which Tea Party?

The Palin Party which wants God's values to be enforced with guns and target domestic enemies called Democrats ?

Or the Ron Paul Party that wants the Goverment out of the family value and the Fed monetary business and just leave people alone ?

Or Mr. T's Tea Party? Pity the Foo

---

20 Apr 10 - 05:12 PM (#2890869)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""The guy that threw the punch deserved to have his finger bitten off and called an idiot because he said he did not support a public health insurer option.""

No idiot, the guy that threw the first punch deserved what he got because he threw the first punch.

He was the aggressor, and if anyone was a terrorist it was him.

If somebody is shouting at you, that doesn't confer upon you the right to punch his lights out. If you choose to do so you are committing a criminal act of assault, and he is entitled to defend himself from your attack.

So, once again, who is the terrorist (your word), and who the victim here.

Don T.

---

25 Apr 10 - 12:41 PM (#2894023)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Thank you for calling me an idiot.

He was leaving when a man who seemed "deranged" approached and called him an "idiot,"

---

25 Apr 10 - 12:59 PM (#2894028)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert: "camp outside where a black president is about to speak"

Why are you now claiming that he was camped outside? Did he have any camping gear?

No. You purposefully ad on things that you dream up to ad more stink to your stink bomb.

Just something else that you can play your cute games with when someone asks you for the source of your information.

---

25 Apr 10 - 03:38 PM (#2894118)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""He was leaving when a man who seemed "deranged" approached and called him an "idiot,"

"Deranged" is only his interpretation of the man's condition (I'm assuming he has no psychiatric qualifications), and is merely his opinion.

Even were the man "deranged", he offered only verbal abuse until attacked by Rice, and then defended himself.

The "terrorist" (wrong word, but you wouldn't know any better) was the man who threw the first punch.

A criminal act of assault, which renders the victim justified in fighting in defence of his safety.

Take it to any court and watch it get thrown out.

Don T.

---

25 Apr 10 - 05:11 PM (#2894181)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Alaska Mike

Those of you who believe the Teabaggers are harmless and just expressing their 1st amendment rights should try "The Imagine Game".

---

25 Apr 10 - 05:15 PM (#2894184)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Alaska Mike

Well that didn't work, sorry. Here's the link.

http://ephphatha-poetry.blogspot.com/2010/04/imagine-if-tea-party-was-black-tim-wise.html

---

25 Apr 10 - 08:46 PM (#2894295)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

"Camped out" must be a southern term, Sawz... Nothin' cute about it... That's the way folks talk down here... I mean, people camp out to get tickets for events, to get into a Walmart sale, lots of stuff... No camping gear... Geeze... I thought that folks used that term all over... Guess not... Not meant to mislead... Thought is was a common phrase... Guess not???

Doesn't change much... The guy had the "Tree of Libert sign" and a gun (not a pistol) straped to his leg where Obama was getting ready to speak... Do you deny this???

If so then you are terribly uniformed... The pics were all over the place...

B~

---

26 Apr 10 - 12:54 PM (#2894675)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

"""Camped out" must be a southern term, Sawz... Nothin' cute about it... That's the way folks talk down here... I mean, people camp out to get tickets for events, to get into a Walmart sale, lots of stuff... No camping gear... Geeze... I thought that folks used that term all over""

And you were right mate. They do!

Don't mind Sawz, he has these little tricks he uses when he can't think of a sensible response, like claiming to ignore me "because I'm always bitching" (translation:- I don't agree with his latest petulant rant), or nit-picking over grammar or language (as he just did with you).

It's jest a Dumbshit thang!

LOL
Don T.

---

26 Apr 10 - 01:00 PM (#2894679)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, Don, I know all about his tricks... 9 out of 10 of them are to divert attention from the issue at hand...

B~

---

26 Apr 10 - 11:24 PM (#2895034)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Don(Wyziwyg)T

You have a right to your opinions, Bobert has a right to his opinions.

Do I have a right to my opinions? Can I call you and idiot if your opinion is different from yours?

---

26 Apr 10 - 11:51 PM (#2895044)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Everybody has a right to their own opinion. Nobody has a right to their own facts.

---

27 Apr 10 - 12:21 AM (#2895051)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"The guy had the "Tree of Libert sign"


It was a sign with a quote from Thomas Jefferson who also said "For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security."

and a gun (not a pistol) straped to his leg where Obama was getting ready to speak... Do you deny this???

It was a Smith and Wesson 9mm pistol.

Kostric, who is in his mid-30s and lives near Concord, N.H., said he never entered the town hall or laid eyes on Mr. Obama, who was ushered into the event held in a local school through a back entrance.

Kostric said the Portsmouth police initially asked him to move 1,000 feet away from the school, but then permitted him to stay on the grounds of a church because it was private property. (Federal law generally restricts carrying firearms within 1,000 feet of school grounds, but the law does not apply "on private property not part of school grounds" or to anyone with a carry permit, with Kostric says he has.)

"I was weighing my options," Kostric said. "I was considering walking out to the car and dropping off my firearm and coming back. (The policeman) got off hte phone and relayed to me, that if I wanted to stand on the church property, which is about 30 feet from where I already was, that would be acceptable because it was private property."

Kostric: "Personally, I think Obama is a very charismatic speaker. I can certainly see why people are attracted to him, though I'm surprised at his politics in general, since he has taught classes in constitutional law.

I haven't felt that our country has been headed in the right direction since I first took notice of politics. In fact, it was only because I thought things were going so poorly that I took any notice of politics at all. Certainly when things are going our way we tend to become complacent.

I campaigned for the impeachment of Clinton. I campaigned for the impeachment of Bush. I'm not fond of Obama's policies and I'm sure I'd dislike McCain's just as much (I did live in Arizona)."

U.S. Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan when asked whether   individuals carrying weapons jeopardized the safety of the president, Donovan said, "Of course not."

The individuals would never have gotten in close proximity to the president, regardless of any state laws on openly carrying weapons, he said. A venue is considered a federal site when the Secret Service is protecting the president and weapons are not allowed on a federal site, he added."

---

27 Apr 10 - 12:25 AM (#2895053)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,TIA

Before anyone posts anything else...didja read the link Alaska Mike posted? (use the URL, not the link)

Go do it please.

---

27 Apr 10 - 12:31 AM (#2895054)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

That is a good article. But it's preaching to the choir. Nobody it's aimed out would get it -- it's just more "playing the race card" (meaning saying anything at all about race rather than just bobbing and pretending that everything is just grand).

---

27 Apr 10 - 07:39 AM (#2895182)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Ahhhh, and now for the rest of the quote, The tree of Liberty "must be refresed from time to time with the *blood* of patriots and tyrants"... Like mouse said, yes folks are entitled to their own opinions, just not *their* own "facts"...

The fact is the guy had some kinda rifle strapped to his leg... and that sign... Don't take a Menza Society member to fully comprehend the message...

B~

---

27 Apr 10 - 11:25 AM (#2895285)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Bobert,

"It was a Smith and Wesson 9mm pistol."

NOT a rifle.


Your continuous repeating of a false detail impacts the percieved validity of the rest of what you say.

---

27 Apr 10 - 12:41 PM (#2895322)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

What's the difference??? That makes it just that much worse seein' as handguns are repsonsible for the bulk of the murders in this country... No matter, it was a purdy big gun perfectly capable of taking out anyone the guy wanted to take out... That is the point...

Had I shown up at a rally where Bush was going to speak with a 9mm and a sign that eluded to the shedding of blodd, I would have been arrested or shot... That is the real point here... Not what kind of gun it was...

---

28 Apr 10 - 12:12 AM (#2895680)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Way to strain a gnat and miss the camel, Bruce. You'd make a good Republican.

---

28 Apr 10 - 06:58 PM (#2896272)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""Can I call you and idiot if your opinion is different from yours?""

No Sawz!....If that were the case you would have to call me schizophrenic.

And a lousy typist.

Don T.

---

28 Apr 10 - 07:05 PM (#2896276)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""U.S. Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan when asked whether   individuals carrying weapons jeopardized the safety of the president, Donovan said, "Of course not."

The individuals would never have gotten in close proximity to the president, regardless of any state laws on openly carrying weapons, he said. A venue is considered a federal site when the Secret Service is protecting the president and weapons are not allowed on a federal site, he added."...""

I bet Bobby Kennedy would have appreciated the irony of that comment.

Don T.

---

28 Apr 10 - 09:19 PM (#2896351)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: The Fooles Troupe

""Camped out" must be a southern term"

Common Aussie term too.

---

28 Apr 10 - 09:35 PM (#2896358)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Alice

"Camped out" means the same in the western states, too. Not just a southern term.

---

28 Apr 10 - 09:41 PM (#2896363)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, well, well...

Seems that cmaping out doesn't have to involve camping equipement afterall???

So there ya' have it, Sawz... As fir yer latest attempt at playin' fact-checker-from-hell... Sorry, pal, but thinks you got an F...

But keep anaylizing everything I say and how I say it... Shoot, too bad Miss Gardner ain't around... She was the English-teacher-from-hell... Ya'll would hit off real well... Sho nuff would...

(Hey, Boberdz... How do you know that Ms. Gardener ain't around??? Maybe she is and like a 100 years old and maybe she visits this joint and maybe, jusy maybe, she is Sawz???)

Nah... I mean, she'd be more like 105 and that's a tad on the old side fir this joint... Or any joint, fir that matter...

B~

---

21 May 10 - 07:15 PM (#2911647)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

refresh

---

21 May 10 - 08:06 PM (#2911686)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Ebbie

Bruce, refreshing every thread that you think kind of corroborates your contention that we are equating the Tea Party with the KKK does not give credence to your opinion. If you'll notice, people spoke up in opposition to the notion. The straws you are grasping will not sustain you.

---

21 May 10 - 09:37 PM (#2911736)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, lets just lay out the facts... The Tea Party candidate who just won the Republican primary in Kentucy believes that business owners, such as Woolworths back a long time ago, have the right to deny service to anyone they don't ahppen to like for whatever reason??? Hmmmmmm??? For black folks who remember growing up in Jim Crow America the fact that there are that many Americans out there still who harbor these beliefs has to be terrifying...

Hey, I ain't black but I find it terrifying... I really thought we were a little further down the road... Guess not...

B~

---

21 May 10 - 10:57 PM (#2911761)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Shit, Bobert, you think [i]evidence[/i] matters in a shit-sling like bruce the hirsute prefers?

---

21 May 10 - 11:02 PM (#2911766)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I donno, mouser...

I mean, I like Bruce but I think that he has some serious problems with living in these times... I think he should have been born a couple hundred years ago in the South into a prosperous white family...

But if I had my druthers, I'd have him born a couple hundred years ago into a slave family...

B~

---

22 May 10 - 04:56 AM (#2911847)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T

""LOL.....So Don, try this: Go to your mirror again and say "40 inch dick" and see what happens.""

Be fair Bobert.

BB has one of the finest minds of the twelfth century.

LOL
Don T.

---

22 May 10 - 08:10 AM (#2911899)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

LOL, Don..

---

22 May 10 - 05:16 PM (#2912149)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Hmm. I looked up 12th Century smart guys on Wikipedia and his name didn't show. Could he be posting here under a pseudonym?

---

22 May 10 - 05:49 PM (#2912164)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Listen, mouser... I know this is gonna be hard to digest but bruce is a here-an-now kinda guy... That means that unless he's has some Moses DNA in him that he prolly wasn't around in the 12th century... I know that is hard to believe but it's true... Hey, I know bruce and I don't think he's even 60 years old...

As for his politics??? Don't ask me??? I have a sneaky suspicion that he tunes in regularially to folks like Beck and Limbaugh who, like bruce ain't 8 or 9 hundred years old but have this kind Jim Crow/John Birch mindsets???

What I don't understand is how people can have those values... I mean, yeah, I understand some rich folks who just flay out greedy and don't want to pay taxes... That expalins Rush and Beck but, unless bruce is hiding somethin' (which he might be) I don't get it???

I get it with brain-dead rednecks, BTW... Give them 24/7 NASCAR on cable and Budweiser and they will do anything you wnat them to do...

B~

---

22 May 10 - 06:10 PM (#2912178)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

"The Tea Party candidate who just won the Republican primary in Kentucy believes that business owners, such as Woolworths back a long time ago, have the right to deny service to anyone they don't ahppen to like for whatever reason???"    ~   B-pert

With support from the Tea Party folks, candidate Rand Paul won the Kentiucky GOP primary.

He is a novice in politics and seems to say exactly what he is thinking.

Some members of the public like that, but it will lead to him being roasted alive by professional politicians and their enablers in the professional news media.

What Rand Paul said, in response to what was probably a trap, was that the 1964 Civil Rights act was probably unconstitutional, although he fully supports the goals.

That is a libertarian position and goes with other libertarian views that drugs, alcohol, homosexuality, nudism, and a host of other issues are personal choices and not the job of the federal government to regulate.

Clubs that say "Blacks only" and Mexican restaurants that don't serve Gringos would be against the wishes of most Americans but not illegal under strict Constitutional interpretation. Mr. Paul's statement that business owners have the right to refuse service to people they don't like is probable correct according to the Constitution.

Perhaps we need a few free-thinkers in Congress to get some open debate back in the process.

---

22 May 10 - 06:57 PM (#2912221)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Listen, mouser... I know this is gonna be hard to digest but bruce is a here-an-now kinda guy... That means that unless he's has some Moses DNA in him that he prolly wasn't around in the 12th century... I know that is hard to believe but it's true... Hey, I know bruce and I don't think he's even 60 years old...

No shit, Sherlock. Your irony meter broken?

---

22 May 10 - 07:52 PM (#2912247)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, mouse, I got it... Jus' funnin' a little with Bruce, Rush and Glen...

Now as fir you, Bill... I mean, you go and put me in the blender with bruce on another thread fir having the audacity to suggest that equating the Tea Party to the Kaln is equal to equatin' Obama to Hitler...

No, these repubs need to be called on their positions... Yeah, it's easy to say "Oabam is a socialist" or "We wnat our country back" but Paul was called on a ***position*** and he stepped up as if, "Hey, I'm just being truthfull so that makes me a good guy"... No. Mr. Paul, you are not a good guy... Good guys don't advocate seperation of the races... That is called racism, Sir!!!

That's the beef I have here with this thread and others like it... Seems that the left is being asked to quiet down... Seems too many folks willing to buy into the "BIG LIE* that both sides are out of order and need to calm down... No!!! One side, and ****only**** one side is out of order... The right thinks that they can use domestic terrorism to push their narrow agenda on everyone else... And since the assasination in the 60's they have purdy much had their way... I mean, they ever get away with strappin' on a gun and carring a sign that advocates taking a life at an Obama rally??? If the left did that they would be shot right there... But the right get away with it and the guy become a folk hero???

We has some very distorted views of what is really going on here... The right is out of control and now we hear on the left that we've been equally guilty??? I mean, that is as wrong as wrong can be... The left ain't out here threatenin' violence... There weren't no "Hang hims" about McCain during Obama's rallies... The left hasn't taken out Rush and Glen... The left hasn't taken out Strom and Dick Armey...

No, I ain't buyin' this crap for one minute...

The Republican Party needs to denounce violence in the sttongest terms... That means no Rep. Wilson trying to shout down the presdient in a speech before Congress... It means telling folks that it ain't okay to bring guns to Obama rallies... It means that it ain't okay to kill doctors... It means what it means!!! No more terrorism from their goons... No more lathering up their goons...

Ya'll want to talk policy then let's get it on... But no more terrorism...

And fir those of us on the left, no more apologies... We ain't doin' nuthin' wrong and we shoul;dn't have to cowtie to buying into the idea that there bad stuff happenin' on both sides... That is the ****BIBASS LIE**** of the century!!!

B~

---

13 Jul 10 - 10:45 AM (#2944352)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Is the Black Panther Party a Terrorist Organization??

Minister King Samir Malik Zulu Shabazz:

"You want freedom? You're gonna have to kill some crackers! You're gonna have to kill some of their babies!"

"I hate white people, all of them! Every last iota of a cracker, I hate 'em,"

"Through South Street with white, dirty, cracker whore [expletive] on our arms. And we call ourselves black men with African garb on."

"What the hell is wrong with you black man? ...with a WHITE GIRL on your damn arm!"!

"You want freedom? You're gonna have to kill some crackers! You're gonna have to kill some of their babies!"

"I'm about the total destruction of white people."

"I hate white people."

"The only thing the cracker understands is violence."

"The only thing the cracker understands is gunpowder. You got to take violence to violence."

---

13 Jul 10 - 03:31 PM (#2944477)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

That stuff ain't mainstream, Sawz.... Might of fact, I have never heard any of that stuff... It ain't in the newspapers... It ain't on TV... It ain't like a "movement"... Sounds like one ol' 60's radical doing a rant... Lotta difference between on guy on the street corner rantin' and millions of folks thinkin' that somehow someone took their country away from them and they are now mad enough to think about "2nd Ammendment" solutions... That *is* a movement... Not burned out 60s crack head ranting...

The Black Panther Party ain't been squat since the early 70's... It was crushed by the same folks who would kill me if I showed up at a Bush rally with a "Tree of Liberty" sign and a gun: the cops!!!

They did it in Chicago... They di it in Oakland and Frank Rizzo's boys sho nuff did it in Philly... Crushed the Black Panthers like they were pesky bugs... Shot 'um dead in the bedrooms... Paraded them thru the streets nude...

No, once again you have put forth another patented oranges/apples arguement...

B~

---

13 Jul 10 - 03:56 PM (#2944491)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

But Eric Holder is mainstream, and look how dangerous he is.

---

13 Jul 10 - 04:31 PM (#2944507)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

Actually, the ugly side of the Black Panthers was clear to the publisher of Ramparts Magazine by the early 1970s...

                                                                               whole article here

"...I suggested a solution. Betty Van Patter, who was already doing the books for the Learning Center, might be of help in handling the general accounts. This was to be my last act of assistance to the Party. The crises of the fall had piled on one another in such swift succession, that I was unable to assess the toll they were taking. But in November, an event occurred that pushed me over the edge.

There had been a second teen dance, and this time there was a shooting. A Panther named Deacon was dead. His assailant, a black youth of 16, was in the county hospital. When I phoned Elaine to ask what had happened, she exploded in the kind of violent outpouring I had become used to by then, blaming the disaster on "the police and the CIA." This stock paranoia was really all I needed to hear. (Years later, I learned from other Panthers that the shooting had been over drugs, which the Party was dealing from the school.)

When I walked into the school auditorium where Deacon lay in state (there is really no other term for the scene in front of me), I suddenly saw the real Party to which I had closed my eyes to for so long. Of course, the children were there, as were their parents and teachers, but dominating them and everything else physically and symbolically was the honor guard of Panther soldiers in black berets, shotguns alarmingly on display. And, added to this spectacle, mingling with the mourners, there were the unmistakable gangster types, whose presence had suddenly become apparent to me after Elaine took over the Party: 'Big Bob,' Perkins, Aaron, Ricardo, Larry. They were fitted in shades and Bogarts and pinstripe suits, as though waiting for action on the set of a B crime movie. In their menacing faces there was no reflection of political complexity such as Huey was so adept at projecting, or of the benevolent community efforts like the breakfast for children programs that the Center provided.

Underneath all the political rhetoric and social uplift, I suddenly realized was the stark reality of the gang. I remember a voice silently beating my head, as I sat there during the service, tears streaming down my face: "What are you doing here, David?" it screamed at me. It was my turn to flee.

Betty did not attend the funeral, and if she had would not have been able to see what I saw. Moreover, she and I had never had the kind of relationship that inspired confidences between us. As my employee, she never really approved of the way Peter and I ran Ramparts. For whatever reasons — perhaps a streak of feminist militancy — she didn't trust me.

Just as a precaution, I had warned Betty even before Deacon's funeral not to get involved in any part of the Party or its functioning that she didn't feel comfortable with. But Betty kept her own counsel. In one of our few phone conversations, I mentioned the shooting at the dance. She did not take my remark further.

Later it became obvious that I hadn't really known Betty. I had counted to some extent on her middle class scruples to keep her from any danger zones she encountered in Panther territory. But this too was an illusion. She had passions that prompted her to want a deeper involvement in what she also perceived as their struggle against oppression.

There was another reason I did not express my growing fears to Betty. The more fear I had the more I realized that it would not be okay for me to voice such criticism, having been so close to the operation. To badmouth the Party would be tantamount to treason. I had a wife and four children, who lived in neighboring Berkeley, and I would not be able to protect them or myself from Elaine's wrath.

There were other considerations in my silence, too. What I had seen at the funeral, what I knew from hearsay and from the press were only blips on a radar screen that was highly personal, dependent on my own experience to read. I had begun to know the Panther reality, at least enough to have a healthy fear of Elaine. But how could I convey this knowledge to someone who had not been privy to the same things I had? How could I do it in such a way that they would believe me and not endanger me? Before fleeing, my Panther friends had tried to warn me about Huey through similar signs, and I had failed to understand. My ignorance was dangerous to them and to myself. Finally, only the police had ever accused the Panthers of actual crimes. Everyone I knew and respected on the left — and beyond the left — regarded the police allegations against the Panthers as malicious libels by a racist power structure bent on holding down and eliminating militant black leadership. It was one of the most powerful liberal myths of the times.1

One Friday night, a month or so after Deacon's funeral, a black man walked into the Berkeley Square, a neighborhood bar that Betty frequented, and handed her a note. Betty, who seemed to know the messenger, read the note and left shortly afterwards. She was never seen alive again..."

---

13 Jul 10 - 05:14 PM (#2944532)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Ref

The New Black Panther Party has nothing to do with that of the sixties. By the way, it has now been revealed that the decision to drop the investigation against these dumbasses was made well before the Obama administration took office.

Most of the "scandals" of the Obama administration (ie, NBPP, ACORN, etc) are just right wing fictions that the MSM is too damned lazy to research and debunk.

---

13 Jul 10 - 06:04 PM (#2944557)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

the ugly side of the Black Panthers was clear to the publisher of Ramparts Magazine by the early 1970s...

Wake up, asshole- the 1970's was 40 years ago.

---

13 Jul 10 - 06:13 PM (#2944562)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, Greg F, I find it incredulous that anyone would use the Black Panthers as an argument that the "left" is as guilty as the "right" in assholish behavior... Ain't so but the Repub will throw that dung at the wall anyway hopin', like the rest of their lies, that it will stick...

Kinda surprised that no one, other than me, has brought up Frank "The Shank" Rizzo... He was a real piece of work...

B~

---

14 Jul 10 - 03:09 AM (#2944696)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

Wake up guys, do you still think that a fair society will evolve politically from the mess we see at the moment?

In the UK, the National Health Service is being effectively privatised and handed over to multi national corporations, other attacks on the standard of living of the very poorest are in the pipeline, via VAT rises and stealth taxes.

All because Capitalism fucked up and the result gives them the excuse to futher tighten the screw.

At least Sarah and her party are talking about radical solutions, while the left whistles into the wind.

Regardless of Obama's rhetoric, "change" will never ge presented to us by any politician, and certainly not by a man groomed by the system, like Mr Obama.
"Change" has to be fought for, the capitalists would call that fight terrorism, but to fight at all we need to be united.

There is something in Mrs Palin and the movement which supports her, which echos all that is great about the US. Dont waste your only chance.

---

14 Jul 10 - 03:51 AM (#2944708)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

Regardless of what some here may think, political orientation is no more genetic than sexual orientation.......Mrs Palin will be what the US wants her to be.....a catalyst for "change".

And most importantly, a strong gutsy woman!

---

14 Jul 10 - 10:02 AM (#2944851)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Right, Ake... Let's just put that mental midget of a strong gutsy woman in charge... Great thinkin' on yer part... That oughtta be 'nuff to end everyone's misery...

BTW, we're gonna respectfully have to ask ya' fir a little pee sample, por favor... Here's the cup... You know the drill... No, not "drill, baby, drill" drill... The other drill... No be a good Ake and just pee in the cup, will ya'???

B;~)

---

14 Jul 10 - 10:04 AM (#2944854)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Ebbie

Why am I not surprised!

---

14 Jul 10 - 10:12 AM (#2944861)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Now it seems like the NAACP has become a terrorist organization.

---

14 Jul 10 - 11:36 AM (#2944907)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

Ah Bob my ole friend.....I like your sense of humour.

But with Mrs Palin as Pres it would be possible at last to break the stranglehold of the "one party system" and free the American people, something which will never happen through the existing political channels. Us lefties may find ourselves in an uncomfortable possition for a few years.....but change will come.

Seems to me, Sarah is saying the kind of things which will enable her to strike for power.
Once there she will mould herself,as a populist, to what the majority want her to be.....thats where the American people come in, do they want to gamble on their last chance for meaningful change, or are they content to piss and whine?

I have faith in America....god knows why, but I think they are naive enough still to believe they can defeat the forces of darkness!

We in the UK, by contrast,are so cynical and fucked up, as to be beyond helping ourselves.

---

14 Jul 10 - 11:39 AM (#2944913)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

Ebbie baby, what have you found to be not surprised about, today? :0)

---

14 Jul 10 - 11:56 AM (#2944927)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Rigs: "Now it seems like the NAACP has become a terrorist organization."

Jeez! The way things are going, even Mudcatters will be thought to be a 'Terrorist organization'.....best to stick with music!

Hey, Akenaton, nice to see you on, again!..Been sorta' busy working in the studio, and doing a few gigs!...(or for the elitists, 'gigues').

Regards,

GfS

---

14 Jul 10 - 01:36 PM (#2944971)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

Hi Sanity.....Always nice to see you....wish I could hear some of your work. Knowing you, its bound to be interesting! :0)

---

14 Jul 10 - 04:02 PM (#2945083)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

The idea of Sarah Palin as President gives me (and most people I know) cold chills! And puts us to seriously contemplating emigration if it should actually happen.

She is an arch-conservative, is a member of a Pentacostal church (and is one of those who wants to "restore" America as a "Christian nation"—despite the First Amendment), is vigorously opposed to any kind of gun control, wants to throw the Alaska wilderness (including national parks) open to unrestricted oil drilling, opposes any and all environmental regulations, and enjoys the sport of shooting wolves from a low-flying plane (without wolves, Alaska would be ass-deep in caribou, among other things much less innocuous), and she has proven her general failure to grasp reality by opposing any kind of sex education in schools other than counseling kids to abstain—a policy which, as we have seen, worked very well with her daughter, Bristol!

The woman is a political catastrophe and a mental pretzel!

But then, if your idea is that the United States needs to hit rock-bottom before people will wake up and start thinking intelligently, then that would be one route to go.

Don Firth

---

14 Jul 10 - 04:28 PM (#2945100)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

Real change has always come through emotional commitment, bravery and selfless stupidity, rather than "intelligent thought" Don.
Most people are incapable of "intelligent thought"....there is a big wide world out there, Mudcat does not represent that world.

If we were capable of "intelligent thought" would we allow ourselfs to be serially fucked by the corporations and political factions who rule us?........for example, the "financial crisis" and the kicking we are about to receive because of it?

---

14 Jul 10 - 04:44 PM (#2945109)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

and a whole series of wars, in which mainly the children of the poor were butchered to "save" a parasitical system.

If we had been "thinking intelligently" we would have kept those children safe at home.

---

14 Jul 10 - 04:47 PM (#2945112)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

"...emotional commitment, bravery and selfless stupdity..."... Hmmmmm??? Same ingrediaents that has brought mankind most every war that has ever been started... Nevermind...

Ahhhh, as for our terribly messed up corporatology... The way they got there is having the money to buy the government... Didn't take mush more than that and thden they let the government do their dirty work fir them...

B~

---

14 Jul 10 - 05:03 PM (#2945116)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

Yes thats what I mean Bobert.....these emotions can be used in the interests of our masters...always have been.

This time lets use them in our own interests!

---

14 Jul 10 - 05:05 PM (#2945119)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Righto, Ake and...

...300!!!

---

14 Jul 10 - 06:06 PM (#2945164)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

What you say is pretty true, Ake, but should Palin get in as President, the expression "seriously fucked" would take on a whole new dimension heretofore undreamed of.

But most people are capable of intelligent thought, although sometimes you have to push them to some pretty wild extremes to get them to dust it off and use it. Now, Sarah would do that for a lot of relatively comatose people. Including a lot of her supporters!! ("EEK!! What was I thinking--if at all!???")

But by then, the country would be in a shambles and the corporations would have far more of a strangle-hold than they do now, and that would be going some!! The Constitution would, in effect, have been run through the shredder!

No. Not a good way to go.

Don Firth

P. S. If Sarah were the first woman President of the United States, I can guarantee you that it would set women's rights back a good two centuries and it would be one helluva long time before any other woman, no matter how brilliant, well qualified, and deserving she might be, would be elected.

---

14 Jul 10 - 07:52 PM (#2945220)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, Don, that's about the way I see it, too...

Sarah might be centerfold material but she ain't White House material...

But back to this "intellegent thought" stuff... It's hard to ascertain how much "intellegent thought" is out there in the masses because they have been fed such a full diet of misinformation by the right that I'm sure that lots of them think they are being intellegent but without the proper knowledge base it's being wasted...

Like they say, "garbage in, garbage out"... Don't blame the middle man...

B~

---

14 Jul 10 - 09:21 PM (#2945257)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

...most people are capable of intelligent thought...

Not so's you'd notice. What evidence can you cite for this assertion?

---

14 Jul 10 - 09:31 PM (#2945260)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Riginslinger

Ronald Reagan's speech writer was able to do it.

---

14 Jul 10 - 10:42 PM (#2945286)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Ronnie wasn't...

---

15 Jul 10 - 01:25 AM (#2945312)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Ebbie

I've been reading some of the Comments following political news stories and if most of the writers reflect our people as a whole, there is, frankly, no hope for us. Peasantry, in its day, created better minds. At least, that is how I'm thinking these days.

---

15 Jul 10 - 03:19 AM (#2945342)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Out here, in Sanity-Land, methinks that all this worry about Sarah Palin, being the next President, comes from those who think that Obama must have REALLY fucked up, to create that kind of backlash!...................but then, ........he sure has!

GfS

---

15 Jul 10 - 08:24 AM (#2945486)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Like I've said before about Sarah... Centerfold material and not much else... Oh, except she is very entertaining...

B~

---

16 Jul 10 - 12:46 AM (#2945953)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

If you can't come up with a better centerfold doing a google images search, it's time to give up sex and become a monk on a desert island somewhere.

---

16 Jul 10 - 08:37 PM (#2946479)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Now wait a minute, mouser... I didn't say she was the hottest ol' gal on the planet... All I siad is that she would make better centerfold material than presidential material... Which, BTW, might not be saying that she's not hot at all... But, fir the record, she's purdy hot fir her age...

B~

---

16 Jul 10 - 09:25 PM (#2946495)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Reminds me of a friend of mine. He saw this woman in a restaurant, sitting in a booth with a friend. Really good looking. Verging on gorgeous. In fact, she was beautiful! Hot!!

He sat there adoring her.

"Then," he said, "she opened her mouth. . . ."

Don Firth

---

17 Jul 10 - 08:01 PM (#2946925)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Riginslinger

Bad breath and black teeth are really hard to deal with!

---

17 Jul 10 - 08:36 PM (#2946935)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

BTW, seems like the Republican Party is having this little discussion about whether it's best to just do the Tea Party thing which is to criticize everything that the Dems are doin' or stepping out front with their own ideas...

Seems like the Tea Party strategy is winnin' out so don't look for much more that "we want out country back" bullshit between here and November...

Meanwhile, grandma was beatin' off the Indians...

B;~)

---

17 Jul 10 - 10:58 PM (#2946974)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

He couldn't smell her breath from where he sat and her teeth looked okay.

But he could hear what she was saying and she managed to reveal in only a few sentences that she had been born without a brain.

Don Firth

P. S. Sometimes, I guess, you have to draw a picture. . . .

---

18 Jul 10 - 08:18 AM (#2947069)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Riginslinger

She must have been a Democrat, I suppose!

---

18 Jul 10 - 04:20 PM (#2947244)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

No, she was an arch-conservative Democrat-hater wearing an "America for Americans Only" button, which our hero hadn't noticed at first.

Don Firth

---

19 Jul 10 - 07:25 AM (#2947513)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Riginslinger

Doesn't sound like your friend is very inclusive.

---

19 Jul 10 - 02:30 PM (#2947783)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Didn't know what thread to post this on....so I guess this will do...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html

GfS

---

19 Jul 10 - 02:33 PM (#2947785)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

soory, my last post, forgot the 'blue clicky'

GfS

---

19 Jul 10 - 03:58 PM (#2947839)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Not inclusive, Rig? Well, I dunno. Like any normal male, he responded in the usual manner to a physically attractive young woman (I believe Nature programs us that way). But when one finds that that physically attractive woman has all the intelligence and personality of the common garden slug, it tends to replace one's ardor with a certain measure of revulsion.

He does have a thing about really stupid people. Especially if their stupidity is voluntary.

But my friend has no particular prejudices against Hispanics or other immigrants taking menial or hard-labor jobs that no one else wants to "lower themselves" to do, no matter how essential these jobs are to our society.

Yeah. He's a pretty inclusive guy. Certainly compared to some.

Don Firth

---

19 Jul 10 - 05:36 PM (#2947885)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Would he take a non-essential job away from an immigrant?

---

19 Jul 10 - 08:35 PM (#2947975)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Well, he was an artist. Some people might consider that "non-essential." I don't, but some might.

Would you risk your health and well-being by braving a cloud of pesticides while spend dawn to dusk seven days a week harvesting apples, grapes, asparagus, et al, while getting paid something like two-bits for every bushel basket you can fill?

Do you eat, apples, grapes, asparagus?

Who will harvest this stuff if Hispanic immigrants either won't do it or are not allowed to do it? Nobody I know.

Swabbing out toilets in public rest rooms for minimum wage? Sometimes way less than minimum wage?

Would you?

Don Firth

---

19 Jul 10 - 09:04 PM (#2947991)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Riginslinger

"Would you risk your health and well-being by braving a cloud of pesticides while spend dawn to dusk seven days a week harvesting apples, grapes, asparagus, et al, while getting paid something like two-bits for every bushel basket you can fill?"


                  No reason to, we have machines to do that. The problem is, the illegals work so cheap it doesn't pay to run the machines. Pay ten-cents a pound more for tomatoes, and save millions in property taxes going to educate non-English speaking students.

---

19 Jul 10 - 11:15 PM (#2948040)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Machines can't harvest strawberries. And many other crops.

---

20 Jul 10 - 07:59 AM (#2948199)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, there are limits to what fruits and veggies can be harvested with machines... Most of what we see in the produce sections are things that machines cannot harvest...

Farmer Bobert

---

20 Jul 10 - 10:28 AM (#2948291)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Well, machines used to harvest grapes, but since the wages for farm labor went so low, the harverters have been parked and many of the manufacterers have gone out of business.

---

20 Jul 10 - 12:31 PM (#2948374)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

First of all, stop trying to define what OTHER people are willing to do for work! A man who is providing for his family might do just about anything. The natural citizens of any country should be able to choose that, and not have it 'decided' for them, by the political lunatics trying to further an already stupid agenda!!

Fact: Borders are borders...and borders are borders for a reason. Why not wander into your neighbors house and do or take what you want??...and before you get all dishonestly 'indignant', ANSWER the question!

You earned what you earned for your house...what entitles anyone else to just go help themselves???

This argument is at best, blatantly dishonest, and another bunch of bullshit, trying to masquerade, as 'progressively hip', and pro humanitarian. This argument amounts to nothing more than lame excuses, that end up weakening our country's security and economy! There is nothing wrong or immoral with immigrants, doing that work, LEGALLY, and a government enforcing its laws and borders.

This crap has been going on under both party's administrations...the biggest problem is some of you lemmings never asked 'WHY'!...but rather just parrot some talking points, of morons of questionable motives!

Hey man, duhhh, just deluge 14-15 million schleps, into anywhere, without a fucking ounce of accountability as to the IMPACT that brings on an infrastructure, economy, or well being of EVERYONE affected, and then try to come off as a 'humanitarian good guy'???
In fact, you're a short sighted ASS

GfS!

---

20 Jul 10 - 02:25 PM (#2948458)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: KB in Iowa

Meanwhile back at the Ranch...

Blue Clicky

Iowa billboard linking Obama, Hitler removed

An Iowa tea party group on Wednesday replaced a billboard comparing President Barack Obama to Adolf Hitler and Vladimir Lenin, calling the sign a bad decision that reflected poorly on the organization.

Workers papered over the sign in downtown Mason City at the request of the North Iowa Tea Party.

"We got it covered up first thing this morning," said Kent Beatty, the general manager of the company that owns the billboard.

The roughly 200-member tea party group had the original sign put up last week. It showed photographs of Obama, Nazi leader Hitler and communist leader Lenin beneath the labels "Democrat Socialism," "National Socialism," and "Marxist Socialism."

After the billboard drew sharp criticism by other state and national tea party leaders, members of the local group sought the change.

North Iowa Tea Party co-founder Bob Johnson said he and other leaders agreed with critics that the image of Obama between Hitler and Lenin was offensive. He said the images overwhelmed the intended message of anti-socialism.

"They are absolutely right in their criticism because the image of Hitler just totally wiped everything else and it misrepresents the tea party movement," Johnson said. "They were right from the standpoint that the image was not a positive reflection on the tea people."

Johnson said Hitler images are usually not allowed at North Iowa Tea Party gatherings.

Removal of the sign was welcomed by the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants, a New York-based group.

The North Iowa Tea Party "acted properly in removing the grotesquely offensive sign which should never have been put up in the first place. Had they not acted to remove it they would have severely damaged the credibility of legitimate political causes they espouse," the group said in a statement. "We ask that political groups do not trivialize our suffering in the future by making false analogies with Hitler's horrendous crimes."

For now, the sign has been plastered over with one urging people to notify officials before digging.

---

20 Jul 10 - 03:56 PM (#2948519)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Because if they dig too deep they might find out the truth about Democrats?

---

20 Jul 10 - 04:31 PM (#2948541)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: KB in Iowa

Interesting take Rig. Care to comment on the actual subject of my post?

---

21 Jul 10 - 07:51 AM (#2948912)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Riginslinger

Sure, the were making the most of the word "Socialist."
National Socialist, and etc. The have Obama pegged as a socialist, so why not compare him to socialists of the past.

             I don't know why Americans pay so much attention to Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants. It was something that happened in Europe.

---

21 Jul 10 - 08:30 AM (#2948942)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Why not?

Because the very last thing Pres. Obama is, is a socialist.

Just more lies, stupidity, ignorance and bullshit: the Four Horsemen of the TeaBagger Apocalypse.

They also need to review the political philisophies of Adolf & Vladimir-
the "socialist" label is so broad as to be meaningless applied to those two.

---

21 Jul 10 - 08:36 AM (#2948946)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,TIA

Bingo Greg F.
The Tea Bag morons (and Faux News, Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc.) are reacting to a word with no understanding of it at all.
Perhaps they should mount a campaign comparing National Car Rental to the Nazis (National Socialist Party).
This would make every bit as much sense.

Perhaps they should also compare National Velvet to The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf.

---

21 Jul 10 - 08:44 AM (#2948954)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Don't give thewm any new ideas, TIA... I mean, these people are insanly out of touch with any reality and I really don't think they see and BIGASS LIE as *too big* to tell...

I blame the FCC for most of this... When they decided that the public air waves weren't realy "public" and sold them off to the highest bidder that allowed corporations with agendas to buy them up and put out false information in the name of "news"... Now the toothpaste is out of the tube and we ain't gonna ever get it back in and the FOX/corportist/complex has succeeded in brainwashing enough people who are willing to do the "brownshirting" for Fox and its right winged corporte partners...

B~

---

21 Jul 10 - 10:19 AM (#2949030)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Well, I agree with you, TIA, on their use of the word "socialist." I was just reacting to KB's request.

                The question that needs to be asked, is seems to me, is: How did American's get so dumb?

---

21 Jul 10 - 10:28 AM (#2949040)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Good question, Rigs... But dumb is in... Has been for going on a couple decades now... Daddy Bush started it with his class warfare and Junior picked right up where his dad left off... Now the in thing among the dumbed down is to ridicule as "elitists" anyone who bothered to get an education... Throw in the last 8 years of flat-earth scientists being the voices of the Bush administartion and dumb policies on stem cell research and now even this anti-immigration movement and we're seein' a major brain drain as intellegent and educated people are either not coming here to work or leaving to work... Either way... The dumb are winning... I quess you call it winning???

B~

---

21 Jul 10 - 11:00 AM (#2949059)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Ebbie

Just for the record I need to respond to this: "I don't know why Americans pay so much attention to Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants. It was something that happened in Europe."

Rig, are you really that stupid? I hadn't thought so.

---

21 Jul 10 - 11:04 AM (#2949064)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

The Holocaust that happened in North America happened to the American Indians. Of course, they don't own newspapers and television networks, and...

---

21 Jul 10 - 11:15 AM (#2949077)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: KB in Iowa

Rig, are you saying we should only concern ourselves with things that happen/happened in North America and not about what happens/happened in the rest of the world?

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21 Jul 10 - 11:18 AM (#2949078)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

I'm saying we should pay attention to innocent victims.

---

21 Jul 10 - 11:20 AM (#2949082)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: KB in Iowa

"I'm saying we should pay attention to innocent victims."

" I don't know why Americans pay so much attention to Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants. It was something that happened in Europe."

That is not what this sounds like.

---

21 Jul 10 - 11:44 AM (#2949095)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Unless you can prove that Dick Army and the multi national corporations which he serves are terrorists, you can't prove the tea party is a terrorist organization.


Don, how about a Palin Beck ticket for hot and cold chills?

---

21 Jul 10 - 12:38 PM (#2949131)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

"Johnson said Hitler images are usually not allowed at North Iowa Tea Party gatherings."

Check out the adverb!

Rig: The question that needs to be asked, is seems to me, is: How did American's get so dumb?

Republicans cutting school budgets.

---

21 Jul 10 - 12:44 PM (#2949136)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Ebbie

"The Holocaust that happened in North America happened to the American Indians." Rig

Not even close. I'm beginning to understand you.

---

21 Jul 10 - 01:30 PM (#2949167)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jayto

I disagree with the Tea Party. I am glad to see people get vocal and show their digust in how things are going though. Even if I disagree with alot they are saying and basically think alot of them are just puppets that are too blind or emotional to see they are being used as puppets. As far as terrorists no I don't think that. I know I am not scared at all by any of them. The more I see and hear statements that are threatening or violent and aimed at "Liberals" the more I stand up and proclaim myself a Liberal. They are running off alot of moderates though in my opinion. I have considered myself a moderate for years. I really dont think anyone with a mind in use can just say they are liberal on every subject or conservative on every issue. If someone threatens me or makes me take a stand bc of harsh words or threats I will pick a side. The side I pick will be the opposite of the person trying to scare me to their side. I feel the Tea Baggers (yep) are trying to do this. I support them voicing their opinions and organizing. I don't agree with them but I am happy they are doing it. I will no succomb to threats or fear though. There are a bunch of people out there that feel the same. You are always going to have people that are "over the top" in any movement. I oppose alot of what the Tea Party says and their actions but I support them being able to do it.

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21 Jul 10 - 01:31 PM (#2949170)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Let's see, wiping out the bison and leaving the Indians out on the plains to starve and freeze to death was not even close.

---

21 Jul 10 - 01:52 PM (#2949186)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Ebbie

Nope, Rig. Not even close.

What the States did to the American Indians was invasion and conquest, actions that have happened since time immemorial, actions that all governments and political bodies understand.

What happened in the Holocaust was far, far different.

The Holocaust involved government spotlighting some of their own people: Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, mentally ill people, old people, crippled people, and attempting to eradicate them. It is a betrayal of the worst sort when your own country turns on you.

---

21 Jul 10 - 01:57 PM (#2949188)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

I guess we see these events differently.

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21 Jul 10 - 01:59 PM (#2949190)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: KB in Iowa

"The Holocaust that happened in North America happened to the American Indians." Rig

Not even close. I'm beginning to understand you.

They were not the same of course but I wouldn't say they were not even close. Both involved efforts to intentionally wipe out populations of fellow humans.

---

21 Jul 10 - 02:19 PM (#2949201)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

The head of the United Farm Workers, a very benign fellow, was on Colbert last week. They have a program called "Take Our Jobs" aimed at those who claim illegal immigrants (who do the majority of the crop and farm labor in areas like the Salinas and San Joaquin Valleys and Arizona) are taking American jobs. They offer an open invitation to Americans to come and work in the fields doing the jobs that illegal immigrants do. This should produce a lot of action, ione would think, considering the national unemployment statistics.

So far they have had THREE (count 'em--3!) takers.

Colbert was buffaloed into agreeing to try it, too! His first question: "Is there air conditioning?"


A

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21 Jul 10 - 02:36 PM (#2949215)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

And I'd bet of those 3 that none of them are still in thr fields...

That's one of the things, among many, the Tea Party folks really don't get... Might of fact, I'd love to see a panel of them on TV being asked questions about current events, civics, economics and government to see just what it is that these folks ****do*** get???

B~

---

21 Jul 10 - 02:43 PM (#2949220)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Of course, if they were breaking rocks with twelve pound hammers cheaper than rock could be produced in a rock-crusher, and somebody came along and said, "Take our jobs."

          The response would be, "What's the point?"

---

21 Jul 10 - 02:45 PM (#2949221)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Try this one on for size.

If the tea baggers, with the attitudes they have displayed so far, and the kind of people they support, were time machined back a couple of centuries, would they be trying to protect the Indians from "Manifest Destiny?" Or would they be right in there, shoving them off their ancestral lands and murdering those who were reluctant to leave?

As brutal as some of the Manifest Destiny bunch were, at least they were not running actual murder factories.

Don Firth

P. S. The last time I was up around the Tulalip Indian Reservation (some forty miles north of where I live), I didn't notice that there were, or ever had been, any gas chambers there. And nobody is stopping anyone from leaving the reservation if they want to (in fact, many do). And--there are a couple of casinos on the reservation, however, and it looks to me like they're doing pretty darned well at fleecing the tourists!

---

21 Jul 10 - 02:54 PM (#2949228)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: KB in Iowa

Of course, if they were breaking rocks with twelve pound hammers cheaper than rock could be produced in a rock-crusher, and somebody came along and said, "Take our jobs."

          The response would be, "What's the point?"

But that is not what they were doing.

I believe you have said before that machines could harvest the crops as well as and cheaper than people can but in many cases that is not true. In some cases where it is true it is still not automatically desirable. Tomatoes can be harvested mechanically. In order to do this and still get something on the shelves that people will buy a type of tomato had to be developed that could withstand the rigors. They are notoriously tasteless.

---

21 Jul 10 - 03:02 PM (#2949232)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

Then you have to pay more for an up-scale tomatoe. That's a lot cheaper than supporting a bunch of farm workers in the off-season, and their children, and their aged parents, and, and, and, and...

---

21 Jul 10 - 03:13 PM (#2949242)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Perhaps you can explain something for me, Rig.

Suppose you were looking for a job picking asparagus, apples, lettuce, or whatever. What difference would it really make to you if the jobs you looking for were already filled by either an immigrant farm worker or a machine?

The job has already been filled in either case.

Don Firth

---

21 Jul 10 - 03:19 PM (#2949248)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Now there's that logic thing again, Don. That's just not wanted here.

---

21 Jul 10 - 03:35 PM (#2949259)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Yeah, mouse. Futile.

Bad habit of mine. . . .

Don Firth

---

21 Jul 10 - 04:07 PM (#2949290)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

"Perhaps you can explain something for me, Rig."


       Of course, the job goes to the lowest bidder. The employer doesn't have to take into account such things as school budgets, food stamps, welfare, emergency room expenses, SSI to aged parents, illegaly gained unemployment compensation, and things that become stolen around the community, because the taxpayer picks up the tab for those things.

---

21 Jul 10 - 04:59 PM (#2949334)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Here's a clue for you, Rig.

The employer has to pay taxes too, so he also pays for that litany of sins you complain about.

It's a wash.

Don Firth

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21 Jul 10 - 06:36 PM (#2949392)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

It's not anywhere near a wash, Don. The employer pays a little fraction of what it costs to support all of these illegal people, but he reaps huge benefits. An organic farmer who does all of his own work has to pay for the corporate farmer's greed and gets no benefit from it.

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21 Jul 10 - 06:42 PM (#2949401)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Brad Hatter - Tea Party candidate ;,)

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21 Jul 10 - 09:43 PM (#2949467)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Riginslinger

Actually, that's Had Matter. Had the fate of the country mattered, everyone would have supported the Tea Party.

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21 Jul 10 - 10:10 PM (#2949473)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Nah, Rigs... They wouldn't... There was a time in our country's history were most white folk didn't give a second thought about slavery being immoral and inhuman... The Tea Party is the new 'n improved KKK... No two ways about it...

But yeah, if ya' go back a couple hundred years the Tea Party would fit right in...

---

21 Jul 10 - 10:43 PM (#2949487)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Going on for easily the past thirty years now, Seattle has needed to upgrade its transit system. Three times now, the voters have voted for a monorail system. Not just the iconic Seattle monorail that runs from Westlake Square downtown the mile-and-a-half to the Seattle Center, but one that serves the entire city and nearby communities.

One of the many advantages of a monorail is that existing streets are usable even when the pylons and overhead tracks are being put in. And when it's finished, rather than buses or surface rail taking up space and adding to the street congestion, the monorail trains run overhead, above the street traffic. And monorails cost the taxpayers a mere fraction of what surface rail systems cost, both to install and to maintain, especially if the surface rail system involves any tunnels.

Another advantage of a monorail system is that, if it is eventually found that it doesn't serve commuters all that well, the overhead rails can be remove and the pylons dug up (with minimum impact on the surrounding area while it is being done), and they can be moved and installed somewhere else. If a surface light rail system complete with subways doesn't do what it's supposed to do (as is the case with such a system in Los Angeles), you're just bloody well stuck with it!

And three times now, the will of the voters has been ignored. Currently being built is a combination surface and subway system, involving digging a tunnel under the Lake Washington ship canal and under Capitol Hill. This involves building subway stations along the way. And not more than a half-dozen city blocks from where I live, a two block area, the former site of several businesses that served the neighborhood, has been condemned. There is currently a massive hole there where a subway station, complete with elevators to the tunnel below, is being built. $$$$$$ and more $$$$$$!!

There's one helluva lot of corruption in there somewhere!!

Now, while all this is going on, there is a big dispute over replacing the I-90 waterfront viaduct, which was damaged in the Nisqually earthquake nine-and-a-half years ago. Although it is still being used, it's deemed unsafe. And God help anyone driving on it should another earthquake hit, which in this seismically active zone, is sure to happen sooner or later.

Rebuild the viaduct? Tear it down and replace it with 1) a surface highway along the waterfront? Or 2) a tunnel, which would allow free access to all the shops, restaurants, and other facilities on the shores of Elliot Bay? But this tunnel would require building a new sea wall. And suppose you're driving through the tunnel when that inevitable earthquake occurs and a fractured sea wall allows Elliot Bay to come roaring in?

All of these options, except for the surface highway, which is currently being ignored, involve, to quote the late Carl Sagan, "billions and billions" of taxpayer dollars.

In the meantime Seattle and environs is frequently in the throes of massive traffic gridlock.

Any solution is going to impact the taxpayers severely.

And Seattle is not the only city to experience problems of this nature. Or unique problems of their own that involve massive amounts of funding to solve.

And you will note that I'm not even mentioning the national budget. And the Military. . . .

I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of FDR-style "socialist" regulation being applied to the miscreants, both in the legislatures (both local and national), and in business, who push for the most expensive systems they can peddle so they can line their pockets with taxpayer's money.

This is why, if Emilio and Maria Rodriquez, unregistered immigrants, have to take their eight-year-old daughter, Teresa, to a hospital emergency room because their worried about her sore throat, and Medicare has to pick up the tab because they don't have insurance and they don't make that much (he's a gardener and she cleans houses), I don't really sweat it all that much.

Concentrating one's complaints on little folks like this is a bit like spending one's time and energy swatting at flies while lions and tigers and bears (oh, my!) are raging throughout the land!

Don Firth

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21 Jul 10 - 11:02 PM (#2949497)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Very well put, Don...

There is no sanity left in our policies.... It's all about corruption... Why do you think that Dick Armey's lobby/PR folks organized the Tea Party in the first place??? Well, to the grunts, i.e. the actual Tea Party folks it because Obama is this or that and the elitists are callin' us rednecks...

But when you strip away who is using whom and fir what purpose??? This is 100% about the Repubs getting back to the big money... Nothin' else on the planet... The corporations are in complete control of the money...

So, the Repubs right now would marry up with the SS, to go along with their marryin' up with the radical right Tea Party, if it means gettin back to the big dough...

This is 100% about money right now as far as the Repubs are concerned and let's not forget what money was used to orgainize the Tea Party in the first place...

B~

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21 Jul 10 - 11:44 PM (#2949509)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

As time moves on there are several certainties regarding the tea party;

One is that the extreme right wing swing of their political pendulum will move toward the center.

Second, they will still not attract as many independants as they predict.

Third, while less certain, if the republicans do gain a house majority, the 30 odd members of the tea party Congressional Caucus will become the killer pit bull pet of the Republicans to create things like a House Unamerican Activity Commitee to demonize suspected Socialists while the Republicans will pretend plausible deniability to tea party deeds. In other words the right will not be satisfied with teaching once and for all that America is made of, by and for the rich, they will feel a need to punish the non believers.

Fourth, the tea party will NEVER put their money where thier mouths are regarding no deficit spending. Otherwise the wars would be the first thing cut, and that is of course anathma to the Republican military contractor complex.





When the right gets on a roll they have proven they have no brakes so
"IF" I were to really go out on a predition limb, the birther members of the House of representatives will be given a new veneer of power as they will claim their case is finally proven with new Congressional investigations by a division of HLS instead of the GAO.
They may even insist upon deportation for the Obama family for the rest of their lives. Also if any attack upon the US is successful the right will foam at their mouths for a full lock down police state mode. IT seems an attack on the US is actually on some Republican wish lists.


PS Bobert you really seem to be getting your 'Liberal freak' on. Good for you!

---

22 Jul 10 - 12:53 AM (#2949523)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

You'll NEED to read this one!!!!
   
    It'll effect your check next year, no matter who you are!!!!!
    Oh:   and thomas.gov is a REAL government website!!!!!! too
    YOU MAY WANT TO READ THIS! IT MAY AFFECT YOUR BOTTOM LINE NEGATIVELY NEXT TAX PERIOD.

    I contacted my Congressman about House bill HR 3590, the health care bill. I asked for a summary of changes.
   
    The Aid directed me to go to www.thomas.gov http://www.thomas.gov%3chttp/thomas.gov/; enter HR 3590 in the search box and look for summaries.
   
    Starting in 2011 (next year folks) your W-2 tax form sent by your employer will be increased to show the value of whatever health insurance you are given by the company. It does not matter if that's a private concern or Governmental body of some sort.
    If you're retired? So what; your gross WILL go up by the amount of insurance you get.
   
    You will be required to pay taxes on a large sum of money that you have never seen.
   
    Take your tax form you just finished and see what $15,000 or $20,000 additional gross does to your tax debt. That's what you'll pay next year.
   
    For many it also puts you into a new higher bracket so it's even worse.

    This is how the government is going to buy insurance for 15 % that don't have insurance and it's only part of the tax increases.

    Not believing this, I researched the summaries and here's what I'm reading:
      On page 25 of 29:
      TITLE IX REVENUE PROVISIONS- SUBTITLE A: REVENUE OFFSET      
    PROVISIONS - (sec. 9001, as modified by sec. 10901) Sec.9002. "requires employers to include in the W-2 form of each employee the aggregate cost of applicable employer sponsored group health coverage that is excludable from the employee's gross income."

    Joan Pryde is the senior tax editor for the Kiplinger letters. Go to Kiplinger's and read about 13 tax changes that could affect you. Number 3 is what I just told you about.

    I hope you forward this to every single person in your address book. People have the right to know the truth because an election is coming in November and we need to vote in Conservatives that will repeal this horrid law!

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22 Jul 10 - 01:04 AM (#2949525)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Melissa

snopes, tax increase/health insurance

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22 Jul 10 - 01:42 AM (#2949530)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Ebbie

Melissa, I love you.

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22 Jul 10 - 07:00 AM (#2949655)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

More Tea Party misinformation shot down in flames...

Here one, however, that seems to be true... Ya' ll all know who Michelle Baughman is, I'm sure... Yeah, she is a representastiove from a highly gerrymandered distict and is safe as yesterday doing any whacko thing she wants in terms of getting re-elected so...

...she has orgainized a Tea Party Caucus in the House of Representative!!! No kidding!!! She started with 6 Republican reps and is up to 36 of the 150 or so in the House...

Boy, I'd like to sit in on one of their meetings... Wonder if they hang the Hitler/Obama poster up and chant hang him in their meetings???

B~

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22 Jul 10 - 07:21 AM (#2949664)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Riginslinger

Okay Melissa's post says exactly what Sanity says is says. Is there a mystery here?

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22 Jul 10 - 08:43 AM (#2949723)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,TIA

Andrew Breitbart is certainly a terrorist.
He was completely willing to very publicly destroy a civilian non-combatant in order to make a political statement.
The very definition of a Terrorist.
And Faux News has a history of aiding and abetting this terrorist.

---

22 Jul 10 - 09:09 AM (#2949751)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, TIA... Reckon folks who have never considered what it musta been like to be a black person in the Jim Crow South won't have a clue but...

...yeah, if ya' know that people are out there who are on Boss Hog's payrolll and their only job is to take yer life's work and twist it in a manner that makes you look like a monster then that has to be terribly terrorizin'... I mean, for black folks who are old enogh to rmember Jim Crow I'm sure there is alot of "Oh shit, I thought we were past that" thinkin'... I mean, it's only natural...

Personally, I don't think too many white people get this because they haven't spent enough time with black people to have a knowledge base that let's them fully understand the lingerin' effects of a hundred years of Jim Crow... Hey, I've spent alot of my life working with and around black folks and would like to think I have an understanding but no one really can understand it if they don't have some history livin' in fear...

Maybe this will become a teachable incident but the probklem is that the folks who are doing the terrorizing (like playground bullies) don't see themselves as part of the problem and are the very ones who won't allow themselves to learn anything from it but...

...quite the opposite... They are allready lining up with their usual poor-victim-me rationalizations and alibis... Normal...

Yeah, I think we are way past due to have that discussion on race that Bill Clionton tried to get going back in '96... There are way too many folks out there who are clueless...

B~

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22 Jul 10 - 11:28 AM (#2949849)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Ebbie

Rig, did you read beyond the complaint? Snopes goes on to analyze the charge and delivers a verdict: FALSE.

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22 Jul 10 - 11:41 AM (#2949856)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Don't clutter poor ol' Rigs head with facts, Eb... I'm not too sure what has happened to Rigs but he/she has certainly taken a sharp turn to the right... Way right, too... That means that facts are no longer relevant...

B~

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22 Jul 10 - 12:17 PM (#2949880)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Ebbie

'Right' certainly doesn't mean 'Correct', these days.

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22 Jul 10 - 12:39 PM (#2949895)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I was thinkin' about that just a little while ago, Eb... Seems that the right (Repubs) have become the party of liars... Bush lied to US and got US in a really expensive and immoral war...

Now we have a string of lies being told over and over by the right (Repubs) as they try to lie their way back into power...

The sad thing is that the American people are either too busy or too dumbed down to have a clue that they are being feed a steady diet of mythology from the right (Repubs)...

B~

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22 Jul 10 - 01:18 PM (#2949927)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Riginslinger

"Rig, did you read beyond the complaint?"


            You're right, Ebbie, I missed it the first time, but it looks like what you don't pay in additional taxes you'll make up for in higher deductables, so what is gained?

---

28 Jul 10 - 07:32 PM (#2954122)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Are college professors a terrorist organization?

"Now how do I know that the white people know that we are going to come up with a solution to the problem. I know it because they have retina scans, racial profiling, DNA banks, and they're monitoring our people to try to prevent the ONE person from coming up with the ONE idea. And the one idea is, how we are going to exterminate white people because that in my estimation is the only conclusion I have come to. We have to exterminate white people off the face of the planet to solve the problem. *applause* Now I don't care whether you clap or not but I'm saying to you that we need to solve this problem because they are going to kill us. And I will leave on that. So we just have to set up our own system and stop playing and get very serious and not get diverted from coming up with a solution to the problem and the problem on the planet is white people."

Dr. Kamau Kambon

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28 Jul 10 - 09:14 PM (#2954181)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Boberts defense of kill cracker babies statements:

"No, once again you have put forth another patented oranges/apples arguement."

Ok Bobert keep analyzing everything I say and how I say it.

If Bobert didn't hear it or see it in his left wing media sources, it is totally discredited. It does not matter.

Of course when some militia group buys guns and it hits the liberal media, it is as important to him as the end of the world.

As per your request, my analysis of your petulant rants is racist and bigoted. That's because you want to excuse what a bl**k panther said and condemn a person that legally wears a pistol and carries a sign bearing a Thomas Jefferson quote. Right while the Secret Service is watching him and the cops [whom you claim would kill you for the same thing] are watching him and saying it is legal and he is no threat. Seems to me you want to violate this man's civil rights.

PS: More analysis: You asked what kind of gun it was and I said it was a S&W 9 mm pistol not a rifle. Then you say "what is the difference" and then you go back to repeating it was a rifle. If there is no difference, why do you keep insisting it was a rifle? Facts elude you Bobert. You now know it was a pistol but you keep saying it was a rifle.

Even more analysis: You seem to have written your self a permit to say things that are incorrect while you demand that others stick to the facts. That is unless it is a good buddy that agrees with your "Bobert facts" A member of the Bobert fan club. They get a pass. And even those members have tried to tell you on several occasions that you were wrong but it bounces off of you like bullets off of Superman. Like Tweed that said you have become bent.

Your claim that you "would have been shot if" is a typical attempt to distort the truth and make a fact out of a hypothesis. A theory that "If this had happened then that would have happened and that's a fact" It's an unproven theory, not a fact. Theories have to be tested before it becomes fact.

How many presidents have been shot by people visibly carrying a gun anyway?

---

28 Jul 10 - 09:51 PM (#2954196)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

One question, Sawz... If I had showed up at one of those scripted Bush war rallies with a gun and a sign suggesting that its the patriotic thing to do to off leaders from time to time what do you think would have happened??? Don't hurt yer head on this one...

BTW, you wouldn't know a fact if it bit you on yer right winged posterior...

B~

---

31 Jul 10 - 01:36 PM (#2955792)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Why didn't they shoot the guy at the Obama rally Bobert?

Besides, what does it matter if it didn't happen?

We have the following facts to go on:

A guy showed up at an Obama rally.

He had a gun.

He had a sign.

He did not get shot.

He did not try to shoot Obama.

All of the local and Gov police knew about it.

They all said it was legal and he was within his rights.


You are trying to concoct some sort of Bogey Man scanario and turn it into a fact.

That is a scare tactic. A straw man logical fallacy.

Also it is or will soon be a Negative proof fallacy. That is if I can't prove the guy wouldn't have been shot at a Bush rally [proving a negative] then he would have been shot and that constitutes fact.

I am not your enemy Bobert. I merely show where you are wrong and you get a grudge trying to prove your unprovable points. You also exhibit a grudge for anybody that disagrees with you. Whereupon you start using personal insults as if it proves you are right.

You start threads like this one to deliberately stir up an argument and then you complain about people the arguments.

Certainly you want to know if you are right or wrong. Or are you an Idealist that only knows how things should be rather than the way things are.

You are always wailing about the facts I bring up being minor details and then you accuse others of not knowing the facts.

---

31 Jul 10 - 01:51 PM (#2955796)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

I think, extrapolating from the general tenor of Bush public meetings, with their special "free speech zones" and heavy handed policing actions, that if the situation Bobert suggests had occurred the perpetrator would have had his legal rights severely and rapidly curtailed.

A

---

31 Jul 10 - 01:51 PM (#2955797)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Why wasn't the person holding this sign shot Bobert?

Bobert fact #98745731 Anybody that disagrees with Bobert is automatrically wrong and they are a right winger.

---

31 Jul 10 - 02:25 PM (#2955810)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

PRobably because they were unarmed?


A

---

31 Jul 10 - 05:49 PM (#2955898)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, that's exactly it... The sign holder wasn't armed...

You may poopoo what Amos and I have said would have happened to me at a Bush rally if I had the sign and the gun but, hey, you live in another reality that really cannot possibly comprehend what it is like to watch yer entire leadership and movement wiped out with assasins bullets...

Hey, if Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, John Beohner and Mitch McConell were offed over the next year I think you might have some idea of our reality... And, no, I am not threatening that or even wishing it... But if that happened tghe conservative movement would be set back decades because it would set a fear level in every right winged loonie out there thinking it's okay to be an obnoxious, anti-socail jerk...

B~

---

01 Aug 10 - 11:19 AM (#2956131)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert: Your "reality" is based on what ifs and not based on reality.

"if Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, John Beohner and Mitch McConell were offed over the next year I think you might have some idea of our reality"

You are one step away from hearing voices.

"if that happened tghe conservative movement "

"what if I were to take a Cherokee and fly it into a Tea Party gathering???"

"if I had the sign and the gun but"

"if ya' know that people are out there who are on Boss Hog's payrolll and their only job is to take yer life's work and twist it in a manner that makes you look like a monster then that has to be terribly terrorizin'" That one is really scary.

"If I had showed up at one of those scripted Bush war rallies with a gun and a sign suggesting that its the patriotic thing

"if he's around, can tell ya' what kinda rifle it was... It ceratinly wasn't a pistol... It was some kinda shortened rifle.." Bobert's reality keeps changing a S&W 9 mm pistol into a rifle. And then there was that gold plated M-16 too.

"if all of a sudden liberals started a liberal NRA and armed themselves as well as the righties then I don't think the "redneck superiority complex" (RSC) would hold up too long"

"if it had been a group of very rowdy, heavily armed Black Panther lookin' dudes accross the street from a Bush rally???" This one is particurly unrealistic because Bobert discredits anyone who uses the Black Panthers in a hypothesis. Yep Bobert has given himself special priveledges that he denies to others. Reality at it's finest.

"I find it incredulous that anyone would use the Black Panthers as an argument that the "left" is as guilty as the "right" in assholish behavior" But it is OK for Bobert to use the Black Panters as an argument that "right" is as guilty as the "left" in assholish behavior"

You are welcome to your private reality that is based on what ifs and you own special set of rules, Bobert.

---

01 Aug 10 - 12:34 PM (#2956159)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Methinks, Sawz, if you spent a fraction of your artistic energy in making rational counter-arguments, instead of investing so much homework in making Bobert sound bad, you would be a lot more credible.

For my part I do not think the Tea Party is "terrorist", but I think they try very hard to be loud and intimidating, and I think they are misguided.

Seriously misguided.


A

---

01 Aug 10 - 01:56 PM (#2956199)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

"♫. . . if he only had a brain. . . .♫"

---

01 Aug 10 - 03:07 PM (#2956241)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Wait a minute, Amos... I like what Sawz did... I mean, some of them quotes is purdy danged good...

And ya' gotta admit that it is flattering to know that there's someone out there who prolly has a wall filled with yer piccures and all these quotes... I mean, yer just jealous, Amos, that you don't have yer bery own cyber-stalker...

As fir the Tea Party being a terrorist organization??? I mean, let's not put them up there with Osama but they certainly understand the use of terrorism... I mean terorism cvomes in all shapes and sizes... If yer this nurse who happened to wnat to speak up at a town hall meeting in favor of health care reform only to find the room filled with very pissed off, vulgar and rude people, hey, you prolly were terrorized...

I mean, these tactics are meant to scare.... Hmmmmmm??? So are the Taliban's tactics...

B~

---

01 Aug 10 - 03:41 PM (#2956271)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"making rational counter-arguments"

Like Bobert does?

Like his rational argument about the gold plated M=16 and all kinds of booty?

How about the beater airplane he claims Obama bought?

---

01 Aug 10 - 03:51 PM (#2956277)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Like I say, Sawz, you can make your choice--try and find an intelligent discussion, or get fixated on hating Bobert. Sounds like you made your decision. You and BB should get together and have a few beers and explain to each other how Bobert and Amos made you do it...



A

---

01 Aug 10 - 05:37 PM (#2956328)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Hey Amos:

Bobert is the one that is constantly saying who wants to kill who and who hates who and stiring up the hate.

"buy guns, lots of ammo and learn to shoot straight 'cause these rednecks mean to kill people who ain't like them...
they are out there preachin' violence"

I merely disagree with his logic and you turn that into hate.

When he goes about blabbering about what ifs and calims that constitues facts, that is not a rational argument.

You have told him several times that the tea party is not a terrorist organization but he continues his rant.

Maybe you and him should have a few beers. Or maybe pass a reefer and the Jug around. Maybe you could talk some sense into him. But AI doubt it.

---

01 Aug 10 - 08:06 PM (#2956390)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Hey, Amos... Saws has a point there... How 'bout bringin' a bigass bag of that good California weed to the Getaway..

The other points??? SOS... Who cares??? Saws lives in one of them parellel universes where Jim Crow never lived... Where there was never a civil right struggle... Where Bubba really doesn't mean he is suggesting killin' Obama... You know, some kinda Republican utiopia where if there is anything uncomfortable in yer life all ya got5ta do is make a happy oitcure and then twist, distort and mythologize yer way there and everything will be just fine...

Well, it will for Saws... Won't for the folks who are hurt by the policies that his boys want to put in place but, hey...

B~

---

13 Sep 10 - 12:52 PM (#2985849)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert's boys created Jim Crow. Now they have to twist the truth in an effort to deny it.

Some of 'em even have to take up weed as an escape from reality.

---

13 Sep 10 - 12:58 PM (#2985855)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

My boy is only 25 years old, Sawz... I mean, Jim Crow had been gone a long time when he was born in '85...

B~

---

13 Sep 10 - 01:16 PM (#2985866)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: olddude

Fight nice kids ... don't make me send you to your room or else !!!

---

13 Sep 10 - 04:41 PM (#2986038)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Sawz:

"Bobert's boys created Jim Crow..." is a really off the wall accusation. Which of Bobert's boys do you specifically mean, if specifics are not too big a challenge?


A

---

13 Sep 10 - 06:13 PM (#2986102)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Not to worry, Amos and ol'ster... I gotta a call from the Betty Ford folks and they are gonna 'round Sawz up and get him back on the program... He does have a tendency to fall off the wagon...

And 400...

B~

---

14 Sep 10 - 11:56 PM (#2986983)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Sawz:

"Bobert's boys created Jim Crow..." is a really off the wall accusation. Which of Bobert's boys do you specifically mean, if specifics are not too big a challenge?"

Why didn't you challenge Bobert to specify the boys he was referring to?

He brought up the reference first. You ignore that and mount a personal attack on me. Do you have some sort of pro Bobert anti Sawzaw bias? Aren't you fair and balanced?

Bobert seems to be on a first name basis with the owner of his favorite rehab joint. How many frequent flier miles have you built up Bobert?

---

15 Sep 10 - 12:37 AM (#2986993)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Me? I like Joe Crow! Jose Cuervo!. Si! Margaritas all around and move on to the next thread.

---

15 Sep 10 - 11:05 PM (#2987720)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

Now the Tea Party Terrorists are even threatening Republican officionados with a "bullet to the head"!

DOVER, Del. – A nasty campaign for the GOP U.S. Senate nomination in Delaware got even uglier Monday when state Republican officials disclosed what they characterized as a death threat against their party chairman.

U.S. Rep. Michael Castle, the choice of the GOP establishment in Tuesday's primary, is trying to fend off a possible upset by tea party candidate Christine O'Donnell.

State party spokesman Tom Doheny said Monday that chairman Tom Ross, who supports Castle and has denounced O'Donnell as a liar and a fraud, last week received a vulgarity-laced e-mail.

Doheny declined to provide a copy of the e-mail or divulge the address it came from, but said the writer suggested that Ross and other so-called Republicans in Name Only, or RINOs, deserve "a bullet in the head."

Doheny said Ross took the threat seriously enough to move his family out of their home, and that the Department of Justice is investigating.

Full story here.

Yeah, the terrorist roots of the Tea Party are beginning to show.

---

16 Sep 10 - 08:43 AM (#2987911)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, in the words of Sarah, "Reload"...

Not too much different between the Tealiban and the brownshirts in Germany in the 30s... Can't win one way then threaten the opposition with 2nd ammendment remedies...

Hope the Tealiban is enjoyin' their little run now 'cause it ain't gonna last...

B~

---

16 Sep 10 - 08:57 AM (#2987923)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I hope the Tea Party is at least a wake-up call, for the stupid, and ineffectual, non-representative, career politicians, and their ilk, that have been in office, screwing us around for the past 30-40 years!!! Whether they gather any more, to their roles, has yet to be seen....but the two parties, in their present form, can just go take a hike!!


GfS

---

16 Sep 10 - 01:55 PM (#2988105)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Are Al Goreistas a Terrorist Organization?

MSNBC

Police shot to death a man armed with several bombs who held three hostages Wednesday at the Discovery Communications building. Authorities said the hostages were safe.

At least one device on the man's body went off when he was shot inside the building in suburban Washington, D.C., Montgomery County police Chief Thomas Manger said. Police were trying to determine whether two boxes and two backpacks the gunman had also contained explosives.

Manger said SWAT officers shot the gunman about 4:50 p.m. ET because officials "believed the hostages were in danger." The hostages — two Discovery Communications employees and a security guard — were unhurt after the four-hour standoff.

An NBC News producer who called the building to find out what was going on had a brief telephone conversation with the man when he came on the line unexpectedly. He identified himself as James J. Lee and said, "I have a gun and I have a bomb. ... I have several bombs strapped to my body ready to go off."

Speaking to reporters, Manger would not release the man's identity, but numerous law enforcement authorities gave NBC News the same name James J. Lee. Lee, 43, was a longtime protester at the building who was sentenced to six months of supervised probation for disorderly conduct in March 2008.

Manger said the suspect held the hostages in the lobby area of the first floor. He said police spent several hours negotiating with the armed man after he entered the suburban Washington building about 1 p.m.

The building in the close-in suburb of Washington was safely evacuated, including the Discovery Kids Place day care center, and none of the 1,900 people who work in the building were hurt.

'The planet does not need humans'
Lee appears to have posted environmental and population-control demands online, saying humans are ruining the planet and that Discovery should develop programs to sound the alarm.

"I want Discovery Communications to broadcast on their channels to the world their new program lineup and I want proof they are doing so. I want the new shows started by asking the public for inventive solution ideas to save the planet and the remaining wildlife on it," the alleged manifesto reads, adding:

"Nothing is more important than saving ... the Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels. The humans? The planet does not need humans."
Video: James Lee pitched TV show to Discovery

Court records show that Lee was arrested Feb. 21, 2008, on the sixth day of a protest at the Discovery building. At the time of his conviction in March 2008, he was identified as being from San Diego.

Police were called to the scene when a crowd that had gathered began growing "unruly" as Lee threw thousands of dollars of cash into the air, some of it still in shrink-wrapped packages, police said at the time. (Lee was found not guilty of littering.)

Lee said at the time that he experienced an "awakening" when he watched former Vice President Al Gore's environmental documentary "An Inconvenient Truth."

---

16 Sep 10 - 02:00 PM (#2988107)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bong hits for the demands of a left wing "terrorist"?:

The Discovery Channel MUST broadcast to the world their commitment to save the planet and to do the following IMMEDIATELY:

1. The Discovery Channel and it's affiliate channels MUST have daily television programs at prime time slots based on Daniel Quinn's "My Ishmael" pages 207-212 where solutions to save the planet would be done in the same way as the Industrial Revolution was done, by people building on each other's inventive ideas. Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution. A game show format contest would be in order. Perhaps also forums of leading scientists who understand and agree with the Malthus-Darwin science and the problem of human overpopulation. Do both. Do all until something WORKS and the natural world starts improving and human civilization building STOPS and is reversed! MAKE IT INTERESTING SO PEOPLE WATCH AND APPLY SOLUTIONS!!!!

2. All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. In those programs' places, programs encouraging human sterilization and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it.

3. All programs promoting War and the technology behind those must cease. There is no sense in advertising weapons of mass-destruction anymore. Instead, talk about ways to disassemble civilization and concentrate the message in finding SOLUTIONS to solving global military mechanized conflict. Again, solutions solutions instead of just repeating the same old wars with newer weapons. Also, keep out the fraudulent peace movements. They are liars and fakes and had no real intention of ending the wars. ALL OF THEM ARE FAKE! On one hand, they claim they want the wars to end, on the other, they are demanding the human population increase. World War II had 2 Billion humans and after that war, the people decided that tripling the population would assure peace. WTF??? STUPIDITY! MORE HUMANS EQUALS MORE WAR!

4. Civilization must be exposed for the filth it is. That, and all its disgusting religious-cultural roots and greed. Broadcast this message until the pollution in the planet is reversed and the human population goes down! This is your obligation. If you think it isn't, then get hell off the planet! Breathe Oil! It is the moral obligation of everyone living otherwise what good are they??

5. Immigration: Programs must be developed to find solutions to stopping ALL immigration pollution and the anchor baby filth that follows that. Find solutions to stopping it. Call for people in the world to develop solutions to stop it completely and permanently. Find solutions FOR these countries so they stop sending their breeding populations to the US and the world to seek jobs and therefore breed more unwanted pollution babies. FIND SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO STOP THEIR HUMAN GROWTH AND THE EXPORTATION OF THAT DISGUSTING FILTH! (The first world is feeding the population growth of the Third World and those human families are going to where the food is! They must stop procreating new humans looking for nonexistant jobs!)

6. Find solutions for Global Warming, Automotive pollution, International Trade, factory pollution, and the whole blasted human economy. Find ways so that people don't build more housing pollution which destroys the environment to make way for more human filth! Find solutions so that people stop breeding as well as stopping using Oil in order to REVERSE Global warming and the destruction of the planet!

7. Develop shows that mention the Malthusian sciences about how food production leads to the overpopulation of the Human race. Talk about Evolution. Talk about Malthus and Darwin until it sinks into the stupid people's brains until they get it!!

8. Saving the Planet means saving what's left of the non-human Wildlife by decreasing the Human population. That means stopping the human race from breeding any more disgusting human babies! You're the media, you can reach enough people. It's your resposibility because you reach so many minds!!!

9. Develop shows that will correct and dismantle the dangerous US world economy. Find solutions for their disasterous Ponzi-Casino economy before they take the world to another nuclear war.

10. Stop all shows glorifying human birthing on all your channels and on TLC. Stop Future Weapons shows or replace the dialogue condemning the people behind these developments so that the shows become exposes rather than advertisements of Arms sales and development!

11. You're also going to find solutions for unemployment and housing. All these unemployed people makes me think the US is headed toward more war.

Humans are the most destructive, filthy, pollutive creatures around and are wrecking what's left of the planet with their false morals and breeding culture.

For every human born, ACRES of wildlife forests must be turned into farmland in order to feed that new addition over the course of 60 to 100 YEARS of that new human's lifespan! THIS IS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE FOREST CREATURES!!!! All human procreation and farming must cease!

It is the responsiblity of everyone to preserve the planet they live on by not breeding any more children who will continue their filthy practices. Children represent FUTURE catastrophic pollution whereas their parents are current pollution. NO MORE BABIES! Population growth is a real crisis. Even one child born in the US will use 30 to a thousand times more resources than a Third World child. It's like a couple are having 30 babies even though it's just one! If the US goes in this direction maybe other countries will too!

Also, war must be halted. Not because it's morally wrong, but because of the catastrophic environmental damage modern weapons cause to other creatures. FIND SOLUTIONS JUST LIKE THE BOOK SAYS! Humans are supposed to be inventive. INVENT, DAMN YOU!!

The world needs TV shows that DEVELOP solutions to the problems that humans are causing, not stupify the people into destroying the world. Not encouraging them to breed more environmentally harmful humans.

Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.

The humans? The planet does not need humans.

You MUST KNOW the human population is behind all the pollution and problems in the world, and YET you encourage the exact opposite instead of discouraging human growth and procreation. Surely you MUST ALREADY KNOW this!

I want Discovery Communications to broadcast on their channels to the world their new program lineup and I want proof they are doing so. I want the new shows started by asking the public for inventive solution ideas to save the planet and the remaining wildlife on it.

These are the demands and sayings of Lee.

---

16 Sep 10 - 02:55 PM (#2988160)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

To conflate the droolings of one psycho with the general teachings of Al Gore must take a very bitter, short-tempered miond indeed, Mister Zawl. It is a patent, transparent effort to confuse and heap acrimony on someone who really does not deserve it, using the cheapest of rhetorical machinations. Really, you DO have better things to do with your time. You seem a little desperate to invalidate people any way you can think of. Why is that?

A

---

16 Sep 10 - 04:49 PM (#2988234)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The only one being invalidated here, Amos, is Sawz himself... People that are all that angry should just seek more counseling and/or a change in meds...

---

17 Sep 10 - 12:46 AM (#2988448)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

So from what I gather by the statements of the two senior repositories of knowledge* here on the Mudcat with nothing better to do, is that what the leftwing psycho terrorist did was OK but the person that makes note of it, Me, needs some help.

Well it always easier to attack the person rather than to refute the information, to "invalidate people any way you can think of" especially when you don't have any facts to refute it with.

FYI the leftwing psycho terrorist said he was "awakened" by Al Gore's movie.

*Knowledge consisting of little known "facts" like Regan eliminated Glass Steagal and Obama bought his own airplane.

And of course don't forget the squirrels.

---

17 Sep 10 - 01:05 AM (#2988458)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Personally, Al gore puts me to sleep.

---

17 Sep 10 - 01:13 AM (#2988459)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Come on, let's not be nuts! The guy was an environmental wacko. Isn't that obvious?? ..and, as far as Al Gore is concerned, he, his doctrine, and his film have been proven to be fraudulent!..I don't think there should be much debate about that! To agree with Gore, especially with this other nut ball, was/is just enough to set the wacko behavior off!
So, Amos and Bobert, Don't embarrass yourselves by defending Gore or the whack-job nut-ball...and just because Sawzaw posts the post he did, which happens to be true, to jump his shit for it, is just left-over clinging to fraudulent premises of the past. Get over it!
Jeez!

GfS

---

17 Sep 10 - 08:41 AM (#2988614)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Righto, GfinS... Amos and I should just let the polluters pollute our water and our air because, after all, they are wealthy and wealthy folks can't be or do anythig worng, can they??? And anyone who has the adasity to stand up to the polluters should be villified... And after that we should all just bow down to the polluters and thank them for providing us our meager jobs... I* mean, what good is clean air and water if we don't have jobs makin' Boss Hog's widgets...

BTW, don't worry about the green glow in that pond out back... Our scientists say it's cleaner than clean... Might of fact they say they are thinkin' of bottlin' it up and sellin' it in the health food stores...

B~

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17 Sep 10 - 12:49 PM (#2988760)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

The logic I am pointing out is that if somebody does something horrible and weird it is declared an isolated incident by a psychopath unless they are in anyway associated, ever even walked past a conservative rally. Then It is declared to be a conspiracy carried out by a terrorist organization, every conservative is guilty of terrorism and belongs to the Taliban.

The old double standard rears it's ugly head again. Bobert's propaganda rules.

In giving voice to people who are pissed off seems that one global warming anti pollution nut, hyped up by Al Gore, has now committed a suicide, terrorist, hostage taking attack on a private company because he disagreed with them.

Me thinks that the Taliban are alive and well in the USA

---

17 Sep 10 - 01:10 PM (#2988776)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Amos,

To conflate the droolings of one psycho with the general principles of the Tea Party must take a very bitter, short-tempered mind indeed, Amos. It is a patent, transparent effort to confuse and heap acrimony on someone who really does not deserve it, using the cheapest of rhetorical machinations. Really, you DO have better things to do with your time. You seem a little desperate to invalidate people any way you can think of. Why is that?

---

17 Sep 10 - 01:15 PM (#2988780)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

The New York Times

I asked the election guru Charlie Cook if there were signs that the Tea Party was scaring away the independents. I haven't seen any, he replied. I asked another Hall of Fame pollster, Peter Hart, if there were Republican or independent voters so alarmed by the Tea Party that they might alter their votes. He ran the numbers and found very few potential defectors.

The fact is, as the Tea Party has surged, so has the G.O.P. When this primary season began in early February, voters wanted Democrats to retain control of Congress by 49 percent to 37 percent, according to an Associated Press-Gfk poll. In the ensuing months, Tea Party candidates won shocking victories in states from Florida to Alaska. The most recent A.P./Gfk poll now suggests that Americans want Republicans to take over Congress by 46 percent to 43 percent.

---

17 Sep 10 - 01:48 PM (#2988809)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Ya know, Bruce, many of us mastered the rhetorical device of mindless mimicry, or copying, in pre-school. But by the time we got to fourth grade, we had outgrown it. We also got over the senseless delight in irritating people by using it, because we grew out of the sense of helplessness which made us desperate for anything that would prove we had a point of view.

I don't know why you think it is clever to take someone else's words and twist them around this way, but it is callow and ineffective.


A

---

17 Sep 10 - 02:07 PM (#2988824)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Amos,

If you think MY statement is " callow and ineffective", perhaps YOU might guess what I think of your statement using the same factual basis- ie, that ONE person represents the entire movement.


If you don't like what I say, stop saying the same thing ( from the other side) YOURSELF.

---

17 Sep 10 - 02:23 PM (#2988834)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Huh?? Who did I accuse of representing the whole movement? Check your meds, amigo...


A

---

17 Sep 10 - 03:06 PM (#2988861)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

Anyone who brandishes a weapon at the Tea Party is a terrorist.

Keep your guns at home!

---

17 Sep 10 - 06:29 PM (#2988963)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

In logic it is the informal fallacy of attributing to the whole what may be true to the part. It is a non sequiter: it does not follow.

In the case of the Tea Party, these are the facts: It is not a formal party. To date,as far as I know, there is NO membership requirement. The meetings that have been held have been open to the general public and therefore those who have staged the meetings have NO CONTROL over those who may attend other than societal police control. Since this is a free country and free speech is in effect, virtually any opinion could be expresed in a number of ways at such an event and it would not necessairliy be an accurate reflection of those who staged the event.

I believe Sawz brought up the case of the homocidal/suicidal Gorite to demonstrate the absurdity of attributing to the whole what may be true of the part. That's all.

Regardless of your positions on Global Warming or the Tea Party, such arguments are fallacious and when presented with inflamatory language, well, at best it generates hundreds of posts to a topic that ought not to be. That IS all.

---

17 Sep 10 - 09:09 PM (#2989028)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The bottom line here is that some folks here think it is perfectly okay in their book to villify someone because they don't agree with them... Poor ol' Al Gore ain't no demon... Might of fact, he probably knows more about environmental issues than the entire Mudville population...

Hey, if you take a country to war for bogus reasons you deserve the criticism but to try to make Al Gore into some kinda moronic monster is just way the heck over the line interms of trying to win whatever debating points one is trying to win...

(But, Bobert... You have called the Tea Party folks loonies, terrorists, racists, etc...)

Well, yeah... I have... And I'm sure that alot of them folks have just gotten caught up in Dick Armey's multi-million doallr community organizing affort against Desm and Obama... But when I look at the pictures and read the signs it's hard not revisist tapes of the KKK from my childhood and young adulthood...

I mean, if the Tea Party evdedr wants my respect it has to step to the plate and say, "2nd ammendmant solution" against your polititical opponents are not American... Until then, hey, they are nuthin' but a bunch or renegade, lynch-mob rednecks...

B~

---

18 Sep 10 - 01:54 AM (#2989092)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Might of fact, he probably knows more about environmental issues than the entire Mudville population..."

He probably does...so why is he lying his ass off.....money?????? To be relevant?????

Gore is so full of shit, that those who start defending him, or spouting his crap, are also full of it!...and there ain't no two ways about it!!!

Speaking of which, when the political loonies run out of common sense, and their so-called arguments are found to be full of holes, because there are no FACTS in their rap, they resort to 'name calling', and accusations..instead of an intelligent debate. Gore, and his acknowledged fraudulent 'theories' have been PROVEN to be full of lies, and disinformation. THAT is a FACT!! To hang on, and try to defend his position, then makes you just spouting old, left over, propaganda, that didn't work!!!!
How stupid is THAT??????
Oh!!!..BUT he is a Democrap...so let's all rally behind him, no matter how full of shit he is!!!
Can't wait till his ex-ol' lady, publishes the book ,that reveals what an absolute phony his is!!....and you'll still be in denial!!!!

Sheesh!,
GfS

---

18 Sep 10 - 09:20 AM (#2989188)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Who says he is lieing, GfinS??? You??? The Polluters??? Bush former flat-eart socalled scientists??? FOX??? The Tea Party??? John Birch hisself??? No, Lyndon LaRouche??? Mickey Mouse???

More to being a liar than having folks with different agendas proclamin' you one...

B~

---

18 Sep 10 - 09:59 AM (#2989199)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert, I suggest you read, or somehow get acquainted with the news.

GfS

---

18 Sep 10 - 10:38 AM (#2989225)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

GoS:

Your analysis of Gore could stand a little fleshing out--it seems to be short of particulars and in need of some nuancing.


A

---

18 Sep 10 - 07:10 PM (#2989426)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Alll ya gotta do, Amos, is read whatever wingnut blog that GfinS wants yhou to read and then you too can be part of the growing...

...Al-Gore-is-a-crook consiracy... I'm sure GfinS has plenty of links to them folks who will be more than happy to pass along not only that conspiracy theory but if you order now, you will also recieve the Al-Gore-kidnapped-the-Limburg-baby conspracy "evidence", as well...

But wait... There's more... That's right, if you order now you will not only recieve the Al-Gore-is-a-crook conspiarcy material and the Al-Gore-kidnapped-the-Limburg-baby stuff but also...

... the Al-Gore-devorced-Tipper-to-marry-bin-Laden's-sister conspiracy material ahead of its scheduled Oct. 19th official release date so...

...order now at http;///www.GuestfrominSanity.com and...

...thank you fir yer support...

B;~)

---

18 Sep 10 - 09:28 PM (#2989473)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Innuendos and name calling...hmmm...is that all you got?????

Who put you up to this..the crazed biscuit queen of the north?

Betcha didn't know this!

Hurray for integrity!!!

GfS

---

19 Sep 10 - 08:48 AM (#2989651)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I mean, let's get real here... Many people of Al Gore's age get involved in helping aging parent manage stock portfolios... But there are different levels of management... The fact that Al Gore's mothers portfoloio had stock in Occidental Petrolium should not come as a major surprise... Lotta folks of her generation invested in Occidental because it was considered a safe (conservative) investment... Big deal...

CorpWatch could better use it's time investigating the real petrolium crooks who actively and personally have been involved in wrong doing... I mean, they put the blast on Al Gore as if he was Dick Cheney... There's somethin' dishonest here...

Al Gore helps his mom with some paperwork and gets the bigass Al-is-a-crook charge from CorpWatch and Dick Cheney gets a pass??? I mean, even if CorpWatch did a piece on Cheney it's completely incongruent that CorpWatch would elevate Al Gore to Cheney's "crook level status" for helpin' his mom with her investments...

B~

---

19 Sep 10 - 09:27 AM (#2989665)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp

Why don't we get sensationalist threads like this about the APP? I'll tell you why. Because apes are a whole lot smarter than humans, that's why.

- Chongo

---

19 Sep 10 - 11:24 AM (#2989713)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

When members of the Tea Party bring weapons to political events to try to intimidate
those who don't agree with them, this is a terrorist tactic.

The Tea Partiers will not allow those who disagree with them to speak at their rallies.
They will shout them down as they always do because they think they are the only
ones who are right.

Most of them are over sixty and white. They offer no solutions to the unemployment problems that we have and generally support the meaningless war in Afghanistan
and the absurd occupation of Iraq (which by the way is still occupied by American troops.)

Dick Armey and the Koch brothers support this ragtag bunch of hot heads because it is a political weapon to use against Obama who is vilified by ugly posters and lied about.
They say he is a Muslim and this is a lie. They also say he is Hitler and this is unjust.
The Tea Partiers have no real credibility of representing sensible people in the US and have gotten a lot of publicity because it makes titillating copy in place of real news.

They are very much the same ilk as the Brown Shirts of Nazi Germany, stirring up trouble and raging against the takeover of Liberals which are really non-existent. They have abused the Second Amendment of the Constitution to get their way through intimidation
and bullying tactics. There are very few black people there because they know that the Tea Party is basically a racist reactionary party.

The solution to the disease of the Tea Party is for sensible people to raise their objections which because most Americans have their head in the sand, they are unwilling to do.
John Stewart offers a legitimate appeal to "taking it down a notch" and allowing for sanity in a crazy period of American history.

---

19 Sep 10 - 11:48 AM (#2989728)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Exactly, Srings...

Think back on the so-called "town meetings last summer... Traditionally, the town meeting is one of the most democratic institutions in the country... Yet Dick Armey and Co. turned them into their own political theater by training these hotheads to turn what was supposed to be democratic meeting into their own little thuggish bullying ring...

I mean, let's get real here... The Tealiban slobs who went to these meetings went with one intent and that was not to particiapte in democracy but to disrupt it... Hey, it's one thing to organize a bunch of like minded jerks and go out and have a ralley or demonstration... It's quite another to attend an event where people have come to participate, learn a little, maybe get up and ask questions or make comments just to prevent these people from ***their*** 1sy ammendment rights...

Seems that the Tealiban is only interested in constitutional rights when it comes to ***their*** rights but don't give a flying fig about the rights of others... That, my friends, is what my mom calls "borish" beahvior...

B~

---

19 Sep 10 - 12:31 PM (#2989746)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

And thanks, Strings, fir bringing the discussion back into line... Seems so folks would rather just change the subject...

No, the Tea Party using terrorism and Al Gore's mom's finacial portfolio as topics of conversation have nuthin' in common...

B~

---

19 Sep 10 - 01:10 PM (#2989769)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Stringsinger: "When members of the Tea Party bring weapons to political events to try to intimidate
those who don't agree with them, this is a terrorist tactic."

Agreed...Same with the environmental Whack jobs who start blasting away and proceed in killing people!!!!...while agreeing with Gore, who allegedly IS MASQUERADING AS AN 'ENVIRONMENTALIST' only for the money.

GfS

---

19 Sep 10 - 07:54 PM (#2989977)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

As I understand the environmental "whack jobs" as you refer to them, they don't hurt people. They will sometimes destroy property such as whaling vessels or lumber company equipment. I know of no environmental protest group that use weapons to further their cause ala the Tea Party.

Al Gore has an environmentalist axe to grind but he's not really in it for the money.
He may have political motivations for it but it is not a lucrative position that he is taking
whereas the major corporate offenders are only interested in the bottom line and not in the welfare of the public or their customers. Their CEO's make a lot more than Gore ever dreamt of.

Who is really crooked here?

Al Gore may not be the perfect spokesperson for environmental protection but he is head and shoulders above anyone else today who is allowed to be broadcast on the media.
The whole BP oil spill should convince anyone in their right mind of that. If you believe
that chemical dispersants have eaten all the oil and made the ecological problems of the Gulf Coast go away, I have a Bridge in Brooklyn for sale to you.

The Tea Partiers won't and can't have a position on this issue since they are purely a reactionary group who have no solutions to anything. Gore, no matter what you think of him, is pro-active on a cause he believes in. He is being attacked because he is perceived as being a "Liberal", something the reactionary Tea Party can't stand. It's ideological warfare based on ad hominem arguments.

I think that Bobert's thread is appropriate and he has called it correctly.

---

19 Sep 10 - 08:28 PM (#2989996)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

And thank you, Strings... Ya' ever notice how when people don't really have a defense they just try to change the subject... Unless, of course, it's a Tealibaner and then they either try to shout you down or threaten to shoot you...

I hope that the Dems will point these things out between now and the November elctions... I think there are alot of independents who are tellin' pollster one thing but really haven't made up their minds and the borishjness o0f the tea Party could easially turn an entire the entire election if the Repubs and Tealiban are seen as too far extreme...

Yeah, I know that the Repubs and the Tealiban is tryin' to paint anyone who votes for a Dem a "socialist" but I just don't see that stickin' too well... I think the right has overpalyed the socialist card this time around...

b~

---

19 Sep 10 - 08:37 PM (#2990001)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Yep Strings, when the right starts employing tactics that the left has used for decades, cry "foul"! Simply amazing.

I happened to see one of the last California condors in the wild before efforst began to save them. Where? Elk Hills oil reserve, while working on an oil rig. That is all that is out there, hundreds, if not thousands of capped wells. You won't see the Roosevelt Elk there either. Those that still exist have been settled in other more hospitable areas. The last blunt nosed leapard lizard I saw anywhere near there was 30 miles north where now stands a state penitentiary (Delano). They must not have filed an enviroment impact report before building that one! That was a very interesting article, Ggfs.

"Facts? We don' neeed no stinking facts!"

---

19 Sep 10 - 08:49 PM (#2990008)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I don't recall the left threatenin' to shoot anyone, Slag, if they didn't agree with them...

Yeah, there were some nutty people in the 60s but, hey, 20/20 hinsight the Black Panthers got guns to protect themselves... Didn't work out too well fir them as cops either shot them dead in their sleep or arrested them fir, ahhhhh, danged if I know... Don't remember any other refererneces to threatening to shoot ( or hang) folks that don't agree with you until Sarah Palin went out and riled up Redneck Nation... Now, it seems that we can't go a week without one of these people thrreatenin' to use 2nd ammendment remedies to get hie os her way...

So this idea that the right is now doing waht the left has done for years is ***bogus***... It comnplete mythology intended to give cover to the rednecks who are out there thinkin' it's okay to shoot people if they don't agree with Redneck Nation's wanting to "get their country back"... That is a total crock of hog manure...

B~

---

20 Sep 10 - 01:30 PM (#2990374)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I guess you missed the news item about the environmental whack job, who started firing his weapon, this past week, doing some killing, so the polluted environment wouldn't...oh, never mind.
It was in the news, look it up.

GfS

---

20 Sep 10 - 04:29 PM (#2990462)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yer words, GfinS... The "environmental whack job"... The implication is that this guy was some kinda outsider who went postal...

That is not an argument 'casue it deals with one person...

What we are talking about there is an entire political movement that has infused threats of violence into it's strategy...

If you can't see the difference then you have indeed earned the "in" in Gf"in"S...

B~

---

21 Sep 10 - 12:03 AM (#2990638)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "What we are talking about there is an entire political movement that has infused threats of violence into it's strategy..."

Other than Democrap talking points, do you have a reliable source on that??..or are you just spouting off, again?

GfS

---

21 Sep 10 - 12:06 AM (#2990639)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Ohh...and by the way, speaking of DemoCRAP talking points, the Administration just released this today: The recession was over in July 2009!!!!

I guess if you believe the spin on that one, you can believe about anything!!!!!

GfS

---

21 Sep 10 - 08:12 AM (#2990777)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Geeze, GfinS... I really haven't heard any Dems talkin' about this... Wish they would... Seems the Dems are a little gun-shy (pun intended) these days and not standing up for much...

B~

---

21 Sep 10 - 12:19 PM (#2990887)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

The "reliable source" for Bobert's contention is the display of guns at political rallies.
This is analogous to junta mentality. Let's intimidate those who don't agree with us.

As to Democrats, they are running scared right now. When they find their courage, they
might become a viable Party again.

As to Republicans, they have nothing valuable to offer. Their rage is impotent.
Their lies are transparent but they don't care about that.

Christine O'Donnel and Sarah Palin have nothing valuable to offer to solve the important issues of today, unemployment, meaningless wars, and fiscal policies. They are symbols
of American insanity but at the root of their campaigns are the puppet-masters, the corporations that are financing them. This can be said for the Tea Party in general.

The problem is that just like in Nazi Germany, the public is casting about for someone to blame for their economic predicament. Liberals, Democrats, Peaceniks, etc. are an easy target and with weapons available, they are often literal targets.

Bill Maher may have a point. You are never going to eradicate terrorism. There will be crime and terrorism is one of them. Then again, if we can evolve beyond "fight and flight" we may have a chance of survival.

---

21 Sep 10 - 12:28 PM (#2990894)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Gosh Bobert, It's on the front page, of every national paper, and top news story, on broadcast 'news' today. I suggest you get your head out of your 'posterior' and read something, besides this blog!..that is, if you can see straight!

GfS

P.S. When you see it, you let me know if you think you agree!

---

21 Sep 10 - 01:14 PM (#2990918)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, not on the front page of the Washington Post... Big story about a 7 figure donation to the Tea Party... But with the Supreme Courts latest legislation the American people have no right to know where that money came from...

I'm not too sure, GfinS, what you are even talkin' about whatever earth-shattering story you are thinking of here... Is it "Recession is officially over, but anxiety lingeres"???... Or "Probes by FBI called improper"???... Or "Cildren of al-Qaeda in Iraq pay for sins of their fathers"???... Or "Mystery involving Arlington grave sites grows"???... Or is the Tea Part one entitled "Tea Party works to build on momentum"???

Those are the only stories on the front page of today's Post, GfinS... None else... None about the Dems demanding the the Tealiban offer up a statement that killing folks who disgree with you ain't cool... None about whatever it is that you think is earth-shattering...

Me thinks that you could use a little time out with Betty Ford...

B;~)

---

22 Sep 10 - 02:24 AM (#2991250)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Try USA Today. I simply cannot believe this one escaped you!! Even others have posted regarding this...Oh yeah, I forgot....you're blind to certain things.......and see only what you want to see.
That's probably why you keep running over things while mowing the yard!

GfS

---

22 Sep 10 - 02:30 AM (#2991252)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Try USA Today. I simply cannot believe this one escaped you!! Even others have posted regarding this...Oh yeah, I forgot....you're blind to certain things.......and see only what you want to see.
That's probably why you keep running over things while mowing the yard!

GfS

P.S.   6.
      U.S. recession may have ended in July: professor
      Share YouTube video; Photo contest » ... The U.S. recession may have ended in July as the labor market improved, a ... © 2008 - 2009 Postmedia Network Inc. All rights ...
      www.leaderpost.com/business/fp/recession+have+ended+July... - Cached
   7.
      Recession Ended in June 2009, Group Says
      ... believed for some time, that the recession ended in the summer of 2009. The economy started growing again in the July ... YouTube; Twitter @kpbs @kpbsnews; FriendFeed
      www.kpbs.org/news/2010/sep/20/recession-ended-june-2009... - Cached
   8.
      Recession Over » recession, deflation ...
      It turns out the recession over greater than ... concluded Monday that this a single ended — technically, anyway — in June 2009 ... veterans day world cup 2010 Youtube
      all4freehere.com/2010/09/whether-the-recession-really-over - Cached
   9.
      Expert group: Great Recession ended in June ...
      The Great Recession ended in June 2009, the National Bureau of Economic ... com Revolutionary Roundtable Group: www.youtube ... Chambliss Said His Recession Comments From July ...
      article.wn.com/view/2010/09/20/Expert_group_Great... - Cached
10.
      Economic panel says recession ended in June 2009
      Economic panel says recession ended in June 2009 Panel declares recession ended in June ... The economy started growing again in the July-to-September quarter of 2009, after a ...
      biz.yahoo.com/ap/100920/us_end_of_recession.html?.v=9 - Cached



They must be examining their colons, personally, real well, and up close!!!

---

22 Sep 10 - 08:35 AM (#2991388)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Oh, that one???

{{{{{{{{{{{yawn}}}}}}}}}}}}

And this is "new" news, exactly how???

This is a recycled story, GfinS... They been tellin' US that it was over for the last 6 months to a year and then sayin' that it's going to be several years, if ever, before the economy produces enough jobs to be even close to a full employement economy...

Only those who are "clueless" haven't been hearing or reading these stories all along... I'm not too sure why they feel that had to repackage the same story and bring it out as if it is "news"... Face it, it's "olds"...

I mean, unless you just arrived from a foriegn planet, that is...

B~

---

22 Sep 10 - 11:05 AM (#2991469)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert: "The bottom line here is that some folks here think it is perfectly okay in their book to villify someone because they don't agree with them"

That's what Bobert does every day so he must be one that thinks it's OK.

"foriegn planet"? as opposed to a native planet?

I think this falls into the Illegal loophole category.

---

22 Sep 10 - 12:00 PM (#2991505)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "....They been tellin' US that it was over for the last 6 months to a year and then sayin' that it's going to be several years, if ever, before the economy produces enough jobs to be even close to a full employement economy..."

So, are you saying you believe the lie, or don't believe the lie?? OR Either way you interpret the lie, Obama is your kind of guy!

Stereo politicians, speaking out of both sides of their mouths!!!

But, its okay, you can drool over anyone you want, for any reason you want. Here in America, we have the freedom to be as stupid and tasteless as we want!!! The government will send over someone to wipe your ass....Hey, No wonder you like it!!!!!

GfS

---

22 Sep 10 - 02:29 PM (#2991607)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

It ain't as much as believin' a "lie", GfinS... We're in a pickle of a recovery because the corpoartions have way too much power... They are doing fine... Their profits are up because they know they have their workers by the balls and are squeezin' every last little bit of production out of them... That is reality... Mmy 3 son-in-laws are "Exhibit A, B and C"... One works for Kraft Foods and is salaried and he's putting in 60 hour weeks... Another works for Sylvan Pools and running two markets where two years ago each market had it's own manager... He's also putting in 60 hours a week... The 3rd works for Marriot and he's slammed, too...

What this means is that one heck of alot of people are unemployed... That is the main problem here...

What we have is the "pefect storm" for Boss Hog to bust some butts and that's what he's doing and thus what we have is a jobless recovery... That is the true said of the story...

B~

---

23 Sep 10 - 12:01 AM (#2991970)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Are Homeless people a Terrorist Organization?

Matthew Watkins, 28, was charged with four counts each of first-degree assault and armed criminal action for the attack Saturday at the Mid-America Care Center, the Callaway County sheriff's office said Sunday.

Sheriff Dennis Crane said two victims were cut by a chain saw and two others by a knife. Authorities said the victims injured by the chain saw were in critical condition, while the other two were treated and released.

Watkins had been staying at the shelter for about two weeks and was taking part in a program that provides residents with on-the-job-training, authorities said.

The attacks happened around 2 p.m. inside the shelter. Afterward, Watkins ran outside, where police got him to drop the chain saw at gunpoint and arrested him, authorities said.

Watkins, originally from St. Louis, was being held on $600,000 bond. Jail officials did not immediately know whether Watkins had an attorney.

---

23 Sep 10 - 10:16 AM (#2992217)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Some might be, Sawz... Especially if they are both homeless and card carryin' members of the Tealiban Party...

---

23 Sep 10 - 02:35 PM (#2992417)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Bobert, life has to be easy for you. Just take out your broad brush and paint everything under the banner black or white and dismiss or praise it. It's a great substitute for analysis and actual thought!

I personally have no problem with anybody of either party being armed at anytime. In my opinion that IS the supreme law of the land. The moronic idiot(s) that would try to use (read: missuse)that right to threaten or intimidate would find himself vastly outnumbered. And as for the handful of nutcases who actually do use a weapon, well, they haven't been stopped yet.

Wait! Wait! I hear you screaming! Yes, it is problematic at a huge gathering and where our public leadership would be at risk in these times marked by terrible violent acts. Gun checks, go-nogo can all be in play. A policy of "not here-not now" would render gatherings pretty much as things exist right now. In a free society these things will always be problematic. However when freedom ceases to be, no more such problems, for the governing class at any rate.

Strings, the reason I wouldn't support Sarah Palin is found in her book. Instead of demonstrating leadership quality and confronting John McCain personally when she disaggreed with her handlers, she continued to act the part of a team player. If she was to ever aspire to a higher office, she needed to confront and if neccessary, leave the ticket in support of her own convictions.

As for O'Donnel her political usefullness was exhausted by winning the primary. Her's was not a YES vote for O'Donnel but a NO vote for the Republican status quo. That's all. She demonstrated her immaturity and inexperience NOT by backing out of the Chris Wallace interview (that was bad enough) but by not contacting Wallace and company beforehand with a credible explanation. Rather, it has been her "handlers" spinning excuses after the fact. Does anyone really need this person representing them?

See Bobert, that's how you shoot someone down in the political arena, by facts and sound arguemnt.

---

23 Sep 10 - 02:45 PM (#2992426)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

I suspect that the primary reason the media are focusing various kinds of attacks and ridicule on the Tea Party is this: the media serve the Duopoly (Democrats and Republicans), because the Duopoly serves the media's corporate owners. Anything that threatens the stranglehold that the Duopoly has on the American political process will therefore be vigorously attacked by the mass media, demonized or ridiculed, and held up as a great danger to society...or a joke not to be taken seriously. Whatever works. The main thing is, nobody must be permitted to break or damage the power of the ruling Duopoly.

---

23 Sep 10 - 02:48 PM (#2992430)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

LH,

Your comment CANNOT be true. That would make Amos and Bobert (un)knowing agents of the Duopoly, and we know that they are entirely independent of any political bias, unlike all those that disagree with them.

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23 Sep 10 - 03:45 PM (#2992468)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

It's them Republicrats and Demicans what's doing it to us!

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23 Sep 10 - 05:16 PM (#2992517)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Actually, it is a wonder at all that a loosely orgainized band or angry white people gets all this media time... If we break down the numbers of folks who have voted for the Tea Party cnadidates it's less than 15% of the registered voters in the states where Tealiban candidtes have run... Maybe closer to 10%..l. That makes it a fringe party, at best...

But the media time they are getting is mind boggling!!! You'd think that the so-called "liberal" media wouldn't let such a small band of loonies get so much press...

(Follow the money, Boberdz...)

Oh yeah, countless tens upons millions of dollars are behind the Tealiban Party... Between the Kock brothers and the Dick Armie's lobby (health insurers, pharmacudicals, etc.) these people are, per vote, the most expensive campaign that has ever been waged... I mean, bigass money behind the Tealiban...

B~

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24 Sep 10 - 10:40 AM (#2992903)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Amos

Tea Party's Big MoneyPublished: September 23, 2010
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LinkedinDiggMixxMySpaceYahoo! BuzzPermalink. Tea Party supporters and their candidates like to imagine themselves as insurgents, crashing the barricades of Washington to establish a new order of clean and frugal government. In earthbound reality, many of the people pulling the Tea Party's strings are establishment Republican operatives and lobbyists. Some have made money off the party for years.

One example is Sal Russo, a gun-for-hire who has worked for former President Ronald Reagan, former Gov. George Deukmejian of California, former Gov. Christine Todd Whitman of New Jersey, former Gov. George Pataki of New York, and many other Republicans. As The Times reported on Sunday, Mr. Russo saw a sure thing last year, establishing a group called the Tea Party Express to support candidates in the midterm elections and raise cash at the same time.

The group has spent nearly $1 million in an effort to replace Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic Senate leader. It spent nearly $350,000 to elect Senator Scott Brown of Massachusetts. It is pouring money into Alaska to support Joe Miller's Senate bid. And it has spent $250,000 in Delaware on behalf of Christine O'Donnell, now the Republican nominee for the United States Senate. Mr. Russo held a fund-raiser for Ms. O'Donnell and organized a rally.

In all, Mr. Russo and his group have raised $5.2 million and are the biggest independent supporters of Tea Party candidates. Of that, $3 million to buy advertising went to his political consulting firm or one controlled by his wife. Of course, he takes a substantial cut of each buy.

Dick Armey, the former House Republican leader, considers himself a godfather of the Tea Party and is co-author of the book, "Give Us Liberty: a Tea Party Manifesto." Writing in The Wall Street Journal, he called for a "hostile takeover" of the Republican Party, which sounds so very revolutionary until one remembers that he helped lead that party for many years, guiding its policies and raising its money. When he left office in 2003, he cashed in on his connections to become a very high-paid lobbyist at DLA Piper, one of Washington's biggest law firms, which has clients that include health-care companies, energy producers and foreign governments.

Then there is Carl Paladino, the Tea Party-backed Republican nominee for governor of New York. His bloodcurdling denunciations of Albany never seem to mention that he is one of the biggest landlords of state agencies, owning properties with $85 million in taxpayer leases in Buffalo alone that provide him with income of more than $5 million a year. He is the biggest property owner in Buffalo, and much of his empire has been constructed with state development incentives and tax breaks. An adviser is Roger Stone, an operator for Republicans since Richard Nixon's re-election campaign.

There are undoubtedly thousands of Tea Partiers who would love to purge Washington of well-connected lobbyists, high-priced political consultants and others who take millions of taxpayer dollars while condemning the lawmakers who spend it. They should take a long look at the leaders and candidates who are driving their movement and decide whether purging begins at home.
(Editorial, NYT)

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24 Sep 10 - 12:10 PM (#2992951)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"if they are both homeless and card carryin' members of the Tealiban Party"

Another if. You are really good at operating on ifs rather than facts soow about determining the outcome of this "if":

What if they were homeless and not card carrying members of the "Tealiban Party"

Can you show us one of those cards?

Or would you rather base your "if then" "facts" on bullshit that does not even exist?

Maybe one of those cartoon characters on the Simpson's has a Tealiban membership card you can direct us too.

UAW members carry cards don't they? Would you like some buzzed up boozed up stoner alky building your car?

What if your car was assembled by drunk potheads?

Can you give us some insight on that?

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24 Sep 10 - 12:12 PM (#2992953)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Get a life, Sawz...

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24 Sep 10 - 12:26 PM (#2992958)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Bobert,

You choose to make unsupported attacks on Tea party member, because YOU disagree with them. and the actions of a very small minority.

Sawzaw chooses to make attacks, based on an equally small sample, on union members who support someone HE disagrees with.



If HE needs to get a life, YOU should consider doing so as well.

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24 Sep 10 - 12:42 PM (#2992969)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

I got one and no "card carryin' members of the Tealiban Party" exist in my life.

I suppose UAW members smoking pot and drinking during lunch do not exist in yours.

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24 Sep 10 - 02:49 PM (#2993034)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Amos Lightfoot, all that ballyhoo about some people giving money to the Tea Baggers, you left out George Soros, and his agendas for the Democraps!

GfS

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24 Sep 10 - 05:23 PM (#2993147)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

How could I disagree with the what the Tea Party believes, bruce... They really don't belive in anything that resembles policy positions... Wanting their country back is not a policy position... It is bullshit... Wanting thr "government out of their lives" is not a policy position... It also is bullshit... Saying they are against the deficits but wanting to continue tax cuts is not a policy position... It is not onlu bullshit but not possible...

What I object to is these people are threatening to shoot people who disagree with them... On another thread where I posed a hypthethical question about the left using 2nd "ammendment remedies" I made it clear that I was not advocating shooting anyone... The Tea Party needs to do the same...

I also disagree with their bullying tactics at the town hall meeting last summer... People came to them thinking they were going to be allowed to participate but were bullied so badly by the Tea Party ***goons*** that they left having not been able to particiapte...

Neither of these have anything in common with the way a free and democratic country works...

Now if the Tea Party wants to respect our country and show respect for democracy and stand up and say they have been assholes and they now understand that threatening people ain't the way they want to be seen then it's "game on"...

Until then, they are borish assholes who have no respect for this country and would do better in Afganistan with their Taliban brothers, who BTW, think just like them...

B~

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24 Sep 10 - 05:25 PM (#2993150)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

"People came to them thinking they were going to be allowed to participate but were bullied so badly by the Tea Party ***goons*** that they left having not been able to particiapte..."

Sort of like ANY conservative posting his views here at Mudcat???

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25 Sep 10 - 03:57 AM (#2993332)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Amos, amigo, you are right about the fact the R's jumped up and immediately started trying to co-opt Tea-Party because what the folks were saying was that they are tired of the same old same old. Bush went right down the check list of the things to say to the conservative members of the R's and he was sure to add a lot of sincereity to the spiel. The fish took the bait and that was that. Tea-Partiers are looking for a more sincere bait.

But wait! They are also looking across the aisle for folk who perhaps tend to vote their way of thinking there also so don't be too quick to write this grassroots movement off. There may be something here for everybody.

One thing you have to admit though, they are NOT the homogeneous, monochromatic group, marching in lock-step that Bobert and some others make them out to be. I tend to see those on the left as being in that mind-set. But I was wrong about that! I am having a wonderful time watching the Obama show! You've got to admit that it is entertaing to see a "Unified" party with control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency fumble, fall over each other, bicker and fight and generally squander what may be the moment of a lifetime. And look at what they have wound up hanging their colective hat on: an unworkable, untenable health care initiative! Bravo!

Perhaps, if you are looking for REAL change in gu'ment check out the tea party for yourself. They are not closed to anyone and the debates are just as lively as anything here at the 'cat! Guns optional!

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25 Sep 10 - 11:51 AM (#2993482)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No one here screams or shouts you down, bruce... You can type in peace and type as much as you like... Major difference than the town meetings...

As for the membership of the Tea Party??? Alll one has to do is study the picture that was on the front page of the Washington Post a couple weeks ago after the Beck ralley to have a firm understanding of thr demographics... I studied it under a magnifying glass for some time... No blacks... And at least 7 in 10 of the folks there were seriously over weight which means if they don't have health insurance then tax payers will inevitably be on the hook for one heck of alot of health care expenses down the road just from this sample of about 200 of these folks...

B~

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25 Sep 10 - 12:40 PM (#2993506)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "How could I disagree with the what the Tea Party believes, bruce... They really don't belive in anything that resembles policy positions... Wanting their country back is not a policy position... It is bullshit... Wanting thr "government out of their lives" is not a policy position... It also is bullshit..."

I think you post clearly says it all!! Look at how far you got locked into it. You should re=read this carefully, and it may dawn on you, why you get so much flak......and how screwed up you've become....I mean to say, your post, reflecting your thinking, is exactly where any tyrant would want you!!!

Regards, GfS

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25 Sep 10 - 03:59 PM (#2993595)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Policy position and emotive primal screamin' are world's apart, GfinS... I have yet to hear one actual, ahhhhh, policy position outta these loadmouths... Maybe you'd like to step up to the plate and become a spokesman and put forth something... I mean, anything... that slightly resembles something that rele3ctes what policies the Tealiban would advocate or want to change...

To date, I haven't heard of any they have put forth...

Maybe they just got to get their hissyfits behind them before they are able to articulate what it is that they want...

"Wanting our country back" says 100% nuthing...

"We wnat government off our backs" says 100% nuthin'...

Sorry if I sound impatient to you but there are alot of us waiting to hear what the heck these people want??? I mean, if they want to privitaize Social Secrity or even kill it, hey, that is a position and a starting point for discussion... If they want to kill off every department in the federal government except Defense, hey, that is a policy posotion and a starting point for discussion... Hey, if they want to continue subsidizing the rich with bigass tax breaks then that is a policy posiion and a starting point for discussion...

But they won't come out and say what it is they want and until then if they just think they can go around threatening to kill people they ain't goin' any further than they've come and will start to decline as more of it members say, "Hey, what do we want???"...

This is some very basic logic that I'm talkin' about here, GfinS... Not rocket surgery, by any stretch of the imagination...

B~

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25 Sep 10 - 05:35 PM (#2993630)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Hey Bobert! You may be right! I didn't just look at the Washington Post alone though (it's amazing what you can do with Photo Shop. I could make the demographic 50% black in short order), but that aside. If 11% to 13% of the pop. is black what is that of the about 500K folks who showed up for the GB rally? If it were a totally random sample that would be about 50K or so. That is plenty enough to show up in a random photo. But unfortunately that doesn't happen to be the demographic of the right-leaning side of the US political scene. So perhaps the photo did give a fair representation to fit the PROFILE you were using. That's right, you were profiling. You were examining that photo looking for one thing: skin color. It doesn't matter which skin color it was, it's still racial profiling. Did you look for the lighter skinned blacks or just the ones that would stand out more boldly in the sea of WHITE? Did you think to examine the stage where the speakers were? Had you, I know you would have seen some black folk there, Loretta Scott King for one. I mean, after all it was MLK day wasn't it? Did you count the white hoods or swastikas? How many?

So, why didn't you see any, or rather, many black folk there? I mean after all it was the Republican Party and it was the first Republican president that gave us the Emancipation Proclamation and engaged upon a war to re-unite the country under a banner of total equality and justice, not for just the black people but whites too!. You know, that war where hundreds of thousand of folks, many of whom were white, most of whom were white, died to free our black brothers in the South.

So what happened? Right up until the 1970's the South remained staunchly Democrat and though the North was turning Democrat, mainly through labor concerns, there was still a big shift in attitude toward the black folks. Could it have been through political manipulation that the Republican party was made bereft of their shining acheivement, the liberation of the black folks? you know, divide and conquer where you tell one group, like labor, that the other SMALLER group is holding them down, holding them back! And that you, their party of choice is doing everything they can to help them out of that fix. But gee! it's difficult, their enemies are SO powerful. It's gonna take a lot of money and the real issues are so complex that you, the average guy can't really understand them so it's gonna take a long time too.

An of course the folk who buy into this malarkey are the numbers they need to get them into office. And what they do, once they get there is material for another giant thread which I have no real desire to explore right now. Nonetheless they continually make a boogeyman out of the polical opposition and lay all their failures to come through on their promises.

As affluence continued to grow many of the Democrats' earlier recruits also gained in affluence and realized the lie that the Democrt Party is. They wanted to keep more of what they earned so they began to vote against higher taxation and even more to the point they did not like a party defining them as "down-trodden". Gee, the Democrats needed to strengthen their base with more victims. Who but the black folks! What a gold mine. Divide and conquer and this was especially ripe because there WAS racism! Never mind that it was being largely perpetrated by Southern Democrats. Numbers were what counted and they were and are masters at counting numbers! I mean just look at Florida in the Bush election!

Well the racism was a mixed bag as far as those who supported it, those who were against it and those who didn't have a clue. And thankfully, although the issue was greatly exploited, great steps have been made to end it. But as far as politics go the Repubs completely missed the boat and lost there one-time crown jewel of their party. Ever since then it has been the Deomocrat Party defining what it means to be a person of color! And if ever the black man wanted proof that it was those OTHER white guys doing it to them, well just look at who is racist! QED in my opinion!

But now it's our poor downtrodden brothers to the south of the South who need the Democrats' help. Never mind that they aren't even citeizens of this country! That doesn't matter. Just get here by any means possible and VOTE DEMOCRAT! We will save you. You are being exploited by America! Infact the whole world is being exploited by America! Thank God for Obama or we would have never known that! And just find out what he believes about Salvation! But that too is another thread.

Well, there WERE some black folks at that rally, honest! And some of them were speakers there also. And what they said was far more important than a headcount by skin color. Racism exists, that is true but it is NOT the sole provence of any one party or any one race. It is mean and petty-minded and OUGHT to be identified and driven out of our society. No one can argue that. But we need to stop making boogeymen out of the specter of racism and we need to realize that by doing so is itself a form of racism.

I'll stop here. I'm sure I have given my detractors tons of ammo with which to have a field day. Some may even be deserved. I'll continue to read this thread a while longer. But I could write a book. Just not here.

Just a footnote: Since the Repubs have started to wake up to HOW politics are played (you know, Chicageo-style) they have more and more come to resemble their enemy. Maybe that is what drives the Tea-baggers. Me? I'm still a minority of one.

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25 Sep 10 - 06:15 PM (#2993647)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, yeah... BB allready pointed out that Dr. King's grandaughter did accept an *invitation* to be the token black person... So what??? Doesn't really change much...

Here you have, as reported by more than just me but media and other golks who have attended these Tea Party rallies, a bunch of angry white people with nothin' in the way of policy they want except to "have THEIR country back"...

Now I ain't gonna speak fir black America but the black folks I do know are scared shitless of these people... The old black folk remember Jim Crow and the younger ones have been told by their grand-daddies and grand-mas...

Until the Tea Party can expalin what it wants in terms of actual policies then, hey, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's more than likely a friggin' duck... Right now the Tea Party looks very much like the KKK sans the sheets...

The bit about them shooting people who disagree with them stinks of KKK, too... This is what the KKK did... They bullied and they terrorized people...

Explain to me, Slag, why that is okay in yer book...

B~

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25 Sep 10 - 06:21 PM (#2993653)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Sorry if I sound impatient to you but there are alot of us waiting to hear what the heck these people want???"

Then, NICELY go to where they are having a 'get together', as if you are actually curious, and fucking ask them!!!

GfS

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25 Sep 10 - 07:31 PM (#2993687)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

The Tea Party is based on a misreading of history. If it wants to pattern itself after the
Boston Tea Party, it is not consistent with the reaction of one nation against another.
England had a corporate entity known as the East India Tea Company that dominated
the commerce in the Colonies. Small tea merchants from the Colonies were put out of
work by the East India Tea Company (corporation) which had the support of King George.

The manufactured "Tea Party" in the US is not dominated by any foreign nation and the people who are a part of it are working and doing business under the protection of the laws of the Federal Government. Tea Partiers are not exactly downtrodden poor but kind of upper middle class. They are being financed by the likes of the Koch Brothers who are not exactly representative of the working-class populace. Nor is Dick Armey.

When they say they want "their" country back, what they mean is a return to a time when
blacks were being lynched in the South, Religion dominated the so-called morals of the public, no one questioned authority but obeyed robotically, and children were subjected
to daily child abuse if they didn't tow the line. The country of the Thirties through the Fifties was not served very well by this authoritarianism and it's well to remember that Roosevelt suffered at the hands of wealthy businessmen, some who plotted to assassinate
him. Fortunately he had the courage to stand up to them and saved many working-class jobs as a result.

Much of what "country" they want back is mythological. It was never a time that lacked turbulence, labor disputes, and a unilateral agreement on how the country should be won. Many of the Tea Partiers remember the Second World War and how it appeared that the country was more unified than it actually was. There was a lot of jingoism and flag waving that replaced genuine patriotism. When the war ended, many of these so-called conservatives looked around for another enemy to fight in an attempt to unify the country in a common ideology. In the Fifties they found Communism which then turned that time into a hysteria where innocent people went to jail through the purging of the drunken senator from Wisconsin. When he was finally removed, the public went into a kind of reaction and diversity in ideas. Many realized that they had been hoodwinked by a false "patriotism". They were left with confusion and anger which has carried through to this day.

Tea Partiers should realize that "you can't go home, again" which is to them the mythology of a "Leave It To Beaver" time that was seemingly free from strife and disputing discourse. They are angry because the US got its ass handed to it in Vietnam and there is a suspicion that the same thing is happening today in Iraq and AfPak.

Tea Partiers are suffering from a free-floating anger and find it difficult to target their anger to not much more than a Black President. The mythology of the Tea Party has nowhere to go in reality. Their claim of victimhood runs a lot deeper historically then
just their fear of a repressive government. Corporations have, however, found a way to channel this fear politically to protect their economic interests.

The Tea Party is hysterical and incapable of logical solutions to pressing issues such as unemployment which will not be cured by tax cuts. They can't find the same honest reverence for the "troops" as they once felt they had in WWII. Some brandish their weapons in an expression of impotent rage which very much looks like terrorism.

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25 Sep 10 - 08:05 PM (#2993701)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, GfinS... Seems like yer "driftin' too far from the shore" with the "insanity" bit...

You askin' me to go to Tea Party meeting is like asking an Afro-American back in the 30's to waltz into a Klan rally... I mean, you gotta get a grip here 'cause yer goin' down fast...

Strings put it out there... This is reality... This so-called movement is being bankrolled bhy some very, very, very rich people with their own agnedas who looked around and found that with their million$ that they could incite a bunch of angry white people to riot... And riot it has been... First of all, these very, very, very rich people put together a "primer" on how to disrupt a public gathering, then hired hundreds of "community orgainizer" to go out and get Reneck Nation all lathered up and this is what you have...

These people are being used as pawns and are clueless as to what they really want... They have to be told by FOX Command Central what to say and what to think before they will open their mouths other than parrot, "we want our country back"...

I mean, these are some very stupid people if they have to wait for marching orders from FOX Central...

This is the reality that all Tealibaners here won't address because they haven't gotten their marching orders yet...

Yet they parrot "Bobert is a Dem" or "Strings is a Dem" thinking that that is the end of the story... That is complete bullshit... This ain't about Dems or Bobert or Strings... It's about one shitload of vert barinwashed brownshirters waiting for their next orders...

I tell ya' what... I'd be more tghan willin' to go on any national TV show and debate any Tea Party leader/follower... I'd go without any notes and I'd bet everything I own, includin; my garndmother's Bible, that I would tiest the best of them into a pretzel in less then 10 minutes...

I mean, afetr 500 posts here I can't get one friggin' moronic Tealiabner here to just denounce friggin' violence against people who don't agtree with them!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??...

Ehat the heck is that all about, GfinS???

Why would ya'll denounce yer Taliban tactics???

Huh???

Cat got yer tongue???

Glen Beck got yer tongue???

Osama bin Laden got yer tongue???

Huh???

Come on, ya'll Tea Partiers... Waht, too busy partyin' to have any appreciation for democracy and *****Freedom******...; Frededd om mena being able to go to a town meeting and not be roughed up by a bunch of "true believer" brownshirts...

Huh???

Anyone goin' to step up here or ya'll afraidf of yer own "handlers"...

"Step outta line the man come and take you away..."

Bunch of wusses as far as I can see, ya'llz...

B~

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25 Sep 10 - 08:24 PM (#2993715)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Gosh, Bobert, you sound frantic, like you're coming undone at the seems!

Really, if you want to find out what they're about, go ask one...and don't be so prejudiced, that you can't be inquiring. It won't hurt you.
Shit, I bet you've played in rougher bars!
Just go find out...if you WON'T, then it is YOU, that is uneducatedly opinionated....and therefore, full of shit!

Waving,
GfS

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25 Sep 10 - 08:57 PM (#2993724)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, not really, GfinS... I ain't torqued at all...Been a mellow day and that's just fine in my world...

But, ahhhhhh, with the Tea Party getting almost 24/7 media attention as if it was a newly discovred pill that cures everything that can kill ya' andf guarenttes that you will liove to be at least 100 years old, you'd think that along the way someone from the tea Party would tell the other American people just what the ehck they believe in???

Listen, GfinS... They have a Tea Party here in Page County... Thay even showed a picture of the folks at a meeting... I was lookin' at the piccure and thinkin', "Hey, that's ____________ and...geeze, there's _______________..." and then thinkin', "Hmmmmmmmm, them ain't like the brightest bulbs in the shop..." and then thinkin' about going to one of their meetings???

That'd reminded me of going back to my student teachin' days in college when I had to spend a week working with
"special needs" kids... I mean, God knows I loved them kids, but I sho nuff wouldn't have wanted any of them growing up to run the country... Or town... Or county...

So ya' think that a little ***adult romper room*** will give me a perspective on what ya'll is all about???

Excuse me but I'm gonna go in the bathroom, look in the mirror and se if "Dumb Ass" is tatooed on my forehead...

Gorget it!!!

Get one of ya'llz to go on TV and share ***JUST ONE*** policy position with the rest of US...

Bet the farm you won't...

B~

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25 Sep 10 - 10:39 PM (#2993757)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Now, go stand in front of the mirror, and enunciate real well, so maybe you can read your own lips, "GfS does NOT belong to the Tea Party"..OKAY?? Now try it again, and listen real well.. "GEE eff ESS, D-o-e-s NOT BEE-LONG, to THHE Tea PAR-Tee".....okay, you almost got it, one more time....GfS does not belong to the Tea Party"

Now that wasn't to fuckin' hard, was it?...............SOOOOOOOOO, Stop asking ME about what they're policies are.....

ASK a TEA PARTIER....and if so, try not to volunteer too many arguments..just LISTEN, and pick their brains...if you REALLY want to know. Besides, " Proverbs 18:13 He that answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame unto him."

and.. " The proverb says wise men speak knowledge. They do not belch vain opinions, which fools love to do. They study before they speak (15:28)."

Now, to me, that is pretty good, PRACTICAL advice....don't you think???

(apparently not too often).....wink...

However, we do share some of the same bitches about the present two main parties....but, so do I and Little Hawk...Why don't you go ask him!
(sorry Little Hawk, I didn't mean to do that you... really!)

OKAY...???

Now you can go 'fear and loathe' in peace!!

But of course,
Warmest Regards, (to such a closed minded blather-er),

GfS


P.S. Hope you had, at least, a slight chuckle.....before gritting your teeth)

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25 Sep 10 - 11:25 PM (#2993774)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert: "our governement has two standards... One for righties that says it's pkay to carry a weapon to a ralley where the president is to speak... The other which says it's not okay for liberals to have guns"

Obama: "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun"


Bobert: "The second point is that there are more and more incidents of folks suggesting on the right suggesting violence"

Obama: "I want you to argue with them and get in their face"


Bobert: "the message that the Tea Partiers are sending is that violence is just peachy"

Bobert: "To all my progressive friends: like Rap has said, buy guns, lots of ammo and learn to shoot straight 'cause these rednecks mean to kill people who ain't like them"

That, my friends, is dual standards...

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26 Sep 10 - 12:11 AM (#2993784)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

I guess I missed the news cycle that included T-partiers with guns or advocating shootin' their perceived opposition. I guess I will have to start watching more TV (damn!). Never knew that just saying that you aren't happy with the status quo aligned you with so many down-right dangerous folks.

And Strings, nothing is like anything was... that's the nature of time. Does that preclude someone from alluding to some charateristics of things past? Like a tea party where we told the English crown that we are tired of his oppression? You sure sets some awfully high standards and hoops to jump through for your opposition, don'tcha?

Truth is these folks ( and they ARE folks, you know ) are just tired with the pat game both the left and the right play, especially when there isn't a dime's worth of difference between them. I mean Obama is looking more like Geo. Bush every day. "Change you can believe in!" In a pig's eye. But you all would never admit to it, would ya! Why aren't you all discussing his execution like you were doing about GW? or would that be racist? Huh? Your utter hypocracy makes me want to puke!

"Red is gray and yellow, white
yet we decide which is right
and, which IS delusion?"

---

26 Sep 10 - 08:58 AM (#2993919)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Ya' got it half right, Slagster...

The Tea Party folks are tired of the left... These are the same folks who used to be John Birchers back in the 50s and 60s... Same anger... Same lack of any real ideas other than anger and hatred...

BTW, these people loved George Bush... He convinced them that he was one of them... Of course, he wasn't but his PR team went out of it's way to paint him as some country-boy-hero... Which, again, he wasn't...

Obama??? Nah... He's more like Bill Clinton than George Bush... He has latched onto Clinton's pragmatism which means that he understands the reality that we have a broken government that is kinda hard to drive... I mean, it's a struggle just keepin' it out of the ditches...

That's more of what people are angry over... Heck, I'm angry over it, too... If we had "majority rule" in the Senate then it would work better for the American people but what we have is "minority rule" in the Senate...

B~

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26 Sep 10 - 01:28 PM (#2994020)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

There are similar characteristics. This is true. The Sons of Liberty ran many of what they called offenders out on a rail. The problem is that the historical parallel is not accurate.

The protesters in the Tea Party are confused about who the real "enemy" is. The earlier
Tea Party protesters in Colonial times knew that the "enemy" was the corporation. Tea Partiers today don't get that to their detriment. Many defend the very monolith that will ensure that they will never be satisfied. Corporations are running the government rather than the other way around. The protective agencies of the government have been corrupted by the greed and big money of Wall Street (Summers, Geithner and yes, the loyalty of his earlier financial roots, Obama).

If the Tea Partiers would align themselves with the Left, they could achieve their goals easier because they would recognize that there are similar goals in common, 1. A responsive government that protects people instead of bilking them through corporative influence, 2. An anti-war strategy that would save the country over a trillion dollars,
3. A clean-up of finance reform in politics and an accurate method of avoiding corruption in the US voting process.

Instead, the Tea Partiers are a reactionary force that will sometimes resort to violence out of their frustration by having no realistic goals.   In this way, they might be closer to Al Quaeda with one difference. The latter has a definable goal however unrealistic it might be.

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26 Sep 10 - 05:10 PM (#2994126)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Stringsinger: "The protective agencies of the government have been corrupted by the greed and big money of Wall Street (Summers, Geithner and yes, the loyalty of his earlier financial roots, Obama)."

I agree with that one, BIG TIME!!

Stings: "If the Tea Partiers would align themselves with the Left, they could achieve their goals easier because they would recognize that there are similar goals in common,...."

Nope...they should NOT align themselves with ANYONE, but their own core values....let the voters and history judge them, as it will.

GfS

P.S. Besides, the Tea Baggers very much disagree with the left.
I think it is their momentum that the 'left' envies, but the 'left' fucked up, BIG TIME!!!..and have just about blown ALL their credibility.....(a few die-hards excluded, of course)!!!!

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26 Sep 10 - 07:25 PM (#2994190)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Tell ya' what, GfinS... The policies that the left believes in are the only policies that can move the country forward... I challenged the right here in Mudville to pick any policy they wanted to a few years back and they picked the response to Katrina...

If you have a couple weeks you could read the entire "Katrinagate" thread which I started in response to a hand picked issue from the Mudville right and after 800 posts I don't I shreaded every argument they made...

I will do that with any issue or policy as long as it is framed as something real... "Wanting my country back" is not an issue... It's a pep-ralley slogan which means absolutely nothing...

No, what we have here is the corporation spending money like has never been spent fighting against Obma and dems... That is reality... This ain't about ideas or policies 'cause the Tea Party don't know squat about that kinda stuff...

This is 100% about ther influence of money!!! Tens upon millions for community organizers and media buys...


"Please don't tax our food" is the newest one that is being blasted at US every night... Who is trying to do that??? No one... But the message is clear... Who is paying for that ad??? Who knows...

"Don't tax our energy because it will cost us jobs"... That one has been around for a couple months... Who exactly is trying to do that??? No one... But the message come thru load and clear... Who pays for this ad??? Who knows...

What we are seeing is grand theft of the American go0vernment on a scale that has not been seen in any of our life times and maybe never...

No, this ain't got one thing to do with the good government and good policy...

It's all about the rich wanting to get richer!!! That is reality...

B~

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26 Sep 10 - 10:41 PM (#2994261)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Tell ya' what, GfinS... The policies that the left believes in are the only policies that can move the country forward....."

Right off a cliff, with the rest of the other lemmings.

Bobert: "I will do that with any issue or policy as long as it is framed as something real... "Wanting my country back" is not an issue... It's a pep-ralley slogan which means absolutely nothing..."

I don't see it as merely a 'pep rally slogan'..but rather from people who recognize that government has been removed from, representing the people, and the people are being told, what they have to accept, from the dictates, of a government body, who does not represent the 'will of the people' nor are bound by the framework of its Constitution...and, the people want their country back....that's all.

Bobert: "What we are seeing is grand theft of the American go0vernment on a scale that has not been seen in any of our life times and maybe never..."

You got that right!!!......but you're looking one in direction, at one party, while from another direction, you're being ripped off, too. They are blindsiding you. Both parties are accomplishing the same thing, but in doing it, they just 'appeal' to two different 'mindsets'..which, by the way, they sold to you, in the first place! To the right, that 'their way' is the correct way, and the other side is the wrong way.
The other side is doing the same thing..BUT, the rip off is the same! This now is so wide open, that it is beyond concealing, anymore! The Majority of people DO NOT trust our government!!

Bobert: "No, this ain't got one thing to do with the good government and good policy..."

CORRECT, AGAIN!.....and that 'good government' is made up, primarily, from TWO parties!!!


Bobert: "It's all about the rich wanting to get richer!!! That is reality..."

So, they shouldn't have the freedom, to be rich??
The problem isn't just, 'the rich', the problem is the ABUSE, of the rich, through the 'selective enforcement' of laws restricting the 'rich' to abuse, and repress the rights of those who have not risen to that level of wealth, considered rich.
They do this, by CORRUPTING the process, to allow them to get away with non-enforcement of various laws, (anti trust, labor, etc etc), and preferential tax loopholes(overseas manufacturing, exemptions from those profits, etc etc).
Just as corrupt, is the other side of the coin, unions, being amongst the top of the list.
Not all Unions are bad. Not all the rich are corrupt....That being said, the accumulation of wealth SHOULD be based on accomplishment, not on who you can corrupt, and get away with it....for personal gain.
After money, the game is for POWER..POWER to CONTROL...and to that end, comes REPRESSION, of those others, who they see as a challenge, to THEIR CONTROL. THIS is where is gets ugly.....but by the time it is at this point, laws have already been broken, secret deals made,..and it is US that gets screwed. Blaming the 'rich' or just going after the 'rich' does not cover, what you are trying to accomplish......

......besides, ever got a job from a poor person??

No, Bobert, it really IS the corrupt ways, that this country has been operating, that has us where we are now! The only contention, is to WHO is doing it and WHY, their doing it, and what next?? ..to what end........then, how to stop it!!!

Fair Enough.....(and with no insults, either).

Regards,

GfS

P.S. If you think this was 'hostile' in any manner, whatsoever, re-read it slowly, with no projection, of ANYTHING arrogant, or argumentative. We ALL feel the same pinch!

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27 Sep 10 - 08:57 AM (#2994428)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I understand what your interpretation of "we want our country back is, GfinS... The problem is that if you ask 100 Tea Baggers what it means you'll gat 50% who won't understand the question and of the remaining 50% you'll get 50 different answers... That is what we call moving the goal posts... No one on the left can debate 50 different answers...

Should the rich have the right to be rich... Of course they should but... 1. not by cheating as Wall Street has done and gotten away with and still continues to get away with and 2. the rich shoould also pay their sahre in taxes as it relates to how much wealth they have corrled for themselves...

Fact, GfinS: The tax rates on all individuals now in the US is lower than any industrialized country in the world and at a 30 year low...

Fact, GfinS: The upper 5% percent has corraled 80% of the cpountry's wealth yet pays only roughly 50% of the taxes... That means that 30% of the nation's wealth is exempted...

Fact, GfinS: Cutting taxes even more will contribute to the deficit unless Draconian cuts are made in spending...

Fact, GfinS: All the "earmarks" that the Repubs complain about (even though they get well over half of them) don't account for even 1% of the federal budget...

Fact, GfinS: There are people within the Republican Party who believe in the theory of "starve the beast" (like Bush almost did) as a strategy to kill off the New Deal...

Fact, GfinS: John Beohner is from Mars... Jus' kiddin'...

But, no, let's get real here... The debate right now that the needs to occur is how we get the country out of a 30 year downward spiril... We spend 17% of out GNP on health care yet are tryiong to compete with the rest of the industrialized world that averages 8% and with much better results... I mean, we don't rank in the top ten in life expectancy and we're now like 24th in infant mortality??? That won't get fixed with simplistic bumper-sticker Tea Party slogans... Our eductaional system is shot... We don't rank in the top 20 in math and science when there was a time we were 1st in both??? That won't get fixed with simplistic bumper-sticker Tea Party slogans...

You can go down the list of issues and seems as if one side thinks "we want our country back" or "cut taxes" is the answer to them all... Wrongo, Mary Lou... Ain't gonna happen... Might of fact, it is not onlly childish but terribly irresponsible to propagate such nonsense... These people who are exposing these as responsible policy options should not be in a positon of leadership... They should quit... This ain't no friggin' college football game here... This is our country slowly slippin' further down and the Tea Party and the Jogn Boenhers are rearranging the deck chairs and deciding what song to play next...

That, my dear, is irresonsible...

Seriouis business...

BTW, threatening to use 2nd ammendment remedies against people who one disagrees with is not only irresponsible but it is unAmerican, as well...

B~

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27 Sep 10 - 04:28 PM (#2994720)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Should the rich have the right to be rich... Of course they should but... 1. not by cheating as Wall Street has done and gotten away with and still continues to get away with and 2. the rich shoould also pay their sahre in taxes as it relates to how much wealth they have corrled for themselves...

Okay, that's fair.

Fact, GfinS: The tax rates on all individuals now in the US is lower than any industrialized country in the world and at a 30 year low...

Are you saying you want YOUR taxes to go up??

Fact, GfinS: The upper 5% percent has corraled 80% of the cpountry's wealth yet pays only roughly 50% of the taxes... That means that 30% of the nation's wealth is exempted...

Those figures are a little skewed. Look at it another way, using the same numbers...5% of 'those people' are paying 50% of the taxes. Many people pay NO taxes!..and many of those people are on 'the dole'.

Fact, GfinS: Cutting taxes even more will contribute to the deficit unless Draconian cuts are made in spending...

Good idea!!!

Fact, GfinS: All the "earmarks" that the Repubs complain about (even though they get well over half of them) don't account for even 1% of the federal budget...

1% is 1%....if that is at all true.

Fact, GfinS: There are people within the Republican Party who believe in the theory of "starve the beast" (like Bush almost did) as a strategy to kill off the New Deal...

I would rather see a re-structuring and better efficiency. The amount that the poor get, is LESS than the amount to administer the bureaucracy!! Bigger, wasteful government, and bigger wasteful spending, agreed?

Fact, GfinS: John Beohner is from Mars... Jus' kiddin'...

...and I'm from Sanity....

Bobert: "But, no, let's get real here... The debate right now that the needs to occur is how we get the country out of a 30 year downward spiril... We spend 17% of out GNP on health care yet are tryiong to compete with the rest of the industrialized world that averages 8% and with much better results... I mean, we don't rank in the top ten in life expectancy and we're now like 24th in infant mortality??? That won't get fixed with simplistic bumper-sticker Tea Party slogans... Our eductaional system is shot... We don't rank in the top 20 in math and science when there was a time we were 1st in both??? That won't get fixed with simplistic bumper-sticker Tea Party slogans..."

What I would like to see, as long as you are attacking the 'rich', is a moratorium in regards to paying the private banking concern, called 'The Federal Reserve', for all the fiat money they've printed, THROUGH THE YEARS and charged us the maximum interest rates at whatever time it was printed. Most of our tax money does not pay for services rendered by the Federal government, but rather paying off the interest on the printed, 'loaned' money!!...I mean, if you really want to go after the rich...go after the biggest schmucks of all!!!

The Federal government is also W-A-A-A-Y to bloated, and grossly inefficient in regards to their entitlement programs. This cost could, and should be brought under reasonable control, to better serve the people who REALLY need the assistance....agreed?

GfS

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27 Sep 10 - 04:41 PM (#2994730)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

GfS

I think Bobert is saying that since they control MORE than 50% of the wealth, they should pay more than 50% of the taxes.

But then, the bottom 50% of the population pays no ( net) taxes- thus is presumed to have control of NONE of the wealth.

This works, IF we ALSO let that 5%, with control of 80% of the wealth, have 80% of the VOTES TO CONTROL HOW THAT WEALTH IS USED.

As it is, they pay 50% of the taxes, and only get 5% of the votes.

And the 50% that pay no (net) taxes get 50% of the votes. Seems like they do not have a stake in the game, and no reason to vote responsibly, since NONE of the wealth is in their hands, nor are they paying any (net) taxes.

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27 Sep 10 - 05:22 PM (#2994758)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, yeah, if 5% control 89% of the wealth then havng them pay only 50% of the taxes is a good reason why we are in a fiscal mess... That exe4mpts 30% (minimum) of wealth not being taxed... BTW, it was taxed ijn the 50's under Eisenhower and you didn't have all these rich crybabies...

And, yes, I am perfectly willing to pay more taxes if it's part of reclaiming lost revenuse on the 30% exempted wealth... That alone would get our fiscal health in much better shape and create enough money to deal with the basic obligations and promises we have made to our working/middle class...

As for how those tax dollars would be used??? Ain't rocket surgery... They would be used to shore up our infastructure, to provide universal health care and to get our kids better educated so we can better compete in a global economy where we are getting our asses kicked by countries that are using their taxes for exactly those purposes...

B~

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27 Sep 10 - 09:27 PM (#2994890)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert, there are two ways of accumulating profit, one is to charge more money, therefore raising prices, right?.....and the other is to lower your overhead. This is done, be overhauling the efficiency of any given system. I think the government could come light years, in the dealing with our tax money, honestly, and efficiently, from the ills and irresponsibility accumulated by BOTH parties through the years, through their reckless disregard, of the well-being of their constituents!
Instead of rolling things BACK, both parties tend to 'play one 'upsmanship' on the party previously in power...which they feel they are ENTITLED to legislate MORE, expensive crap, because the 'other party' got such and such...and NOW its OUR turn!...Meanwhile, 'back at the homestead', we are stuck, compensating for shit passed, we didn't need in the first place!!!!.........We needed a war?????...We needed a badly flawed health care system??....We needed these gigantic 'bailouts'?....any body bailing out YOU???!!!??
Now, to pull this shit off,they have to
convince YOU, that this is in your best interest, and wouldn't you like to have it??...............NO!! Before THAT, I WANT HONEST government, and a removal of every obstacle, put by you morons(meaning, out of touch politicians)..and clean up your act!!
....and quit trying to ennoble those faults, you don't wish to correct....Get the hell out of Washington!!!...In fact, a group of you jerks should be 'doin' time'!!!..Both in government, and the crooked profiteers, who control some of our corporations!!!

Bobert, I think we're tugging at the same rope.
As soon as you hear these yokels, trying to sell us another stupid thing, who are they selling it for????? Us to have??...or for the profits of those who payed them off?

I don't want to hear about what interest they represent..I want them to represent me...the collective 'ME"....US!!...and whatever the majority of US TELL them that we want!..Not some joker, who tells us a bunch of poppycock, then changes his stripes once he/she is in office!
As far as the 'Baggers', who knows what they'll do, if elected...but one thing for damn sure, both sides of the aisle better wake up, to what the people are saying, Tea Potters, or NOT!

Wouldn't you agree?
The Dems are scared shitless, and the Republicans are trying to co-opt them..either way, the TWO parties, in Washington, DON'T like them!!!...and are being FORCED to listen!!..GOOD..because 'We the People' are tired of listening to bullshit politicians...and crooked ones at that!!

Oh well, enjoy a brew...
Waving,
GfS

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27 Sep 10 - 10:43 PM (#2994927)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Slavery was the ultimate lowering of overhead, GfinS... I got 3 son-in'laws working as slaves for corporations that recognize the "perfect storm" to bust yer employees asses and they are doing that to all 3 of P-Vine's son... And thety are not alone... The working class/middle class is gettin' a good ol' fashioned "Cool Hand Luke" ass whuppin' right now from Boss Hog...

Now as to ya'lls economic theory that the government doesn't have to bailout, yes ***bailout***, our economy??? Are you out of yer mind??? If an economy goes down the crapper and rather than having 9.5% unemployment to Great Depression levels and yer president and you just sit there and watch it happen without injecting capital back into the machine then you shouldn't be in charge...

Alot of this stuff is well beyond ya'lls "Welfare Cadillac" frame-of-mind, which BTW the Repubs have preached goin' back 40 years, and is just common sense running of a country... It is no secret that what broke the Great Depression was the government having to spend to pay for WW II... That economic model works... Call it socialism... Call it communism... Call it whatever you want... If the working class either won't (or in mnay cases, can't) spend and you have a 4 decade long problem in trade balance then there's only one other way to get capital into the mix to get growth...

I mean no offense, ya'll, but do ya'll understand basic economics???

Now remember that "growth" is where jobs come from...

And profits, too, which oughtta make ya'll happy seein' that lotta ya'll is "supply siders"...

So where it maybe popular in ya'lls circles to think that the mean ol' gov-mint is out to take yer stuff and give it to, ahhhh, poor folks, that just ain't right thinkin'...

(No, Boberdz... That is "right thinkin"...)

Well, it's some terribly misguided thinkin'... Google up "federal government budget" and just check ou what happened to the "War on Poverty"... This a a cruelly put forth piece of right winged PR propaganda...

The mean ol' gov'ment called that war off in 1996... Poverty rate been going up ever since...

(Hey, Boberdz... Thems jus' lazy peoples that don't wanta work...)

Oh, really??? Hold a job fair in any major city in the country and "thems jus' lazy peoples" be lined up at 4:00 in the mornin' waitin' to get in....

But I am beginning to see why so many folks are pissed off at us folks who have bothered to get a little edg-cation... I mean, we know lots of stuff and can formulate opinions based on a wide knowledge base as opposed to lotta ya'lls that run on bumper-sticker emotional beliefs... The scarey thing is that they are "beliefs"... I mean, with an absence of knowledge or the ability to find solutions to problems, I guess "beliefs" is next best???

I mean, history is littered with wars and failed countries because people lost their abilities to think in favor of emoting...

B~

BTW, "bailout" is a bumper-sticker emotive buzz word...

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28 Sep 10 - 12:15 AM (#2994951)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Terminal brain Lock!

GfS

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28 Sep 10 - 03:19 AM (#2995000)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Ggfs, you nailed it in your 26 Sep 10:46 PM post and elsewhere. What I think is that there is a tunnel vision that developes on the part of some who can't seem to be able to accept that it is the majority of us that have problems with the current reigme. The so-called teas parties (plural, please note) are addressing actions that selectively target some of them and not others and yet again those from other social or economic situations are having other types of difficulties with other actions taken by this admistration. There is a reason the dissatisfaction with Obama is growing and his base is eroding. The biggest problem from my perspective is his trashing of the US Constitution, circumventing Congress (which isn't doing such a hot job either) and governing by decree (Executive Order is the "nice" language it's framed in) and it is looking about as close to a dictatorship as anything I've seen in American history, including the FDR years.

And then there's the out and out robbery through deficit spending. Never forget that he who holds the debit, owns the debitor! And on and on. Yup GW was doing the same thing and I agree with you. It's not about the D and the R.

If the US has learned anything this cycle, it is that NOT all "CHANGE" is neccessarily a good thing. Change for change's sake can take you in directions that are NOT beneficial to you or the country.

Choose your issue. You don't have to be white or black or chicano or any other race. If there are idiots who are trying to make race an issue or who are trying to submarine legitimate descension, to hell with them. If they stand out in the crowd, then they stand for themselves. And anyone who selectively focuses on these eight-balls and tries to paint the entire effort with that one color (ie. "racist") well then they are doing the same thing they accuse the racists of doing: They are stereo-typing a really diverse group of citizens who are attempting to draw attention to real grievences.

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28 Sep 10 - 04:48 AM (#2995039)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Now see, Bobert, There's a guy who 'gets it'!
Slags, You hit the head, pretty good yourself!

A couple of thoughts, I had while reading you post: "If the US has learned anything this cycle, it is that NOT all "CHANGE" is neccessarily a good thing. Change for change's sake can take you in directions that are NOT beneficial to you or the country."

Hey, next time somebody runs on 'Change', (either 'side'), how about being truthful, and just tell us what that 'change' is, first!...and IF its a 'good' change, make it happen....HONESTLY, and according to the Constitution, that you swore to uphold, and abide by, because if you aren't doing that, your whole act, is suspect!

Slags: "And then there's the out and out robbery through deficit spending. Never forget that he who holds the debit, owns the debitor!"

I said something very similiar in another post, something like, 'Those who you are in debt to, can control you'.....and their MOTIVE IS CONTROL.....resist! Live straight up.....and I expect you to do the same....'cuz if you lose my trust, then I'm against you!...and chances are, a lot others.

Slag:"
The biggest problem from my perspective is his trashing of the US Constitution, circumventing Congress (which isn't doing such a hot job either) and governing by decree (Executive Order is the "nice" language it's framed in) and it is looking about as close to a dictatorship as anything I've seen in American history, including the FDR years."

Absa-fucking-lutely!!!.........Did you know, as probably most others don't know, according to 'Black's Law Books', that Executive Orders, LEGALLY only apply to Washington D.C., Territories, and protectorates?...not to the 'States', unless we are in a state of emergency??....because it wasn't ratified, by the States?..nor voted on?

He just signed another one, that seems to have a LOT of people concerned. I got an e-mail from somebody, and I was told to read it, a while back, but I really haven't, yet, but I got the gist of it. It's a mind blower!

I should at least check it out, maybe post it........(went to find it).....Ok, I got it:

Hello Everybody,



"Here is another thing that Dr. Carley sent to me and I am passing along. This seems like the Other Shoe that dropped during the Oil Spill.


Here is the Executive Order #13544

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-14613.pdf

I am saddened to say that on June 10th, 2010, Obama signed Executive Order #13544 which mandates that the US is adopting Codex Alimentarius. This legislation, *originating from the United Nations*, in effect, begins a worldwide campaign for massive hunger and starvation. We fought them for 5 years and defeated them in Congress each year. We also assisted Canada over those years and were successful in defeating C.A. in Canada too. As of today, I do not know what has happened in Canada regarding this dire situation.

Now, with a stroke of a pen, and quietly behind the scenes when everyone was focused on the Gulf Oil Spill, he effectively launched Codex Alimentarius in the US, which is intended to bring ALL vitamin and mineral supplements and natural health remedies and technologies to an end. The CDC and the HHS *can now make illegal*, all alternative health remedies and technologies. This bill renders all alternative health remedies "unscientific" and not provable by the FDA. This legislation is a huge step in population control, giving the pharmaceuticals full control over the health of all individuals, which is what the global socialists have wanted for years.

Look up the Executive Order and read it for yourself. But use startpage.com and not Google. Google keeps records of your inquiries and sends all your inquiries to the NSA. Startpage.com does not."

Haven't read Exec order, but here's the e-mail...

GfS

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28 Sep 10 - 07:24 AM (#2995097)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Ggfs, I caught that on the radio the other day. It is truly mind boggeling how invasive, intrusive these dictatorial actions are becoming. Another area that is under assualt is internet privacy/telephone communication privacy. Where are all those who cried out for justice concerning Daniel Ellsberg? Where is the voice that cried out against Bush and the "Patriot Act" which was anything but patriotic? Virtual dead silence from the media, except that evil FOX News crew.

You know, if it all slips away, half these seig-heilers are going to long for the days of being wage-slaves. That will be the "Good Old Days" but they'll have to whisper it because BB WILL be listening and then they will know just how far political correctness can really go! The other half? Alas.

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28 Sep 10 - 08:34 AM (#2995135)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, GfinS...

Neither you nor Slag gets it...

Sorry, but you both have reduced public policy to the emotional level and not the intellectual level... But then again both of you hav e yer ears tuned into the right wing... You are "emoting" nuthin' but pure, 100% right wing bullshit that has no bearing on the survivalbility, growth or making our country more competetive in the global economy...

But here is the rub... Here we have a commission on the deficits and one side, like Isreal putting down pre-conditions before they are willing to negotiate with the Palestians, ya'll righties (and quit denying it GfinS 'cuase you are clearly well on the right) want to do that before any discussion/negotiations can occur???

You and slag can deny it but it comes thru load and clear...

"Trashing the constituion", Slag??? That is pure 100% unaltered right wimged, Rushed, Becked bullshit...

Google up Iraq War if you wanta see some trashing of the constituion...

But here ya'll in yer little circle jerk of two thinking, like are righties, that if you sing in harmony that you points will have validity??? Kinda like the goons at the town meetings last summer...

But that doesn't make either of you correct... Just borish...

I mean, if ya'll ever get over yer emotionalism and want to discuss stuff from your knowledge bases rather than FOX pablum, then fine... All I read ffrom eitgher one of you is the latest talking points from the far right...

B~

---

28 Sep 10 - 03:59 PM (#2995459)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

I am saddened to say that on June 10th, 2010, Obama signed Executive Order #13544 which mandates that the US is adopting Codex Alimentarius. This legislation, *originating from the United Nations*, in effect, begins a worldwide campaign for massive hunger and starvation. We fought them for 5 years and defeated them in Congress each year. We also assisted Canada over those years and were successful in defeating C.A. in Canada too. As of today, I do not know what has happened in Canada regarding this dire situation.

"Now, with a stroke of a pen, and quietly behind the scenes when everyone was focused on the Gulf Oil Spill, he effectively launched Codex Alimentarius in the US, which is intended to bring ALL vitamin and mineral supplements and natural health remedies and technologies to an end."

There are many vitamin and mineral supplements and natural health remedies that are bogus and are palliatives for those who don't watch what they eat normally. Vitamins often make expensive urine.

DA. "This legislation is a huge step in population control, giving the pharmaceuticals full control over the health of all individuals, which is what the global socialists have wanted for years."

The FDA is pretty much controlled by the Big Pharma and I know of no socialist anywhere that wants this control. However, Big Pharma, the corporatist and capitalist monolith does want control. Socialists of any consistent stripe are opposed to this.

The principle is to protect the consumer from fraudulent products but unfortunately
is a tool now of Big Pharma to isolate their competition.

This is a thread drift but it brings into focus that the Tea Party fears excessive regulation but what they don't get is that it's the corporations such as Wall Street, Big Pharma, the M.I.C., the Pentagon, Religious lobbies, Energy lobbies that control the lack of regulatory power they have sapped from the government. The Tea Party is blind to this fact and this is the chief cause of their dilemma. Socialists are opposed to this corporation takeover
but the Tea Party supports it.

---

28 Sep 10 - 05:49 PM (#2995564)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, strings, and let the next coal mine explode and bury or kill x number on miners and it will be the Tea Partiers blaming the feds for not doin' their jobs???

This is such hypocrisy... I mean, I fully understand Boss Hog's motives but I really don't think the average IQ of a Yea Partier allows them to fully understand that they are being used to support stuff that is plainly agaisnt their own best interests...

I know this rightie who's dad was a close friend of ours... He had a stroke in December and she was just pissed off that Medicare would only pay for 90 days of long-term before he had to use his own resources to pay for his care... That meant that money that he had saved all his life was not going to her but to the long term care facility... She was very pissed off that Medicare has such a policy... Interpretation: I hate the government becuase my daddy can't get more of it???

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that 90% of the Tea Party folks are just like her... Hate the government until they need it...

Meanwhile, with Boss Hog grabbin' more and more there is less and less for the middle class 'cause he always gets his fill first and the middle class gets his crumbs...

That is the real deal here...

Thanks, strings for untanglin' the most recent BIG LIE being manufactured by the Obama haters...

B~

---

28 Sep 10 - 06:58 PM (#2995594)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

500

---

28 Sep 10 - 07:15 PM (#2995604)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Again, both Bobertz and Strings are partially right (er', I mean 'correct'). I fear ALL government(s) as they could all represent undue power over peaceful, little old me! I believe in the general welfare of all. I believe in a common defense. In a free country and as a free man I believe that the government that governs least is generally the best. I do not need a leader. As a free man I am my own leader and I want to lead my own life. Busybodies and governments, BUTT OUT! Ideally, a government should provide ways and means for me and other free people to do just that and to conduct our lives as we see fit.

On the other hand, it takes the government to provide or at least pave the way for other goods and services which the individual cannot provide, take care of the bad guys (criminals), insure health standards in food and medicine and medical practices, etc. So it's a balancing act with Government on one side and my freedoms and rights on the other. I want a government that won't let me or anyone else run amok, hurting people and I want a government that recognizes my (our) inalienable (read: untouchable) rights. The equation sign or the fulcrum, if you will, is you and me in the middle. That's all. In light of our Constitution that is a reasonable expectation. I'm conservative. That means I want to keep things that way and work towards that more complete union, of by and for WE the PEOPLE. That's what I want to conserve. I'm pretty liberal about a lot of other things. Don't tell me how to enjoy my life and I won't tell you how to live your life, unless you ask me and are genuinely interested.

I don't hate President Obama. I just think he is wrong minded about these things. Why are you constantly trying to make me out to be a racist and a hater? Maybe to justify your wrongheaded ideas? You have to demonize your enemy before you can feel at ease about killing him? It makes it a lot easier to pull the trigger or as in former President Bushie's case to put the noose around "Monkey Boy's" neck as some of you were want to call him and so glibbly talked about doing on another thread some time back.

And yet if some misguided zealot depicts Obama as a monkey (on a sign Which read "monkey see, monkey do") at the fringes of a tea party, well, he's a racist! Who knows? You might be right about that. What does that make you though? A patriot? Put the Kool-aid down and come out of the jungle (which is a reference to Jim Jones and not Mr. Obama's ethnicity. I know how you think.).

---

28 Sep 10 - 07:45 PM (#2995625)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Hey, I point out where I see right wing propaganda drippin' from folks posts... Obama wants world starvation??? I mean, lets get real here??? Obamacare??? Right winged propaganda being driven by tens upon millions of ver subtle advertising and allowin' a right wing propaganda machine to operate as if it were a legit "news station" under a FCC licnese... Fox should be booted off the public airwaves and be made to become a cable channel...

I mean, think about it... What if you wanted to buy a new Toyota and you were in the sales office and there in the room with you and the Toyota salesman was a Honda salesman telling you every step of the way that Toyotas suck... I mean, when we allow the ***publicly owned airwaves*** to be used as 100% propaganda then that is exactly what you have... No wonder so many people want the health care reform repealed... They have been bombarded from every which way from DAY 1 with propaganda... Lots of it purchased... Lot's of it FoxFree... But the outcome is still the same... And who has paid for this??? Health insurance companies put tens of millions in Dick Armie's lobbiest firm... Tens of millions (perhaps hundreds) were spent to do what the Honda salesamn was trying to do...

The problem here is that the rich can afford to smear anything that might redirect some of the wealth they have stolen from the middle class over the last 30 years... Where exactly does the middle class come up with those kinds of bucks to, or ownership of it's own FCC blessed propaganda network to fight back???

We4ll, I'll tell you where... They don't!!! The middle class doesn't have any clout and therefore ends up getting shafted every which way to Sunday... And look at the ads and look at the FOX propagnada... Who is it aimed at??? The less educated... The most emotional v. intellectual... I mean, eduacted people can see thru the smoke screen that Boss Hog sets up... The marginally educated do not have the critical thinking skills to know jack from jack and there fore become the folks that all the propaganda is aimed at and therefore you get sttements like:

"Obama has trashed the constitution"... This isn't information... This is propaganda... or...

"Obam wants mass starvation"... Again, anyone with the ability to think critically see thru this as a PR stunt to get the uneduacted lathered up against Obama...

So bottom line??? If one is using those kinds of falming generalizations then one most likely doesn't have the intellectual capacity to see thruth and takes the propaganda hook, line and sinker...

Yes, I was hard on George Bush but it wasn't because someone with a lot of money with an axe to grind used propaganda on me... No, like I said, we don't have too much of that on the left (George Soros being the exception but he's chump change compared to the $$$ on the right)... No, I was hard on George Bush because he stole and election, because he was fiscally irresponsible and because he started two wars that never should have been started... Them is some serious rteason to be hard on someone...

Going out and trying to improve our health care??? Trying to regulate mining and crooked bankers??? Where's the harm to the middle class??? There isn't any...

B~

---

29 Sep 10 - 12:15 AM (#2995784)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: ""Obama has trashed the constitution"... This isn't information... This is propaganda... or...
"Obam wants mass starvation"... Again, anyone with the ability to think critically see thru this as a PR stunt to get the uneduacted lathered up against Obama...
So bottom line??? If one is using those kinds of falming generalizations then one most likely doesn't have the intellectual capacity to see thruth and takes the propaganda hook, line and sinker..."

....and all the Democrats who supported and/or voted for Obama's agendas, are distancing themselves from the President....Why's that??

The Obama Administration, pushed most all of his agendas through, with the help of a majority, of Dems licking his boots...and now he is blaming Fox News, for his FAILED policies???? Fox didn't write or vote for those bills!...and now it's THEIR fault????

Obama runs up the biggest deficit, BIGGER than ALL Presidents before him, including Bush, and now its ALL Bush's fault?????

Talking about 'spinning', Bobert,(and probably Amos Lightfoot, as well), You have been spinning so hard and fast, it's quite obvious to us, that you're pretty fucking dizzy.

Slow down, and analyze this stuff a little clearer. You are not accomplishing ANYTHING by parroting the liberal EXCUSE machine, and thinking that YOU are not propagating propaganda, yourself!! Your rap, is so monotonous, and ill informed, AND out of step with most Americans, that you are becoming irrelevant !!! Jeez, I just skimmed your post, because the stuff you are saying, reflects DNC desperation blather points...and if there is a time, where VALID criticism, of the Republicunts, that would be useful, is NOW!...Not all these lame, finger pointing blame charges, that simply are not true!..nor constructive!..Just, shit like, "Don't blame me! I'm not responsible!.. Its Fox, or Bush, or 97% of all forest fires, are caused by trees!"

Just maybe, just maybe,....it is Obama, and the disappointment he brought with him. Stimulus??? Unemployment not going above 8.5%??
Here, I'll help you: "Well GfinS, it would have been 54% without it!"
Bullshit!.........."Well it was because of Bush"...only partially true...."Fox News fired everyone, across the nation..it's their fault" ..Bullshit! ...."It's the Tea Party, they did it!"...Bullshit! They are a re-action...."No No No, you don't get it...its that stupid bitch Sarah Palin! She made everyone turn against Obama!"....Bullshit...."No, No..It was Glenn Beck, who cast the deciding vote!"...Bullshit!

People were so over-hyped about the over-hyping of candidate Obama, and fell into the 'American Idol' mentality, instead of paying attention, that really, there was no where else to go but down!..Plus, the policies stink!...and employed bribes for votes, to get through....AND, DID NOT REPRESENT THE WILL OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO IT WAS SUPPOSED TO SERVE!.......and now he has been found out. What did you expect???

Hey, the same thing is going to happen to the Republicunts, because of the over re-action momentum they are riding now.

As my Dad used to say, "There is nothing so permanent, as change...the pendulum swings from side to side...but the wheels of time, roll slow, but grind fine"
Wise man.

GfS

---

29 Sep 10 - 09:28 AM (#2996035)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Og course the Dems are distancing themselves, GfinS... You aren't paying attention... This is all about a multimillion dollar subtle smear campaign that is paying off in spades... And, guess what... They are still at it... There are so many bogus organizations out there that Boss Hog funnels his $$$ that it would be amusing if it weren't downright repulsive...

The new one 'round here has to do with ***the big scarey goevernment*** wanting to decide what you buy at the grocery store... Here's the lady walking down the isle at the Food Fresh and she's ranting about how ***big scarey government*** now wants to tax our foods in a manner that will allow ***the big scarey government*** to regulate what we buy at the Food Fresh... First of all ***the big scarey government*** has no interest in taxing our foods... But more imporatntly, the message is ONCE AGAIN, "The government is in our lives and on our back!!!"... That is one of the few right winged talking points that we are now have rammed home ONCE AGAIN by the right wing...

Message: Be afraid of the government... Government is bad, bad, bad...

Who is paying for this ad: Who knows buit take a guess... Welcome to the Supreme Courts "Citizens" ruling...

Yer dad was right, ahhhhh, correct, GfinS... Back then, yeah, the pendulum did swing... Doesn't do all that much swinging of late... The right has had the country by the throat for 30 years and still does and with "Citizens" and an electorate that isn't in the Top 20 in terms of education, there won't be any swinging to the left again until we get the following:

1. Better educated people who can think

2. Publicaly funded elections

3. FOX off the ****public**** airwaves as per the original intent set up over 60 years ago

4. Full disclosure of just who is buying advertsining

5. The reintroduction of "critiacl thinking" in our schools

B~

---

29 Sep 10 - 11:19 AM (#2996108)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

BTW, GfinS... Ain't Amos and me that are ill-informed... Compared to you both of us are like Menza material compared to the "special needs" segment here in the Catbox...

Like I said... Yer daddy's pendulum is stuck on "right" and will be until we have an ***informed*** electorate with real ***critical thinking*** skills.... "Right" now, that doesn't look possible as the country is goin' down fast...

(But, Boberdz... People been saying that forever...)

Yeah??? Look at the US statisticly... Health care??? 17% (1st in the world in terms of cost) and not in the Top 10 in life expectancy!!!
Education??? 1st in the world in math and science a genaration ago... Now??? Not in the Top 20 in either...

These are things that "liberals", you know those ill-informed "elitists" are concerned about yet have to listen to the same ol' ill-informed, emotive bullshit from ya'll righties...

You think yer tired of what Amos and I have to say??? Not to worry... One day all the educated people with the ability to think critically will die offd and then you and Slagster can have Epsilon Nation that ya'll seem to want... You know, kinda like "Mad Max Afetr the Thunderdome"...

Then all will be well...

Until then, those of us who do have both a knowledge base and critical thinking skills will just have to bore ya'll on yer way down, down, down...

B~

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29 Sep 10 - 11:48 AM (#2996125)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "This is all about a multimillion dollar subtle smear campaign that is paying off in spades... And, guess what... They are still at it... There are so many bogus organizations out there that Boss Hog funnels his $$$ that it would be amusing if it weren't downright repulsive..."

"...The Multimillion dollar subtle smear campaign..." is what got Obama elected in the first place!

Bobert: ""The government is in our lives and on our back!!!"... That is one of the few right winged talking points that we are now have rammed home ONCE AGAIN by the right wing."

It's also a FACT, that BOTH sides have been pushing...but then, one side promoting just the 'ONE side', disregard FACTS anyway. The Obama regime, just rammed through the intrusion of being able to look into our E-mails, and such. Just HOW is that much different from the 'Patriot Act'. I think it is an extension of the SAME agenda....by the SAME people! In any event, the INTRUSION of our personal freedoms, just keep coming in. Check out the regulatory shit in the new 'Health Care' farce!

Bobert: "3. FOX off the ****public**** airwaves as per the original intent set up over 60 years ago

Fox is not the problem. The first case of FREEDOM (getting unpopular with politicos), was Peter Zenger:

The history of libel in American can be traced directly to one man: John Peter Zenger.

"(Libel is printed material that is known to be false. It usually involves verbal attacks on people, usually public figures like government officials or celebrities.)

Zenger was a printer, the publisher of the New York Weekly Journal. He stood accused of printing comments that were critical of the British governor of New York, William Cosby. Zenger began publishing his newspaper in late 1733. The following year (November 17, 1734), he was arrested and thrown in jail. The charge was libel.

Now, the laws prohibiting libel at that time meant that you couldn't print anything bad about the government or you'd be arrested. Zenger was publishing words that were critical of Governor Cosby, and the governor didn't like it. So he had Zenger arrested and thrown in jail.

The young printer sat in jail for eight months until his case came to trial. Interest in the case grew and grew, with both sides taking a keen interest. Finally, Zenger got a chance to have his say in court.

He was defended by a brilliant young attorney named Andrew Hamilton, whose brother was Alexander Hamilton, one of the Founding Fathers. Andrew Hamilton saw a way to make a name for himself and for his client. He also saw a way to change the face of law forever in America. His strategy: argue that it wasn't libel if it was true."

Hamilton won the case for Zenger.
If you don't like Fox News, don't watch it. You start censuring them, you open up a MASSIVE can of worms......but that don't matter to the 'far left', huh?

I know...those darn founding fathers keep getting in the way, of the 'far left'!!!

Bobert: "4. Full disclosure of just who is buying advertsining"

AGREED!!!...Then we can find out just exactly who is financing who!...including the millions Saudi Arabia gave to promote Obama.(you should look that one up).. I personally don't think foreign countries should be allow to finance any of our elections! Nor Corporations, Nor unions!!!

Bobert: "5.The reintroduction of "critiacl thinking" in our schools"

Besides, the political interpretation of, "The reintroduction of "critiacl thinking" in our schools" I'd be happy if they taught SPELLING a little better!!...don't you???? (A lot of your posts take considerable effort to decipher).

Get off the 'far left blather points', and into reality!
Personally, I take most 'news' sources, with mixed skepticism...but you should watch Fox, once in a while, to see what the 'other side' is saying, and maybe even 'why'. It is better for objective CRITICAL thinking!


GfS

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29 Sep 10 - 11:55 AM (#2996133)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Education??? 1st in the world in math and science a genaration ago... Now??? Not in the Top 20 in either..."

Are you trying to tell me, that the American Federation of Teachers Union(AFT), is a right wing organization, and the members are Conservatives??????????????????
Have another hit!

GfS

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29 Sep 10 - 01:08 PM (#2996195)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, GfonS... What I am telling you once again, which BTW is like trying to p ound the square peg into the round hole, is that the political power in the country has been in the hands of the right going back 30 years... Bill Clinton wasn't no liberal... Dem??? Yeah... Liberal??? No!!! Just another rightie in a long string of them...

So, if we are to just seperate all that "Zenger Conspiracy" crap outta the discussion and just look at the report card and where we, as a ntion, ranks now compared to when the righties took over then it's "Houston, we have a problem"...

I mean, ya'll righties get way too bogged down in stuff that really has nothin' to do with nuthion'...

"Liberals", however are lookin' around, seein' that gapin' hold in thr side of the boat and inflating the life boats while ya'll righties are content to sing on with on with one conspiracy tune after another???

I mean, Einstein said that "repeating behavior expecting different results is insanity" and that's exactly what ya'll are all about... Thus the "in' in "GfinS"...

Ya'll gettin way too much entertainment value outta smugly parroting one rightie talkin' point after another with total disregard for the reality that the boat is going down and that everyone needs to pull together to try to fix it...

That's the bottom line here, GfinS... The "liberals" don't wnat the boat to go down but ya'll on the right are perfectly willin' to let it go down if it means that ya'll will have "the power" when the stern fianlly disappears from sight...

But you and the Slagster just keep gettin' yer jollies exposing/parroting Boss Hog's fight song... Seems that ya'll stuck with what you are stuck with and it's like a bad poker hand... Too bad that folks on the right want so much for the country to fail just to get Obama out... Purdy self defeatin' on ya'll's part...

Me??? Yeah, I wanta try reforming the health care system 'cuase it is one of the major causes of the country's decline... And I want to fix the eduactional system 'cause it's equally responsible... Yet you want to play game about unions... Hey, you know that I have come out here in support of Michelle Rhee so to say that I am strickly some dogmatic person who only parrots some ficticious set of beliefs isn't accurate at all... It shows that "liberals" want to do what needs to be done to fix stuff...

Unions is another story... When the country had 30% membership the real wages of the middle class rose... When it got to 20% the decline began... Yeah, you can point out abuses... But those are case-by-case... When you set policy on one or two case studies and not the big picture you set bad policy...

Now 'ol hillbilly has had just about enuff of wranglin' on this thread fir now... Plus, gotta get back to work 'cause we're gettin' ready to get hammered with rain which is gonna knock this pudder down fir a day 'er so... So ya'll just have at it... Sing all the very latest Boss Hog fight songs...

BTW, don't look fir Amos to come along and rebute ya'lls stuff 'cuase he's allready on the east coast for the Getaway so...

...looks like its gonna be a rightie love-fest fie awhile here...

B~

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29 Sep 10 - 01:12 PM (#2996200)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

It's futile to continue to use the word "terrorist" since it has become a political propaganda mechanism as a way of labeling an "enemy". It used to have one meaning but the Tea Party G.O.P. as well as some Dems have distorted it to beat those over the head of those with whom they disagree. "Terrorist" is the new "Communist".

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29 Sep 10 - 01:45 PM (#2996228)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Bobert,

YOUR statement "the political power in the country has been in the hands of the right going back 30 years." is somewhat inaccurate. 2010 - 1994 = 16 years


"The Republican Revolution or Revolution of '94 is what the Republican Party of the United States dubbed their success in the 1994 U.S. midterm elections,[1] which resulted in a net gain of 54 seats in the House of Representatives, and a pickup of eight seats in the Senate. The day after the election, Democratic Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama changed parties, becoming a Republican.

The gains in seats in the mid-term election resulted in the Republicans gaining control of both the House and the Senate in January 1995. Republicans had not held the majority in the House for forty years, since the 83rd Congress (elected in 1952). Large Republican gains were made in state houses as well when the GOP picked up twelve gubernatorial seats and 472 legislative seats. In so doing, it took control of 20 state legislatures from the Democrats. Prior to this, Republicans had not held the majority of governorships since 1972. In addition, this was the first time in 50 years that the GOP controlled a majority of state legislatures.
"

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29 Sep 10 - 01:54 PM (#2996234)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

"In the 1996, 1998, and 2000 elections, Republicans lost Congressional seats but still retained control of the House and, more narrowly, the Senate. After the 2000 election, the Senate was divided evenly between the parties, with Republicans retaining the right to organize the Senate due to the election of Dick Cheney as Vice President and ex officio presiding officer of the Senate. The Senate shifted to control by the Democrats (though they technically were the plurality party as they were one short of a majority) after GOP senator Jim Jeffords changed party registration to "Independent" in June 2001, but later returned to Republican control after the November 2002 elections. In the 2006 elections, Democrats won both the House of Representatives (233 Democrats, 202 Republicans) and the Senate (49 Democrats, 49 Republicans, and 2 Independents caucusing with the Democrats) as well as the majority of state governorships (28-22)."




So, the Republicans were in control of Congress from 1995 to 2007...12 years total, INCLUDING an 18 month interruption ( June 2001 to Jan 2003)

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29 Sep 10 - 02:48 PM (#2996273)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bruce, I think Bobert uses the word "Righties" and "Boss Hog" to describe ANYONE who disagrees with his personal points of view. He does, however, have a real problem distinguishing liberal talking points, with FACTS, and therefore is blinded as to the sources of the very things he is whining about...which. of course, affects the outcome for any real solutions!

So called 'liberals' (which in most cases, are far from liberal), have the distinct attribute of accusing, and whining, to get their way.

As far as Clinton being, or not being 'liberal' enough, to considered 'far left', who knows....but one thing for sure, he was always Bush Sr.'s, buddy, right back to the co-operation they had, when Bush was running guns for coke, into Central America(true story). Mena was where?....under whose 'governorship'???

Your pals at work. Your tax dollars, with it!!!!! .

..Oh, and..." So, if we are to just seperate all that "Zenger Conspiracy" crap outta the discussion...."

'Zenger Conspiracy'?????????????

You probably should click the link, which referred to that...If those damn right wing teachers taught you to read!

Bobert, You might want to get after those 'right wing' teachers about your math skills, and history lessons, too....(Damn right wing conspiring teachers!)

Oh yeah, and as long as we're at it, Bobert: "No, GfonS... What I am telling you once again, which BTW is like trying to p ound the square peg into the round hole......"

YOU'RE the one with the hammer in his hand!!

Smiles and Waves,

GfS

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29 Sep 10 - 05:30 PM (#2996372)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, I mean "right" to mean "right"... To me, that is anyone who works toward demolishing any programs that might in any way level the playing filed to make life easier for the middle class and the poor among us...

The least humanistic of the right say "touhg" and the ones trying to sound caring think that the churches can make up the gap... Neither seem to have shown to work...

As fir the Zender guy??? Never heard of him but if that is who the right now says is responsible for "liberalism" then I'd have to say that sniffs of conspiracy thinking...

As for the right having a lock on thde country, bb... It really has less to do with elections than manipulation of public opinion... That started with Ronald Reagan... He was the one with the not-so-bright idea that what the country needed was less government and regs... That has been the prevailing attitude for 30 years and when Bush II left office it was apparent,even to a dead Helen Keller, that is was a failed model for governing... It ain't about Dems or Repubs or Newt Gingrich... That was just side show politics as the pendu;lum was being welded so that it would be able to ever swing left again...

And it's still firmly welded and ain't budging... When it looked as if the welds might be weakening the Supreme Court came in with the "Citizens" ruling which should hold for years...

So fir all you crybabies on the right??? You are all delussional if you think the left will ever again see the pedulum coming back... The fix is in and like in any failed state, the die is firmly cast against the US succeeding ther greed of the rich...

And guess what bb and Gfins... Ya'll are the dupes keeping the rich rich and everyone sle going backwards... Great job, ya'll... Boss Hog loves you both very much and keep up the good work...

Like horses in the fields in "Animal Farm" ya'll are the dupes of all dupes...

But I like ya' both even if you are completely barinwahed to doing the masters bidding...

B~

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29 Sep 10 - 05:40 PM (#2996378)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert, Quit being lazy, uneducated and opinionated at the same time!

I gave you a link, about Peter Zenger. It is in our American history..a VERY important case precedent was set there. It would serve you well, to hip yourself to it.....so you don't come off, blathering about stuff you are ignorant about.

By the way, re-read your last post...the spelling is atrocious!...I mean, Do you really want to come off as illiterate?

Hey, I'm being supportive of YOU...just not your blind side.

Regards,

GfS

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29 Sep 10 - 06:16 PM (#2996410)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Right wing? Left wing? Pendulum? Take off the blinders fer cryn' out loud! Boberts is fighting where no one is attacking and nobody seems to be FOLLOWING the MONEY! That is what a good detective always does because it will ALWAYS lead you to the perpetrator(s)! Why? Money is power in this world so that's where the psychotic control freaks congregate. They are behind the scene pulling those strings and if they have you distracted and running around in little left-right circles, they are deleriously happy because you are generating money for them (read: You are WORKING for THEM)and all you can see is the agrument they fabricated for you, left and right. Sure, they throw in some ideals which are near and dear to your hearts but who reads or cares about a story line if you can't relate to it in some manner. The alarm is ringing! Time to get up before the next war is generated and makes them even MORE money!

---

29 Sep 10 - 06:18 PM (#2996413)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Funny lookin' support, GfinS... Heck, ya' don't even like my spellin'... Now that does it fir me... I mean, me and Al Gore invented spellin'...

Illiterate. my butt... I'm lexdexic... There's a difference... Plus, there ain't no ltters on the keys of my typewriter here... They wored off from years of po undin' on it... Ya' see, lexdexic people don't really see mis-spelled words like un-lexdexics... I mean, I can type somethin' that might be mis-spelled but lexdexic folks don't look at the pudder screen and see it that way all the time... Might of fact, we don't see it all most of the time... I mean, if it has some of the correct letters it looks fine... Welcome to lexdexia 101...

(Well, Boberdz... Why don't you use spell check...)

Well, sho nuff could... Then I be wrestlin' 'round with ya'll knotheads and the check thing, too... Forget it...

B~

---

29 Sep 10 - 09:23 PM (#2996523)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "...Might of fact, we don't see it all most of the time..."

Amen to that!!

GfS

---

29 Sep 10 - 09:25 PM (#2996525)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Right on, Slag. Hey, Where did you get so Sane? Are you from Sanity-Land, too?

GfS

---

30 Sep 10 - 07:04 AM (#2996688)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Yeah, I reckon. I peek in here to see how the inmates are getting along from time to time, stir 'em up a bit then run for cover!

I love these guys, really. Preaching to the choir is no fun. I like a challenge! People who agree with me all the time scare me!

---

30 Sep 10 - 01:37 PM (#2996956)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I'd get up a big long post fir ya'llz entertainment but this pudder gonna crap out real soon... Ya' see, we here in the Mid Atlantic is in the middle of some serious rain... Well, it's slowed down fir now and allowing the satallit to get thru the cloud but that ain't gonna stay like that fir long 'cause they expecting Round Two shortly and we be back in the monsoon...

Me??? Screw it!!! I been out in the barn organizing the stuff we need to sell v. the stuff we don't if we are able to sell our farm and move to Carolina... I ain't too worried abiout the Tea Party today 'cuase seems that ther are about couple thousand "stink bugs" hiding in everything they can in th barn... Ther plannin' of livin' in there this winter and I'm sure lot will but fir now??? I'm killing the sumabiches by the hundreds...

Ahhhhh, not to wooryy, Slagster... Long as you stay plugged into Boss Hog's PR propaganda ol' hillbilly gonna be here to tell ya how wrong his PR crap is...

Man, I just thought of somethin'... If I move to Carolina and living out from Charlotte where there ain't no mountains, will I still be a hillbilly??? Hmmmmmmmm??? That been buggin' me alot... No, not like them stinky bugs but buggin' me, non the less...

B~

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30 Sep 10 - 02:03 PM (#2996982)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Slag, I know exactly what you mean!!!!!
We ought to get together, somehow...Could be a blast!
By the way, what instrument(s), do you play, and stuff like that?..what musical tastes have you?
..and what part of the country do you live?

GfS

---

30 Sep 10 - 03:39 PM (#2997060)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

He's out there on the left coast, GfinS... Ya'llz outta get together seein' as yout wo is the only 2 righties livin' on the left coast...

Kilt me another couple hunert stinky bugs... I been thinkin' that maybe I shouldn't kill them but box 'um all up and send 'um tos FOX-PAC... They open that box o' bugs up an' maybe take their minds (minds???) off the mythology and give 'um somethin' real to worry about...

5 inches of rain right now... My pond, which has all but dried up is full and spillin' over the spill way... Hate to see what the driveway looks like down below... Oh well, got a day on the tractor to fix it tomorroew before tomorrow nights gig and then off to the Getaway to conspire with Amos... Maybe play alot of music, too...

B~

---

30 Sep 10 - 06:23 PM (#2997166)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

today 'cuase seems that ther are about couple thousand "stink bugs" hiding in everything they can in th barn...

Do you mean a true bug or a black beetle that sticks its hind end in the air?

Just curious.

---

30 Sep 10 - 06:38 PM (#2997176)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, pdq... The mid-Atlantic states are infested with "Chinese Stink Bugs... Nasty things, too...

Google up "stink bugs" and see what I mean...

B~

---

30 Sep 10 - 07:15 PM (#2997196)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

OK, I see it is a true bug, order Hemiptera.

Fire away! I hate 'em too. Use a "total release" aerosol bomb with pyrethrin or related organic pesticide. Inside a closed barn it will be prety effective. You can try to bum one from a professional exterminator if you can't find one for sale elsewhere.

I thought you might mean the "stink beetle" which is often called a "stink bug". The beetle, genus Eleodes, can live for years and they even have personality. I keep some for pets occasionally.

---

30 Sep 10 - 07:22 PM (#2997203)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Nope, Bobert, I'm not on the 'left coast'..I used to be though...a few years ago....

GfS

---

30 Sep 10 - 07:48 PM (#2997213)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, then... Looks like poor ol' Slag gonna have find some other folks to jam with...

Ahhhhh, I don't use no poisons on them stinky bugs, pdq... I been smackin' 'um with an old paint brush... Some take two smacks but most go out with one...

Nasty bugs... Looks as if they are gonna be a problem in the Virginia/Dc?mary land area for some time to come... Maybe forever seein' as nuthin, except a few bored cats, eat them...

B~

---

01 Oct 10 - 05:21 AM (#2997409)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Well Ggfs, if you dropped that first G or even the first and second g then I could PM you a little inside info. I know, you think it might sully your creds and maybe you can't afford the dues. Shucks, it only costs me $50 a month to be a member!

This probably signals the end of this troll trap but yup! I'm somewhere in Northern CA. I have two functioning guitars, one with wires one with nylon. I have a handful of harmonicas (which I love cause they're always in tune) and anything else I've attempted to play isn't worth mentioning. I noodle a lot and never play the same thing the same way twice. Some tunes I even recognize. I seem to have many talents but music isn't very high on the list. And it's odd too, because I have very musical forebearers and same so children.

---

01 Oct 10 - 09:09 AM (#2997496)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Looks as is the Tea Party candidate for New York's governorship has threatened to "take out" a reporter who asked him to provide sources that hos Dem opponent is having an affair???

This is what I have been talkin' about here, folk... Threatening to kill p[eople who do no agree with you ain't what this country is about... It's what the Taliban does...

B~

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01 Oct 10 - 09:40 AM (#2997513)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

Bobert,

You mean like the White House (former) chief of staff and HIS comments about what he would do to those who did not go along with what Obama wanted???? I think that "take out" were the words he used...

---

01 Oct 10 - 10:02 AM (#2997524)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Paladino is and always has been throughout his long and somewhat dubious money-making career an asshole and an absolute moron.

It is astonishing that anyone in New York with even pretentions to intelligence would consider turning State government over to this idiot.

No less amazing is that the regular Republican Party would endorse him;
the "Grand Old Party" has become the Party Of The Brain Dead.

---

01 Oct 10 - 10:41 AM (#2997553)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

So, bruce... Given the repeated threats of violence by the Tea Party against those with whom they disagree, your entire defense is built around one single asshole who is, at the very best, barely associated with the left???

Is that yer final answer???

I mean, you ain't bringin' a gun to the Getaway, are you???

B~

---

01 Oct 10 - 11:06 AM (#2997564)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Well Well Well. So far no one here believes the Tea Party is a terrorist organization.

Even Bobert won't come out and say it. He just plays cutesy little word games.

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01 Oct 10 - 11:10 AM (#2997569)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

"one single asshole who is, at the very best, barely associated with the left???
"


The leaving WH Cheif of staff for Obama is "at the very best, barely associated with the left??"


I think you need to look at what you just said- YOUR logic means that Obama is a terrorist, which even the Tea Party is not claiming.


I can bring one if you want- but I'd rather bring musical instruments.

I HAVE been told that my singing could be deadly, though.

---

01 Oct 10 - 11:15 AM (#2997571)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: beardedbruce

So, Bobert, YOUR claim that the Tea Party is terrorist is based on what? A SINGLE set of pictures of ONE person carrying a gun at one Tea Party event, out of HOW MANY attendees and HOW many events??

I thing the percentage of the Executive branch that has made threats against opponents is a bit higher than the percentage of Tea Party supporters.

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01 Oct 10 - 12:32 PM (#2997629)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Sawz & BB:

You're missing ( or simply ignoring? )a critical difference: Emanuel was joking & Paladino wasn't.

---

01 Oct 10 - 01:31 PM (#2997665)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Suddenly [Rahm] Emanuel grabbed his steak knife and, as those who were there remember it, shouted out the name of another enemy, lifted the knife, then brought it down with full force into the table.

''Dead!'' he screamed.

The group immediately joined in the cathartic release: ''Nat Landow! Dead! Cliff Jackson! Dead! Bill Schaefer! Dead!''

Today, Rahm Emanuel is [was], at 37, one of the most powerful people at the White House.

Does Rham Emanuel belong to a terrorist organization?

---

01 Oct 10 - 01:40 PM (#2997670)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Sawzaw, Are you sure you want to confuse them with actual FACTS???

GfS

---

01 Oct 10 - 01:44 PM (#2997674)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, eceryone knows Rahm's style... But it's just his style... I mean, lot's of folks go around sayin' stuff like, "If you eat that last slice of pir, I'll kill you"... That is a "figure of speech" that in no way meant to mean literally kill... Rahm, is a big ol' huffy puffy guy who brings that Chicgao style with him... I mean, his language is known to be "rough"... I really don't care for that kind of language myslef but when he says stuff, folks know how to take him...

I watched the New York guy last night and, given the circumstance, he was very convincing that he was prepared to kill this reporter feller... Now given the backdrop of the "reload" crap with the "2nd ammendment remedies" that the Tea Partyiers use routinely (not style) it does represent a serious problem with these people... Seems that the only qualification to win a primary as a Tea Bagger is to be seriouslly pissed off (at what ot whom, who knows sinnce they are always real vague) and be willing to threaten their opponents with shooting them...

B~

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01 Oct 10 - 01:51 PM (#2997678)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert, you're making stuff up again...I saw the tape, repeatedly. He never threatened to kill anyone...now did he? What he said could have meant several things even legally, too. I'm not a Paladino fan, or not...but stick to the actual events...and I think that a father, of a child, SHOULD be willing and able to protect their children, and that reporters don't need to be involving the children of candidates, to either smear a candidate, or sell papers. Leave the kids, alone!!

GfS

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01 Oct 10 - 02:23 PM (#2997697)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Sorry, Sawz- that wonderful Emanuel anecdote of yours - if true - dates from 1992.

Whatcha got from the last 18 years?

Squat?

I thought so.

The Tea-liban, Palladino et. al. are here and now.

---

01 Oct 10 - 02:35 PM (#2997705)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Greg F:Sorry, Sawz- that wonderful Emanuel anecdote of yours - if true - dates from 1992."

If its NOT true, does it still date back to 1992 ?????????

GfS

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01 Oct 10 - 04:14 PM (#2997749)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

So GFS, what IS this compulsion of yours to prove you're a prat?

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01 Oct 10 - 04:39 PM (#2997763)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Wow! Am I relieved to learn from Ertsbob that if terrorism and murder are your style, well then it passes lefty muster! Gee, guess I have been in the wrong party all along.

New strategy for the tea party. Cyanide capsules with the word "Democrat" printed on them. They will swallow anything with their label on it!

-Not a Terrorist Slag-
(It's just my style!)

---

01 Oct 10 - 04:58 PM (#2997772)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

Rahm's father was a member of the Irgun.

Paladino is mad at reporters because he's an angry guy. There was no justification for
his response. He could have clammed up which he should have and left the reporter.
He likes to fight, that's obvious.

Pugnacious politicians seem to command respect from some Americans. Their responses
are unhelpful to solving social problems or promoting meaningful dialogue. If you are a Republican today, there usually is no meaningful dialogue to take place. ("Don't bother me with the facts.") ("Don't challenge my godly way of thinking.")

Pugnacious behavior is not the same as being assertive in a reasonable way. This is what Obama should be doing with the Pentagon (See Woodward's book).

The words "terrorist" and "communist" in the minds of reactionary people mean the same thing. Is the Tea Party a Communist Organization?

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01 Oct 10 - 06:14 PM (#2997821)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

"If you come near my daughter's house, I'll take you out" is what Mr. Foul-temper said, GfinS... Not too sure where yer from but in these parts that meahns "kill" you... You know "take you out" of thr game of life...

But seein' as you have become one of the Tea Party apologists here I'm sure you thought that Paladino was talkin' about "taking the reporter out to supper"... Or maybe fir some hand-dipped ice cream...

Come on, GfinS... Get yer head outta that bad place it's in... I mean, seems that your are becoming more like Sawz every day and he has serious mental problems...

(Oh, there ya' go, Boberdz... Now GfinS gonna say you got mental problems...)

Like who don't know that's what she's gonna say??? Who cares... My head is on straight... I don't feel like I gotta defend anyone strictly based on what party they belong to... Seems GfinS got blinders on here with the Tea Party folks...

B~

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02 Oct 10 - 09:38 AM (#2998055)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Rahm's father was a member of the Irgun.

And that's relevent because?????? is he thus part of "The International Jewish Conspiracy"? or is he just"Acting Like A Jew"??

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02 Oct 10 - 11:04 AM (#2998104)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert's double standard: ''Dead!'' he screamed. "That is a "figure of speech" that in no way meant to mean literally kill."

"he was very convincing that he was prepared to kill this reporter feller." But he never said kill or dead or death.

Spin away Bobert, run damage control for Obama's former #1 man but there still ain't nobody here convinced that the Tea Party is a terrorist organization.

Even you are too chicken to say that you believe it yourself. The true mark of a blowhard.

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02 Oct 10 - 11:17 PM (#2998463)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Today the 'Fed' announced that it was going to devalue the dollar, by 10%...and that we should immediately feel the effects.

Told you.
We've been printing fiat money.
Actually, I'm expecting a total collapse of the United States economy, within about six months...not just because of this, but a lot more.

I hope I'm wrong!

GfS

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03 Oct 10 - 11:41 AM (#2998737)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Slag

Right on (ahem) Ggfs! What else can they do? I have posted elsewhere and years ago that the dates 1913. 1933. 1964 and 1982 will live in infamy. Only I'm not going to tell you why this time. You're going to have to figure it out yourselves.

OK, did your get it? When we left the precious metals standrd(s) we put ourselves in the same position as Argentina, Mexico, All third world countries and many others. The Government abdicated it's responsiblity to be the sole issuer and guardian of specie and exchange medium (but hey! When has the government been responsibile in the positive sense of the word? Huh?) and now they are monitizing the debt. That's national bankruptcy! Are ya feeling STIMULATED yet kiddies? This is change we can believe in, CHUMP CHANGE! And about half this nation desrves what's coming too. Take a look at that Parker Brothers certificate in your pocket. Baltic and Mediterranean Ave., here we come!

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03 Oct 10 - 12:02 PM (#2998750)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I suppose that after the elections, and everything comes crashing down, both sides will once again start blaming each other....instead of the real culprits!

It'll be interesting to see how they'll spin this one....in between the shit that will be flying. Folks, the agendas that I've been bitching about for about two years, on here, will have brought this nation down!
Like I said, and you probably thought I was only joking, better stock up on guitar strings!....Food as well....and learn to live like, well,..how about Albania?

Thank you, corrupted politicians! Thank you for the lies, thank you for not serving or representing the people. Thank you for your careers of taking us down, for your own profits. Thank you for sending all out work overseas. Thank you for your own secret economy. Thank you for not enforcing our borders, so your drug trade buddies could continue to send you pay-offs.....and of course, thank you for the 'Change'!

Good Question

GfS

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03 Oct 10 - 12:49 PM (#2998781)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

First off everything that is priced in dollars will go up 10% automatically.

But the value of your assets will be worth 10% less.

It will hurt the rich people the most. Instead of $10 million, they will have to scrape by on $9 million.

Poor people won't be hurt so much because instead of $10 thousand per year for example, they will still have $9 thousand to live off of.

Now that's what I call real wealth distribution.

Yayyyyyyy, the stimulus worked

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03 Oct 10 - 01:19 PM (#2998800)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh, Sawzaw, don't be silly....the poor can always get food stamps...just ask any socialist!..or Bobert!

GfS

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03 Oct 10 - 08:13 PM (#2999038)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Devaluing the dollar will make our goods and services cheaper and therefore take a bite out of our trade deficit... I know for the Lyndon RaRouche, gold standard, flat-earthers her this is a shock but had the fed not done this it would have been irresponsible... Especially seein' ast the US is puttin' so much pressure on China to get outta the currency-propping game...

Good on the Fed!!! Positive step in the right direction... That is, if they actually did it... I donno fir sure they did... Been at the Getaway and just gettin' home this evening and, as per usual, too beat from stayin' up late playin' music to read the Sunday Post I picked up on the way home...

B~

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03 Oct 10 - 09:50 PM (#2999074)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

My Lord, how backward can a fella' get?....No Bobert, prices go UP, coupled with increase of those taxes you love, your buying power (man hour to compensation), just went down!

GfS

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05 Oct 10 - 03:21 PM (#3000356)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Devaluing the dollar will make our goods and services cheaper [You are right about that part Bobert but only cheaper for foreingers paying with something other than dollars] and therefore take a bite out of our trade deficit" True but folks in the US will see higher prices cause it will take more of their dollars to buy the same stuff.

Like oil [gasoline]. oil is priced in dollars. The price of oil is an indicator of the value of the dollar. Same thing for gold.

If you were a farmer selling his wheat it would be worth more dollars because suddenly foreign people can buy it cheaper.

There is a whole industry called Forex where people like Boss Hogg Soros are buying and selling different currencies as they revalue and devalue. They can affect the values of the currencies and run a country's currency into the ground while they rake in billions.

average daily turnover in global foreign exchange markets is estimated at $3.98 trillion, as of April 2010

On Black Wednesday (September 16, 1992), Soros's fund sold short more than $10 billion worth of pounds sterling, profiting from the Bank of England's reluctance to either raise its interest rates to levels comparable to those of other European Exchange Rate Mechanism countries or to float its currency.

Finally, the Bank of England withdrew the currency from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, devaluing the pound sterling, and Soros earned an estimated US$ 1.1 billion in the process. He was dubbed "the man who broke the Bank of England." In 1997, the UK Treasury estimated the cost of Black Wednesday at £3.4 billion.

The Times of Monday, October 26, 1992, quoted Soros as saying: "Our total position by Black Wednesday had to be worth almost $10 billion. We planned to sell more than that. In fact, when Norman Lamont said just before the devaluation that he would borrow nearly $15 billion to defend sterling, we were amused because that was about how much we wanted to sell."

Stanley Druckenmiller, who traded under Soros, originally saw the weakness in the pound. "Soros' contribution was pushing him to take a gigantic position."

In 1997, during the Asian financial crisis, then Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir bin Mohamad accused Soros of using the wealth under his control to punish ASEAN for welcoming Myanmar as a member. Soros has denied Mahathir's accusations. The nominal US dollar GDP of ASEAN fell by US$9.2 billion in 1997 and $218.2 billion (31.7%) in 1998.

What is needed to cure the trade deficit is to start making things in the US again and tell the Chinese, up yours.

But ya got people that would rather spend $20 for a Chinese drill than $50 for an American made one. They will talk about buying American made stuff and supporting the Unions but when nobody is lookin' they slip on down to the Harbor Freight tool store.

---

05 Oct 10 - 07:58 PM (#3000582)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Both of you would benefit from a decent college Econ 201 course...

Perhaps rather tham just spew out Republican anti-obama, anti-government bullshit ya'll should check out:

http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed38.html

...and pay particular attention to the area on that report where it deals with the reasons from devaluation...

Now, I will asdmit that the first time devaluation was expalined to me in college I was thinking, "Huh?".... But I sat thru an hour long explanation and at the end of the hour I got it...

Of course, knowing the two of ya'll like I do ya'll prolly just default to "The Fed must go"... I fully expect that but the folks there know alot more about how currencies work than either of ya'llz... Or me, for that matter...

B~

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05 Oct 10 - 10:47 PM (#3000645)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

You could benefit from some facts. Got any? I even tried to agree with you when I could but forget that, your knee-jerk reaction is to turn it into a argument every time.

YES BOBERT IT WOULD TAKE A BITE OUT OF OUR TRADE DEFICIT. I AGREE with you on that.

Is that all it would do? All I see is a link to somewhere. Did you read it? Is there any downside? Yabetcha:

Effects of Devaluation [from Bobert's 1999 link]
A significant danger is that by increasing the price of imports and stimulating greater demand for domestic products, devaluation can aggravate inflation. If this happens, the government may have to raise interest rates to control inflation, but at the cost of slower economic growth.

Another risk of devaluation is psychological. To the extent that devaluation is viewed as a sign of economic weakness, the creditworthiness of the nation may be jeopardized. Thus, devaluation may dampen investor confidence in the country's economy and hurt the country's ability to secure foreign investment.

Another possible consequence is a round of successive devaluations. For instance, trading partners may become concerned that a devaluation might negatively affect their own export industries. Neighboring countries might devalue their own currencies to offset the effects of their trading partner's devaluation. Such "beggar thy neighbor" policies tend to exacerbate economic difficulties by creating instability in broader financial markets.

Since the 1930s, various international organizations such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) have been established to help nations coordinate their trade and foreign exchange policies and thereby avoid successive rounds of devaluation and retaliation. The 1976 revision of Article IV of the IMF charter encourages policymakers to avoid "manipulating exchange rates...to gain an unfair competitive advantage over other members." With this revision, the IMF also set forth each member nation's right to freely choose an exchange rate system.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Since the great depression the IMF has been advising against devaluation. Wonder why?

Is that what caused the Great Depression Bobert?

More here

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05 Oct 10 - 11:00 PM (#3000650)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

---

06 Oct 10 - 08:56 AM (#3000912)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

What you ***fail*** to realize, Sawz, is that a currency can be "revalued" after the "devaluation" has done what it is supposed to do... That is a major failing on yer part and shows hw little you understand "fixed rate" currencies as opposed to "floating currencies"...

Like I said... You need a college economics course so that your knowledge base will be large enough to see the entire picture...

Do you have any idea why the Feds have done this in the first place??? I do... Maybe you'd like to reread the entire link and try to figure out why this is a good thing for our economy... But then again, maybe you'd rather ignore the fact that we are competeing in a world economy and have to react to stuff that is negatively impacting our ability to compete (and create jobs)...

B~

---

06 Oct 10 - 02:47 PM (#3001180)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

As you can see it is a terror org.

http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/don/TEAPARTYLAND1.jpg

---

06 Oct 10 - 03:09 PM (#3001198)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Bobert, When I have given a econ 101 course or a 101 course on anything here, people complain that it is oversimplified.

Fundamentals however are essential...


The difference between conservative and progressive...

The COnservative believe that you are on your own. They believe that having the money from accomplishment or inheritence is the key to repondsibility for one's own needs and wants.

The PRogressives believe that we are all in this together. They believe that pooling our resources can afford to benefit the least of us with essential services that we can not afford or provide for ourselves.


If you are rich it is easy to side with conservatives since you can afford your own security force or even your own fire department. You might say "Why should I pay for some one else's needs?" They are either lazy or stupid. Tough as it may be Social Darwinism will weed out the defective people in our country by ignorance or starvation.


If you are not rich you would hope that there is a public land and a public good so that you can afford roads, services and essential needs. You would want less to be privatized. If everything is privatized, not only does a middle man take a huge slice of profit before the service is delivered but it always goes up in price.

---

06 Oct 10 - 08:31 PM (#3001436)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, Donuel, that is purdy much it except...

...that does not explain why so many undereducated people are prefectly willing to be whipped up into a lather to hate Dems and Obama when it's the Dems and Obama who have their best interests at heart???

B~

---

07 Oct 10 - 09:20 AM (#3001635)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

and conversely why the same morons embrace the Repubs & the Tea-Baggers who have been screwing them for years.

False class consciousness?

---

07 Oct 10 - 09:44 AM (#3001657)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Once again Bobert ignores the facts presented in his own link. The dangers of devaluation. And he refers to economics classes as a reason to ignore the dangers he brought into the discussion.

He takes an elitist stance "you cannot under stand this, it is way over your head and us progressives know what is best for the masses"

As per his article: "A significant danger is that by increasing the price of imports and stimulating greater demand for domestic products, devaluation can aggravate inflation. If this happens, the government may have to raise interest rates to control inflation, but at the cost of slower economic growth."

Now if that ie wrong, Bobert, if that is not a danger, why did you cite that article???

---

07 Oct 10 - 10:13 AM (#3001684)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Listen, Sawz... All you are doing is digging a deeper hole... You must think tyhis is like a couple hundred years ago... In this global economy if you are not willing to do what needs to be done in terms of "reality economics" then you are falt out not qualified to ***lead***... Period!!!

Stickin' yert dumbass head in the sand is not a responsible option... Shit doersn't just go away because you wish it would... The Fed is trying to create jobs... Guess you don't care about jobs??? Normal... The Repubs keep saying they are into job creation but fight every conventional way that a government can create jobs...

And please spare US that worn out mythology about tax cuts creating jobs 'cause that is a bogus argument... The Fortune 500 is sitting on piles of uninvetsed cash now ($1.7T has been reported) so giving them a bigger pile of uninvested cash ain't gonna do squat except take yet more money out of the economy...

Might of fact, Sawz... Me thinks you are clueless as to what goes into the GNP...

Like I have said before... You understanding of basic economics bears no resembelence to reality... You need to learn yerseff up on this stuff before exposing anymore of "Econ According to Sawz"...

Right now, seems tyhat all you are intent on doing here, other than demonstrating just how out of control you obsession is with me is showin' just how ignorant you are...

Have at it...

B~

---

07 Oct 10 - 10:42 AM (#3001695)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

BTW, ya'll... Talk about terrorism... Remember how you felt in the Fall 0f '08 with the economy corkscrewing toward the ground??? If we were to turn the economy over to the Tea Partiers with their very limited understanding of how things work in the ***real world*** those days would be looked on as the "good old days"...

I mean, we have Tea Party folks writing into the newspaper every week here in Page County, Va. and they are some very scarey people with some very simplistic answers to some very complex problems...

Cutting taxes and trying to cut the deficit is not posssible unless the government makes major cuts that, in themselves, would remove enough overall spending in the economy to cripple the country forever... I mean, how do you spell "failed state"???

The fortunate part of this is that Obama can veto any dumbass flat-earth laws that would be passed by a dumbass Congress catering to some very uneducated dumbass people...

B~

---

07 Oct 10 - 10:09 PM (#3002185)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Obama can veto any dumbass flat-earth laws that would be passed by a dumbass Congress catering to some very uneducated dumbass people."

He can but he don't. And it is lobbyists that the Congress is catering to. That's why his health care bill has only raised the cost of health care.

He says he has created jobs. People who don't have jobs disagree.

---

07 Oct 10 - 10:48 PM (#3002197)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Lobbiests!?!?!.... They wrote the entire Medicare perscription unfunded legislation word for word and then wee into the morning ordered their boys to break with Congressional rules to bully their people into voting for passage...

What you don't/can't/won't see there, Sawz, is that the progressive agenda is completely trumped by corporate money and has been for pushing 35 years...

And every year that goes on is another where the average workin' stiff is completely disrespected -that is if he/she is lucky (ha) enough to have a a fuckin' job working fir Boss Hog - and pushed further toward indentured slavery...

This is like, ahhhhhh, Boss Hog Heaven!!! Got one foot on workin' man's neck and the other on a pile of stolen cash...

Now we got all these John Galt's runnin' 'round the streets yellin' "Thunderdome" time... Ya'll slackin' folks who don't wanta work, die... I mean, wait until it is them that needs the government and then the government be their best friend...

Square business...

BTW, ya'll... Wonderin' where all that "2nd Ammendment remedies" crap done gone??? Hmmmmmmmmm??? I mean, kinda nice not to hear it but the scarey thing is that before the folks that know how ya gotta sound to get votes do the make-over ya' gotta wonder just how a PR make-over changes what people really believe???

B~

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07 Oct 10 - 11:02 PM (#3002204)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

So Lobbyists did not write the Health care reform bill? Is that what you are saying B?

I think Obama said lobbyists would not have any influence any more. That was one of the main reasons people voted for him. He was going to change things. Hope and change.

Did he change anything or was he just bullshitting us to get elected?

Saddest part is he had the vast majority of the people behind him. A majority in the House and Senate. Politically like minded cronies abounded.

I was hoping he would change things. I was willing to cut him some slack. I think we need a change.

And what the hell is Thunderdome? Where is it at?

---

08 Oct 10 - 08:18 AM (#3002389)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

A 35 year old terriby flawed economic/political system won't/can't be overhauled with one party hell bent on using every concievable trick to prevent the changes that are needed to create a new and workable system...

It is apparent tickle-down voodoo economics has been bad for out working'middle class as it's wages have been stagnant during the entire duration of Reagan's little experiement...

And if left in place, there is a very real possibility of seeing the country fall into something that resembles "Madd Max, After the Thunderdome"... Or into something advocated by Ayn Rand in "Atlas Shrugged" (refernce of John Galt)...

Google up "Mad Max, After then Thunderdome" and you'll get my drift...

BTW, change isn't continuing to move wealth to the rich... That is voodoo economics...

B~

---

08 Oct 10 - 08:41 AM (#3002403)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

BTW, this blind support for a failed economic system is "terrorism" in itself... Ask the folks who are seein' their American dfream run thru Boss Hog's dream-shredder... Lotta of that going on now with unprecidented evictions and foreclosures, homelessness, elderly folks having to take their adult children and their children in, poverty rates on the rise, etc., etc... Lots of different kinds of terrorism but this is one that the Tea Party has signed onto... That what I mean by "dupes" 'cause in the end most of the Tea Party folks will be victims of the failed system they are out beating the drum for continuing...

Go figure???

B~

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08 Oct 10 - 01:49 PM (#3002667)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Sorry but I am not basing my life on a movie or a figment of someone's paranoid imagination.

That is a scare tactic.

If we don't pass this stimulus bill, the unemployment rate will go over 8% That's a scare tactic.

"wages have been stagnant during the entire duration of Reagan's little experiement"

After analyzing the data from the U.S. Department of Commerce
Table A-3: Selected Measures of Household Income Dispersion: 1967 to 2003 pages 36-37 which can be seen here

I find the following average income decreases and increases:

Up by %5.54 during the Nixon / Ford administration

Down by %1.56 during the Carter administration

Up by %5.29 during the Reagan administration

Up by % .12 during the Bush I administration

Up by %6.92 during the Clinton administration

That is if I am adding up the percentiles wrong. Maybe someone could check my results. I could be wrong.

---

08 Oct 10 - 02:35 PM (#3002707)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

And you shouldn't, Sawz... But what we do need to at the very least think about how some every civilized societies ended with homes burning and people killin' one another...

"Those who don't know history tend to repeat it"... Voltaire...

Lotta truth to that and to poo-poo the reality that these things can happen is being an irresponsible participant in a democrarcy...

As for your stats, Sawz... Now go back and "index" them... That is if you know what that means...

B~

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08 Oct 10 - 02:59 PM (#3002727)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Did you index yours perfesser? Where is the information about "wages have been stagnant during the entire duration of Reagan's little experiement"

I produced mine. Where are yours?

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08 Oct 10 - 11:35 PM (#3003011)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"I don't want to present myself as some sort of singular figure. I think part of what's different are the times. I do think that for example the 1980 was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."

I agree.

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09 Oct 10 - 08:22 AM (#3003146)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Jus' a qucik note: leaving for Richmond Folk Festival now and then on to NC so ya'll gonna have to fight with Sawz until I get back on a pudder, whenever that is...

BTW, did you index yer numbers yet, Swaz???

Gotta go...

B~

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09 Oct 10 - 09:42 AM (#3003173)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

lest I be accused of not answering questions, no I did not index them.

I assume that means to index them to inflation. If my assumption is wrong, let me know.

However no one has provided any evidence to the contrary so they must be correct.

---

09 Oct 10 - 07:49 PM (#3003503)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Bobert on the road

No, Sawz... Most wage stats are tied to an index... Mostly inflation... If a guy gets a 2% raise, fir instance and the inflation rate fir the year is 4% then he's out 2% in purchasing power... This is what has occured since the early 80's... Okay, there may be some years where there were modest gains, after indexing... These weere mostly in the late 90s but they were, at best, very modest... If we look at the entire 30 year period we see that wages for the working class (indexed) have been stagnant...

Here the rub... If we look at household that are in the upper 10% they have done exceedingly well...

That may not be a problem fir you but it it is a major problem fro our economy... Yeah, I am sure that most people who are rich would love fir the economy to just bounce back and that the working class would do better... The problem is that these folks are not being asked to participate in the recovery... They weren't asked to ante up for a war that many of them profited from mightially... And now they are funneling unprecidented amount of cash annoomously to defeat those who might ask them to be good neighbors... In other words, these folks are "takers"... They really don't give a shit about thwe working class if it means the slightest inconvience for them... They are sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars in cold, hard cash they they won't even invest in their own country???

Maggots!!!

B~

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10 Oct 10 - 02:11 AM (#3003605)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

So where is the data that supports "wages have been stagnant during the entire duration of Reagan's little experiement"?

How did wages do under the Carter administration with 38.9% inflation? Remember stagflation?

If my numbers were correct that means income went down by 40.46% during the 4 Carter years,

Still looking for your indexed numbers or whatever you have. You do have some data tho backup your claims don't you?

Other wise my numbers must be right.

By the way I have never called you a dumb ass or stupid or anything except a person that makes claims and is unable to back them up with facts.

What do you call someone like that?

---

10 Oct 10 - 09:29 AM (#3003709)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Bobert on the road

Sorry, Sawz... But homey don't play yer narrow minded ball-games... I mean, I put up my sources then you bombard me with right winged blogs/lies and then next ting ya' know there is no longer any measningfull discussion but a war of right winged blogs and twisted stats coming from you... Sorry but I have a real like that isn't one that resmembles yer obsessive compulsive one...

BTW, iinteresting day in Richmomnd yesterday at the Richmond Folk Festival... Tens upon thousands of people who look one heck of alot like what "real America" looks like and then a pic on the front page of todays Richmond Times of the Tea Party Convention... The festival was a mix of cultures and races... The Tea Party pic??? More of the same old white people... Could have been a Klan rally, sans the sheets..

Gotta go...

B~

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10 Oct 10 - 11:27 AM (#3003757)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Richmond Times Dispatch:

Richmond, Va. --

Amid the Great Recession, passage of the federal stimulus package in February 2009 sparked a fire of discontent that spread rapidly across the country.

Fanned by bank bailouts and health-care legislation, what began as protests became a movement. Less than two years later, a federation of tea-party groups across the U.S. has become a potent political force united in distaste for taxes, big government, big spending, and the political elite.

"It's a mixture of conservative ideology, a return to founding principles, and this really vehement anti-establishment piece -- and all three of those strands have come together and given this its scope of power," said Daniel Palazzolo, a professor of political science at the University of Richmond.

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10 Oct 10 - 08:53 PM (#3004123)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Bobert, on the road...

No one ever said the Times-Dispatch had a clue... Their news department has always left a lot to be desired...

BTW, who bailed out the banks???

Oh, and for the record... Any comment from any poli-sci professor from U or R is going to be slanted toward the Repubs as U of R is Repub territory...

The Tea Party is a clueless batch of dupes bought and paid for... Nothin' more and nuhtin' less... I mean, you look at the pictures of them... They very much resemble the demographic makeup of the KKK...

B~

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09 Jan 11 - 09:41 AM (#3070528)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Cross hairs on a map of Dems to be defeated/assasinated...

Second amendment remedies...

Don't retreat, reload...

Organized goons terrorizing town meetings...

Guess after yesterday's events we have have a definitive answer and stopping the vote count can't change it...

B~

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09 Jan 11 - 01:03 PM (#3070650)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

Are the Tea Party a terrorist organisation? possibly.

Are the US and UK governments terorist organisations? Definitely!

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09 Jan 11 - 02:12 PM (#3070681)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

New post-Giffords bumper sticker:

Guns don't kill people
The Tea Party Kills People.

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14 Jan 11 - 07:43 PM (#3074803)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: mousethief

The Tea Party aren't terrorists, they're Robber Barons.

Mike Lee: Federal Child Labor Laws Are Unconstitutional (VIDEO)

Oh.
My.
God.

These people are unbelievable.

---

03 Mar 11 - 07:42 PM (#3106558)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: The Fooles Troupe

Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends

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04 Mar 11 - 04:04 PM (#3107066)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

The Tea Party is a concoction by the Koch-coction brothers. It's a "brown shirt" organization funded by corporate businessmen who want to keep the money they have
stolen from the tax-payer. (The Koch Brothers)

It is not a legitimate grass-roots movement although it pretends to be.

Packing heat is a method of intimidation but not different from the union-busting
scabs and goons by company reps in the past.

The Tea Party is a union-busting corporate sponsored organization that portends a
putsch-type takeover in Congress.

It is the extreme wing of the Republican Party.

---

04 Mar 11 - 04:13 PM (#3107072)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

Reagan was a tax and spend Republican. Today's Greedy Old Party wants to expand government to get into your bedroom and control women's bodies.

Republicans want to tax you for their goals and try to fool you that they are in favor
of cutting taxes. They are not in favor of cutting taxes for wealthy corporatists. They are not in favor of cutting taxes to support failed wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Republicans like taxes. Don't be fooled.

---

04 Mar 11 - 09:43 PM (#3107229)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??

You mean, like the 'Weathermen'???

GfS

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04 Mar 11 - 10:33 PM (#3107237)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, not like the Weatherman...

The Weather Underground was 70% into anti-war and split evenly 15% about civil rights and 15% miscellaneous...

I mean, I was there and part of it... Terrorism wasn't our bag, GfinS... But that is exactly what J. Edgar Hoover wanted people to think was our bag so he planted his boys who tried very hard to make it our bag but his plants stuck out like sore thumbs and we threw them out of groups from campus to campus all across the country... Every organizer I knew told me about the plants... I threw 3 of them out... I mean, these guys hadn't even had enough time to grow enough hair before trying to infiltrate... And all they wanted to do was talk about violence... We put 'um out... Most other chapters did, too...

One day I'd love to see a documentary done by an independent film company on the Weather Underground... I mean, while there are still folks who can testify to what was real and was is mythology... It would be very nice to have the real story told rather than anecdotal stuff that really had nothin' to do with "the movement"...

Square business... I was there and I know...

B~

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05 Mar 11 - 01:41 AM (#3107274)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "...I mean, I was there and part of it... Terrorism wasn't our bag, GfinS... But that is exactly what J. Edgar Hoover wanted people to think was our bag so he planted his boys who tried very hard to make it our bag but his plants stuck out like sore thumbs and we threw them out of groups from campus to campus all across the country... "


My first re-action was..... "W-H-A-T??????!!!!????"

But, instead, can you back up your post??...with facts??...verifiable??
That's fair, isn't it?

I will take an off topic, partisan rant, as a "No"....
So, give it a shot. I'll be open minded...because I remember the history, too...so let's compare notes...fair enough??

Regards,

GfS

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05 Mar 11 - 07:54 AM (#3107382)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I can only testify to what I was part of and what discussions took place at the various meetings I was part of which included one high level one with William Kuntsler and Jerry Rubin organizers from about 30 colleges and universities from the Mid Atlantic region which ocured at UVa... Or one with Abbie Hoffman and others and reps from organizations from all the SDS chapters in the east coast which was held at Temple in Philadelphia... Or another one that I attended with SDS, White Panther and Black Panthers at Ann Arbor, Michigan...

My memories are vivid (I know it was the 60s but I remember them well)...

That's why I suggested tan "independent film company", with no dog in the race, doing a documentary while folks like me and the folks who are still around can testify as to what was really going on... There has long been this mythology about what SDS, SOC, the Weathermen, Yippies, were all about... I mean, there is still a wealth of resources that still available... Another 10 years??? Probably not so...

I mean, I met John Sinclair about 5 years ago an' he ain't getting no younger... He alone has alot of the story to tell...

Anyway, I'll stand behind my statement that the Weathermen were about terrorism...

B~

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05 Mar 11 - 08:33 AM (#3107396)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

.....Appellant, Jerry Dale Lowe (Lowe), appeals his conviction and sentence for three violations of 18 U.S.C. Sec. 33 and one violation of 18 U.S.C. Sec. 924(c)(1). For reasons that follow, we affirm The events giving rise to Lowe's criminal prosecution occurred on July 22, 1993, at a picket line during a national strike by the United Mine Workers of America (UMWA)...

....As the vehicle driven by Kopplin approached the area where the pickets were waiting, his Ford Bronco was pelted by rocks, smashing the windshield. Hensley's vehicle suffered the same attack, with his windshield being broken. When York saw the rock attack, he initially slowed down and then sped up. As York was approaching the rock throwers, a bullet, fired from the creek side of Slab Fork Hollow Road from the area Lowe had positioned himself, entered the rear window of his pick-up truck, striking York in the head and killing him instantly. York's vehicle came to rest on the side of Slab Fork Hollow Road opposite the creek. The Chevrolet Club Cab's back passenger window was also struck by a bullet from the same area on the creek side of Slab Fork Hollow Road.

When Kopplin attempted to aid York, the pickets continued to throw rocks until Woods realized that York was seriously injured and told them to stop. At that time, the pickets complied. The pickets then began running in a direction away from the vehicle in which York lay dead.

Following the report of the shooting, the West Virginia State Police appeared at the scene with Corporal Bob Johnson (Johnson) taking the lead in the investigation. Statements were taken that night from a number of the miners who were present at the picket line. In his statement, Lowe admitted to participating in the rock attack, but specifically denied that he had been drinking.

The continuing investigation in the case revealed that the bullet that entered the back of York's head had a "left-hand twist," which immediately suggested to the officers that they were looking for a Colt-manufactured pistol. A Colt Trooper Mark III pistol was known to be a pistol that could produce a "left-hand twist" marking on a bullet. It was later learned that Lowe, on a day previous to the day York was killed, possessed a Colt Trooper Mark III pistol at the picket site, having transported it to the picket site in his truck. On two occasions during the investigation, Johnson and FBI Agent Brad Hoffert asked Lowe if he had ever owned, traded, or possessed a Colt Trooper pistol. On each occasion, Lowe denied owning, possessing, or trading such a pistol.....

More Here

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05 Mar 11 - 09:10 AM (#3107410)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: The Fooles Troupe

I have seen TV documentaries here in Australia some years ago about 'the Weathermen' with interviews with some of those 'in the movement' that backs up what Bobert has said.

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05 Mar 11 - 10:18 AM (#3107446)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Thank you, f-troupe... I'd love to see that video... I mean, I was in on a lot of planning sessions and one of the things we talked about over and over was the "FBI plants" who were trying to not only infiltrate to gather information but also to try to get people to do stupid stuff...

The 3 that I threw out of a meeting at VCU wanted to fire-bomb the house of Warren Brandt, who was VCU's president at the time... And they had a couple folks who were with them until cooler heads prevailed...
These agents were everywhere...

And...

...600!!!

B~

---

05 Mar 11 - 10:25 AM (#3107451)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Hello. This is Bernardine Dohrn.

I'm going to read A DECLARATION OF A STATE OF WAR.

This is the first communication from the Weatherman underground.

All over the world, people fighting Amerikan imperialism look to Amerika's youth to use our strategic position behind enemy lines to join forces in the destruction of the empire.

Black people have been fighting almost alone for years. We've known that our job is to lead white kids into armed revolution. We never intended to spend the next five or twenty-five years of our lives in jail. Ever since SDS became revolutionary, we've been trying to show how it is possible to overcome the frustration and impotence that comes from trying to reform this system. Kids know the lines are drawn revolution is touching all of our lives. Tens of thousands have learned that protest and marches don't do it. Revolutionary violence is the only way.

Now we are adapting the classic guerrilla strategy of the Viet Cong and the urban guerrilla strategy of the Tupamaros to our own situation here in the most technically advanced country in the world.

Ché taught us that "revolutionaries move like fish in the sea." The alienation and contempt that young people have for this country has created the ocean for this revolution.

The hundreds and thousands of young people who demonstrated in the Sixties against the war and for civil rights grew to hundreds of thousands in the past few weeks actively fighting Nixon's invasion of Cambodia and the attempted genocide against black people. The insanity of Amerikan "justice" has added to its list of atrocities six blacks killed in Augusta, two in Jackson and four white Kent State students, making thousands more into revolutionaries.

The parents of "privileged" kids have been saying for years that the revolution was a game for us. But the war and the racism of this society show that it is too fucked-up. We will never live peaceably under this system.

This was totally true of those who died in the New York townhouse explosion. The third person who was killed there was Terry Robbins, who led the first rebellion at Kent State less than two years ago.

The twelve Weathermen who were indicted for leading last October's riots in Chicago have never left the country. Terry is dead, Linda was captured by a pig informer, but the rest of us move freely in and out of every city and youth scene in this country. We're not hiding out but we're invisible.

There are several hundred members of the Weatherman underground and some of us face more years in jail than the fifty thousand deserters and draft dodgers now in Canada. Already many of them are coming back to join us in the underground or to return to the Man's army and tear it up from inside along with those who never left.

We fight in many ways. Dope is one of our weapons. The laws against marijuana mean that millions of us are outlaws long before we actually split. Guns and grass are united in the youth underground.

Freaks are revolutionaries and revolutionaries are freaks. If you want to find us, this is where we are. In every tribe, commune, dormitory, farmhouse, barracks and townhouse where kids are making love, smoking dope and loading guns fugitives from Amerikan justice are free to go.

For Diana Oughton, Ted Gold and Terry Robbins, and for all the revolutionaries who are still on the move here, there has been no question for a long time now we will never go back.

Within the next fourteen days we will attack a symbol or institution of Amerikan injustice. This is the way we celebrate the example of Eldridge Cleaver and H. Rap Brown and all black revolutionaries who first inspired us by their fight behind enemy lines for the liberation of their people.

Never again will they fight alone.

May 21, 1970

---

05 Mar 11 - 11:08 AM (#3107470)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Bernardine didn't speak for The Movement... She spoke for herself and a small group of folks who real a tad over-radicalized, or FBI plants... It was hard to tell sometimes...

Might of fact, tho I knew *of* her she never attended any of the organizational meetings that I attended... The three I mentioned were all biggies... The one in Philly was probably the largest of the entire decade with well ove4r 1000 people representing various SDS or SDS affiliates...

BTW, The Movement has for decades been characterized as violent but with the exception of a few incidents, given the number of demonstrations and events that were organized it was 99+% non-violent...

I mean, even the murder of Fred Hampton has been sanitized to protect cops who shot him to death as he slept!!! But in the minds of those who refuse to accept The Movement as non-violent in order tom justify the gestapo tactics that were used against it there was this big "shoot out"... Shooting a sleeping man does not quite constitutre a "shoot out"...

B~

---

05 Mar 11 - 12:13 PM (#3107510)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I'm still listening.....to BOTH sides....need more, and NOT just hearsay! Fair enough?

GfS

---

05 Mar 11 - 12:15 PM (#3107511)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Prarie Fire by

Bernadine Dorn
Jeff Jones
Billy Ayres
Celia Sojourn

We are Communist Women and Men

---

05 Mar 11 - 01:05 PM (#3107553)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Why not any of the Chicago 7 on that list, Sawz???

Or. Dr. Benjamin Spock...

Or Martin Luther King...

Or Ralph Abernathy...

Or Malcolm X...

Or Dick Gregory...

Or Emmett (Fred) Shorter...

Or Stokley Charmickle...

But, heck... Even if you take the list above and not cherry-pick their speeches and writings but present them as an entire body of work in the context of the 60s, you won't find any who's body of work would constitute terrorism...

There was extreme speech back then on both sides and aa lot of it has to be taken in the context of the times... If you weren't part of the 60s then it's difficult to understand alot of it... Just as if you were not part of Greenich Village in the 50's then you might not have a clue what Gregory Corso, Laurence Ferlingetti of Lenny Bruce waer talking about (okay, I'll admit that as hard as I tried I never got Corso)...

I mean, everything has to be taken in the context of the times...

As for "communists"... Yeah, in order to have the shock value and the negotiation power some folks did advocate publicly communism... I know that lots of my commune friends were all about "commun"ism and some are still out there living their own little brand today... But even that has to be taken in the context of the 60s...

I mean, the 60s was a war of ideas... And those within the Movement were as diverse as folks are today... It's not like The Movement was 100% all about ____________ or_____________.... It was about all the "isms"... It was about a sneseless war... It was about corrupt government... It was about romanticism (classically speaking) where we each had the power of self-actualization (Mazlo) within us... And it was no walk in the park for those of us in The Movement because we came up an "ism"istic society: racism, sexism, ageism... Those were hard to overcome because they were3 so ingrained into us... I had a very hard time with sexism... I mean, I was still being taken aside by strong women for these little chats as late as '70 when I finally got that one internalized and made the fundamental changes... And, no,
those chats were no fun but we "pulled each other up"... That was part of the entire consciousness raising that we all went thru... And some made it, some faked it and some never gave a shit bacause they thought it was all about smokin' weed, gettin' laid and loud music...

But I can see how someone who wasn't there could easily miss the entire lesson, story and now want to rewrite what it really was about...

I'm sure that others here know exactly what I am talking about and can maybe retell the same story with different words but the main thing that came out of it for those of us who bought in was that peace needed a chance...

B~

---

05 Mar 11 - 01:28 PM (#3107571)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

The only thing in my opinion that defines the Tea Party as a terrorist organization is that some of its members are packing heat to intimidate others. In this, they are like "Operation Rescue", an Orwellian title if there ever was one.


Otherwise, they are really stooges for the Koch Brothers and the Chamber of Commerce.

The use of labels such as Communist or Terrorist have always been thrown around to intimidate others. It's the weapon of smear merchants.

The 60's were pretty much about the Vietnam War as B says. Now it's time to question
the foreign policy toward Iraq and Afghanistan (not to mention Pakistan and Yemen)
and tie that into the so-called deficit. Reduce money for the "wars" and raise taxes on the rich and problem solved.

I hate to mention this though it could come true is that the only presidential candidate the Rethugs have that could beat Obama is Ron Paul. Libertarianism is a political disease that has infected conservative America. It drives the Tea Party with Rove and Norquist behind the scenes.

In the meantime, The Tea Party has little to do with the historical episode in Boston Harbor where the "Indians" were protesting against the corporate East India Tea Company.

---

05 Mar 11 - 01:36 PM (#3107575)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Exactly, Strings...

"2nd amendment remedies" were not at all part of The Movement... The movement was a war of ideas, not a war of bullets... The right wing cannot fight a war of ideas because it loses those so it sidesteps those, uses propaganda (lies v. ideas) and threats of violence...

If anything the Tea Party Movement is the exact opposite of The Movement... 180 degrees different...

B~

---

05 Mar 11 - 01:54 PM (#3107591)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

For ALL those 'ballyhooing' about the Koch Bros. and their funding of the 'opposition', I think it would be wise to consider George Soros, and what he funds...unless partisan bullshit is OK with a double standard!!!! Note: That I, too, very much disagreed, along with a lot of you about the Supreme Court's decision about campaign contributions from large corporations, blocs which, of course, means unions as well... but some of you are changing your tune. To those, maybe you can get into 'disco' and still claim to be folk and bluegrass, and blues players.
Sorry, to have to point out the obvious, AGAIN, as to some of your partisan double stands...but there it is, again!

GfS

---

05 Mar 11 - 02:21 PM (#3107609)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The problem here, GfinS, is that when it comes to the actual $$$ going to the Dems v. Repubs since the "Citizens United" ruling that for every dollar going to the Dems, 5 go to the Repubs...

I'm not excusing Soros... I'd like to see all corporate $$$ out of politics... And no "rangers" or whatevers that fleece/bully workers to contribute... This is a terrible way to try to run a democracy... Bring back a "Fairness Doctrine" and "debates" and "documentaries" and take the $$$ and propaganda outta politics...

But right now, the Repubs are winning the $$$ grab in a big way... No contest!!!

BTW, the so-called financial crisis in Wisconsin has been fabricated... Scott Walker came into office with a $100M surplus which he turned around and ***gave*** (as in welfare) to corporations (trusty Repub donors) in tax breaks and subsidies... If he hadn't done that then no crisis... Same game as Bush... Surpluses turned over to Boss Hog???

You may think that tyhje Dems and the Repubs are alike but the Dems have been much better stewards of the tax payer's $$$ for a long time now...

B~

---

05 Mar 11 - 02:59 PM (#3107634)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Dohrn was a principal signatory on the group's "Declaration of a State of War" in 1970 that formally declared "war" on the U.S. Government, and completed the group's transformation from political advocacy to violent action. Dohrn also co-wrote and published the subversive manifesto Prairie Fire in 1974, and participated in the covertly filmed Underground in 1976.

---

05 Mar 11 - 03:24 PM (#3107652)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Clinton ran deficits throught all 8 years of his term, and one can go to the US Treasury Department and looking through the history of the total outstanding debt through Clintons term.

Every year Clinton was in office, the total national debt continued to climb.

How Clinton managed to claim a surplus was that while the general operating budgets ran deficits but Clinton borrowed from numerous off budget funds to make the on budget fund a surplus.

For example, in 2000, Clinton claimed a $230B surplus, but Clinton borrowed
$152.3B from Social Security
$30.9B from Civil Service Retirement Fund
$18.5B from Federal Supplementary Medical insurance Trust Fund
$15.0B from Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund
$9.0B from the Federal Unemployment Trust Fund
$8.2B from Military Retirement Fund
$3.8B from Transportation Trust Funds
$1.8B from Employee Life Insurance & Retirement fund
$7.0B from others

Total borrowed from off budget funds $246.5B, meaning that his $230B surplus is actually a $16.5B deficit.
($246.5B borrowed - $230B claimed surplus = $16.5B actual deficit).

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_surplus_did_the_US_have_when_Clinton_left_office#ixzz1Fl6APO6q

---

05 Mar 11 - 04:32 PM (#3107687)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: TIA

Horsepucky

The charts you need to analyze Sawz are here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Debt_Trend.svg

here

http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html

here

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html


Then let's talk deficits and debt.

---

05 Mar 11 - 05:56 PM (#3107748)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Won't matter, TIA 'cause the Repubs are hell-bent on only cumulative deficits rather than annual budgetary deficits... That's where they want to keep the discussion because, yeah, the cumulative deficit hiders the facts that they don't want people to know and that is the last 3 presidents who actually cut annual budget deficits were Carter, Clinton and Obama!!! No Repub has done it in 30 years...

BTW, before Saws gets on his high horse about Obama here's the facts which are readily verifiable...

Bush's last budget was the '09 budget... That's the way our system works... The outgoing president the incoming one with a budget in place...

Bush's last annual budget deficit was $1.4T...

Obama's first budget was the '10 budget and it came in with an annual deficit of $1.3T...

That means that Obama cut $100B in annual defict with his fgirst budget...

But righties and repubs don't want anyone to look at it that way because it doesn't fit their revisionist mythology...

Normal...

B~

---

05 Mar 11 - 06:49 PM (#3107788)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

National Debt

---

05 Mar 11 - 06:59 PM (#3107793)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

See page 14

---

05 Mar 11 - 08:00 PM (#3107816)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: The Fooles Troupe

"The 3 that I threw out of a meeting at VCU wanted to fire-bomb the house of Warren Brandt, who was VCU's president at the time"

You should have reported such people to the FBI ... :-) of course that would 'confirm' that you were a member ....

---

05 Mar 11 - 09:43 PM (#3107843)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

1969
    * June 18-22 - Students for a Democratic Society SDS National Convention held in Chicago, Illinois. Publication of "Weatherman" founding statement. Members seize control of SDS National Office.
    * July - Members Bernardine Dohrn, Eleanor Raskin, Dianne Donghi, Peter Clapp, David Millstone and Diana Oughton travel to Cuba and meet representatives of the North Vietnamese and Cuban governments.
    * August - Weatherman member Linda Sue Evans travels to North Vietnam. Weatherman activists meet in Cleveland, Ohio, in preparation for "Days of Rage" protests scheduled for October, 1969 in Chicago.
    * September 3 - Female members participate in a "jailbreak" at South Hills High School in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where they run through the school shouting anti-war slogans and distributing literature promoting the "National Action." The term "Pittsburgh 26" refers to the 26 women arrested in connection with this incident.
    * September 24 - A group of members confront Chicago Police during a demonstration supporting the "National Action," and protesting the commencement of the Chicago Eight trial stemming from the 1968 Democratic National Convention.
    * October 5 - The Haymarket Police Statue in Chicago is bombed; Weathermen later claim credit for the bombing in their book, Prairie Fire.
    * October 8-11 - The "Days of Rage" riots occur in Chicago, damaging a large amount of property. 287 Weatherman members are arrested, some become fugitives when they fail to appear for trial in connection with their arrests.
    * November 8th - Sniper attack on Cambridge Police Station. Two shots were fired. Two Weathermen, James Kilpatrick and James Reaves, were indicted and then subsequently released when a witness recanted his testimony.
    * November-December - Karen Ashley and Phoebe Hirsch were among the few Weatherman members to join the first contingent of the Venceremos Brigade (VB) that departs for Cuba to harvest sugar cane.
    * December 6 - Bombing of several Chicago police cars parked in a precinct parking lot at 3600 North Halsted Street, Chicago. The WUO claims responsibility in Prairie Fire, stating it is a protest of the fatal police shooting of Illinois Black Panther Party leaders Fred Hampton and Mark Clark on December 4, 1969.
    * December 27-30 - Weathermen hold a "War Council" in Flint, Michigan, where plans are finalized to change into an underground organization that will commit strategic acts of sabotage against the government. Thereafter they are called "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO).
1970
    * January - Silas and Judith Bissell placed a home-made bomb under the steps of the R.O.T.C. building. The bomb was made from an electric blasting cap, an alarm clock, a battery and a plastic bag filled with gasoline and explosives.
    * February - The WUO closes the SDS National Office in Chicago, concluding the major campus-based organization of the 1960s. The first contingent of the VB returns from Cuba and the second contingent departs. By mid-February the bulk of the leading WUO members go underground.
    * February 16: A bomb is detonated at the Golden Gate Park branch of the San Francisco Police Department, killing one officer and injuring a number of other policemen (one seriously). No organization claims credit for either bombing. (See San Francisco Police Department Park Station bombing.)
    * On February 21, the house of Judge Murtagh, who presides over the Panther 21 trial, is fire-bombed by a WUO cell in New York City. The same night, molotov cocktails were thrown at a police car in Manhattan and two military recruiting stations in Brooklyn.
    * March - Warrants are issued for several WUO members, who become federal fugitives when they fail to appear for trial in Chicago.
    * March 6 - WUO members Theodore Gold, Diana Oughton, and Terry Robbins are killed in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, when a nailbomb they were constructing detonates. The bomb was intended to be planted at a non-commissioned officer's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey.
    * March 30 - Chicago police discover a WUO "bomb factory" on Chicago's north side.
    * April 1 - Based on a tip Chicago Police find 59 sticks of dynamite, ammunition, and nitro glyerine in an apartment traced to WUO members. The discover of the WUO weapons cache ends WUO activity in this city.
    * April 2 - A federal grand jury in Chicago returns a number of indictments charging WUO members with violation of federal anti-riot laws. Also, a number of additional federal warrants charging "unlawful flight to avoid prosecution" are returned in Chicago based on the failure of WUO members to appear for trial in local cases. (The Anti-riot Law charges were later dropped in January, 1974.)
    * April 15 - The FBI arrests WUO members Linda Sue Evans and Dianne Donghi in New York with the help of WUO infiltrator, Larry Grathwohl.
    * May 10 - The National Guard Association building in Washington, D.C. is bombed.
    * May 21 - The WUO releases its "Declaration of a State of War" communique under Bernardine Dohrn's name.
    * June 6 - In a letter, the WUO claims credit for bombing of the San Francisco Hall of Justice, although no explosion has occurred. Months later, workmen locate an unexploded bomb.
    * June 9 - The New York City Police headquarters is bombed by Jane Alpert and accomplices. Weathermen state this is in response to "police repression." The bomb made with ten sticks of dynamite exploded in the NYC Police Headquarters. The explosion was preceded by a warning about six minutes prior to the detonation and subsequently by a WUO claim of responsibility.
    * July 23 - A federal grand jury in Detroit, Michigan, returns indictments against thirteen WUO members and former WUO members charging violations of various explosives and firearms laws. (These indictments were later dropped in October, 1973.)
    * July 25 - The United States Army base at The Presidio in San Francisco is bombed on the 11th anniversary of the Cuban Revolution. On the same day, a branch of the Bank of America is bombed in New York.
    * July 28 - Bank of America HQ in NYC is bombed around 3:50 AM. WUO claims responsibility.
    * September 15 - The WUO helps Dr. Timothy Leary escape from the California Men's Colony prison.
    * October 8 - Bombing of Marin County courthouse. WUO states this is in retaliation for the killings of Jonathan Jackson, William Christmas, and James McClain
    * October 10 - A Queens traffic-court building is bombed. WUO claims this is to express support for the New York prison riots.
    * October 11 - A Courthouse in Long Island City, NY is bombed. An estimated 8 to 10 sticks of dynamite are used. A warning was given around 10 min. prior to the 1:23 AM blast by the WUO.
    * October 12 - Around October 12 eight bomb explosions occur, Five in Rochester New York, Two in NYC, and One in Orlando FL. Despite WUO bomb warnings three persons are injured.
    * October 14 - The Harvard Center for International Affairs is bombed by The Proud Eagle Tribe of Weather (later renamed the Women's Brigade of the Weather Underground). WUO claims this is to protest the war in Vietnam. The bombing was in reaction to Angela Davis' arrest and was the first action undertaken by an all-women's unit of WUO.
    * October - Bernardine Dohrn, Katherine Ann Power, and Susan Edith Saxe were put on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List
    * December - Fugitive WUO member Caroline Tanker, who fled the country for Cuba, is arrested by the FBI in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
    * December 5th - Five Weatherman are captured for trying to bomb First National City Bank of NY and other buildings on the anniversary of the death of Fred Hampton. These individuals subsequently plead guilty.
    * December 11th - Vivian Bogart and Patricia Mclean from the WUO are arrested after throwing an incendiary bomb at the Royal National Bank in NYC around 1:30 AM.
    * December 16 - Fugitive WUO member Judith Alice Clark is arrested on the Days of Rage indictments by the FBI in New York.]

---

05 Mar 11 - 09:45 PM (#3107846)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

1969
    * June 18-22 - Students for a Democratic Society SDS National Convention held in Chicago, Illinois. Publication of "Weatherman" founding statement. Members seize control of SDS National Office.
    * July - Members Bernardine Dohrn, Eleanor Raskin, Dianne Donghi, Peter Clapp, David Millstone and Diana Oughton travel to Cuba and meet representatives of the North Vietnamese and Cuban governments.
    * August - Weatherman member Linda Sue Evans travels to North Vietnam. Weatherman activists meet in Cleveland, Ohio, in preparation for "Days of Rage" protests scheduled for October, 1969 in Chicago.
    * September 3 - Female members participate in a "jailbreak" at South Hills High School in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where they run through the school shouting anti-war slogans and distributing literature promoting the "National Action." The term "Pittsburgh 26" refers to the 26 women arrested in connection with this incident.
    * September 24 - A group of members confront Chicago Police during a demonstration supporting the "National Action," and protesting the commencement of the Chicago Eight trial stemming from the 1968 Democratic National Convention.
    * October 5 - The Haymarket Police Statue in Chicago is bombed; Weathermen later claim credit for the bombing in their book, Prairie Fire.
    * October 8-11 - The "Days of Rage" riots occur in Chicago, damaging a large amount of property. 287 Weatherman members are arrested, some become fugitives when they fail to appear for trial in connection with their arrests.
    * November 8th - Sniper attack on Cambridge Police Station. Two shots were fired. Two Weathermen, James Kilpatrick and James Reaves, were indicted and then subsequently released when a witness recanted his testimony.
    * November-December - Karen Ashley and Phoebe Hirsch were among the few Weatherman members to join the first contingent of the Venceremos Brigade (VB) that departs for Cuba to harvest sugar cane.
    * December 6 - Bombing of several Chicago police cars parked in a precinct parking lot at 3600 North Halsted Street, Chicago. The WUO claims responsibility in Prairie Fire, stating it is a protest of the fatal police shooting of Illinois Black Panther Party leaders Fred Hampton and Mark Clark on December 4, 1969.
    * December 27-30 - Weathermen hold a "War Council" in Flint, Michigan, where plans are finalized to change into an underground organization that will commit strategic acts of sabotage against the government. Thereafter they are called "Weather Underground Organization" (WUO).
1970
    * January - Silas and Judith Bissell placed a home-made bomb under the steps of the R.O.T.C. building. The bomb was made from an electric blasting cap, an alarm clock, a battery and a plastic bag filled with gasoline and explosives.
    * February - The WUO closes the SDS National Office in Chicago, concluding the major campus-based organization of the 1960s. The first contingent of the VB returns from Cuba and the second contingent departs. By mid-February the bulk of the leading WUO members go underground.
    * February 16: A bomb is detonated at the Golden Gate Park branch of the San Francisco Police Department, killing one officer and injuring a number of other policemen (one seriously). No organization claims credit for either bombing. (See San Francisco Police Department Park Station bombing.)
    * On February 21, the house of Judge Murtagh, who presides over the Panther 21 trial, is fire-bombed by a WUO cell in New York City. The same night, molotov cocktails were thrown at a police car in Manhattan and two military recruiting stations in Brooklyn.
    * March - Warrants are issued for several WUO members, who become federal fugitives when they fail to appear for trial in Chicago.
    * March 6 - WUO members Theodore Gold, Diana Oughton, and Terry Robbins are killed in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, when a nailbomb they were constructing detonates. The bomb was intended to be planted at a non-commissioned officer's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey.
    * March 30 - Chicago police discover a WUO "bomb factory" on Chicago's north side.
    * April 1 - Based on a tip Chicago Police find 59 sticks of dynamite, ammunition, and nitro glyerine in an apartment traced to WUO members. The discover of the WUO weapons cache ends WUO activity in this city.
    * April 2 - A federal grand jury in Chicago returns a number of indictments charging WUO members with violation of federal anti-riot laws. Also, a number of additional federal warrants charging "unlawful flight to avoid prosecution" are returned in Chicago based on the failure of WUO members to appear for trial in local cases. (The Anti-riot Law charges were later dropped in January, 1974.)
    * April 15 - The FBI arrests WUO members Linda Sue Evans and Dianne Donghi in New York with the help of WUO infiltrator, Larry Grathwohl.
    * May 10 - The National Guard Association building in Washington, D.C. is bombed.
    * May 21 - The WUO releases its "Declaration of a State of War" communique under Bernardine Dohrn's name.
    * June 6 - In a letter, the WUO claims credit for bombing of the San Francisco Hall of Justice, although no explosion has occurred. Months later, workmen locate an unexploded bomb.
    * June 9 - The New York City Police headquarters is bombed by Jane Alpert and accomplices. Weathermen state this is in response to "police repression." The bomb made with ten sticks of dynamite exploded in the NYC Police Headquarters. The explosion was preceded by a warning about six minutes prior to the detonation and subsequently by a WUO claim of responsibility.
    * July 23 - A federal grand jury in Detroit, Michigan, returns indictments against thirteen WUO members and former WUO members charging violations of various explosives and firearms laws. (These indictments were later dropped in October, 1973.)
    * July 25 - The United States Army base at The Presidio in San Francisco is bombed on the 11th anniversary of the Cuban Revolution. On the same day, a branch of the Bank of America is bombed in New York.
    * July 28 - Bank of America HQ in NYC is bombed around 3:50 AM. WUO claims responsibility.
    * September 15 - The WUO helps Dr. Timothy Leary escape from the California Men's Colony prison.
    * October 8 - Bombing of Marin County courthouse. WUO states this is in retaliation for the killings of Jonathan Jackson, William Christmas, and James McClain
    * October 10 - A Queens traffic-court building is bombed. WUO claims this is to express support for the New York prison riots.
    * October 11 - A Courthouse in Long Island City, NY is bombed. An estimated 8 to 10 sticks of dynamite are used. A warning was given around 10 min. prior to the 1:23 AM blast by the WUO.
    * October 12 - Around October 12 eight bomb explosions occur, Five in Rochester New York, Two in NYC, and One in Orlando FL. Despite WUO bomb warnings three persons are injured.
    * October 14 - The Harvard Center for International Affairs is bombed by The Proud Eagle Tribe of Weather (later renamed the Women's Brigade of the Weather Underground). WUO claims this is to protest the war in Vietnam. The bombing was in reaction to Angela Davis' arrest and was the first action undertaken by an all-women's unit of WUO.
    * October - Bernardine Dohrn, Katherine Ann Power, and Susan Edith Saxe were put on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List
    * December - Fugitive WUO member Caroline Tanker, who fled the country for Cuba, is arrested by the FBI in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
    * December 5th - Five Weatherman are captured for trying to bomb First National City Bank of NY and other buildings on the anniversary of the death of Fred Hampton. These individuals subsequently plead guilty.
    * December 11th - Vivian Bogart and Patricia Mclean from the WUO are arrested after throwing an incendiary bomb at the Royal National Bank in NYC around 1:30 AM.
    * December 16 - Fugitive WUO member Judith Alice Clark is arrested on the Days of Rage indictments by the FBI in New York.]

---

05 Mar 11 - 09:46 PM (#3107847)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Heck, F-troupe... The FBI knew all about me... They prolly have a hundred pictures of me which I'd like to have 'cause I had some nice dark hair back then and lots of it... Hey, we had two FBI guys who made no bones about who they were... I mean, they'd ask me questions about stuff... You, dumb stuff, like "What time is that demonstartion??? Are you gonna set up a PA???" Like who cared??? There's a picture of me in the Richmond Chronicle talkin' with them about an event... Wish I had a copy of that one... No big thing... Sometimes they'd just show up at my flat and ask me dumb questions??? Couple of losers...

BTW, Saws... The stuff yhou put up is exactly the stuff I said you'd put up...

No matter...

B~

---

05 Mar 11 - 10:30 PM (#3107856)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I'm still listening to BOTH sides, because if Bobert's claim was right, OK..but Bobert, and F-Toupee, could you please come up with something to substantiate your claims...besides, "BTW, Saws... The stuff yhou put up is exactly the stuff I said you'd put up...".. with something a little more than rhetoric.

As it is, right now, Sawzaw, is putting forth a far more convincing case.

Oh, and Tia's links, were more what I had in mind, as so far as presenting the 'other' side...but that was for the debt, and what I was inquiring about were the 'Weathermen'....you know, that group who rose to some notoriety, while protesting the Administration of LBJ (D-Texas), and his policies....even though they spanned a couple of administrations.

So come on, give it your best shot. I'm all ears(or eyes, as the case may be).

GfS

---

05 Mar 11 - 11:30 PM (#3107884)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: The Fooles Troupe

Insane Man - the is no "F-Toupee" in this discussion.

---

05 Mar 11 - 11:32 PM (#3107886)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: The Fooles Troupe

"Weatherman member Linda Sue Evans travels to North Vietnam. "

WoW! This is really 'militant' stuff - Those who said 'get out of Vietnam' WON, remember? :-)

---

06 Mar 11 - 12:22 AM (#3107897)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

F-Guy: "WoW! This is really 'militant' stuff - Those who said 'get out of Vietnam' WON, remember? :-)"

And according to Russian documents, when the country broke up, we would have 'won'(?), had the war gone on, just one more week...Then, we could still be importing all that 'China White' from the 'Golden Triangle'..which is one huge reason the 'war' dragged on so long!
Not to worry, I was opposed to that bullshit...all of it!..and thought LBJ was a piece of shit, along with it!

GfS

---

06 Mar 11 - 09:15 AM (#3108044)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

First of all, there was absolutely no way for the US to have won militarily in Vietnam... A lot of people think this was a war strictly between North and South Vietnam... That is revisionistic mythology... Reality was that it was a lot more than that... After President Diem was assassinated by our CIA South Vietnam broke into civil war and the more the US tried to stop it the worse it got... How could the US ever defeated the Viet Cong??? Well, they couldn't have... That was the lesson that we should have learned... Most military scholars understand that... The POW-MIA grunts who are now in their 60s and riding their Harleys to DC every Memorial Day can't bring themselves to let the loss be... So they fight and fight and fight and will die fighting because we, as a nation, never laid Vietnam to rest... But the military scholars know that a war such a Vietnam, where half the population can by day live among you and at night become gorilla fighters against the existing puppet government and occupiers, can never be won...

I mean, we bombed Laos and Cambodia to pieces trying to stop men and material coming south on the Ho Chi Min Trail and reality was that, as in any war, logistics of getting material and men to the battle is the hardest part, the bombing never interrupted the supply... I mean, look at the number of fully supplied North Vietnamese and Viet Cong there were in Saigon as we tried to evacuate the last of the South Vietnamese who had been faithful to *US*...

No, quite the opposite... Most military historians understand exactly why Vietnam was unwinnable...

But, of course, we do have the conspiracy theorists who are playing to the emotions of the folks who have not, and cannot, square what they they were involved with... I understand that... No one can square it, regardless of one's history... We anti-war folks can't square it either... Our entire generation will die without Vietnam even being resolved... But that's the emotional side which has nothing to do with...

...the military ***science*** side...

I mean, there are reason why we are hearing wise old military men who understand the ***science*** of war warning *US* not to get sucked into Lybia... I've heard two this week make reference to Vietnam... I think that should set aside the conspiracy theories that the US was one week away from winning in Vietnam... These men learned the lessons from Vietnam...

But seein' as the conspiracy theorists have put together their mythology package for consumption there is really no reason to re-fight a war that military scientists use as an example of the kind of war that cannot be won so I'll just side with the older and wiser men who weren't the grunts and have a different perspective...

The debate really cannot ever be won because certain people will believe whatever they want regardless of the merits of their beliefs and, hey, if the POW-MIAers want/need to believe that the war could have been won, then that's what they are going to believe...

So, GfinS, if you are waiting expecting me to deliver that last bit of Evidence then you'll be waiting a long time but we were told over and over during the war that victory was right around the corner... Richard Nixon won in 1968 partly because he had a "secret plan" to win the war... The war went another 7 long years... In all we were in Vietnam from 1959 to 1975 in some capacity and from 1965 to 1975 engaged in a "hot war"... That made fir 16 years and so if folks need/want to think another week would have made the difference, then, hey, let 'um...

There are people who strongly believe that the moon landing was staged in the Majave Desert???

I mean, what more can I say???

B~

---

06 Mar 11 - 09:44 AM (#3108055)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Addition:

Oh, one very important that I left out of my last post concerns that all important logistical aspect of the war involving supplies... Vietnam was the signature "Cold War" proxy war between the US and the USSR/China... This is the part that the military scientists use in teaching... Because of the geography it was relatively easy for both the Russians and the Chinese to re-supply the National Liberation Front (NLF) via North Vietnam since the US had no way of cutting those land supply routes... If supplies had to come in boats then from strictly a logistics side it would have been easier tho given the fact that South Vietnam was involved in a "hot civil war" within itself wouldn't have changed anything...

B~

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06 Mar 11 - 09:36 PM (#3108581)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

The war could have been won with the use of nuclear weapons and without the meddling of those infernal bastards in Washington. Maybe it's a good thing it wasn't.

---

07 Mar 11 - 08:26 AM (#3108864)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I couldn't get my pudder to play but the 1st minute an 30 seconds but I'm assuming it got around to the million$$$ that the Koch brothers threw into the mix to hire "community organizers", rent offices, etc...

Oh, and I'm sure it gota round to Doick Aremy's "Freedom Works", his lobbyist firm and the millions$$$ thnat the health insurance and pharma funneled to the Tea Party to hire more "community" organizers, rent more offices, rent buses, etc...

Grass roots, my butt...

Because of the corrupt campaign finance laws it's impossible to ever know how much $$$ the Tea Party cost the rich but if you throw in FOX's "in kind" contributions I'd dare say that we're not looking at just hundreds of millions$$$ but billion$$$...

Tell ya'll what... If I had that money to mount a campaign I could get a hundred leftie radicals elected to the House of Reps because our government is "the best that money can buy"...

B~

---

07 Mar 11 - 09:46 AM (#3108905)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

...we would have 'won'(?), had the war gone on, just one more week...

Talk about 'divorced from reality'.... maybe it really IS GuestInsanity.

---

07 Mar 11 - 09:58 AM (#3108911)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh, you want to keep spending money...for BULLSHIT....check this out!
Reason for all the 'urgent spending, including 'stimulous'. BOTH administrations

There's more..check them out!

GfS

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07 Mar 11 - 10:14 AM (#3108922)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Columnist Sebastian Mallaby of the Washington Post reacted sharply to Perkins' book: "This man is a frothing conspiracy theorist, a vainglorious peddler of nonsense, and yet his book, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, is a runaway bestseller." Mallaby, who spent 13 years writing for the London Economist ... holds that Perkins' conception of international finance is "largely a dream" and that his "basic contentions are flat wrong."

---

07 Mar 11 - 10:22 AM (#3108925)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Have you read John Perkin's the book, GfinS???

It explains exactly what I just talked about with the bigh corporations using billion$$$ to by influence...

John has long been a darlin' of the left... He's been on both NPR and Democracy Now...

He fully understands the Tea Party and who owns these people... And so do I... These Tea Partiers want to shut down any federal agency that is out there trying to keep the polluters from poisoning our water and air or using their influence to get billions$$$ of our tax dollars for absolutely nothing that we actually need and, like farm, subsidies, nothing at all... Just corporate welfare...

And guess which party the big crooks have chosen as "their" party... If you guessed the Democratic Party you guess wrong...

B~

---

07 Mar 11 - 10:37 AM (#3108933)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

John Perkins is a pathological liar.

I listened to a radio interview a few years ago when the book mentioned here first came out.

Perkins said he was always the best liar he knew and was proud of that. He said he has been lying all of his life, was lying when he worked IMF, was lying when he wrote the book and was lying right now. Yes, he said he was lying during the interview. He seemed smug and proud of it.

You can't take anything he says seriously even though he may throw out a fact now and then. Overall, he is making it up and amusing himself bigtime. He has made millions selling books so he seems to have the last laugh, at everyone else's expense.

---

07 Mar 11 - 10:44 AM (#3108940)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

John Perkin's [book] explains exactly what I just talked about with the bigh corporations using billion$$$ to by influence...

Well, he sure ain't lying about that.

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07 Mar 11 - 10:48 AM (#3108945)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Overall, he is making it up and amusing himself bigtime. He has made millions selling books so he seems to have the last laugh, at everyone else's expense.

Kinda like George W. Bush, you mean.

---

07 Mar 11 - 10:52 AM (#3108947)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

The Tea Party seems to be filled with dilettanets Tthey seem to be talking nonsense and having fun. You live in a vibrant democracy.

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07 Mar 11 - 12:21 PM (#3109012)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

The political and commercial morals of the United States are not merely food for laughter, they are an entire banquet.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

I hear you. We're lots like that in Canada, too.

---

07 Mar 11 - 04:01 PM (#3109134)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

Ya know, Greg, maybe the answer is folks like Will Rogers and Mark Twain.

---

07 Mar 11 - 04:12 PM (#3109144)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

Will Rogers was an amazing person and one of the wisest men of any generation. His accomplishments include being a champion lasso thrower, a performer on the Broadway stage, the star of 71 movies, a radio broadcaster, an author of six books, and a syndicated newspaper columnist. Will Rogers traveled around the world three times and befriended presidents, senators, prime ministers, and kings.

Will Rogers was famous for his simple, insightful humor and his ability to connect honestly with everyone he met. His comments about politics in general and the politics of his generation are among his most memorable. The following are some of the best Will Rogers political quotes.

There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you.

Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate; now what's going to happen to us with both a Senate and a House?

I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.

The more you read and observe about this Politics thing, you got to admit that each party is worse than the other. The one that's out always looks the best.

The income tax has made more liars out of the American people than golf has.

On account of being a democracy and run by the people, we are the only nation in the world that has to keep a government four years, no matter what it does.

The man with the best job in the country is the Vice President. All he has to do is get up every morning and say, "How's the President?"

An economist's guess is liable to be as good as anybody else's.

Alexander Hamilton started the U.S. Treasury with nothing -- and that was the closest our country has ever been to being even.

If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?

Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.

Politics has become so expensive that it takes a lot of money even to be defeated.

Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.

A fool and his money are soon elected.

About all I can say for the United States Senate is that it opens with a prayer and closes with an investigation.

Our Constitution protects aliens, drunks, and U.S. Senators.

Anything important is never left to the vote of the people. We only get to vote on some man; we never get to vote on what he is to do.

Politics is applesauce.

Diplomats are just as essential to starting a war as soldiers are for finishing it… You take diplomacy out of war, and the thing would fall flat in a week.

I bet after seeing us, George Washington would sue us for calling him "father."

There ought to be one day—just one—when there is open season on senators.

The country has come to feel the same when Congress is in session as when the baby gets hold of a hammer.

If I studied all my life, I couldn't think up half the number of funny things passed in one session of Congress.

If you ever injected truth into politics you'd have no politics.

Things in our country run in spite of government, not by aid of it.

We don't seem to be able to check crime, so why not legalize it and then tax it out of business?

Everything is changing. People are taking their comedians seriously and the politicians as a joke.

Liberty doesn't work as well in practice as it does in speeches.

Ohio claims they are due a president as they haven't had one since Taft. Look at the United States; they have not had one since Lincoln.

The 1928 Republican Convention opened with a prayer. If the Lord can see His way clear to bless the Republican Party the way it's been carrying on, then the rest of us ought to get it without even asking.

There is no more independence in politics than there is in jail.

All I know is just what I read in the papers, and that's an alibi for my ignorance.

Will Rogers was asked about the nature of his humorous remarks about politicians. "I have often said in answer to inquiries as to how I got away with kidding some of our public men, that it was because I liked all of them personally, and that if there was no malice in your heart there could be none in your gags, and I have always said I never met a man I didn't like."

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07 Mar 11 - 04:14 PM (#3109149)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

Sorry about that post. Can't do a clicky on this machine.

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07 Mar 11 - 04:52 PM (#3109172)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: The Fooles Troupe

"The war could have been won with the use of nuclear weapons and without the meddling of those infernal bastards in Washington"

There were those who wanted nukes in Korea - against China. Washington stopped that.

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07 Mar 11 - 05:10 PM (#3109181)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

The Tea Party is a front organization for the Koch Brothers and the Americans For Prosperity.
They are misguided and angry people who don't realize that they are being screwed by
corporate interests and made to believe propaganda rather than deal with real facts.

The facts are clear. Rich people don't want to share the burden of taxes.
Billions are being spent in two failed wars.

Republicans are fighting "culture war" issues instead of taking care of jobs.

Jobs will not be created by Corporate America because it diminishes their bottom line.

The real America is beginning to stand up.

Anyone who brings a gun to a political event in my opinion is a terrorist.

---

07 Mar 11 - 05:36 PM (#3109202)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Laughing My Ass Off!

Guess 999, I loved your quotes!!!

Hey, guys..Obama is doing the same thing Bush did!..and that includes LYING!..and one of the most ironic things is some of you think the Democrats are honest!!!!..and even more honest than the Republicans!!!

Now, just for shits and giggles, what specifically is John Perkins lying about?? (not that I believe or disbelieve him)....and being as their are so many loyal Democrats here, I suppose you all supported LBJ and the Vietnam war!!!!!!

Choke on that one!

GfS

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07 Mar 11 - 08:18 PM (#3109298)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Not me, GfinS... Nor did I support Richard Nixon or Ford... Vietnam was messed up and LBJ and Nixon kept it messed up... I don't know which one was worse when it came to Vietnam...

Johnson, however, gets credit for the courage (insanity) he showed in pushing thru the Civil Rights Act and the Great Society... That ttok some balls (insanity) because he even said that in the case of the Civil Right Act that he was killing off his own party in the South for what he said would be "a generation"... He was wrong there... It killed off the Democratic Party in the south for 100 years... Maybe a 1000 years???

B~

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07 Mar 11 - 09:33 PM (#3109335)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

GfS: I can take no credit. They came off the internet. My apologies for not attributing when I posted. That said, I really liked Will Rogers from the first time I met his humour in a book about his life.

I'm with you in some ways: tired of batting my head against various walls.

Video (in ten parts) performed by Hal Holbrook: it's called "Mark Twain Tonight".

I saw the show on tv back in the late 1960s. I think you'll enjoy it, although I expect you've seen it before.

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07 Mar 11 - 11:30 PM (#3109373)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

".. . supported LBJ and the Vietnam war. . . ."

You've gotta be kidding!!

Don Firth

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08 Mar 11 - 03:33 AM (#3109443)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobertz: "Johnson, however, gets credit for the courage (insanity) he showed in pushing thru the Civil Rights Act and the Great Society..."

Yes, he must have made a 'deal' from the time he single handedly blocked integration in 1959, under Eisenhower!!!(Betcha' didn't know that, did ya'?)

Bobertz: "Vietnam was messed up and LBJ and Nixon kept it messed up... I don't know which one was worse when it came to Vietnam..."

Well, I'm certainly NO fan of Tricky Dick, and say what you will.......but he did get us out of Vietnam...didn't he?....NOT Johnson.

Ironic, how some of you are such ardent staunch Democratic devotees, but it was THEM that got you started, protesting our government!!

Boy!..They did a job on you!!!
No wonder you can't tell if you're comin' or goin'!
A lot of us, out here in Mudcat-Land, just marvel at the stuff you peddle, right from DNC talking points, which are really, always the 'truth', right?..I mean, come on...don't a lot of you scramble around looking for a justification of the hypocrisy that oozes out of Washington, just to uphold 'somebody's bullshit' party line(as in 'excuse'), worn out catch phrases, that somehow, are being swallowed up, by the actions of these clowns, that sold it to you??????

I'm not a Republican, nor a Tea Partier...but land sakes alive, can't you even CONSIDER that the Dems have SHOWN that they are easy prey for rejection????..just out of the amount of lies and excuses they have to give to cover their asses!!!!
This is who I want to represent ME????...YOU?????....some hustler special interest schmuck, maybe..but NOT the ideals that we all claim to admire!!!!

Oh, well....if there is an 'excuse', you can always couch it with, "It's for the children, sniff, sniff"

GfS

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08 Mar 11 - 04:59 AM (#3109480)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST

And so you can clearly see the 2 party bias that pervades most US political thinking due to their first past the post voting and which the participants can not notice - other countries with more than 2 entrenched parties are less prone to this blind dichotomous thinking.

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08 Mar 11 - 05:00 AM (#3109482)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST

Ok the Cookie Monster struck again ...

Foolestroupe

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08 Mar 11 - 08:12 AM (#3109567)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, Nixon didn't get *US* out of Vietnam, GfinS... The Vietnamese did... I mean, let's dabble in reality for a minute here... During the '68 campaign Nixon went around telling everyone that he had a...

..."Secret Plan" to get *US* out of Vietnam!!!

That was 1968...

When did the Vietnam War end, GfinS??? '69??? 70??? 71??? No, 72???, How about '73??? Nope, not yet... Well, then it must have been '74, right... Nope, still going on...

Reality is that it was not until April of 1975!!! Seven years after Nixon's announcement of his "Secret Plan"... During those year Nixon bombed the crap out North Vietnam and Cambodia trying to stop the movement of supplies and manpower and it didn't work... We also saw witnessed the Tet Offensive which clearly wasn't part of Nixon's "Secret Plan"...

No, to say that Nixon got *US* out of Vietnam does not do justice to reality...

Speaking of justice???

Have you ever listened to any of the LBJ tapes, GfinS??? Man, they are very enlightening... Like Robert Byrd, Johnson did make some very fundamental changes in his thinking about racism and deserves credit for making those changes... That's the "courage" part that I, as well as most students of history, appreciate in Johnson... I mean, we have to give credit where credit is due least our thinking becomes so one-dimensional that we are not able to think critically...

If you were to ask the older black people, especially in the South, what they thought of LBJ you'd be surprised to find that a deep respect for 'ol Lyndon... That speaks more than anything... Of course, Dr. King had a lot to do with it because he worked Lyndon purdy hard... But, hey...

...we do need to accept that bad people can change and do good things and Lyndon did just that even if it was at the expense of the Democratic Party in the South...

As for rejecting the Dems??? Hey, what we have here is a complete imbalance of information and it is skewed way right... I mean, by today's standards, Dwight Eisenhower would be a flaming leftist so it is understandable that uninformed people hold uninformed views...

In other words...

...garbage in = garbage out!!!

Square business...

B~

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08 Mar 11 - 06:21 PM (#3109982)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Yeah, Bobertz, I agree....They're all full of shit!

GfS

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08 Mar 11 - 06:40 PM (#3110000)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, they are not all full of shit, GfinS... Just the ones that are full of shit are full of shit...

I mean, let's get real here... Some people make the effort to get educated and, more importantly, ***stay*** educated...

Others??? Just parrots repeating whatever their "handlers" want them to parrot...

One of these groups is full of shit and the other deserves a little respect for spending the time to not be full of shit...

Here's the deal... Bubba loves to brag about he ain't into them eastern, Volvo-driving, latte-sippin' elitists but when Bubba get cancer he's gonna seek out the brightest eastern, Volvo-driving, latte-sippin' surgeon he can find...

But Bubba is perfectly willing to turn the governing of our country over to people who clearly are full of shit and eat up ignorant???

Go figure???

B~

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08 Mar 11 - 06:42 PM (#3110002)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobertz: "I mean, let's get real here... Some people make the effort to get educated and, more importantly, ***stay*** educated...

Others??? Just parrots repeating whatever their "handlers" want them to parrot..."

I'll take that..from you..an expert!!!!

GfS

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08 Mar 11 - 07:25 PM (#3110022)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

LOL...

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08 Mar 11 - 10:23 PM (#3110083)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I thought you'd get a kick out of that, you old fart!

GfS

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08 Mar 11 - 10:26 PM (#3110084)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

"We also saw witnessed the Tet Offensive which clearly wasn't part of Nixon's "Secret Plan"..."    ~ B-pert

No, the Tet Offensive was in January 1968, months before Nixon was even nominated.

The Viet Nam mess was given to us by two Democrats: Robert McNamara and Lyndon Johnson.

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08 Mar 11 - 10:54 PM (#3110095)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Republican revisionist history.

There was a bit more to it that that, guys. I was alive during all of this. And I remember clearly.

Don Firth

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08 Mar 11 - 11:34 PM (#3110109)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh, I'm convinced!
pdq just posted a FACT..what do you got?..besides a snide remark?

GfS

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08 Mar 11 - 11:43 PM (#3110113)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I don't think you'd recognize a fact if it bit you on the ass.

Your mind is made up, as it is about a number of issues. Why should I waste my time?

There are more productive uses of my time and energy.

Don Firth

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08 Mar 11 - 11:46 PM (#3110115)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

Also, the Tet Offensive was a NVA/VC action.

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09 Mar 11 - 12:42 AM (#3110122)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Froth: "...Why should I waste my time?
There are more productive uses of my time and energy."

You're right on that one!..Don't you have a mirror to stare into?

GfS

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09 Mar 11 - 01:58 AM (#3110141)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Don't comprehend the concept of "productive uses of my time and energy," eh, GfinS?

Don Firth

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09 Mar 11 - 03:35 AM (#3110164)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: The Fooles Troupe

"Also, the Tet Offensive was a NVA/VC action. "

But they still kicked arse...

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09 Mar 11 - 07:00 AM (#3110253)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The point was that the NVA/VC had the abilities to strike well within S. Vietnam and that Nixon failed to accept that reality... It was an example of just what kind of enemy we were ***trying*** to fight... That's the part that escaped both Nixon and Johnson... Both thought it was a conventional war and neither were willing to accept that it wasn't so they went along using WW II/Korean tactics...

That is why after 100s of weeks of fighting those who parrot that the the US was within a week of winning sound like the folks who claim that man never flew to the moon...

Nixon was delusional...

B~

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09 Mar 11 - 07:36 PM (#3110759)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Tea Party members and its sympathizers are the most pluralistic and culturally diverse people with the credo of inclusiveness that cuts across all socio economic boundries and hearlds a new day in the peaceful implementation of humane domestic policies and distribution of health, wealth and education for all Americans and its visitors !!!!!!!!!!!!



Or so the ceo of npr fundraising had wished he had said...

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09 Mar 11 - 10:31 PM (#3110815)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yo, Donuel...

I am in NC but I picked up the Washington Post this mornin' and the best editorial to date was written by Robert Samuelson... Yeah, I know, yawn... But he laid it out there... He explained the Tea Party in terms of economics and it is one fine piece or writing by a guy I usually don't find a;l that interesting....

Read it!!!

B~ (in NC)

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09 Mar 11 - 10:35 PM (#3110816)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Sorry, it was Harold Meyerson, Donuel... Another columnist I find, ahhhh, boring...

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10 Mar 11 - 08:37 AM (#3111044)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

But back to Meyerson...

I'm going to make copies of that op-ed and give it to anyone who will read it... It is very eye-opening...

If the Tea Party folks were to read it then they would abandon the Republican Party today... Blaming Dems and government workers ain't why they are either unemployed or underemployed and when that BIGASS LIE is debunked the Republican Party will go down in flames...

B~

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10 Mar 11 - 09:29 AM (#3111068)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

the Republican Party will go down in flames...

OBJECTION! Assuming brains not in evidence.

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10 Mar 11 - 12:56 PM (#3111192)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Greg: "OBJECTION! Assuming brains not in evidence."

Are you speaking for yourself??

GfS

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10 Mar 11 - 01:18 PM (#3111209)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Ya know, GuestInsanity, you're certainly not doing the The Sisterhood any favors. You're the embodyment of the tired, old slander that women are incapable of anylitical reasoning.

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11 Mar 11 - 02:06 AM (#3111444)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Thank you for your insightful parody...you should go far!

GfS

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11 Mar 11 - 03:15 PM (#3111893)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

You, too, GfS. Might I suggest somewhere in the Arturus system?

Don Firth

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11 Mar 11 - 06:20 PM (#3111976)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well, beats a meeting of your minds in Uranus...

GfS

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11 Mar 11 - 06:26 PM (#3111980)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Gettin' a little to clever fir me...

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11 Mar 11 - 07:38 PM (#3112024)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Yep! He's always thinking about that particular area of the universe.

Explains a lot!

Don Firth

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11 Mar 11 - 07:58 PM (#3112032)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Greg its not just anylitical thing

Its 'analytical'

yep it said anal

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12 Mar 11 - 01:34 AM (#3112132)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don First: "Yep! He's always thinking about that particular area of the universe."

Funny you should see that as your universe.
Oh well.....

GfS

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12 Mar 11 - 02:23 AM (#3112145)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

No, dork. YOUR universe.

Jeez, you're slow!

Don Firth

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12 Mar 11 - 03:02 AM (#3112152)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

You wish!


GfS

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12 Mar 11 - 03:28 AM (#3112155)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

here's a couple of tunes for ya'.....this one first......


or you can listen to this one, first

With Love,

GfS

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17 Mar 11 - 05:25 AM (#3115520)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: The Fooles Troupe

Teabaggers Finally Google 'Teabag'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/teabaggers-finally-google_b_460769.html

They seem to want to prefer the term "Donkey Punchers" hahahahaha

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Donkey+Puncher
Donkey Puncher

When a man is having a*** s**with a person, and he punches them in the back of the head to make them clinch up on his d***.

Jim donkey punched that girl last night.

Perhaps they thought it was ..."In gaming, the term Donkey Puncher is usually a reference to the largest caliber weapon on the battlefield"....:-P

---

17 Mar 11 - 05:29 AM (#3115522)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: The Fooles Troupe

Oh Yeah

The evolution of the word 'tea bagger'

http://theweek.com/article/index/202620/the-evolution-of-the-word-tea-bagger

QUOTE
Feb. 27, 2009
At the first anti-stimulus "New American Tea Party" rally in Washington D.C., a protestor carries a sign reading "Tea Bag the Liberal Dems before they Tea Bag You!!" The Washington Independent's David Weigel calls it "the best sign I saw."

March 2
Americans for Prosperity, an anti-tax group, is one of the first Tea Party organizations to advocate sending tea bags to elected officials to protest the stimulus package. Several other lobby groups follow suit.

April 1
Several Tea Party protest sites encourage readers to "Tea bag the fools in DC." Jay Nordlinger at National Review Online later admits: "Conservatives started [using the term]... but others ran and ran with it."

April 9
Rachel Maddow is the first to mock the Tea Party's use of the phrase on her left-leaning MSNBC show. "Even Governor Mark Sanford of South Carolina is getting in on the hot tea-bagging action," she says, stifling laughter. (Watch Rachel Maddow joke about the "tea baggers")

April 13
David Shuster, filling in for liberal commentator Keith Olbermann on MSNBC, also makes fun of the phrase. "While the parties are officially toothless, the tea-baggers are full-throated about their goals," he says. Jeff Poor at the Business and Media Insitute says that the MSNBC comments are "lost in juvenile criticism and ignoring the reason there is discontent from the conservative base"

UNQUOTE


Hahahahaha!

---

13 May 11 - 06:11 PM (#3153634)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Author: Bobert
Date:   01-25-09 21:30

Ahhhhhh, the "Code Book"...

Problem is that racism is so institutionalized in the deep South that folks there ***honestly*** don't know they are part of it... Yeah, one needs to get outta that environment to get it...

I know that P-Man ain't got a clue what I'm talkin' about here... There is a cultural denial... We have a lot of it here in Page County, Va. as well...

"Well, Geeze, Bobert... We have lived and worked with these Negros for generations and we're over that stuff... It's you Yankees that ain't got a clue..." (lol)... No, not really on either the "lol" or the standard company fight song... I've heard that song for the last 40 years and guess what??? the per capita poverty rates are higher where ya'll say that yer over all that stuff than in the rsst of the country... There's a reason for this... It's called...

... institutional racism and it is ingrained in alot of people who think they are above that...

"Some of my best friends are black..."

Oh??? Then why is it that ya'll don't worship together??? Or hang out at the same beer joints??? Or go the car races together??? [Bobert puts out a sweeping generalization]

I don't buy ya'lls company fight song...

But that's all in the "Code Book" where ya'll get all righteously indignant when in less than 3 days P-Man is ready to make the proclamation [he procllaim anything, Left Wing Politico did but Bobert puts those words into someone else's mouth] that Obama's administration is the most secretive since WW II???

I mean, what is any thinking person to think???

"Hmmmmm, Ralph, seems that P-Man didn't give the guy much of a chance, did he???"

Well, no he didn't...

Nor has Rush Limbaugh who ahs allready said on the radio that he hopes that the Obama presidency "fails"....[meaning everybody who disagrees with Bobert agrees with RL and they are responsible for what he says]

"Hmmmmm, Ralph... Wouldn't that mean millions and millions of Americans loosing their jobs and their homes... Doesn't it mean a real possibility of the US economy just imploding???"

Well, yeah (spit)... But if it gets that ________________ outta our White House then it will be worth it...

Oh???

So ya'll righties want to see the country sink further in the recession to get the "nigga" out??? [now Bobert puts his favorite racist words into other people's mouths so he can accuse them of being racist]

Seems that's the new company fight song seein' as it's been blessed by Rush hisself...

No, I coulda accepted if P-Man had waited a month 'er two before the gang-bang but after 3 days??????????????????????????????????

Give me a break... No "Code Book" needed here... This is a case of institutional/cultural racism... I mean, even a couple weeks...

But to lob such generalizations less than a 100 hours into a new presidency as P-Man can't be seen as anything but what it is...

Hey, I hate this, too... I gave George Bush a million times more respect than what P-Man has given Obama...[any examples of that?]

This ain't about no name callin'... This is observation...[subjective or objective?]

I ain't lookin' to play no "race card"... It's allready been played and it was played with all the down and dirty righteous indignation that I rememebr seein' on TV as a kid when the black folks marched on Selma... [I thought Bobert said he was there participating]

Too bad... This joint is a blues site... Would sho nuff be nice if folks who came here understood what Selma was all about 'cause the blues ain't white music. It's black folk music that we white folks have taken up but we white folks didn't start it... That's a fact...

I mean, I don't know what else to say other than if'n yer into puttin' out sweepin' generalizatios about Obama before the jury has even heard the case then this ol' hillbilly gonna call ya' on it...

Hate ot have to do it but folks had to march on Selma, too...

And that ***is*** the way it is...[take Bobert's word for it or else]

Give the guy a friggin' chance and turn Rush the fu*k off and listen to some good blues instead...


Re: Washinton D.C. this week
Author: parchman
Date:   01-25-09 21:51

Bobert,

The problem isn't code words or institutionalized racism or subconscious racism.

The problem is that you project your own racist thoughts on the rest of the world. Stop accusing others of subscribing to your own personal prejudices. Some of us don't worry about race; we actually look at the man's words and deeds and consider him based on those. It's obvious you are not able to do that and instead filter the world through your own bigoted glasses.

---

13 May 11 - 06:42 PM (#3153646)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Whooo, boy - Sawz must have been off his meds for quite a while....

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13 May 11 - 07:55 PM (#3153682)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Move to the South, Sawz...

Until then, you are, as per usual, clueless...

BTW, my prejudice is all about ignorant people like you talking about shit they have no idea about... No, that ain't prejudice... It's 100% bias... I don't prejudge anyone but once they exhibit their complete and total ignorance the gloves are off...

B~

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18 May 11 - 02:21 PM (#3156433)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Dear Bosrt:

I have never called you ignorant or stupid.

Now just who was it that said this:

"So ya'll righties want to see the country sink further in the recession to get the "nigga" out???"

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18 May 11 - 07:36 PM (#3156682)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I did... It was written from a purely from a perspective that you know little about about people that you know little about and what they routinely say... I hear this shit... You don't... I hear a lot worse than this, too...

You don't get the South and you never will...

B~

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27 May 11 - 09:19 AM (#3161260)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"I hear this shit" Who did you hear it from? Where When?

You concoct a bigoted and racist statement and use it as a broad generalization to condemn anybody that disagrees with you.

Bobert tells people they have to go somewhere or do something to prove prove he is right and If they don't, it means Bobert is right.

It only proves Bobert has no proof, just the same bias that he accuses others of having.

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27 May 11 - 09:27 AM (#3161263)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Get a life, Sawz...

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27 May 11 - 04:25 PM (#3161454)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

The Tea Party is a misguided, disgruntled, exploited party of ignorant people.
The ignorance stems from the fact that they don't know that the Koch Brothers are pulling the strings. This is not true democracy. They are corporate stooges. The label "conservative" may not apply but the label "radical" certainly does. The idea that there is no partisanship is ludicrous. That's all there is although they are being exploited and used. They are however driving the Republican Party over the cliff. Cortez, over 50, adequately represents the Tea Party's constituency.

The sad part is that the Tea Party has a legitimate complaint. Corporatocracy has screwed them and they don't know it. If they were to band together with the progressive working class in this country, great changes in favor of democracy could be made.

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27 May 11 - 04:57 PM (#3161462)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Exactly, Strings...

These people are dupes and too ignorant to see that they are being used to protect the rich from people like them???

Go figure???

Fact *IS* stranger that fiction...

B~

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27 May 11 - 05:23 PM (#3161472)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

The Tea Party is a joke, like the Rhino Party. All meant in good fun, wot!

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28 May 11 - 08:08 AM (#3161703)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Now wait just a minute- the Rhinos are a REAL party!

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28 May 11 - 01:22 PM (#3161794)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

From: Bobert - PM
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 08:21 PM

Well, then why won't you friggin' answer my questions with anything but BS questions??? What do you have to hide???

Ake, you ain't read enough of her subterfuge and evasive BS... She absolutely refuses to answer straight up questions... She runs like "pigs from a gun" and then plays her little games bynot answering the questions but rather ask a multitude of meaningless rhetorical questions of her own... You may be innamored by her intellect but you certainly ain't looking into her motives... Ol' pea-under-the-shell game she has been playing here since she arrived... If you are fascinated by it, fine... All I can see is someone filled with hate who won't come clean...

B~

As usual, Bobert accuses other people of doing exactly what he does.

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28 May 11 - 07:55 PM (#3161946)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John on the Sunset Coast

Stringsinger--

George Soros_________________________________Koch Bros.

Extreme ends of the political continuum. The Left has its rich manipulator, the Right theirs.   BFD!!! Sounds fair to me.

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28 May 11 - 08:22 PM (#3161952)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Sawz,

As I have pointed out on many occasions to you, I do answer questions... I have answered all of yours at one point or another... I can't help it if you don't agree with or like my answers...

You just can't leave it alone once I have answered them if you don't like the answers... That's your problem, not mine...

You need counseling for your OCD that you have with me...

Like I've said, get your own life...

Yo, John...

I don't recall any of George Soros's money going to hire community organizers to round up goons to disrupt town meetings... My mother, a veteran of the Civil Right movement (arrested 4 times) left a town meeting because it had been highjacked by goons organized with Koch brothers $$$... You call that democracy??? That's brownshirt and it all on ya'll side of the divide... When you clean ya'll's act up then come after the left... Right now, you side needs some serious manners training... Maybe you think that the voters will reward thuggery, I donno... Most of the folks I know are getting just a little tired of the right trying to shout out everyone else...

See you in 2012...

B~

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29 May 11 - 09:46 AM (#3162101)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Sorry, John, but if you stack up the "rich manipulators" on each end of the spectrum - individual & corp[orate- & compare the amounts of cash involved, the Koch end wins hands down by several magnitudes.

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29 May 11 - 07:06 PM (#3162319)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

I think that we need to take the grievances of the Tea Party seriously because they reflect a lot of the abuse the lower income and working class community is getting now. Chomsky says they could be dangerous. I think they could be analogous to the brown shirts.

People are hurting economically today because we are getting screwed by lying leaders who beat us with their austerity programs, their shift of money from the working people to their rich wealthy coffers. Many Tea Party types are being abused but don't know it.

People out of work, mistrustful of government, angry, yearning for some identification with good values but on the wrong road to get them are not a joke.

The solution is for the Tea Party to see that they are part of a larger picture of the exploitation of working and middle class people by wealthy corporate "masters"
who are running the government (US, UK and others) into the ground.

We need more Tahrir Squares.

---

30 May 11 - 03:33 AM (#3162457)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

700!!..and get serious..a 'terrorist' organization?????

GfS

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30 May 11 - 05:22 AM (#3162497)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

"We need more Tahrir Squares."

I dont think so Frank, better wait till you see what Septembers election produces. All the signs say that the Muslim Brotherhood will sweep the board(after assuring the protesters that they would not even stand).

I see a well planned template here for the whole of the Middle East and North Africa.....the Islamists cunningly using the rhetoric of "freedom" in their own interests.

Actually, Fundamentalist Islam would probably be beneficial to the survival of humanity and planet Earth, but extremely unpleasant for the spoiled children of the West.

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30 May 11 - 11:57 AM (#3162659)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Akenaton: "I see a well planned template here for the whole of the Middle East and North Africa.....the Islamists cunningly using the rhetoric of "freedom" in their own interests."

Yes, and the 'interests', of both 'right' and 'left' are USING and trying to manipulate the 'Muslim cause' to their benefit as well!...only problem is, when it's all said and done, both the 'right and left' do-gooders', are STILL infidels, and need to be 'done away with', when the time is right!

Morons need not try to comprehend..it will only hurt your head!

GfS

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30 May 11 - 03:26 PM (#3162756)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

The idea that being armed all of the time as a supreme law of the land is a misreading of the Constitution by sanguinary types who want to show off their macho. We are not today dealing with "well regulated militias" but bloviated hotheads who are shooting off their guns along with their mouths.

Packing heat at Tea Party rallies is an example of foolish bravado that solves no real problems in America.

I would say that the Christian Wrong is a terrorist organization typified by
"Operation Rescue" and these people are found in the Tea Party.

How many more Gabrielle Giffords do we have to have to get this point across?

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30 May 11 - 08:01 PM (#3162856)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Strings: "How many more Gabrielle Giffords do we have to have to get this point across?"

What does that have to do with the 'Tea Party'?..NOTHING!
The guy is a lunatic, not motivated by party affiliation or political 'leanings'....a disturbed individual...just a step up from you!

(wink)
GfS

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31 May 11 - 08:39 PM (#3163413)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Nah, it has everything to do with the Tea Party... 2nd Amendment remedies give "permission" to the nut balls... Thugs shouting down Congressmen and scaring people away from participating give permission to the nut balls...

Time for the right to reel in a lot of their boorish behavior or we'll be seeing more and more Gabbie Giffords in the future...

B~

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01 Jun 11 - 09:23 AM (#3163692)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Without big government this country would have the same freedoms of Deadwood in the 1870's.

As long as the Federal Government is subject to Goldman Sachs every whim, Wall St. will continue to destroy the American and now global dream.

The bigger the divide between rich and poor the more the filthy rich can point to tax statistics and clain the rich pay the larger proportion of all taxes. As the poverty level grows past 45% it is already true that the rich pay most of the taxes.
When the poor reach 60% the rich may find a more final solution to the problem.

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01 Jun 11 - 01:40 PM (#3163807)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Nah, it has everything to do with the Tea Party... 2nd Amendment remedies give "permission" to the nut balls... Thugs shouting down Congressmen and scaring people...."

I knew that you were ignorant on our Constitutional rights!..Freedom of speech is guaranteed by the 1st, and 14th amendments!...not the 2nd!

And that other nutcase who shot Giffords, was NOT politically motivated, as EVERY investigation shows!..So stop your Democratic based whining!!..but then, even you have the freedom of speech, as well!!...but NOT if the Democrats have their way!..or for that matter, the Republicans, too. they both are working overtime to do away with our Constitutional rights, and replace them with political blather!!

GfS

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01 Jun 11 - 02:31 PM (#3163839)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

A word in your ears, gentlemen:

I heard a self-professed member of the "Tea Party" say that he considered "packing heat" as an important part of the First Amendment in that if you have your Glock in your hand, the politicians pay a lot more attention to what you tell them you want them to do.

Frankly, I don't think I want the country I live in to be run that way. I seem to recall a little man with a postage stamp mustache and a penchant for wearing uniforms, with a bunch of shaved-headed goons in tow some decades back who operated pretty much the same way. Caused quite a ruckus in the late 1930s and early 1940s.

And God knows, a bunch of armed "Tea Party" members hardly constitute a "well-regulated militia." This sure as hell isn't what the Founding Fathers had in mind!

Don Firth

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01 Jun 11 - 02:34 PM (#3163841)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: akenaton

I agree with all of that Donuel.....so why do you continually support Mr Obama who is joined at the hip to "liberal democracy" and the party system.

For the problems you correctly outline we need radical action in the US and here in the UK.

People are afraid and want to stick to the status quo.....even though it is evident that it's unsustainable.

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01 Jun 11 - 02:51 PM (#3163848)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Sorry to disagree, GfS, but Jared Loughner WAS politically motivated IN ADDITION to being a nut-case. He was not especially affiliated with any particular political group, but he was very anti-government and heavily into conspiracy theories. One of his acquaintances said that he was panting for the "bloody revolution" to get under way, and that he was all in favor of the "Tea Party." And he had a particular beef on against Gabrielle Gifford.

Let us stick to the facts and eschew hyperbole, eh?

Don Firth

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01 Jun 11 - 06:44 PM (#3163942)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

If it wasn't possible for nut jobs to get guns, Gabrielle Gifford wouldn't have been shot. Whether or not the gunman was politically motivated, I lay the blame for her shooting on the NRA, and personally on every member. Anyone who thinks the 2nd Amendment gives everyone a right to whatever guns they want isn't very good at reading.

Going back a bit: Who ended the Viet Nam war? I did. Me, and all the other people all over the world that were taking part in massive protests.

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01 Jun 11 - 07:44 PM (#3163959)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Exactly, John P... We did end the Vietnam War... I mean, even my Republican dad marched in the Moratorium in Washington, D.C.... Proudest day of my life...

As fir knowledge of the US Constitution, GfinS... My first degree was in History and Poli-Sci... I fully understand the Constitution... I fully understand the 2nd amendment... It is one sentence... Not two as the right would have people believe... The right to bare arms is therefor tied to the right to organized a "standing militia"... Militias, by definition, are not "individuals"... They are groups of individual with a single purpose of defending a group of citizens... The 2nd amendment, in no way, gives individuals a right to bare arms as "one man militias" or the Founding Fathers would have stated it that way... But they didn't... They tied the right to bare arms to a "militia"... The Tea Party people don't have a clue what I am saying here because the Tea Party people don't have a clue about anything that is fact based...

That's the real story...

Oh yeah... We have battery laws on the books in every state... That prevents people from using threats of violence to settle conflicts... When thug, who are paid by the Koch brothers, enter a town meeting with the intent of scaring the shit out of everyone that is supposed, and used to be, a crime...

B

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01 Jun 11 - 08:02 PM (#3163973)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Have you ever noticed that, throughout the Constitution, when a right is being given to individuals, they are referred to as "persons". When rights are being give to the populace in general, the words are "the people". This distinction is used in every instance.

The 2nd Amendment gives us the right, as a group, to arm militias that we create. Sort of like the Army, the National Guard, and the police. If a community wants its own militia, they could start one. But there's nothing in the Constitution that says the militia members get to take their guns home after a militia meeting. I'd advise town armories, with the guns only coming out when the militia is practicing.

I hear NRA types often saying that things would be better if we enforced the gun laws currently on the books. I suppose they are talking about the loopholes for gun shows where nut jobs can go buy automatic rifles. What laws were those again?

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01 Jun 11 - 10:13 PM (#3164002)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yes, John P... You are also a student of American History... That's good... Too few of us...

And I have just moved from Virgina (gun show loophole capital of the uncivilized world) and know fully what you are talking about...

Here's the reality: I can rent a 26 foot box truck and drive to a gunb show in Richmond, Va. (They hold 'um out at the old Fairgrounds off Laburum Ave) and back that rental truck up and fill it with AK47s, ammunition and book on how to turn them into fully automatic weapons...

Automatic weapons in untrained hands is like giving folks a nuke... They are not all that accurate (think collateral damage here)... Yes, they put out a lot of lead but that lead isn't all that specific what it hits...

But that is the law... And that is why the rest of the world has to warn it's citizens about "our little problem" before they come to visit *US*...

Wonder how many more folks would come and drop their money here if we didn't have these crazy (lax) gun laws???

B~

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02 Jun 11 - 02:00 AM (#3164041)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

This one has been corrected........

Wooo-Wee...Look at the weaselly left, whoop up the hate, and divisions!
....and accusing the 'Tea Partiers' of being 'terrorists, and 'gun freaks'...and signing in Jared Loughner, into their ranks, just to try to make a bogus argument!!!..You guys are scarier than the 'Tea Partiers'....probably, because there are more joining their ranks, and even fleeing the two main parties......and the thought of you losing your grip, to force crap down the American public's throats, terrifies you!!
Most people in the 'Tea Party' identify with being independents...and pissed off ones, at that! Both parties have miserably FAILED the American public, who they are supposed to be serving, by representing them....Well we know they ain't doin' that!!..What did ya' expect?? I'm NOT a 'Tea Partier' but, people have the right to assemble to show their protest of a corrupt, hidden agenda driven political system, that doesn't represent them.
Why don't we get to vote for the people who they DO represent???
People are tired of it, and though the 'Tea Party' may be as manipulated as you say,..you think the Democrats aren't???????...or the Republicans??..You've got to be kidding!!
So all the accusatory rhetoric, is just whining about the left's failure to secure the goals they wanted..but..what you need to wise up about, is that their STATED goals, are not their ultimate goals, and they (you), are being fraudulently buffaloed!....ask any multi-national globalist banker!!!..Why not just ask them what they want, to see if WE want that?....and they could save their bribing and influence peddling money....maybe even give it to the poor!!!,,(or stimulate the economy, for which it was given to them for)

All that, and I think all of the body politic has a cancerous growth, all through-out, and VERY little attention should even be paid them, and NO slack given them, until they represent us, instead of indoctrinating us, on what we SHOULD want..and how we have to have it..and that the ends justify the means..including shredding our freedoms!!!...and changing our country, as to leaving us VERY little freedom!!!

Fuck 'em all!

GfS

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02 Jun 11 - 09:31 AM (#3164174)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Freedom is one of those unusual words when we are using it to allow thugs to dominate public meeting and threaten us with 2nd amendment rights if we don't go along with what their views... That is what the brown shirts did...

No... Freedom to me means exactly that... ***Free-dom*** Free of rednecks trying to scream and threaten their views onto the entire nation...

The US is in decline mostly because the right has gotten it's way for way too long while our competitors have been "up to speed" with what it takes to live with globalization... The US strangely enough is "just watching" and will continue to decline until it discovers that the Reagan economic model is archaic and not going to get *US* turned around..

B~

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02 Jun 11 - 12:09 PM (#3164228)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Sorry, GfS, my ideals and goals are my own, not those of some hidden brain-washing puppet master. I vote for the candidates that seem to most closely reflect my views.

I agree that neither party really represents us. Voting is almost always choosing the lesser of two evils. The big difference between the right and left, for me, is that the right wants to tell me who I can marry, wants to give still more money to the hideously rich, wants to do away with government regulation of greedy people who have their paws in our economic system, tells outrageous lies, wants to inflict their religion on the rest of us, and is unwilling to compromise on anything. The left has a better track record on all those things.

But my basic position is the same as yours: fuck them all. Until we get money out of politics we will have a system where money gets represented instead of people.

---

02 Jun 11 - 07:32 PM (#3164441)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yup, John P... We need to get the $$$ out of politics/poilicies... Right now the right and the Repubs can dial up just how much money they want their masters to *chip in*... We are going to see the first billion dollar presidential campaign in '12 from the Repubs... Their people want Obama out of their "Whites Only" House and with the Republican Supreme Court ruling in Citizens United they are going to throw everything and "the kitchen sink" at Obama...

B~

---

02 Jun 11 - 10:13 PM (#3164500)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

John P. has it in a nutshell.

Granted, the word "politics" comes from two Latin words:   poly, which means "many," and ticks, refering to "blood-sucking insects."

But it's all we've got, sports fans--unless we want to turn the country over to a dictator.

But this perpetual whining on some people's parts that the fix is in and there is nothing we can do about it is not just counterproductive, it is untrue. Anthropologist Margaret Mead made the observation that

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!"

She also said,

"We have nowhere else to go... this is all we have!"

So you can either sit there whining that it's no use, we are doomed.....or you can get off your lazy keister and get to work.

If you can't find a candidate that you like, then find one who is better than the one you want to depose, even if he or she ISN'T "perfect" (whatever the hell that is), then get up off your lard-laden ass, and work to get them elected.

All the "Oh, me, oh, my, it's hopeless!!" in the world, no matter how eloquently or dramatically you express it, only proves that you're nothing more than a lazy coward with a big mouth,

Get over it!!

Don Firth

---

02 Jun 11 - 10:21 PM (#3164503)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

As I have done in every national election going back to '60, I'll do my part...

(Okay, I have sat out on 2 elections...)

B~

---

03 Jun 11 - 01:39 AM (#3164551)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don Firth: (Quoting Margaret Mead)"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!"

Well, yes, that is true...and we've seen it, and many, even here, participated in such things, and even so, in our youth.

I remember my Dad telling me, back then, in one of those 'heart to heart' talks,..and, upon him knowing that I've been a bit of a 'rebel', said, "Sometimes there is a time for rebels, and rebellion, but don't be a 'rebel' for rebel's sake. Instead, you can keep your spirit of being a rebel, but rebel at evil."

Now being at the cutting edge of a few things(artistically speaking), I've had to be a bit 'revolutionary', if you will...., 'Not sticking to the old shit, that doesn't fully work..but to 'revolve' as in 'turn' toward your inspiration...and in the course, of what I've seen, in my country and government, as well as corporate/business, and all the lies, that we find ourselves making excuses for, or spinning them to promote either party, then, what I come to, is "In a universe of deceit, speaking the truth is revolutionary!"

What we have seen, and from both parties, MANIPULATED BY THE SAME PEOPLE, is SO MUCH deceit, that maybe the truth, will come from the ground up, and have power to defeat the real oppressive enemy, of all of us!...Just some of us want to hold onto, that youth..and our ideals, and our place in it, without snapping a tight leash, on those parties, co-opting us, and using that spirit in us, that once gave THEM power.
The day that they use LIES, to persuade us toward their goals, without honesty, and practice 'mind control', to that end, is the day I'm OUT!......I'll listen to where I get truth...and in time, the 'small group' of us, will ultimately win out!

Sometimes ya just gotta turn your backs on 'Bogus Crusaders'!!

me??...I'm writing/composing and performing some revolutionary truth....it has NOTHING to do with political anything.................................(they lie too much).


Don, you shine, when you stick to music!

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!"

"Sometimes there is a time for rebels, and rebellion, but don't be a 'rebel' for rebel's sake. Instead, you can keep your spirit of being a rebel, but rebel at evil."

"In a universe of deceit, speaking the truth is revolutionary!"

"Sometimes ya just gotta turn your backs on 'Bogus Crusaders'!!"



Regards,

GfS

---

03 Jun 11 - 04:51 PM (#3164857)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

"Don, you shine, when you stick to music!!"

Implying, I presume, that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to politics, so I should just shut up and stick to music?

Did you take any Civics classes when you were in high school? The teacher of my high school history and civics classes acted as faculty advisor for a group of students who got together after school one afternoon a week for a discussion of current events. I was one of those students for two years.

Ever take any Political Science and/or Economics courses in college?   Philosophy? Ethics?

Have you ever read Plato's Republic? What was Plato's stance on the idea of democracy? For or against?

How about Thomas Hobbes? John Locke? Baruch Spinoza? Or the writings of Thomas Paine? Or James Madison?

Or Alexis de Tocqueville's monumental two volume work, Democracy in America?

More recent: Modern Political Philosophies by Louis Wasserman, a concise encyclopedia of the principles and characterists of the world's political systems and their philosophical and economic bases. Good reference book, but a bit dated now.

Excellent little book: First Democracy: The Challenge of an Ancient Idea, by Paul Woodruff. A description of Athenian democracy, how it worked (remarkably well, in fact!), and how it did not work (and how to fix it). The book contains a highly thought-provoking final chapter or afterword, entitled, "Are Americans Ready for Democracy?" Easy, fast read and very enlightening. Highly recommended!

A perusal of some of the works of George Lakoff (a linguist rather than a political writer) gives one a great deal of insight into the way political thinkers (and non-thinkers!) manipulate language in an effort to (of course!) manipulate the opinions of others.

There's a lot of that going on here on these Mudcat threads. It's a fascinating demonstration of some of the things Lakoff talks about to see the way many people use political labels while not having the foggiest notion of what the terms mean!

Have you ever worked on a political campaign? I have;   a number of times, having to do with both national and local candidates and issues.

Also, I am on old geek. I remember presidents, congressmen, and political campaigns (and the convolutions of rhetoric) from many decades ago. From FDR up to the present.

No, I don't think anyone could characterize me as "politically naïve." If anything, some people consider me a royal pain in the ass because I'm pretty good at identifying political pettifoggery, whether it be from national politicians, streetcorner campaigners, or blog-addicted mynah birds who frequent the BS threads here on Mudcat.

Note:   I do not belong to a political party.

Am I a political "rebel?" That depends upon where the person accusing me of that is coming from. I have well thought out and firm (but open to new input) ideas about political principles and ethics and, in general, how a free and open democracy should operate—to the maximum benefit of ALL it's citizens. To the plutocrat who is trying to get even richer by screwing as many people as possible, I'm undoubtedly a rebel. But to me, HE's the rebel, even if he IS the CEO of a multinational corporation. So it's a wash.

Another one to read:   William L. Schirer's, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. How did Hitler's Germany get that way? What were the dynamics involved? Could it happen again somewhere else?

Have you read what Benito Mussolini wrote about the relationship between the Corporations and the State in a Fascist government?

And what HE thought the Fasces, the symbol of a bundle of sticks tied around a battle-ax, actually symbolizes?

He oughtta know!

Fascinating! Scary! Think about it!

Don Firth

P. S. It's hard to "brainwash" someone who knows where his towel is.*

*See Douglass Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

---

03 Jun 11 - 10:36 PM (#3164978)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Same as the other one......Except for the 'P.S.'

Don, You went off on what you THOUGHT I was IMPLYING....that's not what I meant!...at all. Just take it for face value: "You shine when it comes to music."...other than that, "Knowledge speaks; Wisdom listens."...

All of what you posted, in your last post, doesn't resolve the fact that both parties are corrupted by the very people who 'offer' the 'other' party for the solution...only to find out, that the root of the problem, is the same that is 'wrong' with the 'other party'.
its time NOT to listen to EITHER of them, and just stick to the truth...even if both parties only use partial amounts, of it, to manipulate people away from that which really is true...and keep from being discovered, who is really behind the two offered 'choices'.

GfS

P.S...Maybe we should ALL be better, sticking to music...if that's where we shine!!

---

03 Jun 11 - 11:39 PM (#3165006)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Sorry if I misconstrued what you said, GfS.

As to the general corruption of both parties, I've been fully aware of this since I compared what Mr. Lawrence (the high school civics teacher I mentioned) said was the way things were supposed to be with what I soon became aware was really going on in the political realm.

Does one simply give up? I, for one, am not ready to do that yet.

Don Firth

---

04 Jun 11 - 08:45 AM (#3165135)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Terrorists? No. Morons? Yup. Arseholes? You bet!

--------------------------------

Enemy Democrats

June 3, 2011
Plattsburgh, NY PRESS-REPUBLICAN
TO THE EDITOR: The more upstate New York conservatives organize, the more chaos ensues.

It seems we were better off before we had the Tea Party and Teamwatch: where once we had Republicans (the 23rd and the 26th congressional districts), we now have liberal Democrats. This makes no sense unless you actually think about it.

Teamwatch informs the voters of our representative's actions, while Tea Party folks protest against government excess, and these are good things. The fly in the ointment is the fact that both groups are dancing around the real problem: There is a war under way for the soul of America, and the enemy is the Democrat Party.

Abortion, gun control, socialized medicine, the lobotomizing of children in government schools, class warfare and a graduated tax are all tools in the kit of communist dictatorships and the Democrat Party.

How much more life, liberty and property do Americans have to lose before they see the connection?

Leo J. Seney
Dannemora

---

06 Jun 11 - 01:06 AM (#3165781)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

More name calling from either side, pointing fingers at the other side, is a futile exercise of the Merry-Go-Round. There IS a truth out there, and I think it best to get to it, and stand on it! Both parties will hate you and call us names, but so what?..most of what they are putting forth, in their name calling and lying is being found out, and let the discrediting begin! The Republicans are trying to do with the 'Tea Party', as the Democrats did to the 'peace movement' of the 60's. This should be patently obvious..and being as we lived through it, we SHOULD have a handle on it...and our wisdom and age, should cause us to ask the right questions, at the right time, and make it publicly known, that the way business is done in Washington, shall now be on the decrease! The one thing both parties fear, is Independent thinkers, who aren't falling for their line of crap! They should be exposed, written about, both journalistically, and in music, and everything that lies within us, to return America to a Constitutionally based government, that gets it's nose, and sticky fingers, out of our personal lives, and pocketbooks! Ignore polls who favor one or the other side...Independents are growing faster than either party, and possibly both parties combined!!
Instead of being 'issue based', which either side will align themselves to, for the votes, DEMAND that the corruption, the 'puppeteering', and the 'special interests' over populist representation, be done away with, and in fact, start pressing for charges, up to and including treason,..regardless of party, and/or banking affiliations!!...It is TAXPAYERS money that was supposed to be used to help us, the taxpayers, but it all somehow got misdirected into the hands of the globalist bankers, and was NOT used to stimulate the economy(at least for the working, taxpaying public), but rather used to line the pockets of the mega corporations, who are actively waging war on the small business people of America!...who were the ones who were actually putting more people to work, than the corporations!..Go figure!
More and more people are getting sick and tired of their pack of lies......all they need is a 'little theme song'.....and less support!
NO MORE!!!

GfS

---

06 Jun 11 - 01:06 AM (#3165782)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Dear Mr Bobert:

I asked who said "So ya'll righties want to see the country sink further in the recession to get the "nigga" out???"

You have not answered that question. Saying I heard it is not answering the question.

Obviously it was you who made that racist remark but you do not want to own up to it.

You want to make believe someone else said it so you can project your attitudes about the extent of racism on others.

Your OCD is about making hateful, racist remarks. You believe it somehow makes the world better.

---

Leo J. Seney:Dear Editor:
When we can no longer afford the government, the government can no longer afford to treat us with kid gloves. After redistribution comes re-education and the re-evaluation of who may live and who must be eliminated. All of this will be done for the greater good--of the Cummuno/Fascist Democrat party, that is.

The Republicans are being criticised for voting against health care but that charge is fallacious, What they voted against was the Democrat health care reform and reform means changing something into something else.

The best analogy I can imagine is to have somebody reform your house cat into a Tasmanian Devil and then say, Look at the improvements I've made! Sure, it got into grandma's room and killed her but she was old and living on borrowed time anyway.

---

06 Jun 11 - 02:20 AM (#3165800)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Sawzaw: (Quoting from Leo J. Seney, letter to the editor): "The best analogy I can imagine is to have somebody reform your house cat into a Tasmanian Devil and then say, Look at the improvements I've made!"

It reminds me of a tiger changing it's stripes, like Senator Robert Carlyle Byrd, once head of the KKK, and leader of other Southern Democrats, known for their extreme racial views of Negroes in the south. The changing of the stripes were merely for political expediency, not reflecting a change of heart!!!

GfS

---

06 Jun 11 - 03:17 PM (#3166110)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

How do you know what was in Robert Byrd's heart, GfinS???

Me thinks you need to work more on what is in yers and leave other folk's hearts the heck alone...

Robert Bryd exhibited remorse for the last 50 years of his life and I saw him physically interact with black people in a manner that sho nuff looked genuine... BTW, Robert Bryd did not need the black vote for re-election... That is a very important FACT in trying to see into a man's inner values...

B~

---

06 Jun 11 - 09:31 PM (#3166268)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobsy: "Me thinks you need to work more on what is in yers and leave other folk's hearts the heck alone...

Robert Bryd exhibited remorse for the last 50 years of his life and I saw him physically interact with black people in a manner that sho nuff looked genuine... BTW, Robert Bryd did not need the black vote for re-election..."

..and you DID???....I guess you can see into Obama's heart, too, because you sure seem to like him...while a lot of people in America are remembering the old adage, "If a man cheats you once, shame on him. If he cheats you twice shame on YOU!"

Now as to the 'remorse', you claim to have seen....you think because he had 'bad thoughts' that he was so remorseful about??...or maybe things that happened, under his watch, at the ol' KKK that he knows about...and never came clean about it?
Gosh, do you think you'd ever 'forgive' Sarah Palin for favoring the Tea Party??...the same way you'd just lick Byrd's boots?...Maybe Sawzaw is right. You might have needs to probe him about that...I thought he was beginning to make some interesting points, there.
But what the hell do I know..about the old small fish...there are bigger one's that need some fryin', at present.
BTW, I KNEW you were going to ask me about seeing into people's hearts.....did a pretty good job with Oblabbo's..didn't I....when a lot of you couldn't or wouldn't see it......three years ago....
Just like in music.....'Speed is a bi-product of accuracy!'

GfS

---

07 Jun 11 - 12:58 AM (#3166319)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,TIA

"Gosh, do you think you'd ever 'forgive' Sarah Palin for favoring the Tea Party??..."

When she renounces, I will listen for sincerity, and believe if I hear it.

Shall I hold my breath?

---

07 Jun 11 - 06:10 PM (#3166746)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST

Poster is Bobert.

Reset your cookie, Bobert!! -Joe O-

---

Yeah, GfinS... World of difference here...

Robert Byrd renounced his bad...

Plain loves hers...

B~

---

07 Jun 11 - 09:35 PM (#3166837)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Yeah, GfinS... World of difference here...
Robert Byrd renounced his bad...
Plain loves hers..."

Bobert: "How do you know what was in Robert Byrd's heart, GfinS???"

I'm apparently better at it than you!...so....here's a little tune for you. Your two posts earned it!!!


For Bobert......except these guys smoke..........(music)

See ya',

GfS

---

08 Jun 11 - 01:23 AM (#3166903)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Mr Byrd continued to make racist statements after his "metamorphosis" so I assume that was what was in his heart.

---

08 Jun 11 - 05:12 AM (#3166965)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well Sawzaw, I guess you're NOT a Democrap, or you would have ignored that,....along with a lot of other stuff.

It's not the Democrats or Republicans, in general, its the rabid believers of both parties, that have been blinded, to wrong. They only point fingers across the street, instead of cleaning up their side!

GfS

---

08 Jun 11 - 12:51 PM (#3167160)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

GfS: . . . return America to a Constitutionally based government, that gets it's nose, and sticky fingers, out of our personal lives . . .

Here's the once-a-year post from GfS that I agree with. Tell me, Guest, does this include having the government stop telling us who we can marry and who we can't? How far does stopping government interference in our personal lives go for you?

---

08 Jun 11 - 03:32 PM (#3167232)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

John, The government does not have the right to change the definition of words, and meanings, just to suit a political agenda, and use the term 'civil rights' to cover any number of behavioural preferences, that are not stipulated beyond race, creed, or color....read it yourself.

GfS

---

08 Jun 11 - 04:26 PM (#3167252)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Yes, yes, GfS, I've heard it all before. How does that fit with getting the government out of our private lives? It sounds like you want the government out of our lives until something comes along that you don't like and then you want legislation that suits your likes and dislikes. The reason the government is in our private lives is because people like you keep yelling for it to be there. Add up enough people's likes and dislikes and add legislation to all of them, and you end up with a repressive society.

By the way, the Constitution doesn't say anything about who can marry who. Are you a strict constructionist or not? What, exactly, does the "Land of the Free" mean to you?

Lastly, I want the government to stop telling us who we can marry because it's wrong, not because it's part of some political agenda. If you want to talk to a political agenda, go find a website where a political agenda visits, and argue with it. If you want to be here, you'll have to settle for talking with individuals, and actually responding to what they say instead of allowing yourself to ignore them because you think they have been brain-washed by a political agenda.

So, care to respond to I actually said? Using ideas that don't involve reading into the Constitution something that isn't there?

---

08 Jun 11 - 06:32 PM (#3167317)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Dear John,

"Hey Joe Offer, I opened 'Mudcat' to find a post, which I partly agree with...BUT I did NOT post that post...I also saw one in the 'BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??'(From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:32 PM) in which I wholeheartedly agree, but I did not author that post. You can leave it up or not, but if you leave it up, leave this one as well.
To whomever is using 'Guest from Sanity' to post your thoughts on, have the guts to use your own monicker.

Joe, if you remove the posts, please archive them, in case the situation arises, in which it may be need shown, that they are NOT from me!"



Thank you.

GfS

P.S. I DO really agree with the 'Tea Party' (Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:32 PM) post, though!"

THAT BEING SAID THOUGH:
John P: "Yes, yes, GfS, I've heard it all before."

Well you have a problem then with comprehension, and discerning facts...which you have to deal with!

Topic on this thread is the 'Tea Party'........Well you have a problem then with comprehension, and discerning facts...which you have to deal with!

GfS

---

I can't identify the source of the 3:32 PM post - it looks to me like it comes from GfS, but maybe not. One of the many reasons why it's best to register as a member and post only as a member. If you post as a Guest, we can't offer you much protection - and certainly can't give any assurance as to your identity as a poster. If you are a Guest, you are always suspect, because we have no assurance of your identity.
-Joe Offer-

P.S. We archive ALL deleted posts.

---

08 Jun 11 - 08:45 PM (#3167359)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yes, the topic of the thread is the Tea Party and as John has pointed out the Tea Party is perfectly willing to let the government tell you who to marry, to interfere with medical procedures, to legislate morals, etc... They are no unlike the Taliban in that respect...Like the Taliban they want the government to inlfict and enforce their particular set of values...

John's question is quite relevant to this discussion...

I mean, the entire left v. right thing has to do with government... The right can not have it both ways... Government isn't like a menu at a resturant... We either believe that government does some things very well and let it do it or we have Mad Max After the Thunderdome...

B~

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08 Jun 11 - 09:17 PM (#3167374)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

BTW, Sawz...

Just because you have found another rightie to buddy up with in GfinS it doesn't change the fact that I have answered your questions...

You just don't like the answer so you keep asking over and over and over...

B~

---

08 Jun 11 - 09:55 PM (#3167384)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

GfS, is there any chance at all that you will just have a discussion without all the insults? You can tell me in your bizarre prose that I'm stupid all you want to, but your failure to address any of the issues on the table says a lot more about you than you say about me.

I agree with Bobert that talking about what our American freedoms really mean is completely germaine to a thread about the Tea Party.

What do you have to say for your contradictory statements about the role that the government should play in our personal lives? How about you claiming that we should follow the Constitution and then trying to use a Constitutional argument to say some American should be treated differently under the law than other Americans? How about your profession of Christianity while your posts are full vitriol and mean-spiritedness?

Come up with some answers or prove yourself lost in a fog composed of a complete lack of integrity.

Oh, and if you don't want your identity spoofed, join the organization. Better yet, man up and sign your name.

---

08 Jun 11 - 10:12 PM (#3167389)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Latest thing now, John, is that 6 states, thanks to those on the right side of the political divide, are poised to make birth-control pills illegal??? Talk about the Taliban???

This is mostly because the Tea Party is emboldened... Hey, if that's the America Sawz and GfinS want then, hey, I'd like for them to come right out and say, "I want government in my bedroom"...

That's the madness of this entire debate... GfinS & Sawz would love nothing more than two sets of laws... One for them and another for everyone else... But no matter, they want the government to enforce the stuff against me that they think I'm doing that they don't like but they don't want the government enforcing nuthin' on them...

This is called hypocrisy of the highest order in my book..

B~

---

08 Jun 11 - 11:19 PM (#3167410)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

So, i take it that you two think that anything outside of your stupidity is a 'rightie'.
It is your brand of brain-locked partisanship, that divides the country, when there was so much work to be done. Even James Carville, another southern Democrap, disagrees with you...but you just keep heading on.
You remind me of someone who programs a failure, to give themselves a reason to pick up the bottle again, to 'soothe' their hurt feelings of feeling sorry for themselves. even if they stop drinking, they are still addicted to the mind-set, of programming failures.
At present, we, as a nation are in dire straights, that go further back than Bush, the most recent scapegoat for Oblabbo, who had the inability to lead us out of anything, but instead just made it worse.
If you cannot see that, then you have an unbelievable ability to not see reality. This is NOT a party issue! Both parties are bought and paid for by the same people. This is becoming more evident with every day that passes. If Obama was half a decent 'leader' he would level with the American people, As it is now, you might start brushing up on your Mandarin.
We are on the verge of a financial collapse, and the other nitwit wants to discuss the difference between homosexuality and men and women getting married, and raising their own children. If you are so interested, and need to goad your imagination, I'm pretty sure Anthony Wiener's pictures are somewhere posted on the net. I'm sure once you find them, maybe your hands will be so busy, you might spare us from typing such idiocy!

OKAY, Now you can go back to your obsoleted Democrap 'talking points'...but really, you've already convinced a lot of people on here, that you cannot think for yourselves. Spare us the empty rhetoric, It's not working.

GfS

---

08 Jun 11 - 11:20 PM (#3167411)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

One thing I'd like to hear from GfS—and I've asked him a couple of times without his deigning to respond—is just exactly what lies has Barack Obama told that inspires him to insist on vociferously calling Obama a liar?

It's easy enough to make all kinds of wild accusations (quite a bit of that going around), but one really should have some reason for such charges beyond merely disliking the person one is accusing.

Substantiation with documentation, please.

Don Firth

---

08 Jun 11 - 11:41 PM (#3167414)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

By the way, GfS, you're going to have to do better than merely quoting or linking to the "Obama lies" web sites. They all contain such allegations as his supposedly lying about his birth certificate and where he was born. That's long since been shot down in flames.

Or picking on things that he said he intended to do, but a Republican dominated Congress hasn't allowed him to do, or things that once he got into office he discovered that they simply would not be wise to do.

Every president has those kinds of problems, and to say that the president "lied" is nothing more than taking a cheap shot.

No sale on that sort of nonsense.

Don Firth

---

09 Jun 11 - 12:05 AM (#3167422)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don, You must have missed this one.
I suspect you'll disregard it, as well:

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 01:53 AM

Everything is cool Don...thanks for the reconsideration. By the way, your interest in music IS your greatest weapon!

Sawzaw, Thank you for your post!!..Maybe some die hard 'liberals' will see that the Democrats are far to full of bullshit, to represent even them!!
Lying, corrupt bastards!

..and to Joe Offer, you asked me a little while ago, to list the lies that Obama has told. So rather than, use MY list, I have a VERY liberal/progressive friend, a HUGE bluegrass and folk supporter, what he thought. To say the least, he is very disillusioned about the present administration, and hates Republicans with a passion. (makes Bobert seen like a Cub Scout!). Though he and his 'other half' avidly resents Christians, Conservatives, Zionists, Multi-national banking concerns, and they run a small business, in a small town..I thought, 'What a great person to ask, for his list'! Though we have greatly disagreed with each other in the past, and they actively supported Obama, at present, they are pretty pissed off at him! Through all this time, of huge disagreements, we have remained good friends, because all in all, we know each others hearts..and they are good and sincere people....(though I've contended that they have also been sincerely wrong...but that's another issue)...here is his list, of lies, from the Obama administration:

1. Vowed NOT to take outside money for his campaign..but reversed
   himself.
2. Transparency.
3. Campaigned that NO lobbyists would have a cabinet position.
4. Gitmo.
5. Was going to decrease the Mid-East war, then invades Afghanistan.
6. Extended Bush tax cuts, when he said he wasn't.
7. Single payer health care plan.
8. Said he was going to go after big pharma.
9. Bailouts to stimulate the economy, but gave it to his banker
   cronies.
10.Unemployment would not be above 8%.
11.Military tribunals.
12.Being against the 'Patriot Act', then extends it. (Joe Biden one of
   it's authors.)
13.OBL details, and false press releases and lying in his speech to
   the country. (again transparency)
14.Reneged on energy policy.
15.Claimed France was our closest ally.
16...and he finished with the verbatim quote, "Go back, and look at
   his campaign promises..he broke about every one of them!"

Now, that being said, some of his broken promises, were OK with me, as to what he actually DID do...and once again, my friend and I still disagree..BUT, you asked me to list the lies, and so I did.
Jeez, my friend, for being so 'progressive' makes me look tame!...and I never thought of myself as being 'progressive'...but even back then, during the primaries, and my dated posts prove it, I clocked this guy as being a lying sack of 'manure'...and if you remember, I was calling him,'O-blabbo'.
Fair enough?
Shit, he even signed the guestbook at Westminster Abby with the wrong year!!...I think he is stuck in 2008, when he won the election...and that's ALL he cared about!(private observation)
..............................................AND:

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 02:01 AM

Oh, and let me add one lie of Obama, of my own.
Swore to uphold the Constitution..then goes to war with Libya, and circumvents going to Congress!..at all!
As far as I'm concerned, that is an impeachable offense!!!

GfS

---

09 Jun 11 - 12:20 AM (#3167429)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Joe Offer

GfS - you posted your list of so-called "lies" once in this thread already. Do you have some cogent reason for posting them a second time, and in the same thread?

Reminds me of Pope John Paul II, who was often known to quote himself as verification of the information he was promoting.

Self-quotation may well be a symptom of advanced narcissism.

-Joe-

---

09 Jun 11 - 12:35 AM (#3167434)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Ol' Don Firth requested I post them again. I'm surprised he didn't just read them earlier in the thread.
I know it would 'normally' be unnecessary to post them repeatedly..it seems that no matter how many times something is said to them, they just don't get it.
BTW, You are the one who first requested them...but never responded. You didn't like them?

For what it's worth....neither did I. It's just too bad that there were so many flagrant lies to list...and there is still more.
All things considered, John McCain would have not been much of an improvement, either....and with heavy sadness, I'm depressed at the shape of our country, and am resigned to the fact, that it may well implode to a nation of chaos, financial and moral collapse, and eventually fall.

Sorry to end on a bummer note...but I'm feeling that this all may happen immanently....and all by design.

GfS

---

09 Jun 11 - 12:44 AM (#3167435)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Sorry, GfS, but all of the "lies" you cite fall under what I outlined in my post of 08 Jun 11 - 11:41 p.m. as spurious. That sort of loose criterion for "lying" can be applied to every elected official in the country since the country's very beginning—and has, by political opponents. Pure flatus.

You sound like a commentator for Fox News. You're going to have to do a bit better than that.

Don Firth

P. S. I'll leave you the rest of the night to work it out. I'm going to bed.

---

09 Jun 11 - 12:56 AM (#3167437)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

As per aforementioned, the list was from a 'very rigid progressive' friend of mine....who, BTW HATES Fox 'news'. The only one that I listed as my own, was the last one.

Sweet dreams...unless you went to bed already, in which case, Good Morning!

I knew you'd disregard them....Surely, you can't defend them...only blame someone else(Fox, in this case).

Bobert could only do as much, so at least you have company!

GfS

---

09 Jun 11 - 01:31 AM (#3167446)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

No, I'm not disregarding them. But I've heard them all before. Mainly from Fox News--or rather, those who watch it a lot (but I note that you've already attempted to cover your rear on that one).

I was just wondering if you could come up with anything of substance, that hasn't already been cobbled up by Right Wing commentators. Guess not.

Nighty night. More tomorrow. My take on Obama.

Don (yawn) Firth

---

09 Jun 11 - 09:18 AM (#3167616)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

OK, GfS, I declare myself the winner of the debate. You cannont, in fact, post without including insults. You can't make any response to the our rebuttals of the things we say. You lose.

---

09 Jun 11 - 06:48 PM (#3168003)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

As to the allegation that Barack Obama is a liar, I believe that is more than adequately dealt with

HERE.

As to violating the Constitution by circumventing Congress and going to war with Libya, let me remind you that this is not an American operation, it is a NATO operation, and the United States is a signatory to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. A few less-than-well-informed people have squawked that "the U. S. fired 110 Tomahawk missiles at Libyia." Not so! The Tomahawk missiles were U. S. made, but they were fired from British ships. France actually led the attack, and the part the United States played in this was to take out the Libyan air defenses. No "boots on the ground" and nothing attacked by the U. S. except Libyan military installations.

As a member of NATO and of the United Nations, the United States has obligations. Congress, after all, approved these memberships some decades back.

I know a number of hard-charging progressives who are unhappy with Obama, having expected that he would have accomplished far more on a progressive agenda than he has by now. But the rude fact is that he DOES have to go by the Constitution, and that precludes him from simply issuing edicts from the Oval Office. He must tell the Congress what he wants, they deliberate, and either do or do not do what it is he asks of them. Congress has shat all over practically everything he has requested and fought him every inch of the way.

That, sports fans, is the way it works. Or does not work!

That's why it's essential for citizens not to just focus on the Presidential candidate, but to choose and work hard for Senators and Congressional Representatives that will support and back the Presidential candidate of their choice.

I was hoping that Obama would get far more done than he has by now, especially a GOOD national health plan. There are countries all over the world (including Taiwan and Thailand) that have excellent health coverage for their citizens, and the fact that a country like the United States that prides itself on being a world leader should have such abysmally poor health care coverage for its citizens as we do is just bloody pathetic! And shameful! The fact that we no not is not Obama's fault. He tried! So put the onus where it really belongs!!

Yes, Obama tried. But Congress and great wads of health insurance company money fought him every inch of the way. And NOW the buggers want to take away Medicare as a budget-balancing measure! (Talk about "death panels", fer cryin' out loud!)

My problem with Obama is that he has wasted time and energy trying to build consensus and get cooperation from the very people who a hell-bent on seeing to it that he fails.

What Obama needs to do is to stop playing Mr. Nice Guy and kick some butt!!

Where is Harry Truman when we need him!??

Don Firth

P. S. There is much to be said for third parties. BUT—ONLY if the country ALSO has preferential voting. Ralph Nader managed to rob Al Gore of a sufficient percentage of votes that, had it not been for his splitting the vote, Gore would have had enough votes outright to go over the top against Bush (instead of handing it to Katherine Harris, who fed it to a conservative Supreme Court who decided in favor of Bush rather than authorizing the asked-for recount).   

You've got to keep up with this stuff, GfS!

By the way, if you don't know what preferemtial voting is, look it up. Several countries have it and it solves a lot of problems. Particularly Tweedledum and Tweedledee two-party systems.

---

10 Jun 11 - 02:14 AM (#3168179)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well Don, I don't know what that was about...and none of the stuff you listed in the Snopes deal even addressed my post and the list I gave you. What the hell was that about?? Is this another one of your 'shift the subject' to rebut what you are talking about, so you can avoid answering what I was talking about??..However, I'll give you credit for conceding that Obama is falling down in a few areas.
As for the Fox news deal, in my other post, about the stimulus, I provided links to YouTube, and CBS news..not FOX, so I don't know what that was about. If Obama can't 'fix' a problem, he blames Bush. If a story comes out, that is true, that points out some lying on the part of Obama, even if it's from CBS, you blame FOX ??!!??..and you can't address it without having to concede that the story is true. What is that shit?
Instead of everybody blaming anything within 'blaming distance', why not look at the story, and ask yourself, "Is it true, or not?"...if its not, then it's a 'Republican spin'....if its true, then it's fox's spin. This is pretty asinine, don't you think?
As far as NATO, that is a slick cop out...but still unconstitutional. Whether we have an alliance or not, I don't think we just 'buddy up' with some folks, from other countries, to attack an 'enemy', when that 'enemy' hasn't attacked us, or a member country...and we still have to go to Congress.

As far as John P's assertion that he declares himself a 'winner' of something..I wasn't aware we were playing, or competing in anything...so, maybe he can award himself a cigar. Check and see if Bill Clinton's old one has dried out yet. He can award it to you...if Monica will give it back to him.(I heard she has if framed on her kitchen wall, over the stove). Next time, you want to get into some, well,... whatever you want to call it, see if you can send someone, in your behalf to represent your point of view....maybe even define it. But, I hope you got a little enjoyment, over feeling good about something....whatever that was (about). Some people even cheat at solitaire, but really, who cares?..BTW, when you play with yourself, do you ever 'win'?..(Notice, I didn't 'insult' you..just asked you questions.)

As far as Bush and Obama...same policies, different faces, to give the illusion that the 'liberals' are getting somewhere. Next it'll be the conservatives, as soon as they find a puppet to make a celebrity out of!

Once again, Good Morning Don.

GfS

---

10 Jun 11 - 12:21 PM (#3168457)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

It was a joke, son. And thank you for finally actually saying something relevant, with a minimum of insults. I would love to discuss these issues with you if you could bring yourself to engage in real back and forth and to talk about the issues instead of the people you're talking to. All my experience indicates that I don't have any reason to harbor any hopes of that in your case, however, other than the observation that folks do sometimes get better at communication.

Wanna give it a try? Here's the question: How do you reconcile a desire to protect and further the freedoms of individual American citizens with a desire for some of them to be treated differently when it comes to marriage and all the legal benefits that come with it? Any answer, just to avoid covering old ground, has to include the fact that it is unconstitutional for us to pass laws based on religion, the Constitution doesn't mention marriage, and it does guarantee us equal treatment under the law.

---

10 Jun 11 - 02:43 PM (#3168514)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

GfS, you know bloody well what that is all about. And everything I said in that post is to the point and answers the questions. You can't negate the truth simply by feigning ignorance.

You can try to slither out from under the facts, but others here can read for themselves and make up their own minds.

Try dealing with the real world for a change. You may find it refreshing.

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, if you think Snopes is wrong, let's see a point-by-point, alleged lie-by-alleged lie refutation of their refutation. You got the guts for a project like that?

---

10 Jun 11 - 05:06 PM (#3168595)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don: "You can't negate the truth simply by feigning ignorance."

I wasn't..and quit making up stuff as to what I'm doing! THIS is what I said: "..and none of the stuff you listed in the Snopes deal even addressed my post and the list I gave you. What the hell was that about??"

Instead of addressing the Obama lies I posted, you post up a bunch of other stuff, and then go on about IT! It's a stupid ploy..and I will NOT play! Address what I posted, before we go on ANY longer!

John P, Re-read this one. You will find it strictly factual. Other than what is posted on this post, I feel NO NEED to further this topic! BTW, when I posted this before, nobody addressed it then!

Subject: RE: Equal Rights for Gay Marriage
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:33 AM

GfS

---

10 Jun 11 - 05:14 PM (#3168603)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Okay, GfS, fasten your seat belt.

1. Vowed NOT to take outside money for his campaign..but reversed
   himself.

What do you mean by "outside money," and who did he take it from? Martians?

2. Transparency.

That's pretty vague. What do you mean by "transparency?"

3. Campaigned that NO lobbyists would have a cabinet position.

There are lobbyists and lobbyists. Emissaries with a valise full of money from fat-cats to buy the favors of politicians are called "lobbyists." Private citizens who merely buttonhole a politician and call his attention to a concern—but have no money to offer—are ALSO called "lobbyists." Which cabinet members are you referring to and who have they lobbied for?

4. Gitmo.

On-going problem started by Bush. What exactly is Obama supposed to do about it. Close it? Simply release suspected terrorists? If you have a solution to that situation, maybe you'd better write Obama a letter and tell him what it is.

5. Was going to decrease the Mid-East war, then invades Afghanistan.

History lesson, GfS: Afghanistan was invaded during the Bush administration. Remember? You want to blame that on Obama? So do the Republicans.

6. Extended Bush tax cuts, when he said he wasn't.

HE didn't extend the tax cuts, Congress did. Remember?

7. Single payer health care plan.

He sure gave it a shot. But Congress immediately went to work ripping it to shreds. Remember?

8. Said he was going to go after big pharma.

Part of the health care plan he tried to put across. See above.

9. Bailouts to stimulate the economy, but gave it to his banker
   cronies.

When? And which "banker cronies?" Names? Institutions?

10.Unemployment would not be above 8%.

One does one's damndest, but one doesn't always succeed. Things like unemployment rates and other things economic generally depend on circumstances beyond one's control. To say that one "intends to" or "will try to" and then for various reasons not be able to does NOT make one a "liar."

11.Military tribunals.

What about them? He's had opposition on all sides on that one, too.

12.Being against the 'Patriot Act', then extends it. (Joe Biden one of
   it's authors.)

It may very well have been a wise move under the circumstances. I don't know for sure. Neither do you.

13.OBL details, and false press releases and lying in his speech to
   the country. (again transparency)

Again, you're very vague. Specifics, please. What are you talking about?

14.Reneged on energy policy.

Tried again. BIG opposition. He's bucking BIG OIL and their cronies in Congress. Again, to try and not be able to because of the opposition doesn't mean one "reneged." Put the blame where it belongs!

15.Claimed France was our closest ally.

When did he do this? At a diplomatic dinner? What was he supposed to do, tell the French we hate their guts? Glad YOU'RE not in the ambassadorial corp. We'd be a war with everybody!

16...and he finished with the verbatim quote, "Go back, and look at
   his campaign promises..he broke about every one of them!"

DETAILS, please! That kind of general slam is right out of the mouth of Bill O'Reilly.

Sorry, no sale, GfS!

Have a nice day.

Don Firth

---

10 Jun 11 - 06:38 PM (#3168652)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

1. Vowed NOT to take outside money for his campaign..but reversed
       himself.

    What do you mean by "outside money," and who did he take it from? Martians?

No, Don, and quit trying to be pretentious. He was only going to use money allotted by the government, not by 'private'(read: 'Corporate') contributions.

A 'reversal'? ..No, he lied!
.....................................................
    2. Transparency.

    That's pretty vague. What do you mean by "transparency?"

What do you think I mean??..Again, you avoid having to state the obvious. This guy has done most everything AWAY from being transparent!

He Lied!
..................................................................
    3. Campaigned that NO lobbyists would have a cabinet position.

    There are lobbyists and lobbyists. Emissaries with a valise full of money from fat-cats to buy the favors of politicians are called "lobbyists." Private citizens who merely buttonhole a politician and call his attention to a concern—but have no money to offer—are ALSO called "lobbyists." Which cabinet members are you referring to and who have they lobbied for?

What a FUCKING SPIN!! Here, let me 'help' you:...Subject: RE: BS: Lying Bastards of the Year awards
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 11:19 PM

He lied!

.............................................................

    4. Gitmo.

    On-going problem started by Bush. What exactly is Obama supposed to do about it. Close it? Simply release suspected terrorists? If you have a solution to that situation, maybe you'd better write Obama a letter and tell him what it is.

He said he was going to close it, during his campaign. He didn't. He lied!
...................................................
    5. Was going to decrease the Mid-East war, then invades Afghanistan.

    History lesson, GfS: Afghanistan was invaded during the Bush administration. Remember? You want to blame that on Obama? So do the Republicans.

Add Libya, as well. Obama is AN EXTENSION of BUSH and his policies!..What are you?..Blind??
....................................................
    6. Extended Bush tax cuts, when he said he wasn't.

    HE didn't extend the tax cuts, Congress did. Remember?

He compromised, and signed it, didn't he...HE lied!
...................................
    7. Single payer health care plan.

    He sure gave it a shot. But Congress immediately went to work ripping it to shreds. Remember?

He compromised, and signed it, didn't he...HE lied!
...................................

    8. Said he was going to go after big pharma.

    Part of the health care plan he tried to put across. See above.
Big Pharma was catered to, by Obama, so were the insurance companies..Don't you remember????
....................................................

    9. Bailouts to stimulate the economy, but gave it to his banker
       cronies.

    When? And which "banker cronies?" Names? Institutions?

The Bankers, and multi-nationals, that's who!....Were the funds used to start jobs?..Here, let me refresh your memory:..""From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 May 11 - 10:56 PM

Two headlines on the same paper today: "FEMA faces shortfall on funds for tornado victims"

"Obama administration approves $34 million bonus for six Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae execs."

Go figure!!!"

AND:....
READ THE FIRST PARAGRAPH!!...more if you want too!

He lied!
.....................................

    10.Unemployment would not be above 8%.

    One does one's damndest, but one doesn't always succeed. Things like unemployment rates and other things economic generally depend on circumstances beyond one's control. To say that one "intends to" or "will try to" and then for various reasons not be able to does NOT make one a "liar."

See above! (#9)
...................................
    11.Military tribunals.

    What about them? He's had opposition on all sides on that one, too... They're still here, aren't they? He lied!..Even though, personally, I'm more in favor of them, than civil trials for his terrorist buds.
......................................

    12.Being against the 'Patriot Act', then extends it. (Joe Biden one of
       it's authors.)

    It may very well have been a wise move under the circumstances. I don't know for sure. Neither do you.

If he said he would repeal it, and didn't, that's called a lie!. Being as Biden was one of the chief authors, of it, I'm sure he NEVER was intending to repeal it!
He lied!
.......................................

    13.OBL details, and false press releases and lying in his speech to
       the country. (again transparency)

    Again, you're very vague. Specifics, please. What are you talking about?

Are you pretending that you don't remember the accounts that the White House released of the OBL raid?..Here: Start at the top, and read the ever changing 'accounts' including his speech, to the nation! ....BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
He lied through his teeth!....remember he was armed, then unarmed, the shoved one of his ol' ladies at the seals, then didn't....etc. etc


    14.Reneged on energy policy.

    Tried again. BIG opposition. He's bucking BIG OIL and their cronies in Congress. Again, to try and not be able to because of the opposition doesn't mean one "reneged." Put the blame where it belongs!

"...He's bucking BIG OIL..."
Yeah, I remember 'bucking' BP!



    15.Claimed France was our closest ally.

    When did he do this? At a diplomatic dinner? What was he supposed to do, tell the French we hate their guts? Glad YOU'RE not in the ambassadorial corp. We'd be a war with everybody!

THE ONLY REASON YOU DON'T CLOCK THEM AS LIES, IS BECAUSE YOU STILL BELIEVE THEM!...SO, AS LONG AS YOU ARE DECEIVED, AND ARE MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM, TO YOU THEY 'SEEM' LIKE TRUTHS. That just shows how far off, and deluded you, and your ilk are!!!

STICK TO MUSIC!!...At least there is some sort of truth to base something you 'believe' in on!

BTW, have a nice day, as well!..(waving)

GfS

---

10 Jun 11 - 09:07 PM (#3168701)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Joe Offer

Gees.
GfS felt the compulsion to post his list of so-called "lies" yet again. Well, let me tell you about those so-called "lies" - I don't think his positions during the campaign were as ironclad as your biased editing makes them out to be. Certainly, Mr. Obama has moderated his stance since he confronted the reality of serving as President of an ideologically-diverse republic. He has tried to take even your point of view into consideration. Would you want him to do otherwise?
Would you?

Do we want a President who attempts to serve ALL of the people, or should he insist on serving only those who share his ideology?
-Joe-

---

10 Jun 11 - 09:21 PM (#3168707)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Joe, you can't reach a reasoned accommodation with a lunatic- but nice try.

---

10 Jun 11 - 09:29 PM (#3168712)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Just because you have found another rightie to buddy up with in GfinS it doesn't change the fact that I have answered your questions"

Bobert goes to such great lengths to avoid answering questions.

When all else fails, he keeps repeating over and over that he answered it. Then comes accusations of bullying, stalking, insanity, anything other than answering the question. This is how Bobert defends his "facts".

Huff Puff Blow Blow Blow

Bobert has never answered the question of who said "So ya'll righties want to see the country sink further in the recession to get the "nigga" out???"

The only answer I have seen is "Ive heard that" From whom Bobert?

You are the one that made up that racist, hateful statement. It is obvious because it begins refers to "righties".

Are you saying that a "rightie" asked the question?

---

10 Jun 11 - 10:20 PM (#3168731)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Joe, First of all, I didn't 're-list' my list of lies, but copied and pasted Don's, so I could, as requested, answer them.
Second, As I said when I listed my original list of lies, given to me by someone, far more 'left' and 'progressive' than Don, I said, in that post, that some of the 'reversals'(if you will), I was glad, that they happened...instead of what he originally said, when he was bullshitting the electorate.
Third, and this one is for Don, #'s 7&14, you go on to 'blame' Congress...That's bullshit! The Democratic Congress was a huge majority at the time, Don't you remember?..They could do ANYTHING that they wanted....and they did.

To Sawzaw, Sawzaw: "Bobert goes to such great lengths to avoid answering questions."

He ain't the only one!!!!!!!! Most of them employ the same avoidance tactic...but they are NOT fooling anyone. They are, in fact, as Greg says, "..reach a reasoned accommodation with a lunatic- but nice try."..others of like minded, denial.

Look, I'm not down on just Obama. This shit has been going on through several administrations...so tightly, that one has to stretch logic into a pretzel, to even imagine that it's not orchestrated, from the 'higher ups' to whom they take their marching orders...(and money)...This is, and has been true, with the 'Republicans' as well as the 'Democrats'. I maintain, that BOTH of them are NOT representing us, or even 'looking out' for the well-being, of our country, and just as soon shred the Constitution up to even smaller bits of confetti, than they both have.The America we once knew, is just an obstacle, to their 'clients'!!!

GfS

GfS

---

10 Jun 11 - 11:23 PM (#3168752)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Amazing! I haven't seen such tap dancing since Fred Astaire's last movie!!

Hopeless!

Don Firth

---

10 Jun 11 - 11:27 PM (#3168754)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Are your feet tired? You must be dizzy, too!

GfS

---

11 Jun 11 - 12:59 AM (#3168769)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I'm not much of a dancer. Never was.

But I read a lot. And pay attention to what's going on in the world. And think.

Bed time. Ta ta.

Don Firth

---

11 Jun 11 - 01:20 AM (#3168772)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don: "I'm not much of a dancer. Never was."

Maybe you just never had the opportunity to have a great instructor point out when you are tripping over your own feet!

I was going to bring on the 'Mudcat Vaudeville Magic Show', and let you explain the slight of hand magic tricks to our beloved audience...but that might be in tomorrow's gig!
Stay tuned! Don will have full reign to explain all the tricks of mystical prestidigitation from 'The World of Sanity', and he will tell you how I do it!..I thought that this, or the next post was going to take us there. This should be a real fun treat for the whole family!

Yes, Ladies and Gentlemen..Come one, come all. For the first time on any stage on earth, a Democratic liberal 'activist' will make sense out of Sanity!...(That should be a magic show, all by itself!)

Go for it!..Just give me the word.

GfS

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11 Jun 11 - 10:25 AM (#3168897)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don: "P. S. "Scuse me, please. Past my bedthime. ....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......"

Hours ago!

wink!
GfS

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12 Jun 11 - 02:14 AM (#3169160)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Ya. might learn something, of interest!..Love to see the 'list'


Not TOO related......but then.....

GfS

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12 Jun 11 - 09:30 AM (#3169293)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Good grief!!!

Arthur Murray invades the CatBox...

Jus' funnin'....

When I get fully rested up I'll come 'round and maybe show ya'll a few of my fancy dance steps... lol...

B~

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12 Jun 11 - 01:44 PM (#3169379)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Stick to dancing away from the lawnmower!

The last post, was NOT the 'Mudcat Vaudeville Magic Show'..BUT I thought it was interesting that they want to arrest Henry Kissinger in Switzerland for war crimes. Also that Rick Perry is the guy they want to push on the Republicans, and Hilary was in attendance, along with a 'few more financial luminaries' from BOTH parties who are going to decide about the war in the mid-east. It goes to show, that our policies have NOTHING to do with party politics, but rather how we are being manipulated, into thinking, (well for SOME of us), that your 'political hate speech' has NOTHING to do with what is going on!!
BtW, I got those links from 'The Drudge Report'.
I hope they arrest him, and blow this whole thing WIDE open, so maybe some of our skeptical naysayers come to an 'epiphany'..and stop being such blocked 'goose-eggs'!!!...maybe even remember that we are ALL Americans, and on the same side...and that the 'divisions' are delusional products of CORPORATE OWNED media propaganda, financed by the multinational, conglomerate, globalists...another 'BTW'...see the headline, that China says that we are defaulting on our loans from them??
Time to CUT BACK the spending and borrowing, boys and girls!! Time to return our manufacturing base back to home, and use OUR resources!!

.....but then if one utters those things, the left will accuse someone of it being a 'rightie' plot!..Good grief!.....Then you wonder why I think there are some morons out there who can't see or reason past their TV cartoon news!!!..or mass propaganda for children.

Wavin' to ya'!

GfS

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12 Jun 11 - 02:46 PM (#3169412)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Bilderberg.

Oh, yeah! Conspiring to form a One World Government.

But—one should not forget all the other conspiracies. There are the International Bankers, the Illuminati, the Jesuits, The Armenian International Conspiracy, the Knights Templars, the Vatican, the Masons, the Southern Baptist Leadership Conference, the Brotherhood of the Protocols of Zion, the Great White Brotherhood, the Eurabia Conspiracy, and many others.

Aiding and abetting these conspiracies are the secret agencies who operate such devices as HAARP, which controls our weather and caused the Japanese earthquake. And the agency responsible for Chemtrails, which spreads chemicals on the world's population to keep them dull-witted. But the most insidious of these agencies is the Girl Scouts of America, who sell obedience-inducing drugs disguised as chocolate chips in their cookies.

All THESE conspiracies, however, are merely to cover up what is REALLY going on.

The source of all of these world conspiracies?

Reptilians from the Hollow Earth. They originated when a group of smaller dinosaurs took refuge in large caves when the "dinosaur killer" meteorite struck the earth 65,000,000 years ago. They discovered passageways to the great hollow interior of the earth, where they have since lived and evolved into intelligent, technological beings, and are implementing their master plan to take the earth back from humans.

Now, HERE is the deep, dark secret! Have you noticed that Barack Obama has a kind of sibilance in his speech? The way he pronounces his "S's?" That's a dead giveaway! He was not born in Kenya, nor was he born in Indonesia. He was not even born in Hawaii!

He was born in the Hollow Earth! He is a Reptilian!! And he is the main agent for the Reptilian Master Conspiracy, and his purpose is to gain power and do whatever is necessary to pave the way for the dinosaurs to storm out of their refuge deep in the planet's interior and retake the earth from humans!!

Now, you know the HORRIBLE TRUTH!!

Don Firth

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12 Jun 11 - 03:22 PM (#3169439)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Following on Sawzaw's post just above, I have already gone on record as NOT belonging to ANY political party. Nor do I embrace the platform of any particular party. My political positions and beliefs are based on carefully thought out philosophical and ethical positions. So whenever someone tries to slap some kind of predigested political label on me, they don't know what they're talking about.

Don Firth

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12 Jun 11 - 03:41 PM (#3169451)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

Anyone who brings a loaded weapon to a political rally to make a point is a terrorist.

People do not understand the Second Amendment.

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12 Jun 11 - 08:41 PM (#3169614)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

This is all so funny...

Today was one of them three tee-shirts days from the humidity here in NC and I just didn't want to put on anything dark because of the sun so the last one I grabbed and am still wearing is my "Nader/2000" teeshirt... On the back it reads, "Bush and Gore make me want to RALPH"...

But, yeah, I guess that the Green Party is still a party so I guess that makes me, ahhhh...

...guilty by GfinS's definition...

BTW, I am not a Democrat, GfinS... I am just "ABR" (anyone but republicans) these days because in spite of your wrong-headed "very Republican" mantra that both parties are exactly the same, they aren't... At least, now they aren't... They parted ways purdy good after the 2000 election... Yes, some of the Blue Dogs Democrats are the same as Repubs but take the Blue Dogs out of the equation and the other Dems stand quite apart form the Repubs (at least this batch of Repubs) who are intent on dismantling (starve the beast) the federal government... That is the battle line right now... Stop the radicals before they cause so much damage that we can't repair it!!!

Period...

If this was an emergency room, what the Repubs are trying to do is equivalent to having a gun shot victim come thru the door and a guy waiting with a tooth ache... I'm going to treat the gun shot first... Same as we have going on here... One party is trying to make the country fail...

Every billion that the Repubs can strip out of the federal budget equals 100,000 jobs... This ain't made up stuff.. This is reality... The Repubs want as much unemployment as they can get and are using phony baloney BS about deficits to get as much unemployment as they can before the next election...

They say the election is all about jobs... Yeah, what they don't tell you is that they want as many people out of work as possible???

Repubs want America to ***fail***...

You might not want to see it that way but they have already said their #1 goal is to get Obama out of their White House... They are pushing every button to screw up the recovery...

Cutting taxes even more is total 100% bullshit!!!

It has failed miserably...

If you have some insights on how putting another million leeches on the US government is going to fix any thing then please share it with *US*...

B~

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13 Jun 11 - 08:54 AM (#3169827)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The Tea Party is very much the heart and soul of the Republican Party and the Tea Party is made up of the same old Dixiecrats and KKKers...

Now that is bigotry in the purest of sense...

B~

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14 Jun 11 - 02:52 AM (#3170284)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST

Wow! was that a 'magic' show!!!..You made the topic disappear , and replaced it with blithering blather, designed to cause blindness and hateful divisions!
Bobert sounds like he's had 53 cups of espresso, and with one foot nailed to the floor, is excitedly running around in circles, barking DNC promo mantras.

Don is blaming FOX for a CBS link and YouTube link(two separate ones, not related to FOX) and frothing about hollow earth conspiracies!..My advice is to "Take two, make it 6, of these and get PLENTY of rest!"

This one is for Bobert and Don....About as heavy as you've been relating


For others who clock what is going on.......Promo clip is the original

Lovingly,

GfS

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14 Jun 11 - 02:54 AM (#3170285)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Wow! was that a 'magic' show!!!..You made the topic disappear , and replaced it with blithering blather, designed to cause blindness and hateful divisions!
Bobert sounds like he's had 53 cups of espresso, and with one foot nailed to the floor, is excitedly running around in circles, barking DNC promo mantras.

Don is blaming FOX for a CBS link and YouTube link(two separate ones, not related to FOX) and frothing about hollow earth conspiracies!..My advice is to "Take two, make it 6, of these and get PLENTY of rest!"

This one is for Bobert and Don....About as heavy as you've been relating


For others who clock what is going on.......Promo clip is the original

Lovingly,

GfS

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14 Jun 11 - 09:10 AM (#3170410)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

LOL, GfinS...

Yer just mad because I have zeroed in on your party affliction, ahhhhh, affiliation: conservative republican and you don't like it... You like it less that I am a free thinker and have only voted for 2 democrats in my life for president: Jimmy Carter and Obama... That bugs you 'cause as much as you try you can't pin "democrat" on me...

The problem here really isn't about democrats... It's about people from the Tea Party whose ideologies are not only extremely radical but also not based on any proven & acceptable economic theory... We don't need people who don't understand how things work messing with things 'cause once they mess stuff up it will be very difficult to put Humpty Dumpty back together again...

Ever since the New Deal there has been this fringe right FDR haters... They evolved from the robber barons of the late 1800s and early 1900s... They were the ones who hired the "goons" who beat up my grand daddy when he and others tried to get a stone masons union organized back in the 20s... They are the ones now that are finacing the Tea Party... The Koch brothers have funneled hundreds of millions into hiring "community organizers" to go out and rile up the dumbest of the dumb... Dick Armey and FreedomWorks, who represent the health insurance companies have joined with the Koch brothers in throwing hundreds of more million$ into the effort...

If I had the money they have spent on organizing the mental midgets I would have a "progressive" movement so large that we wouldn't be having these discussions about policies that the Koch brothers want put in place that, frankly, are shallow-end-of-the-gene-pool ideas that harm the country rather than help it...

You may think that cutting taxes and allowing the upper 5% to continues oppression of the working class is going to help America... It won't, GfinS... It is what is tearing Amnerica up... How are people supposed to go out and spend if their incomes have flat-lined for the last 30 years??? That's what this is about... Ain't no dough left to spend on Boss Hog's junk...

That ain't radical thinking on my part... It's logical thinking based on facts on the ground and not what the DNC or anyone else wants me to think/observe...

Homie don't give a flying fig about the democrats other than most of them are trying to stop the irresponsible, anti-human, anti-Earth, anti-American policies that yer guys are pushing...

You certainly have earned the "insanity" portion of Gf"in"S...

B~

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14 Jun 11 - 09:36 AM (#3170420)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert has been asked several times to name these Dixiecrats that somehow explain how the bloodthirsty slave killing racist Democrats were actually the kindly saviors of the slaves.

He cannot name them.

Right now would be a good time for him to exhibit his superior knowledge of racial matters and name these Dixiecrats.

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14 Jun 11 - 09:47 AM (#3170423)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Joseph Stack played bass guitar in The Billy Eli Band
The 2010 Austin suicide attack occurred on February 18, 2010, when Andrew Joseph Stack III, flying his Piper Dakota, crashed into Building I of the Echelon office complex in Austin, Texas, United States, killing himself and Internal Revenue Service manager Vernon Hunter. Thirteen others were injured, two seriously. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) field office was located in a four-story office building along with other state and federal government agencies. Prior to the crash, Stack had posted a suicide note dated February 18, 2010 to his business website.
      Approximately an hour before the crash, Stack allegedly set fire to his $230,000 house located on Dapplegrey Lane in North Austin. He then drove to a hangar he rented at Georgetown Municipal Airport, approximately 20 miles to the north. He boarded his single-engine Piper Dakota airplane and was cleared to take off around 9:45 a.m. Central Standard Time. He indicated to the control tower his flight would be "going southbound, sir." After taking off his final words were "thanks for your help, have a great day."
      About ten minutes later his plane descended and collided at full speed into Echelon I, a building containing offices for 190 IRS employees, resulting in a large fireball and explosion. The building is located near the intersection of Research Boulevard (U.S. Route 183) and Mopac Expressway (Loop 1).
      The plane was piloted by Andrew Joseph Stack III of the Scofield Farms neighborhood in North Austin, who worked as an embedded software consultant. He grew up in Pennsylvania and had two brothers and two sisters, was orphaned at age four, and spent some time at a Catholic orphanage. He graduated from the Milton Hershey School in 1974 and studied engineering at Harrisburg Area Community College from 1975 to 1977 but did not graduate. His first marriage to Ginger Stack, which ended in divorce, produced a daughter, Samantha Bell. In 2007 Stack had remarried to Sheryl Housh who had a daughter from a previous marriage.
      In 1985, Stack, along with his first wife, incorporated Prowess Engineering. In 1994, he failed to file a state tax return. In 1998, the Stacks divorced and a year later his wife filed Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, citing IRS liabilities totaling nearly $126,000. In 1995, Stack started Software Systems Service Corp, which was suspended in 2004 for non-payment of state taxes. It was revealed in CNN and ABC news broadcasts by another software consultant who testified that the IRS had taken away a tax status for software consultants, which might have set off the incident with Stack.
      Stack obtained a pilot's license in 1994 and owned a Velocity Elite XL-RG plane, in addition to the Piper Dakota (aircraft registration N2889D) he flew into the Echelon building. He had been using the Georgetown Municipal Airport for four and a half years and paid $236.25 a month to rent a hangar. There has been speculation that Stack replaced seats on his aircraft with extra drums of fuel prior to the collision.
      Stack's accountant confirmed that he was being audited by the IRS for failure to report income at the time of the incident. On the morning of the crash, Stack posted a suicide note on his website, embeddedart.com. The HTML source code of the web page shows the letter was composed using Microsoft Word starting two days prior, February 16, at 19:24Z (1:24 p.m. CST). The document also shows that it was saved 27 times with the last being February 18 at 06:42Z (12:42 a.m. CST).
      In the suicide note, he begins by expressing displeasure with the government, the bailout of financial institutions, politicians, the conglomerate companies of General Motors, Enron and Arthur Andersen, unions, drug and health care insurance companies, and the Catholic Church. He then describes his life as an engineer; including his meeting with a poor widow who never got the pension benefits she was promised, the effect of the Section 1706 of Tax Reform Act of 1986 on independent contractor engineers, the September 11 attacks airline bailouts that only benefited the airlines but not the suffering engineers and how a CPA he hired seemed to side with the government to take extra tax money from him. His suicide note included criticism of the FAA, the George W. Bush administration, and a call for violent revolt.
      The suicide note also mentions, several times, Stack's having issues with taxes, debt, and the IRS and his having a long-running feud with the organization. While the IRS also has a larger regional office in Austin, the field office located in Echelon I performed tax audits, seizures, investigations and collections.
      The suicide note ended with: "         I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.
      The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.
      Killed in the incident along with Stack was Vernon Hunter, a 68-year-old Revenue Officer Group Manager for the IRS. Thirteen people were reported as injured, two of them critically. Debris from the crash reportedly struck a car being driven on the southbound access road of Route 183 in front of the building, shattering the windshield. Another driver on the southbound access road of Route 183 had his windows and sunroof shattered during the impact, and had debris fall inside his car, yet escaped uninjured. Robin Dehaven, a glass worker and former combat engineer for the United States Army, saw the collision while commuting to his job, and used the ladder on his truck to rescue five people from the building. By coincidence, the Travis County Hazardous Materials Team — an inter-agency group of firefighters from outside the City of Austin — had just assembled for training across the freeway from the targeted building, observed the low and fast flight of Stack's plane, and heard the blast impact. They immediately responded, attacking the fire and initiating search-and-rescue. Several City of Austin fire engines for the area of the Echelon building were already deployed at the fire at Stack's home at the time of the impact.
      The United States Department of Homeland Security issued a statement saying that the incident did not appear to be linked to organized international terrorist groups. The company hosting embeddedart.com, T35 hosting, took Stack's website offline "due to the sensitive nature of the events that transpired in Texas this morning and in compliance with a request from the FBI." Several groups put up fake Joe Stack Facebook pages following the incident and the news of the accompanying manifesto. These were immediately shut down by Facebook staff.
      The Federal Bureau of Investigation stated that it was investigating the incident "as a criminal matter of an assault on a federal officer" and that it was not being considered terrorism at this time. However, two members of the United States House of Representatives made statements to the contrary. Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) stated, "Like the larger-scale tragedy in Oklahoma City, this was a cowardly act of domestic terrorism." Mike McCaul (R-Texas), told a reporter that, "it sounds like it [was a terrorist attack] to me." Nihad Awad, the Executive Director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), is also asking the federal government to classify this as an act of terrorism. In a statement on February 19, he said, "Whenever an individual or group attacks civilians in order to make a political statement, that is an act of terror. Terrorism is terrorism, regardless of the faith, race or ethnicity of the perpetrator or the victims. If a Muslim had carried out the IRS attack, it would have surely been labeled an act of terrorism." Georgetown University Professor Bruce Hoffman stated that for this to be considered an act of terrorism, "there has to be some political motive and it has to send a broader message that seeks some policy change. From what I've heard, that doesn't appear to be the case. It appears he was very mad at the [IRS] and this was a cathartic outburst of violence. His motivation was the key." A USA Today headline used the term "a chilling echo of terrorism."
      Citing the copy of Joseph Stack's suicide note posted online, the liberal Daily Kos website observed that, "Obviously Stack was not a mentally healthy person, and he was embittered at capitalism, including crony capitalism, and health insurance companies and the government." They also stated that Stack could not be connected with the popular Tea Party movement, but argued that the incident "should inject a bit of caution into the anti-government flame-throwers on the right." The website Ace of Spades HQ disputed any connection to the movement and additionally stated Stack was not "right wing", citing Stack's criticism of politicians for not doing anything about health care reform.
      Five days after her husband Vernon Hunter's death, Valerie Hunter filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Sheryl Mann Stack, Andrew Joseph Stack's widow in District Court. The lawsuit alleges that Sheryl had a duty to "avoid a foreseeable risk of injury to others," including her late husband and failed to do so by not warning others about her late husband. The lawsuit also mentions that Stack was required by law to fly his plane at an altitude 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle. At a March 8, 2010 benefit event, Stack's widow Sheryl publicly offered condolences for the victims of the attack. Iowa congressman Steve King (R-Iowa) has made several statements regarding Stack including "I think if we'd abolished the IRS back when I first advocated it, he wouldn't have a target for his airplane. And I'm still for abolishing the IRS, I've been for it for thirty years and I'm for a national sales tax (in its place)."
      Noted libertarian socialist American intellectual Noam Chomsky cited Joe Stack's suicide letter as indicative of some of the public sentiment in the U.S., stated that several of Stack's assertions are accurate or based on real grievances, and urged people to "help" the Joseph Stacks of the world get involved in constructive popular movements instead of letting the Joseph Stacks "destroy themselves, and maybe the world," in order to prevent a process similar to how legitimate and valid popular grievances of the German people in the 1920s and 1930s were manipulated by the Nazis towards violence and away from constructive ends.
      The Internal Revenue Service formally designates certain individuals as potentially dangerous taxpayers (PDTs). In response to an inquiry after the attack, an IRS spokesperson declined to state whether Stack had been designated as a PDT.

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14 Jun 11 - 10:02 AM (#3170433)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Sawz,

There isn't any reason to respond to your moronic questions.... You certainly have the skills to Google up "Dixiecrats"... There's plenty of info on them...

There's also lots of information on the "Southern Strategy"...

You are nothing but an obsessive pest and, frankly, not worth my time with your childish and moronic questions...

Bye, part 385...

Bob

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14 Jun 11 - 11:57 AM (#3170492)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Again, Blowhard Bobert refuses to answer a straight up question but instead puts the burden of proof on others and can only back it up with ad hominem attacks.

Wikipedia names one Dixiecrat and says: By 1950, nearly all the Dixiecrats had returned to the Democratic Party.

States' Rights Democratic Party (Dixiecrats)
Founded         1948 (1948)
Dissolved         1948 (1948)
Preceded by         Democratic Party
Succeeded by         Democratic Party
Ideology         States' rights,
Social conservatism, Racial segregation


Here Bobert, read this and it will prove to you that your attempt to whitewash Democrats using the Dixiecrat myth is just that.

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14 Jun 11 - 01:13 PM (#3170528)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I don't know what the hell you've been smoking or ingesting, GfS, but it's softened your brain. You don't recognize satire when you read it?

You're missing out on a lot in life.

Don Firth

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14 Jun 11 - 02:26 PM (#3170571)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

That's IT!! You DON'T recognize satire!

Boy, that explains a lot!

Don Firth

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14 Jun 11 - 07:05 PM (#3170698)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

She missed more than a few school days, Don...

B~

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14 Jun 11 - 07:41 PM (#3170712)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Sure I do!!!.....I cracked up, after reading your latest post....


Don: "That's IT!! You DON'T recognize satire!
Boy, that explains a lot!"

Other than that, any, and every one playing partisan politics, and driving the 'issues' wedge, is just thinking too small...Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the financial/Geo-political/globalists are making your decisions for you, and you can't say 'shit', as long as you keep your heads in the 'issues' cat box!
Watch this: Romney is a carbon copy of 'Flip-Flop Barack', who is a carbon copy of 'Bush the Wonder Brain', which is a carbon copy of 'Cigar Sniffer Clinton', who, as just the same cut, as "Big CIA Papa Bush", whose Daddy, Forrest opened up the China/business relations..on down. Gosh, what do the y all have in common??....and it's NOT all about China, either.....unless, of course, you're still into, "Well it's common in the animal world"....or just a parade of unconnected, random acts of stupidity!1"
Don, I think, that you think too highly of your intellect, to not think this through. Come on,...some people are 'rootin' for you!!!
(Note to Ebbie: Thanks for the hot tip on 'rooting"!)

Still wishing You the Best, in Hopes the Music Side prevails, and shines light in and out of your inner being!!!!

GfS

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14 Jun 11 - 07:48 PM (#3170716)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh, here's a couple of cool music links. This one is the song before, but with Bowie singing it, with clips from the film:
Bowie and Metheny

and this one, check out his 'guitar'

.....Metheny and Jopek

Monkee fans probably aren't interested!

Enjoy!!

GfS

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14 Jun 11 - 08:01 PM (#3170717)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Man, I gotta find my headphones...

What GfinS lacks in real world understanding she more than makes up in finding good music...

Hmmmmmm???

What box are the headphones in????

B~

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14 Jun 11 - 09:44 PM (#3170751)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

GfS, light shines out of my inner being both from my music AND my intellect.

Do you have light shining out of your inner being? And where does it shine out from?

No, don't answer that! The world doesn't really want to know!

Don Firth

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14 Jun 11 - 11:37 PM (#3170775)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don Firth: "GfS, light shines out of my inner being both from my music AND my intellect.
Do you have light shining out of your inner being? And where does it shine out from?

No, don't answer that! The world doesn't really want to know!"

Now if you could manage to get 'self' out of they way, the light would have free travel through.....and you might not be so...umm...indecisive,
and recognize the light in others, and welcome truth when confronting it!....................(instead of calling attention to your 'intellect'!) Fair enough?

~*Sigh*~

Winkin' at Ya',

GfS

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15 Jun 11 - 12:31 AM (#3170803)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

GfS, other than my last post, YOU seem to be the one who keeps bringing up my intellect. I have no problem recognizing the light in others. When it's there. And their intellect. When there is some. Lots of really bright people here, in both senses.

What's your problem? Do you feel intimidated?

Don Firth

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15 Jun 11 - 12:35 AM (#3170804)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Still no answer from the highly educated expert on racisim.

All that is needed is a list, even a partial list of that "shitload of Dixiecrats" that turned into Republicans for Bobert's claim to have some credibility.

Also he tries to cook up and project a connection between a fellow guitar player, the Tea Party, the KKK and terrorisim with his broad brush.

The liberal Daily Kos website observed that, "Obviously Stack was not a mentally healthy person, and he was embittered at capitalism, including crony capitalism, and health insurance companies and the government." They also stated that Stack could not be connected with the popular Tea Party movement.

The FBI stated that it was investigating the incident "as a criminal matter of an assault on a federal officer" and that it was not being considered terrorism.

The United States Department of Homeland Security issued a statement saying that the incident did not appear to be linked to organized international terrorist groups.

Austin Tea Party director Greg Holloway said Stack was not a member of the Austin Tea Party. His name does not appear on any of their contact lists. He does not know of any tea party leader who ever met him.

National tea party leader Everett Wilkinson also poured cold water on any links to Tea Party groups. As far as I know, Joseph Andrew Stack was not a member of the tea party movement.

So what inside information does Bobert have that says Stack was a Tea Partyer? or a Terrorist? Or he had anything to do with the KKK?

Will he tell us or will he weasel out?

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15 Jun 11 - 01:26 AM (#3170815)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Here we go again.........You're the one who brought it up!


(...or his he being 'satirical'?.....can't tell.)

OK..I give up. What's the funny part?

Oh yeah..Tea Party.....terrorist organization.....

GfS

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15 Jun 11 - 01:43 AM (#3170818)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I never called the Tea Party a terrorist organization, GfS. I think the Tea Party is an aggregate of mixed nuts with the collective intelligence of a radish, but not a terrorist organization. Among other things, it's hard to think of it as an organization at all.

But anyone who takes a firearm to a rally or political meeting and brandishes it is thug and a hooligan, no matter how "patriotic" they think they are. Simple as that.

Don Firth

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15 Jun 11 - 02:43 AM (#3170827)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

How 'bout that?...800!

GfS

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15 Jun 11 - 10:08 AM (#3170949)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

You, Don, have insulted the entire radish kingdom!!!

For shame!!!

B~

p.s. Congrats, GfinS... I was kinda hopin' for that 800 myself... Oh well...

BTW, does anyone else hear a pesky gnat buzzin' 'round the kitchen or is it just my imagination??? lol...

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15 Jun 11 - 12:47 PM (#3171013)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

My humble apologies to radishes everywhere.

Don Firth

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15 Jun 11 - 02:30 PM (#3171046)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Still no answer from the highly educated expert on racisim.

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15 Jun 11 - 08:03 PM (#3171199)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I answered your moronish, childish question a long time ago...

You just didn't like the answer...

Tough!!!

Get a life, sawz...

B~

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15 Jun 11 - 11:41 PM (#3171267)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Now the middle break starts a little off, (in my opinion), but he pulls it off, as he goes......(once he gets going, I Love the instrumental playing, 'against the beat'!!!!!

Here, Bobert, get your headphones.

Grab a lick or two!.....(practice, practice, practice!)

GfS

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16 Jun 11 - 02:47 PM (#3171583)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I get in my hour a day no matter what else I'm doing... I really don't need any practice on the geetar but have been having problems remembering verses... To my own songs!!!

I found the headphones... Now I need a longer cord fir them 'cause the pudder ain't close enough fir me to see the screen and listen at the same time...

B~

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16 Jun 11 - 08:54 PM (#3171750)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Sounds like true dedication, to me!!...(clears throat). Hey, as long as you're at it,..and HATE Fox 'News'...check this out!.....Just HOW could they do this??!!??....but I could!!

Bobert might not like this...........(wink)

GfS

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16 Jun 11 - 09:13 PM (#3171759)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

...and then there's this one...not at 'Fox'

Sure you don't need to 'practice on your 'geetar'??'

GfS

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16 Jun 11 - 09:37 PM (#3171768)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Still no sound, GfinS....

As fir my geetar??? I can play anything that I want to... What more is there??? Might of fact, about 20 years ago my hands came to me and told me that they had declared independence... I know that my right hand was leaning toward it but I was hopin' to convine my left hand that it needed to stay in the fold, so to speak... But, no, they both told me to **** off... Since then I have tried to make suggestions here and there and I get they same from them... *** off, Boberdz!!!

I think that is terribly rude... I mean, hey, who's the boss here, anyway???

I donno about my pudder and sound... I plugged my headphones in and nuthin'... I need some time to mess with the wires... 'er rap the pudder with a small hammer... I donno...

Hate to be missin' all this music...

B~

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16 Jun 11 - 10:21 PM (#3171780)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

No sound??..No practice??...No great influences in your music from me???...NO WONDER YOU'VE FALLEN INTO THE ABYSS OF STUPID POLITICS!!!

GET YOUR FUCKING COMPUTER TO WORK!!!...JEEZ.....AND WHEN YOU DO, GO BACK TO THOSE LINKS....I thought you were able to hear them....I mean, how did you know it was good music, if you couldn't hear it???

GfS

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16 Jun 11 - 10:51 PM (#3171785)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I ain't got the time for no pudder right now... I livin' in a house with about 200 unpacked boxes and a wife wanting 500 plants planted yesterday... I livin' with a 1953 Spartanette trailer (my music studio) out back screaming to get blocked up and rewired and back up... I livin' with a pond about to go dry in 10 days if we don't get about 5 inches of rain (ain't gonna happen)... I livin' with the largest family reunion in history comin' at me 4th o' July...

But, I just took a few minutes off and wiggled my boney butt into the little area that I presently have carved out as my geetar space and asked myself, "What do I want to play (here) that I ain't never played before?"... Came up with an old Leo Kottke lick called something like "Machine #356" and hit it purdy good... Feel like Lightnin' Slim's "Nothin' But the Devil" before turnin' in and maybe Blind Lemon Jefferson's "One Kind Favor"...

BTW, for the record???

Having been born in the South, raised in the South, educated in the South and lived most of my life here in the South, the Tea Party is filled with ex-Klaners... You can take that to the bank!!!

B~

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17 Jun 11 - 12:59 AM (#3171799)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well, there ain't no KKK'rs up here....but some folks are likin' the Tea Party. Me?..As I've said before, "I'm not with the 'party'..I'm with the band!"
...as far as 'takin' it to the bank'..last I heard, it was a sperm bank, and someone was tryin' to leave an unauthorized deposit!!...one of the tellers wouldn't allow his withdrawal......then found out, he really didn't have any real interest!!...that just compounded. What's worse, is the hired two homosexuals with hemorrhoids. Some of the customers were complaining about the speed bumps!!...I didn't know what the hell they were bitching about. The drive up teller told me all about it....then handed me a cheeseburger and fries!
...but all I ordered was a taco.
Never been back, since!

Go to a friend's house, if you have any yet, and click on the licks. Jeez, those are good ones....and got more, too.
I don't step in shit, play with shit, eat shit, or stuff it in my nose...OR EARS!!!..so I'm picky about what I listen to!!!...HOWEVER>>>
I sure read a lot of it, on here!! (Good thing this ain't in Braille!)

Now Get Busy!!!!

GfS

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17 Jun 11 - 08:30 AM (#3171882)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

There are KKKers everywhere, GfinS...

The Tea Party??? Remember Glen Becks rally in DC??? Well, the had a picture of the crowd in the Washington Post and of the 300 of so folks in the pucture there was not one black face...

Hmmmmmmm???

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck!!!

Now, as fir my pudder and music, maybe tonight...

We have grand youngin' here today and I gotta play entertainment/social director for the youngin'... If it was up to me I've get the kid a stick with a nail in it and tell him to "go play" but the P-Vine says these kids don't play with sticks no more??? I don't get it...

B~

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17 Jun 11 - 09:01 AM (#3171889)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Yeah?...and my mother is coming in, late this afternoon. Son is picking her up from the airport. True story!
....As for the KKK'ers, really, there are none that I know of here. Maybe all over the south. But none here...I'm, quite a way west of you...but then you know the south....Sorta 'Political Neanderthals'!....Oh,..ahem, (Clears throat)......I ALMOST forgot....Play yo' hah-monicah, boy!! ..Do it with that geetah, in yo' hands!....Play it real sweet, and low.....make them sheet-sters think about sweet times.......make em fo-get about ironing them sheet dunce hats!!....

GfS

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17 Jun 11 - 09:25 AM (#3171900)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I didn't know they ironed them, GfinS... You holding out???

Don't much matter if it's KKK or whatever... The Tea Party ain't for no black folks... Maybe that's part of its appeal to angry white people???

B~

p.s. Say "Hey" to mom, fir me...

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17 Jun 11 - 11:29 AM (#3171954)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert has not answered my question ever. His last resort is to claim he did.

What was the answer I didn't like Bobert? You holding out??? You refuse to answer a straight up question?

Bobert can't name or enumerate any of the Dixiecrats even though he claims to be an educated expert on the subject.

Professer Bobert:

Students, we are gathered here today to learn about the shitload of Dixiecrats I told you about when I said "There were a shitload of them" So Google it yourself and prove I am right like always (no brag just fact). I don't have the time.

But perfesser, I see in the Google results you told us to read that it was a myth. That the Dixiecrats dissolved back into the Democratic party.

I have now spoken and answered all of your childish and moronic questions.

But when I Google "Southern Strategy" I am told it was a myth.

Also it says Pat Bucannan invented the term and it referred to Nixon's declaration that "we would build our Republican Party on a foundation of states rights, human rights, small government and a strong national defense, and leave it to the "party of Maddox, Mahoney and Wallace to squeeze the last ounces of political juice out of the rotting fruit of racial injustice." And because of that he got 25% of the black vote in the south.

Can you please explain why that is that perfesser?

And what did LBJ mean when he said "we will have those n*****s voting Democratic for the next 200 years"? Was that a strategy to win the south?

C'mon Perfesser, you are letting us down after claiming you know all this stuff.

---

17 Jun 11 - 12:33 PM (#3171977)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Check out a lot of the ones around this one!!!

GfS

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17 Jun 11 - 01:41 PM (#3171999)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

HMMMMMMMMMM this stuff I Googled up don't exactly jive with what the perfesser says about the racist Tea Party but he ain't that good at splanin things so I won't ask him why or he might get all mad and start callin me names:

    A black TEA party group started in Houston. It's called the Crispus Attucks Tea Party. (I'll leave it to you to find out about Crispus Attucks, if you don't already know the name.) Does this mean that the regular TEA party really is racist? Of course not. Nor is this new group. It's actually a neighborhood TEA party group for the 3rd ward in Houston, which is mostly a black neighborhood. We have neighborhood TEA party groups all over the country. I'm thrilled to learn that one has started in Houston's 3rd ward. (And, by the way, the supposed racists of the other TEA party groups in the area....you know the "all white old guy TEA party members" that everyone talks about were welcome at this initial meeting and many showed up. It's said that attendance was about half white and half black.) I'm also thrilled to know that this will be a model of TEA parties for black neighborhoods all over the U.S.
    The 3rd district is Represented by Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, and was the focal point of rampant ACORN-style vote fraud and widespread voter intimidation this past November. It is thus fitting that this tea party had its inaugural meeting right down the street from Lee’s residence.
    With the typical politesse and considerate attitude of conservatives always left unreported by the press Rep. Lee was extended an invitation to the event. And with typical leftist rudeness, Lee snubbed it. Wonder why? These are her constituents, after all. I posted about Congresswoman Lee the other day. (You have to see this. Lee claims that repealing ObamaCare would violate the 5th and 14th amendments.)It's no wonder that the first black TEA party started in her district. Here's part of the press release provided by the Crispus Attucks TEA Party.
    Black Conservatives Form The Crispus Attucks Tea Party in Houston Texas. Our primary objective is to break the cycles of dependency and decay that continue to anesthetize and hold captive too many Black families and neighborhoods. We provide continuing series of speakers, seminars, training and practical business support services designed to help Blacks fully assimilate into and be competitive in American society. Our objective is to teach all Americans the fullness of the history of Blacks in America and to help Blacks gain control of their lives and the destiny of their children. Only by understanding our full and true history will we all of America be liberated.
    Lessons learned from decades of intrusive Social Engineering, Social Justice Policies and the Welfare State are left out of text books and routinely ignored by those profiting from them, however, they cannot be denied. One need only take a walk through what is left of our Black communities. Houston’s Sugar Hillbecame 3rd Ward which was a thriving Black enterprise zone without any government programs or subsidies. Enter stage left, The Great Societywhich offeredAn FDR Chicken In Every Pot and An LBJ Check In Every Mail Box. Now Houston’s 3rd Ward looks like a war zone and Black families are almost extinct. Spawned in the ’60′s, these social engineering experiments, government programs and the arrogant utopian value systems which produced them, continue to produce urban decay, increasing cyclical welfare dependency, increasing tax burdens (for those who pay taxes), the demise of the Black family, fatherless homes, skyrocketing out of wedlock births, more abortions than births, a rise in Black militancy and separatist activity and theft of real political power from all of those living in Black neighborhoods.
    Neither political party has been intellectually honest with itself or Blacks. The Crispus Attucks Tea Party unleashes the anesthetized political giant rendered helpless by an unending stream of government programs funded by tax dollars. Programs, welfare checks and the demise of pride and the work ethic have robbed Blacks of their identities and their dignity. They have devastated Black neighborhoods and rendered them politically and economically impotent. The Crispus Attucks Tea Party will shift political power away from race bating politicians, games of Three Card Monty played by highly skilled political operators and race hustlers who base all political activities and campaigns on race. Operating within Black districts these charlatans have proven incapable of acting in the best interest of those they claim to represent.
    The Crispus Attucks Tea Party is part of America’s rapidly growing Tea Party movement. Starting with Houston’s 3rd Ward, it will focus all of the power amassed across America by the Tea Party movement directly into targeted Black neighborhoods across America. Yes !! .. Our army operates .. Inside The Belly Of The Beast . The Crispus Attucks Tea Party is a non-partisan, neighborhood movement. It provides a base of operations for the descendants of Black Slavery who realize that welfare checks and government dependency are key elements of their destruction. The corresponding destructive cycles have destroyed lives, families and their neighborhoods. Government dependency holds Blacks hostage. It precludes true liberty and forever blocks full assimilation. Our mission includes building series of strong neighborhood operating bases made of business people, elected officials, Constituents and Voters, living and working in hostile areas . Intellectually honest Constituents living in Black neighborhoods want them to be safe and to thrive while becoming less dependent on the tax dollars of others. These Constituents want disciplined classrooms and globally competitive educations for their children. They want full control of the schools, stores, businesses within their neighborhoods and real futures for their children. These things will come only when Constituents living in these neighborhoods feel that they are worthy of them. The Crispus Attucks Tea Party will help Blacks take those steps forward. The Tea Party moves .. Into The Belly Of The Beast .
    The Crispus Attucks Tea Party promotes and fights for the founding principles originally defined by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Our core principles include personal responsibility, education, a constrained and transparent government, a balanced budget, self sufficiency, full assimilation and the development of viable Black businesses. that create jobs. We identify & vet viable Conservative candidates that are willing to fight for our mission, our principles and the issues we embrace. Candidates and elected officials who are commitment to American, want to maximize the value American Citizenship, share our values and demonstrate full support of our issue oriented efforts are welcome to support them. For more information on our inaugural meeting or the Crispus Attucks Tea Party

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17 Jun 11 - 02:51 PM (#3172013)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

The Tea Party claims to want to follow the Constitution. The document doesn't mention gay people or marriage, but it does place a lot of importance on equal rights and equal treatment under the law. Here are a few items from a quick internet search about whether the movement is, at least in part, bigoted and/or just doesn't understand how our government (as spelled out by our Constitution) works. There's LOTS more where these came from. If they don't want to be called racist, bigoted, or ignorant, they should stop acting like it, and start slapping down their members who do.

From a new survey by the University of Washington: "The data suggests that people who are Tea Party supporters have a higher probability"—25 percent, to be exact—"of being racially resentful than those who are not Tea Party supporters," says Christopher Parker, who directed the study. "The Tea Party is not just about politics and size of government. The data suggests it may also be about race."

From a New York Time/CBS poll:
"According to the New York Times and CBS, only about 16 percent of Tea Party activists support same-sex marriage. Most (52 percent) think that the problems of people of color get too much attention. Most (59 percent) think that Glenn Beck is a pretty righteous dude."

From Montana Tea Party leader Tim Ravndal's facebook page:
"Marriage is between a man and a woman period! By giving rights to those otherwise would be a violation of the constitution and my rights."
From one of his friends: "I think fruits are decorative. Hang up where they can be seen and appreciated. Call Wyoming for display instructions." Wyoming, you'll remember, was the scene where in 1998, Matthew Shepard was brutally beaten and hung up in a field. Shepard died several days after he was found. Ravndal's responce: "Where can I get that Wyoming printed instruction manual?"

Freshman Tea Party GOP Congresswoman Vicky Hartzler (R-MI)compared same-sex marriage to polygamy, incest, marrying children, and even to a three-year old driving a car.

Michelle Bachman:
Both she and her husband, by all accounts her most trusted political adviser, believe that homosexuality can be cured. Speaking to a Christian radio station about gay teenagers last year, Marcus, who treats gay people in his counseling practice, said, "Barbarians need to be educated. They need to be disciplined, and just because someone feels this or thinks this, doesn't mean that we're supposed to go down that road."

In 2004, Bachmann gave a speech warning that gay marriage would lead to schoolchildren being indoctrinated into homosexuality. She wanted everyone to know, though, that she doesn't hate gay people. "Any of you who have members of your family in the lifestyle, we have a member of our family that is," she said. "This is not funny. It's a very sad life. It's part of Satan, I think, to say that this is gay."

An Ohio Tea Party listing of what has to be in place for a Republican to get their support:
1. The Right to Life is a Constitutional right, therefore innocent human beings should have legal protection from conception until natural death.
2. The regulation of Carbon Dioxide in our atmosphere should be left to God and not government and I oppose all measures of Cap and Trade as well as the teaching of global warming theory in our schools.
3. Marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman, any other type of Union is not marriage.
4. Children should not be placed into foster homes where the parents are homosexual, bisexual, or transgender.
5. Parental consent should be required for sex education that teaches more than direct abstinence.
10. I oppose the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy of the military and believe that all same sex partners should be banned from combat duty in the military because of the propensity to transmit blood-borne diseases in the theatre of battle.
11. I support a law that will allow the people to place on a ballot all collective bargaining agreements of all government associations, unions, and guilds, for their expressed approval. Defeat of such an agreement would mean government workers would not be immune from the free market system.

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17 Jun 11 - 03:22 PM (#3172021)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

"The Tea Party claims to want to follow the Constitution. The document doesn't mention gay people or marriage..."

An attempt by the poster to divert discussion of fiscal and governmental issues to social issues.

We have a government ehat spends $1.00 for each 57¢ it takes in. Enough is enough. Balance the spending with federal income, or at least make an attempt.

Churches are involved in social issues. Take the subject of with your priest or Rabbi.

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17 Jun 11 - 04:42 PM (#3172044)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Sorry PDQ, as long as the Tea Party (and the rest of Republicans) try to force their social ideas down the throats of the rest of us, the subject is fair game. Yes, churches are involved with social issues, but so is the Tea Party. If you don't like it, take it up with them. This thread isn't about our economic system (I agree that our economy is screwed), it's about the Tea Party and whether or not they are a terrorist organization. In general, I think the "terrorist" label should be saved for more extreme activities, but trying to force me to live according to their religious principles is a form of terrorism, and is wildly unconstitutional as well. Showing up at political rallies with guns is a form of terrorism. Hurling racial and sexual epithets at Congresspeople is a form of terrorism. Many of us remember the 60s, when racial epithets and guns combined to make a lot of dead black people and civil rights workers.

The Tea Party claims to want to follow the Constitution, but all the evidence suggests they don't have a clue what it actually says. They claim to want "freedom", but they seem to be OK with decreasing or withholding freedom from anyone who isn't them.

Even on the economic front, their solutions are so childishly naive that it's frightening that they managed to get so many of their partisans into Congress. Yelling "STOP" isn't really a valid economic policy, nor is doing away with our ability to regulate the fatcats that caused the economic problems in the first place. I firmly believe that we should have a balanced budget, but trying to get there without adding new revenue just isn't going to work. When I pay more than 25% of my wages in taxes while billionaires and hugely profitable corporations pay nothing it means that there are huge sources of income that we're not using. Besides being terribly unfair.

Maybe the question shouldn't be whether or not they are a terrorist organization, but if they are a clueless organization.

Oh, and what kind of strangeness causes you to refer to me as "the poster" instead of using my name like everyone else does? Rather odd . . .

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17 Jun 11 - 04:47 PM (#3172047)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

I also told a Sharon Angle supporter to tell her heroine to "shut up" about abortion and other social issues. If she couldn't do that, she should get lost.

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17 Jun 11 - 05:00 PM (#3172052)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Very well reasoned post, John P...

And pdq and I actually agree on Sharon Angle... She just didn't ever figure out that somethings that come into one's head should just stay the heck there and not in the public domain...

B~

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17 Jun 11 - 05:16 PM (#3172059)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Balance the spending with federal income, or at least make an attempt.

No problem, PeeDee - all it would take is restoration of taxes on the wealthiest Americans to the 50% rate they paid during the Eisenhower administration, instead of the 18% they pay now, thanks to failed VooDoo Economics docterine.

The TeaPublicans could do that tomorrow.

Get after 'em, why don't you?

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17 Jun 11 - 07:00 PM (#3172093)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh, BTW the poll is stupid! Notice they didn't ask Democrats or Republicans what they thought of people OUTSIDE THEIR party.
just an attempt to bring nonsense issues, to cloud the matter!

OH!!! and another thing, Yes, this sex thing may be bigger than you think!
The Anthony Wiener issue, has divided parts of the Obama Administration, as well. Some of his closest cabinet members, are thinking of challenging him in the primaries!! The Attorney General sides with the N.Y. congressman, and has the 'goods' on a lot of 'inside Obama stuff'. He has threatened to resign, and form an alliance with Wiener, to run!....It will be the Wiener-Holder ticket!!!!

GfS

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17 Jun 11 - 07:50 PM (#3172106)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

hee hee hee. Wiener-Holder ticket. I love it!

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17 Jun 11 - 07:53 PM (#3172108)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

GfinS...

I got the puuder workin' but still don't have a long enough cord... Loved the Michale Grimm song "Fallin'"... Real soulful... I got a few songs like that in my song collection but most of the gigs I do folks don't want to hear anything that doesn't get their pant legs a'shakin'...

Saws...

I hate to tell you this but you computer has tailored itself to the kinds of websites that cater only to the right wing and is blocking you from the others... Computers do this... They learn you and then give you only what you want...

Go to a library and use their computers that will not have built in prejudices and biases... Google up "Dixiecrats" and "Southern Strategy" and you'll get a wealth of information about stuff that I assume you are clueless about... Then maybe after you learn the true American History then you'll understand how the parties did the switch in the 60s...

But then again, maybe you like being ignorant??? Hey, that's your business... Not mine...

B~

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18 Jun 11 - 02:06 AM (#3172192)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

As far as I know, its original and has first appeared in 'Mudcat', by 'Yours Truly'. Cut and paste it, and E-mail it!!

Finally, a post of mine that 'John P' likes......I won't wonder 'why'!

Have fun with it!

Regards with a Wink!

GfS

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18 Jun 11 - 09:45 AM (#3172320)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"They learn you and then give you only what you want"

Like yours? If so, where is your info on the shitload of Dixiecrats?

You spend so much time dreaming up these deceptions to avoid answering a question and then you claim you don't have the time to answer the question.

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18 Jun 11 - 12:54 PM (#3172384)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

'Tis a common tactic to avoid answering questions, that tend to scratch the surface, of a mountain of disinformation, and exaggerations, commonly know in the real world, as lies!

in another thread, about 'lying bastards', look at all the stuff that came in, about the lies this administration has dumped on the public, only to be embraced by those who support their particular lying bastard!!...The same goes for when the 'other' lying bastard party is in 'power'(?)..(as if either party has their own power).

When someone outside the loop, makes advances, whether it be Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, Sarah Palin lies and bad mouthing spring up like gushers! Pretty soon, everyone is tired of hearing about them, and the glittering shimmer wears away, and they're yesterday's news. I guess the next in line will be Michelle Bachman. (The left tend to despise women who rise up, and who are successful, even if it from an opposing view!)
BTW, when I checked on Dennis Kucinich, this is what popped up....(don't let is piss you off too much!).

Just found this....

GfS

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18 Jun 11 - 03:24 PM (#3172461)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh, Here's the full story.....I'm sure it gets fuller, just follow the links!

Humm dee dum dum....

Responses?????

GfS

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18 Jun 11 - 04:19 PM (#3172508)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

"...he {Obama}violated the War Powers Act, which requires him to come to Congress within 60 days for approval once initiating hostilities and we also say in the suit that even though the president had the approval of NATO and had the approval of the UN Security Counsel, those two institutions to do not trump the United States Constitution in the fact that the president has to come back and get approval." ~ Kucinich

George Bush and George W. Bush went before Congress at least four times to get our military actions approved. Both gave truthful information and followed the law.

Lyndon Johnson went to Congress with a completely bogus incident in the Gulf of Tonkin to have his pissing contest with Uncle Ho approved.

Slick Willie tried to bomb Serbia back to the Stone Age without Congressional approval. In fact, Clinton ordered the bombing of seven nations, all done with questionable legal standing.

There seems to be a pattern here when it comes to Democrats and Republican following the law. Carter, I believe, avoided the problem by having no discernable foreign military policy.

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18 Jun 11 - 04:53 PM (#3172529)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I'm not currently taking part in this thread.

It's pretty getting deep and--um--aromatic--around here, and my hip-waders are out being repaired.

CLICKY

Don Firth

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18 Jun 11 - 08:20 PM (#3172626)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Me neither, Don... Arguing with right wing bloggers who are paid to write garbage and then post it on the internet as being factual is a complete waste of time... I split my time more wisely than to engage in arguing with paid morons whose only job is to frame issues to make their crooks look good and the good guys look like the real crooks...

The entire right wing is way deep in so much bullshit and mythology now that they can't come up with lies fast enough to out do each other...

My hip-waders are also out being repaired...

B~

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18 Jun 11 - 08:21 PM (#3172628)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well that's a convenient way to duck out!

I do not, however, think that the Republicans are without fault, when it comes to this....They both rapidly respond to the phone call from the international bankers, and mega-corps.

I think the more the Obama administration and so called 'liberals'(not to be confused with real liberals), fuck up, the less we'll be hearing from their naively fooled supporters. The 'fuck ups' are all to obvious!....and harder to be spun to even 'look'right!

"Something is happening here,
What it is ain't exactly clear...."

Then remove your head from that hot, wet comfy zone of 'rest'!!!

.....besides, it stinks there....but some just got too comfortable there....

GfS

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18 Jun 11 - 10:30 PM (#3172658)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

No duck-outs and no endo-anal cranial insertion (at least on the part of Bobert and me), but we've come to the conclusion that it's a total waste of time and energy to try to have a rational discussion with a couple of people who consider no viewpoint but their own (or what they're parroting from Right-Wing blogs), and spout-off non-stop with their eyes shut and their fingers in their ears.

Don Firth

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18 Jun 11 - 10:54 PM (#3172673)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

And it's far more productive and effective to talk to real people in the 3D world, write letters to one's political representatives and the editors of various publications, and talk with people face-to-face.

The internet is a great tool for politicking, but there's one thing about talking with people face-to-face. And that is that they have to stick to the subject, and they rarely respond to what you're saying with personal insults. Because there is always the chance that they might be served a knuckle sandwich for talking to someone the way certain people here on these threads do constantly when they don't have a sane answer to someone else's valid point.

There are a couple of other grass roots organizations besides the "Tea Party" who don't make as much noise, but their influence will be felt very strongly, very soon. Organized as a reaction to the excesses of the "Tea Party," but, I might add, they could hardly be called "reactionary." Intelligent and well-informed, meeting through the internet, and getting together when possible in each other's living rooms.

Stay tuned.

Don Firth

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19 Jun 11 - 12:29 AM (#3172690)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well, that's a bunch of home-made shit!
First of all, the ONLY forum or blog I EVER go to is this one!..So you found yourself a tag-a-long.
Meanwhile, I was going to ask one of you astute warmongers, to justify how we come to attack Libya, without going to Congress, whether we have a NATO, or any other alliance!! This is bullshit, and you bloody well know it! You are both just playing 'follow the leader'..no matter how illegal, unethical, un-Constitutional, and matter of fact, treasonous!!

Is Dennis Kucinich wrong??..in calling a spade a spade?..Is he 'too far right' or 'too far left' to your liking???..Do we now follow the 'man' instead of the laws and ideals, this country is supposed to be about???? Are you craving a dictator, to tell you what we are going to do??..instead of following the laws and protocols, already established, as to our behavior, in this world???

I think you don't have any rational, legal basis to stand on, other than you like the guy you were led to believe was really a 'liberal'..and being as you identify with that, you are too locked, as in 'brain-locked' to admit that you've been deceived!!
Hey, its not too late...I kept saying through-out quite a few posts, and threads, "Snap now and avoid the rush!"...You guys are the moral equivalent, of the Nixon hanger-onners, true believers, who still supported him, and wanted him to stay, even as he was waving 'Fare well' from the helicopter, AFTER he resigned!!..probably crying in your beer about Anthony Wiener, as well!!......just because he is of you party...no matter how fucked up, he is!

You probably still think Oblab-Face thinks more of the poor under-trodden, than his corporate/financial 'sponsors'...just because he, and the momentum of the media, conned you suckers into thinking he was something that he is not...in the least!

So, is it any wonder, that a 'Tea Party' sprang up???....even if they might be off a little, here and there??....What did you expect?? I'm willing to bet doughnuts to dollars, that there are a lot of sincere people out there, who belong to the Tea Party, who are NOT gun toting KKK'rs, not racist, not Republicans, who just are frustrated with the bullshit 'Change we can believe in' crap, that is worse than Bush. Actually, in my thinking, the was, is and never intended to be ANY difference....other than appealing to 'liberals' who were fooled long enough, just to shut them up!

Well, cowboys, got news for you...YOU AIN'T 'LIBERALS'..hell, you don't even believe in a Democratic government! ...nor our Republic!..or you would have called it the way it was!

Shit, I don't even know if you play anything musically, except the radio!

Oh well, I think what is self evident, is self evident...and there is a faction of loons out there who will believe any corrupt notion, that wraps itself in a package of 'OUR SIDE'!!!

I really hope Kucinich has half the integrity, as he portrays himself to have.....I don't know, though..he did oppose Obama care, up to the end.........................................almost!!

GfS

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19 Jun 11 - 12:43 AM (#3172695)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh, and Pee Ess...I'm NOT a right winger, either!...I think you are more for 'corporatism' than 'socialism' as well!!

Personally, I think ALL the 'isms' can take a flying leap!

GfS

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19 Jun 11 - 12:56 AM (#3172703)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

My Gawd, you're clueless!!

Don Firth

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19 Jun 11 - 01:07 AM (#3172706)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

In fact, you couldn't get a clue if it was the middle of clue mating season, you rubbed your body with clue musk, then dashed out into the middle of a field full of horny clues and did the clue mating dance!

Don Firth

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19 Jun 11 - 08:25 AM (#3172816)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don: "My Gawd, you're clueless!!"
Don: "In fact, you couldn't get a clue if it was the middle of clue mating season, you rubbed your body with clue musk, then dashed out into the middle of a field full of horny clues and did the clue mating dance!"


I guess if that's all you got, or, if that's all you have for a rebuttal, you ain't got too much, do you??? Instead, you say something semi-quasi inflammatory, that DOES NOT address the issue, just more namby-pamby name calling.

Oh, and I'M clueless????? I didn't vote for the fuck-nut!!!!

'Cluelessly' not as fooled, as you,

GfS

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19 Jun 11 - 09:47 AM (#3172837)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Hdere's the deal, GfinS...

You know that I'll wrestle around with you when time permits because I am wrestling around with *YOU*... Wrestling around with cut and paste right winged paid bloggers is a complete waste of my precious time and I'm sure that Don feels the same way...

As for Kucinich??? I agreed with him on Iraq and Afghanistan... I'm not totally sold on the NATO participation but more because the US has had to carry the load with NATO for years... Gadaffi, however, should not be attacking civilian areas indiscriminately... That's called genocide...

B~

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19 Jun 11 - 11:19 AM (#3172862)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

..and we have laws regarding when and how we go to war!..not that that means any difference to you, and the Obama devotees! ..and I don't know where you get this 'right wing blog' shit.
Is Kucinich too 'right wing' for ya'?
Was Reagan right to bomb Libya, but Obama is OK to do the same???
Did Libya attack us??...as it did while Reagan was in office?
Do you support the U.S. being the 'policeman' for the rest of the world?
Is it our 'normal' policy to interfere with other nation's civil wars?..or are we instigating them?
Did you support Johnson's Vietnam policies, as well???
Did you support Bush's war on Iraq?
Afghanistan?
Pakistan?
Somalia?
..or do you only LIKE so-called 'liberal' started wars?
It sounds more like to me, that we are just supporting ANY, and ALL mid-east unrest!
Did we bomb Northern Ireland?..or make big moves to fuck with the IRA?
...or the Basques?
Kenya?..Uganda?
This unilateral warmongering is now justified because you THINK Obama is a liberal!!!!!??
Is Kucinich wrong??
Do you think, with Kucinich breaking ranks with Obama, that this is 'unifying' the Democratic party??

Personally, I think either party is OK..AS LONG as they uphold the Democratic process, as laid down in the Constitution, and stop with the corruption, that makes the 'policies'!...and this ass-brain has done everything in his power to circumnavigate AWAY from our supreme law of our nation!!..Including how the so-called 'Health Care' bill was passed...and then in the name of 'equality', hands out waivers to his cronies!! You think that's just ducky, huh???

Now, I expect none of these questions to be answered, from you two, but rather blither-blather, and some half witted, asinine name calling and accusations!
The reason is YOU DO NOT HAVE A MORAL OR LEGAL LEG TO STAND ON!!
Frankly, when it comes to hypocrisy, the far left lunatics, who have captured your thinking, are more akin to mentally ill, two faced, double standard morons!!!
But, be glad..at least you have company!!

GfS

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19 Jun 11 - 11:22 AM (#3172865)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

....and ah da' peepo sed, "Ah-men"!!

GfS

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19 Jun 11 - 12:03 PM (#3172886)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh, and while we're at it......How come we ignored the calls from the Iranian people, when they begged us for their help??

How about the Egyptians??

..and remember Tienanmen Square?

Where were the phony 'liberals' there?
Did you ANY support ANY of this??..Or just filling your shoes with the crap running down your legs?

Bullshitters!

GfS

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19 Jun 11 - 12:17 PM (#3172896)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert has displayed his entire knowledge of who the "shitload" Dixiecrats were that turned into Republicans or how many there were.

Exactly how many are in a shitload and how would he know if there were enough Dixiecrats to make a shitload?

Ziltch.

In an effort to hide his lack of knowledge he resorts to ad hominem attacks calling the people that ask him "ignorant" and spends hours claiming he is too busy.

All of which leads me to believe that Bobert is a Blowhard.

He could prove he is not a Blowhard by producing some facts to support his claims about the shitload of Dixiecrats but I think he would rather keep avoiding facts and proving he is a Blowhard.

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19 Jun 11 - 12:44 PM (#3172908)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Here's the deal, GfinS...

The invasion of Iraq was 100% bogus...

Yes, the UN and Congress did pass resolutions that specified that Baush would have to use an invasion of last resort... That never happened...

Hanz Blix went before the UN in late January, 2002 and reported that the Iraqi's were not only cooperating with the UN inspectors but had allowed the inspectors to inspect where ever they wanted... Hey, that is exactly what both the UN and Congress were looking for with their resolutions...

2 weeks later Bush ordered up the invasion!!!

That violated the "spirit" of the resolutions and therefore the entire war was in violation of the spirit of both the UN and Congress's wishes...

That's the way it went down and I can furnish you with the exact date of the report and the exact language of Blix's report, if you like...

This isn't a matter of debate... It's a matter of common sense...

Like I said, I am not 100% with or against Kucinich and Co... What I am against are people who voted for the Congressional resolution on Iraq who never peeped up when they knew perfectly well that Bush hadn't lived up to what Congress wanted or authorized...

That is 100% USDA Choice "Hypocrisy"...

I am sick of the hypocrisy of 100% of the Republicans... And, yes, some of the Dems, as well...

Yo, Sawz...

Sorry, pal, but I'm not reading your posts any more... You have lost all credibility and you are a patent liar, too... So your stuff gets scrolled by as in ot even looked at.. You should have played straighter in the beginning without all this obsessive garbage... You have completely marginalized yourself in my book...

B~

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19 Jun 11 - 02:19 PM (#3172958)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "
Here's the deal, GfinS...
The invasion of Iraq was 100% bogus..."

Okay, I agree with you on that one!...So what makes it OK to invade the rest???

gfS

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19 Jun 11 - 02:37 PM (#3172971)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

What Bobert said. He's got a good grip on this situation.

I was very much in favor of Dennis Kucinich early on (a couple of presidential elections ago). But he's gotten a bit hysterical lately, and he'd be a disaster if he were elected.

I'm not happy with Obama. Great hopes early on, but he's disappointed a lot of people for reasons I've posted earlier. Not strong enough, too conciliatory with people who have no intention of compromising on anything.

People like GfS will, of course, vote for Kucinich, even go so far as to write him in if he doesn't make the ballot, rather than vote for Obama, split the vote, and throw the election to one of the Republican bozos who are slavering after the job.

THEN, we'll ALL have something—a lot of things—to howl about!

####

I, too, am not bothering to read Sawzaw's posts. Cut and paste from his favorite Right Wing blogs, and then lards them over with personal insults.

And as for GfS:   Why should I waste my time trying to have a rational discussion with someone who insults my intelligence and denigrates my character rather than even considering what I'm saying? That's the mark of someone who is not open to reasonable argument; rather than making a sensible point, they are far more interested in trying to show how smart they are by putting the other person down.

If you want a graphic illustration of this sort of conduct, read Sawzaw's last post ot Bobert. And—look at the next post that GfS directs at me.

Don Firth

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19 Jun 11 - 03:54 PM (#3173004)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I didn't vote for Dennis Kucinich..and I doubt that I would...but if it came to just voting a Democratic ticket, I might be tempted to.

Don: "I'm not happy with Obama. Great hopes early on, but he's disappointed a lot of people for reasons I've posted earlier. Not strong enough, too conciliatory with people who have no intention of compromising on anything."

Well, during the elections I went 'round and 'round with Amos, that Obama was not even 'qualified' to be President...So I'm somewhat glad that you came around, even if it was a bit late! are you going to 'fault' me for being ahead of the curve, on that one, too?

Now, to get back to the topic of the thread..The Tea Party is NOT a 'terrorist' organization, nor should they be made out to be likened to one. That's the shit that divisive idiots try to foist on the American people, who are just not contented with the two party's behavior! If you spend too much, cut back. If you're taxed to much, cut back. If we get bailouts, at taxpayer expense, how about some accountability....especially when the Bozo at the top, promised 'transparency'....transparency my ass! You, as well as I KNOW, it went to the mega-corporations, and to funding God only knows what, without scrutiny of the American public...even though, we have to pay for it! That is complete crap, any way you slice it! I think even you could agree with that...as any 'normal' citizen, of ANY country....wouldn't you say?
As far as 'selective' military involvements overseas, just which ones to find consistent with what our, or any military, is supposed to be doing?.......and what is all this run-up with TRILLIONS of dollars, with NO apparent rhyme or reason?..............I'd be tempted to give you a couple of takes on it, but from your tones, I don't think that you'd be able to spare any rationality...even though REPEATEDLY, I've been correct on a WHOLE LOT of stuff...and/or at least, got people to think further than the typical surface nonsense being thrown out there through the 'info-tainment' 'news' outlets.
Being that, as it may, why do you think that I'm against you getting accurate information? That is absolutely silly!!..and that being said, I maintain, and accurately so, that we, as a people, are being fed a bunch of lying horse crap, designed specifically to mislead, and cover up greater evils....to which WE should be against, not singing the praises for....wouldn't you say?..the only problem is, is to get accurate info, you have to make room, by getting rid of false misleadings, that you seemed to hold onto, for dear life.
Bobert wants to make everything a Democrat versus Republican issue, and can't get past that. I believe the corrupted course, we, as a nation, are on, is in control of both parties..and I think the evidence is overwhelmingly supportive of that view! No matter what 'party' gets into 'power', we keep heading down the same path, wouldn't you say?..and even up to the exact SAME policies, that both parties are pointing their fingers at each other, for the EXACT same shit, blaming each other..........and not questioning 'WHY'!...and furthermore, not being able to correct it..from either 'side'!
...and for this, I'M the 'bad guy'???????????
Shit, I'm just a musician....a pretty fuckin' good one, at that....and I don't like seeing what the corrupt power mongers are doing to my country, and my fellow country-men!...including you two!..not to mention others who haven't got the 'cajones' to post..or at least, discuss things with a genuine open(as in 'liberal') mind!!
I'm telling you, we've been betrayed!....and by BOTH parties. So get over it, as far as blaming me, or anyone that you erringly perceive, as being 'against' you.
P.S. Besides, you must be, by now, getting tired of getting the snot slapped out of you!

GfS

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19 Jun 11 - 04:18 PM (#3173017)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, the Tea Party is certainly a racist party and a party that has used terrorism to control others... Ask your black firend, especially those who are older and grew up in the South and they'll tell you that the Tea Party is the new Klan... If you grew up in Jim Crow South than you certainly understand terrorism...

They scared my mom away from a town meeting in Florida with their insults, threats and screaming at people... And my mom don't scare easily... And they yelled "Hang him" at Palin rallies in reference to Obama...

No, they are very much a terrorist organization...

B~

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20 Jun 11 - 09:17 AM (#3173269)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "They scared my mom away from a town meeting in Florida with their insults, threats and screaming at people... And my mom don't scare easily... And they yelled "Hang him" at Palin rallies in reference to Obama..."

...and you two got scared away, just by asking you questions, and asking for explanations. Sounds pretty weak to me. Did you ever stop to think, that your rantings about Tea Partiers, there in the South, might have more to do with some residual biases found primarily with Southerners, than Tea Partiers???..I mean the KKK is primarily a Southern gig, and not as prevalent in the rest of America. NOBODY, that I've met here, even relates to the KKK...AT ALL!! They (the KKK), have NO credibility, anywhere I've traveled. So your fixation, on equating the two of them, as one entity, is just full of hot air...excuse me...'Hot Southern Air'.
But let's not steer away from the SAME tactic that quasi smug 'liberal' wannabes, accuse others with their childish accusations.
Rather than painting all dissenters with the same brush, as 'racists', 'bigots', 'homophobes' et al..blah blah blah, then running away to hide, like a bunch of ninnies, maybe you might consider, what beyond 'name calling' you guys ain't got much going on yourself!!..
You can always vote for Obama, again!....regardless of any sound judgment, or the ability to take a look around the rest of the country.

...and why bitch at me??..I'm not the one belly-achin' because I was deceived. I'm not the one disillusioned that the guy I voted for turned out to be a piece of shit.....but don't listen to me...what do I know???..(You don't have to try to wrap your brains around that one..you don't have enough wrapping paper!!).

A Reminder, from Bob Dylan:

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

GfS

P.S. Do ya' think they'll ever understand who he was talking about???

---

20 Jun 11 - 09:52 AM (#3173285)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh yeah......."The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??"

Brought to you from the same mentality that thought ALL 'hippies' were a communist plot!!!

Wavin',

GfS

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20 Jun 11 - 12:51 PM (#3173370)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Still no facts from Bobert about the about Dixiecrat issue he brought up. The man can't can't answer a straight up question and name any Dixiecrats.He Can't explain his own term "shitload"

Just puffin out his chest and blowin hard trying to change the subject which he knows nothing about and calling anyone who disagrees with him ignorant.

Let the record show that Bobert will not and cannot supply any facts about the subjects of the Dixiecrats that he introduced in this forum.

---

Next subject or stink bomb that Bobert introduced in this forum:

Bogus claims as an excuse to start a war:

Now what was the bogus claim about the Gulf of Tonkin?

Who lied about the bogus claim?

Was that war declared? How many people died in that war?

Bobert claims to be a protester so maybe he has some facts about his subject.

---

20 Jun 11 - 01:40 PM (#3173399)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Sawzaw: "Bobert claims to be a protester so maybe he has some facts about his subject."

Protesters, in general, are called 'protesters' because they 'protest'. Backing up a claim, from which they are 'protesting' about does NOT fall into the 'job description'.
Notice, that there are NUMEROUS subjects that have been brought up, that instead of backing up their 'claims', they then go on to 'accusing', as if all readers, by word association, begin to 'protest' the person to whom the 'protesting accusation' is made....without a scrap of truthful foundation to back it up!!!

It is a tactic that has been used relentlessly, by so-called, phonies, who align themselves with trumped up 'liberal' causes.

The history speaks for itself, and is quite evident....but then...
"History teaches us, that man never learns from history"!!

Instead, I guess they're going to hide and pout, in lieu of wising up, and considering learning something that THEY can incorporate into their 'hipness'.

Hey, Sawzaw...This was a good one!..Have a good day!
Bobert, and Don....Still love you guys!

Regards to All,

GfS

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20 Jun 11 - 02:49 PM (#3173433)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

". . . and you two got scared away. . . ."

If it floats (bloats) your little ego to think that, GfS, then go right ahead. I'm nothing if not generous to those who need to go to ridiculous lengths to prop up their crumbling self-esteem.

I find it a complete waste of time to try to discuss or debate with someone who isn't interested in even considering other viewpoints and responds with nothing more substantial than trying to shove those with whom they disagree into shallow pigeon holes with pseudo-political labels, uses degrading insults, and generally treats people with utter contempt.

And as to the degrading insults. Obviously you are unaware that the insults don't degrade the person you're trying to insult, they degrade YOU.

I can have that sort of friendly, intellectual discussion with my neighbor's yappy Yorkshire terrier. When I turn around and walk away, he undoubtedly thinks like he's faced me down—when, in reality, I could squash him under my foot. But—I'm kind to dumb animals. . . .

GfS—and Sawzaw—your questions have been answered many times over. It's just that the two of you would not be happy with ANY answer, you want to just keep the argument going.

I am just as unhappy about the way this country is being run as you are. But as is illustrated by the way you talk to and about people here on these threads, you tend to attribute what people do, in general and in politics in particular, to sheer stupidity and/or corruption and deceitfulness. In some cases, particularly in politics, this is, indeed, true. But I know, FOR A FACT that there are some truly honest politicians out there. I know a few personally. This is because I don't just talk about it. I am politically active. And the fact that I AM politically active gives me a great opportunity to observe things from close up, and it also gives me a pretty good education on how things work. Or DON'T work, as the case may be.

As to Obama not being qualified to be President, his education (Law) and prior political experience actually makes him more qualified than most candidates. And that's a fact. And his heart's in the right place. Both of these things were evident during the campaign, AND after. And still. His mistake, as I have stated a number of times, is in trying to build consensus and get cooperation and compromise with people who have a vested interest in making sure he fails, and would just as soon impeach him or disqualify him if they thought they could find a viable reason. God knows, they've tried, what with their "birther" B.S., and now attacking him on allegedly "going to war without the approval of Congress" and all that.

And you two guys, with your attitudes, would play right into their hands. Boy, is THAT politically savvy!!

I never said that the Tea Party is a "terrorist organization," but it's beginning to look more and more as if they are. They're a bunch of really pissed-off people. But in case anybody missed it, what they have gone on record about is that they are pissed off, not at the fact that the top five percent of the wealthy in this country have—individually—more wealth than the rest of the population (95%) combined! And that they share almost NONE of the tax burden, if any at all, while the rest of us are paying a much higher percentage of our incomes than they are. That doesn't seem to bother the Tea Party one bit.

No. Instead, they're pissed off at people who receive Social Security checks (from a system they've paid into all of their work lives) when they've grown too old to work or have become disabled. They're pissed off at Obama wanting to institute a national health plan when we are the only civilized (?), industrialized country in the world that doesn't have one and has the costliest health care in the world—but far from the best, as some like to claim.

They're pissed off at the government's attempts to regulate Wall Street and the banks, which, due to the fact that Ronald Reagan managed to gut the Securities and Exchange Commission and a number of other regulatory agencies, regulations instituted by Franklin D. Roosevelt in the 1930s to put a leash on the people who caused the Great Depression, resulted in the ongoing Wall Street Ponzi Scheme plunging us into the current economic mess we are in.

These people think they're freeing the country from the excesses of "Big Government" when, in actuality, they want to turn the whole country over to the very crooks that are the cause of all their woes.

But they're too bloody ignorant to understand this, having received their political education and their understanding of economics from the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Bill O'Reilly, and the other charlatans of the Right Wing (so called) "news" media.

As to pulling the troops out of Afghanistan, to do that now would be disastrous, when the pressure the U. S. presence has put on the situation there has led to overtures that look like they could result in a peaceable coalition between the Karzai government and a chastened Taliban. NOT a good time for us to leave, and Obama knows that, so he IS doing the right thing. It's a matter of smart timing.

I (and others) have already pointed out that the U. S. involvement in Libya is NOT the U. S. "invading Libya," it is a joint operation between NATO and the UN. And the U. S. is a member of, and has obligations to, both organizations. The British launched the Tomahawk missiles from British ships, and the U. S. provides air cover and was given the assignment (by the way, the French are spearheading the operation) of taking out Qaddafi's air defenses. No U. S. "boots on the ground." Why did the UN and NATO want to do this? Libyan's, following the lead of the Egyptians, were demonstrating for regime change when Qaddafi started murdering his own people

Fasten your seat belt, GfS:   It's a Human Rights thing!

And we know from threads on other subjects just how concerned you are with human rights.

Don Firth

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20 Jun 11 - 02:52 PM (#3173436)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

First of all, I ain't afraid of the Tea Party people any more than I was afraid of the Klan... I knew people who were members of the Klan back in the 60s and 70s and they didn't individually scare me in the slightest... Most of them were just loudmouths who unless they were with their buddies were purdy wimpy...

It's when these folks get into a mob they can be dangerous... My mom never went into that town meeting because of the Tea Party outside playing mob... Lots of other elderly people who came to speak or to just listen turned around as well... My mom was 90 at the time so I'm glad she didn't try to push her way thru the rednecks... She, however, in her day didn't back down and was arrested several times in civil rights demonstrations...

As for generalizations??? There are occasions when common sense takes over and generalizations work in keeping you safe... There are places that folks just don't need to be... I mean, back when I was working at Rubicon North in Richmond I worked every other weekend from Friday night until Monday morning as SOD (Staff on Duty)... Rubicon North was a drug treatment half-way house and was at the the corner of 2nd and Calhoun which was right in the middle of one of the roughest neighborhoods in Richmond... I knew lots of people and would sit out on the sidewalk sometimes and play geetar or just talk with people well past midnight... The operative word is that people knew me... All kinds of people knew me... Pimps, hookers, ripper 'n runners... So I was relatively safe unless I got shot by accident from a stray bullet...

There are 2nd & Calhouns in cities across the country where today, even though I have a good amount of acquired black dialect, rhythm and mannerism I wouldn't be safe getting out of the car at 3 in the morning... I mean, generalizations do serve learned people well in certain circumstances...

So, yeah, like me not wanting to get out of the car like 5 blocks from Temple University in Philly at 3 in the morning or 5 blocks from Johns Hopkins in Baltimore at 3 in the morning, my mom went to a town meeting and was met by a mob of rude people... Were all these people rude people??? No, probably not... But enough were so that common sense + generalizations told her to turn around...

That is the problem with mob (herd) mentality... Things can get out of hand and people hurt... That's why when I heard some of the   things that Sarah Plain was saying at rallies which brought people to yell "Hang him" it was clear to anyone with common sense that had Obam been at that rally then maybe one of the folks would have tried to either kill or harm him... When I hear people saying that it's time for 2nd amendment remedies these people are giving permission to others to do just that... There have already been acts of violence carried out by people associated with the Tea Party so it isn't some figment of one's imagination that these acts could escalate or be repeated...

Bottom line: The Tea Party has put out threats and backed them up... They have tacitly given permission to any wingnut out there with a gun that killing is okay if you are defending some policy position of your party...

This is dangerous... This is un American... This is a deterrent to compromise, democracy, discussion, etc...

The Tea Party has never, to my knowledge, denounced these tactics or apologized for using them... Until they do, they are not unlike the Taliban in the way they try to get their policies in place... In other words: terrorism!!!

Like it or not, that is what it is... Let them denounce these tactics and apologize and maybe a new ball game... Until then, they do try to scare people and that ain't what democracy is all about... That what dictators do...

Bob

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20 Jun 11 - 03:29 PM (#3173454)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don, your points are both well taken, and at least you stated them, without your usual name calling(mostly), to those who disagree.

On Afghanistan, whether we belong to an alliance or not, we still have to go to Congress, whether you like it or not. After all, they do, or are suppose to handle the funding....something this administration seems not to give a shit about, for any number of 'programs'. Agree?

"I'm nothing if not generous to those who need to go to ridiculous lengths to prop up their crumbling self-esteem."

Physician, heal thyself!

"I am just as unhappy about the way this country is being run as you are."

Then you might consider stopping your relentless support of 'causes' that are found to be in error!

"But I know, FOR A FACT that there are some truly honest politicians out there. I know a few personally. This is because I don't just talk about it. I am politically active. And the fact that I AM politically active gives me a great opportunity to observe things from close up, and it also gives me a pretty good education on how things work. Or DON'T work, as the case may be."

At first I couldn't tell if you were bragging or complaining! The same thing I posted about 'protesters' can easily be applied to 'activists'. Just because a person is 'active' is not a guarantee that his views are accurate...he's just active! it may be noted, that though one might not question your sincerity, and whether or not you are sincere, it is no reason for YOU not to question whether you may be 'sincerely wrong'!

And as to the 'human rights' issue, again, that is only defined as what political rose colored glasses you're looking through...For instance, what about the human rights issue in Iran??? Egypt?? Venezuela??..here, as to their 'right' for people to dissent, en mass, and form an appendage, to either political party, without the hate and discontent being aimed at them by BOTH sides?? Or is that confined to human rights, only defined by either or both sides, as what is defined by 'human'?..or rights'
I am NOT a Tea Partier, nor Republican, nor Democrat...but I can listen to each of their raps, and see certain truths, and fallacies in any one of their persuasive 'issues'.
I think its high time, that we begin to remember that we are Americans, who generally are both selfish, materialistic, but also a generous people. Stirring up, any segment to hate, resent or close off, only brings divisions and isolation to us all, for the common good, of us, and to the rest of the world, to whom we may be able to help, or trade, or ally ourselves with. By in large, the PEOPLE of America, don't 'HATE' any segmented group of anyone on the map...other than those who, through propaganda, we are 'taught' to hate, resent,(etc. etc.)
What is happening, though, by this administration, AND PREVIOUS ONES, AS WELL, is the pass, that they give, not to the just the 'rich', but to the very people corrupting them, and well as us as a nation, in their quest to usurp power AWAY from our very form of government, and make way for THEIR preferential treatment, to implement 'laws' and favors, to accommodate THEIR wills, which often intrudes on the rights, of WE, as a people! In this matter, you have NO argument!!
That being said, let's not confuse, REAL issues with trumped up phony issues, not based on fact, but rather on the laying a premise, for yet another, basis for constraining us, taking AWAY more of our freedom and liberty, for their profits and power over our lives!!!
I have NO issues, with the 'rich', if they earned it, and earned it legitimately, without imposing their wills on other people's rights!

Regards,
GfS

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20 Jun 11 - 03:37 PM (#3173458)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Correction: On Libya, whether we belong to an alliance or not, we still have to go to Congress, whether you like it or not. After all, they do, or are suppose to handle the funding....something this administration seems not to give a shit about, for any number of 'programs'. Agree?

'Libya' to replace 'Afghanistan'

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20 Jun 11 - 03:59 PM (#3173470)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

If today is like yesterday (Sunday) the United States military will kill people in 5 (five) sovereign countries, all dominated by followers of Islam.

Yes, Obama is Commander in Chief and he is responsible for what our fighting men do.

He is overdue in asking Congress to approve our actions in Lybia and Yemen.

If he were a Republican and we had a Democrat-controlled Congress, there would be talk of impeachment.

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20 Jun 11 - 04:21 PM (#3173484)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

". . . at least you stated them, without your usual name calling. . . ."

Sweet Aunt Fanny!! THAT from YOU!???

"On Afghanistan, whether we belong to an alliance or not, we still have to go to Congress. . . ."

DO buy a world atlas and study it. That was LIBYA I was talking about.

"Then you might consider stopping your relentless support of 'causes' that are found to be in error!"

Which causes are those, GfS? You don't know what causes I support, so what are you popping off about?

Neither bragging nor complaining, GfS. Just saying.

What "rose colored glasses" are those?

AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON.

You see? There you go. Yapping safely behind the fence with nothing really to say other that how smart you are and what a hopeless ignoramus I am. And in your yapping, you're just repeating the same old stuff. Why should I waste my time trying to discuss things with you? You just try to twist everything into a put-down or an insult.

Okay. I'll walk off. And you can have the reassurance that your yapping has frightened me off.

I'll go and have a more intelligent conversation with my neighbor's little Yorkie.

Don Firth

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20 Jun 11 - 06:02 PM (#3173553)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

So, those who think there's no terrorism in the Tea Party have yet to address the guns at town hall meetings and the racial slurs screamed at Congresspeople. Are these quasi-terrorist activities, or not? If not, why not? What about their desire to force their religious/moral values on the rest of us?

On the non-terrorist economic front, also unaddressed is the cut cut cut taxes philosophy. How does this work, if we still want to fund our government? How does the desire to do away with regulation of the financial markets not play into the hands of greedy fatcats who buy our Congresspeople and force their "make me even richer" policies down our throats?

GfS, I agree with most of what you have said about the corporate takeover of America. How do the economic policies of the Tea Party address that problem?

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20 Jun 11 - 07:01 PM (#3173568)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Excellent question, John! I await the answer with bated breath.

Don Firth

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20 Jun 11 - 07:46 PM (#3173587)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The Tea Party has no answer for that... I know these people... They hate government until they need it and then they can't get enough of it and are pissed off when they find that Medicare is only going to pay 90 days for Mama's long-care and that after that Mama is going to have to pay out of the money that Bubba thought he was going to inherit...

Talk about anti-government... Bubba is ready to kill some sumabich because there just ain't enough government out there for anti-government Bubba when he ***wants*** it???

This is the Tea Party right down the line...

Ignorant people with simplistic views of the worlds and simplistic solutions to complex problems...

B~

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20 Jun 11 - 11:42 PM (#3173651)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

John P; "On the non-terrorist economic front, also unaddressed is the cut cut cut taxes philosophy. How does this work, if we still want to fund our government?"

OK, I'll answer each part individually. Much of the tax increases will be used to pay off the debt, and the increases that went to fund CORPORATE bailouts, to which are not being used to create jobs, as the American public was led to believe. Funding the government is one thing, funding crony supporters, who corrupt the government, is quite another! This, administration, as well as others before it, have superseded the will of their electorate, by funneling our resources to them, rather than facilitating the public, of whom they were elected to represent. In short, the government, which you and I are supposed to be a part of, are now subject to globalist corporate dictates, with OUR money supporting them, rather than a representative government, carrying out the will OF THE PEOPLE, and taxing us, for the facilitation of those services. In even shorter, it is fraud!

John P: "How does the desire to do away with regulation of the financial markets not play into the hands of greedy fatcats who buy our Congresspeople and force their "make me even richer" policies down our throats?"

Doing away with the regulations that limit excessive corrupting practices, I would not support. Leaving freedom to expand and develop, businesses and technology, or to invent, I would like to see relaxed, but within the parameters of the already existing anti-monopoly, anti-trust laws, which BTW, are not enforced, as long as they DO NOT intrude on the rights of others, to do the same..nor should they be used to keep competing smaller entrepreneurs, from doing the same.
All to often, some corporation, with its money and influencing power, get their fingers on our elected officials throats, to look another way, and pass legislation creating a loophole, from which the business(es), use leverage to foist upon the public, a new 'law', or artificially create a demand, in which that said business forces the public to HAVE to patronize their business, or service. This practice should be illegal, and enforced, as such!.....speaking of which...
The medical profession: We have heard that Medicaid is in financial trouble, and needs to be replaced with this new Health Care crap. First of all, Medicaid is OK..EXCEPT for the fraud, which is said to have risen the cost(conservatively speaking), to at least 35%. would see to it that ANY medical office, agent, doctor, hospital, clinic, laboratory, pharmacy, or any related attorneys, or accounting offices found involved in defrauding the government(us), would face stiff criminal charges, including the shutting down of such said practices, and mandatory jail time! The same goes for insurance companies, financial institutions, or legal services!! We have enough 'laws' on the books..how about enforcing them....and by the way, any government official found NOT enforcing them, due to a 'special interest', which goes contrary to the law, would immediately face, not only removal from that position, but restitution, and jail time..regardless of party affiliation, or tenure!! NO favors granted, when it comes to violating the trust that the people should have, in those looking out for us...on our nickle!! Fair enough?

As to the first question(s): "Are these quasi-terrorist activities, or not? If not, why not? What about their desire to force their religious/moral values on the rest of us?"

I think that people showing up with their guns waving in the air is just plain stupid. Whether it is a 'terrorist' activity would depend on what else they do with that gun. Any party should vigorously discourage those displays of anger, or threats. In most states, there are laws against, 'brandishing a weapon', and/or 'menacing'. If any party wants to gain supporters, they should do so legally. A little while back, on this forum, one particular(unnamed) member posted, "It's time to rise up.."..with connotations of violent revolution. I responded with a smarty pants remark "Get some Viagra". I did this only to discourage what could be seen as inflammatory seditious solicitations, coming from us, here on Mudcat!..not that I don't understand, or empathize with his feelings...(I did him a favor, mixed it with a little humor.. but he probably didn't take it that way...too bad!)

Although that may, or may not eventually happen, I don't think that is any less inflammatory that waving firearms in the air, or jacking rounds in the chamber! I do NOT support a violent overthrow of the government, however, that being said, I could see supporting one's own self defense. I WOULD support the government enforcing the very laws that would/could prevent an overthrow, due to people's frustration with loopholes and unenforced laws, causing people to think that an overthrow should be necessary. The anger that has risen in this country is mostly caused by government's corrupt dealings with corrupt 'special interests', and imposing their wills, over our rights! Perhaps a little less tolerance from our elected officials, of these practices would gladly be met by the support of the citizenry...you think??...a little exposure to the public, and a responding public outcry, may just get a momentum going, in that direction....regardless of party affiliation.

John P: "...What about their desire to force their religious/moral values on the rest of us?"

Muslims??????? Christians????? Unitarians??? Jehovah Witnesses???? Catholics??? Protestants??? Astrologists???? Buddhists???? Capitalists??? Communists??? Socialists??? Atheists??????!!?? ..and so on....?

I hope I was able to clarify your queries.

Regards to All!! (Please forgive any typos)

GfS

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21 Jun 11 - 08:44 AM (#3173825)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

If waving the guns has the effect that these boorish people want then it is terrorism...

Think about it, GfinS...

My mom, former civil right activist in her prime but now frail and 90 years old, makes the effort to get dressed up (gloves and all) and pushes herself (with a walker) to her car and drives 3 miles (which to her is like a 100 miles), parks, get out and walks a block (again with her walker) toward a "public meeting" and all for naught because the Tea Party goons are there scaring everyone away, that ***IS*** ...

...***TERRORISM***...

They don't have to shoot anyone, though that has also occurred but poorly reported because the right wing owns the media, to have used "terror" to have their way... If someone has been threatened that alone in many states is a crime because it is traumatic for the victim...

Like I have said, when the Tea Party denounces these tactics and apologizes to the folks they have victimized, then we have a new ball game... Right now, it's the same old ball game...

B~

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21 Jun 11 - 09:58 AM (#3173852)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

Democrats know that the Tea Party beliefs are those of most Americans and are a serious threat to their continuing control of power.

They have fabricated numerous events and staged stunts that are intended to make the Tea Part folks look bad. This is pure old Soviet propaganda.


by Kurt Nimmo

(April) 2010

House Majority Whip James Clyburn invoked civil rights era imagery to demonize opponents of Obamacare.

On March 20, Democrats and the corporate media launched a misleading propaganda offensive claiming Tea Party protesters in Washington spat on Missouri Democrat Emanuel Cleaver and hurled racial epithets at members of the Congressional Black Caucus as they walked to the Capitol to cast a vote on Obama's authoritarian health care bill.

"The congressman was walking into the Capitol to vote, when one protester spat on him. The congressman would like to thank the U.S. Capitol Police officer who quickly escorted the other Members and him into the Capitol, and defused the tense situation with professionalism and care," said Danny Rotert, a spokesman for Cleaver.

In fact, nobody spat on Cleaver. He wandered too close to a screaming protester and was hit by flying saliva. The "N" word cannot be heard in either of the videos below, although it is difficult to tell what beyond "kill the bill" is being yelled at the Congress critters as they flaunted their power over the plebs.
"I have heard things today that I have not heard since March 15, 1960, when I was marching to get off the back of the bus," House Majority Whip James Clyburn, a South Carolina Democrat and the highest-ranking black official in Congress, told the CIA's favorite newspaper, the Washington Post.

Clyburn tried to turn attention away from the fact most Americans are opposed to Obamacare and more than a few were so outraged they traveled to Washington and yelled at House members who subsequently betrayed the Constitution and handed the government authoritarian power over millions of people. He even rolled in civil rights imagery in order to make his point and prevent rational opposition.

"A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this, much of this is not about health care a all. And I think a lot of those people today demonstrated that this is not about health care," he said, "it is about trying to extend a basic fundamental right to people who are less powerful."

One has to ask why members of the House decided to wander into a crowd of people opposed to a bill they were about to vote on. Congress critters usually use a tunnel in order to avoid the commoners. But on this "historical" day they waded directly into a hostile crowd.

Is there a reason for this? Of course. It was a propaganda stunt designed by Democrats. They were well aware of the people gathered outside upset over Obama's totalitarian care. The imagery was nearly perfect for their purposes — a crowd of howling mostly white people confronting a small number of black people. It would reaffirm what Chris Matthews and other corporate media apologists for state power have said for months — opposition to Obamacare (or anything the government does) is racist. The complaisant corporate media inserted the accusation of racism in the argument at exactly the right time. It was all part of a well orchestrated plan.

Democrats like to pretend Republicans and their compromised Tea Party followers are responsible for a brick thrown through the window of Rep. Slaughter's office and other incidents of minor property damage. Is it possible Democrats orchestrated these events as part of their effort to demonize opposition to Obamacare?

Recall the case of Maurice Schwenkler in Denver. Schwenkler, who is a "transgender" activist connected to the SEIU supported group Colorado Citizens Coalition, was arrested for smashing eleven windows at the Democrat headquarters last year. "While Schwenkler does not appear in the state's voter registration database, a person by that name in November 2008 received $500 from a political 527 committee called Colorado Citizens Coalition for 'communications,' according to campaign finance disclosures," the Denver Post reported.

Did Schwenkler attack the Democrats because he opposes Obamacare? Hardly. It was an attempt to blame those opposed to Obamacare and make them look like violent thugs. Fortunately, Schwenkler was caught by the cops and the real story came out. The truth, however, was dwarfed by the initial sensationalistic story and the insinuation of Tea Party activists gone wild. News reports of Schwenkler's real motivation were greeted by the sound of crickets.

SEIU thugs attacked Tea Party protesters at a Rep. Russ Carnahan town hall in St. Louis around the same time. "Union thugs viciously attacked a patriot, Kenneth Gladney, who was handing out Gadsen flags outside the stage-managed event. The St. Louis Tea Party was also demonstrating against Democrats attempting to force Obamacare through Congress," Infowars.com reported on August 7, 2009.

Did Tea Party activists beat up members of the Congressional Black Caucus? No. In fact, they did not even spit on them as the Democrats claim.

Fortunately, Democrat and "progressive" efforts to portray Tea Party activists and millions of ordinary Americans outraged over Obama's authoritarian health care "reform" as brick-toting and gas line cutting neanderthals will continue to fall flat.

Fifty-four percent of surveyed Americans oppose Obamacare and only 41% approve, according to a Rasmussen Reports poll conducted on March 21. "Among insured Americans, 82 percent rate their health coverage positively. Among insured people who've experienced a serious or chronic illness or injury in their family in the last year, an enormous 91 percent are satisfied with their care, and 86 percent are satisfied with their coverage," ABC News reported last October.

Demonizing the opposition as crazed "teabaggers" and white supremacist militia members will not change the broad and growing opposition to Obamacare and a tyrannical government growing by leaps and bounds. Chris Matthews' diatribes and bully boy interview tactics will change little.

Democrats are in trouble and this will become obvious in November during the midterm elections. Let's hope the outrage does not benefit the Republicans who are the right shoe to the Democrats' left shoe on the same corrupt and authoritarian body politic.

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21 Jun 11 - 10:20 AM (#3173866)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

the Tea Party beliefs are those of most Americans

Not by any objective standard in this universe, PeeDee. That statement exceeds even your usual level of delusional bullshit.

And the opinion of a somewhat unstable libertarian blogger Nimmo written over a year ago is relevant how, exactly?

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21 Jun 11 - 10:28 AM (#3173868)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

John P: "...What about their desire to force their religious/moral values on the rest of us?"

Muslims??????? Christians????? Unitarians??? Jehovah Witnesses???? Catholics??? Protestants??? Astrologists???? Buddhists???? Capitalists??? Communists??? Socialists??? Atheists??????!!?? ..and so on....?

I hope I was able to clarify your queries.

Not so much on this question. Your answer doesn't address the issue at all. The Tea Party is overwhelmingly Christian, although the specific religion isn't important. The fact is that the Tea Party is in favor of writing their religious values into law. Abortion, gay marriage, and teaching religion in science classrooms are three of the most visible examples. Do you support this group's desire to legislate their moral beliefs? While it is non-violent, forcing others to live according to their religion seems like a form of terrorism. Can you explain how it isn't?

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21 Jun 11 - 07:13 PM (#3174182)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, she can't, John...

Here in North Carolina just about every white kid attends a private Christian school so we are getting another batch of brain-washed fundamentalists to contend with down the road...

The problem I have is that, being a Follower of Christ, these folks conveniently skip over the parts of Christianity that doesn't serve their dogmatism... In other words, they are part Christian, part something else (Taliban comes to mind)...

B~

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22 Jun 11 - 01:07 PM (#3174616)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

GfS, Thank you for the clear statement of where you stand on many of the Tea Party issues that have been batted around in this thread. I find myself in agreement with most of what you said. What strikes me, though, is that while you share most of the goals of the Tea Party, you don't seem to be in agreement with their methodology.

With the exception of a few Republican ideologues on Mudcat, I think most of us agree that our government is in the hands of people we never elected and who manipulate our public policy for their personal gain. Far too many of our politicians are basically paid employees of large and corrupt corporations. I think we mostly agree that this is ruining our country and that we would like it to end. The way the Tea Party wants to go about it, however, is simplistic, unrealistic, uncompromising, combative, and actually plays into the hands of the corporations. And then their message is all mixed up with a coercive religious social agenda, which is where you and I part company on their goals.

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25 Jun 11 - 01:08 AM (#3176074)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Blowhard Bobert ducks another straight up question while claiming others need to answer his. I presume he will duck this question also

---

The Southern Manifesto was a document written in 1956 by pro-segregation legislators angry that the Supreme Court had passed the Brown v. Board of Education decision, which mandated the integration of public schools. It was signed by 19 Senators and 81 members of the House of Representatives, including the entire congressional delegations of the states of Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and South Carolina. Most of the signatories were Southern Democrats. The signers of the Southern Manifesto were afraid that the racial hierarchy -- with whites on the top and blacks and other persons of color below them -- would be irrevocably harmed by Brown and other Supreme Court decisions. They were pro-segregation because they were white supremacists, and white supremacy was normative in the 1950s.

Signers:

    John Sparkman (D)                  Lister Hill (D)                  William Fulbright (D)                John L. McClellan (D)
    George A. Smathers (D)          Spessard Holland (D)    Walter F. George (D)                Richard B. Russell (D)
    Allen J. Ellender (D)                  Russell B. Long (D)       James O. Eastland (D)             John Stennis (D)
    Samuel Ervin (D)                      W. Kerr Scott (D)          Strom Thurmond (D)                Olin D. Johnston (D)
    Price Daniel (D)                      Harry F. Byrd (D)          A. Willis Robertson (D)             George W. Andrews (D)
    Frank W. Boykin (D)                Carl Elliott (D)                George M. Grant (D)                George Huddleston, Jr. (D)
    Robert E. Jones, Jr. (D)          Albert Rains (D)             Kenneth A. Roberts (D)            Armistead Selden (D)
    Ezekiel C. Gathings (D)            Oren Harris (D)             Brooks Hays (D)                      Wilbur D. Mills (D)
    William F. Norrell (D)               James W. Trimble (D)    Charles Edward Bennett (D)      James A. Haley (D)
    Albert Herlong, Jr. (D)             D.R. Matthews (D)         Paul G. Rogers (D)                  Robert L. F. Sikes (D)
    Iris F. Blitch (D)                      Paul Brown (D)               James C. Davis (D)                John James Flynt, Jr. (D)
    Tic Forrester (D)                   Phil M. Landrum (D)         Henderson Lanham (D)          J. L. Pilcher (D)
    Prince H. Preston (D)             Carl Vinson (D)                Hale Boggs (D)                      Overton Brooks (D)
    F. Edward Hebert (D)             George S. Long (D)          James H. Morrison (D)          Otto E. Passman (D)
    T. Ashton Thompson (D)       Edwin E. Willis (D)            Thomas G. Abernethy (D)       William M. Colmer (D)
    Frank E. Smith (D)                Jamie L. Whitten (D)         John Bell Williams (D)          Arthur Winstead (D)
    Hugh Q. Alexander (D)          Graham A. Barden (D)       Herbert C. Bonner (D)          Frank Carlyle (D)
    Carl Durham (D)                  Lawrence Fountain (D)       Woodrow W. Jones (D)       George A. Shuford (D)
    Robert T. Ashmore (D)         W.J. Bryan Dorn (D)          John L. McMillan (D)            James P. Richards (D)
    John J. Riley (D)                L. Mendel Rivers (D)            Jere Cooper (D)                Clifford Davis (D)
    James B. Frazier, Jr. (D)    Tom J. Murray (D)             Wright Patman (D)             John Dowdy (D)
    Walter Rogers (D)               O. C. Fisher (D)                  Martin Dies, Jr. (D)             Joel T. Broyhill (R)
    Richard Harding Poff (R)

Question: How many of these racists switched to the Republican party?

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25 Jun 11 - 01:40 AM (#3176079)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Whenever someone starts a post by calling someone else a "blowhard" or with some other personal insult, I make it a point NOT to read the rest of the post. That tells me all I need to know about the character and intellect of the poster.

Don Firth

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25 Jun 11 - 08:52 AM (#3176182)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Question: How many of these racists switched to the Republican party?

No, the questions are:

1. 1956? Gimmie a bleepin' break.

2. How many of these racists abjured their former views and when?

2. Why aren't the home-grown Republican racists (and authors and implementers of "The Southern Strategy" of a much more recent date equally if not more important?

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25 Jun 11 - 11:23 AM (#3176242)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Looks like no one here knows anything about the "shitload" of Dixiecrats that switched to the Republican party.

Hint: The term refers to the 1948 States' Rights Democratic Party.

A blowhard is a person who does not back up their assertions except with ad hominem [logical fallacy] attacks. To avoid responding, they start a new blowhard attack.

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25 Jun 11 - 11:35 AM (#3176247)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"We have all planned to assult you by arriving at your house and putting a nice little bullet in your head"

email sent March 9th:

From: Left Wing Maniac Government Hater
Sent: Wed 3/9/2011 9:18 PM
To: Sen.Kapanke; Sen.Darling; Sen.Cowles; Sen.Ellis; Sen.Fitzgerald; Sen.Galloway; Sen.Grothman; Sen.Harsdorf; Sen.Hopper; Sen.Kedzie; Sen.Lasee; Sen.Lazich; Sen.Leibham; Sen.Moulton; Sen.Olsen
Subject: Atten: Death threat!!!! Bomb!!!!

Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks. Please explain to them that this is because if we get rid of you and your families then it will save the rights of 300,000 people and also be able to close the deficit that you have created. I hope you have a good time in hell. Read below for more information on possible scenarios in which you will die.

WE want to make this perfectly clear. Because of your actions today and in the past couple of weeks I and the group of people that are working with me have decided that we've had enough. We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die. We have tried many other ways of dealing with your corruption but you have taken things too far and we will not stand for it any longer. So, this is how it's going to happen: I as well as many others know where you and your family live, it's a matter of public records. We have all planned to assult you by arriving at your house and putting a nice little bullet in your head. However, we decided that we wouldn't leave it there. We also have decided that this may not be enough to send the message to you since you are so high on Koch and have decided that you are now going to single handedly make this a dictatorship instead of a demorcratic process. So we have also built several bombs that we have placed in various locations around the areas in which we know that you frequent. This includes, your house, your car, the state capitol, and well I won't tell you all of them because that's just no fun. Since we know that you are not smart enough to figure out why this is happening to you we have decided to make it perfectly clear to you. If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will get rid of (in which I mean kill) you. We feel that it's worth our lives to do this, because we would be saving the lives of 300,000 people. Please make your peace with God as soon as possible and say goodbye to your loved ones we will not wait any longer. YOU WILL DIE!!!!

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Wisconsin Teacher Charged With Death Threats Against Lawmakers

Wisconsin teacher Katherine Windels has been charged with sending death misspelled threats to 16 GOP lawmakers because she was angry that they were imposing financial responsibility that crimped her lifestyle.

    Windels also wrote to Cowles that there were several bombs placed in various locations, including his house, his car, and the state capitol, according to the complaint.

    I don't want to tell you all of them because that's just no fun,
the e-mail said.

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25 Jun 11 - 12:53 PM (#3176278)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Hey, I read it on the Internet- it MUST be true.

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26 Jun 11 - 06:09 PM (#3176876)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I wasn't going to respond to the last posts, because the thread was getting stupider and stupider....and I may not, being as I'm wasting my time and talents, as others, to take the time to give certain things thought, and post.....to such block-headed numbskulls!!!!
I'm NOT a political animal, even though I can spot political bullshit, when it crosses my path!

Does the FACT that, when asked to reply or respond, to certain posts, that contain truths, that those who claim to be 'left wing liberals', come back with the stupidest shit on earth??? What is this?? A 'right wing conspiracy'??..or are those who claim to be 'liberal' that fucking stupid???..Either way, you're getting to be a very boring parody, of American politics!!..No wonder your music sucks! You are boring!
Sawzaw posts some legitimate comments, complete with facts and sources, and 'Bobert' comes back with some mindless shit about some old lady in a walker, who got spooked at large crowds, who may or may not have been chanting 'KKK'..or 'LBJ all the way'..who knows, maybe she forgot to turn on her hearing aid as well!!!...Oh??..It was your mother???..Oh, well she don't hear or comprehend to well either..and of course, the apple don't fall too far from the tree!..By the Way, if she is such a Dedicated Democratic Dimwit, (heretofore referred to as the 'DDD'S, being as your obvious lower education didn't see any reason to move any further along up the alphabet), Why was she there in the first place?? Curiosity? Fault finding expedition by walker? Complete happiness with the Dumbocratic party??, looking for a hot politically-minded date? Just WHY did she go??..Not that it even matters. Do you think the KKK chanting shit, might have something to do with the 'rally' being held in the south??..as both Sawzaw, and myself pointed out, Sawzaw being far more detailed about the ingrained, inbred, intolerant, insane bigotry there???

For what its worth, during my little hiatus from Mudcat, I used that opportunity, to, in my spare time, go visit with some people who are Tea Supporter or sympathizers, of the same. While picking their brains, looking to find some sort of racial bias, I found none...SOOO, I tried casually muttering a few racial and ethnic slurs, looking for a re-action. Remember now, I'm NOT in the south. What I got was sharp rebukes, and this verbatim question, "Are you one of those Democratic agitators?.. because if so, you can leave now!".........Just for your info, there, ol' boy!
I did explain to them, that I was just 'testing the waters', and do not have those feelings, myself.
Therefore, YOU might address Sawzaw's comments with something that entails some THOUGHT, instead of one of your typical avoidance-based subject changers. It may slightly dawn on you, that IF you can't come up with a suitable answer, that at least has SOME truth in it, then you might consider what a FRIEND(Sawzaw) is trying to turn you on to..OK?

Then, there is this little ditty. The Titanic is taking on water..real bad....people are scrambling to find lifeboats or life jackets, and the crew is swamped. The Captain (Smith), is frantically, trying to address the problems ad mists the chaos...Too many people, too little lifeboats, failure that is going to lose lives, ultra high intensity shouting, and panic, finger pointing and blaming....and John P comes up, in a frantic, nervous 'beside himself manner' and his main concern, that he stops everything, and blurts, "What I really want to know is, "If Auckie Dildoc, and Lesbia O'Toole would be accepted by the church's children's youth choir, if their pink cufflinks clash with the doilies, at tomorrow's church lunch, in the ship's chapel?"
The discussion WAS about the sinking economy, the dissolving U.S., corruption and because of it, our government being rendered ineffectual to the will, or needs of the people....and is there enough lifeboats!
I almost didn't post that, because John, was, at least, aware enough to agree that we share the same identification of the problems facing our peoples versus the huge international banker fraud being foisted on us all......but, nonetheless, it is what it is...So, in fairness to John: John, there are forms of 'governments' out there in the real world who see homosexuality as a reason for the death penalty..we DON'T want to lose ours!!! ....Do you??

As to Don Firth, Don, I wouldn't risk what little credibility you have left, trying to support, obviously fucked up positions, as the ones I mentioned above. Getting together with Bobert, working up strategies, to getting Bobert to answer questions, all for the sake of the 'Potty Line', I would think is below even you....but then again, it's not up to me which nail you choose to put in your coffin.

Fair Enough??
Love to All......even if I don't post again to this rapidly disintegrating thread! By the way, It WAS started, on a stupid premise, and is certainly dying that way....thanks to its originator!..who just wanted a place to spread his ignorant hate and biases. Thank goodness it got revealed for what it IS and WAS!!

GfS

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26 Jun 11 - 07:11 PM (#3176901)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

What the hell are you talking about, GfS?

I could eat a large can of alphabet soup and shit a more coherent post than that!

Don Firth

P. S.   By the way, as to whether the Tea Party is a terrorist organization or not, read my post on the 2012 Presidential Election thread in response to someone's suggestion that we should all read more Ayn Rand.    Read and learn.

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26 Jun 11 - 07:19 PM (#3176906)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Paul Ryan thinks we should all do the same....Is there a point, hidden somewhere in all this??

Don, I wasn't criticizing you, other than 'teaming up' with Bobert, in support of his ducking and weaving, questions and topics that he dodges!! You would think that he should have the courtesy and politeness to at least answer some of the replies, and questions put to him, form someone else who is polite enough to ask, don't you think? I mean, he is from the south..where is his southern 'hospitality'??

GfS

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26 Jun 11 - 08:16 PM (#3176915)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

Propaganda Minister Firth would have us believe that Ayn Rand must be absolutely perfect in every way before we can take any of her ideas seriously. Too bad he doesn't hold his of heros us to the same standards.

The far Left is already using Ayn Rand to drive a wedge between Christians and Paul Ryan. She was a vocal Athiest, but certainly did not work against Christians. Looks like his enemies cannot take Paul Ryan on with issues so the find some other way to cause damage.

One thing that gives Ayn Rand depth is that she lived in Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution and her father's family business was seized (along with the building, which the family also owned) and their property was given to Red's loyal friends. Rand's family was left impoverished and fled to another city in fear for their lives. She new exctly what can happen when a government has unlimited power.

Rand wanted a fair and free country and a chance to succede. She found both in the good ol' U. S. of A.

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26 Jun 11 - 08:22 PM (#3176916)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, Don, that was about as delusional as GfinS has ever been... I mean, Olympic Team horse manure...

Absolutely delusional...

I mean, she and her new buddy, Sawz, are two peas in a pod...

I mean, really no responding to either where you aren't going to get pure USDA Choice horse manure back...

Neither want to admit the reality that out of the 3000 or so faces on the front page of the Washington Post after the Tea Party rally that their were *****NO***** black people in the crowd... Hey, black folks have been thru stuff that neither GfinS or her buddy, Sawz, have an inkling about and black people understand this stuff... No black faces out of 3000 supposedly cross-section of America???

Give my boney ol' hillbilly butt a break... I might have been born at night but it wasn't last night...

And here's the kicker... Niether GfinS or Sawz ever want to talk about real policies... They want to play fuckin' games, talk endlessly about stuff they have no knowledge of and try to make me some bad man for calling them on their ballgames...

Tough... You gonna post stupid stuff then y6er gonna have to listen to the sermon... Can I get an "Amen"...

BTW, GfinS... My mom is 1000 times more knowledgeable about world and events economics than you and Sawz put together... You don't think so??? Have yer buddy LH act as an intermediary and I'll get you her phone number and you can call her up... Yeah, tell her just how wonderful your new racist Tea Party friend are for starters... And be prepared to get a lesson what the civil rights movement wasd about...

Right now, I doubt if you get it in the slightest...

B~

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26 Jun 11 - 10:45 PM (#3176958)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Ayn Rand, for the record, was a complete nut ball... John Galt is a friggin' Mad Max "After the Thunderdome"... Problem is there ain't no "Thunderdome" unless ya'll let Ayn and her psycho pals out of the "thunderdome" long enough to establish the chaos that the right wing salivates for...

Problem is that "the thunderdome" ain't what most reasonable people want for their kids...

Rand and the Repubs??? Different story... It's all a lie on their part... They have manipulated the powers-at-be too far already... A true Rand scenario can't work in such a corrupted system...

90% corrupted now by Repubs!!! 10% the Dems...

Get 'um all but get the biggest share out first...

B~

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26 Jun 11 - 11:50 PM (#3176969)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

...ahhhh, but GfinS will say it's "on both sides" (as a Tea Partier, mind you) never being willing to admit that the Tea Party is the far right of the Republican Party...

Just the facts...

In other words the friggin' E-X-T-R-E-M-E right,,,

Ya' got some good company there with "Stalker" Sawzer...

BTW, has he offered to send you one of his "SawzBeanies", you know, ahhhh, the Sawz designed tin-foil hat??? ("Buy one now and we'll send you a second one for a penny...")

Tell him to send you the 2nd one for the penny....

B~

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27 Jun 11 - 01:30 AM (#3176984)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

So! pdq is a big fan of Ayn Rand. That explains a lot!

Past my bedtime, folks. I'll be back.

Don Firth

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27 Jun 11 - 08:25 AM (#3177090)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, GfinS...

I have answered every reasonable question put forward...

Ya'll just don't like the answers...

B~

BTW, I don't read Sawz posts anymore... He suffers from a serious case of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder which goes back years as one name after another here in the Mudpit but the one thing that he carries forwards every time he reinvents himself is the same mindless ballgame of obsessing on me... He needs a shrink... You ain't far behind... But I do still read yer stuff... But his??? Nope and other than you I don't think anyone else in Mudburg reads anything he has to cut 'n post...

B~

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27 Jun 11 - 12:36 PM (#3177230)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

The question to be presented to the Tea Party is this: How much freedom do you really want? And what is the nature of that freedom?

Without government regulation of business (which it still does) and protection against health abuses by corporations, the lack of funds for building of roads and infrastructure (no Tea Party people are going to fund that), the chiseling of credit card companies, diminishing the role of bailout banks (robber banks instead of bank robbers), the curbing of the enormous profiteers from war, what kind of freedom are they talking about?

There is and has never been totally personal freedom and only would-be anarchists would advocate for that. The inherent logic of the Tea Party would lead to abolishing prison systems, an encroachment of personal "freedoms", resolving in no one paying taxes, which would excise revenue to do anything for the good of the country but leave only a token for the individual who would not be able to function without a government, and have to build his/her own roads, forget mailing letters through the post office, protect themselves by arming against everyone, eating unregulated food, constantly acquiring money for personal needs at the expense of the enjoyment of leisure, no five day work week, no vacation times, no protective unions, and a general sinking into a John Wayne Ayn Rand Distopia, and you call that "freedom"? I call it madness and selfishness.

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27 Jun 11 - 01:19 PM (#3177255)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

They are clueless about what "freedom" means, Strings... They think it means that ***they*** have the freedom to ram their radical and short-sighted agenda down everyone else's throats???

Like I said... "clueless"...

But it doesn't stop with freedom... They also want ***their*** country back??? Back to what??? Back to 1952??? 1859??? 1789??? I mean, thes are completely empty words which may make these racists feel better but but they are meaningless...

Clueless again...

They want government out of their lives??? This a good one... Half the stuff they want puts more government into our lives... The other half they just cherry pick for their own personal biases and prejudices...

More cluelessness...

It's astounding just how empty the Tea Party really...

B~

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27 Jun 11 - 01:29 PM (#3177260)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

OOOPS, forgot to sign the end of the other one.........


Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 01:23 PM

Oh Dearest Bobert,
What is this?? You've answered, or even commented on mine??? Now, come on, this is beginning to get obvious to everyone, that this is a pattern of yours. Hey, YOU started the thread, and when people get on, and post to your topic, don't you think it would be decent of you to respond to them, other than jumping around, like a epileptic step dancer, to avoid responding to 'Something', that you've been indoctrinated to wag your tail at, although, it has been revealed, to be just another, policy, through each respected party, working for the mega-bankers(et al),..to whom you claim to oppose??......and now you're sounding like the 'guilty party, of having your spouse walk in on you, suspecting another lover, and you're the guilty one, trying to keep her from looking in the closet!!'

Come on, now, we love ya', talk to us and be honest, and open. The EXCHANGE of ideas, that are true, is a currency of its own. Talk 'bout WEALTHY!!......(tax free, too!).

You can talk to Sawzaw, too..and Sawzaw exchange that what is true, and if stuff 'don't line up', then find out 'WHY?'...instead of playing this game of 'point the fingers' then 'hide and seek'. The object of your thread was to come to a truth about 'Something'...wasn't it???? ...'Something' That might just require a little 'give AND take'.....and maybe even a little INFORMATION, that you didn't know before, and vice-verse!

Now if you want me to connect certain dots for ya', that keeps you unable to process that info, and vice-versa, and you find that same inability, creeps into your music,(which it does), I can 'oblige' you...ain't that what friends are for, anyway??

As far as the TEA Party, they are either a 'legitimate' grass roots deal, or a 'concocted' grass roots deal, or even a 'co-opted' grass roots deal, the FACT is, it's APPEAL was to all those who are dissatisfied by the way politics has fucked up the lives of a lot of people, and they are terrified at what they see. They are made up of a whole lot of people, formerly FROM BOTH SIDES.....( maybe you should have titled the thread, "The Tea Party a TERRIFIED Organization??
They are a RE-ACTION, to OBVIOUS abuses of power and trust of the American people defecting from Both parties...and especially to the Democrats, of this administration, and voted that way, in which the DEMS LOST Congress...by a landslide!!..Now that is pretty factual....I AM NOT A TEA PARTIER!!.....(But I understand their people's frustration)

I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT...I found them, basing too many political blather based on shit scientifically just plain FALSE!(They are too easily emotionally controlled, among other things, too).

I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN either. I believe that they too, are working to, and for, the same guys who the Democrats are working for...and it ISN'T us!!

I think they play off each other, to give the ILLUSION that there is a problem to solve(that they created in the first place), from the other side, of course, and with each bullshit 'problem' comes a bullshit 'solution', which normally the American people on EITHER SIDE would have NEVER gone for originally!!....LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE!!..as a result of this bullshit....and you're going to tell me that your side of the bullshit that you support, is better, or 'less corrupt' than your counterparts??? THIS, is what you want people to swallow???

Being NOT a political animal, I DON'T HAVE A POLITICAL AGENDA!!..although, I certainly would promote people to demand honesty, from our elected officials...(which seems to be in it's own economic crisis as well)!..but first find honesty in themselves....and let THAT guide their reality!...regardless of what is politically popular! That shit changes faster than a chameleon flying over a double rainbow!...and the 'news' media explains it all away, and keeps us calm enough to 'just' have these 'controlled differences'!!

I AM COMPLETELY UNAFFILIATED WITH ANY PARTY!!!..(You'd think Don would appreciate that). Too me, the 'political imperialism' which is gripping the country, seems to have too many dulling effects on the senses, that are more important, and require more discipline to maintain..but the 'payoff' is priceless! ...and if you are REALLY serious about what you express, through your ax, the rising above 'concocted political problems', and 'other' impediments to people moving into their rightful fulness, should be a Delight, and Joy!

Don't let your 'friends', nor 'political beliefs' be an anchor to
your mediocrity!

Now, did that hurt??
Care to comment....after the other over-due comments..or before??

Warmest Regards,

Guest from Sanity

There!

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27 Jun 11 - 02:55 PM (#3177295)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Now HERE"S an example of an 10 year old girl, paying attention to the finest details, and what she is doing...WITHOUT political crap on her mind!!!

Well, you always DID like my music links.....

Just 'Exchanging'!

GfS

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27 Jun 11 - 05:21 PM (#3177380)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

11 years old, actually, at the time of the taping of this concert (presented on PBS's "Great Performances" a week or so ago). I worry a bit about Jackie Evancho. She has an extraordinary singing voice, and as I understand it, she went to a production of "Phantom of the Opera" at the age of eight, got really turned on to singing, and came out with this BIG, mature sounding voice. And she loves to sing.

But many a talented young singer has been launched into a professional concert career MUCH too soon, when they should be nurturing and gently training their voice and not trying to push it into areas beyond it's capabilities before it's mature enough to handle it.

Operatic arias, such as O mio babbino caro from Puccini's comic opera "Gianni Schicchi" (with which she shot into prominence) is a fairly easy aria and well within her capabilities, but something like Nessun Dorma from Puccini's "Turandot" is totally inappropriate for her voice on a couple of counts. First, it was written for a tenor (the part of Calàf in the opera), and second, it is not a very easy aria to sing, even for a full-voiced tenor (signature piece for Luciano Pavarotti). I did notice, however, that she sang a much abbreviated version of it.

I am especially dubious about David Foster, the record producer and promoter who seems to be "masterminding" her singing career—and choosing her repertoire (such as Nessun Dorma, not because it suits Jackie's voice, but because it's one lots of people, including non-opera fans, are familiar with).

I dunno. . . .   She's got a great career ahead of her if she doesn't blow her voice out early. That's happened to too many talented young singers.

But—

Back to our regular broadcast.

"I found them [Democrats], basing too many political blather based on shit scientifically just plain FALSE"

Uh—do you ever proof-read what you write, GfS?

GfS, it is possible to have a cohesive and integrated political philosophy without belonging to a political party. But it is much more common for people to know so little about politics, or the history of the country (you, know:   we tried that before and it either did or did not work), that all they can do is make their political choices (who and what to vote for) on a strictly emotional level, engendered by the lazy habit of listening to television rabble-rousers.

Another common mistake is to think that when one has voted, one's political duties are over. A famous President, when presented with a docket of actions that a number of people felt he should make to put the country on a more stable course, said, "I agree with you. Now, MAKE me do it!"

If you don't like what Obama is doing, or feel that he is not living up to his campaign promises, don't just sit there and bitch! Write! Telephone! Sign petitions! Talk to people! Simply pissing and moaning on this web site may make you feel like the Westbrook Pegler of Mudcat, but it doesn't do a damned bit of good. LEAN on him. Let him know what you want him to do! MAKE him do it!

(Gutless wonders!!)

As to Ayn Rand and her adoption by the Tea Party:

pdq uses a typical "framing" tactic in an attempt to draw question to anything I say by dubbing me "Propaganda Minister."   Then he proceeds to make false statements about what I believe.

A transparent debating tactic, pdq, and a cheap shot. That sort of thing merely indicates that you are aware of the weakness of your own position.

pdq's screed was in answer to a post I made on another thread to which I linked. If anyone is getting in on this late, here it is again:   CLICKY.

From pdq a few posts above:   "One thing that gives Ayn Rand depth is that she lived in Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution and her father's family business was seized (along with the building, which the family also owned) and their property was given to Red's loyal friends. Rand's family was left impoverished and fled to another city in fear for their lives. She new exctly what can happen when a government has unlimited power."

Rather than giving Ayn Rand (Alissa Rosenbaum) depth and understanding, this traumatic uprooting during her childhood marked her indelibly for the rest of her life, leaving her personality with an underlying theme of anger and resentment. She had a very dominating personality, ruled the people in her inner circle with an iron hand, brooked absolutely no question. Discussion with her was impossible. You sat at her feet and she made pronouncements. And she was totally devoid of humor. This I get from people who knew her personally.

The following is a very good article, a book review of a recently publish biography of Ayn Rand. It's a little over 2,000 words, but well worth a read.

Ayn Rand.

Good insights into the nature of the Patron Saint of the Tea Party.

Don Firth

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27 Jun 11 - 06:04 PM (#3177396)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I agree with you about Evancho, and Foster...something about him is sooo 'wrong'. He seems to 'glomm' onto new talent, and screws them up, while trying to get the credit due the artist...as if he created their careers, and it was all due to him..not the God-given talents they already had!!....(sounds like 'far left' type of guy..huh?) You know, like the government is the one that gives us life, and equality, and tells US what we are 'entitled' to, or not!..who can have it..who can't...as long as they tax your existence, you can do about anything they'll allow you to do.....but don't forget to stay so busy, dealing with THEIR reality, that you won't spend time in your own, developing higher responsibility, for those things, that in reality, has more power and influence than they do..(Shhhhh, don't tell anyone!..)

Jeez! I wasn't going to go there...but, nonetheless its still a good analogy!

Now, what was I supposed to answer?....

GfS

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27 Jun 11 - 06:40 PM (#3177413)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh, and no disagreement with your other stuff..to a point, that is.
I agree with you on Ayn Rand...in fact, reading Rand should never be confused with adopting her rap. Dr. Seuss should be taken more seriously!

Now to your point about, "But it is much more common for people to know so little about politics, or the history of the country (you, know:   we tried that before and it either did or did not work), that all they can do is make their political choices (who and what to vote for) on a strictly emotional level, engendered by the lazy habit of listening to television rabble-rousers."

What if their 'philosophical' views are limited by their political parameters, of reality? Don't you think that once you have to step outside that politically created reality, isn't it time to take notice?...once you find out that the politically correct reality, doesn't even come close to the vastness of the human 'experience'? in fact, quite limiting?..you know, "and come running for the shelter, of your mother's 'little helper'"(the 'nanny' state?)....especially a 'Nanny State' that IGNORES its Constitutional duties, then goes on to fuck with everything under the sun, EXCEPT what they are supposed to be doing? Do you believe that we, as citizens are as much protected, and looked out for, as say, the interests of the mega-corps, whose only concern, in regards to us, is how much they can squeeze us for everything to facilitate them???....and then go on a lying campaign to sell us that it is our 'Rights' to have us 'forced' to be their subjects??...for THEIR ENHANCED PROFITS??...Uh-uh!!
..and yes, I do know my history, and political history, as well....maybe not all the ones you cherry pick, and hold close to your bosom....but then, that's your trip....and it's OK..just as long as political 'wills' don't intrude on the individual's rights....which, basically,is what politics is about..and attempting to make it look 'palatable'.
Sorry..not interested in joining the 'enthusiastic lemming society'! Nor am I interested in subscribing to false premises, just to accommodate a political notion...AND....I can do that, without being a threat to the lemmings, can't I??..or not?? Does someone who doesn't buy their lies, really become a threat to them??...Maybe, yes...regardless of NO attempt to do so!
If we don't agree, find the truth. If the truth opens one's eyes, let's not be so accustomed to being blind, that the light hurts our eyes, for a moment, so we'd rather stay blind!!?!

Ooops. gotta be somewhere...see ya'..
Waves..

GfS

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27 Jun 11 - 06:43 PM (#3177415)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

Propaganda Minister Firth gives a link to a character assassination hit piece aimed at Ayn Rand. It was produced by a slick-paged NY magazine known to put forth only Left-wing opinion. Even the picture in most un-flattering.

I doubt that the Hemingway or Fitzgerald could be considered perfect people either, so by The Firth Standard, both of them trashed also.

The Tea Party is composed almost completely blue collar working people. White and Christian, for the most part, but many of them see the current administration as hostile to them while taking more and more of their wealth and freedom. They are the heart and soul of this country and they feel they now have very little say about the policies of our Federal government.

I really doubt that more than 1% of Tea Party followers have ever heard of Ms. Rand.

---

27 Jun 11 - 06:56 PM (#3177420)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

From pdq: As long as the absolutely asinine title of this thread, and its basic assumptions, are allowed to stand, "anything goes" as far as posting since nobody can match such stupidity.

You seem to have missed a big part of the thread, the part where many of us were talking about a combination of racial slurs and guns starting to sound like the 60s in the deep south. If I hear a group calling black folks foul names and showing up at town hall meetings with guns, I start thinking about terrorism. Don't you? What else should I call it?

Sorry, but calling something stupid doesn't make it so, especially if you don't support your statements or make responses to people who post rebuttals of your positions.

So . . . do you want to have a real conversation or should we just write you off as a waste of time?

---

27 Jun 11 - 06:58 PM (#3177421)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: frogprince

"I really doubt that more than 1% of Tea Party followers have ever heard of Ms. Rand."
That may be just about precisely true, and if it is:

1.It indicates that 99% of the Tea Party constituency are markedly less politically and philosophically literate than the average adult American.
2. It indicates that that same constituency have no grasp of where the political ideaologies they are stumping for come from.

---

27 Jun 11 - 08:52 PM (#3177490)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, first of all, thanks GfinS fir the music... Unfortunately, my computer ain't in the mood to play anything... And I don't have enough hours in the day to mess with it... I mean, as if my messin' with it would make it work???

Secondly, GfinS, while you may think that you are so "classless and free" you are aligning yourself with the radical and emotional right of the Republican Party with the Tea Party... That is what it is.. No real arguments there among people who understand political movements... It is the Republican equivalent of the Dixiecrats back in the late 40s... Same folks... Same, "Both parties suck"... Same, same, same... Now you buddy, Sawz, doesn't believe the Dixiecrats ever existed because his computer is so stacked with right winged garbage that when he tries to do a search all he gets is right winged garbage... Maybe you didn't realize that that is the way computer do these days but they do...

As for Ayn Rand??? As I have eluded to John Galt in "Atlas Shrugged" is Mel Gibson in "Mad Max, After the Thunderdome"... Maybe the Republican Party would like to see Americans knee deep in pig poo (and they probably would love it) most Americans don't want to be knee deep in pig poo...

That's why the Tea Party and it's Mother Ship have completely blow any chances of winning any more big elections... The American people are on to their vision... And that vision has nothing to do with:

1. Freedom
2. Getting one's country back
3. Getting government out of our lives...

Nope, it isn't about that... It is 100% about what the Koch Brothers (major polluters) and Dick Armey's Freedom Works (health insurance companies) want which is letting the corporations run roughshod over the working class and keeping the redistribution of wealth going upward...

That's the real story here... The rest is mindless BS that the Koch Bros and Armey stick in ya'll's thoughtless little heads...

B~

---

27 Jun 11 - 08:53 PM (#3177491)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

And 900, to boot...

B~

---

27 Jun 11 - 09:08 PM (#3177498)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

"Propaganda Minister Firth gives a link to a character assassination hit piece aimed at Ayn Rand."

pdq, I KNEW you were going to respond with something like that. Believe me, if I'd wanted to find a "character assassination hit piece," there were some really fierce ones out there I could have chosen. I picked this one because it gave the facts (ouch!) about her background, and it was a FAIR and—may I use the word?—OBJECTIVE article on Ayn Rand and her ideas.

You wouldn't be happy with anything less than a glowing article written by one of her most dedicated disciples.

Well, those are pretty hard come by these days. While she was alive, she managed, one by one and in groups, to alienate the various members of her "inner circle." One main bone of contention was that she always counseled them that they should think for themselves. But whenever they did and it didn't necessarily agree with what she thought, she wouldn't discuss it. She would start screaming insults at them (not unlike some of the folks here on this thread). If they held the line, she "repudiated" them and put an article in the Objectivist Magazine to that effect.

Proof? Right on my bookshelf, along with the other books by and about Ayn Rand, I have a complete run of first the Objectivist Newsletter, then the Objectivist Magazine. Complete list of the people she "repudiated."

Why, for example, did she "repudiate" and excommunicate Nathaniel Brandon? He was married, but she insisted that Barbara Brandon step aside so she (Rand) could have an affair with her husband Nathanial. He wimped out and agreed to the arrangement (it ended his marriage; Barbara was not exactly a shrinking violet), then after some years, Nathanial met and fell in love with a young woman.   Rand found out about it. Hissing like a cat, she wrote a really vicious article in the Objectivist about what a turncoat and hypocrite Brandon was, accusing him of every kind of betrayal possible (but not itemizing or explaining what those "betrayals" were). Branden subsequently sent a letter to all the subscribers of the magazine, explaining that he "could no longer participate in an affair with a woman whom, although I admire her mind, I do not love her, and who is twenty-five years my senior."

One thing I insist on is that anyone who tries to tell me how I should live my life, and what I should believe, should, at the very least, follow their own precepts. Hypocrisy is not acceptable.

By the way, pdq, if so few Tea Party members have ever heard of Ayn Rand, why is it that they quote her all the time? Eh?

You really ARE a faithful little disciple, aren't you? I've run into this kind of vitriol before. I recognize its source.

Don Firth

---

27 Jun 11 - 09:30 PM (#3177507)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The Tea Party folks are quoting her because the Koch brothers and Dick Armey are injecting Rand into the Tea Party... I'd bet you that 99% of the Tea Party folks never heard of her until the last year...

Actually, lots of folks who aren't Tea Party puppets probably hadn't heard of Ayn Rand either...

But the next move for the Koch/Armey folks is to try to do what rich people have tried to do for 60 years and that is us "Starve the beast" to kill the "New Deal"... The Tea Partiers are just pawns in a gme they have absolutely no understanding and in the end will hurt them and their children... Much like Hitler used the "brown shirts"... Ignorant pawns... Nothing more, nothing less...

I feel sorry for the folks here in Mudburg who have become ignorant pawns of people who couldn't give a flying fuck about them... This is a much larger game that is so far over the Tea Partiers heads that it is pathetic...

"Oh, gee, Ralph... How did all this occur???"

It occurred be cause stupid people were, ahhhhh, stupid... That how Hitler came to power and that is the same game plan for the Koch brothers, Rupert Muldock & Dick Armey...

They have one mission and one mission only: Kill the New Deal!!! No other mission is on their plate!!!

B~

---

27 Jun 11 - 09:32 PM (#3177510)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Here, pdq.

If you have the guts for it, here is an article written by quite probably the one human being who knew her and her philosophy better than anyone else on earth.

CLICK

Pour yourself a cup of coffee and put your feet up before you start. It runs about 11,000 words.

Don Firth

---

27 Jun 11 - 11:32 PM (#3177550)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Secondly, GfinS, while you may think that you are so "classless and free" you are aligning yourself with the radical and emotional right of the Republican Party with the Tea Party..."

Actually, I just understand their feelings, as well as those from the 'far left'. Everybody has their valid points..everybody!...It is the lack of understanding, that the 'manipulators' from all sides, are counting on to keep us divided, while those 'bullshit solutions' are foisted upon us!...and in the end, final analysis, EVERYBODY gets cheated...EXCEPT the 'manipulators'....who are more in agreement with each other, than the blind-sided, unwittingly deceived, 'true believers'....who, though their hearts are divided, against each other, are generally well intentioned folks....just deceived....so they fight..like on here...
What happens is they put their agendas ahead of the fact, that America has been, and could still be a kick-ass country, like no other! All the sides, were NOT the reason the nation grew, nor could they be the reason a nation could develop, as ours did...but they ALL want to steer it into their 'corners', if you will, and they all share an agenda which to accomplish their goals, require the stripping away of our liberties and freedoms to facilitate their manipulators!....including the 'far left'..as well as the 'far right', and the offshoots of both of them. The key is, instead of finding fault in each OTHERS eyes, why not make those same adjustments on YOUR side of the street, and where you find error, stop making excuses for them, and acknowledge them, and back away, where you find manipulations, half truths, and out front lies!
Hey, if someone wants to gain control of me, by lying to me, FUCK THEM, and the horse they rode in on. If I blindly buy into it, 'for the party's sake', well, fuck me! ..........
I got too much real creating to do, to give any of them any serious part of my mind, and those whose lies are just too out front to ignore, I just 'throw them the crazy', and usually, those who promote their bullshit....no matter which party, or faction, at that particular time!
As it stands now, ALL of them, and ALL their 'final' solutions defy gravity, in their long-winded, falsely 'astute', sloppily slapped together rationalizations.
I'd rather compose stuff that grabs the heart, BEFORE the place where is gets cluttered, with political nonsense!...and speak to us there!!
This is the part that needs to be built up...so if anyone is going to save their asses, their ass better be worth 'saving'!!

Oh well...nice to hear back from you, in a more cohesive tone.....

Regards,
GfS

---

28 Jun 11 - 01:12 PM (#3177857)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don Firth: ".....but something like Nessun Dorma from Puccini's "Turandot" is totally inappropriate for her voice on a couple of counts. First, it was written for a tenor (the part of Calàf in the opera), and second, it is not a very easy aria to sing, even for a full-voiced tenor (signature piece for Luciano Pavarotti). I did notice, however, that she sang a much abbreviated version of it."

Personally, I thought her performance of 'Nessun Dorma' was not only phenomenal, it was a downright 'historic'!! Did you notice the expression on her face, after completing the last note??!!..Somewhere between ecstatic, and emotional, as if she just had just had the best EMOTIONALLY orgasmic sex of a lifetime and gave birth..all at the same time!...and offered it to her beloved! (Now I know she is a minor, and nothing more should be read into my prior statement, other than the 'emotional' part..and how she gave it her all!
That being said, I know Pavarotti had this piece as his signature piece, even did a movie about it('Yes Giorgio!')...and i loved when he sang it....BUT THAT performance that Jackie did, grabbed me far more than Luciano's. I've listened to it several times since recording it off the PBS special, on our large flat screen, as late as yesterday...and holy shit, I get choked up toward the final notes!! Jackie is just plain GIFTED, and like you, I really hope she does not get exploited, abused or messed with...or fall into the crap Charlotte Church fell into.
I'd be interested in your thoughts about her performance, if you'd care to share more of them...as much as we go 'round and round', I would appreciate YOUR thoughts in regard to this. I had several, that I thought about, that may be of interest....or at least a thoughtful exchange with you!


Bobert, The tone of your last posts were getting easier to put up with and digest....don't forget to comment on the posts that Sawzaw wanted you to comment on, as with mine.

Regards,
GfS

---

28 Jun 11 - 02:43 PM (#3177887)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yo, GfinS...

It's one thing to understand what people are feeling and quite another to support policies which will hurt the country... Sure, the Tea Party folks are scared and pissed off... Fine... Those are legitimate feelings that lots of folks have left, right and in between...

However, when these scared and pissed off Tea Baggers are organized into a big mob to threaten people, to thwart dialogue, to not be willing to compromise and to carry out the wishes of their masters (Koch brothers, Dick Armey, Freedom Works, Fox, health insurance lobby, etc) without so much as an ounce of respect or understanding for those not "like" them, I have a big problem... And so does the country...

There is a reason there are no black faces at the Tea Party rallies... There is a reason there are no Democrats... This mob is not inclusive at all... They are intolerant... They are like Taliban-Lite except when they get carried away and put on their thug hats...

The worst part of this is that the folks who pull the strings of the Tea Party purdy much fly under the radar... They have spent hundreds of million$$$ hiring "community organizer", paying rent in office, furnishing buses and literature, etc. and what they have is a lynch mob ready and willing to shout you or me down over any policy that the masters want done away with... In other words: dupes!!! Yes, the Tea Party folks are complete dupes... They are working against their own interests and don't even have a clue what they are doing...

What we need in this country is the ***truth***... What we get are lies, lies and more lies... If people are given the truth about a policy then they tend to show their intelligent side... When people are fed horse manure they show their moron side... Right now the Tea Party is being fed 100% USDA Choice horse manure by their masters...

As for Sawz, GfinS... Nah, I don't need to address him or read his horse manure... He is a rude person, a cyber stalker and has a severe personality disorder... He is also not honest... The Bible syas there are people like that and tells us to "shake the dust from our robes"... I tried a long time with Sawz and the various people/handles he has been over the years and he is not worth my time... I don't write people off easily but once I do, it's done...

B~

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28 Jun 11 - 07:38 PM (#3178013)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Temporary recess from throwing chairs at each other for a little discussion of things musical. I know it's thread drift, but if anyone objects, they can always write their congressional representative, which you should be doing as a matter of course anyway.

####

GfS, I agree that Jackie Evancho's singing of Nessun Dorma was excellent. But—

Well, let's put it this way. I've been an opera bug since I was in my mid-teens. I have several full length operas on records that I bought back then, and more [CDs] that I've bought recently—and my wife and I have bought season tickets to Seattle Opera (Seattle Opera is supposed to be the fourth largest opera company in the country) since we got married 34 years ago.

There is nothing inconsistent about liking opera and singing traditional folk songs and ballads, as some might think. When some folkie comments on the nutty plots of some operas, my response is, "Take a look at some of the nutty plots in the ballads!" In my view, a ballad is like a mini-opera. And an opera is like a ballad on steroids. No inconsistency there at all!

I can't help but associate the arias with the characters in the opera who sing them. For example, the well-known aria, La donna è mobile, from the final act of Verdi's "Rigoletto" is sung by the lecherous young Duke of Mantua (tenor), trying to seduce Maddalena, the innkeeper's sister, after having had his way with Gilda. the daughter of Rigoletto, his hunchbacked jester, in the previous act. To hear a woman sing that ("Women are fickle!") along with the rest of the lyrics generally denigrating women, would just be kinda weird.

In "Turandot" (taken from an old Persian legend), the title character is the Empress of China. She is obligated to marry and produce an heir, but due to something ghastly that a man did to one of her female ancestors, she has vowed never to have anything to do with men. She has set up a test:   any man who comes a-courtin' must answer three riddles. If he answers them, she will marry him. If he fails, she has his head lopped off, put on a pike, and left there for all to see. Quite a deterrent! But she is very beautiful, and also, she IS the empress, and a measure of power goes with being the prince-consort, so guys keep sticking their necks out, so to speak. She's got quite a collection of heads outside her residence, the Forbidden City.

Calàf, a young traveler (actually, the Prince of Persia) sees her and falls madly in love. He rings the gong. She lays the three riddles on him, and to her horror, he answers them correctly! She's aghast! But she can't help but notice that he is kind of a hunk, so things could be worse. Neverthless, she's so upset that Calàf offers her an out:   a riddle of his own. If she can learn his name before the following sunrise, he'll let her out of the deal and go quietly to the headsman.

So on the Empress's orders, the whole palace, all the servants, soldiers, everyone, is up and scurrying about all night, asking people, even torturing people, trying to find out who this young upstart suitor is. With all this running around and general activity in the wee small hours of the morning, Calàf is himself awake and watching. This is when he sings the aria, Nessun Dorma. Rough translation from Italian to English:

No one shall sleep! No one shall sleep!
Even you, o, Princess, in your cold room,
Are watching the stars that tremble with love and with hope.
But my secret is hidden within me,
My name no one shall know. . . .
No one. . . .   No one. . . .
I will reveal it only when the sun rises.
My kiss will dissolve the silence and I will make you mine!
Vanish, o night! Go down, stars! Go down!
At dawn, I shall win!
I shall win! I shall win!

Here's the aria in context, sung by Franco Corelli, a handsome young tenor from a few decades back, in a live performance from the stage of the Metropolitan Opera:   Fasten your seat belt!

Now, musically and vocally, Jackie did a very nice job of singing the aria, and she really got into it, which, I think, is the mark of real talent and real promise. But considering the number of soprano arias there are that she could sing just as well, and which would be thoroughly appropriate to a young woman's singing voice, Nessun Dorma was a really weird choice.

On the "Great Performances" broadcast, David Foster indicated that he was "helping" Jackie pick her repertoire, and as I mentioned earlier, I'm sure he chose Nessun Dorma, not because it would show off Jackie's voice to advantage, but because—due to Pavarotti's doing it at the drop of a hat over the last couple of decades—the aria is well known. But—what it's actually all about is not, except to someone who is either familiar with the opera it comes from, or who can understand Italian.

I can think of a couple of fairly well-known arias that Jackie could try on for size if she were so inclined. One is
Ebben? Ne andrò lontana (please excuse the brief but intrusive commercial at the start) from an obscure opera called "La Wally" by Alfredo Catalani. After many trials and tribulations, the heroine and her lover decide to leave their home village, and it all ends rather badly. They're killed in an avalanche. The aria is well-known, in that it was dug out of obscurity and featured in the French movie "Diva" (1981), that played in art theaters in the U. S. and a number of times on television. Although, to my knowledge, the opera is rarely if ever done anymore, but since the movie, many sopranos have picked it up as a concert or recital piece.

Another that is pretty well known these days is Song to the Moon from Dvorak's "Rusalka." A "rusalka" is a water sprite, and this particular one is in love with the local Handsome Prince (strange how they rarely seem to fall in love with the local ugly garbage collector!). She can only come out of the water at night, and he, of course, has no gills. Nor does he even know of her existence. So she is invoking the power of the moon to somehow intercede for her. The opera is based on a Slavic legend or folk tale, and it may be the story that Hans Christian Andersen based his well-known fairy tale, "The Little Mermaid" on.

Renée Fleming (the young lady on the videos I linked to) was absolutely furious at Disney Studios for prettying the story up and giving it a happy ending. It's supposed to be a real tear-jerker!

Anyhow—

I think these two arias are ones that Jackie could do quite well with. That is, if her young voice can handle their vocal demands without pushing it beyond where it should go at this stage of her development. But that would be for her voice teacher, NOT David Foster, to decide.

And, of course, if they are songs she might want to sing.

####

Okay folks, musical interlude over for now. Back to the usual insults, put-downs, nastiness, and displays of total lack of civility and the ability to reason, and generally behaving with the collective intelligence of a school of excitable piranhas.

Don Firth

---

28 Jun 11 - 10:30 PM (#3178056)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Danged!!! Went to a music website and a discussion on, ahhhhhh...

...music broke out!!!

Fact is stranger than fiction...

B~

---

29 Jun 11 - 02:38 AM (#3178103)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Yeah, well, Bobert, things like that just happen!!........(Praise God!)

Don, Thank you for your wonderful response!!! Time constraints, right now, from adequately responding back with all my thoughts, as I read your post..and BOY!..Did some thoughts get triggered!!!..so allow me to better respond tomorrow.

I can say, in this brief moment, that from the 'what it's worth department..., For about two years, every school day, on the way to taking the kids to school, I had breakfast with Giorgio Tozzi and his wife Marti. Tozzi is world renown as being in the 'top drawer' of basso/baritones, in the world...and his stellar performance role in 'Faust'. He and his wife were the vocal coaches for,(among others) Neil Diamond, Robert Plant, Barbra Streisand and Frank Sinatra. He also did the voice-over, for the Rogers and Hammerstein's film 'South Pacific', and has toured quite a bit with Howard Keel and Richard Kiley..plus a lot more stuff. During that time, he was the official host to the The Royal Opera from London's Covent Garden, when they visited Los Angeles. I believe, at this time he is living near Scottsdale, Arizona. When we knew him, he and his wife were living in Malibu, California, as was our family. We have since moved.

OK, for now...I'll get back to you...and I've got a 'dilly' of a question for ya'!

Regards!

GfS

P.S. ....and all of 'Mudcat' are rubbing their eyes in astounding surprise bewilderment!......Don and GfS????
Yes folks, gravity is just a rumor!!

---

29 Jun 11 - 09:08 AM (#3178272)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Group linked to billionaire Koch brothers seeks end to New York role in greenhouse gas curb

Group linked to oilmen billionaires sues state to pull out of program

By BRIAN NEARING Staff writer, Wednesday, June 29, 2011

ALBANY -- A group tied to conservative Kansas petrochemical billionaires who fund campaigns to deny man-made climate change is pushing a lawsuit to kill New York's participation in a program to cut greenhouse gases.

The lawsuit seeks to bounce New York out of the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, a 10-state program applied to electric power plants in the Northeast. Filed Monday in state Supreme Court in Albany County, the suit's lead plaintiff is Lisa Thrun, a Buffalo leader of Americans for Prosperity, a conservative political action group supported by oilmen David and Charles Koch that is linked to the tea party movement.

RGGI is the nation's first state-level greenhouse gas cap-and-trade program, in which power plants must buy enough state-issued permits to cover emissions of carbon dioxide, which an international scientific consensus blames as the cause of man-made climate change....

Read more:
http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Group-linked-to-billionaire-Koch-brothers-seeks-1445005.php

---

29 Jun 11 - 02:35 PM (#3178470)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Profile of racist bigots:

Subject: RE: Minority Ignorance
From: Bobert - PM
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:40 PM

First of all, I do find the term Negro offensive and patronizing.

With that said, I too am concerned about the continued variance on educational and emplyment between blacks and whites.

I believe a national discussion on "race" is long overdue and America very much needs to not dance around *slavery*. Slavery still haunts our society some 140 years after the Emancipation Procamation. We also need to refocus resources that will provide hope to the inner city population, black and white. We are not doing a very good job on the. I remember when the "summer jobs" program was funded somewhat adaqutely and it had a level of success. We also need to spend oney on a PR program that offers some alternatives to the "cool" to be either *less cool* or *more cool* depending of ones defination.

I think that people who feel disenfranchised are not going to walk the extra mile for acceptance. I'm not say that some won't but the most won't.

Unfortuately, we're not going to move on creating a more hopeful society under the current administration. Not that the last one was all that great, but it was way beyond the current administration.

Bobert

From: Bobert - PM
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 09:12 PM

I don't consider Condi a "token Negro" but very much a "house Negro"

I consider Condi squarely in the "house Negro" category. No racism here [writes himself a pass]... Just fact [another Bobert "fact"]... Condi Rice would be no safer in some of the nieghborhoods I know down in D.C. than Bush, Boss Hog or George Wallace, fir that matter... [does this mean the people in those areas are violent racists?]

Bobert

From: Bobert - PM
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 08:28 AM

In a world dominiated by *white guys* it's highly unlikely that a person of color will ever rise to power. Whitey [a pejorative] jus' has the deck stacked against that ever occuring. Oh sure, he'll promote lots of folks to the position of "House Negro" but you can be sure that these folks won't get any higher than that position, Condi being Exhibit A...

Bobert

From: Bobert - PM
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 06:58 PM

First of all, Dougie, I know my way around a dojo, so neither House Negro Condi of House Negro Colin scare me in the slightest. If either or both of 'um make a move toward me you'll be helping them up off the floor.[physical threat] No brag. Just fact.

Secondly, if they were standing right here, right now in front of me, yeah, I'd confront 'um. They are House Negros. Study a little "History of the South". I took it in college. And that was in Richmond, Va., the capitol of the Confederacy. C & C are very much House Negros in that they do the massa's bidding... They are not folks in power but probably less powerful than the average guy on the street since they have both sold out to whitey [a pejorative]...

That's what House Negros do...

Sell out...

Problem I have with Clarence Thomas isn't that he's trying to get along but with whom...

His decisions are not world view decisions... They are, excuse me, "Uncle Tom" decisons... He is, IMO, what was once know as a "Porch (house) Negro"

Well danged, pdc, shes a lot easier on the eyes than the other porch negro, Colin

Princeton wordnet: whitey, honky, honkey, honkie ((slang) offensive names for a White man)

[PM] Sawzaw         BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration (2556* d)         RE: Popular Views: the Obama Administration         07 Jan 09

    Al Qaeda Plays the Malcolm Card
    By Salim Muwakkil

    When media reports emerged that al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, disparaged President-elect Barack Hussein Obama as a "house negro," it angered many in the black community. However, it also struck a chord.

    The Egyptian physician who is reportedly Osama bin Laden's confidant actually used the phrase "house slave," but it was later translated as "house negro."

    Al-Zawahiri said, "You [Obama] represent the direct opposite of honorable black Americans like Malik al-Shabazz or Malcolm X," who "condemned the crimes of the Crusader West against the weak and oppressed, and he declared his support for peoples resisting American occupation."

    The al Qaeda leader said Obama, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice "confirmed" Malcolm X's definition of a "house slave." He was referring to Malcolm X's distinction between slave-era "house Negroes," who lived comfortably in the big house abetting white supremacy, and "field negroes," who toiled in the fields under the whip, plotting resistance.

---

29 Jun 11 - 03:54 PM (#3178561)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No reason trying to explain race to you, Sawz... Like I have said a thousand times: Take the body of my writings to any professor on race studies and they may have better shot at busting the concrete in your head...

BTW, I stand 100% behind everything I have written and have real life experiences to understand things are obviously beyond your intellectual grasp when it come to race, civil rights and farnkly, most everything else in the universe...

Now either take my writings to a Professor or Race Studies or shut the heck up... You are like a gnat in many respects and...

...my apologies to gnats every where...

B~

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29 Jun 11 - 05:11 PM (#3178607)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Paul Ryan leases land to Oil Companies who receive subsidies he votes to give them
29. June 2011 - 3:58

A Shocking Conflict of Interest?

When Republican Congressman Paul Ryan was asked at a town hall meeting in Waterford, WI, about the need to end subsidies to oil companies, he responded, "I agree." [1]

But just one week later, Ryan voted to give Big Oil billions in taxpayer-funded handouts. [2]

Now comes the shocking revelation that Congressman Ryan and his family are making thousands of dollars from oil companies that lease their land companies that stand to benefit from the same tax breaks Ryan is pushing.

"Newsweek" and the "Daily Beast" reported recently on what appears to be Ryan's shocking conflict of interest:

"The financial disclosure report Ryan filed with Congress last month and made public this week shows he and his wife, Janna, own stakes in four family companies that lease land in Texas and Oklahoma to the very energy companies that benefit from the tax subsidies in Ryan's budget plan.

"Ryan's father-in-law, Daniel Little, who runs the companies, told Newsweek and The Daily Beast that the family companies are currently leasing the land for mining and drilling to energy giants such as Chesapeake Energy, Devon, and XTO Energy, a recently acquired subsidiary of ExxonMobil.

"Some of these firms would be eligible for portions of the $45 billion in energy tax breaks and subsidies over 10 years protected in the Wisconsin lawmaker's proposed budget." [3]

Not only has Ryan voted to give Big Oil companies like ExxonMobil billions in government handouts, but as the article notes he has also proposed a 2012 budget that also gives Big Oil billions in special tax breaks. [4] And as the point person on the budget for the Republican House leadership, Ryan has significant sway and influence on the congressional budget process.

At a time when middle-class families are feeling the pinch of an economy still on the rebound and state governments are facing massive budget shortfalls, Ryan is asking American taxpayers to continue providing massive government handouts for some of the world's most profitable companies all while his family stands to benefit from some of those same companies' profits.

Tell Congressman Paul Ryan that championing special tax breaks for Big Oil while profiting from the oil industry is wrong.

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29 Jun 11 - 05:35 PM (#3178624)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Jeezis, Sawz, wouldja get a new freakin' hobby horse to ride?

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29 Jun 11 - 05:36 PM (#3178625)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

But perhaps there should have been one more corporate catagory. Corporation pays lobbyist hundreds of thousands to funnel millions, to petition politician to rezone your land and 2 cows as a public park, State Governor in exchange for millions in campaign contributions sells newly acquired public land, including 2 public utilities, to corporate fat cat for $1 and other considerations.



DEMOCRAT

You have two cows.
Your neighbor has none.
You feel guilty for being successful.
You push for higher taxes so the government can provide cows for everyone.

   

REPUBLICAN

You have two cows.
Your neighbor has none.
So?

   

SOCIALIST

You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor. You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his cow.

   

COMMUNIST

You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with milk. You wait in line for hours to get it. It is expensive and sour.

   

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE

You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

   

BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE

You have two cows. Under the new farm program, the government pays you to shoot one, milk the other, and then pour the milk down the drain.

   

AMERICAN CORPORATION

You have two cows. You sell one, lease it back to yourself and do an IPO on the 2nd one.
You force the two cows to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when one cow drops dead.
You spin an announcement to the analysts stating you have downsized and are reducing expenses.
Your stock goes up.

   

FRENCH CORPORATION

You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows. You go to lunch and drink wine.
Life is good

   

JAPANESE CORPORATION

You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. They learn to travel on unbelievably crowded trains. Most are at the top of their class at cow school.

   

GERMAN CORPORATION

You have two cows. You engineer them so they are all blond, drink lots of beer, give excellent quality milk, and run a hundred miles an hour. Unfortunately, they also demand 13 weeks of vacation per year.

   

ITALIAN CORPORATION

You have two cows but you don't know where they are.
You break for lunch. Life is good.

   

RUSSIAN CORPORATION

You have two cows. You drink some vodka.
You count them and learn you have five cows.
You drink some more vodka. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. The Mafia shows up and takes over however many cows you really have.

   

TALIBAN CORPORATION

You have all the cows in Afghanistan , which are two. You don't milk them because you cannot touch any creature's private parts. You get a $40 million grant from the US   government to find alternatives to milk production but use the money to buy weapons.

   

IRAQI CORPORATION

You have two cows. They go into hiding.
They send radio tapes of their mooing.

   


POLISH CORPORATION

You have two bulls. Employees are regularly maimed and killed attempting to milk them.

   

BELGIAN CORPORATION

You have one cow. The cow is schizophrenic.
Sometimes the cow thinks he's French, other times he's Flemish. The Flemish cow won't share with the French cow. The French cow wants control of the Flemish cow's milk.
The cow asks permission to be cut in half. The cow dies happy.

   

FLORIDA CORPORATION

You have a black cow and a brown cow. Everyone votes for the best looking one. Some of the people who actually like the brown one best accidentally vote for the black one. Some people vote for both. Some people vote for neither. Some people can't figure out how to vote at all. Finally, a bunch of guys from out-of-state tell you which one you think is the best looking cow.

   

CALIFORNIA CORPORATION

You have millions of cows. They make real California cheese. Only five speak English. Most are illegal.
Arnold likes the ones with the big udders.

---

29 Jun 11 - 06:10 PM (#3178650)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Forget Paul Ryan fir a minute... Michelle Bachmann not only takes federal farm subsidies money but has also come up with her own BIG LIE about it... Even though the money goes into the partnership account for which she takes "draws" (money) she says that the money she takes isn't the same money that the feds give her family... Hey, it is co-mingled with other funds and that makes her statements about it very suspect...

Thanks, Greg F... Yes, Sawz does need to get another hobby horse...

B~

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29 Jun 11 - 07:07 PM (#3178687)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Take the body of my writings to any professor on race studies"

Who? where? Like I have asked a thousand times. You won't answer.

Another bluff. Another excuse for racist comments and bigotry.

You take your racist, hatefilled statements and project them on other people. You are bigoted and you will not tolerate anyone elses point of view you you try to demonize them for things you concocted.

Is that what these professors on race studies do? Blame other people for shit they said?

The guy you projected the KKK and Al Quaeda on has more in common with you than the KKK or Al Quaeda.

You tell people they have to be afraid of those Tea Party racist killers and then claim THEY are the ones spreading hate and fear.

This is a Marxist tactic known as "ritual defamation".

Perhaps the professor I need to see to approve your racist statements is in Lenningrad.

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29 Jun 11 - 07:26 PM (#3178711)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Sawzaw, calling Bobert a bigot defines how thoroughly you are willing to assign incorrect meanings to things you read. It appears that this disability affects other aspects of you intellectual life, like your understanding of politics, economy, and science. You may want to see a doctor, or apply for a disability pension.

Or you could just pay more attention . . .

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29 Jun 11 - 07:40 PM (#3178722)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

That about sums it up, John...

When I was a social worker in "adult services' in Richmond my caseload was heavily tilted toward clients with mental illnesses... And I learned more than I'd like to know about metal illnesses... There was a clinical term, "personality disorder", that kinda became the catch-all for illnesses that couldn't be better defined...

Sawz, at the very *least* has a "personality disorder"... Maybe worse than that, I donno... But, I agree that he needs some serious counseling and maybe some med for his OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder)...

It's sad...

I mean, if you look at his 2:35 post what jumps out is that Sawz is well beyond discussions... He probably has pieces of paper all over an entire wall of things I have said not only here in Mudburg but at other websites as well... This post alone would get a judge in Virgina considering a "green warrant" to have him hauled in for "evaluation" at the mental health facility...

Like I said, "It's sad" but...

...glad it ain't me...

B~

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29 Jun 11 - 08:02 PM (#3178742)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Tell us professor of race studies Bobert, are these racist statements?

"Is you their black-haired answer-mammy who be smart? Does they like how you shine their shoes, Condoleezza? Or the way you wash and park the whitey’s cars?"

"Blacks and Hispanics are 'too busy eating watermelons and tacos' to learn how to read and write."

"Kiss A Nigger Good Morning."

Or an example of Ritual Defamation?

Were these the words of a Tea partier or a redn**k racist?

A liberal or a conservative?

A democrat or a republican?

You have the podium and we are anxiously waiting for your learned response.

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29 Jun 11 - 08:18 PM (#3178750)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"You may want to see a doctor, or apply for a disability pension." Or stand up for the truth.

Bigot: a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race.

Now please show me where Bobert has shown any understanding or tolerance toward anyone who has a different opinion? He calls them ignorant, mentally ill, evil, they don't understand what he said, liars. Does A real intellectual person make personal attacks instead of supporting their assertions with any facts.

I understand Bobert's position. He is a product of his environment. He can have any opinion he wants. What I object to is his constant false claims about other people's position including mine.

He hates him. They want to kill so and so. I can determine such things on my own and I don't need a self righteous racist stoner 'shine guzzler drumming up racist ideas and statements and attaching them to others.

Bobert keeps claiming racism is so prevalent and it is getting worse etc. yet he is the one promoting it. If it is getting worse it is because of people like him that can never get it out of their mind.

Racism will never die with racists like Bobert perpetuating it. I think he needs a new hobby horse to ride. Something else to make him feel important and better than other people. Something else to feed his ego.

Just read right here in this thread how many people have told him he is wrong. And how many have agreed.

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29 Jun 11 - 08:42 PM (#3178770)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Hey, GfinS...

My computer still don't want to play any music but keep firin' my way... I'll get a teenager to fix it soon enough and then go back and enjoy 'um all...

B~

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29 Jun 11 - 09:48 PM (#3178795)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Sawzaw, I have not followed all of this thread. It's getting more and more tedious, and my hip-waders are being repaired. But as a historical thing, I've been on Mudcat since late 1999, and Bobert arrived here about two years later. I've read a lot of his posts.

He has a colorful way of expressing himself. But I think I know him well enough to know that he is, in no way, shape, or form, a racist. In fact, he characteristically shows care and concerned for all people regardless of race or circumstances. But he does not suffer fools gladly. Nor, for that matter, do I.

Now, you often do not answer questions he puts to you (you keep accusing him of the same thing, so that's a wash), but you DO have a history of being very insulting to those who have the temerity to disagree with you. AND of trying to divert a discussion that you find a bit uncomfortable by throwing accusations.

So I put your own question back to YOU:"Does A real intellectual person make personal attacks instead of supporting their assertions with any facts.[?]"

I must confess, I have not read all of Bobert's posts. Nor do I generally read yours, because by now, I already know pretty much where you are coming from and what you are going to say—and, for that matter, where you got what you say.

But as one who has been accused often of being things I'm not or believing things I don't by people such as you (those who, when backed into a corner without a good answer, pull out the red herrings and start firing accusations), I am asking you to provide solid evidence for your accusations.

Go back and find the posts where Bobert said these things and link to them, or note the date and time when he is alleged (by you) to have said them, so that we can go to them and read them ourselves—and if he actually DID say what you say he did, we can read the context within which he said them (that can make a huge difference) and determine for ourselves whether YOU are telling the truth or if you are following your frequent practice of dodging an issue by slandering someone else.

In short, Sawzaw, put up or shut up!

Don Firth

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29 Jun 11 - 10:15 PM (#3178803)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Thank you, Don...

I have repeatedly asked Sawz to keep things in context... That is exactly why I felt that if he would run off a copy of all of my statements regarding race and take them to a real college professor who teaches "race studies" that maybe, just maybe, Sawz would actually learn what I am talking about...

Hey, Bill Clinton tried to get tghis conversation started back in '96 and America wasn't up to it... With our history and our here-and-now we owe it to ourselves to have this conversation... But I am preaching to the choir with you, Don, because you are fully aware of what I am talking about here...

Sawz??? No so... He is clueless... The problem with Sawz is that his mind closed down a long time ago and so he is stuck with a Value system that cannot be changed no matter the circumstance... In other words, he is a reactionary meaning that anything new is the enemy that must be dispatched...

When I said that it is "sad" I meant it from the depths of my heart... It is sad when ever people kick their lives into nuetral, accept everything that think they know as the "truth" and are unwilling to learn new stuff...

Paul Simon got it right in "Sounds of Silence" when he wrote "Sealed dead in my armor, I touch no one and no one touches me, I am a rock, I am an island"...

Very sad...

Will Sawz take you up on your proposal, Don??? No, he won't... He is an "Ah-hah-gotcha" ballgamer and my body of work here (and elsewhere) regarding race doesn't play into his ballgame and even if he were to put together my entire body of work he has so marginalized himself that no one would read it...

That's his problem... Not mine...

B~

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29 Jun 11 - 10:45 PM (#3178820)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Jeez!!

GfS

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29 Jun 11 - 10:52 PM (#3178824)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Okay, Sawz, the ball's in your court.

Don Firth

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29 Jun 11 - 11:09 PM (#3178832)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Go back and find the posts where Bobert said these things and link to them, or note the date and time when he is alleged (by you) to have said them, so that we can go to them and read them ourselves."

I already have but here it is again:

Subject: RE: Minority Ignorance
From: Bobert - PM
Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:40 PM

First of all, I do find the term Negro offensive and patronizing.

With that said, I too am concerned about the continued variance on educational and emplyment between blacks and whites.

I believe a national discussion on "race" is long overdue and America very much needs to not dance around *slavery*. Slavery still haunts our society some 140 years after the Emancipation Procamation. We also need to refocus resources that will provide hope to the inner city population, black and white. We are not doing a very good job on the. I remember when the "summer jobs" program was funded somewhat adaqutely and it had a level of success. We also need to spend oney on a PR program that offers some alternatives to the "cool" to be either *less cool* or *more cool* depending of ones defination.

I think that people who feel disenfranchised are not going to walk the extra mile for acceptance. I'm not say that some won't but the most won't.

Unfortuately, we're not going to move on creating a more hopeful society under the current administration. Not that the last one was all that great, but it was way beyond the current administration.

Bobert

From: Bobert - PM
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 09:12 PM

I don't consider Condi a "token Negro" but very much a "house Negro"

I consider Condi squarely in the "house Negro" category. No racism here [writes himself a pass]... Just fact [another Bobert "fact"]... Condi Rice would be no safer in some of the nieghborhoods I know down in D.C. than Bush, Boss Hog or George Wallace, fir that matter... [does this mean the people in those areas are violent racists?]

Bobert

From: Bobert - PM
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 08:28 AM

In a world dominiated by *white guys* it's highly unlikely that a person of color will ever rise to power. Whitey [a pejorative] jus' has the deck stacked against that ever occuring. Oh sure, he'll promote lots of folks to the position of "House Negro" but you can be sure that these folks won't get any higher than that position, Condi being Exhibit A...

Bobert

From: Bobert - PM
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 06:58 PM

First of all, Dougie, I know my way around a dojo, so neither House Negro Condi of House Negro Colin scare me in the slightest. If either or both of 'um make a move toward me you'll be helping them up off the floor.[physical threat] No brag. Just fact.

Secondly, if they were standing right here, right now in front of me, yeah, I'd confront 'um. They are House Negros. Study a little "History of the South". I took it in college. And that was in Richmond, Va., the capitol of the Confederacy. C & C are very much House Negros in that they do the massa's bidding... They are not folks in power but probably less powerful than the average guy on the street since they have both sold out to whitey [a pejorative]...

That's what House Negros do...

Sell out...

Problem I have with Clarence Thomas isn't that he's trying to get along but with whom...

His decisions are not world view decisions... They are, excuse me, "Uncle Tom" decisons... He is, IMO, what was once know as a "Porch (house) Negro"

Well danged, pdc, shes a lot easier on the eyes than the other porch negro, Colin

Princeton wordnet: whitey, honky, honkey, honkie ((slang) offensive names for a White man)

If you are refering to these:

"Is you their black-haired answer-mammy who be smart? Does they like how you shine their shoes, Condoleezza? Or the way you wash and park the whitey’s cars?"

"Blacks and Hispanics are 'too busy eating watermelons and tacos' to learn how to read and write."

"Kiss A Nigger Good Morning."

I did not attibute them to Bobert. I merely asked him to tell us if they were left or right wing racist statements.

Of course anyone with a modicum of computer savvy can go to Google and put the phrase in quotation marks and usually find out where a quote came from. Not always true with mudcat content but sometimes it works.

And while you are Googling up who said what, find out where I have ever issued a racist remark or called Bobert ignorant. I have always said we should drop all references to race so we can put racism behind us. I have always said we need to find thing we agree on so we can have a return to civility.

I have always treated Bobert with respect for his view points unless he is claiming (projecting) hateful racist viewpoints on others.

Bobert is not an evil person. He thinks he is doing something good and he has a lot of zeal but it is misguided. He promotes the very thing he claims to hate, racism and he cannot detect a fact from propaganda. Nor can he back up anything the asserts. He just makes a wicked assertion. refuses to back it up, attacks anyone that dares to ask him to back up what he says and moves on to the next assertion.

The most amusing thing is he does exactly what he is accusing other people of doing but he grants himself the right to do so.

Note that in Feb 03 Bobert makes a great humanitarian speech about how racism is wrong but by Feb 05 he is rolling in it like a hog in mud.

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29 Jun 11 - 11:10 PM (#3178833)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

http://www.2012theawakening.com/?p=1459



Oh, and Don, I still want to ask you a couple questions about your opinion on Jackie's performance of 'Nessun Dorma'. One question, would be, Do you think Puccini would disapprove or be offended, of her, or a female vocalist performing it...even after hearing that performance? Same question to you....I have written some pieces that a friend suggested the same, and I've considered it..but I wanted to know YOUR opinion.

GfS

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30 Jun 11 - 12:30 AM (#3178861)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

In true Bobert style he claims someone else's "mind closed down a long time ago and so he is stuck with a Value system that cannot be changed no matter the circumstance... In other words, he is a reactionary meaning that anything new is the enemy that must be dispatched..." when it applies exactly to him.

When has Bobert put forth any proposal on how people can come together and get along peacefully? Is that in his value system? Any solutions to racism?

Are racist statements in my value system? Is racism in my value system?

You are welcome to point it out.

I agree with the guy that said"

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam....."

Notice where it says "a profoundly distorted view of this country a view that sees white racism as endemic"

Is that my view or Bobert's view?

Amen Mr. Obama. People who keep making everything into a racial issue are the racists and bigots.

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30 Jun 11 - 03:11 AM (#3178894)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Sorry, I got the 'linky' working.....UI was going to correct it sooner..


Meanwhile, back at the ranch....................


GfS

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30 Jun 11 - 03:21 AM (#3178900)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh, and just a thought, being as the tone is who is a bigger 'racist', "One man's ceiling is another man's floor! Love for your fellow man is really quite color-blind. The degree in what level you're at, may have something to do with your 'peer environment'...If that it part of the problem, make adjustments, and move forward..taking whatever wasn't 'love for your fellow man', and just throw it away....make the correction, and thank each other for pointing that out, for each other, because it might be better to be a racist, who corrected, than stuck with denial, and arguing about it!!...besides, it is limiting as to gaining higher intelligence!!

GfS

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30 Jun 11 - 04:42 AM (#3178923)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don, Allow me to re-phrase:
Oh, and Don, I still want to ask you a couple questions about your opinion on Jackie's performance of 'Nessun Dorma'. One question, would be, Do you think Puccini would disapprove or be offended, of her, or a female vocalist performing it...even after hearing that performance? Same question to you....I have written some pieces that a friend suggested the same, and I've considered it because I write for both male and female vocalists...just that some were suggested to be sung by the other, than which it was originally created...but I wanted to know YOUR opinion.

GfS

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30 Jun 11 - 08:07 AM (#3179016)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

See???

More cherry picking by our resident screwball...

Ho hum...

B~

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30 Jun 11 - 12:30 PM (#3179135)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Ho Hum="anything new is the enemy that must be dispatched"

You are welcome to present some facts cherry picked or not if you can back them up.

I find Obama's words on racism uplifting. I find Bobert's disturbing and depressing.

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30 Jun 11 - 01:58 PM (#3179176)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "See???"

What is this?..blind leading the blind??..OR..
' Take the beam out of your own eye, before trying to remove the splinter, out of your brother's'....(You recognize that don't you?)..
Absolutely no offense intended!

Here, re-read this and consider it deeper.....

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Jun 11 - 03:21 AM

Oh, and just a thought, being as the tone is who is a bigger 'racist', "One man's ceiling is another man's floor! Love for your fellow man is really quite color-blind. The degree in what level you're at, may have something to do with your 'peer environment'...If that it part of the problem, make adjustments, and move forward..taking whatever wasn't 'love for your fellow man', and just throw it away....make the correction, and thank each other for pointing that out, for each other, because it might be better to be a racist, who corrected, than stuck with denial, and arguing about it!!...besides, it is limiting as to gaining higher intelligence!!

GfS

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30 Jun 11 - 06:04 PM (#3179329)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Sawzaw, much of what you are citing as evidence of Bobert's "racism" are his observations on the way things ARE, whether we like it or not. Some people might be offended by some of the terminology he uses (quotes), but I find it interesting that most of the people who seem to get their noses out of joint over what they perceive as "racism" are white.

Examples:   I used to sing a song called "Black Girl" (or "In the Pines") that I learned from a Lead Belly record. And I've heard other white singers sing it as well. Some, out of fear if possibly "offending" someone, have castrated the song by changing "black girl" to "little girl." I'm not inclined to do that sort of thing.

Within recent years, I've had people come up to me (wearing their PC Police badges) and display various degrees of outrage for singing a "racist" song, telling me at the very least that, as a white man, I have no right to sing that song. ALL of these people were WHITE.

I sang this song for Lynn and Rosetta, both young black women, one of whom I worked with for over eight years, and for Harold and Verlon, two black men of my acquaintance, and they told me that they found nothing offensive about the song, nor did they feel that the race of the singer made any difference whatsoever. "By all means, go ahead and sing it," Rosetta told me. "It's a very touching song."

Richard Dyer-Bennet was criticized once for singing "John Henry," saying that this was a "black song" and that he, as a white man, had no right to singing it. Dyer-Bennet responded by informing his critic that John Henry was a legendary black man, and that by singing the song, he (Dyer-Bennet) was a narrator telling the story of John Henry—and that the racial or ethnic background of the narrator is irrelevant.

I have heard Condoleezza Rice referred to as a "house Negro" (and even as a "house nigger"—and you will note, Sawzaw, that like Bobert, I am quoting, and this says nothing about MY views at all) by blacks themselves, many of whom considered her something of a sell-out.

Sawzaw, DO toss your PC Police badge in a drawer and get some perspective on the real world.

And instead of dodging the issue by going off on ad hominem attacks, try sticking to the point.

Don Firth

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30 Jun 11 - 07:51 PM (#3179381)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Listen to the WHOLE commentary . The last part was interesting..for MSNBC!

GfS

Hey Don??..No comment about the 'Nessun Dorma' post??

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30 Jun 11 - 08:50 PM (#3179411)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Again, Don hits the nail on the head...

This thread is about the terror-istic tactics of of the Tea Party... Much of what they have done or have threatened to do goes back to the KKK... It is entirely appropriate for me to talk about race because I have a perspective that I doubt anyone here in Mudburg has which includes:

1. Coming from a family that was engaged in civil rights very early... My mom's first demonstration was in 1961 and her first arrest in 1963...

2. Having a black kid brought into our family and live with us as a brother and family member...

3. Attending an inner city college with black people...

4. Organizing anti-war and civil right demonstrations in the 60s with black folks, SOC, the Black Panthers, the White Panthers (Free John Sinclair), SCLC, etc...

5. Worked one year during college for the local CAP (Community Actipon Program) as a community organizer in a black housing project...

6. After graduation from college working 3 years in an inner city drug rehab half way house and working in as a jail house GED teacher in the Richmond City jail... (Note: In both of these I was a lone white face...)

7. Working the next 14 (or so, might have been 13 or 15 years) years as a social worker working with predominately black clients...

8. During most of these years I lived with or among black folks...

9. Since then I have lived in and around mountain people, hillbillies & rednecks...

10. But also since then I have made several pilgrimages to Mississippi where I met and learned to play blues from the older black musicians and put in 7 years (every Saturday) as a regular at Archie Edwards barbershop in NE Washington D.C playing music with black blues players...

Bottom line??? All of my life's experiences have given me a perspective on race that I'd dare say few white guys my age have any idea of... Yeah, sometimes I do take shortcuts in my explanations of how things are because I think I am talkin' with folks who have some level of understanding about race, civil rights, our own history, including slavery, Jim Crow, Brown v., Plessy v., the 14th amendment, the Civil Rights Act, Dixiecrats, the Southern Strategy, nooses in high schools, ect., etc...

I lived and worked and partied and loved almost exclusively with black folks, including my brother, the late Joesph Washington who lived as part of our family for almost 30 years and when things changed there I continued my relationship with black people with with my music right up until now...

But it isn't what I have done but what I have learned and read and internalized... I mean, with very little work I could probably teach "race studies"... Maybe without any work... These are the things I have brought to Mudcat, a lily white folkie website where the single black person who ventured in ventured back out... I keep in touch with her and she knows just who I am... That is something that a lot of white folks don't get... There's a rhythm and a look that I learned way back when that is part of me... When I see black folks who I don't know (especially with the folks who remember the terrorism of Jim Crow and the KKK) and make eye contact there is a little nod (secret handshake) between us that lets us both know that we ***were there***... I wouldn't expect sawz ot too many folks here to understand what I am talking about but any professor in "race studies" could talk about it... It's a non-verbal connection that we both understand what has gone down...

This is the last post I am going to post on my past and why when I talk about race I am actually talking about the kinds of things that any "race studies" professor would be talking about... Yes, I do use language that people might find offensive... You can't teach "race studies" without stepping on some toes and offending some people... It is impossible...

Lastly, I stand behind everything I have ever written here or on any website... Taken out of context, yeah, it can be twisted much the way the right wing creep twisted Ms. Sherrod's statements about her initial reactions to trying to help white clients... That was twisted to serve a political point...

I don't care about political points... They will win you battles but won't win any wars... They are temporary... What I offer is from my soul and my history... It is of value to anyone who is willing to push aside their egos to score points and has any interest in learning things about race and civil rights that they missed along the way...

Too bad that the Tea Party has so overtly filled in where the Klan left off... It's bad for everyone... Bad for America... I can't change that... All I can do is offer my knowledge in the hopes that someone (any one) gets it...

Enough said... There won't be a repeat of this testimonial...

B~

---

01 Jul 11 - 12:04 AM (#3179500)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Gosh look what happens, DURING A COMPETITION, when these two, and you see it, begin to blow off the fact that they are competing, and just sing TOGETHER!! I saw them do it live, and it blew me away!!

remember now, only one could win..and look what happened!

GfS

---

01 Jul 11 - 03:53 AM (#3179563)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"This thread is about the terror-istic tactics of of the Tea Party"

It is about Bobert's terror tactics to try to discredit the Tea party using a person that had nothing to do with the Tea party.

Bobert was the originator of the racist comments. He was not quoting anybody. He uses racist terms and is therefore a racist.

His comments are in direct conflict with obama's comments do either Bobert id full of shit or Obama.

Which is it? I am going with Oabma. I don't always agree but I am able to to say what I agree with and what I don't agree with unlike the tribal thinking Bobert.

Bobert is too chicken shit to say Obama is wrong or to admit he is wrong. He beleives he can over ride the opinion of a black person with his own "superior" thoughts.

Right there is the proof of racisim. Democrats act as if they "own" black people because they "saved" them from slavery by opposing the Republicans when in fact they fought to keep them in slavery as long as they could in opposition to Republicans who voted in Civil rights laws and then enforded them in opposition to Democrats.

---

01 Jul 11 - 04:33 AM (#3179575)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Still not finished with that last post.

Because Democrats believe they "own" black people, they get blinded with rage when they see a black person that does not fit into the stereotype they have created for black folks, dumb, incapable of running their own life and devoted to Democrats who take care of them.

When they see a Condi or a Clarence Thomas whom they consider off the reservation, uppity negros, not following their rules for blacks, the racial slurs come out and their racism is exposed.

Right there is your institutionalized racism. in the Democratic party.

LBJ: "I'll have those n***ers voting Democratic for the next 200 years"

Tea Party Member Kevin Jackson:
"As a black man, I love it when ignorant white women like Janeane Garofalo speak for all blacks. It's thrilling to me that Janeane would take time out of her busy Hollyweird life to protect me and my peeps-the downtrodden, the oppressed-the lowly Negro.

For her efforts, I thank Garofalo, and anoint her Janeane Garofalo: White Chick Protector of the Lowly Negro. Who better than she to offer such protection? Garofalo, after all is an American hero! And I bet you were wondering who could possibly replace the likes of Barbara Streisand or Susan Sarandon-Madonna?
Garofalo is so in touch with the black condition, that she is uniquely qualified to assess and understand my people's "condition." Her intimate knowledge of blacks allows her to interpret how blacks think, and then translate "black-think" for the rest of America. "Cuz Lawd knows, we kaints do dis for ourselfs."
One source of Garofalo's insights into the black community, ergo the "black condition" is no doubt from Hollywood, as she is a product of that culture. Garofalo probably has in her movie collection films like Cleopatra Jones, the black heroine who is oppressed by the man.
What 'White Chick Protector of the Lowly Negro' collection would be complete without Superfly. Talk about learning how to stick it to the man, Superfly is the boilerplate, dare I say the 'White Chick Protector of the Lowly Negro' roadmap on how to stick it to the man. Further, Ron O'Neal, the actor who played Superfly, the black protagonist of the movie could easily be the predecessor for our first half-black president. Who can argue that Obama is indeed 'sticking it to the white man?'
The irony of Garofalo's comments is that they point directly at her own racist party: The Democrats!
I am always amazed at how well Democrats argue the tenets of racism'against themselves. The party that founded the Ku Klux Klan has the nerve to proselytize to Republicans about racism. Democrats have done nothing, repeat nothing for blacks, except to exploit blacks for Democrats' own racist agendas. If you don't believe me, look at, well'Janeane Garofalo!
Garofalo is a failed comedian, a hack of an actress, a failed radio talk-show host, and essentially has been out of the mainstream since making B-movies that had the viewership of an Olbermann segment on MSNBC! I get more views on my YouTube videos of racist Democrats picking lent from their navels and eating Cheetos. Admittedly those are funny, and the hit count is rising.
In typical racist Democrat elitist fashion, Garofalo feels the need to meddle in the black community. I can't imagine a life where I wake up in the morning and say something like, 'I think today I will read an article on [insert oppressed here], and then go on [insert oppressed here] TV to protect those pitiful, stupid, weak [insert oppressed here]. Kevin you are a wonderful man for caring about these people who obviously have no spokesperson, and can't protect themselves! I love me some ME! Such is the life of a racist Democrat elitist. Protectors of the World oh, and their own agendas!
Here's the wrap:
Black people should be up in arms over the idea that Garofalo thinks we are so weak, that we cannot defend ourselves. A group of people who survived slavery and the institutionalized racism of the Democratic Party, but we need the White Chick Protector of the Lowly Negro.

Further we should be offended that she is meddling not for us, but for her own benefit. She thinks we are stupid enough to support her lame attempt to exploit us. Are there not real black issues on which Garofalo could have been working in the black community that could have positive impact? I doubt it, since five decades of blacks voting Democrat have fixed all of the black community's problems.
Finally, and perhaps most absurd of all is Garofalo actually proves herself to be not only a racist, but the worst kind of racist an ignorant racist. She obviously knows nothing about the overwhelmingly racist history of her own party, and its decimation of black people.
Black people, wake up. What you have here is a no talent racist hack arguing for you, when there is no real issue. And it doesn't take a genius to connect the dots on this one.
Garofalo is the prototypical elitist, who believes blacks to be weak and stupid. With those perceptions of blacks, she is the perfect representative of the racist, elitist Democrat Party. How did we survive without them?"

---

01 Jul 11 - 10:42 AM (#3179718)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

BTW, Sawz... You a a LIAR of the HIGHEST ORDER!!!

You are so ignorant that you are clueless as to just how eat-up stupid you are and the worst part about it all is that you...

...are proud to be eat-up ignorant and stupid...

Get off your high horse and learn something, man... Take a course in "race studies" and until then just SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

People here don't need to see you act out your stupidity, your ignorance, your obsessive compulsive disorder and what ever other mental problems from which you suffer...

Have a nice day, LIAR of the HIGHEST ORDER!!!

B~

---

01 Jul 11 - 05:04 PM (#3179946)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

It seems pretty obvious to me that Sawzaw has started a FLAME WAR against Bobert.

A quick check shows me that he has been posting on Mudcat since September or 2008, and out of over 2,600 posts, he has posted on a MUSIC THREAD

ONLY ONCE,
and that was to ask what the difference is between Steeleye Span and Steely Dan. Other than that, what, exactly, is Sawzaw actually doing here on a Music website?

Much of the time he has been here, he has fairly obviously been making it a special point to rag on Bobert at every opportunity.

It looks a whole lot like STALKING to me!

I suggest totally ignoring him. At least until, and unless, he learns to behave like a civilized human being.

####

OKAY, EVERYONE! BACK TO YOUR CORNERS! IT'S TIME FOR A MUSICAL INTERLUDE!!

Hey, GfS! You still there?

My opinion, for what it's worth:

I don't think Puccini would disapprove, necessarily, of Jackie Evancho's performance of Nessun Dorma , and he certainly wouldn't be offended. I think he would identify her as a very promising singer, and one to keep his eye on as she grew and developed as a singer. He, and other opera composers, often wrote the parts in their operas with a specific singer in mind. For example, Mozart wrote the part of The Queen of the Night in "The Magic Flute" with a particular coloratura soprano in mind. He wanted the aria to be a show-stopper, and he knew the singer he was thinking of could hit all the high notes he wanted to put in it (practically dog-whistle range, and the highest note for a soprano in any opera written so far!).

But as to Jackie's singing that particular aria, I'm pretty sure Puccini would think pretty much as I did. That she did it very well, but other than singing it in a concert situation, she would never really be able to do anything else with it. She certainly couldn't sing it in the actual opera, because she would also have to sing everything else written for the part, wear the costumes, and act the role as well. Not real convincing if done by an eleven-year-old girl. And whenever she sang it in concert or recital (as a regular musical performance rather than being presented as, essentially, a child prodigy, the audience members who are familiar with it (and that would be almost all of them) couldn't help but think, "That's a tenor aria. Why is she singing it?" No matter how marvelously she did it, there would always be a noticable "clank!" there.

She would be far better off learning arias that she might actually be able to use later on if she goes into a career in opera.   Or musical theater. And there are quite a few songs and arias from both genres that she could sing quite impressively, without having to dip into songs written specifically for a male singer.


Puccini wrote operas that are quite popular with opera-going audiences ("La Bohème," "Madama Butterfly," "Tosca," "Girl of the Golden West," and a number of others), and beautiful and dramatic as they are, with a few exceptions, they are generally considered relatively easy on the voices of opera singers. In addition to o mio babbino caro from "Gianni Schicchi" that that Jackie burst into the limelight with, there is Chi il bel sogno di Dorettafrom his short opera, "La Rondine" ("The Swallow"). I think this would be within her abilities, but her voice teacher should be the one to make that determination.

Here's one of the world's great divas, Kiri Te Kanawa, singing it:    CLICKY.

I'm afraid I don't quite grasp the rest of your question. As far as writing songs for a specific gender or type of voice is concerned, I think who should sing the song and who really shouldn't depends on a number of factors.

It would be a bit odd to hear a male singer sing Nelly Forbush's song from "South Pacific," "I'm Gonna Wash That Man Right Outta My Hair!" Would kinda make you wonder a bit (but let's not go there!). Or for that matter, a light soprano singing "Ol' Man River." Although I have heard female singers do "Some Enchanted Evening" and bring it off quite well.

A lot depends on the song and the context.

Don Firth

Okay, everybody! Back to your customary uncivilized behavior!!

---

01 Jul 11 - 05:14 PM (#3179952)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Let a black man become president and it's time for the "revolution" buy guns, lots of ammo and learn to shoot straight 'cause these rednecks mean to kill people who ain't like them... they are out there preachin' violence, people feek empowered to think that violence is perfectly okay.

If the rednecks want out that bad then don't let the door hit ya'll on the way out... Ya'll allready have the highest divorce rates, the highest obesity rates, the highest health care costs, the dumbest people, the most per cpaital federal tax dollars returend to ya'll so ya'll becoming a drain on the rest of the country.... Yeah, if ya'll want out then fine with me... I rather live in an ara where people ain't brought up thinking that the government owed them everything while criticizing the hand that feeds 'um... I mean, these people couldn't survive 30 days without the northweat and west coast paying in the bigass $$$s that in turn got dooled out to them... Bunch of ungratefull crybabies as far as I can see...

BTW, the US now is 18th in high school graduation rates in the top 24 industrialized countries... Come to where I live an' you'll understand in about 10 minutes... I mean, I never thought I'd see our country so dumbed down... I mean, eat up with stupidity and ignorance and the worst part about it is that the Repubs have lived at the "Elitist (eductaed) plate" for so long that there are entire regions that think that education is stupid????

Gee what a refreshing new humanitarian slant on "reality"

First of all Bobert, you do know how education works in other countries don't you? Being so learned you must know that if a student does not pan out academically they are shunted off to Vocational school can never graduate from high school and are not included in those stats of yours. Sometimes they are split 3 ways, high school, general education and vocational.

Now suppose you, having learned all about bogus statistcs in a **college course**, add them to the number of people that did not graduate from high school in those other industrialized countries.

The US is the only country that tries to force every student through high school and many of them drop out.

But I am not going to arrogantly assign you homework and demand that you have to prove I am right. I am actually going to reject blowhardism and back up my facts.

The majority of Europeans spend at least nine or ten years at school. It is where they gain the basic knowledge, skills and competences that they need throughout their lives, and the place where fundamental attitudes and values develop. Schools should set their pupils on the path to a lifetime of learning, if they are to prepare them for the modern world. A sound school education system also helps ensure open and democratic societies by training people in citizenship, solidarity and participative democracy.

Dang, you know right there off the top, it sounds like over half of Europeans never get past 10th grade. Even less if they count Kindergarten.

The United States public school system is so different from public school systems in other nations that comparisons of student achievement almost certainly lack any validity.
For one thing, enrollment rates differ sharply. Elementary school education is compulsory throughout the world and enrollment rates approach 100% as they do in the United States. Enrollment rates at the middle and high school levels, however, average a mere 58% in the rest of the world, compared to a rate of more than 96% in the United States, where academic secondary school education is compulsory and universal. Thus, most secondary school systems in other countries are self-selective, automatically weeding out low achievers when they reach the age of 12 or 14 and either sending them off to labor, as they do in thirdworld countries, or to apprenticeships or vocational schools, as they do in the more advanced, industrialized nations such as France, Germany and Japan, among others. The process allows only the academically gifted to remain in academic high schools to compete in international testing with a far more average cross-section of American high school students. The American public school system is unique in that it is the only system in the world attempting to provide universal, academically oriented education to a massively heterogeneous student population of rich, poor, English- speaking, non English-speaking, white, minority, handicapped, learning disabled, hearing or visually impaired, emotionally disturbed and mentally retarded sometimes all in one building or classroom. Average achievement levels rise in schools with relatively advantaged, homogeneous student populations. It is not difficult to understand that the achievement level will be higher in classrooms with students who speak the same language, are equally healthy and wealthy, and from whom all disruptive children have been culled. The chances are nil of achieving the same academic results in a student population without similar advantages. If such comparisons have little statistical validity, they do, however, bring to the fore the question of whether the American public school education system should be doing what it is trying to do or whether it should convert its system to one more akin to those of Europe or Japan.

So now perfesser Bobert, you can take the podium and support your "facts"

---

01 Jul 11 - 05:27 PM (#3179954)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Dear Me Firth: Take check on how many times Bobert has flamed me and I have resisted flaming him back. And your once only once is incorrect plus BS is separate from the music and tech forums.

I have never once called him stupid or ignorant which he is not.

I am not the only one that has assailed his "facts" or drew his anger because he could not shut them up.

---

01 Jul 11 - 05:41 PM (#3179955)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Tahnks, Don... Stalking is exactly what it is... Sawz would like folks to think this is a two way thing... If it was then I'd go back and refresh threads just to attack Sawz when in fact I have never done that... I really don't give a rat's ass about sawz except when he's going thru his little cyber-psychotic episodes...

Here's the real deal: check out how many times Sawz has refreshed an old thread just to stalk me??? Dozens... Perhaps a hundred, I donno and don't much care...

BTW, before he came here as Sawz he was Dickey (or something like that) and before that he was Old Guy (or something like that)... I mean, he does constantly marginalize himself here with various handles and then has to re-register as someone "new"...

Oh well, enough...

You an' GfinS knock yerselves out with that "highbrow (lol) music"... I'm just a bluesman and the P-Vine's love slave (lol), I mean, chauffeur & gopher...

B~

---

01 Jul 11 - 07:13 PM (#3179983)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Borelli: "I'm a black, female conservative. I'm often targeted by individuals who call me all kinds of names: racist, an Uncle Tom, a traitor - you name it. I'd like to know if the NAACP will issue a statement condemning those individuals who were doing that."

Shelton: "Why, yes, ma'am Just give us some details The very broad answer is yes, we repudiate anybody calling you a bad name in the political arena."

Shelton added that the NAACP repudiated past assaults on Bush Administration cabinet members General Colin Powell and Dr. Condoleezza Rice.

In 2004, then- NAACP President and CEO Kweisi Mfume said, "attacks on Rice by the radio host and political cartoonists who use stereotypes and racial caricatures are just as bad as those who hide under sheets and burn crosses. This is something the NAACP has fought against for more than 95 years and something we will continue to oppose."

Mfume was understood to be referring to WTDY-Madison radio host John "Sly" Sylvester calling Rice "Aunt Jemima," cartoonist Ted Rall calling Rice President Bush's "house nigga," cartoonist Garry Trudeau calling her "Brown Sugar" and cartoonists Pat Oliphant and Jeff Danziger drawing her with accentuated black features and a rural dialect. Sylvester also called Colin Powell "Uncle Tom" on the air.

In response to Shelton's request to Borelli for details, a letter from Borelli was delivered to Shelton's office on July 28. In it, Borelli described some racist statements made against her and other Project 21 members and attached a packet of e-mails and postings on the Internet in which she and other Project 21 members have been called "Uncle Tom," "Auntie Tom," "Sambo," "house negro," "treasonous," "black tea-bagging ni**er," "sell out," "retarded," "hypocritical," "coon," "Stepin Fetchit," and a "modern day mammy," "despicable piece of garbage," "black cancer" and "black bitch."

Among the samples of emails sent to Borelli and forwarded to Shelton was this:

You faggot niggas need to be lynched by the Klan. I pray a nightrider strings up every one of you no count good for nothing niggas, it would serve you right for trying to think that these crackers love you. I hate a house nigga worse than I do a Klansman. Rot in hell you scurvy dogs. I would laugh to see you body strung up. It would save us real brothers the time and trouble to do it.

Borelli also told Shelton:

As we both seek a more civil debate, I am sure you are as appalled by these statements and the many others like them as I am. And I once again want to thank you for your on-air agreement on July 17 that the NAACP will specifically condemn the slurs made against me because I am an outspoken black conservative woman. We very much appreciate having the weight and prestige of the NAACP behind an effort to stop this unwarranted, unfair and uncivil treatment of people based solely on their political beliefs and skin color.

---

01 Jul 11 - 07:56 PM (#3179999)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

This comes from the web site of the The National Leadership Network of Black Conservatives' "Project 21," from a document complaining to the NAACP, demanding that they somehow put an end to black conservatives receiving e-mails containing messages of this type.

Since Sawzaw has not made clear what his intent is by posting this material here, from his history, particularly on this thread, it appears to me that what he is trying to do is imply that Bobert is somehow associated with sending these messages.

I'm beginning to find Sawzaw's transparently vicious attempts at slander absolutely contemptible.

Don Firth

---

01 Jul 11 - 08:06 PM (#3180006)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

From an article on trolling and flaming on the internet:

"One motive (of trolls and flamers) is the desire for attention and for self-entertainment derived at the expense of others. Posted flame-bait can provide the poster with a controlled trigger-and-response setting in which to anonymously engage in conflicts and indulge in aggressive behavior without facing the consequences that such behavior might bring in a face-to-face encounter.

"In other instances, flame-bait may be used to reduce a forum's use by angering the forum users."

The article goes into considerable detail as to the kind of techniques that trolls and flamers are prone to, but it concludes with the best way to handle trolls and flamers.

"Follow the oft-given but rarely taken advice, 'Don't feed the troll!' No matter how outrageous or insulting they are being, don't respond.

"Ignore them."

Works for me. Why don't we all give it a shot?

Don Firth

---

01 Jul 11 - 08:20 PM (#3180010)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Works for me, Don... Most of the time I just "turn the radio up"... It's easier to do when sawz-troll doesn't find an accomplice... This time he found GfinS and used her since he could see that me and the GfinS ain't on the same page most of the time... I guess that's why this round has ended somewhat differently from other rounds...

The sad part about this is the "needs" that Sawz must have that aren't being met in his real world life (if he has one)... That is terribly sad and it really breaks my heart that there are folks out there who have to resort to cyber-trolling to feel somewhat fulfilled...

Like I said on in an earlier post: glad it ain't me...

But it still is sad...

B~

---

01 Jul 11 - 08:41 PM (#3180018)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

My suspicion is that Sawzaw doesn't have much of a life in the 3-D world. Otherwise, how would he have so much time to put lengthy posts here on Mudcat, mostly cut-and-pasted from various Right-Wing web sites. Wading through all that garbage to find the kind of thing he wants to post here has to take a lot of time.

I wonder if he's seen the out-of-doors lately—or spent much time recently with people who are actually in the room with him.

I go away for awhile, and when I come back, he has another dozen long posts up.

Hell, I don't have time to wade through all of that!

Don Firth

---

01 Jul 11 - 09:00 PM (#3180026)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I don't either, Don...

I have read where computers will kinda tailor their searches to finding stuff you agree with and sawz says that his has nothing on "Dixiecrats"... Mine, I Google Dixiecrats and get 2000 sites about them???

That's purdy bad when your own computer takes over and decides what you need to know...

Thankfully, I am curious so I Google up so many different things that mine hasn't taken to feeding me a steady diet of horse manure...

No matter... Looks as if Saws is going to stalk Jack the Sailor for a while... Sorry, Jack, but happy to have him on to another person to obsess over...

B~

---

01 Jul 11 - 09:27 PM (#3180030)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Wasn't it Bobert that said he goes to mudcat and light up a stinkbomb?

Isn't it Bobert's transparently vicious attempts at slander when he blames a poor deranged dead guy on the tea party and then coflates it to the Taliban and the KKK? How chickenshit is that?

"from a document complaining to the NAACP, demanding that they somehow put an end to black conservatives receiving e-mails containing messages of this type"

Try catching your breath and reading it before you characterize it. It was an interview with the NAACP in which condemened the use of the same racist terms Bobert uses.

"his observations on the way things ARE" They are his projections on other people of what he claims they are saying when in fact it is what he is saying. He says someone is a "porch negro" and you claim that is the way it is? Then you are calling someone a "porch negro" too.

Then you demand proof of when Bobert said it, put up or shut up I did and still you are not satisfied.

Why don't you get Bobert to answer questions and support his facts? All he says is somebody is picking on him he is a victim and he does not have to answer. I always attempt to answer questions. i answer yours. Where are his?

I am saying we need to put racisim behind us But Bobert keeps wanting to stir it up and keep it going as if he is the last buggy whip maker and wants to keep buggies in production. He just can't let racism go and balmes it on others.

He holds "a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America"

---

01 Jul 11 - 10:16 PM (#3180060)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Here ya go Don This is what you asked for. Bobert is going to claim I am stalking him but you are the one that wanted it. Anything else sir?

Bobert
Bobert
Bobert
Bobert
Bobert
Bobert

---

01 Jul 11 - 10:47 PM (#3180071)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Idiot... Stalker... Mentally ill person...

What more can I say???

Nothing...

And I'm settin' about to say ***exactly that***, as in "nothing", in response to anymore of Sawz postings...

Jesus said, "Shake the dust off your robe"...

B~

---

02 Jul 11 - 02:31 PM (#3180293)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Just to finish off this libel of yours, Sawzaw.

I read the posts that you linked to, and yes, indeed, Bobert used the words you said he did. BUT—I also read enough of the discussion surrounding Bobert's posts to get a good idea of the nature of the discussion.

It's called putting the matter into context, Sawzaw, and that can totally change the nature and meaning of what is said. IN THE CONTEXT of the discussions, there is nothing in any of those posts to base an accusation of "bigotry" or "racism" against Bobert.

He is talking about specific individuals, not about whole races or groups.

I mentioned earlier my being criticized by self-appointed PC Police for singing "Black Girl" because I am white myself. And Richard Dyer-Bennet's being criticized for singing "John Henry," a song about a legendary black man while he, Dyer-Bennet, is white. Dyer-Bennet's answer was sharp and to the point. And I was told by four black friends and co-workers that criticizing me for singing "Black Girl" because it might offend blacks is utter nonsense, and that I should go ahead and sing the song.

Bobert sings blues—and there are goof-ball people out there in the world, not black people, who object to white people singing blues because "blues is black music and white people shouldn't be allowed to sing it!"

Jazz has its roots in the blues. So where do you draw the line?

As to the verbiage that Bobert used in those posts ("porch Negro" and "house Negro"), I have heard black friends, during political discussions, use those same terms in relation to the very same people that Bobert was talking about. Yes, they are pejorative. As was one black friend's use of the expression "shuckin' and jivin'" in relation to one of these same black political figures within the Bush administration.

Sawzaw, it's obvious to all that you've got some particular grudge against Bobert and that you are singling him out for special harassment in the form of what is legally libel and slander. Fortunately for you, you are hiding behind a "handle," which allows you to hide your real identity. Taking pot-shots from the underbrush the way you are doing is the sign of a coward!

GET OFF BOBERT'S CASE!!! You are making a complete ASS of yourself.

Push back from the computer, which you have to be spending all of your time in front of to be reading all the blogs you cut-and-paste from and spending so much time logged on to Mudcat. Go outside. Breath some fresh air. Got to the park. Watch the squirrels. Smell the flowers.

For YOUR OWN SAKE, man, GET A LIFE!!

Don Firth

P. S. END of communication with Sawzaw.

---

02 Jul 11 - 04:22 PM (#3180360)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Taking pot-shots" is what Bobert does when he takes a dead guy with a lot in common with him, connects him with the tea party the KKK and the Taliban and chuckles about it as if he has done some intelligent thing that is going to make the world better.

When some one refers to a certain individual as a "house negro" or a "porch negro" they are using a racist term as a pejorative. That is the whole idea. To denigrate a person because of their skin color, personal, political or religious beliefs.

I do not do that. Furthermore Bobert does it in such a bellicose manner that it seems ingrained in his personality. Then he accuses the Tea Party members of doing the same which #1 he provides no proof and #2 makes believe it is OK for him to do so but wrong for someone else to do so.

Bobert is the one that has attacked me and called me stupid insane etc. etc. because I disagree with him. This intolerance for anyone that disagrees with him is bigotry. His hatred for Condolezza Rice and Clarence Thomas speaks of bigotry. Would he using such harsh racial terms on a white person in the same position?

Some people think Black people are under their care because they cannot take care of themselves, keep telling them they are victims and they need Democrats to take care of them. When they see one that does not follow their agenda, they can't control their racism and the racial terms appear.

I have said umpteen times, we need to forget about skin color but Bobert types have to keep stoking the fire and blaming it on others.

His constant statements of "facts" and his refusal to support his "facts" and his brags about his accuracy make me conclude his is a blowhard. He seems to enjoy arguing about his facts that can't support and insulting people in the process. I don't see him holding back on his vicious accusations of other people. "they want to kill so and so, so you need to by guns, they hate anybody that disagrees with them, they will kill them".

I don't care who sings or plays what. If someone objects to someone doing something due to skin color it would be a racial matter.

I started to post something here about Jackie Evancho and my limited interest in Opera but I did not do so because I thought you would claim I was patronizing.

---

02 Jul 11 - 07:29 PM (#3180456)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

I looked at the Rasmussen poll and wondered how accurate it was since it didn't specify in what ways Americans agree with the Tea Party. The problem with polls is how they ask the questions. With a slight variation in the question, a reverse result is possible.

The term "terrorist" has lost all sense of meaning because it can refer to any violent activity that is done in the name of an ideology, including nationalism or religion.
It is a political football to be used to denigrate anyone who holds views that are antithetical to established ones by political officials.

Maybe the Tea Party is a terrorist organization as is some of the policies regarding
the US role in Afghanistan (Blackwater, Special Ops, and the CIA), Iraq, Libya, Pakistan,
Gaza (the Mossad) and if these are called by that name would it apply?

Maybe the term "terrorist" is generic and applies to any ideology that is enforced by violence with which someone doesn't agree.

I remember when "communist" was the ad hominem term of choice to be applied liberally to anyone who was controversial and not in lockstep with the prevailing pseudo-national propaganda being sold to the public.

To claim that the Tea Party is close to what Americans actually believe is really hard
to accept as a legitimate appraisal since it's modus operandi is often a shield for corporate America, they, apparently divided on this point by their own members, some who claim a grass roots movement independent of corporate influence.

I have not heard any Tea Party member on the media decry the Koch Brothers or their Americans for Prosperity which makes me suspicious that there is any genuine grass roots movement worth talking about.

The Tea Party movement is predicated on a distorted view of American history through a misunderstanding of what the Boston Tea Party was about, a rebellion against the East India Tea Company and it's attempt to corner the market on the sale of tea in the Colonies. This is never presented in most history classes in grade or high school.

BTW, there were no tea bags then. This underscores the trumped-up symbolism that the organization attempts to market.

Also, a final note: counter-terrorism can be seen as a form of terrorism if it uses a violent response by fighting fire with fire.

---

02 Jul 11 - 07:44 PM (#3180463)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

The Rasmussen Poll is the FoxNews of polling...

B~

---

03 Jul 11 - 06:29 PM (#3180916)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

To me, a terrorist is someone that uses scare tactics.

A person who employs terror or terrorism, esp as a political weapon.

A person who terrorizes or frightens others.

---

03 Jul 11 - 09:35 PM (#3181011)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: katlaughing

"spose Ike was psychic?:

Should any political party attempt to abolish social security,
unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Their number is negligible and they are stupid. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

I hope he was correct!

---

03 Jul 11 - 10:05 PM (#3181022)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Good quote, kat! Thanks for posting that.

Just in case. For those who fell asleep in American History class or who are otherwise clueless--

Eisenhower was a Republican.

He's also the President who warned the nation of the dangers of the "military-industrial" complex.

(DAMN, it would help if people paid attention!!)

Don Firth

---

03 Jul 11 - 10:55 PM (#3181039)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

You beat me to that quote, Don...

It was in Ike's farewell address to the nation and I think that given his past that we should have taken his advice...

Since then we have be embroiled in war after war after war and gotten nothin' out of any of them...

We have shredded trillions and trillions of dollars and wasted the lives of so many people that if the *US* didn't have nuclear capabilities, it would certainly have been implicated in War Crimes...

Yeah, in the words of the late and great Waylon Jennings, "We need a change"...

B~

---

04 Jul 11 - 07:03 AM (#3181134)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Yeah, in the words of the late and great Waylon Jennings, "We need a change"..."

Still waiting.....

GfS

---

04 Jul 11 - 07:24 AM (#3181146)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

OR......

Bobert: "Yeah, in the words of the late and great Waylon Jennings, "We need a change"..."

Still waiting.....??????????
I guess 'Change' was just another bullshit promise, from the same o' bullshit factory!

GfS

---

04 Jul 11 - 08:34 AM (#3181170)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Your blood sugar level must be low, GfinS...

B;~)

---

04 Jul 11 - 07:44 PM (#3181514)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I wonder if Don thinks I don't know why he is not answering my opera comment..... Too much food for thought, eh, Don, and you've got indigestion?

GfS

---

04 Jul 11 - 08:35 PM (#3181525)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

GfS, you've got to learn to read thoroughly. Or at least scan a bit more thoroughly.

On 01 July at 5:04 p.m., I responded to a post of Sawzaw's. Then, I inserted a divider (####) and wrote a fairly long and detailed answer to your question about Jackie Evancho's singing of Nessun Dorma and what Puccini may very well have thought of it. Along with some other obsevations.

Go look.   Actually, I've been waiting for your response to that, and wondering if you'd just lost interest.

Why would you think I might not respond to your question? It's hardly one that would be any kind of challenge to me. Opera is a subject in which I am particularly well versed.

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, Barbara and I have guests coming this evening, arriving in about half an hour, so I probably won't be able to get back to you until tomorrow.

---

05 Jul 11 - 03:21 AM (#3181614)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don, I found it.....the other stuff was going on, so I didn't check for a couple of days....I'm going to think about it....because, just as I was in perfect agreement with you, as far as to a concert versus opera performance,...wasn't there a 'gay' performance of it, in West Hollywood?..and even the female parts were men.... Both Judy Collins, and Dan Fogelberg did a version of Judi's Fogelberg, 'Since You've Asked'
and this is her original version(She wrote it) Judy Collins 'Since You've Asked'

..and the change in the lyrics made it ok..but in opera, not so good...or the age or gender change.

Hmm, I wonder why............What would you think Puccini would think?..and Why?

GfS

---

05 Jul 11 - 03:27 PM (#3181983)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

GfS, maybe I'm missing something here.

"...wasn't there a 'gay' performance of it, in West Hollywood?..and even the female parts were men.... Both Judy Collins, and Dan Fogelberg did a version of Judi's Fogelberg, 'Since You've Asked'
and this is her original version(She wrote it) Judy Collins 'Since You've Asked'

..and the change in the lyrics made it ok..but in opera, not so good...or the age or gender change."

A "gay" performance of what? Turandot? I don't know. I never heard of it if there was.

And how does this relate to the videos you linked to (beautiful graphics, by the way). If there was a difference in lyrics between the two versions, I couldn't pick it up. Judy Collins' voice is as clear as a bell and her diction is quite precise, but in the Fogelberg video, the musical arrangement, lovely though it was, made the lyrics muddy and indistinct. So if there was a difference in lyrics, I wasn't able to distinguish it.

But again. How does this relate?

And what do I think Puccini would think of the differences between the Judy Collins and Dan Fogelberg videos? I haven't a clue!

Could you clarify a bit?

Don Firth

---

05 Jul 11 - 04:08 PM (#3181998)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

January 7, 2010 1:13 PM

Conservatives Outnumber Moderates, Liberals, Poll Shows

By
    Stephanie Condon
Topics
    Polling

(CBS/AP)
The nation is becoming more partisan, Gallup poll trends from the past decade show, with self-identified conservatives outnumbering both moderates and liberals for the first time since 2004.

Still, fewer than 41 percent of Americans identify as Republican or Republican-leaning -- eight points below the declining percentage of Americans who identify as Democrats or Democratic-leaning.

An aggregate of 21 Gallup and USA Today/ Gallup polls from 2009 show that 40 percent of Americans call themselves conservative, while 36 percent identify as moderate and 21 percent identify as liberal. In 2008, by contrast, moderates matched conservatives at 37 percent while 22 percent called themselves liberal.

The percentage of Americans identifying as either conservative or liberal has crept up over the past decade, Gallup concludes, while the percentage of moderates has declined.

Though the percentage of conservatives jumped three points in 2009, the percentage of Americans who identify with the Republican party remained statistically the same in 2009 -- at 40.7 percent -- as in the previous year. The percentage of self-identified Republicans has declined in Gallup polls since 2004.

More Americans -- 49 percent -- said they were Democrats or Democratic-leaning. However, 2009 was the first time since 2005 that fewer than half of Americans called themselves Democrats. Additionally, the percentage of Democrats steadily declined over the course of 2009.

As many as 36.6 percent of Americans in 2009 said they were independents. The only other year this decade with that many self-identified independents was 2007, when 38.6 percent of Americans called themselves independent.

       *Stephanie Condon is a political reporter for CBSNews.com.

---

05 Jul 11 - 05:38 PM (#3182050)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Oh, another pol... Ho hum???

B~

---

05 Jul 11 - 06:09 PM (#3182062)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

The nation is becoming more partisan...

Damn, PeeDee! Thats absolutely ASTOUNDING! Who would ever have believed it.

[ I wonder how many if these self-defined "conservatives" can actually define the term. Did the poll include that? ]

---

05 Jul 11 - 07:43 PM (#3182100)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Funny thing... When people are asked straight up about various policies they tend to be purdy liberal...

B~

---

05 Jul 11 - 09:14 PM (#3182129)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Obama a 'house negro', says Al-Qaeda

Sydney Morning Herald
WASHINGTON: Al-Qaeda's first message to Barack Obama after his election win shows a "panicked response" to his popularity, counter-terrorism experts said.

In a propaganda salvo on Wednesday, Osama bin Laden's senior deputy condemned Mr Obama as a "house Negro" doing the bidding of white masters.

Ayman al-Zawahiri called him "the direct opposite of honourable black Americans" such as Malcolm X. "It is true about you and people like you what Malcolm X said about the house Negros," he said in a video released on Wednesday, naming Colin Powell, the former US secretary of state, and, Condoleezza Rice, the incumbent, as others who fitted the description.

He said the "new face" of America only masked a "heart full of hate" and warned Mr Obama that the US could face the same failures as the Soviet Union in Afghanistan if he makes true on his pledges to deploy thousands more troops there.

---

05 Jul 11 - 10:43 PM (#3182163)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Which kind of poops on the face of those who claim that Obama is secretly a Muslim, doesn't it!

Don Firth

---

05 Jul 11 - 11:15 PM (#3182174)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Obama a Muslim, Don???

Danged!!!

Cool!!!

We could use a Muslim president since it seems that the fringe bigots and racists in America are on one of their "We hate everyone else" binges... Maybe loosen them up a tad...

lol...

B~

---

05 Jul 11 - 11:55 PM (#3182185)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

At least Ayman al-Zawahiri agrees with Bobert about Condi and Colin being house negros.

Bobert knows how to pick his fellow hatemongers and racists.

---

06 Jul 11 - 01:11 AM (#3182206)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Sawzaw, Adolf Hitler probably had the idea that the sky was blue and the sun rose in the east.

You probably agree that the sky is blue and the sun rises in the east. (You DO, don't you!??)

I guess that makes you a fellow mass murderer.

That's the kind of "logic" you just used in your above post.

Don Firth

---

06 Jul 11 - 01:28 AM (#3182208)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Hi Don....Ok, maybe it wasn't clear. I was asking you, if you thought Puccini would have..umm..'approved'(for lack of a better word), of a female vocalist singing 'Nessum Dorma'..as in Jackie's performance, both because of her age, range(soprano) and gender.
Next part, but related....
I posted the two, Judy and Dan's version of the same song('Since You've Asked')..BUT in the two versions, they changed just a couple of lyrics, so Dan's version is geared to singing to a woman, and Judi's is to a man....unlike Puccini's which is pretty well set, as to ONE set of lyrics...but with a soprano(Jackie), instead of a tenor, and NO lyric change...and sticking to the original..
Now go back, and re-read the first paragraph. See if that is clearer.

GfS

---

06 Jul 11 - 02:47 AM (#3182223)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

You mean Adolph is associated with Bobert too? Man this is worse than I thought. He is right there in the center and others are only on the fringe.

How about you? do you believe Condi and Colin are house negros?

At least the NAACP had the decency to disagree.

Here is another person that can be added to the list of Bobert's like minded people:

...Who cut off peoples hands in the Congo Who invented Aids Who put the germs In the Indians' blankets Who thought up "The Trail of Tears"

Who blew up the Maine & started the Spanish American War Who got Sharon back in Power Who backed Batista, Hitler, Bilbo, Chiang kai Chek who WHO W H O/

Who decided Affirmative Action had to go Reconstruction, The New Deal, The New Frontier, The Great Society,

Who do Tom Ass Clarence Work for Who doo doo come out the Colon's mouth Who know what kind of Skeeza is a Condoleeza Who pay Connelly to be a wooden negro Who give Genius Awards to Homo Locus Subsidere..

This guy was employed by the State of New Jersey when he wrote this.

---

06 Jul 11 - 09:44 AM (#3182401)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Who's this Puccini dude???

B~

---

06 Jul 11 - 11:32 AM (#3182455)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Another member of Bobert's think tank

---

06 Jul 11 - 06:08 PM (#3182661)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

So here's the deal folks...

The Tea Party thinks that Obama created the national debt all by himself... Yup, that's gotta be what they are thinking or why else would they refuse to pay for the two wars that George Bush ordered up for pure political reasons and wouldn't pay for??? And now the bills have come in and the Tea Party says, "Not our problem"???

No, TeaParty/Redneck Nation, it is 100% your problem... You were the creeps who supported and cheered these wars on and called the anti-war folks all kinds of names because we didn't think there were any reasonable reasons to for the wars...

But now the bills come in from Bank of China and the Tea Party wants to tell Chine, Who, BTW we sell billion$$$ of US products to, to "fuck off"??? That is not only stupid but it is suicidal for any economic recovery...

Here's what I'd like all Tea Partiers to do... Stop running your stupid mouths long enough to call you creditors and tell them that you have changed your mind about those payment contracts you entered into and that you aren't going to pay them any more money... Teh I want you to take another hour off from running your stupid mouths in a month and call the three major credit reporting agencies and see what your CBI score is... Yeah, do that...

When ya'll have done that please come back here and report how things are going in your life...

B~

---

06 Jul 11 - 06:10 PM (#3182662)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

Marginalize the bastards.

---

06 Jul 11 - 07:59 PM (#3182717)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

They, unfortunately, in spite of their limited understanding how things work, have had upwards of a billion dollars throw at them and the morons are in Congress, brucie...

It's lie cancer... I mean, knowing its bad and wishing you didn't have it doesn't change the fact that you have it...

The voters will figure it out but not before they and thei masters (Koch brothers- air polluter and water poisoners and Dick Armey -health insurance companies) have set America back decades...

B~

---

07 Jul 11 - 06:41 PM (#3183430)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Okay, folks. Time for another muzikul interlewd.

Hey, GfS, are you there?

No, GfS, I don't think Puccini would disapprove of or be offended by Jackie Evancho's singing of Nessun Dorma—nor of anyone else for that matter, be it another woman or, say, a baritone who wants to sing it in a recital and transcribes it to a lower key. In my estimation, he would probably think, "that's interesting—but a bit weird," and that would be about it. Except that I'm quite sure he would have thought that vocally, Jackie did it very well.

There are lots of songs out there, written for specific parts in operas, operettas, Broadway musicals and such, for example, "Ol' Man River" from "Showboat" that are written specifically for a bass (I think Paul Robeson was the first to sing it on stage, but I could be wrong;   at least he was well-known for singing it. But it would really be a bit weird to hear the song sung by a woman.

But there are a lot of songs written for a specific part in a musical where, outside the context of the musical, the gender or voice type of the singer doesn't really matter that much, and in which a few words may be changed to accommodate the gender of the singer and the song still works well. Many of these songs that started out as Broadway show tunes have been excerpted from the musical that introduced them and have become part of the standard popular music repertoire, sung by singers of either gender and all voice types. I don't think composer who wrote a song for Frank Sinatra would be at all upset if Peggy Lee wanted to do it as well (changing a word or two to accommodate her gender)—especially if the composer is receiving his regular checks from ASCAP.

But operatic arias, although frequently taken out of the context of the opera and sung in concert and recitals, are rarely sung by different genders or voice types. Mainly because no one wants to. They prefer to sing songs that are more suitable to them.

Why should I, a bass, want to sing an aria written for a mezzo-soprano when the bass operatic repertoire is so full of great stuff to sing?

I'll bet dollars to donuts that the choice of Nessun Dorma for Jackie to sing was made, not by Jackie, but by David Foster, because the aria is well-known from Luciano Pavarotti's having sung it a lot, not because it was suitable for Jackie. She did a nice job of it, but that's not the point.

Beware of people who want to advise you and guide your career, especially if they have dollar-$ign$ in their eyes.

####

By the way, a bit of sad news:

Although I'm pretty sure I'd heard him on the Metropolitan Opera broadcasts on Saturday afternoons, I first became acquainted with Giorgio Tozzi when he dubbed the voice for Rossano Brazzi in "Some Enchanted Evening" in the movie version of "South Pacific." A couple of decades later, Seattle Opera included Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" in their season. Lavish sets and costumes, and an excellent cast of singers, headed by Giorgio Tozzi singing the role of Boris. I was familiar with the opera (I have a full-length recording of it with Russian bass Nicolai Ghiaurov singing the role of Boris) and Tozzi did an absolutely outstanding job, both singing and acting.

Here he is, singing a scene from "Boris Godunov." It's the scene in which a conscience-stricken Boris hears that Prince Dmitri is leading a march against Moscow. Can't be! Because Boris killed him years ago and took over the throne himself. Because his conscience has been nagging at him, Boris is not too tightly wrapped. When the clock chimes, he begins hallucinating, and sees the blood-soaked body of the young prince Dmitri pointing at him accusingly. The clip runs about 15 minutes. Sung in English (as he did it in the Seattle Opera production) rather than in Russian.    The Clock Scene.   (Video and audio quality not real great.)

GfS, when you mentioned knowing him, I googled a bit to learn more about him, and learned that he has just passed away, on May 30th, 2011, at the age of 88. He was in the hospital battling a case of pneumonia when he had a heart attack.

Obit.

I was really sorry to hear that.

Don Firth

---

07 Jul 11 - 06:59 PM (#3183439)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

And we inch toward that 1000 mark one inch at a time...

B~

---

08 Jul 11 - 01:30 PM (#3183837)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

SANTA CRUZ - A large group of protesters demonstrating at a May Day rally for worker's and immigrant rights downtown broke off into a riot vandalizing about a dozen businesses around 10:30 p.m. Saturday, police said.
Many in the group were carrying makeshift torches as they marched, breaking storefront windows and writing "anarchist graffiti" on buildings, according to Capt. Steve Clark. Many businesses sustained multiple broken windows including very large storefront windows at Urban Outfitters and The Rittenhouse building. Police believe at least 15 businesses suffered damage.
The violence was initiated from a group holding a rally at the town clock for May Day. Windows at Jamba Juice and Velvet Underground were left shattered and graffiti including anarchy signs were tagged onto buildings.
Because of the size and violent demeanor of the crowd, Santa Cruz police asked for help from all agencies in the county to break up the riot. At one point, protesters lit a fire on the porch of Caffe Pergolesi and blocked access to firefighters, officers said. Police were able to clear out the demonstrators before more damage was caused.
A large rock sat outside Verizon Wireless on the 100 block of Cooper Street, where vandals tried to break the window twice, according to Clark.
"The damage that was caused was without purpose," Clark said. "It was senseless violence that victimized a community who cannot afford to be victimized in this manner. This did nothing to add credit to whatever they believed their cause was."
One person, 24-year-old Jimi Haynes, a transient from Fresno County, was arrested for felony vandalism for damaging a window. Haynes is also wanted on a parole violation, Clark said. Police are searching for others responsible for the damage. Protesters cleared the downtown area around midnight.
"Our entire team of investigators are processing the scene of violence for evidence," Clark said. "We will be looking at video available to try to
Haynes was observed traveling with this group and breaking windows at the Dell Williams Jewelry store. Haynes broke two large display windows in the front of the store. The witnesses followed him and called police. Haynes was located by arriving Watsonville PD officers who detained Haynes, Clark said.
Haynes is on parole out of Fresno County for burglary. He has been in Santa Cruz for the past several weeks where he has established an arrest history, Clark said. Haynes admitted to participating in the rally after receiving a flyer at a local anarchist café. Haynes was booked into Santa Cruz County Jail.
Once order was restored, police detectives worked throughout the night to collect evidence and document the damage to each of the businesses, Clark said. The police department guarded exposed storefronts, and arranged for private security to watch the businesses until windows could be boarded, and responsible persons contacted.
The police department encourages anyone with information (include any photos or video footage) to make contact and report the information. The police department will be working to identify and prosecute additional individuals involved in the march and subsequent violence.

---

08 Jul 11 - 06:20 PM (#3183980)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Thanks, Sawz... Tho I don't read any of your posts anymore this thread is limping toward the 1000 mark... That would be a first for any thread I've started... Katrinagate gave out in the 800s, if I remember correctly...

B~

---

08 Jul 11 - 06:49 PM (#3183997)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Well Bobz, I'm helpin ya get to the big 1 Kilopost mark!

---

08 Jul 11 - 07:29 PM (#3184024)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

After being shreaded in his belligerent kamikaze killer attack on a poor guitar pickin dead guy in his rabid attempt to tie the Teaparty to the KKK the taliban, He now desparately attempts to switch the subject to the war ot the deficit.

"You were the creeps who supported and cheered these wars on"

Really? Obama is a creep?

PHOENIX -- President Barack Obama told military service members Monday that the war in Afghanistan was: not a war of choice. This is a war of necessity. Those who attacked America on 9/11 are plotting to do so again. If left unchecked, the Taliban insurgency will mean an even larger safe haven from which Al Qaeda would plot to kill more Americans.

So this is not only a war worth fighting. This is fundamental to the defense of our people. and that the U.S. would adhere to its timetable to withdraw troops from Iraq by the end of 2011.

"By moving forward in Iraq, we're able to refocus on the war against al Qaeda and its extremist allies in Afghanistan and Pakistan,"

---

In September 2004, in the heat of his campaign for the U.S. Senate, Obama said (according to an AP report) that even though Bush had bungled his handling of the war, simply pulling out of Iraq would make things worse. Therefore, he himself would be willing to send more soldiers to Iraq if it is part of a strategy that the President and military leaders believe will stabilize the country and eventually allow America to withdraw.

---

As President, I will make the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban the top priority that it should be. This is a war that we have to win. We need a stronger and sustained partnership between Afghanistan, Pakistan and NATO to secure the border, to take out terrorist camps, and to crack down on cross-border insurgents.

I will send at least two additional combat brigades to Afghanistan, and use this commitment to seek greater contributions with fewer restrictions from NATO allies.

I have always thought that we did the right thing in Afghanistan.

Oh and Bobert, why haven't you mentioned bombing Libya? Or Somalia? or Yemen? Who is responsible for them?

---

08 Jul 11 - 07:50 PM (#3184036)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Thanks, JtS...

B~

---

08 Jul 11 - 08:02 PM (#3184045)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Dang. Must be them skin head hate the government extreme right wing radical Sovereign Citizens again. Or not?

ASHEVILLE, N.C. -- Police have arrested nearly a dozen people who are accused in a rampage through the downtown area of Asheville on Saturday.
The spree, according to police, included 30 to 40 people dressed in black, wearing face-coverings and carrying hammers that they used to damage businesses and smash car windows just before 11 p.m. Saturday.
Detectives have issued 112 warrants for Damage to Property. The 11 were also charged with a total of 33 felonies, 3 felonies for each suspect. The three felony charges were felony riot, felony conspiracy to riot and felony damaged property
Bond for each suspect was raised to $50,000. Asheville police raised their estimate of total damage to nearly $20,000.

The Asheville Citizen Times was one of several downtown businesses that had a front window smashed. Along with the windows, an automated teller machine was damaged at a bank. Most of the people arrested were from eastern North Carolina or out of state, police said.

With several in the group reportedly yelling unintelligably as they vandalized, those on the rampage walked south on O'Henry Avenue and turned left on Battery Park Avenue. Some walked through the alley beside the Citizen-Times, where several employees of the paper had rushed to ensure the safety of their cars.

The vandals are believed to have ties to an anarchist website associated with the May Day movement, which has become a
day of solidarity for marking worker solidarity and has been seized upon for anticapitalism displays of violence.
"What's most upsetting is that these young college kids are not from Asheville. Why pick on a small town," said Ruth Summers, executive director of Grove Arcade Market Foundation.

The Eye Center on O'Henry Avenue was the first target in a line of destruction.

A rock shattered the front door made of glass.

"I'd like an apology. I'd like them to pay for the damage," said owner Paul Endry.

---

Nov. 24 in the dead of night, we attacked the Department of Corrections (DOC): Division of Community Corrections on McDowell St. in Asheville, NC.

Six DOC vehicles were disabled. Their tires were slashed and their windows destroyed with glass etching fluid. "Burn the Prisons" and a circled A were scrawled across DOC building's veneer.

This building oversees the administration of probation and forced drug texts. It is one institutional position of the DOC. It is linked to the Prison Industrial Complex, and the police apparatus. We did this as an attack against this institution in particular and the police apparatus in general. We did this as an act of revolutionary solidarity with comrade Eric Oseland, comrade David Japenga, and comrade Alfredo Bonanno, who was recently released from Greek Prison.

In a world dominated by these institutions and saturated by police, we did this to show that we will not be neutralized, and that it is absolutely possible and imperative that we fight these motherfuckers.

Love and solidarity with all prisoners and POWs in social war.

---

I guaranty that if every law

I guaranty that if every law abiding citizen were to become aggressively non-cooperative that the system would collapse from exhaustion. The social order survives because the American majority hold it together by consent in an orderly cooperative fashion. With 90 % staying in line; going to work, school, consuming, and paying their taxes and obeying all laws EVERYDAY, I'm for certain that even if 100 million people peacefully holding a sign all at the same time saying "end the war" would do absolutely nothing, which just goes to prove my point even further once again.

To say "That mentality sounds just about as fucking stupid and dogmatic as pacifism" is not only disregarding the successful overthrowing of governments through out history but also selling your self short as if the human-race have no hope of pulling them selves out of their situation no matter what course of action they take no matter how hard they try. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE! To say that it is hopeless is just as good as believing life has no purpose or value, so there for what's the use of doing anything but trolling on anarchist websites to pea in everyones soup.

---

08 Jul 11 - 08:09 PM (#3184051)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Gee! I thought those folks were from Biblical times and had long since past into the mists of early history. But judging from a couple of posts just above, apparently not.

Babble-on-ians.

Don Firth

---

08 Jul 11 - 09:26 PM (#3184084)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yo, Don... If Sawz ever makes any sense please PM me... But I guess that won't happen... No matter... another couple posts closer to that big 1000...

Thanks,

B~

---

08 Jul 11 - 09:41 PM (#3184091)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Oh heck...

---

08 Jul 11 - 09:41 PM (#3184092)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

999...

---

08 Jul 11 - 09:42 PM (#3184093)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

BINGO!!!

B~

---

08 Jul 11 - 10:06 PM (#3184103)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

On his own Sawz makes plenty of sense, but when he goes to that "special website" that gets him all hot and bothered, he copies large tracts of the cowshit and pastes it here.

The cowshit really doesn't match the bull shit of Sawz own creation which does make plenty of sense, so we end up getting a noxious chemical reaction.

The reactons generated by the bovines in heat, clouds the issues in a thick heady stench of bigotry on a crisp cracker of racism directed primarily at Obama.

Note that this is not from Sawz himself but from the "special website" for which he has developed a strange addiction.

He will be just fine when he reaches from within once again.

---

08 Jul 11 - 10:13 PM (#3184107)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

...and quits his calling me a bigot or racist because that dog don't hunt... Might of fact, that dog never existed...

As for his websites, I have read that with all the tracking of searches that if one is all eat up with right winged stuff that the computer will shovel more and more of it at you until you can't even get a straight answer out of your own computer...

I like to keep mine guessing so I Google up stuff all over the political spectrum... That way, I do get a decent search...

B~

---

08 Jul 11 - 10:15 PM (#3184109)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

More of these right wing extremists Soverign Citizens Bobert warned us about?:

Philadelphia Police are searching for suspects in involved in at least two assaults during a massive flash mob on South Street over the weekend.

Surveillance video shows hundreds of people invading the intersection of 8th and South Streets, filling the street and surrounding a vehicle at about 9 p.m. Saturday. Two blocks away, Olympia Pizza employee Seth Kaufman said he was beaten by a crowd attempting to enter the store. "40 to 50 punches I took. 20 kicks. I just stood my ground as best I could and fought them off," Kaufman said.

Kaufman and restaurant operator Paul Psihogios were trying to keep the unruly crowd from entering the business. "I'm just trying to hold off the crowd, hold the door," said Psihogios. At 15th and South Street, a 27-year-old woman was brutally attacked after being surrounded by scores of people. "She had a broken nose and they knocked out two teeth," said Good Samaritan Rick Almeid, who aided the victim. "She was just an innocent young girl."

---

08 Jul 11 - 10:41 PM (#3184121)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

So, Sawz. where did I warn anyone of "right winged Soverign Citizens"???


B~

---

09 Jul 11 - 12:29 AM (#3184155)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Thought you weren't going to read my Posts? You sly dog.

Oh, I guess you haven't heard of the Sovereign Citizens movement, gn-zer... It's part of the looney right and it advocastes killing anyone who works for the government..

Oh, I guess you haven't heard of the Sovereign Citizens movement, gn-zer... It's part of the looney right and it advocastes killing anyone who works for the government...Actually, the Sovereign Citizen movement also thinks that the reason that the US requires birth certificates is so they can sell people to the Chinese???

Talk about some messed up thinkin'???

I saw a video the other night of a couple of SC nutballs who purposely did something to get pulled over by a cop so they could kill him which, BTW, they did...Taliban ain't got much on our loony right...

Here's your Sovereign Citizen

Alton, IL - An Alton man and woman were cited with violating the city fireworks ordinance for their alleged parts in the July 4 fireworks disturbance at Oakwood Estates housing complex.

The man, Dequan D Searles, 19, of the 3100 block of Lawn Street in the Alton Acres public housing complex, formerly had been charged with misdemeanor disorderly conduct on July 20. A judge had set bond of $3,000 for that charge.

Subsequent to that charge, on July 23, the city cited Searles and Lucie M. Pigee, 54, of the 700 block of Oakwood Road in Oakwood Estates, with violating the city fireworks ordinance.

The ordinance violation complaints say Searles possessed and discharged bottle rockets and Roman candles, and that Pigee had purchased and possessed those two types of fireworks. The complaint against Pigee does not say whether she provided fireworks to Searles.

The Madison County Circuit Court was to issue summonses to Searles and Pigee.

Police said three juveniles also are facing charges related to the incident, but their names and other information are not being released because of their status as minors.

The citations and charges follow an investigation by police and Alton Housing Authority officials, which included their spending three to four hours evaluating images on videotapes taken by surveillance cameras of the melee on July 4 and 5.

Authorities claimed people in the crowd of hundreds that had gathered at Oakwood started a large trash receptacle on fire a total of four times on July 4 and 5. Late July 4 and early July 5, some of the people also shot fireworks at responding firefighters and at police who were checking out fireworks reports and attempting to assist firefighters.

Police used pepper-ball guns to quell the crowd. The mob then left behind a mass of fireworks debris and beer bottles, among other trash strewn across the housing complex grounds.

AHA officials said they were in the process of evicting two families for their members' or guests' fireworks-related actions. In addition to the arrests, three residents are being evicted. A third family also allegedly involved in shooting fireworks already is being evicted for other reasons.

After the incident, police began conducting additional patrols of government low income public housing complex.

---

09 Jul 11 - 12:38 AM (#3184157)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Another Bobert Associate?

The formerly anonymous creator of crashtheteaparty.org Jason Levin has been publicly outed just days before thousands of Tax Day Tea Party rallies will be taking place nationwide.

A quote from Levin's MySpace page:

"As a black lesbian trapped in the body of a straight white man, I am able to pass as a member of the establishment wile still maintaining my oneness with the spirit of the Earf Muvah. I’m currently being sued by my inner child for molestation...but trust me, the charges are baseless."

Levin told the AP Monday, he "had over 65 leaders in major cities across the country trying to recruit members to infiltrate tea party events for April 15."

The mission of crashtheteaparty.org is simple. "Infiltrate and dismantle" the movement from the inside out. The group's strategy is to impersonate tea party supporters and portray them as right-wing extremists in front of the news cameras in order to discredit the cause. The biggest Tax Day Tea Party takes place in Washington DC on April 15th.

Levin went on to say "Every time we have someone on camera saying that Barack Obama isn't an American citizen, we want someone sitting next to him saying, 'That's right, he's an alien from outer space!'" Levin also did not shy away his prior accusations that most tea party supporters are "racists, morons, and homophobes."

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09 Jul 11 - 08:59 AM (#3184280)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

So, Sawz, in other words, you lied???

Uh huh...

Now I'll go back to scrolling past your posts since you have all but admitted to being a liar...

Bye-d-bye...

B~

---

09 Jul 11 - 12:20 PM (#3184414)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Sorry, I stopped following this thread a while back. It's gone pretty far from its beginnings. But I just figured out one of the things about the Tea Party that scares me. Two of their darlings are Sarah Palin, a well-known liar, and Michelle Bachman, who I believe is an oath-breaker and traitor. The Tea Party attitudes that are indicated by their lauding of these two people may not be terrorism, but it is finding the worst amongst us and calling them great. It is an attempt to overthrow the Constitution of the United States by trying to overturn the separation of church and state, and the concept of equal treatment before the law. They are traitors -- which in a way brings us back to the terrorist label.

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12 Jul 11 - 12:24 PM (#3186141)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Michell's husband Mr. Bachman runs a clinic which cures people of the disease of being gay with clinical prayer.

Whats traitorous about that?

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12 Jul 11 - 12:34 PM (#3186147)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Kooky deranged people become leaders of countries all the time.
Most often they do it with the already organized base of some kind of religion.

In Hitler's case they made up a religion and legendary myths after they gained power.

The kooky deranged politicians almost always sound ultra patriotic and kind with the best interests for the people and once in power the scourges and arrests begin.

If you are thinking of ruling out Michelle Bachman or her like,
do not count on it.
What religion as a base does not provide a magority, racists and xenophobes will make up for. (along with new stringent voting priviledge laws which will only effect democratic voters.)

---

13 Jul 11 - 07:58 AM (#3186610)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Poor Bobert is hearing voices again.

Jason Levin, Tea Party crasher's Manifesto:
    First, I'd like to tell you a little about my intellectual evolution over the past 10 years: In Pennsylvania I was a dyed-in-the-wool liberal After moving to California and living in the dessert for a year I was offered a job in the San Francisco Bay Area (right around the time George W. was APPOINTED president by the supreme court). While living in the Bay I experienced an odd sensation. I found that living in a liberal fishbowl did not appeal to me. The fact that everyone thought exactly the same way did not inspire intelligent political discourse. In fact, as a gun owner I learned quickly that there is an orthodoxy to the left that is just as pig-headed and irrational as those on the right So I am No Fan of Nancy Pelosi, or members of her ilk. More than ever, I find myself following the Libertarian tenants of personal responsibility, and choice as the core of freedom In essence, my philosophy revolves around a simple central ideal: True Freedom is the greatest thing a society can offer it's constituents.

    Oregon is the only state in 50 with a right to die law (something I support strongly) and where marijuana is basically legal (something I also support). Basically, Oregon is the Leave Me the Fuck Alon state.

    I was one of the first people I know to posit the theory that we are intentionally fucking up Iraq to destabilize the middle east, and to allow Iran to fight a proxy war with Saudi Arabia. If that is our plan, then I have nothing but respect for those geniuses in the pentagon. We need to sit back and let those bastards kill each other and then have a cold war with the Caliphate that rises from the ashes But if this is indeed the plan, we have already been there too long, and lost too many American lives

    I have absolutely no problem with conservative thought and opinion. The older I get, and closer to having a child the more I see the wisdom of a certain amount of social equilibrium over tumultuous change. But I am not willing to support that equilibrium at the cost of personal individual freedoms. Which brings us to my 10 point manifesto. I believe:

    1. You own your body. If you want to put drugs into it (like weed, heroin, alcohol, or tobacco) you should be free to do so. And it should be taxed. If you want to sell your body, you should be free to do so. And it should be taxed. Both should be regulated (like the food supply) to ensure public safety. Both should be available only to adults. Also if you want to kill yourself, be my guest. It's your body so it's your decision to leave it.

    2. Everyone is free to get married. That goes for a man and a woman, two men, two women, three women and a man, four men and two women, whatever So go ahead and do whatever the hell you want in your own bedroom, as long as the participants are all consenting adults. Oh, and if being Gay is against God's will why does every species on the planet engage in homosexual behavior?

    3. Everyone must be provided with basic healthcare. Universal government sponsored healthcare as a baseline is just as much of a necessity for a thriving society as public schools.

    4. Church and State must remain separate. One of the biggest problems in this country right now is the hijacking of the republican party by right-wing fundamentalists who are convinced that 2000 years ago the Sky Daddy had a baby with a virgin, and for some reason this entitles them to tell the rest of us how to live and what to think.

    5. Which brings us to war and the death penalty I believe that there are some truly evil motherfuckers on this planet who deserve to die. I do not condone attacking a country that had nothing to do with 911, nor do I condone interventionist foreign policy. If Saddam was so evil, why haven't we attacked Kim Jong il? That crazy sonofabitch has nukes!!! Unless someone physically attacks us here on American soil (ala pearl harbor) we should not go to war. But if we do go to war, we need to kick as much ass as is humanly possible. Kill, Maim, Torture, take the gloves way the fuck off! That is how you wage War. This of course, should only be used as a last resort. I also have no moral or ethical problem with the death penalty. The only reason I don't support the death penalty is that I truly believe the judicial system in its current form is too inept to hand down such an such an irreversible punishment.

    6. Which is why I believe citizenship should be earned. Either through military service, public works service, or foreign service (peacecorp, drs. without borders etc.). Only then should you have the right to vote, sit on a jury, or hold public office. Perhaps if these privileges were earned, they would finally be respected.

    7. Politics is NOT a career. Public service is something you do while on hiatus from your regular vocation. You should get elected, serve a term or two, and get the fuck out. Only by adhering to these strict standards can we hope for altruism in our elected officials. Politics is a dirty business and no matter how clean you were when you started, the longer you stay in the dirtier you get. That collective dirt seeps into the gears and inevitably harms the machine as a whole. In addition to serious term limits, we need at least 3 political parties in this country! Having only two has led to a stagnant and polarized system which caters to lobbyists and does not serve the interests of the majority of Americans (most of whom are somewhere in the middle).

    8. Take responsibility for yourself and your actions! If you break it, buy it. If you spill hot coffee in your lap, don't sue McDonalds. Learn that coffee = hot and move on! Thus Loser Pays [court costs] lawsuits should be the rule, as only those with a righteous beef will bring suit.

    9. Corporations need to be subject to the same rules as individuals and should be required to maintain citizenship in this country in order to do business.

    10. Finally, If you don't like what's on the TV or the radio, it has 2 buttons. One to change the channel, and one to turn it OFF. The FCC should not be allowed to regulate content. The only thing they should do is issue licenses to TV stations to avoid a monopoly of media control. News needs to be about information not infotainment. The time was for a TV station to maintain its license they had to air a certain amount of commercial free community oriented programming.

The formerly anonymous creator of crashtheteaparty.org Jason Levin has been publicly outed just days before thousands of Tax Day Tea Party rallies will be taking place nationwide.


Another Member of the Bobert anti Tea party movement?

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14 Jul 11 - 03:47 AM (#3187220)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Thank you, Don, for the 'sad news'. Giorgio was both a great guy, and a wonderful friend, and whose advice I will ALWAYS remember and cherish.
I'll tell my kids, as well.

GfS

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14 Jul 11 - 03:36 PM (#3187646)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST

Ultra patriotism and the BIG LIE are the hallmarks of fascism...

A good read on the subject is Russ Bellant's "Old Nazis, the New Right and the Republican Party"...

Bobert (cookie locked out temporarily by someone who knows all too well what Mr. Bellant is talking about)

B~

---

14 Jul 11 - 08:49 PM (#3187911)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Either way, totalitarianism is the ultimate goal of ANY party!

GfS

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15 Jul 11 - 03:18 PM (#3188389)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Either way, totalitarianism is the ultimate goal of ANY party!

Yeah, I used to go to a lot of parties where the goal was to get totally . . . well, never mind . . .

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15 Jul 11 - 08:49 PM (#3188544)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST

Them were the days, John, P...

Now it's, "Thanks, but I gotta drive..."

BTW, in a true democracy, totalitarianism is never possible... It only becomes possible in a corrupted system and then it is no longer a true democracy...

Bobert (no cookie)

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15 Jul 11 - 09:41 PM (#3188560)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

Bobert...

If you go to "Quick Links" at the top of the page, the first item is "login".

It works just fine.

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15 Jul 11 - 09:52 PM (#3188563)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST

Thanks, pdq... I'll try it...

B~

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15 Jul 11 - 09:53 PM (#3188564)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Worked!!!

B~

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15 Jul 11 - 10:17 PM (#3188574)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

BTW, I have over 70 microscopic Asparagus seedlings between 3 and 4 inches high. Cost of seeds was $3.49. The roots I wanted would have been over $200. No way. An all-male hybrid called UC 72. This year's "garden event".

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15 Jul 11 - 10:21 PM (#3188578)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Not sure how this is related to the Tea Party but, hey... This is Mudcat... lol...

B~

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16 Jul 11 - 05:30 PM (#3189001)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "BTW, in a true democracy, totalitarianism is never possible... It only becomes possible in a corrupted system and then it is no longer a true democracy..."

Then why do you so vigorously support it????????????????????????

GfS

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16 Jul 11 - 07:08 PM (#3189055)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Our society is neither a true democracy nor a totalitarian regime. The jury is still out, and which way it goes depends on US.

So lets get crackin'!

Don Firth

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16 Jul 11 - 08:59 PM (#3189115)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Why doi I support it??? I don't... I am a realist (look it up, GfinS)... We are facing a real honest-to-God push by people who, frankly, would are eat up with fascism and they would be more than happy to end democracy today if it meant that they get to write ***all*** the rules and enforce them the way the see fit... These people, BTW aren't on the left side of the political divide... These are the Tea Party people...

None of their ideas make any sense... None... But they use words like liberty and freedom as their swords and shields... Liberty and freedom are concepts for which these poeple have no understanding...

We want out government back??? W@hat does that mean exactly??? It means absolutely nothing at all... It does not justify one single policy position... It all puff...

We want government out of our lives??? Okay, what do they mean here??? Nothing at all... When the flood hits they can't get enough government... When their great aunt goes into the nursing home, they can't get enough government.... When it comes to a woman's right to choose, they can't get enough government...

If one studies Germany in the 1930's it is amazing just how many things the Nazis said that are now coming out of the Tea party's mouths... But these people don't want to study Germany in the 1930s for 2 reasons:

First, they don't read much and that explains just how poorly they are at understanding basic economics, history, government, etc but more importantly they don't want to know the truth about their own tactics and policy positions...

Noraml...

Bob

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17 Jul 11 - 06:40 PM (#3189700)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Judging from reading your post,..or trying to read your post...you might want to lay off the sauce....unless, of course, that was intentional...then that would explain your views, as not being able to differentiate the WHOLE of what has happened to our government, and how you seem to exclude the Democrats, as having ANY part of its being fucked up!...It just defies gravity, that somehow, someway you can't, don't or refuse to see that! And yes, you had it right earlier, when you pointed to the corruption(finally)! Who do you think they are going to listen to...YOU???(or us)..or a globalist banker lobbyist waving a profitable 'pay-off' in front of their noses??!!

GfS

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17 Jul 11 - 08:35 PM (#3189745)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

It's called "Reality Sauce", GfinS...

Google up Germany 1930s and read it all for yourself...

History repeats itself...

B~

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17 Jul 11 - 08:52 PM (#3189750)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well if your likening Obama with Adolf, then I see your point, all to well....Do you????????????????

GfS

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17 Jul 11 - 10:18 PM (#3189771)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

That, GfS, is contemptible!

Don Firth

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18 Jul 11 - 07:27 AM (#3189944)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Not at all, Don.....actually, come to think of it, you might have a point there, but it doesn't mean what I see isn't true!...but from a National Socialist Party's standpoint, as a lot of far leaning 'lefty' devotees, who support(ed) either one, I'm sure they haven't really taken a real good look at the similarities...or themselves in it!..And of all people, you! Bobert is just spouting the regular non-thinking party line..but you...of all people....let me ask you just one thing..OK?...How many governments and/or forms of governments, has Germany/Austria had since Beethoven???...Which has out-lived the other??
As I've said on, now numerous occasions, 'I'm not with the party, I'm with the band!'

Now, reach deep:.....
Oh yeah, and another thing...to be 'leaning to the left', you must be sitting on the 'right'......but most 'lefties' can't see that, either.
..Oh, and you might consider just one more thing....Is Obama, as Bush, just a shill for the mega-corporate/international bankers...and another thing, can you, for the life of me, explain the difference, between belonging to an all controlling corporation, and being a member of a co-op in the Communist Party?
Just who is 'zooming' who?? ....and what exactly is the difference between political 'bureaucrats' and the 'politburo'???...'cuz we sure are filled up with them!
........But, the 'liberal left', AND the 'far right', have been blinded by ideological rhetoric to accurately see what they really are.....but wasn't that the point?

Before your head explodes, AGAIN...think about it.............THIS TIME!

GfS
"Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn!"

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18 Jul 11 - 08:50 AM (#3189981)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

"Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn!"

The actual line was 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.'

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18 Jul 11 - 12:09 PM (#3190086)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Thank you, 'Guest 999'. I'm always up for accuracy!

GfS

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18 Jul 11 - 02:06 PM (#3190152)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

I'm always up for accuracy! GfS

I haven't laughed so hard in a long, long time.

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18 Jul 11 - 02:30 PM (#3190166)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Who cares? Did you find your mirror?

GfS

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18 Jul 11 - 07:09 PM (#3190342)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

GfS, do you actually have a clue as to what the differences are between the misnamed National "Socialist" Party (nothing socialist about it, it was a fascist party) and what is generally referred to (very loosely) as that catch-all term that the politically bewildered are fond of using, "the Liberal Left?"

It doesn't look like it!

Don Firth

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18 Jul 11 - 08:57 PM (#3190385)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

What Don said...

B~

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18 Jul 11 - 09:22 PM (#3190393)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

No offence to anyone, but it's too hot for this shit.

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18 Jul 11 - 10:17 PM (#3190419)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

It is a corporate paradise in Tea Party heaven.
$2 or less an hour jobs right here in the good ol US of A.
That is a savings compared to shipping from China.

In Tea Party HEaven Sates Rights would rule and the only Federal Government is the Dept of Defense, which argualby is a safety program but will be tolerated to satisfy arms dealers.

In Tea Party Heaven, The States would control education and the roads. Checkpoints would be built to keep out outside agitators.
They would make a profit by confiscating forbidden items such as food clothing and large quantites of cash.

In Tea Party Heaven you birth certificate might not be accepted if you try to enter Kansas, especailly if you were born in NYC.

In Tea Party heaven you are not your brother's keeper. If someone keeps over in front of you it is their responsibility to pull themselves up by their own boot straps. If it happens to be you, Jesus will save you.

In Tea Party Heaven you could elect your own President, since some States are composed of people who are not real Americans.

In Tea Party Heaven if your State has a nuclear weapon facility you will have authority over its use, expecially if you have a general in the DOD from your own State.

In Tea Party Heaven, everyone will get what they deserve by the fruits of their own labor, slave labor, wage slavery or trafficking in illegals.

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19 Jul 11 - 08:34 AM (#3190588)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don: "GfS, do you actually have a clue as to what the differences are between the misnamed National "Socialist" Party (nothing socialist about it, it was a fascist party) and what is generally referred to (very loosely) as that catch-all term that the politically bewildered are fond of using, "the Liberal Left?""

Don, It's ALL bullshit! We DON"T need ANY of it! ALL of them are a bludgeon to our liberties and freedoms, regardless of their so-called 'promises'!....BTW, you seemed to ignore my comment on Beethoven's music outlasting a slew of different forms of government in Germany/Austria. I think that is a great model for bullshit coming and going...and only causing heartache, grief, and millions of deaths. Perhaps, the raising of intelligence (which, of course, political manipulators abhor), and the freedom of thought, that comes with it, might do a lot better for the world, than some bunch of manipulating 'control freaks' forcing people to support utter folly, would serve mankind a lot better....than the struggle of which 'political tyranny' should be combating each other!
FUCK 'ISMS'!!!

GfS

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19 Jul 11 - 09:01 AM (#3190603)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Talk about posting while sauced???

BTW, just for the record, the incoming Tea Partiers in the House is not only the richest freshman class but the only one with an *average* net worth of $1.5M...

These people are just rich people who don't want to pay their far share... In other words, they are deadbeats and free loaders using their redneck pawns as their "brown shirts"...

One can say that its the same on the other side of the political divide but that's about all they are doing; "saying it"... Problem is that saying it is propagating what Hitler referred to as THE BIG LIE...

B~

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19 Jul 11 - 10:57 AM (#3190671)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Stringsinger

There is a conservative religious dimension to this dementia. Bachmann is exhibit A. The Tea-o-cratic Party is not all Grover Norquist, cutting everything aside. Karl Rove has been whistling "Onward Christian Soldiers" for years. "Place your hand on the bible and repeat after me, 'no taxes' but ok to tithe if you want. Corporate tithing is also accepted by Visa and Mastercard.
    SCOTUS is amply represented by the Tea-o-crats. Whose calling the shots here? Roberts, Scalita or god?

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19 Jul 11 - 11:18 AM (#3190690)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Not at all sure, Strings, why you are referring to ther Tea Party as Tea-o-crats because that implies they are part of the Demo"crats" as opposed to the reality that they are the right flank of the Republican Party...

B~

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19 Jul 11 - 11:29 AM (#3190698)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "In other words, they are deadbeats and free loaders using their redneck pawns as their "brown shirts"..."

Are you talking about the fraudulant welfare roles, or the bureaucrats who run it?

GfS

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19 Jul 11 - 12:51 PM (#3190757)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I'm talking about the radical and rabid ideologues that the Koch brothers (air polluters, water poisoners) and Dick Armey (health insurance lobby) spent 100s of Million$$$ of $$$ organizing into their own block of influence commonly known as the Tea Party...

Google up Koch bothers and/or Freedom Works and see for yerself what corporations are using these people to keep the mean ol' gov-mint from being able to prevent them from rippin' the American people off... The New Yorker magazine wrote an very extensive article on the Koch brothers involvement...

Here's the kicker... Hundred of "community organizers" (horrors, not community organizers...lol) were hired, offices rented, printing companies, bus companies, etc all paid for by these guys...

Give me the $$$ that they spent buying the Tea Party and I would have an army of progressives elected, too... The reality is that 90% the money is held by those on the right... Progressives tend to be much better educated but not all that wealthy... That's why out country is in trouble... The rich flat out don't want to pay their fair share so they buy up large chunks of Congress and stack the deck... It's called Reaganomics... The Fall of '08 should have alerted the American people to the game but before the American people could get it sorted out the big PR $$$'s were already being deployed to spread anti-Obama/anti-government propaganda...

And that's the way it is...

B~

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19 Jul 11 - 01:53 PM (#3190801)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

GfS:   "BTW, you seemed to ignore my comment on Beethoven's music outlasting a slew of different forms of government…."

Because it's totally irrelevant to the discussion. And I'm sorry to say, the rest of your post is incoherent.

Don Firth

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19 Jul 11 - 02:10 PM (#3190817)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Speaking of "radical and rabid ideologues", Here is another chapter for Bobert's hate and fear-mongering stinkb... er thread.

A Left Wing Terrorist Attack:

On February 18, 2010, Andrew Joseph Stack III flew his airplane into the IRS building in Austin, TX killing one other person and injuring many more in an act of lone wolf terrorism. He cited many reasons for his grievance against the government of the United States as well as other facets of the country such as bailout of financial institutions, politicians in general, conglomerate companies of General Motors, Enron and Arthur Andersen, labor unions, drug and health care insurance companies, and the Catholic Church. He added a meeting with a poor widow who never got pension benefits she was promised, the effect of the Tax Reform Act of 1986 on engineers, the September 11 attacks airline bailouts that only benefited the airlines but not the suffering engineers, how a Certified Public Accountant he hired seemed to side with the government to take extra tax money from him, criticism of the FAA and the George W. Bush administration were reasons.

Left Wing comments in his manifesto/suicide note:

"the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year"
"the political 'representatives' (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the terrible health care problem"
"the wonderful [tax] 'exemptions' that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy."
"I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie"
"thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities"
"the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies"
"a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years)"
"presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government"
The above sentiments from Obama campaign speeches evidently fired up this man's hatred of GWB.

How the drooling lefties viciously and frantically try to pin it on the Tea Party which Stack had nothing to do with:

A Facebook page was established for Joseph Andrew Stack. It was built with every symbol of the tea party movement you could find. It appears the site was not built by Stack, but by an impostor hoping to destroy the tea party movement named Emily Walters

"Finally an American man took a stand against our tyrannical government that no longer follows the Constitution," wrote Emily Walters of Louisville, Ky.

Walters, member of Americans Against the Tea Party, was one of at least two dozen people who founded Facebook fan groups to hail the homicidal pilot.

Most had only a tiny handful of members, but hers attracted more than 200 before Facebook removed it. Emily Walters has apparently released a statement. Somehow, this deranged girl thinks that misrepresenting a dead man and the Tea Party is all about her free speech. Facebook removed the fake Stack Facebook account she created and her account so she has had her boyfriend open another Fake Stack Facebook account

This is Emily Walters. Im really disappointed about the way the facebook page was portrayed. It was intended to get opinions, not to suggest that Joseph Stack was a member of the Tea Party. Thank you.

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19 Jul 11 - 03:30 PM (#3190877)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Now, THERE, ladies and gentlemen, is a STINK BOMB!

Don Firth

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19 Jul 11 - 05:00 PM (#3190941)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

No, there's a pile of bullshit. But it DOES stink.

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19 Jul 11 - 07:23 PM (#3191038)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Only stinks if you bother to read it... I just scroll on by... He's not worth my time... He has totally marginalized himself...

Yawn...

B~

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19 Jul 11 - 07:48 PM (#3191046)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Stack was obviously and ill tempered nut job who thinks tearing things down is better than doing the hard work for the betterment of society. He may not have been an official member of the Tea Party. But he sure was living the lifestyle.

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20 Jul 11 - 12:40 AM (#3191149)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I didn't actually bother to read it, Bobert. All I needed was to glance at the boldface headings to see that it was just another Sawzaw cut'n'paste job.

But it did confirm that Sawzaw has the full run of degrees:   BS, MS, and PhD.

We all know what BS is. MS stands for "More of the Same." And PhD stands for "Piled higher and Deeper."

Past my bedtime. Nighty-night, all.

Don Firth

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20 Jul 11 - 02:42 AM (#3191168)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don: "Because it's totally irrelevant to the discussion. And I'm sorry to say, the rest of your post is incoherent."

Horse shit! You are avoiding the real issue!

Donuel: "It is a corporate paradise in Tea Party heaven.
$2 or less an hour jobs right here in the good ol US of A.
That is a savings compared to shipping from China."

Hmm Democratic heaven..at least the unemployment went down!

"In Tea Party HEaven Sates Rights would rule and the only Federal Government is the Dept of Defense, which argualby is a safety program but will be tolerated to satisfy arms dealers."

Isn't that what the Democrats want??

"In Tea Party Heaven, The States would control education and the roads. Checkpoints would be built to keep out outside agitators.
They would make a profit by confiscating forbidden items such as food clothing and large quantites of cash."

Federal funding for an ever expanding government PLUS more government workers....Democrat bliss!

"In Tea Party Heaven you birth certificate might not be accepted if you try to enter Kansas, especailly if you were born in NYC."

"Oh Toto, were not in Kansas anymore," That was a dumb one anyway, Donuel! Who wants to go to Kansas, anyway?

"In Tea Party heaven you are not your brother's keeper. If someone keeps over in front of you it is their responsibility to pull themselves up by their own boot straps. If it happens to be you, Jesus will save you."

No, you'd rather have the state come in and help you, after all, you are 'entitled'!

"In Tea Party Heaven you could elect your own President, since some States are composed of people who are not real Americans."

Obama??? I thought he was a Democrat!

"In Tea Party Heaven if your State has a nuclear weapon facility you will have authority over its use, expecially if you have a general in the DOD from your own State."

In a Democratic state, the State is everywhere doing everything..including telling you what to think...as evident by this post..which has your head turned around..like Don's. He needs to see what THIS administration has done that is IDENTICAL to pre-WWII Germany.....but he has 'redefined' the obvious, just to fit into his squawking points..fed to him by 'Baghdad Bobert'

"In Tea Party Heaven, everyone will get what they deserve by the fruits of their own labor, slave labor, wage slavery or trafficking in illegals."

What illegals??? I thought the Democrats, like Republicans, like bought out globalists don't recognize borders.....except one corporation to another....with the World bank and monetary fund globalists as the 'new' Federal Central government!!!

......and fuck the Tea party TOO!

They come, and they go.....but great music, such as Beethoven, goes on..and on, 'Dingle-berry Don'!

Why aren't you doing great music, instead of this political carousel ride?..going round and around!

GfS

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20 Jul 11 - 03:42 AM (#3191187)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

..but then, maybe I'm dealing with this..on Mudcat...

..and this...judging from some of the posts, as of recent....

GfS

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20 Jul 11 - 09:00 AM (#3191339)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

IF a group of domestic terrorists attacked the US financially and cost the US 7 trillion dollars of damage in higher interest and default penalties, with no infrastructure or jobs to show for the money, it would be an act of treason by enemies of the uS.

The Tea party caucus in the house are perilously close to commiting such an attack by voting to not pay our debt.

If a terrorist attack the US this way out of ignorance or malice, the damage is done and a crime has been commited.

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20 Jul 11 - 11:03 AM (#3191401)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I quite agree, Donuel....

These people represent about 15% (20% tops) yet have this dictatorial attitude that they have 100% backing of the American people... In mental health this would fall squarely in the schizophrenic "illusions of grandeur" category...

Yes, they are terrorist on many levels but trying to kill off the American economy is exactly what Osama bib Laden & Co. have always held as the #1 goal...

B~

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20 Jul 11 - 11:14 AM (#3191407)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Tea party enthusiasm:

Hey, we may not have majority power but we have power to stop delay or ignor anything in the Federal Government, this thing is fuckin golden. We are not going to let this thing go for free. We are gonna make history doing the things we promised to do...

which is stop, delay or ignor the business of the Federal Gov.

We vow to not believe anything we are told in Washington, We pledge to obey every pledge we are given by Norquist and people of faith no matter what. Our pledges supercede the CONstitutin of the USA.


Then were gonna blame it all on the liar do nothing President and get a white man back in the White House, after we sanitize it, ha ha ha! And if that doesn't work we can shoot em. HAHAHAHA~

Amen

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20 Jul 11 - 01:37 PM (#3191482)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I'm not avoiding ANYTHING, GfS.

What, to you, is the "real issue?" Beethoven or the Tea Party?

Like I said, incoherent.

Don Firth

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20 Jul 11 - 02:50 PM (#3191526)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

GfS, the stuff on YouTube that you linked to is exactly what I'm complaining about—among other things. INCLUDING your abysmal lack of knowledge of political philosophies and political systems.

Thomas Jefferson is credited with saying "an educated and informed electorate is essential to the preservation of Democracy," or words to that effect. There are many variations on this statement because he spoke on this theme many times.

Although it's interesting to note that (despite being able to cite Jefferson's personal letters and texts of speeches), there are a number of Right-Wing blogs and web sites that claim Jefferson never said any of this. It sounds like, by denying this, they are FOR being ignorant and ill-informed (which may explain Fox News), and they go on to claim that all he talked about was to keep business free from government regulation (actually, an excerpt from speeches by Ronald Reagan) and to preserve the people's "right to bear arms," (right out of the NRA brochure). In an effort to try to support their aims, the Right-Wing has to rewrite one helluva lot of history.

YOU may be a one-trick pony, GfS, but others of us can make music AND keep ourselves politically informed and aware, AND be politically active and engaged—all at the same time.

Go read a book. Several books. I would suggest you begin with First Democracy:   The Challenge of an Ancient Idea, by Paul Woodruff. Read the WHOLE THING. It will prepare you for Woodruff's final chapter, "Are Americans Ready for Democracy?'

Fer Chissake, EDUCATE youself before you start popping off and you might not come off sounding so much like a twit!

Don Firth

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20 Jul 11 - 03:17 PM (#3191542)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

"Membership and demographics

Several polls have been conducted on the demographics of the movement. Though the various polls sometimes turn up slightly different results, they tend to show that Tea Party supporters are mainly white and slightly more likely to be male, married, older than 45, more conservative than the general population, and likely to be more wealthy and have more education.[68][69][70][71][72]

One Gallup poll found that other than gender, income and politics, self-described Tea Party members were demographically similar to the population as a whole.[73]

When surveying supporters or participants of the Tea Party movement, polls have shown that they are to a very great extent more likely to be registered Republican, have a favorable opinion of the Republican Party and an unfavorable opinion of the Democratic Party.[72][74][75] The Bloomberg National Poll of adults 18 and over showed that 40% of Tea Party supporters are 55 or older, compared with 32% of all poll respondents; 79% are white, 61% are men and 44% identify as "born-again" Christians,[76] compared with 75%,[77] 48.5%,[78] and 34%[79] for the general population, respectively."

Wikipedia

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20 Jul 11 - 04:44 PM (#3191611)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

What a bunch of desperate 'blah-blah' double talk!!! Look, I'm not 'defending' the Tea Party..frankly, they are a re-active backlash, to the 'ruling class' corrupted, WASTEFUL, lying, spending spree of the last few administrations, run by the international mega-corps, and bankers who have bought off our politicians. ANY nitwit can see that!..its just that both sides of this circus keep the focus, OFF the real problem, and onto the partisan 'differences'...that THEY create in your minds!.......in 2006, when voting on raising the debt ceiling, Obama, Reid, Shumer, Clinton, Pelosi, Durbin...and ALL of the Democratic house, voted NOT to raise the ceiling...now they are all campaigning to raise it....sounds a little fishy to me! On the other hand, the Republicans were all voting FOR raising it. Here comes the 'Tea Party', and an overwhelming Conservative landslide, in the last election, as a mandate to control spending and NOT raise taxes, and once again, the 'ruling class' of career politicians, on both sides, turn a deaf ear to the will of the people, and are now engaged in this phony rhetoric, of trying to figure out, how to tell Americans, politely, how to bend over, and take it in the rear, as if we have NO other choices, than the ones they bullshit us, are the only ones!!

The absolute utter nonsense crap some of you are spouting about the Tea Party, is the exact same crap the 'far right' was using against the Bill Clinton regime..in which firearms sales went through the roof!.....almost word for word!!!

So now, through emotional manipulations, through the press, Americans are all looking across at each other thinking that everybody 'else' is their mortal enemies! This is absolute rubbish!..Meanwhile, the REAL villains must be laughing up their sleeves, all the way to corporate headquarters, of their favorite bank they own, confident that a LOT of very stupid people out there, have NO CLUE, as to how to address the REAL problem: THEM!...and instead, all we get is a bunch of indoctrinated blowhards trying to sound profoundly wise..and intellectually astute, in the garbage they've thrown at you to pontificate about!!!!

In the nineties, it was the 'liberal' Democrats who were the 'terrorists'..in the 2000's, it was the Republicans, now its the Tea Partiers.....jeez, get a fucking clue!!...Meanwhile, we are, "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy and the Big Fool Says to Push On"....and you think/thought they're talkin' about someone else!!!!...I cannot bring myself around to totally believe that people are so fucking stupid, as not to clock this!!

Being as the biggest part of the deficit is the interest on the 'loans', why not get the people who manipulate the loans and interest on them to 'make the sacrifice'????....It's all just pre-fab, greed, corruption, and power plays...and NOT for OUR best interests! Bush, Clinton, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Biden, Romney, Frank, Dodd, Mitchell and MORE are just their shills!!..Isn't that patently obvious to you by now?? ...or are you going to claim a learning disability, under the 'Stupidity Act'???

And I thought that music is said to stimulate more neurons in the brain than ANY other activity on the planet.......maybe some of you should try learning a fourth chord!!!

GfS

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20 Jul 11 - 04:52 PM (#3191617)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Here, even kids have more brains.....

Here, activate a brain cell

GfS

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20 Jul 11 - 05:10 PM (#3191627)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

As long as you are stuck on the "both sides" Repub-speak, GfinS, all you are doing is parroting exactly what the Repubs wnat you to say... It gives them cover from their real motives which plainly are to disassemble the New Deal, one piece at a time... That has been the goal of the rich and the right going back all the way to when FDR got those pieces put in place...

And there is a very good reason why the rich want to do this... Their perfect strom is no unions, no social security, no medicare, no safety nets and no laws preventing them from oppressing the working class... These goals have been passed down from generation to generation and right now they have their best chance in 60 years and they are pushing hard... They have bought congress and the supreme court and now they are out to buy a country where they write all the rules and have all the money...

They aren't that far from that and the Tea Party is their sword and shield right now with the rest of the Republican Party right behind...

And they are using some of the very same tactics that the Nazi's used... If you bothered to study history you would see what a lot of us are telling you... Until you drop the "both side" Repub speak and mentality you will not be free to see things for yourself but stuck in the Repub spin turbine...

B~

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20 Jul 11 - 05:47 PM (#3191652)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

The Italian trio is marvelous, GfS!!!

As for your previous post to that, GfS, right on the money.

You're the one who doesn't get it, Bobert, because you are trapped in the old "us and them" 2-party mythology. Your intentions are excellent, but your thinking is out of date. Both your major parties are serving the rich elite and they are both intent on demolishing social security, wrecking the trade unions, taking away the social safety net, removing your civil rights, betraying your Constitution, giving away medicare to the rich medical elites, drug companies, and private health insurers, fighting foreign wars, serving the richest 1% of society and exploiting the rest. They use the 2-party system and its phony propaganda to divide and conquer the public. You throw own party out after 8 years of idiocy and corruption...the other one comes in...and the idiocy and corruption just goes on. Presently you throw that party out and the previous one returns to office...and the idiocy and corruption just goes on.

Why? Because it was planned that way, that's why. Obama won't save you. He doesn't work for you. He works for the rich elites, same as Bush did. The next guy (or gal) after Obama won't save you either.

What can you do about it? Damned if I know! What could an individual German of wisdom and conscience do after 1933? Not bloody much, except maybe leave the country like Marlene Dietrich did. So I won't advise you what to do, because if it was me I would leave the USA and go somewhere else. (And there are plenty of Americans I know living in Canada who have done just that.) But I doubt you want to leave. After all, you were born there...and ties are strong to the land of one's birth, as I well know. It takes a lot to walk away from your own country.

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20 Jul 11 - 06:17 PM (#3191666)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Why THANK YOU, Little Hawk...for a while I was beginning to think that the Mudcat forum was void of any common sense,(other than my own, of course!).
Ex-Pres. Nixon was right about one thing....."This will all blow over soon. The American public has the attention span of about two weeks!"

GfS

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20 Jul 11 - 06:18 PM (#3191667)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Jon

You mean it is different in Canada, LH?

Personally, I don't see the UK as different. Our two main parties do differ in that one pulls harder than the other but they both pull in the same direction.

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20 Jul 11 - 06:25 PM (#3191670)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

I very seldom post on the political threads anymore, GfS, because they are like a toxic tarpit...very easy to get trapped in...and full of illwill, hostility, and other negative emotional stuff that can only make one's day a little worse than it might have been if one hadn't bothered stepping in in the first place.

Basically a waste of one's time and energy. People come to vent at each other, that's all, and to "prove" how righteously superior they are to anyone who doesn't agree with them. I can't see how it would benefit anyone's life getting drawn into such hostile discussions.

But I did like what you had to say, and I loved the Italian trio, so I thought I'd comment on those briefly.

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20 Jul 11 - 06:34 PM (#3191676)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

Jon - The political parties in Canada are the same basic deal as in the UK...they serve entrenched special interests (the rich), not the general public. The prevailing social system, though, is considerably saner, kinder, and more rational than is the case in the USA. I think that's simply a fortunate after-effect of a kinder, more reasonable social history in Canada in the last 200 years. It's positive inertia carring on from the past. It certainly isn't due to the spotless morals of our corrupted political parties! ;-)

The public in Canada, for instance, already expects and insists upon a universal health care system, takes it for granted as a normal civil right, and the politicians know it. Therefore they can't demonize it as "socialism" and they don't dare dismantle it.

That's not the case in the USA, where they CAN demonize it as socialism, and where they've never had it.

Canadians are protected merely by the fact that we have had a strong history of progressive social legislation in place already, and it's very hard for our corrupt political parties to tear it down now that people are used to it.

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20 Jul 11 - 06:50 PM (#3191686)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

For the longest while, I too, got out of the political bickering, because the measure of the rhetoric being tossed back and forth, was equal to the utter ignorance, of the poster...especially when it came to 'partisan folly-blather'! It's like they are retarded and proud of it!...and just keep digging their pit of block-headed stupidity, and think they will be admired for the depth of the hole, they dug, even when they can't seem to dig their way out..by frantically digging faster...(like borrowing and gambling to get out of a gambling debt!)..not unlike our present administration! Problem is, once you submit and subject yourself to someone for a 'blessing' they are promising...you also submit and subject yourself to their 'curse', as well! That's what you get for submitting and subjecting yourself to the 'lesser of to EVILS'!!!

BTW, it was both Don and Baghdad Bob 'Lim-bert' who advised me to vote for the lesser of the two evils, in earlier posts! RUBBISH!!

GfS

P.S. Shit, maybe I should move to Canada, and crash in on ya'!

---

20 Jul 11 - 07:01 PM (#3191687)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Get a room u 2!!

---

20 Jul 11 - 07:21 PM (#3191698)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, neither of you get it, GfinS and LH...

You want to play the 2000 Nader fight song over and over and over... Hey, look, I was a precinct leader for Nader in 2000... I know the song... The song no longer works... It is hopelessly passe and does not recognize the assault that the Repubs are trying to pull on the working class...

I'm not saying the Dems are all that great... I am suggesting that they are, at least for now, all we have to stand up to the right wing...

But ya'll go on with your duet even if every verse sounds a little worse than the last... If this were the gong show ya'll woulda gotten the hook long ago...

BTW, this is 2011... Not 2000... Not '96... Not 92... Not your grandfather's fucking Oldsmobile...

"And then they came for me"...

B~

---

20 Jul 11 - 07:38 PM (#3191705)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

GfS: I think the following needs amendment, because were it so, there wouldn't be such a preponderance of Republicans IN the TP (which stands for tea party (or toilet paper)).

"Look, I'm not 'defending' the Tea Party..frankly, they are a re-active backlash, to the 'ruling class' corrupted, WASTEFUL, lying, spending spree of the last few administrations, run by the international mega-corps, and bankers who have bought off our politicians."

---

20 Jul 11 - 07:39 PM (#3191706)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

As an aside, it's too freaking hot to argue.

---

20 Jul 11 - 08:30 PM (#3191723)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

Yeah, that's for sure, 999. ;-D

Jack seems to be troubled by the fact that there are 2 people on a political thread who actually like each other! I admit it's a rare thing....highly unconventional...quite suspicious really! We should be fighting tooth and nail with one another and hurling personal insults in order to maintain the sweet and tolerant forms of communication to which most of these threads are devoted...

Bobert, I don't think for a moment that Ralph Nader will save you either. No third or fourth party is going to rescue Americans from the Big Two parties. Not a chance. A third party only syphons off enough votes from one of the Big Two so that the other can win handily, and that's no solution to anything.

So, nope, Bobert...I'm not suggesting you back Ralph Nader! I'm saying that there IS no solution to the political mess in the USA, and that if I lived there I'd be looking very seriously for some other place to live in, provided I could find work there. I'd get out, just like Marlene Dietrich got out of Nazi Germany.

There is, in my opinion, no political party that's going to turn things around in the USA, because the corruption of your political system has passed the point of no return, just as it once did in Imperial Rome.

But...it is, naturally, incument upon those of you who still think you can reform that system from within to give it the best shot you can. Fine with me. I wish you all the luck in the world. It's your country, so you might as well try, right?

---

20 Jul 11 - 08:31 PM (#3191725)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

And, for the record, th3e Tea Party is not some romanticized backlash to corporatization... They are dupes and pawns for the corporatists...

So get over that little BIG LIE...

The Koch bhrothers and the insurance companies pulled together and spent hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes...

That, GfinS, is the real deal here... The Tea Party ain't Robin Hood... They are corporate Goons... Look goons up in context of history...

B~

---

20 Jul 11 - 08:46 PM (#3191734)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

no lh, You two definitely are saying things to each other which should be kept between you. No one here want to see those lip prints on your butt.

---

20 Jul 11 - 08:52 PM (#3191735)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

Bobert, "big government" is the presumed enemy of the kind of people who rally to something like the Tea Party, is it not?

And big government is in fact admirably serving the purposes OF the large banks and the biggest corporations who loooooove Big Government, because they control it with their money, and it allows them to make a lot more money.

The ordinary people who are attracted to a protest movement like the Tea Party imagine themselves to be taking on Washington, don't they?

And Washington is a city dominated by corporate lobbyists and Wall Street.

I think the ordinary people who are attracted to the Tea Party are indeed dupes and pawns for a corporate agenda, but they have no idea that they are. They think they're fighting for the old traditional America of small towns, Ozzie and Harriet, Little House on the Prairie, the local church, etc., but they're simply being used to help divide the public along ever more extreme lines of partisan rhetoric.

Many idealistic people on the Left are being used the same way by turning their anger against people like the Tea Party or Sarah Palin or some other easily visible "enemy". Two sets of easily manipulated and very emotional and righteous dupes on the Right and the Left thus turn their anger on each other while the banks and corporations (who are really apolitical as well as completely ammoral) cash in on the gridlock and confusion that follows, the government passes the regressive legislation they want, and their money-making agenda goes forward.

The way the crooks at the top win is, they divide the public against each other, they push hot emotional trigger issues like "gay marriage", "right to life", etc., they play the race card, the gay card, the patriotism card, the gender card, the terrorism card, the ethnic card, whatever gets people REALLY scared, divided, and upset with one another, they send the public out to fight with each other over all that stuff, and they win by default while people are screaming in each other's faces and ridiculing each other. One part of the public then blames the other part for what happened, and the game goes on, and on, and on. The rich elite wins. Everyone else loses.

This happens in Canada too, but in a much more muted fashion, and more gradually, because things are less volatile here.

---

20 Jul 11 - 08:56 PM (#3191737)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

You're being silly, Jack. ;-) GfS doesn't even slightly resemble the image you are carrying in your mind.

---

20 Jul 11 - 08:57 PM (#3191740)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yup, seems as if we have a couple of wackos, that much is for sure...

If they had been in the band on the Titanic they would be planning what key the next song was to be in as the boat was going down...

"Classless and free" is what John Lennon penned about folks who like to pontificate and put themselves out there as the intellectuals while "castles burned"...

"all fuckin' peasants as far as I can see"...

Yup... Seems as they missed all the times when Nader had it nailed and now when there is the largest push to take down the New Deal in our lifetimes they still want to play old games and sing songs that are dated and stale and don't represent the here-and-now...

Now don't get me wrong... I like both of these wackos... I truly do... Doesn't change their wacko status in my book until they quit parroting Republican propaganda...

B~

---

20 Jul 11 - 09:19 PM (#3191744)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I was going to recommend a couple of other books, GfS, in an effort to help you keep from making a total ass of yourself, but I can see now that--well--that ain't gonna happen.

By the way, the kids are pretty good.

And Little Hawk:   You're doing it again.

You guys are totally beyond hope. Never mind. Not worth the bother.

Don Firth

---

21 Jul 11 - 01:38 AM (#3191812)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Baghdad Bob-Lim-bert": "The Koch bhrothers and the insurance companies pulled together and spent hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."

And Soros on the left,..pulled together and spent hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
the Rockefellers on both sides, pulled together and spent hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
(Do you actually think they put YOU over the needs of the Rockefeller family treasure chest???... Carlyle group, both sides,pulled together and spent hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
... Mr.and Mrs. James Carville, Democrat stratagist, (married to Mary Matalin, Republican statagist) both sides, pulled together and spent hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
..I bet they don't argue about what new bullshit they come up with,..as they collect from their 'contributors', ..Immelt, (G.E.)who skips paying taxes, while promoting, tax INCREASES for us, and while actually conning the Democraps to support raising taxes..EXCEPT FOR HIS, pulled together and spent hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
Monsanto, who backs every 'left' legislation to limit the public from having access to real food, or growing it, while they genetically engineer both a food monopoly, and unhealthy food, and seeds that do not grow, for the public, pulled together and spent hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
...Bill and Hilary Clinton, who belong to the same financial group, as the Bush's pulled together and spent hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
...Newt Gingrich, of Goldman Sachs, pulled together and spent hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
... Biden, who was the author of the 'Patriot Act', got others to spend hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
....Pelosi, the crooked bitch whose husband deals in processing home foreclosures, MADE hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
...Al Gore, who made over $500 million on HIS farcical version of 'Global Warming', while at the same time uses up huge amounts of power to 'light' his humble abode and fuel his private jets, to speak to numbskulls about 'conserving energy, and cap and trade' bullshit MADE hundreds of million$$$ organizing these dupes..."
....need I go on????? .....

..and all the while, a bunch of dumb lackeys, become self appointed 'experts', and peddle their bull-crap FOR THEM????..YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME???? You stand there with you shovel in hand, and tell ME, that I'm deluded??????!!!! ..Just keep digging faster. Maybe you'll dig to 'Nirvana', somewhere in China, where you couldn't even get away with such imbecilic behavior....OOOPS, I nearly forgot, I'm insulting your political 'model'.

Oh well, I guess its true....you can't teach an old dog new tricks...or in some of your cases, 'You can lead a horse(or pig) to water, but you can't make it play a banjo!'

Don't you just LOVE how their guy Obama got the 'stimulus' package signed, and the mega-corps are holding the money, unemployment has never come down, we pay the interest on the loans, for that money....and the moronic imbeciles, drag their knuckles on the ground muttering, "Well it would have been much worse, if he didn't get that bill through"....and to top it off, you want to be seen as an astute 'expert' on the subject!!??!!...only because you heard some clown pundit say that on one of the mega-corp owned 'news' commentaries?!?
Talk about DUPES!!!! It's down right pathetic....only Monty Python could come up with something, that could resemble more of a parody, of 'stupid'!!!

OK..Your turn....try outdoing embarrassing yourselves....there is a hole waiting for you to dig!!!

GfS

So go support you most recent folly....in a couple of years, you'll be spouting just the opposite side of the coin....if there is any left, to split.

---

21 Jul 11 - 01:44 AM (#3191813)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Here, try this out!   .....at least you won't be able to hurt yourselves!

GfS

---

21 Jul 11 - 01:46 AM (#3191814)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Really kind of sad.

Some time back, the shaft on the propellor beanie that GfS was wearing came loose and it screwed itself into his head, inadvertently giving him a lobotomy.

That explains a lot.

Don Firth

---

21 Jul 11 - 02:06 AM (#3191815)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don: "Some time back, the shaft on the propellor beanie that GfS was wearing came loose and it screwed itself into HIS head, inadvertently giving HIM a lobotomy."

....and Baghdad Bob-Lim-Bert says I'm a 'SHE'.....now you two figure out which of you to is completely out of their mind. Let me know, when you astute judges of in depth insight, come to an agreement...until then, I'll just watch the steam rise in the horizon, while you two fry your brains...probably with beanie propellers.

Jeez,..and that's the BEST he could do. Hey!!!..try thinking about what I posted to you, and stop feigning 'incomprehension'...I thought you thought higher of your intelligence!

GfS

---

21 Jul 11 - 04:18 AM (#3191842)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

I don't know why anyone would was to argue with a vacationer from sanity.

Anyone who argues that the Tea Party is anything but a rebranding of the worst elements of the GOP is playing the fool and is a dupe themselves.

---

21 Jul 11 - 08:15 AM (#3191921)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Does anybody here like the music of David Allan Coe?

I do. I recently heard his newer recording of Death Row with the blues harp and it was great.

I heard it on AOL Radio.

---

21 Jul 11 - 09:40 AM (#3191964)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

hmmmm

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21 Jul 11 - 01:32 PM (#3192090)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I like David... Met him about 30 years ago... BTW, he is working cheap (relatively) these days so if anyone wants to hire him fir a gig let me know and I think I can get the offer to him...

Well, I was drunk the day my mama got outta prison...

Nevermind... Back to the delusional GfinS... All the $$$ that George Soros has is chump change compared to the Koch brothers...

B~

---

21 Jul 11 - 01:48 PM (#3192103)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Just so, Jack. Shakespeare asked, "What's in a name?" Well, oftentimes, quite a bit. "Guest FROM Sanity" about says it all.

####

Seattle has been an innovative Rock town for some decades now. Jimi Hendrix, Nirvana, many others. And now—

Who needs Vlad? The world has    CLICKY.   With Kaci doin' her thing. (She also has a YouTube video where she demonstrates taking off her bra in about 13 seconds without removing her top.)

This video is presented as a Public Service as a diversion for those who are so frightened by the Evil Forces in the World that they are too intimidated and terrified to even think about trying to deal with them (hence, helping to guarantee their worst fears: that the E. F. of W. will eventually take over the entire planet).

You're welcome.

Don Firth

P. S. To Sawzaw. Well, yeah. . . .   Not my particular thing, but I'm not exactly a stranger to Rock.

My nephew.    And here he is again.

P. P. S.   I might not be back much today. I'm getting together with an old friend of mine this afternoon. He's quite active politically. We're going to PLOT!

P. P. P. S.   By the way, for GfS and Little Hawk, and others of like—er—mind, here's an organization they might be interested in joining:    Quiet! They might be listening!!

---

21 Jul 11 - 02:22 PM (#3192120)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

Brevity is the soul of wit. GfS does not share most of the views espoused by others. So what. Why pick on GfS. (I don not share GfS views, but that is no reason to resort to rancor.) IMO.

---

21 Jul 11 - 02:51 PM (#3192129)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Not to worry, brucie... GfinS has dished up more than her fair of manure on others here and she can take it... The ol' gal ain't some frail little thing... She's the original prototype of Nurse Ballbuster...lol...

But this thread is about the Tea Party and not GfinS...

B~

---

21 Jul 11 - 03:01 PM (#3192138)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

As far as resorting to rancour is concerned, take a look sat some to the posts of GfS. If you disagree with him about much of anything, he immediately comes back with a string of personal insults.

I don't like it either, 999, because it interferes with rational discourse. But these ginks are not interested in rational discourse, and unfortunately, some people give their baseless ravings credence.

You will note that, when they do abandon civilized behavior, I tend to temper my come-backs and rebutals with humor. It tends to amuse the rational folks here, but really gets up the noses of people like GfS and Sawzaw, because they seem to have had their senses of humor amputated early on.

Don Firth

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21 Jul 11 - 07:25 PM (#3192273)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

Gentlemen, GfS was rude to me many maonths back, so I seldom address him/her. However, I feel no need to be rude back--other than my initial GFY in response to the post that slagged me.

This type of call-response posting is beneath you. Hell, I know both you guys and have admired each of you for various reasons for many years now. I ain't telling you what to do. I am saying it's a waste of your time.

---

21 Jul 11 - 08:06 PM (#3192307)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Point taken.

Don Firth

---

21 Jul 11 - 08:45 PM (#3192326)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Hey, brucie... I think that you are making more of this than any of the participants in the mud pit...lol... I mean, yeah, we don't exactly agree but there is a level of caring, fondness and respect between all of us... I know it can be hard to see thru it from the outside but we all (the participants/combatants) seem to understand the where the boundaries are with the exception of Sawz... But GfinS and LH fully understand that Don and I aren't this, ahhhh, enemy...

Like it is said, "Ya had to be there"...

I mean, both GfinS and LH know that this ol' hillbilly loves 'um but also like to mix it up- with them on occasion...

That make any sense, brucie???

I mean, I loves you, too, but if you go mean mouthing olf Fords then we can wrestle around, too... lol... Fords rock!!! Okay, the newer ones leave a lot to be desired but the old ones rock!!!

B;~)

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21 Jul 11 - 09:40 PM (#3192347)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,999

OK, Bobert. Thanks.

As for Fords--jaysus. Fix Often, Repair Daily; Found On Road, Dead.

---

21 Jul 11 - 09:55 PM (#3192358)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, brucie... It's...

F...irst
O...n
R...ace
D...ay

Fords rock!!!!

B~

---

21 Jul 11 - 10:33 PM (#3192373)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

JTS: "I don't know why anyone would was to argue with a vacationer from sanity."

Frankly, neither do I....unless they like to play Devil's advocate, and learn something along the way!

JtS: "Anyone who argues that the Tea Party is anything but a rebranding of the worst elements of the GOP is playing the fool and is a dupe themselves."

As I've posted SEVERAL times before, I am NOT a Tea Partier, nor do I support them....but I CAN see why it appeals to some people, who want a change.....but, as also posted several times(sometimes I have to repeat myself to ideologues, they are very SLOW in learning, or even comprehending), "I'm not with the party, I'm with the band!"

Baghdad Bob Lim-baugh...or bert: "Nevermind... Back to the delusional GfinS... All the $$$ that George Soros has is chump change compared to the Koch brothers..."

In for a penny, in for a pound! You mean Soros made NOTHING after crashing the British pound?? Soros is a LOT wealthier, and crazier, than you have any idea apparently.

Guest 999: "GfS does not share most of the views espoused by others. So what. Why pick on GfS. (I don not share GfS views, but that is no reason to resort to rancor.) IMO."

Well, they do that rather than debate the issues, because they have NO FACTS to back them up...only liberal 'squawking points'...which is usually just hot air blowing out someone's ass. Typically when the name calling rancor begins, its because they sense they've lost the argument, and instead of engaging in fact finding, their inflated egos, just start bickering. It's another sign of short-sighted, Narcissistic stupidity!

Guest 999: "Gentlemen, GfS was rude to me many maonths back, so I seldom address him/her. However, I feel no need to be rude back--.."

..and we've both baked each other up, too, on occasion...Don Firth, as well.....(even a broken clock is right, twice a day)!

Bobert: "know it can be hard to see thru it from the outside but we all (the participants/combatants) seem to understand the where the boundaries are with the exception of Sawz... But GfinS and LH fully understand that Don and I aren't this, ahhhh, enemy..."

Because, in his heart, he knows we're right!!!

Waving To You All!!!

GfS

---

21 Jul 11 - 10:56 PM (#3192381)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No, it's because you are like our younger siblings who don't get it yet...

B~

---

22 Jul 11 - 12:22 AM (#3192423)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

..or because you old farts are senile!

BTW....If you fell into a pile of money..let's say billions, would or wouldn't you support a political effort??

If you did, OK..nothing wrong with that.....BUT if you used it to leverage agendas, in a corrupt way, that's a different story.
If it was legitimate, I'm sure your 'opposition' would come up with all sorts of slurs at you, wouldn't you say???..even media bias, as well..

I notice you ALWAYS jump on the Koch Bros......just what is it that, THAT YOU KNOW, is corrupt about them?...other than being rich, and oil people. To my knowledge, I don't know too much about their dealings, other than that of virtually all mega-wealthy people.
(I'm not setting a 'trap', or anything...I was just curious.

I noticed you didn't address the other people and entities I mentioned. THOSE I KNOW are corrupt bastards!

Another thing, just for what it's worth....remember when I said I talked to a couple of Tea Partiers, a while back??....I mentioned the Koch Bros. to them, and they didn't seem to know too much about them, either...but one seemed to know about one of them, by name(only).
Regardless, as I posted before, the 'attraction' for a lot of the Tea Party joiners, seems to rest with a frustration with 'business as usual in Washington'...and the people being screwed, as a result of it, and the loss of our(perceived) freedoms.

Just a simple response will do.(No lecturing, bad-mouthing, or pontificating)...OK?

GfS

---

22 Jul 11 - 06:52 AM (#3192535)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

There is a big difference between the way Soros and the Koch's spend their political money.

The lion's share of Soros' donations go to further the aims of the poor and working class. Moveon, is constantly asking me for money and specifying where it will be spent. In that way it is very democratic and transparent.

The Lions share of Koch money goes to make government friendlier to their own interests such as coal mining and lower taxes, at the expense of those with less than them.

---

22 Jul 11 - 07:04 AM (#3192542)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

"Regardless, as I posted before, the 'attraction' for a lot of the Tea Party joiners, seems to rest with a frustration with 'business as usual in Washington'...and the people being screwed, as a result of it, and the loss of our(perceived) freedoms."

When financial regulation was before Congress, I joined one of the Tea Party groups in the hope that I could find allies. They were not interested. They told me to "speak to Ron Paul's people." Then I asked them, wouldn't it be better to work at persuading both sides to work for their goals than just supporting Republicans. They said (paraphrase) that there was no such thing a good Democratic candidate. I pointed to the Dino in my own district. They ignored that.

Then I probed them to find one difference between theirs and the GOP congressional agenda. I could find none. Then I asked them outright, was there a difference. They admitted that there wasn't.

Anyone one joining the Tea Party to make a difference in Washington is being duped.

If you want change in Washington you can support the Dems and push change upon then at a glacial pace. Or you can Vote GOP, for changes which take us on the track of Reagan and Bush II.

The Dems do listen to their voters. But keep in mind that their voters are many times more diverse.

---

22 Jul 11 - 12:06 PM (#3192766)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Individual donations to 527 organizations (2001 to 2010)
George Soros: $32.5 million
Koch Brothers: $1.5 million

Individual donations to federal candidates, parties and political action committees (1989 to 2010)
Koch Brothers: $2.58 million 1.29 ea
George Soros: $1.74 million

---

Soros:"I have always harboured an exaggerated view of my self-importance. To put it bluntly, I fancied myself as some kind of god or an economic reformer like Keynes, or, even better, like Einstein. My sense of reality was strong enough to make me realise that these expectations were excessive, and I kept them hidden as a guilty secret. This was a source of considerable unhappiness through much of my adult life. As I made my way in the world, reality came close enough to my fantasy to allow me to admit my secret, at least to myself. Needless to say, I feel much happier as a result."

"It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out."

"I've come to the conclusion that one can do a lot more about the issues I care about by changing the government than by pushing the issues."

---

For the richest hedge fund managers, 2009 was the best year ever.

Appaloosa Management chief David Tepper, who bet on the recovery of banks and the debt of bailed-out US insurer AIG, earned the biggest payouts with $4.36 billion in 2009, a record for the sector.

US financier George Soros, the head of Soros Fund Management, took the second spot with $3.6 billion.

---

22 Jul 11 - 12:34 PM (#3192788)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

JtS: "Then I probed them to find one difference between theirs and the GOP congressional agenda. I could find none. Then I asked them outright, was there a difference. They admitted that there wasn't."

Not sure what you meant by the wording of that part of the post...but the only differences that I see, only last till the next rotation of the elections.

..and I beg to differ on Soros's versus Koch's 'contributions'. I'm NOT saying the Koch's are any more or less altruistic than Soros's...what I am saying is, once either or both parties become beholden to either one, or both's 'contribution', that the will of the people gets 'overridden' by the money, which is 'donated' to further THEIR view, which is not particularly in the best interests, OR the will of the people. The same can be said by any leveraging lobbyist's group, who through 'slight of hand', and loopholes, amounts to nothing more than bribes. If a 'representative' refuses their advances, then that person,(or their agenda) is subject to a media campaign to smear them! The media, is all too obliging, depending on the 'contributions' that they have received, from the same! That's why there is such a chasm between the various 'news' groups...other than the general disinformation that the government chooses to release...which, of course, is slanted toward whomever they are beholden to, at the time!
As an example, as of recent...the 'stimulus' crap..a trillion dollars of debt occurred, 'Borrowed'(which means it is non-taxable), goes to the banks, who don't release it for it's intended purpose, while we, the public pays it back, PLUS the interest, to the banks, who are holding our money!!!
Now, just who is 'zooming' who???
It should be all too apparent, that somebody is either making a ton of money from these practices, or an incredible amount of leverage..to further their own greed for a power base. BOTH parties have been bought off, long ago, to perpetuate this fraud on the American,(and world) people!
The problem, with the ideologues, is they keep chanting the mantra, of the EXCUSES that are thrown to them, which SEEMS all too 'righteous', while the 'leaders' couldn't give a rat's ass about anything but the power and money.
It should be noted, as well, that MOST of these clandestine clowns, behind the scenes, have globalist interests, AND military and defense contracts....so any way we turn, we end up inadvertently funding all of this nonsense, PLUA the interest(which is usually equal to the original loan), and become more enslaved, to accommodate their avarice for power and greed, while at the same time, give up not only our sovereignty,, but personnel freedoms and liberties with it.
Another goodie, to throw into the mix, is that a lot of these monies are used to fund 'black box' programs, which are, of course, kept very hush hush, and out of the eyes of scrutiny....because of 'national interests', which in itself is a misnomer, for being used against us..to keep us in line!!
You'd think, that folk singers, who rose to prominence during the 'protest era' would be addressing this..but aren't, because that too, was co-opted by the Democratic Party, only to gather support, and votes...but NOT to further anything, that even resembles representing, virtually ANYTHING that they 'aligned' themselves for, other than deceiving that group, that 'they' are 'on our side'!!!....and as we all got older, some of us actually still think that!....Want to talk about being 'duped'?
Meanwhile, while 'this administration' has racked up 4 more trillion in debt(largest in U.S. history), what has it bought us, EXCEPT paying the interest on those loans, which is greater than the military budget.....but the left keep pointing to the military as the ones sucking up all the resources!!!....just because they were sold a bad bill of goods, by the LEADERSHIP, of the Democrats, who have convinced the devotees down-line, that they are they guys of peace, and equality!..Bullshit!!!
Personally, from what I've seen, there are good and decent people who are both liberal, conservative, Republicans, Democrats, Tea Partiers, and the like....they only get weird when they begin reciting the bull-crap that was fed to them, by the 'leaders' of those parties, who have NO intention of ever believing ANY of it!!!!!!!!!!!
Just take a look!!
....Meanwhile, the 'protest' singers, just bicker within themselves, in effect, disarming them, and rendering them both useless, and unheard!
....as witnessed on here!....and NEVER heard, in the public arena!

Thank you, for responding to my question in an intelligent post!

Regards,
GfS

---

22 Jul 11 - 01:08 PM (#3192816)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq

Here is what successful Las Vegas hotel owner and lifetime Democrat Steve Wynn has to say about Obama' economic policy...



                                                                                       from Democrat-leaning Los Angeles Times

---

22 Jul 11 - 01:28 PM (#3192828)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

The point I made was much simpler than that. It is one of motivation. I am arguing that Soros spends to help others and the Koch's Spend to help themselves therefor there is no equating them.

---

22 Jul 11 - 01:32 PM (#3192831)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Now, ya know, the Lord helps those who help themselves - with both hands.

---

22 Jul 11 - 02:33 PM (#3192896)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Kochs take a heaping helping while Soros helps a heap?

---

22 Jul 11 - 03:18 PM (#3192946)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

GfS, Little Hawk, for years, has been talking about how the United States in particular is governed by one party masquerading as two, and there is no point in trying to oppose it. Give up!

Defeatism, even if true.

You, on the other hand, have never made a clear, cohesive statement other than negative remarks about those whom you characterize as "liberal," usually accompanied by contemptuous adjectives indicating you have no actual knowledge of what a liberal is ("…. liberal 'squawking points'...which is usually just hot air blowing out someone's ass."), and an inability to distinguish between liberals, progressives, socialists, conservatives, fascists,, Nazis, communists, and various other schools of political and economic philosophy.

But you seem to be taking the same negative position that Little Hawk does. You haven't stated any "facts!" Just shallow opinions along the same defeatist ideas that Little Hawk has expressed. That, and a general penchant for flinging insults and contemptuous remarks at people when they are talking over your head.

Also, you use political terms (without knowing what they mean), slap labels on people, and try to stuff them into arbitrary pigeon holes, which is the mark of someone who knows little, but wants to play the expert by putting other people down, not by attempting to refute what they say, but by attacking them on a personal level (". . .  you old farts are senile!").

Okay, GfS, you use the word "liberal" a lot, indiscriminately applying it to people as a pejorative.

Here's a primer (not that I think it will do much good):

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom") is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but most liberals support such fundamental ideas as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, free trade, and the freedom of religion. These ideas are widely accepted, even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.

Liberalism first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenment, rejecting several foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as hereditary status, established religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The early liberal thinker John Locke, who is often credited for the creation of liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition, employed the concept of natural rights and the social contract to argue that the rule of law should replace absolutism in government, that rulers were subject to the consent of the governed, and that private individuals had a fundamental right to life, liberty, and property.

The nineteenth century saw liberal governments established in nations across Europe, Latin America, and North America. Liberal ideas spread even further in the twentieth century, when liberal democracies triumphed in two world wars and survived major ideological challenges from fascism and communism.

Conservatism, fundamentalism, and military dictatorship remain powerful opponents of liberalism.

Your welcome.

Don Firth

---

22 Jul 11 - 05:17 PM (#3193032)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Another Left Wing Terrorist attack

Clay Duke facebook page which listed the George Soros funded mediamatters.org on his Facebook page as one of his favorite websites.
"My Testament: Some people (the government sponsored media) will say I was evil, a monster (V) no I was just born poor in a country where the Wealthy manipulate, use, abuse, and economically enslave 95% of the population. Rich Republicans, Rich Democrats same-same rich they take turns fleecing us our few dollars pyramiding the wealth for themselves. The 95% the us, in US of A, are the neo slaves of the Global South. Our Masters, the Wealthy, do, as they like to us "

---

Duke ordered everyone to leave the room, except for the boardmembers. After the people left, a female board member, Ginger Littleton, is seen in the video trying to disarm the gunman. She hits his hand with her purse.

Duke knocked her to the ground and pointed his pistol at her head, but allowed her to leave. "Go on," he can be heard saying on the video.

Duke then turned his attention mostly to Husfelt.

"You fired my wife," he said to the school board leader. He then gave a dire prediction as to how things were going to end. "I'm going to die today."

Duke never identified the job or refers to his wife by name, but argued that he was broke and would soon lose health benefits. Husfelt negotiated with him to let the other members of the board leave, taking the blame for his wife being fired.

"I'm the one that signed the paper, right?" Husfelt told Duke, according to the video. "Let them go, I'm the one who did it... You're obviously upset with me, so why are they here?"

Moments later, Duke points his gun at Husfelt and pulls the trigger. Miraculously, the bullet misses. The man fires several more times at board members, but his shots go wild.

Then, according to police, security guard and former cop Mike Jones stormed into the room and opened fire. He hit Duke, who then collapsed to the floor. Police said he then turned the gun on himself.

SWAT officers soon swarmed the room. The entire incident lasted only a few minutes.

"It was so surreal," Husfelt said. "You couldn't believe it was going on."

Although some board members thought perhaps the gun was loaded with blanks or was merely a cap gun, police said it was real.

Duke had a history of violence. In 1999 he was charged with aggravated stalking, shooting or throwing a missile into a building or vehicle and obstructing justice, according to state records. He was convicted and sentenced in January 2000 to five years in prison and was released in January 2004. Records show Duke was a licensed massage therapist before his arrest but it wasn't clear if he was employed.

---

Form the Deocratic underground:

It is now that I ask that you look upon the man not as a maniac, not as a drunkard ex-con, not as a rambling lunatic or an attempted murderer, but as a martyr, a symbol of the never ending strife for social justice and equality, a warrior, for our cause. I ask that you see Clay Duke for the man behind the gun.

Facebook links
theprogressivemind.info
    http://metanoia-films.org/index.php
    http://www.theprogressivemind.info/
    http://www.axisoflogic.com/
    http://carolynbaker.net/
    http://www.accountabilitycircle.org/
    http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com
    http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml
    http://mediamatters.org/
    http://www.medialens.org/
    http://redpill8.blogspot.com/
    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Disinfopedia
    http://www.stoplying.ca/
    http://www.wearechange.org/
    http://wikileaks.indymedia.org/mirrors.html

---

22 Jul 11 - 05:26 PM (#3193037)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

No point in attempting to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

---

22 Jul 11 - 06:14 PM (#3193074)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

True. But I guess hope springs eternal. Trying to have a rational conversation with some people is like trying to teach a pig to whistle. It won't be successful, it's a waste of your time, and it annoys the pig.

(But sometimes, just knowing that you've annoyed the pig can be a positive.}

Don Firth

---

22 Jul 11 - 08:22 PM (#3193151)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

It is somewhat amazing that he can consistently come up with this lunatic bullshit, and works so hard to misinterpret & mis-state it, tho. Imagine if he applied all that effort to something worthwhile.

---

22 Jul 11 - 08:32 PM (#3193155)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Here's the deal, Greg...

The right wing is spending big $$$ on bloggers and bomb throwers... These folks get paid to sit on their asses and do nothing but twist information into something that has nothing to do with reality... They are paid by the folks who have corralled 80% of the wealth in this country... These folks can literally throw billions at lies, bullshit and more lies...

The left??? Ain't got the grease to compete... That 20% of the wealth that is left are the crumbs that the other 95% of the population have to live on...

This would be David and Goliath except the left ain't got no sling shot...

B~

---

23 Jul 11 - 12:58 AM (#3193271)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Lemme see. The left wing Democratic underground says Clay Duke is "a warrior for our cause" and that what Bobert believes is a paid right winger.

Bootleg Moonshine + Cannabis + Bobert sittin on his ass + acute blowharditis = Bobert "facts" such as "The West Bank has the highest density of any place in the Middle East"

---

23 Jul 11 - 01:26 AM (#3193281)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well, except for more hard blowing, nobody has refuted Sawzaw's posts and his links, with anything of supporting facts...just more pedantic attempts at discrediting, those of an opposing view!!!...and then turn around and do exactly what you're accusing 'the right' of doing, to the left!!!(and I'm not even on the 'right'..just don't agree). Then call,(without responding,)of course, him or myself of being 'opinionated'...but refuse to address the posts...with nothing but party line OPINIONS....and NO FACTS!!!
WHAT IS THIS??? 'Stupid' on parade???!!
I AIN'T BUYIN' IT!!..you can..you can even think you've impressed somebody...other than yourself...but you didn't, and WON'T, without some supporting FACTS. What?..You expect others to share your opinions, built of political partisan fantasies..or some fantasy bullshit rap you bought into????
Hey, you got your break..but 'break's over'! Less twisted 'logic' based on baseless rhetoric, and some FACTS to give credence, to any of your nonsense!
Is that such a wild, unreasonable request??...especially to those who claim to be such 'astute intellectuals'??
Are we suppose to be swayed by mere sophistry??

..and a more in depth definition......

..and then conclude it with everybody isn't as 'wise' as you to understand it??
Understand WHAT?? You haven't presented ANYTHING of substance!!...except misnomers of what you think I, Little Hawk, or Sawzaw is saying...then arguing your 'point' you pretend to make, as if it is what WE are saying, or even talking about!...supported by FACTS!!
Get a life!....or some 'reality doses'!
Let's give it another try...Sawzaw presented several links now, that supports various things both Little Hawk and I have said....if you can't support your view....get some 'intellectual glasses'!!!
Still my posts stand!!!...and, without any serious refutation, as does Little Hawk's, and Sawzaw's....AND none of us, agree on EVERYTHING, nor are we communicating with each other off the thread!~(as you have)! Either offer something of value, or at least 'consider' the possibility, that you may have something NEW to learn...from your friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sincerely....(and sincerely disappointed in you),

GfS

---

23 Jul 11 - 06:02 AM (#3193367)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

"The West Bank has the highest density of any place in the Middle East"

Perhaps you mean Gaza, which is one of the most densely populated places in the world.

---

23 Jul 11 - 06:09 AM (#3193373)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

You want me to argue with some unattributed quotes about Soros? He is not even saying that what Soros did is illegal; or something a couple of individuals I never heard of said on facebook?

Sawzaw hasn't said anything meaningful that I have read. Just pointless attacks on individuals and avoidance of the issues.

---

23 Jul 11 - 08:12 AM (#3193416)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST

GfinS,

The reason no one refutes Sawz arguments is simple... No one reads any of his posts anymore, other that you and maybe LH and I doubt if LH even reads 'um...

Sawz has taken himself out of the game and now it's too late for him... Maybe he'll have to reinvent himself like the other two times he did this here, first as Old Guy and then as Dickey...

B~

---

23 Jul 11 - 10:33 AM (#3193488)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

I know that YOU know you're right. You know a man who knew he was right. He murdered four score and four children to prove Muslims are the terrorists to fight.

The shock and denial of the waiting parents is hell incarnate, waiting for word of their child as police stand before a curtain.

They already know that the odds of thier child being murdered or gravely injured is not 1 in 4 but virtually certain.

The pain and guilt is unbearable. If only I... What if I... Why?
Who? What if they...What if you.. What if I... and they break down and cry.

Our opinons turned to anger. We yelled the killer is Muslim, no the killer is Jewish, no the killer is Christian, no the killer is right wing extremist. And we are lost, bickering among ourselves.

With all the reflection of research with science and religious study, justice will never satisfy; we fall into a loneliness and depression, and feel we can no longer cry.

He knew guns and bombs would teach the world. He pledged he would no longer be powerless. Still he felt every insult that's hurled. He felt everything to gain if you could feel his pain and that is why he is so dangerous.

We will point to patterns of hate and we'll try to accept our fate but no one or thing will change the fight of the bestial proud predator in the man who believes he is Right.

OH yes indeed, YOU know you are right.

---

23 Jul 11 - 10:41 AM (#3193492)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Don, I don't think it is fair to compare anyone on the mudcat.org to that man.

---

23 Jul 11 - 10:58 AM (#3193507)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Are we not men?
If you cut us do we not bleed?
Do you not feel that you are right?
Are you not part of the human condition?
Have you never posted predatory sentiments?

The poem applies to everyone here but goes beyond all of us and deeper than you suspect.

---

23 Jul 11 - 11:42 AM (#3193534)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

I think there is a world of difference between an angry post and murdering teenagers in cold blood.

---

23 Jul 11 - 02:41 PM (#3193694)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

You know, GfinS, you keep saying that you're not an extreme Right-Winger, but here you are, making snotty and insulting remarks about people here whom you know nothing about but nevertheless dub "liberals," and generally being bitchy to anyone who doesn't talk like an old fascist with senile dementia.

You're credibility is ZIP. You're joining Sawzaw AND, unfortunately, Little Hawk (who choses to sit in the lotus position with his feet in his lap, levitating and floating up there around the ceiling, and intoning quotations from the books of Alan Watts) in that nobody wants to waste their time and energy reading your posts anymore.

And NO, it's not because you're so brilliantly right (except in the political spectrum sense), it's because you don't really have anything to say. You read like the ravings of a Teabagger who has no ideas of his own and who flunked all his English classes. Even your insults are kind of puerile compared to those of the average snot-nosed schoolyard bully.

####

Due to the fact that I have a life in the 3D world, I don't have a lot of time to play today, kids, but this thought did occur to me:

Sawzaw and GfS, and for that matter, Little Hawk, are very much like slinkies. They aren't actually good for anything, but they ARE kind of amusing to watch if you push them down a long flight of stairs.

Don Firth

---

23 Jul 11 - 03:00 PM (#3193713)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

A+, Don, especially the part about the slinky...

But, yeah... Seems the Axis of Evil (GfinS, Sawz and LH) have banded against the "liberals"... What next??? People running thru the streets screaming like in some 60s Japanese horror flick...

I mean, if any of them got cancer they would be seeking out the best and brightest doctors but when it comes to the US economy they are perfectly willing to let the Koch brothers and Dick Armey call the shots using the Tea Part as their bidders and shills...

Fact is stranger than fiction...

B~

---

23 Jul 11 - 03:09 PM (#3193718)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

who choses to sit in the lotus position with his feet in his lap, levitating and floating up there around the ceiling

That is a very funny caricature.

---

23 Jul 11 - 03:52 PM (#3193754)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Still no refutations on Sawzaw's links..just more rantings, until your sphincters slam shut...then attack ANYONE who disagrees with your silly assertions. Bobert says NO one is reading Sawzaw's posts. That, as clearly seen, is flagrantly not true....as JtS, and myself, and anyone commenting on them, has. Once again, you guys make up shit, and then go on, like you made some 'profound truth'..and ONLY based on your 'wishful thinking'....such is the life of whacked ideologues! Disregard the plain evidence in front of them, just to push some asinine agenda. Who pays you guys?..Some outreach of an international banker???...Oh, wait a minute, they only pay the people you get your silliness...you do it for free!
So, attack the people who may shed light on the subject, because you might just find out that your rose colored glasses, might have 'blather splatter' from your over active bladder. If you can't support your claims, then it is YOU, who has fallen down, not those people who you can't logically, and forthrightly rebut....No matter who you slam, or what you say. So go stick your heads back into the sand, or any closer warm moist orifice, and blow bubbles. Your rap is getting NO traction! Just refute and or/rebut the claims, and lay off the attempts to discredit the poster, with absolutely NOTHING of substance to back up your position. This is NOT an unreasonable request, in a civil discourse......unless, of course, you can't. In that case, be 'grown up' enough to ask questions, OR SOMETHING to shed more light, on what you can't seem to answer...because if you can't, and just engage in childish attempts to call him names, and/or slur him, it might be because he's right, and you're only running on arrogance, and the fear of denting your superegos.
What?? You think we can't help each other??
(That's why I thought Don, at least shines when he posts about musical history!!)

Regards,

GfS

---

23 Jul 11 - 03:54 PM (#3193759)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

gFs YOU ARE A NASTY PERSON AND A WASTE OF MY TIME.

---

23 Jul 11 - 04:14 PM (#3193772)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

More like a waste of space & air.

---

23 Jul 11 - 06:20 PM (#3193850)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well, I'm honored..being as you have nothing to say...even after I backed you up. So, throw your tantrums all you want, but its worthless. All I asked for, and not particularly from JtS(who should re-read my reply to him, being as it re-enforces him, rather than attacks him), but it's all a PLOY to mask the FACT, that those attacking Sawzaw, have done so, only using caustic rhetoric, with NOTHING..I repeat, NOTHING as a valid, reasonable shred of factual support to their position!...And that pissed you off??????????????
Me thinks you are even shallower, than I would have ever imagined, or thought to imagine.
It has happened repeatedly on here, where someone cites a link or a source, for their position, and some of you just get into some sort of behavioral pissy-fit, for apparently no reason, other than you have nothing to say, and don't like what the other poster says...or it 'insults' you fraudulent indoctrinations, and have no other recourse, other than whining like a bunch of stuck pigs.
Jeez Louise, is this what your 'political awareness' has brought you to????????....I'd look in a different direction, if that's all you've become! ...and you expect ANYONE to 'respect' your ideas??????
Time to put away the computer, and break out your Tinkertoys!!!!

GfS

---

23 Jul 11 - 06:21 PM (#3193851)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

You know, for one last go, a sort of "farewell and adieu," I tried to read GfinS's last post, but other than general hysteria, it reminded me of the Yorkshire terrier that belongs to the nice lady across the street. He makes about as much sense.

Coming home from work one afternoon, I was driving down my street heading for my garage, and suddenly the Yorkie runs out in the middle of the street right in front of me and tries to face me down. He's barking so vigorously that with each "YAP!" all four feet leave the pavement. I stopped, as not to run over him. He was such a runt that I probably could have driven right over him and not even touched him, but the way he was acting, he probably would have tried to bite one of my tires, which could possibly lead to his getting his empty little head mashed.

It got pretty funny in a frustrating sort of way. I tried to ease the car forward, hoping that he would back down. But no! He just barked all the more vigorously. I was on the verge of getting out of the car, grabbing him, and throwing him over the hedge, but the woman who owned him came dashing out of her house, scooped him up, and apologized profusely. We got to laughing as, there, safe in her restraining arms, he was still barking at me as if he wanted to tear a leg off.

But then, I'm generally kind to dumb animals. . . .

Don Firth ("YAP! YAP! YAP!" yourself!)

---

23 Jul 11 - 07:26 PM (#3193905)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, I'm with you, Don...

Since GfinS has joined the Tea Party she hasn't been much fun... or lucid either... And these constant "you didn't answer Saws questions" when no one read his delusional posts other than her and the other Axis of Evil, LH, is getting to be just like that little dog: noise and no real bite... I mean, there's no beef in her posts anymore... Just loonie???

I don't get it???

But then again, in spite of my years working with crazy people, I find them interesting but I don't get them either...

Oh well...

B~

---

23 Jul 11 - 07:51 PM (#3193925)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

From what little I've been quick-scanning Sawzaw's posts lately (like an astronaut on an alien planet, looking for signs of intelligent life), I don't see that he's actually asking any questions. Just cutting and pasting from Right Wing blogs.

So, what's to answer?

Don Firth

---

23 Jul 11 - 08:00 PM (#3193931)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

I patiently told you why they weren't trying to refute Sawzaw's nonesense. But you just kept right on a screaming and a yabbering and insulting people.

Give me one good reason why I should bother to read another single post by you?

---

23 Jul 11 - 08:19 PM (#3193945)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Little Hawk, who chooses to sit in the lotus position with his feet in his lap, levitating and floating up there around the ceiling, and intoning quotations from the books of Alan Watts....

Sawzaw, Little Hawk and GfS

---

23 Jul 11 - 08:20 PM (#3193947)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Well, in one of Sawz former lives here at Mudville, either as Old Guy or Dickey, he thinks he asked me a question??? Back then, I did answer his questions... I remember going head to head with him in the Katrinagate thread... It went over 800 posts and in that amount of time he asked me a lot of load "Are you still beating your wife" type gothca questions but I answered them...

But here's the deal with Sawz... If he doesn't like your answer he says you dind't answer it at all...

Now that GfinS has joined the SawzCult she is doing the exact same thing??? There are all these unknown questions in the SawzCult that others get accused of not answering??? I guess it's a cult think, I donno... What I do know is that Sawz and his disciples are evidence of two theories:

1. There are more horses asses than there are horses and...

2. Some folks here have/had grand daddies that apparently carnal knowledge of buffalo...

Other than that, I guess this is what you expect of people who have no understanding or either economics or American History both of which, with a few credit hours of continuing education, I would *again* be certified to teach at the high school level... But that's just a sidebar...

B~

---

23 Jul 11 - 08:35 PM (#3193956)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

So the worst/best you boys can do is to yell loudly at each other that you are ignoring the other. That so in so has no credibility. That you are right and they are insane. From my seat it sounds like AM radio teaching what one must think of Obama to be a real American.

The tea party counterparts in Norway are the same as people here. The rhetoric is the same. The gun play is the same. The fertilizer bomb is the same as McVeigh. The child victims are the same.
That they appear sane at a distance is the same. They feel morally superior and right the same way. They are even right wing extremist in the same way.

Games are being played here in knee jerk fashion. PM's pleading people to pledge a no talk zone surrounding so in so. Been there done that to me already.

SOme games are the mean guy gamer who defies logic, gives a left field example and then asks for one counter example or refutation, then sneers and insults the rest.

Some people play the 'fail to understand' game, it is when they know better but pretend to not understand and say you really mean what they say you mean. Thats you Jack. I know you. You are smarter than that.

I also know that everything a person thinks here comes through the filter of their belief system. Its like the brain is a lawyer only looking for the salient facts or hyperbole to defend their client's belief.

So

For an entire day, take a break. Realize what your filter is.
COme to grip with what just happened in you and in Norway. See that the other guy isn't saying exactly what you may have thought.

Trade places and look for commonalities. anything. one thing.
Think of yourself as a parent of a murdered child by the self described killer groups.


This is a make or break time gents.

If you can't get it together with your fellow musicians, you are destined to lock and load and fire on a child in your future, no matter how unlikely civil war seems to you now.


Even a temporary truce, pretending you were just joking, is better than some recent behavior.

---

23 Jul 11 - 08:36 PM (#3193958)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Economic literacy and the Tea Party are not compatible.

---

23 Jul 11 - 09:16 PM (#3193989)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

Literacy PERIOD and the Tea Party are not compatible.

---

23 Jul 11 - 10:33 PM (#3194017)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST

---

23 Jul 11 - 11:00 PM (#3194027)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well, It looks like you've finally conceded to the fact that you've lost this stupid premise. The Tea Party is NOT a terrorist organization, and for you to accuse fellow AMERICANS of a differing opinion, of being 'terrorists' is nothing more than inciting more divisions, in this already divided time! Shame on you!..and shame on you who support this position!! You've become the very intolerant 'brown shirts' you say you dislike! I thought being 'liberal' means you also have an open and liberal mind, that allows others the freedom, allowed you, to have a differing opinion, and speak their minds...but you don't, and therefore, you are phony.
Bobert jumps on the Koch Bros. for supporting the Tea gang, and when Sawzaw points out that Soros has funded WAY more, than the Kochs, he can't bring himself to admit that, he is nothing more than 'calling the kettle black'! We should NOT be engaged in provoking divisions, with such hatred with violent undertones, amongst our own citizens!!
Then enter the wannabe 'political agitators', whose time has gone, but find an opportunity to relive some old delusions of theirs. You hate, you censor, you slur, and you suck!!
Get over it..you are wrong, and sewing divisions amongst fellow Americans is wrong!...especially when you are also claiming to be a 'Christian'..as you both have.
The reason I use the term 'so-called liberals', is that in fact, you ARE NOT liberal at ALL...actually, more like the 'liberal' Phil Ochs sang about.....bullshit con artists, with not an ounce of a liberal heart, or attitude!!! YOU are just as much, or more up tight and anal retentive, than the farthest of the far right. Not good!..especially for musicians!
So, I'll leave you with a tune, in two parts...you have to get past the instrumental to get to the last verse.....it fits you!..and a GREAT PIECE, as well!!!!!

Part one

Part two

GfS

---

23 Jul 11 - 11:13 PM (#3194031)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Soros = David

Koch Brothers = Goliath

Comparing the BIG $$$'s that the Koch Brothers have spent ***to buy government*** compared to the pennies that Soros has thrown toward ***pro-human*** causes is a joke on your part...

B~

---

24 Jul 11 - 12:30 AM (#3194051)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

According to the figures..you got that completely backwards!

Now what??..Another lie??

GfS

---

24 Jul 11 - 09:18 AM (#3194179)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Whose figures??? Right wing bloggers??? Sawz???

Get real, GfinS... Wake up and smell the coffee... You are showing your "ignorance"... No, here's a better idea... Learn something from verifiable sources... Read the New Yorker article on the Koch brothers... Google "Citizens United" and read how much undisclosed $$$ is being thrown to defeat Obama... Someone is paying for the barrage of anti-Obama ads that are plastering Big Media... If you watch an hours worth of TV you'll see at least one ad... Those ads ain't free... Who is paying for them??? Hint: it ain't George Soros...

In other words, get you head outta the right wing spin turbine and get some fresh air... As in "the truth"... It's there for the taking...

B~

---

24 Jul 11 - 09:50 AM (#3194191)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Whose figures??? Right wing bloggers??? Sawz???"

YOU MADE THE CLAIM...NOW PROVE IT!!.....

Fair enough?

GfS

---

24 Jul 11 - 11:41 AM (#3194244)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

The Tea-o-cracy Party is being financed by the Koch Brothers who, as in the case of Karl Rove are whistling "Onward Christian Soldiers" cheerfully as they bear their arms to political rallies.

Proof is in the eye of the beholder; it does no good with someone with a rigid mindset.

Whose sanity are we talking about here?

---

24 Jul 11 - 01:13 PM (#3194320)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

The Tea Party a terrorist organization? After thousands of posts, no one who likes the Tea Party has explained why they feel the need to show up at political meetings with guns. I call that terrorism. What do you call it?

Is the Tea Party a stupid organization? Take a look at Congress, with the Tea Party getting close to shutting down the government in order to protect the ability of the mega-rich to continue to shaft the rest of us. And that's not even getting into the idea that the only way to get anything done in politics is to be willing to compromise. These yahoos are about to destroy my retirement savings -- yours as well, if you have any. And do they really think they're all going to get elected again after the asses they are making of themselves right now?

Is the Tea Party a moral organization? Their darling Sarah Palin is best known as a craven liar. Their other darling Michelle Bachman is best known for her desire to overthrow the Constitution of the United States by establishing a state religion.

Can anyone offer any defense of the activities of the Tea Party that isn't a cut and paste from a right wing blog?

Can anyone offer any defense of the activities of the Tea Party that isn't an attack on some other political group, in the "they do it so why shouldn't I?" vein (think about the morality question).

Can anyone offer any defense of the activities of the Tea Party that doesn't include flinging insults at other people in the discussion?

Can anyone offer any defense of the activities of the Tea Party that doesn't include telling other people that they are some liberal idiot conspiracy brainwashed agenda, thus removing for yourself the need to take them seriously?

---

24 Jul 11 - 01:36 PM (#3194339)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

What the Tea Old Party is doing now with the debt limit amounts to terrorism. "Give us what we want or we will shoot this economy!"

---

24 Jul 11 - 02:16 PM (#3194365)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Opinions, Opinions, Opinions.....and nothing to substantiate any of it!...
...and I'm not even a Tea partier...but the hate and lies shown by these 'open-minded so-called liberals' is appalling!!

Oh, and Bobert, find your proof yet??

...back to calm....
not that I wasn't....

GfS

---

24 Jul 11 - 03:24 PM (#3194421)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Opinions, Opinions, Opinions.....and nothing to substantiate any of it!...
...and I'm not even a Tea partier...but the hate and lies shown by these 'open-minded so-called liberals' is appalling!!

Sorry, GfS, not good enough. You'll have to be more specific. Are you including me in your "hate and lies" assessment? What did I say that was hateful or a lie? Why do you think so? Can you explain your own views in a way that involves responding to individuals instead of to a generalized "open-minded so-called liberals"?

Oh, and while you're bugging Bobert for not responding to something or the other of Sawzaw's, I'd still like you to tell me the logic behind your contradictory statements regarding freedom, the Constitution, and gay marriage. I've heard you talk a lot about freedom for all Americans and about following the letter of the Constitution, and I've heard you talk a lot about limiting the freedoms and Constitutional rights of some Americans. Which is it, and why? Do you agree with the Tea Party stance on whether or not gay Americans should have limitations put their freedom and rights?

Does using bullying tactics, both physical and political, against a legally disenfranchised minority fall within your definition of terrorism? If not, how would you describe it, and why?

---

24 Jul 11 - 03:32 PM (#3194427)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I do not believe that the Tea Party is—directly—a terrorist organization. But—

They are a bunch of very angry people, ranging in political orientation from conservative to extreme Right-Wing, most of whom identify themselves as Republicans, but some of those who are furthest to the Right are calling for a third party, the nature of which they have not delineated, but who argue for little or no government at all and complete elimination of regulations on financial institutions—and on corporations.

They also tend to embrace the writings and philosophy of Ayn Rand.

[Note to Gfs:   This is NOT "opinion." This is what they say themselves.]

Note:    Ayn Rand's philosophy, while not identical, has many strong parallels with the philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche, especially Nietzsche's concept of the Übermensch, literally "Overman," but generally translated as "Superman." The Übermensch is above the morality of ordinary people. They determine their own morality. You can get an idea of where Ayn Rand is going with this from the title of one of her non-fiction books, The Virtue of Selfishness. And you can see this idea of the "Superman" playing itself out in Ayn Rand's novels, in portrayals of some of her characters in, for example, Atlas Shrugged:   Hank Reardon, Dagny Taggart, Francisco d'Anconia, and, especially, John Galt.   

It should not be necessary to remind people that Nietzsche, especially his concept of the "Superman," was embraced by Adolph Hitler and his cabal in Germany in the 1930s. And that Benito Mussolini defined Fascism as "The combined power of the Corporations and the State."

The current trend in this country, pushed by the Right Wing in general, and by seeming loose groups like the Tea Party (but carefully steered by people like the Kochs) strike me as very ominous echoes of the same ideas that were steering Germany in the 1930s.

Judging from the behavior of some, there are people who appear at political events at which the Tea Party is present who would make very good, and more than willing, Brownshirts. And judging from some of the placards carried, racism is rife in the Tea Party.

Is the Tea Party a terrorist group? Well, I think that depends on how you define "terrorist group."

Don Firth

P. S.   It is interesting to note that a large percentage of Tea Party members identify themselves as evangelical Christians. Despite their objections to government regulations, not to mention their insistence on strict obedience to the Constitution, they want the government to pass laws prohibiting behavior that their particular churches regard as sinful. And some have gone on record as endorsing the assassination of doctors who work in abortion clinics, and/or fire-bombing the clinics themselves.

---

24 Jul 11 - 03:38 PM (#3194429)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"The right wing is spending big $$$ on bloggers and bomb throwers"

Name one, Bobert the Blowhard. Name a Dixiecrat.


"Perhaps you mean Gaza, which is one of the most densely populated places in the world."

Ask Bobert. It was one of his "facts" that he presented here and according to him he is very Don't hold you breath for the source.

---

24 Jul 11 - 04:34 PM (#3194480)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

John P:

Who needs to defend something they did not say?

You are making statements that you need to defend.

Filngin insults is the way the Tea Party haters operate.

And finally it is the Democrats who are now overspending and diluting your savings.

Did the Tea Party ruin people's retirements in Greece?

"Give us what we want or we will shoot this economy!"

Who said that? You said it and you are trying to put the words in some else's mouth like when Bobert calls The President a Ni***h and pretends someone else said it.

---

24 Jul 11 - 04:36 PM (#3194482)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Oh, crap!

I inadvertently read Sawzaw's post just above.

It is as if Bobert, say, living in a neighborhood where there are dozens of dogs wandering around, comments, "Dogs are pooping on my front lawn."

Then Sawzaw comes in and demands, "Name which dogs!"

They're ALL doing it, Sawz. That's what dogs do-do!

Give it a rest. You're attacks on Bobert are doing nothing but making you look even MORE ridiculous. And demonstrates graphically that you, indeed, ARE stalking him.

Don Firth

---

24 Jul 11 - 04:40 PM (#3194483)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Jeez! He did it again, even before I had a chance to post.

PTUI!!

Don Firth

---

24 Jul 11 - 05:15 PM (#3194503)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,TIA

Do not make the mistake of putting LH in the same category as Sawzaw and GfS. LH has had a consistent persona and handle for many years. GfS and Sazaw change handles and post under other names with impunity. They deserve only to be ignored. LH...I read.

---

24 Jul 11 - 05:34 PM (#3194515)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Still waiting to see if TIA checked out the sources on the Zfacts link she posted.

I didn't say anything about naming dogs. That is your rhetoric at work. Reductio Ad Absurdum.

Bobert demands sources, Why can't I? "Whose figures??? Right wing bloggers???

---

24 Jul 11 - 05:42 PM (#3194517)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"All the $$$ that George Soros has is chump change compared to the Koch brothers..."



Bush's last annual budget deficit was for 2009 which was in place when Obama was inaugurated came in at...

...$1.4T

Obama's first annual budget deficit for 2010 came in at...

...$1.3T

WTF???

Obama actually cut $100B in annual budget deficits with his first budget??? Say it ain't so... I mean, horrors... I mean, that ain't what the right wing bloggers are sayin'... No, they aren't... They skip right on past the inconvenient truths, twist on the numbers and go right back to "accumulated national debt" because they are trying to put the 94 cents on the dollar of national debt that Bush handed off to Obama squarely on Obama... A lot of those 94 cents on the dollar were for Bush's wars and Bush's tax cuts...

In other words, the right wing doesn't want people to know the truth...

In other words, they are being completely dishonest...

"Whose figures??? Left wing bloggers???"

94 cents of every national debt dollar was inherited by Obama... Bills that Bush and Clinton and Daddy Bush and Reagan ran up before Obama was inaugurated... Actually, it's closer to 95 cents but who is counting.

"Whose figures??? Left wing bloggers???"

Was it Bobert that said: "What's good for the goose is also good for the gander..."

---

24 Jul 11 - 05:42 PM (#3194518)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Reductio ad absurdem is a logical refutation of a spurious argument made by putting different examples into the same format to demonstrate how ludicrous the original argument is.

It's not a fallacy. It EXPOSES a fallacy.

Don Firth

---

24 Jul 11 - 05:56 PM (#3194526)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yo, GfinS... Homie don't play Sawz games and homie ain't playin' yers either... The info is out there on the koch brothers and FreedomWorks... I don't need to get in no stupid pissing contest with your right wing paid bloggers who would know a fact if it bit them on their dumb asses...

Get a life... Learn something new...

I bet I read more read newspapers every day than then you, yer bud Sawz and the entire Tea Party... And I read everything... Not just stuff that I agree with... That what open mindedness and intellectual curiosity is about...

Nevermind... There was a time when you were 100 times more open minded than you are now... You have shut down your mind... Too bad for you...

B~

---

24 Jul 11 - 06:10 PM (#3194533)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Your fallacy has been exposed.

You try compare my question to dogs shitting in yards.

I never said "Name which dogs!". You said it and are trying to put words in my mouth.

Now you say that if it would be absurd if your comparison to dogs shitting in yards is rejected.

You would do better by actually presenting some facts like you keep treatening to do but never seem to get around to doing.

You say my facts are false but you don't have any.

You do nothing but make personal attacks. You are trying to start a flame war because you don't have any facts to discuss.

Lets stick to the discussion of facts and not personalities or opinions.

---

24 Jul 11 - 06:11 PM (#3194535)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Who needs to defend something they did not say?

Unclear. You'll have to be more specific. If, by chance, you are referring to my challenge to GfS to clarify his contradictory remarks, I was blindingly clear about which remarks.

You are making statements that you need to defend.

Unclear. You'll have to be more specific. Which statements?

Filngin insults is the way the Tea Party haters operate.

Unclear. You'll have to be more specific. If by some chance you are saying that I was flinging insults, or expressing hatefulness, tell me what struck you that way and I'll tell you why I said it.

And finally it is the Democrats who are now overspending and diluting your savings.

Yep. They all do it. As of now, I still have some money for retirement. Shutting down the government for uncompromising ideological reasons, however, is a whole different ballgame. A lot of very smart people tell us it could cause a depression and wipe everyone out entirely.

You seem to be saying that it is OK for the Tea Party to ruin our economy because Democrats have spent money that didn't have enough revenue to support it. You also, by extension of the logical structure of you statement, seem to be saying the Republicans have been model protectors of our economy. Do you really think so?

Did the Tea Party ruin people's retirements in Greece?

BZZTT!! Non-sequiter!! Does not compute!!

"Give us what we want or we will shoot this economy!"
Who said that? You said it and you are trying to put the words in some else's mouth

I don't know -- I didn't say it, and didn't say that anyone else said it. Jeez, Lazy McLazy, the post you are responding to was only a few posts ago. Wake up!

---

24 Jul 11 - 07:01 PM (#3194573)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Sawzaw, you are a hopeless nincompoop.

By using the example of "dogs pooping in yards," I was not saying that YOU said it, I was giving you a reduction ad absurdum example of your spurious attack on Bobert. As I said, reductio ad absurdum is a logical device for EXPOSING a spurious argument, which YOU keep making against Bobert.

You are either writhing like a trapped snake or you are abysmally stupid ill-informed about the rules of rational debate (established by Aristotle over two millennia ago).

And as to not having facts, we have presented many facts have been presented to you, but you stubbornly refuse to recognize them as such because you just don't like them. Too bad about you.

You must lead a very limited life.

Don Firth

---

24 Jul 11 - 07:50 PM (#3194610)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Exactly, Don...

Rather than produce actual facts on their own the Dynamic-Dupes accept everything they read on the web as the God's honest truth... Ahhhhh, as long as some right wing blogger who is being paid big buck to propagate lies and misinformation for the rich has written it... I don't think that either could actually do much better than Sarah Palin when she was asked, "What newspapers do you read?"...

They are caught in the right wing wind tunnel where every bit of so-called news is propaganda and, like their Tea Party heroes, they really couldn't give a flying fuck if what they are being told is the truth or lies or whatever???

This is the maddening part about trying to debate/discuss policy with these people... First, they don't have the educational background to keep up and second, they don't care if the stuff they say has any factual basis...

I mean, ignorance is America's BIGGEST enemy and right now it abounds...

And these people are so ignorant that they really don't care if America succeeds or fails because they don't know the difference between these to concepts...

This isn't meant to be a put down to score points... It's just an observation and a major concern for the future of out country...

I mean, deep down inside, I think Charles Manson would make a better Representative than 90% of these Tea Partiers... I mean, yeah, he is crazy so you wouldn't want him to have any guns but I never thought of him as being stupid...

B~

---

24 Jul 11 - 10:00 PM (#3194677)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"What the Tea Old Party is doing now with the debt limit amounts to terrorism"

When it was Obama's time to vote for raising the debt limit in 2006, he voted no. Was he a terrorist for being against raising the debt limit?

He said "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

Sounds exactly like the Tea Party position to me.

In 2007 when the Democratically controlled Senate voted to increase the limit by $850 billion and in 2008 when the Democratically controlled Senate voted to increase the limit by $800 billion Obama did not vote against it. He did not vote at all. Too busy doing other things like making campaign promises like reducing the deficit.

Obama voted for TARP, which raised debt $700 billion and said it was "a necessary thing to do"

---

24 Jul 11 - 10:11 PM (#3194681)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Who proposed TARP, Jerko???

1. Bush

2. Obama

Who signed TARP into law, Jerko???

1. Bush

2. Obama

You are eat up stupid & ignorant, Jerko...

Carry on, bottom feeders...

B~

---

24 Jul 11 - 10:17 PM (#3194684)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"I was not saying that YOU said it"

But you said "Then Sawzaw comes in and demands, "Name which dogs!""

How do the words get typed into a post if you did not type them in?

I did not say those words you put in quotes. You said them.

Just like Bobert does when he thinks up some horrible racial slur, puts it in quotes and because it is are in quotes he can pretend someone else said those words and than he can connect them to terrorism, racism, violence etc, based on these made up quotes.
Qotes mean that someone actually said these words.

Example: Perdue OWL states "The primary function of quotation marks is to set off and represent exact language (either spoken or written) that has come from somebody else."

---

24 Jul 11 - 10:32 PM (#3194686)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

John P

Where does GFS claim any one has a liberal idiot conspiracy brainwashed agenda?

You are concocting things and challenging them to defend something you claim they said.

---

24 Jul 11 - 11:45 PM (#3194702)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

While we're talking about terrorist organizations, why don't we cut to the chase and talk about the really BIG ones!

Like...national armies and departments of "defense" in countries that like to fight wars. Know what I mean? Armies. Navies. Air forces. People who drop atomic bombs on cities, invade countries, and kill not just a few thousands, but hundreds of thousands or even millions of people.

They are the world's champion terrorists. And they always have been. The others are small potatoes in comparison, and to go so far as to name the Tea Party a terrorist organization is gross hyperbole on a truly ridiculous level.

---

25 Jul 11 - 12:28 AM (#3194721)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

I presume Jerko??? is one of those intelligent, highly educated social worker terms.

If it refers to me.

"who proposed TARP, Jerko???"

Paulson & Bernanke

"Who signed TARP into law, Jerko???"

George W. Bush on October 3, 2008

Now that I have answered your cordial and respectful questions, please answer mine:

Who supported Tarp and said it was a "necessary thing to do" kind Sir?

1 Obama

2 Harry Reid

3 Bobert

Hint

What political party cast the most Yea votes in the Senate for TARP (39 out of 74). learned professor?

1 Republicans

2 Democrats

3 Independants

Hint

What political party cast the most Nay votes in the Senate (15 out of 25) ?

1 Republicans

2 Democrats

3 Independants

Hint

---

25 Jul 11 - 12:29 AM (#3194722)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Sawzaw, the best you can come up with is to raise questions about my punctuation? Me, who spent three years in the University of Washington Department of English and Creative Writing before I changed my major to Music? Me, who has worked as a radio station's news director? Me, whose spent several years working as a technical writer and editor? Me, who has had about thirty magazine articles published?

Yeah, I suppose I could have made a punctuation error. It happens.

Nevertheless, I did NOT say that YOU said it. I was quoting myself. You missed that? Flunked remedial reading, eh? Too bad!

Is that the BEST you've got?

Imbecile!!
Tsk, tsk, tsk. . . .

Don Firth

---

25 Jul 11 - 12:37 AM (#3194724)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Oh, dear me!! I just made yet ANOTHER boo-boo, this time grammatical. In the sentence that reads "Me, whose spent several years working as a technical writer and editor?" that should read "Me, who spent several years working as a technical writer and editor?"

Should I go looking for punctuation mistakes and grammatical errors in your posts, Sawzaw? Well, probably not. You can always blame them on the Right Wing web sites and blogs you cut-and-pasted them from.

Don Firth

---

25 Jul 11 - 12:50 AM (#3194727)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

Ah, yes, well I'll leave you gents alone to fight about how many nits perched on the head of a pin stuck in the body politik...when...where...and whose party those nits belonged to! ;-)

Have fun eviscerating one another's personalities at your respective leisure.

---

25 Jul 11 - 08:56 AM (#3194850)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Don Firth, you need to look at this link.

You bear part of the blame.

---

25 Jul 11 - 09:35 AM (#3194867)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Being as there is an over abundance of squirming, and finger pointing, and nasty gibberish, try Googling "'ALEC' Koch"....being as I have to do your homework for you...while you're too busy being partisan, and stupid! Jeez, I can make a better case than you can, AGAINST the Kochs! You're all too busy with petty shit, that's thrown out there, for small minded grazing!!!...I bet YOU didn't know that, did you???!!!

What a bunch of ninnies!..including.

Soros has the same shit!...

So..Do you want Koch's agenda?..or Soros's...or the IMF'?.....Or would any of you be interested in the TRUTH, in the 'news(?) media' and letting the people decide...in this 'so-called' Democracy?????????!!!!!!!!!????!!!!

Now shove it!

GfS

---

25 Jul 11 - 09:54 AM (#3194884)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Where does GFS claim any one has a liberal idiot conspiracy brainwashed agenda?

He didn't. Nor did I say he did, Lazy McLazy. Wake up! Or are you being conversationally obstructionist on purpose?

---

25 Jul 11 - 09:59 AM (#3194888)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Hey GfS, please tell me how you can claim to want freedom for all Americans and to follow the letter of the Constitution while also inveighing against gay folks having equal treatment under the law and curtailed freedoms.

If you want to be part of a discussion you have to reconcile your contradictory statements. Otherwise, no one has any reason to take you seriously, you see. You become nothing up some asshole farting. You don't want that do you?

---

25 Jul 11 - 10:07 AM (#3194889)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

VERY funny cartoon, Jack! ;-D I like it.

But why stop at merely calling the Tea Party a "Terrorist Organization" in the ridiculous title that labels this thread? How about:

BS: The Tea Party a Plot to End ALL LIFE AS WE KNOW IT????

or

BS: The Tea Party more dangerous than Hitler on Steroids????

or

BS: The Tea Party bent on sucking the blood from virgins and raping minority children????

I mean, hey, folks, let's get right down to calm reason here and address the serious political issues of our time, shall we?

---

25 Jul 11 - 10:08 AM (#3194891)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Little Hawk: Dante.

Sorry, Don, I beat you to it.

---

25 Jul 11 - 10:12 AM (#3194894)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Thanks, LH.

I think that you in particular might be on shaky ground criticizing hyperbole.

---

25 Jul 11 - 10:32 AM (#3194916)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Little Hawk

Well, Jack, my hyperbole is usually done for satirical reasons. I seek to leaven the constant political bile and nastiness around here by making fun of it, thereby perhaps pulling the mask off the darker emotional passions that are driving it.

Will it make any difference? Probably not! But then, neither does all the self-righteous raving on these political threads by the soreheads who come here to fight with one another every day make any difference to anything either! So we're all dead even on that, aren't we?

We do it simply because it gives our minds something to chew on for the moment...and because we can't resist not doing it. ;-) I know that. I see it plainly. How about you?

---

25 Jul 11 - 12:49 PM (#3195037)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

John P: "Hey GfS, please tell me how you can claim to want freedom for all Americans and to follow the letter of the Constitution while also inveighing against gay folks having equal treatment under the law and curtailed freedoms."

Like ALL you have to rail about is those who TRUTHFULLY Know what the homosexual is and is NOT! You, and your ilk, seem to ONLY care about that one hot button issue..(as if that is another sign of 'maturity') So here it is, one more fucking time, the homosexual issue is NOT a genetic deal...and no one, not even our illustrious Mr. Firth has produced one shred of evidence linking homosexuality to genes...not even when he produced a link to a study, conducted by a homosexual researcher!!!..who claimed that there was NO conclusive anything of the sort!..THEREFORE, it could not, or cannot be given Constitutional guarantees under the 'race, creed or color clause'!..HOWEVER, they can do just about anything they want to do, under the 'pursuit of happiness' clause. Anyone who argues, that marriage is the same as a 'domestic partnership' is guilty of twisting definitions to fit an agenda. Conversely, those who argue FOR not allowing Homosexuals, to co-habitate, as domestic partners, on religious grounds, are also in error, as so far as 'religious' arguments, are not binding Constitutionally!!! The rest is just some segment of a political wing trying to make hay, and loopholes in the supreme law of the land!
Now enough of that stupid and inane bullshit!! Get it? Got it! Good!

In regards to the Kochs, Soros, IMF, AND THJE REST of the 'special interests'....as I've been saying for over three years on here, IT IS THE CORRUPTION of our system, and the propagandist's industrialization, in the media owned and influenced by those same, corrupt 'pieces of shit' people, that has the whole of the country completely disoriented!

Everybody, at present, is awaiting some sort of 'deal' or resolution in regards to the 'debt ceiling'. Everybody is blaming the 'other party' for holding things up.....HERE IT IS(believe it or not, and argue about it or not)...The 'remedy' is NOT going to be made by a political party, of either side...it will be made BY THE INTERNATIONAL MONEY GUYS, FOR THEIR ADVANTAGE, NOT OURS AND 'DELIVERED' through the 'party system' to the public, and the people WILL NOT be represented, nor allowed to make a choice. In other words, we will be dictated to, sans ANY Democratic process, by and for the furthering agenda of the globalist's bankers, for the purpose of setting into place THEIR system of THEIR control!!

You don't like it????...well don't blame me, for telling you the TRUTH!

Jeez!

GfS

---

25 Jul 11 - 12:54 PM (#3195044)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Correction of a word...delete the other post, please!


John P: "Hey GfS, please tell me how you can claim to want freedom for all Americans and to follow the letter of the Constitution while also inveighing against gay folks having equal treatment under the law and curtailed freedoms."

Like ALL you have to rail about is those who TRUTHFULLY Know what the homosexual is and is NOT! You, and your ilk, seem to ONLY care about that one hot button issue..(as if that is another sign of 'maturity') So here it is, one more fucking time, the homosexual issue is NOT a genetic deal...and no one, not even our illustrious Mr. Firth has produced one shred of evidence linking homosexuality to genes...not even when he produced a link to a study, conducted by a homosexual researcher!!!..who claimed that there was NO conclusive anything of the sort!..THEREFORE, it could not, or cannot be given Constitutional guarantees under the 'race, creed or color clause'!..HOWEVER, they can do just about anything they want to do, under the 'pursuit of happiness' clause. Anyone who argues, that marriage is the same as a 'domestic partnership' is guilty of twisting definitions to fit an agenda. Conversely, those who argue FOR not allowing Homosexuals, to co-habitate, as domestic partners, on religious grounds, are also in error, as so far as 'religious' arguments, are not binding Constitutionally!!! The rest is just some segment of a political wing trying to make hay, and loopholes in the supreme law of the land!
Now enough of that stupid and inane bullshit!! Get it? Got it! Good!

In regards to the Kochs, Soros, IMF, AND THJE REST of the 'special interests'....as I've been saying for over three years on here, IT IS THE CORRUPTION of our system, and the propagandist's indoctrination, in the media owned and influenced by those same, corrupt 'pieces of shit' people, that has the whole of the country completely disoriented!

Everybody, at present, is awaiting some sort of 'deal' or resolution in regards to the 'debt ceiling'. Everybody is blaming the 'other party' for holding things up.....HERE IT IS(believe it or not, and argue about it or not)...The 'remedy' is NOT going to be made by a political party, of either side...it will be made BY THE INTERNATIONAL MONEY GUYS, FOR THEIR ADVANTAGE, NOT OURS AND 'DELIVERED' through the 'party system' to the public, and the people WILL NOT be represented, nor allowed to make a choice. In other words, we will be dictated to, sans ANY Democratic process, by and for the furthering agenda of the globalist's bankers, for the purpose of setting into place THEIR system of THEIR control!!

You don't like it????...well don't blame me, for telling you the TRUTH!

Jeez!

GfS

---

25 Jul 11 - 01:01 PM (#3195047)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

I see the humour in you mocking hyperbole. I enjoy the irony? Isn't that enough?

---

25 Jul 11 - 01:22 PM (#3195067)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Gettin' ***NOISY*** in here...

Guess some folks think that if they ***SCREAM*** loud enough it will make their arguments correct... Seems over my life time the folks who have to scream are the ones who are the most wrong...

B~

---

25 Jul 11 - 02:02 PM (#3195098)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Bobert: "Guess some folks think that if they ***SCREAM*** loud enough it will make their arguments correct... Seems over my life time the folks who have to scream are the ones who are the most wrong..."


I'm sure that most of your life people have been screaming at you!
...and I'm not wrong,...as you know!

Until then, "Silences is golden...duct tape it silver"!!

GfS

---

25 Jul 11 - 02:28 PM (#3195116)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Now enough of that stupid and inane bullshit!! Get it? Got it! Good!

Well, no, I still don't get it. You haven't explained why -- whether gays are that way genetically or not -- you claim to want freedom for all Americans but want to limit freedom for some Americans.

Perhaps we should take another tack: What is you definition of "freedom" as it applies to Americans' belief that we are the "Land of the Free"? What does this freedom mean to you? Should all the freedoms any of us enjoy be applied to all of us, as we are promised in the Constitution? If not, why not?

I know that the right wing has tried to make the concept of a nuanced response into some sort of nancy-boy response, but those of us who want to solve actual problems understand that these are big, complicated issues that can't be solved with slogans and quick answers. The big problem with your positions on the Constitutionality of gay marriage is that it only goes to the first, most basic exchange of ideas on the subject: "They don't deserve it!" seems to be your basic message. You don't seem to be able to address the 2nd point that comes up (which is "why not", in case you want to know), much less the tenth.

Sorry, you can blow me off as much as you want, but your inability or unwillingness to reconcile your own contradictory statements turns you into the farting asshole I mentioned earlier. Screaming "FREEDOM" without any real desire for freedom for all is just hypocritical and rather stupid sounding. No one will take you seriously as an intelligent human being.

---

25 Jul 11 - 02:42 PM (#3195127)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

GfS, you are, indeed, a liar. Or you, too, flunked remedial reading. I never said that same-sex orientation is genetic. I said—and cited a number of articles (Scientific American, for example), presenting the case that there is strong evidence to indicate that sexual orientation is genetic, although as yet the genes themselves have not been located. There ARE differences between the brain structures of heterosexuals and homosexuals, but at this point it is not known for certain if these differences are the cause or the result.

That is a scientific and carefully reasoned position at this stage of the research, holding ultimate conclusions in abeyance, pending further research.

You, on the other hand, have claimed unequivocally that homosexuality is a matter of free choice, and that it can be cured through counseling—

And then, you went on to claim that YOU were a counselor and HAVE cured homosexuals of their homosexuality. By the way, don't try to deny that you claimed this, because I can link people to the posts where you said it.

In carefully monitored studies of attempts to "cure" homosexuality through counseling, often including such methods as "aversion therapy" (Example: presenting some manner of homoerotic stimulus and then subjecting the patient to electric shock), the figures indicated that the counseling and therapy were either totally ineffective or were actually psychologically damaging to the subject. Out of two hundred subjects, after the course of treatment, there was, within a few months, a 68% recidivism rate, some 23% abstained from sex altogether, determining to remain celibate, about 30% (note that these percentages are not exclusive; there were overlaps) had to be treated for severe depression, and six of the subjects committed suicide. Other attempts at "conversion therapy" have produced similar results.

So much for "curing" same-sex orientation through counseling.

By the way, GfS, if you were EVER any kind of counselor, then I am the Grand Exalted PooBah of the Nine Galaxies!

And, GfS, before you try to do a riff on me, I am not homosexual, never have been homosexual, don't plan on becoming homosexual, and have never engaged in any kind of homosexual relationship or activity. And I have been happily married—to a woman of great loveliness and talent—for thirty-four years.

You, on the other hand, have indicated in former threads (although you later denied it) that you have very good reason to be afraid of your own genetic make-up, hence your knee-jerk reaction to any mention of the possibility that genes have anything to do with sexual orientation.

Stop chewing your fingernails. It's a nervous habit and it's unsightly.

Don Firth

P. S.   New York State has just taken a long step toward civilization.

---

25 Jul 11 - 04:14 PM (#3195216)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Don Firth: "
GfS, you are, indeed, a liar. Or you, too, flunked remedial reading. I never said that same-sex orientation is genetic. I said—and cited a number of articles (Scientific American, for example), presenting the case that there is strong evidence to indicate that sexual orientation is genetic, although as yet the genes themselves have not been located. There ARE differences between the brain structures of heterosexuals and homosexuals, but at this point it is not known for certain if these differences are the cause or the result.

That is a scientific and carefully reasoned position at this stage of the research, holding ultimate conclusions in abeyance, pending further research.

You, on the other hand, have claimed unequivocally that homosexuality is a matter of free choice, and that it can be cured through counseling—

And then, you went on to claim that YOU were a counselor and HAVE cured homosexuals of their homosexuality. By the way, don't try to deny that you claimed this, because I can link people to the posts where you said it."


YOU ARE A LIAR!!

GfS

---

25 Jul 11 - 04:22 PM (#3195217)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Wow...

Someone needs to take a chill pill... And it ain't don... Hmmmmmm??? Who could it be???

B;~)

---

25 Jul 11 - 04:38 PM (#3195230)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Tell you what, GfS, I can go and get your posts from the Prop 8 thread and either link to them or cut and paste them here, so that people can verify for themselves just who the liar is.

I'd be happy to do it for you.

Or would you prefer to just get off this bus and save yourself a whole septic tank full of embarrassment?

Your choice.

Don Firth

---

25 Jul 11 - 04:45 PM (#3195236)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Hey, he is having a good time. Is it at the expense of someone eles' sensibilities and feelings? Probably.

When actual sanity prevails I suggest we try to embrace the tea party that lives in various members to perhaps disuade the contemptuous cultural competition and selfishness that often leads to sensless shootings.

---

25 Jul 11 - 06:11 PM (#3195310)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Do it!

GfS

---

25 Jul 11 - 06:22 PM (#3195322)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Okey dokey.

It'll take a bit of time because the thread where you made these self-revelatory statements runs over 4,000 posts, but my afternoon is fairly loose. Might be later this afternoon or tomorrow morning, but just remember, you asked for it!

Boy, is this gonna be a snort!

Don Firth

---

25 Jul 11 - 08:42 PM (#3195383)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

I suggest we try to embrace the tea party

Hmmm.....embrace ignorance, stupidity, cupidity & lies.

Don't see how that'll help much.

---

25 Jul 11 - 09:00 PM (#3195396)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

AHA thank you Greg, that is a good question.

When dealing with a group of repressed men who have deep affection for secret societies and a love affair with guns we have to first know they exist and second open them up to any kind of communication to have any hope of educating or defusing the dark violence that is both real and inevitable from such men.

Stig Larsen wrote about the dark right wing in the crevides of Scandanavian society. He recieved many death threats in response to his two novels.

What percentage of the US Tea Party has a similar potential as the Norwegian Nationaist terrorists I do not know. But I do know that a dialog has advantages with such people while shootings and jail is a response that comes too late.

---

25 Jul 11 - 09:12 PM (#3195404)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

But I do know that a dialog has advantages with such people...

I can't see how trying to have a rational dialog with ignorant idiots, lunatics and psychopaths would help much, either.

Assuming its even possible- which I doubt.

---

25 Jul 11 - 09:19 PM (#3195408)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

While you're sniffing, find this one, too:

Don posts: "You, on the other hand, have indicated in former threads (although you later denied it) that you have very good reason to be afraid of your own genetic make-up, hence your knee-jerk reaction to any mention of the possibility that genes have anything to do with sexual orientation."

Anyone can say anything, and you put words in people's mouths, that they NEVER said!..but proving, the words YOU say I said, as shown earlier in this thread, becomes quite another thing! ...and you've been called on this dumb tactic of yours, before....

GfS

---

25 Jul 11 - 10:19 PM (#3195427)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

PPFFTT! Whew! That stinks. GfS, PLEASE stop farting in public.

That's all you're doing, you know, until you can explain why you, like the Tea Party, talk a lot about freedom and the Constitution but don't have the ability or the willingness to articulate what freedom really means or what the Constitution actually says. You and they both claim to love America, but clearly don't like Americans. PPFFTT!

---

25 Jul 11 - 10:27 PM (#3195434)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

John Petty:"....Constitution but don't have the ability or the willingness to articulate what freedom really means or what the Constitution actually says."

Like being forced to buy health insurance????

GfS

---

25 Jul 11 - 10:35 PM (#3195436)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Doing or saying nothing is a prescription for the domestic terrorists to act out thier plans.

---

25 Jul 11 - 10:56 PM (#3195447)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Like being forced to buy health insurance????

Ah yes, the old shift the ground and attack on another topic ploy. Always useful when you can't make a rational response to the actual conversation. PPPFFTT! More farting in public, GfS.

---

26 Jul 11 - 12:27 AM (#3195495)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

John. you seemed obsessed with farting....What is this?..Mating season??

GfS

---

26 Jul 11 - 12:43 AM (#3195500)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Sorry, GfS, you're doing all the farting. It's my new term for people like you who are fantastically hypocritical and don't have anything cogent to say but keep spouting off in public anyway. This is a big similarity between you and the Tea Party. Your posts are as stinky and offensive as farts. Get it now?

I'll try to be more serious: What do you mean when you talk about freedom for Americans? What is your understanding of what it means to run our country according to the Constitution?

Oh, shit, I already tried that. I think I'll go back to calling attention to your fart mouth. It's way more entertaining and seems to produce the same results from you. More farts! PPFFTT!

---

26 Jul 11 - 01:47 AM (#3195513)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Johnny: "Oh, shit, I already tried that. I think I'll go back to calling attention to your fart mouth. It's way more entertaining and seems to produce the same results from you. More farts! PPFFTT!"

Hey, if I want any shit from you, I'll squeeze your face!

Jeez!..It sounds like a barroom brawl!..well maybe a coffee house brawl..and some of you are sure getting a lot of lumps!..but before the 'barkeep' shuts the thread down(even though it HAS been rather entertaining), Let's wait for Donny-Babes to find that mysterious, elusive post!...We may be on here a lo-o-o-o-ng time!

Bobert found the duct tape....and while using it, I hope he found out a LOT more stuff about the Koch Bros. that he never knew before..(He should have thanked me!)

What a turkey shoot!!!

GfS

---

26 Jul 11 - 09:12 AM (#3195749)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

In all seriousness, GfS, mouth farting is a very good analogy for what you and the Tea Party do: a rude noise, a bad stench, and nothing behind it but a lot of hot air.

You and the Tea Party claim to want freedom but your thoughts on the matter are so shallow as to be laughable. You are unable to articulate anything other than a morass of disconnected thoughts that don't bear even the most cursory examination, but you like to display them loudly at every opportunity.

Anytime you get tired of farting and me calling attention to it, try discussing the meaning of freedom or the Constitution. We'll have a great conversation.

Until then, PPFFTT!

---

26 Jul 11 - 09:35 AM (#3195762)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

No duct tape here... Just busy and went out to hear T Model Ford last night in some dive in Charlotte...

You are 100% wrong on the Koch brothers spending, GfinS... The stuff above the table makes Soros's look like chump change... Then, like an iceberg, 90% of it is under that table (legally) now that the Republican packed Supremes have opened up the doors for massive right wing corporate money to flow into elections without any disclosure or restrictions...

All one has to do is pay attention to the "media buy" time to see who has the big $$$s...

Haven't seen one single progressive ad in over a year on televison (cable of) but the corporations are hammering Obama every night... Thousands and thousands of media buys...

But you don't care about that as long as it's your side that has rigged the deck, do you...

John is correct... You ***are*** a hypocrite... You blast the corporations one day saying they control everything on "both sides" but have no interest in the reality the big $$$ ain't going to progressives, or centrists but 99% to you right winged heros...

Hypocrite!!!

B~

---

26 Jul 11 - 11:29 AM (#3195829)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

The Tea-o-Cratic Party is made up of radical religious people who are not secular and don't believe in Separation of Church and State. As a result, they believe that government as it stands now should be destroyed and replaced by a Christian Theocracy. This is the real basis for their opposing any legislation that Obama is offering. The Republicans have been taken over by these theocrats and that explains their obstinate adherence to a totally phony "austerity" program which is calculated to destroy the Obama presidency and castigate Democrats. Both the Democrats and Republicans are in denial and this issue doesn't get mentioned as a result. There are some libertarians who are opposed on philosophical ratrher than religious grounds and followers of Paul Ryan and Ayn Rand but they are in the minority when it comes to the Tea-o-Cratic Party. In the meantime, the Koch Brothers and Karl Rove are playing the religious card for all it's worth by supporting it as a means to their ends.

It's not only an economic war that governs Republican policy but a Culture War as well.

---

26 Jul 11 - 11:30 AM (#3195831)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Now that's a stretch. You and Don should open a pretzel factory!

GfS

---

26 Jul 11 - 11:47 AM (#3195847)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger

State of denial. Where's the sanity?

---

26 Jul 11 - 12:54 PM (#3195899)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Another baseless theory!
Look guys, the Tea Party's appeal is to citizens who are freaked out, as to the way things are, and have been in Washington. A great deal of them haven't even heard of the Koch's....even though, I would agree, that the Koch's are funneling money and support into the party.
Do I agree with everything they say?...NO.
Do I agree with everything the Democrats say?...NO.
Do I agree with the GOP?..NO
Do I agree with everything Mudcatters say??...Well, so far they haven't had much of anything coherent to say, other than they are a bunch of discontented whiners, whose so-called 'left' leaning mindset is obviously coming unraveled...and instead of making 'adjustments' and/or 'corrections', even in the light of FACTS, some just turn into nasty little bitches.

Oh, and Don,..remember what you are looking for? This is your claim that I said: "And then, you went on to claim that YOU were a counselor and HAVE cured homosexuals of their homosexuality."

The part about being a counselor was indeed correct..the other, well you just made that up!...

But this is what I did say, "Personally, I don't care how a person takes their sex....but that should be a personal matter..and not rub it in all our faces, and force us to accept it as law!!...even when it goes against the majority will of the people."

AND THIS: "Thank God for natural selection! When the stupid idiots don't get it, let nature step in and give them a clue!! Personally, there is no need to legislate a thing! This whole thing is a backlash to the homosexuals pushing their agendas down everyone's throat...and excuse the majority for objecting!!!!!
Whether you like it or not, homosexuality (until the politically 'correct' assholes, pushed it onto the medical community), has always been listed as a dysfunctional behavior, where one gender, through one of several reasons, develops a sense of inability, to resolve understanding and communication differences with the opposite sex, usually from hostility, emotional focus, and unforgiveness towards a like gender parent and reverts to a pubescent experimental stage, of sexuality, which causes little or no challenge to expand beyond immature behavioral patterns.....Much the same behavior is seen in younger girls who like to 'dress up like 'mommy'(which is normal for pre-pubescent girls), homosexuals like to dress up like 'married'. To actually push that agenda onto a functioning society, is the product of a group of people who have physically matured, and not emotionally matured as well.....And if you don't like it, that is only a product of your political bent...which of course, is not to be confused with mental health."

OR THIS: "Ok, Then give a name to two people who proclaim publicly that they want to live together, and have children that they conceive themselves, and raise that family together. HINT: Its a name they use world over, from Samoa, to Tibet, Europe, Asia, China, Russi, Australia, South, and Central America, North America..and recognized globally. Then ask yourselves, is this the same situation that warrants the same name of two people who have an inability to do that, because of their sexual orientation.

It's called 'Marriage'...and I KNOW, so you don't have to beat a dead horse, that not all couples who get married, don't do it, for the reason of having children..however, that IS the model, and families ARE the basic fabric of civilizations and societies. It is no wonder, why 'redefining' what that basic building block is, that some people, whether religious based, or not, see that eroding away of that foundation, see it as a threat to their nations, culture, or society...especially when they are so vehement, in their attacks! If they want a different sexual 'preference'..they don't have to advertise is and throw it in everyone's face!..In like manner, nobody, inquires on here as to their sexuality to deny them of any dialogues or rights! Do we have to know how your wives squeak, or how you groan, or where you like it????...I do-o-o-n't think so!!

So, if they want to do what they do, the way they do, then call it whatever they want...but it is not 'Marriage' as known the world over, by every established society....any more than when a little girl dresses up in mommy's dresses and wears her high heels, makes her a woman or mother!!!"

OR THIS?: "From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 04:40 AM"

Or THIS GEM...From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 04:40 AM: " Acceptable??? To whom? me? No..I think its lame, unnecessary, dysfunctional, dishonest to one's own self, lying to himself about his own gender, and sad...and I understand it! Absolutely tragic!..from both sides. Acceptable?..Maybe to you ..but then you have given yourself little option...and intentionally stay comfortable in your lack of knowledge or understanding. That, too, is sad.

Personally, I think that unless a man, mounts a woman, and with her hearty help, at least one time in their life, for the soul purpose of bringing forth a life, and willing to raise that child with her, keeping LOVE as the central focus of their family, you can take all the mystics, politicians, religious fanatics, and used car salesmen, and go bark and howl at the moon, for anything they want...and it won't take away the fact, of the wonder of that miracle, nor will they argue it away. Doing that, is the hottest experience humans can do well, on this planet!...Now if you haven't done that...what did you want to say???

I can't hear you.........
(Don't even post it)   

Or THIS ONE: (From: From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 06:51 PM
"Donny Firth: "No, GfS, we do NOT know that it is not genetic. YOU don't want to believe it, so in your mind, it isn't. But there is plenty of evidence demonstrating that gender orientation IS genetic. The specific gene or genes have not been isolated yet, but the basic principles of genetics established by Gregor Mendel in the 19th century definitely point to this being the case.

I, and many geneticists, feel confident that the gene(s) will be found soon. If it hasn't been yet, that doesn't mean that it won't be."


That is speculation. Since when have 'civil rights' issues, regarding the law, are passed on speculation?????

You need to do a bit better....shit, let's speculate that 2012 everything is going to be destroyed..and pass a law that we party till then, at government expense!!..EQUALLY!!

Nope!..Bad foundation to build a case on!!

GfS

Or THIS ONE: From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 07:26 PM

"Rave on, little critter. There is ample evidence that gender orientation is indeed genetic to make the civil rights issue valid."

And THIS ONE: From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:27 PM
"Okay, both questions are answered by the fact that the "homosexual gene" is carried by one or more females in the family into which the homosexual male is born. And the gene in question seems to relate to an inconsistency, or "mis-timing," in when particular hormones are released to the male fetus when the female in question is pregnant."


Don Firth

AND THEN HE SAYS THIS NOW...on this thread!!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:14 PM

Don Firth:"GfS, you are, indeed, a liar. Or you, too, flunked remedial reading. I never said that same-sex orientation is genetic..."

...and I have more.......(just thought I'd help you out!)

GfS

---

26 Jul 11 - 01:07 PM (#3195914)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

"Look guys, the Tea Party's appeal is to citizens who are freaked out, as to the way things are, and have been in Washington."

Only stupid fantasy seekers think that. The Tea Party is a clumsy rebranding of the Republican right wing fringe

---

26 Jul 11 - 01:35 PM (#3195938)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Okay, GfS, when I cited a couple of things you said on a previous thread (the Prop 8 thread), you denied it that you said it, and in your post of 25 Jul 11 - 04:14 p.m. above, you called me a "LIAR," all in caps.

We've done this little dance before, and you keep coming up looking like a horse's ass. Case in point:    On the Prop 8 thread, you kept insisting that there was absolutely nothing genetic about gender orientation, and offered as proof that you, a counselor, had cured homosexuals of their abnormality. When challenged on this, you went on to present more evidence for your position by offering the following bit of personal history:

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity - PM
Date: 06 May 09 - 12:38 AM

Again, from the 'For what its worth Department': (If you want the link, I'll post it.

Resolved Question
Show me another »
When are those that are trying to prove there is a gene that causes one to be gay going to give up?
Billions of dollars have already been spent to no avail. No one experiment has proved and concluded that there is a "gay gene," and no one ever will.

Additional Details
By the way, all of those who think that I have no experience with this, and that I'm just spouting from no experience with this issue, you should know that my father CHOSE a homosexual lifestyle after he had 6 children with my mother.

Not to get to personal, but to squash any type of statement about my father already being gay, I'll explain this. He was molested when he was a child by his father and uncle. He learned how to deal with the shame and pain of this act by storing it inside and never talking about it. This, undoubtedly, led to prolonged psychological effects that plagued him and eventually chose him to choose his lifestyle.

This is followed by—

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM
Date: 06 May 09 - 04:01 AM

""By the way, all of those who think that I have no experience with this, and that I'm just spouting from no experience with this issue, you should know that my father CHOSE a homosexual lifestyle after he had 6 children with my mother.""

If true, that would certainly explain the degree of bile in your attitude.

It is still not, however, proof that would stand up in any court, of your father's "lifestyle choice", as opposed to his "predisposition".

Many gays have had hetero relationships before coming out.

One thing YOU might like to ponder, though.

If, as you so desperately need to believe, homosexuality is not genetic in origin, but learned behaviour, does it not NECESSARILY follow that heterosexuality is also a "lifestyle choice" in the opposite direction?

If this is so, then the question of "normality" or "deviance" surely does not arise.

In which case, notwithstanding which group is in the majority, the argument IS simply about equal rights in law.

You can't have it both ways, you know.

Don T.

Then, I once again confronted you with the question of why you are so adamant about there being no genetic connection in the face of so much evidence that there might very well be, and that the book was not closed yet. I pointed out what you had said about your father's defection, and offered the suggestion that perhaps your intransigence on the issue was prompted less by any scientific knowledge, but more by fear of what your own genes might contain.

You then had a wall-eyed fit (which was a dead giveaway that I had hit a nerve!), swore that you have never said anything like that, then made the hysterical accusation that I had posted that under your name!

I PMed Joe Offer about your claim that I had written that post rather than you. He PMed me back, saying that he could not guarantee that you personally had written the post about your father, BUT that, checking the IP address from which the post came, it had come from YOUR COMPUTER. Not mine!

So there you have it GfS! You lied. And then you lied about lying. And then you tried to wipe the egg off your chin by accusing ME of lying.

And now you're doing it AGAIN.

GfS, repeatedly you get caught with your pants down and your hand in the cooking jar. Not to mention, the egg on your face.

No, I doubt that you were ever any kind of counselor. If you ever were, then God help your patients! But this I DO know:

You are badly in NEED of some serious counseling. You are one sick puppy!

Now, knock off this crap, GfS, and let sane people get back to the discussion at hand.

Don Firth

---

26 Jul 11 - 03:02 PM (#3196018)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Oh yes, I KNEW you'd pull up that one...what you FAILED to pull up, is my post saying "I DID NOT AUTHOR that post", and asked Joe Offer to check it out as well!...and asked Joe to take it off!!..but he elected to leave it on, because he stated that, yes, in fact it did come from my computer...but IN FACT, I did NOT write that post!

Nor did I Author this bit of folly.."Not to get to personal, but to squash any type of statement about my father already being gay, I'll explain this. He was molested when he was a child by his father and uncle. He learned how to deal with the shame and pain of this act by storing it inside and never talking about it. This, undoubtedly, led to prolonged psychological effects that plagued him and eventually chose him to choose his lifestyle."

My father was NEVER molested as a child!..nor any of the above post is remotely true!!!

What I do suspect is, someone else wrote that post, and the one at 12:38!!..and if you remember I refuted that post!...but you simply ignore that!

Lying through omission.

Perhaps it was one of the musicians who was at the home recording, who thought this argument was stupid..I don't know...but that is and was a post NOT made by me, nor is it true, in any sense!

Get over it!!

,...and by the way, what you are saying, even by posting that bit of nonsense is, that homosexuality was NOT genetic, but acquired through someone's dad and uncle molesting someone...and that caused the person, to be a homosexual...not consistent with your own rap!...So make up your mind!

So, you 'almost' artfully avoided posted anything which shows YOU never said it was 'genetic' and shifted the topic onto a stupid, false and disputed post!

Nice try!...but you are still lying!!

GfS

---

26 Jul 11 - 03:24 PM (#3196038)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Game, set, and match, GfS. You're twisting and writhing like snake in a noose of your own making. Give it up. You're only making yourself look like even more of an ass than you already do.

By the way:   when and where did you receive your degree in psychology? What agency issued your certificate as a psychological or marriage counselor? Where and for how long have you practiced?

Since you have made the claim, these are all fair questions.

Don Firth

---

26 Jul 11 - 03:31 PM (#3196042)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Here's another perfectly fair question, GfS.

Having established (TWICE) that the post in question came from YOUR computer, if YOU didn't write it, then who did?

Don Firth

---

26 Jul 11 - 03:49 PM (#3196058)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: frogprince

"Not to get to personal, but to squash any type of statement about my father already being gay, I'll explain this. He was molested when he was a child by his father and uncle. He learned how to deal with the shame and pain of this act by storing it inside and never talking about it. This, undoubtedly, led to prolonged psychological effects that plagued him and eventually chose him to choose his lifestyle."

",...and by the way, what you are saying, even by posting that bit of nonsense is, that homosexuality was NOT genetic, but acquired through someone's dad and uncle molesting someone...and that caused the person, to be a homosexual...not consistent with your own rap!...So make up your mind!"

By what twist of reasoning can you say that. by quoting a post sent from your computer, Don is "saying" what that post claims to assert?
If I quote from Mein Kampf, making it plain that I'm doing so only to expose the nature of the book, does that constitute my supporting the philosophy in that book?

---

26 Jul 11 - 04:33 PM (#3196102)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Before we go any further...answer yours first, as that's the order it came down!!!..and stop changing the topic!....

You CLAIMED I SAID something I didn't...now prove it or shut up!

So, you 'almost' artfully avoided posted anything which shows YOU never said it was 'genetic' and shifted the topic onto a stupid, false and disputed post!

Nice try!...but you are still lying!!

Or THIS ONE: (From: From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 06:51 PM
"Donny Firth: "No, GfS, we do NOT know that it is not genetic. YOU don't want to believe it, so in your mind, it isn't. But there is plenty of evidence demonstrating that gender orientation IS genetic. The specific gene or genes have not been isolated yet, but the basic principles of genetics established by Gregor Mendel in the 19th century definitely point to this being the case.

I, and many geneticists, feel confident that the gene(s) will be found soon. If it hasn't been yet, that doesn't mean that it won't be."


That is speculation. Since when have 'civil rights' issues, regarding the law, are passed on speculation?????

You need to do a bit better....shit, let's speculate that 2012 everything is going to be destroyed..and pass a law that we party till then, at government expense!!..EQUALLY!!

Nope!..Bad foundation to build a case on!!

GfS

Or THIS ONE: From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 07:26 PM

"Rave on, little critter. There is ample evidence that gender orientation is indeed genetic to make the civil rights issue valid."

And THIS ONE: From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 09:27 PM
"Okay, both questions are answered by the fact that the "homosexual gene" is carried by one or more females in the family into which the homosexual male is born. And the gene in question seems to relate to an inconsistency, or "mis-timing," in when particular hormones are released to the male fetus when the female in question is pregnant."


Don Firth

AND THEN HE SAYS THIS NOW...on this thread!!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:14 PM

Don Firth:"GfS, you are, indeed, a liar. Or you, too, flunked remedial reading. I never said that same-sex orientation is genetic..."

...and I have more.......(just thought I'd help you out!)

GfS

---

26 Jul 11 - 05:29 PM (#3196142)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

You really are a sad piece of work! Read what I said in those posts AGAIN!!

I never said--anywhere--that it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that gender orientation is genetic. What I kept (and keep) saying is that there is a great deal of evidence to indicate that sexual orientation is determined by genetics.

I get this information from sources such as Scientific American and Psychology Today.

Argue with THEM!

Don Firth

---

26 Jul 11 - 05:35 PM (#3196147)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

You can not have a rational discussion with irrational people, Don...

B~

---

26 Jul 11 - 05:44 PM (#3196152)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

So, are you NOW saying that it is NOT genetic?

GfS

---

26 Jul 11 - 06:17 PM (#3196165)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

No, I am not. Nor (no matter how much you lie about it) did I ever say that unequivocally. What I DID say, and what I AM saying is that according to the best scientific evidence available, there is a great likelihood that it IS genetic.

Are you simply incapable of reading plain English?

Sorry, GfS. You can't lay your gender confusion problem on me. It's YOUR problem. YOU deal with it!

Don Firth

(P. S.   I think he loves me. That's why he can't seem to leave me alone. . . .)

---

26 Jul 11 - 06:52 PM (#3196182)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Donny: "(P. S.   I think he loves me. That's why he can't seem to leave me alone. . . .)"

You're the one who brought it back up AGAIN..in an attempt to derail the other topic! I just answered you.
Pretzels anyone?

And as to address you question about who is lying...I proved my point..you have yet to prove yours!
And as to my education....Did it ever occur to you, that my rap about 'receptors', as 'off the wall' as they may have seemed, was just a little more than a 'wild guess'????...When NONE of the 'so-called experts' on here, probably ever heard of such a thing????

Problem is, just like Bobert, I have to cut through so much preconceived bullshit of yours, to prove YOUR points!!!..because of how much misinformation you guys have bought into!..and like I've said to both of you...I'M on YOUR SIDE...as long as 'your side' is rooted in TRUTH, and NOT political hackery and quackery!!!

When you post on music, you are worth reading...but this other stuff is just political dogma!..same with Bob-Babes...that's why you're not getting anywhere..because as time goes on, the political crap, gets found out to be hogwash....and the truth prevails...I only hope our country lasts long enough to recognize what turner out to be truth, versus what turned out to be partisan manipulations, that tend to get people's eyes off the real things going on...like this thread, and it's diversions!!

Fair enough??

P.S. You still were not even close to proving that I was lying...so, at this point, I'll offer you an 'Olive Branch':...quit accusing me of lying, and I'll stop insisting that you prove it!...
..and if you'd like to make a step further, you might actually consider deeper, the things I've run down to you....because I don't post on a LOT of threads,..only the ones that I KNOW what I'm talking about!(unless its for a quick quip).

How 'bout it?
(I make a lot better ally, than adversary!!....as you should have seen by now!!)

GfS

---

26 Jul 11 - 07:24 PM (#3196194)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

"Pre-conceived bullshit", GfinS... I have two college degrees which say that no matter what you think of my posting it is anything but "pre-conceived"... Not only that, I read one heck of a lot of actual newspapers and would more than happy to take you on in any judged debate or exam of knowledge of real world events, economics, history or even, since you Tea Partiers just love the Constitution, the Constitution itself... No notes... Just straight up knowledge...

That's the problem I have with you and Sawz and the rest of the Tea Party... You have bumper sticker solutions that the Koch brothers have stuffed in your head that aren't solutions at all... They are policies that will insure ***their*** success at gaming the system and they have no earthly interest in your well being... Or your families well being... You are being used as political cannon fodder, dupes and pawns by people who wouldn't give a second thought about you if they ran you over in the streets... You are Boss Hogs chattel... You are the new "porch Negroes" and you and your Tea Partiers are eat up with arrogance and complete ignorance...

Square business...

B~

---

26 Jul 11 - 08:33 PM (#3196214)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Joe Offer

Combative terms: "prove it or shut up," "stupid, false and disputed," "political hackery and quackery," "Bob-Babes," "you are, indeed, a liar" "pre-conceived bullshit," etc., etc. You're sounding like a bunch of dour old farts with stale testosterone.I think it's time to cool it down, guys. Otherwise, I'll close the thread.
-Joe Offer-

---

26 Jul 11 - 09:06 PM (#3196231)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Hey, my testosterone ain't stale, Joe... Come right outta this here pill bottle... lol...

B;~)

---

26 Jul 11 - 10:42 PM (#3196273)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

I cannot decipher GfS's continuous incoherent ravings just above, so I'm not going to bother with it. I leave analysis of the above exchange between GfS and myself to any reasonable person who might wish to render a judgment.

I have neither the time nor the patience to argue with someone, who, characteristically through several threads now, will lie his head off even when the plain and simple truth would serve him better.

The exchange between GfS and me is over as far as I'm concerned.

Don Firth

---

26 Jul 11 - 11:07 PM (#3196288)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Good decision, Don...

There are people who just flatly aren't worth the effort... I guess that goes both ways...

No matter???

GfinS has joined Sawz on my list of people that you can no longer talk with...

As for the Tea Party??? Yeah, terrorist organization... They are trying to do what bin Laden couldn't: kill the US economy... But they are too ignorant of basic Economics 201 to understand that...

I learned when I was a social worker not to argue with crazy people... Same goes for folks who are clueless but think they know everything in the world...

B~

---

27 Jul 11 - 02:54 AM (#3196350)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Gosh, just when I offered an 'Olive Branch' to bury the hatchet...hmmm, seems like the others wish to 'remain silent', and traipse off there merry way....so, I'll say this politely....ahem (clears throat)...Oh, Mr. Firth, would you care to substantiate your assertion, that I've told a falsehood, when you asserted the claim that, let me put your statement in quotes:... "And then, you went on to claim that YOU were a counselor and HAVE cured homosexuals of their homosexuality. By the way, don't try to deny that you claimed this, because I can link people to the posts where you said it."

Well then, I'll take you up on your generous offer...because I looked and found it nowhere...and I sincerely doubt that you can either. ..but rather you dug up a post, which, had you read further, I asserted that I never authored, and by doing so, you broke your concentration, from your arduous search, which I'm sure you were so diligent about! So rather than allow you to embarrass yourself further, by making, yet ANOTHER 'mistaken' claim, would you care to continue your journey, into your quest, of searching for something I never said in the first place?..If not, can you politely insert your cranium, into the orifice, where you mistakenly procured your other 'assertions'???...I'll be happy to forgive your inaccurate assertions, then!!

Actually Joe, I thought this was getting overheated when I posted this:
"Jeez!..It sounds like a barroom brawl!..well maybe a coffee house brawl..and some of you are sure getting a lot of lumps!..but before the 'barkeep' shuts the thread down(even though it HAS been rather entertaining), Let's wait for Donny to find that mysterious, elusive post!...We may be on here a lo-o-o-o-ng time!"

Sincerely and Politely Yours,

GfS

P.S....and may I suggest that you discontinue making up things, to prove a point, that never existed?. Be courteous.

---

27 Jul 11 - 04:04 AM (#3196362)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

10 Indications That the United States is Becoming a Dictatorship

Read this, and click on the underlined links.

GfS

---

27 Jul 11 - 09:40 AM (#3196535)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Nah, GfinS... This ain't about olive branches... It's about coming to a gun fight without a gun... This thread is about the tactics used by the Tea Party and the radical policies they are trying to force on the majority of America... If all one can do is parrot bumper sticker length policy positions that the Tea party and their masters put out there then that is just like the not taking the gun to the gun fight...

Many of us here are well educated and well read and are paying attention to the madness that the radical right is in the process of trying to ***impose*** on our country which to outsiders looks exactly like that: madness... Radical fringe groups should not have the power to wreck our economy... That is why the American people are pissed at Congress... It is being held hostage by these radical who came into power on one big issue: jobs!!! Not deficits... Not turning all the attention to defeating Obama!!! It was "jobs, jobs, jobs" in the 2010 election but once in power they pulled off th3e sheep clothing and told *US* that they were voted in to disrupt the American government???

In other words: They Lied!!!

Now they have disrupted the American government hoping that in doing so they can defeat Obama but no where in sight are their either ***jobs*** or the talk of ***jobs***... Might of fact, all leading economists tell *US* that the Tea Party policy positions will destroy millions of ***jobs***...

Last month the private sector added 58,000 jobs but with the cuts, cuts, cuts that the Tea Party had pushed on *US* we lost over 40,000 jobs... That left *US* with a net gain of less than 20,000 when all leading economists say we need 200,000 a month to cut into the 8,000,000 ***jobs*** that were lost during the Bush years...

BTW, we're not talking about hiring government employees here... We are talking about investing in fixing out crumbling infrastructure which is done primarily by private contractors...

Never mind... I am talking to a tree...

B~

---

27 Jul 11 - 09:52 AM (#3196545)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Thank you, Joe.

GfS, you should know by now that quotes from a blogger who is a self-avowed Libertarian aren't going to carry much weight outside the extreme right-wing fringe. Not that I disagreed with everything he was saying, but that someone with such an obvious bias isn't a good place to go for real news. I'm WAY more interested in what you think than in what some Libertarian blogger thinks.

That being said, I'd like to draw your attention to the first sentence of the article you linked to:

For a people to be free, they must first be honest with themselves, their government, and the world at large.

I'm glad you want to get back to talking about freedom, and apparently want to approach the subject honestly. I'm unclear, however, on exactly what you mean when you talk about freedom. Can you spell out some the freedoms you want us all to have, and which ones you only want some of us to have, and which ones no one should have?

Do you believe that all freedoms enjoyed by Americans should be delineated by the Constitution? Do you believe the Constitution should be amended to fit modern times, should be interpreted with an understanding that the world has changed and that the concepts are more important than the actual words, or that it should be left as is and interpreted literally?

---

27 Jul 11 - 12:42 PM (#3196633)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"the cuts, cuts, cuts that the Tea Party had pushed on *US*"

Please describe these cuts Bobert.

---

27 Jul 11 - 12:47 PM (#3196635)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

$33B so far...

B~

---

27 Jul 11 - 01:09 PM (#3196654)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

Bobert has not said what was cut so far.

He has not answered the question about which political party cast the most yea votes for TARP and which cast the most nay votes.

I even provided a link to the Senate record.

---

27 Jul 11 - 01:14 PM (#3196661)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"I get this information from sources such as Scientific American and Psychology Today.

Argue with THEM!"

Appeal to authority.

---

27 Jul 11 - 01:15 PM (#3196665)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Not playing yer games, Sawz, so go cry on yer shrink's shoulder...

---

27 Jul 11 - 01:19 PM (#3196669)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

It's important to recognize and identify the patterns of a ritual defamation. Like all propaganda and disinformation campaigns it is accomplished primarily through the manipulation of words and symbols. It is not used to persuade, but to punish. Although it may have cognitive elements, its thrust is primarily emotional. Ritual Defamation is used to hurt, to intimidate, to destroy, and to persecute, and to avoid the dialogue, debate and discussion upon which a free society depends. On those grounds it must be opposed no matter who tries to justify its use.

An important rule in ritual defamation is to avoid engaging in any kind of debate over the truthfulness or reasonableness of what has been expressed, only condemn it. To debate opens the issue up for examination and discussion of its merits, and to consider the evidence that may support it, which is just what the ritual defamer is trying to avoid. The primary goal of a ritual defamation is censorship and repression.

---

27 Jul 11 - 01:41 PM (#3196683)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

"Combative terms: "prove it or shut up," "stupid, false and disputed," "political hackery and quackery," "Bob-Babes," "you are, indeed, a liar" "pre-conceived bullshit," etc., etc. You're sounding like a bunch of dour old farts with stale testosterone.I think it's time to cool it down, guys. Otherwise, I'll close the thread."

Can I call Bobert an idiot if I can prove that trying to use logic on Sawzaw is pointless?

---

27 Jul 11 - 02:42 PM (#3196727)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

"would you care to substantiate your assertion, that I've told a falsehood….." about your saying that you never claimed to try to pass yourself off to be a counselor?

Sure, GfS! Since you keep trying to proclaim yourself as a Beacon of Truth and keep calling me a liar when I quote your own statements back to you, I am more than happy to expose your perfidy.   (Fasten your seat belt).

Subject: RE: BS: Why not just BAN Guests?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity - PM
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 03:00 PM

To answer your question, I'm a musician, sound engineer, screenplay author, and composed a soundtrack for a film, and when I originally stumbled upon this forum, which was by sheer happenstance, I found it extremely stimulating, and interesting. Being as I also am a marriage and family counselor, I was drawn into some of the discussions, with a certain passion, if you will. My post explains my reasons for remaining a 'Guest' In addition, I have personal information on here, that is highly confidential. Hope that answers your question. Re-read my last post, if you need clarification.* Thank you.

And on the seventh day, you rested?

Now, you were saying. . . ?

Don Firth

*Claims he has private and confidential material on his computer and is afraid that if he registers, people on Mudcat may have access to it.

All together now (to the tune of "The Volga Boatman") — "Par-a-noi-a. .  . .   (grunt).

---

27 Jul 11 - 02:46 PM (#3196729)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"$33B so far"

"Whose figures??? Right wing bloggers???"

Oneway Bobert demands answers from others but he will not answer.

"Can I call Bobert an idiot" I do not beleive it is OK to call anybody an idiot.

I have never told anybody to shut up.

If they keep making claims they can't back up, just proves their claims are specious and that they are a blowhard.

Bobert can't define any of the "cuts"

He won't name any of the shitload of Dixiecrats.

He won't name any of the "right wing paid bloggers"

He can keep on repeating those claims as long as he wants.

Can you back up this claim Bobert?:

"When thug, who are paid by the Koch brothers, enter a town meeting with the intent of scaring the shit out of everyone"

When and where did that happen Bobert?

---

27 Jul 11 - 03:19 PM (#3196754)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

The difference though, is that the post you posted of mine, is true..unlike your other assertion that you could not, can not, and therefore won't be validating.
As far as I'm concerned, ANYONE who knowingly fabricates, a false assertion, such as you have, and continue to do, isn't worth the time of day! Those who knowingly support that kind of bad behavior, and supports know lies, is probably unreliable, when it comes to 'political' dogmas, as well!
You have done a magnificent job of discrediting yourself...I couldn't have done better!!!

Now onto your next deception???..Please note: ONLY moronic simpletons, will believe and promote your antics!!

But I'm quite sure you're well practiced at this...just THIS time you got busted!!!...in a public arena, as well!

TRULY,(look it up)

GfS

---

27 Jul 11 - 04:35 PM (#3196801)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Kind of like the little kid with crumbs all over his face and his pockets stuffed with cookies insisting on his innocence and accusing his imaginary friend of raiding the cookie jar. It would be funny if it weren't so downright dumb.

Unbelievable! Catch GfS in a lie multiple times and he just keeps right on lying, trying to cover the original lie(s), while in the meantime, accusing those who exposed him (again and again) of being the ones who are lying.

Didn't somebody once say that "The definition of insanity is when someone keeps repeating the same behavior, while, each time expecting a different result?"

Since it's obvious to all—except, apparently, to him/her/it—I will waste no further time.

And, of course, it will crow that I've left the field because it routed me. Guaranteed.

Not unlike the yappy little Yorkshire terrier I described earlier. As I said, I didn't run over it because I do tend to be kind and tolerant of dumb animals—even when they keep snarling and barking as if they want to tear my leg off (from the safety of being held tightly in their owner's arms). Actually, if you can avoid getting annoyed with them, their antics can really be quite amusing.

But it can get pretty silly after a bit.

Don Firth

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27 Jul 11 - 04:39 PM (#3196807)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Mean while, the Tea Party continues the work that Osama bin Laden started in trying to destroy the American economy...

I keep reading that al qeada is close to being destroyed... Great, when we finish that job we need to destroy the Tea Party next and save America for real Americans who want the country to succeed rather than the crooks who just want to poison its water, pollute its air, steal even more $$$ from the working class and kill as many American jobs as they can in an attempt to turn America into their own little Afghanistan with the Koch brothers and Dick Armey being Taliban war lords...

B~

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27 Jul 11 - 06:15 PM (#3196868)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

Sigh . . . will you folks PLEASE stop talking about each other and start talking about the issues at hand?

Trying again:

GfS, you should know by now that quotes from a blogger who is a self-avowed Libertarian aren't going to carry much weight outside the extreme right-wing fringe. Not that I disagreed with everything he was saying, but that someone with such an obvious bias isn't a good place to go for real news. I'm WAY more interested in what you think than in what some Libertarian blogger thinks.

That being said, I'd like to draw your attention to the first sentence of the article you linked to:

For a people to be free, they must first be honest with themselves, their government, and the world at large.

I'm glad you want to get back to talking about freedom, and apparently want to approach the subject honestly. I'm unclear, however, on exactly what you mean when you talk about freedom. Can you spell out some the freedoms you want us all to have, which ones you only want some of us to have, and which ones no one should have?

Do you believe that all freedoms enjoyed by Americans should be delineated by the Constitution? Do you believe the Constitution should be amended to fit modern times, should be interpreted with an understanding that the world has changed and that the concepts are more important than the actual words, or that it should be left as is and interpreted literally?

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27 Jul 11 - 07:22 PM (#3196909)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Forget it John...

You are way over GfinS's pay grade... She has no idea what "freedom" or "liberty" means...

These folks just want their country back...

Which country is it that they want back is the real question...

The 1959 country before the Civil Right Act or...

...the 1919 country before unions or...

...the 1859 country when slavery was still legal???

I mean, they are clueless about American History in general and ignorant of the meaning of the words that Dick Armey and the Koch brothers have spent hundreds of millions of $$$ to stick in their little heads...

Square business...

B~

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27 Jul 11 - 08:47 PM (#3196953)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

I'm NOT interested in your deceptions and self willed ignorance!..nor your smear and slur tactics, because you never had a 'fact' in the first place..you know it, I know it...and the rest are just being 'polite'.

Sawzaw was absolutely correct, like it or not when he posted, "It's important to recognize and identify the patterns of a ritual defamation. Like all propaganda and disinformation campaigns it is accomplished primarily through the manipulation of words and symbols. It is not used to persuade, but to punish. Although it may have cognitive elements, its thrust is primarily emotional. Ritual Defamation is used to hurt, to intimidate, to destroy, and to persecute, and to avoid the dialogue, debate and discussion upon which a free society depends. On those grounds it must be opposed no matter who tries to justify its use.

An important rule in ritual defamation is to avoid engaging in any kind of debate over the truthfulness or reasonableness of what has been expressed, only condemn it. To debate opens the issue up for examination and discussion of its merits, and to consider the evidence that may support it, which is just what the ritual defamer is trying to avoid. The primary goal of a ritual defamation is censorship and repression."

If you think this is 'representative' of 'so-called liberal' ideology, and methodology, you might need to refresh your understanding of 'Corrupt'.
..and if you wish to 'congratulate' yourselves, for lying, be my guest. You only add more insult to you banal, and childish behavior...and Frankly, I don't give a damn....but you will hear more about this.......


Other than that, there is nothing to say to you, or your ilk!
I am surprised, and disappointed in Joe for not calling you on your libelous remarks!

GfS

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27 Jul 11 - 09:00 PM (#3196961)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Yeah, it's always been about attacking Bobert!!!

That's all you have...

Every time I try to talk policy you attack me... I have quit trying to have a rational conversation with either you or Sawz... All I get back is attack, attack, attack...

Sawz stalked me from one web site to another and went way out of his way to attack, attack, attack...

Screw ya'll... You wanta talk policy then talk policy... You wanta play attack Bobert, forget it...

Homie had enough of that ballgame... Way too much!!!

Get lives!!!

B~

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27 Jul 11 - 09:50 PM (#3196987)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Amazing! Still barking!

Ain't he just the cutest little thing?

Don Firth

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27 Jul 11 - 10:07 PM (#3197000)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Well From what I've seen, and experienced, you made a lot of unsubstantiated statements yourself...and all people are trying to do is to get you to back them up..any of them, but you just ignored the calls to provide any truth to your partisan rantings...which you still have not done...except about how your 90 year old mother re-acted, in her walker when she went to a Tea Party rally...and who knows if that was true or not..who knows??..its only what you allege! Don gets up and posts a bold face lie, and when asked numerous times to back it up and provide the link to the post, that he alleged that I said, he couldn't, or wouldn't do it, as well....and you say WHO is the terrorist organization??????
You're just two peas in a pod. So excuse me, if you gathered the re-action and reputation you got...you WORKED at it!..
..as for me, I don't give a rat's ass.....but I got you two clocked!
Fair enough??....or should we get our knickers in a twist when the 'Republicans' or Tea Partiers preach lies.....you should be immuned!..in fact, as far as it looks, I have to seriously question your sincerity about almost everything you say politically....Little Hawk, cut you a little slack, when he said he thought you had sincere intentions...but that is 'out the door'. How can you take pride and honor, by NOT taking a stand for truth???...and/or siding on the side of an old fart who, as you know, was lying through his teeth??? This is what you stand for??.....Don't even try pumping up your corrupt party affiliations. It's all out front now!!!
I'm not even offended, but rather, validated.
Sorry and disappointed about you sorry two!...but then, I knew it all along!...You guys just helped me confirm EXACTLY what needed to be confirmed.
Now, whenever you think you're making a point, all that is needed to blow you out of the water, is to refer back to this event!...being as you don't provide anything to back up what you spout off about, as well!
Have a pleasant evening...sociopaths do what they do, without any conscience...to bug them about their actions...Don's hasn't for a LONG time!!!

Honestly,

GfS

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27 Jul 11 - 10:29 PM (#3197010)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

You'll have to forgive GfS. He had a hard childhood. You see, he didn't have a mother. In fact, he was not actually born.

He was let.

Don Firth

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27 Jul 11 - 10:30 PM (#3197011)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

Getting into a pissing contest with the right winged bloggers statisticians is like beating your head on a wall becaause it feels so good when you stop...

I will not play on your terms...

If you don't like what I post then disprove it with sources that are credible... Have you ever been to the GAO website, GfinS??? There are tens of thousand of things to read and if you have a paid job to go thru those thousands of pages and twist and twist that what you are going to get is something other than the truth...

No offense, but if you would spend less time here pontificating about nothing and spend more time learning basic economics and American & World history it would be more meaningful...

Like, for starters... What does "freedom" mean??? What does "liberty" mean"??? How is the GNP figured??? Now many tax cuts have the rich gotten since 1955??? What does "regressive tax" mean??? Is a flat tax a "regressive tax??? Does freedom have anything to do with a woman's choice to carry unwanted pregancies even if the result of rape??? ''

Sorry, but no more ballgames??? No more trying to get this ol' hillbilly into a facts check with full time paid rightie bloggers... I'd have to have what they are: a staff of 100 or 500...

Any of ya'll want to swear off that bullshit "stats/prove-it games" and talk about policies - not Tea Party and right winged bullshit but policies down to nuts and bolts and reasons for this and not for that kinda stuff, you know, the boring stuff) then bring it on... I am a policy weenie... We can do this...

B~

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27 Jul 11 - 11:37 PM (#3197031)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

You just keep making my point!!!
Laughing my ass off!

GfS

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28 Jul 11 - 12:38 AM (#3197058)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

"Dick Armey and the Koch brothers have spent hundreds of millions of $$$"

Whose figures Bobert??? Right wing bloggers???

How much has Soros spent???

"we need to destroy the Tea Party" Now Bobert reveals his true agenda, Destroy. He is telling people they need to destroy a group, People that think different from him.

How Bobert? Is that why you tell people to "buy guns, lots of ammo and learn to shoot straight and learn to shoot straight"?

"full time paid rightie bloggers... I'd have to have what they are: a staff of 100 or 500..."

Who are they Bobert?

You claim you don't have to prove anything but everybody else needs to, One set of rules for you and another set for others.

I answer your questions but you are to pious to answer mine. You would rather just call me names and make personal attacks than produce any facts to back up your claims.

But that is your right. Just do on proving you can't support any of your claims with facts.

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28 Jul 11 - 12:40 AM (#3197060)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity

Sawzaw: "But that is your right. Just do on proving you can't support any of your claims with facts."

Duhhh!!! Same with the other guy, too!!

GfS

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28 Jul 11 - 03:39 AM (#3197093)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw

The "other guy" does not present any facts, just anti social personal attacks. The trademark of people with no facts to present because they are incapable of dialogue.

Every personal attack reveals his level of intelligence.

The M.O. of the "other guy": Ritual Defamation is used to hurt, to intimidate, to destroy, and to persecute, and to avoid the dialogue, debate and discussion upon which a free society depends. On those grounds it must be opposed no matter who tries to justify its use.

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28 Jul 11 - 03:42 AM (#3197094)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Joe Offer

Well, you know, I think you've all lightened up since I asked, but I'm still getting requests to close the thread. Should I close the thread and give all you guys with the stale testosterone a chance of a new start, or will you all just pretend to like each other even though you disagree? I know you really do like each other....more or less.

-Joe-

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28 Jul 11 - 07:52 AM (#3197200)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Close it.

Please.

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28 Jul 11 - 08:07 AM (#3197208)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

I opened this thread but it has degenerated into a Sawz & GfinS's circle jerk...

You have my blessing to pull the plug on their ballgames, Joe!!!

B~

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28 Jul 11 - 12:04 PM (#3197325)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

Does anyone have a cure for virulent cases of lonely cynicism?

It seems to have developed a resistence to hope and love.

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28 Jul 11 - 12:13 PM (#3197332)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Donuel

The wounded and dying brand of Republicanism in 2008 was hoping to rename themselves and emerge anew from the ashes when they embraced the Tea Party from many angles including Dick Army's lobby group, the Koch Bros when they were talked into it later, and from the more authentic grass root people who were really upset from the crash. Then religious fundamentalists tried it on for size and then the Citizens United case allowed millions to be poured into Tea Party candidate campaigns.

They did not even know who they were paying in many cases. They won 87 seats.

Republicans just thought aha, we have both a new name and an excited base again. It didn;t turn out that way. Over half of the new members are patheticly ignorant. Republicans are already rueing the day.

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28 Jul 11 - 02:04 PM (#3197399)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

People like Guest from Sanity and Sawzaw make it impossible for others to have a rational discussion. If anyone disagrees with their viewpoint, rather than trying to present evidence and engage in a civil debate, they immediately resort to insults and name-calling.

In the case of Guest from Sanity in particular, he has contradicted himself on a number of occasions, and when it is pointed out to him, he insists that he did not, sometimes claiming that others (me in particular) have been posting in his name, and proceeds to attack the person and calls him or her a "liar"—even after the posts in which he did this are cited.

And lately, he has been stalking me, and essentially engaging in attempts at character assassination.

In my opinion, this thread has passed its "sell-by" date and should be closed.

Also, Guest from Sanity's posts, past and future, should be carefully monitored for insults and personal attacks and appropriate action taken.

I would also request that MY posts be carefully monitored for the same thing. It will be noted that I do not call people things like "asshole," or make up insulting and offensive epithets like "Bagdad Bob" or "Propaganda Minister Firth."

Joe? Are you there?

Don Firth

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28 Jul 11 - 02:07 PM (#3197402)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

"People like Guest from Sanity and Sawzaw make it impossible for others to have a rational discussion."

But yet the discussion continues. Don Firth are you having an irrational discussion? If so, why? The constant slagging is making it impossible to discuss an important topic.

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28 Jul 11 - 02:26 PM (#3197414)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

Jack, I endeavor to make my discussion points civilly and clearly. If someone insists on not addressing the points I'm trying to make, but feels he can refute or neutralize what I have said by calling me an "asshole," well, I don't think it is ME who is rendering the disussion irrational.

In live meetings of, say, the City Council, people who indulge in this kind of "debate" are usually ejected from the meeting.

Don Firth

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28 Jul 11 - 02:37 PM (#3197424)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

You allow GfS and Sawzaw to dominate the discussion by replying to their crap and talking about them personally. Yes, I have done it too. Lets declare a moratorium on talking directly to or about either of them. Answer the points once and move on.

I looked through this page of this thread and I could not see anything but personal attacks by either of them. Answering that is just troll feeding.

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28 Jul 11 - 02:48 PM (#3197435)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth

You're absolutely right, Jack. Point taken.

Let me go on record at this point as saying that if I do not respond to personal attacks and insults from GfS or Sawzaw or anyone else, this is not to be construed as agreement (even if they claim that my lack of response indicates that I agree or that do not have a response). I merely regard their remarks, unless civilly presented, as unworthy of response.

Okay?

Don Firth

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28 Jul 11 - 02:54 PM (#3197439)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

"even if they claim that my lack of response indicates that I agree or that do not have a response"

I think that anyone who says such a thing can be considered to be trolling.

A constructive discussion means offering considered opinions. Not tossing out turds and demanding that turds be tossed back.

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28 Jul 11 - 03:00 PM (#3197442)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert

As the originator of this thread I have PM'd Joe about closing it... It has run its course... Everything has been said already... The Sawz/GfinS circle jerk has become as predictable as it is boring...

B~

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28 Jul 11 - 03:24 PM (#3197453)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Jack the Sailor

Or You could stop sparring too.

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28 Jul 11 - 05:37 PM (#3197516)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P

I'm still searching for anyone who agrees with the goals and methodology of the Tea Party and is willing to have a real debate of the issues. All I ever seem to get are slogan-like one-liners like "We must have freedom" or "We must take back our country" or "We have to stop the financial madness", and there the conversation stops.

Can anyone help me, please? What does freedom mean to a Tea Party sympathizer? How has our country been taken away from us? How is messing with our credit rating and starting a depression not financial madness? The problem is that I can't seem to get even these first questions answered, much less the next 10 or so that will naturally arise.

Governing is more than holding to ideals -- it is learning everything there is to know about what happens next and then making rational decisions based on what is best for the country. I don't see the Tea Party doing that.

Risking a world-wide depression and the savings of everyone in the country is economic terrorism. Denying civil rights to minorities is political terrorism. Inserting religious ideals into our laws is an attempt to overthrow the Constitution and is religious terrorism. Showing up at town hall meetings with guns and angry words is physical terrorism. I'd love to hear someone refute those statements with honest opinions and some form of logic. Then I'd like to have a real discussion on the subject. That requires thoughtful responses and a willingness to discuss the nuances of the issues. Anyone game?

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28 Jul 11 - 05:43 PM (#3197517)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.

I'm still searching for anyone who agrees with the goals and methodology of the Tea Party and is willing to have a real debate of the issues.

I wish you luck.

You can't get your questions answered because the TeaBaggers are a collection of ignorant sods who don't have the least idea what they are talking about.

Reference many a TeaBagger spouting off about what the Constitition and/or The Federalist Papers say and upon being asked if they'd read either having to admit they had not.

These people operate in a totally fact-free environment. If forced to operate on a level other than bumper-sticker slogans or hate-jock lies, they're lost.

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28 Jul 11 - 05:48 PM (#3197519)
Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Joe Offer

OK. It looks like the consensus is that the thread should be closed. If you start another thread on the Tea Party, that's fine with me. HOWEVER, it would be nice if the thread were started on a less-biased tone with a less-biased title so that everyone at least starts out on somewhat equal footing.
I hereby declare this thread CLOSED.
-Joe-

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