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26 Feb 10 - 04:53 AM (#2850555) Subject: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 FINALLY they are waking up to it! FINALLY the media is taking on board the terrible damage we are allowing to happen to the most vulnerable souls in our society. Today BBC Breakfast News is talking about the 'official' report into sexualisation of our children. Yesterday BBC Radio Devon opened the airwaves to listeners about it and were swamped with anxious and angry calls. And also yesterday, the Bishop of Exeter came out to add his voice to the concern that is now starting to raise its head above the parapet. There are calls to ban explicit music videos on TV until after 9pm (just ban 'em completely, imo)...there are calls for parents to say NO! over and over...for all phones and computers to automatically come with Parental Controls turned ON when you buy them, so that children cannot access goodness knows what on the net, calls for adverts to change, for society to change... The BBC presenter on Radio Devon spoke about women dressed as 'tarts' in the music industry being presented to our children as some kind person to look up to... Well, well, well.... Yesterday, in the rain, I saw a young girl, about 12, on her way home, underneath her 'cute' little Playboy Umbrella, the pink bunnies shining out against the black, in the darkness of the rainstorm... I've spoken so often of little girls who are way too knowledgeable about how they move their bodies, without really understanding what message their bodies are sending out. They're just copying what they see on TV. On the television this morning, they were talking with a woman who's just written a book on this whole thing, a very glamourous, young and pretty woman, (can't recall her name I'm afraid) who was dressed impeccably and elegantly. She was highly intelligent, and deeply worried about what is happening to young girls, boys too. She spoke about how girls are being almost brainwashed into feeling that the only thing they are now valued for is...their bodies. How bulimia is on the increase, how boobs jobs are top of the plastic surgery list now. She told of how many very young teenagers have already experienced sexual assault. She also spoke of how boys are being brainwashed into seeing girls as sexual objects and treating them accordingly. Of how they see what's 'on offer' and they want it, take it. The girls feel as if that's what they should be offering too....and so many of them want to be models or lap/pole dancers. So, now that it's 'official' are people finally going to admit it's happening? |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:06 AM (#2850562) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Acorn4 It's true what she says but Lord knows how you put all that into reverse? |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:19 AM (#2850569) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Well, Acorn, she...and the other lady who was there, a Professor, said that you have to make the sexualising of our children become as abhorent as racism. They said that Society itself has to pull together to turn it around in the same way that racism has been turned around. I agree with that entirely. Of course, it will mean that we have to become 'judgemental' again, but in my book, doing away with saying "Nope, I'm sorry but this is just plain WRONG!" has been the biggest mistake of all. It has allowed those with weird agendas to move in uninhibited, under the guise of anyone who dares to stand up and speak out is an old fuddyduddy who should be chased out of town. I am proud to be an old fuddyduddy! |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:22 AM (#2850571) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Richard Bridge I have finally come to agree with what many have long said. Please boycott all of Mad Lizzie's rantings. |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:32 AM (#2850576) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Thank you, Richard. The younger lady's name is Dr. Linda Papadopoulos, who is the author of the official report, not the auther of a book about sexualising our children, as I mistakenly stated above. Still trying to find the older lady's name. BBC Breakfast News - Sexualising our Children Dr. Linda Papadopoulos - Wiki |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:38 AM (#2850583) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 The BBC news video of teenagers talking about how they feel Richard, LISTEN to what one of the girls says about 'the race against time' how she feels that you HAVE to lose your virginity as fast as possible, get it 'over and done with' to keep in with your mates and the pressure. It ain't just coming from me you know. I've been trying to tell you this, to get you to understand what IS going on 'out here' for so very long. This is NOT a joke. It's impacting HUGELY upon an entire generation! We have let Sexual Predators take over our society and not said a word about it, for fear of being labelled prudish or being referred to as Mad Lizzie, or whatever other name you choose to put there. I have no fear of names, nor bullying posters who seek only to undermine what I have to say. Whether some of you like it or not, this IS now out of control and people are finally starting to wake up to the fact that society has to change, and that we, the adults, have to once again take on the responsibility for our behaviour and for protecting our children. |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:51 AM (#2850590) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lox The report referred to in this thread concerns the bombardment of children with sexual images through media and advertising. I also recognize this problem to be real and serious, and I hate the whole corporate propaganda thing that goes with it, which says that unless you are young and sexually attractive according to the definiton implied by advertisers trying to sell their product, then you do not fit in with cultural norms as prescribed by advertisers. Advertisers add to the many pressures faced by young girls and young women today in a cynical and cruel way, by playing on their already bombarded insecurities. I agree that children being used to advertise pornography, as is the case when a 12 year old wears playboy promotional merchandizing, is offensive on the deepest, most subterranean level. |
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26 Feb 10 - 06:00 AM (#2850597) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lox In addition, i would note that the sexualization of children and young women contributes to the objectification of women that causes some to see them as sex objects to be used or abused at will. It also prevents social observers from remembering that young girls are people and not sexual stereotypes, with the result that they may judge yong girls for being to blame when they are victims of assault. |
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26 Feb 10 - 06:09 AM (#2850599) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Dave Hanson Any normal person would agree with Lizzie Cornish, one has to ask why Richard Bridge does not. Dave H |
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26 Feb 10 - 06:21 AM (#2850609) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: mauvepink I am with Lox and Lizzie on this one so far. Little girls dressing up in teir mummy's high heels and scarves has always fone on. Little girls want to be grown up girls. When you see children's lingerie and some of the clothing for them and other products, you just know it's already gone too far. The whole 'schoolgirl' thing kind of edged it for year but now it is blatant sexualisation fo children themselves. The idea of making it as abhorrent as racism, etc., seems a sound one. Parents should just point blank refise to buy the stuff. The argument from the manufiacturers is that there is a market for that kind of thing. Consumers make the market succeed or fail. I do not see this as a Lizzie rant. It's a fair point I think. I never let my daughter have stuff like that (though there was not a lot of it about back then) and she does not let her daughter have sexual merchandise. The responsibility here rests on the edaults to kill it. mp |
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26 Feb 10 - 06:25 AM (#2850614) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: mauvepink Little girls dressing up in teir mummy's high heels and scarves has always fone on. = Little girls dressing up in their mummy's high heels and scarves has always gone on. Stupid typos. Apologies. (I would also like to add that, even if it was a Lizzie rant, she is entitled to do so. She is not the only one who is capable of ranting here. I rabbit rather than rant but... let they who are without sin cast the first stone. Please don't condemn the thread just because Lizzie started it. She is entitled to her beliefs too) mp |
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26 Feb 10 - 07:06 AM (#2850647) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Emma B As a (dreaded) feminist - could someone please tell me why that is considered by our resident ranter to be a compulsory prefix - should I start describing anti feminists as demented damsels? Anyways, as one of the above feminists, I have long been concerned about the increasing objectification of women both in society and how I sometimes see that reflected here on a forum, in fact I have commented on it more than once here, and still wince when I see casual 'jokes' that objectify women and girls like - "From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM Date: 15 Feb 10 - 05:02 PM "Lizzie, I love threepenny bits as well. Especially in the Rhyming slang sense. "She's got a lovely pair of threepennies!!" Oh, you Boys! ;0) " As a consequence I was anticipating the much advertised, in the recent week, report commissioned by the Home Office with some interest as there has been a growing concern amongst womens groups in recent years that the Government should take some action to address the growing sexualisation of women in the media and popular culture and should use the opportunity of Violence Against Women strategies to rectify this As recently as last May, the Home Office was in consultation with the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, as a leading education union, and many other organizations with expertise in the field to look at the issue of ending violence against women and girls On 25th November, the Home Secretary launched the Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy. To - Prevent violence and change attitudes Provide the necessary support to women and girls Protect victims of violence As just one part of this strategy an independent review into the sexualisation of young people, conducted by psychologist Dr Linda Papadopoulos was also commissioned to examine if there was any evidence for a link between sexualisation and violence. I'll admit that I was a little surprised at this choice of a psychologist who is familiar face on British and American TV and more usually associated with reality television series, such as Big Brother, Double Cross, My Big Breasts and Me (UK documentary), Celebrity Fit Club Despite her stated intention that "I wanted to ensure that this was not an opinion piece, but a review based on real data and academic research which will help generate further debate and inform decisions about how to address these issues going forward." It is hardly surprising that the Telegraph was quick to undermine some of her argument by jumping on expressions such as 'it is perhaps not too much of a leap to posit' … 'the very real possibility that' etc … and describe this as the language not of a social scientist, but of a journalist and sum the whole report up as "it posits a link between that violence and various things that Dr Popadopoulus disapproves of — such as lad mags and airbrushed photographs — in a spurious attempt to either ban them or regulate them on grounds of public safety." I personally regret that the media - and the OP of this thread - devote so much attention to this single (from an over exposed media favourite) and quite possibly flawed contribution to the Home Office Strategy rather than to other less publicized ones which have received none - I think it hinders rather than helps an equiry I care very deeply about. End of rant :) |
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26 Feb 10 - 07:30 AM (#2850663) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Emma, I am against the sexualisation of children. I am NOT againt naughty or flirtacious humour amongst adults...and to be honest I hold **some** feminists, with their unbending, humourless attitudes to be part way responsible for the backlash that has now turned so many young girls into pervert's fantasies. I would actually regard myself as more 'feminist' than many on here who choose to believe that a woman has rights to dress like a tart if she should so want. I would rather a woman was respected for her brain, rather than her boobs... The fact that I am a Feminine Feminist who loves and respects men and doesn't mind having a naughty chuckle now and then, obviously gets up the noses of some, but...heyho. :0) And thank you to those who have said kind things on this thread. I appreciate it very much. |
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26 Feb 10 - 07:56 AM (#2850681) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Emma B Lizzie, if you are any kind of feminist then I am truly the brother of Chongos dad! As for respecting men! You have posted on the rape thread they they are little better than slaves to sexual arousal You have a knack for espousing both misogenous and misandrous sentiments but certainly, I agree, enjoy a ladette snigger or two while criticising the young women who ape the worst kind of blokeish behaviour. I'm quite aware that you have stated on many occasions that you hold 'dreaded' feminists responsible for almost everything except climate change The author of the independent report to the Home Office, as one small part of their strategy in looking at Violence against Women and Girls, places a great deal of blame for the sexualisation of YOUNG PEOPLE on the media in its many forms - I have been unable to acertain in any part of her report - or anywhere else other than your constant allegations - that this has anything to do with feminism or any backlash except that orchestrated by the nedia. You respect a woman for her brains - but disdain 'facts' but warn fellow posters against the 'feminist fact finders' on their midst! Please - jump on any popular media campaign you want but do not diminish those who have been discussing the objectification and sexualization of adult and young women for much longer than you have jumped on this bandwagon. Lizzie I will say one thing in your favour You are like a stopped clock You will be right at least once for one short moment in every 24 hours :) |
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26 Feb 10 - 08:20 AM (#2850697) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: catspaw49 So you stuff your kid in a sealed box! Otherwise even if you restrict their TV/Internet/media exposure to zero, you will also have to keep them from interacting with other kids totally and completely. Like someone said before, the toothpaste is out of the tube on this one and I'm waiting for the magic fix to put it back. What is that? Spaw |
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26 Feb 10 - 08:38 AM (#2850708) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Emma B Difficult one catspaw However, one of the suggestions however which I can only heartily endorse is that "Escort agencies, lap-dancing clubs, massage parlours and television sex channels should be banned from advertising vacancies in job centres arguing that it promotes the "normalisation" of the adult entertainment industry as a "viable career choice". There does semm to be a "drip drip effect" where the "previously unthinkable becomes widely acceptable" in modern society. Certainly, magazines targeted at teenage and pre-teen girls stress the need for girls to present themselves as sexually desirable (note desirable NOT available - please avoid highly emotive language like 'tarts'!) in order to attract male attention. The author of the report also opines that in magazines aimed at young men "The predominant message for boys is to be sexually dominant and to objectify the female body." and even "blur the lines between pornography and mainstream media" But how to conteract / reverse this trend........ ? |
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26 Feb 10 - 08:47 AM (#2850713) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Becca72 The media aren't raising these children; their PARENTS are and they are the ones responsible. |
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26 Feb 10 - 08:50 AM (#2850716) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Sandra in Sydney search on "Sexualisation and Children" - Australian articles When my niece & nephew were 8 & 11 they sent me a list of stuff they'd like for Christmas. All I can remember is my niece included the latest Britany Speers (sp?) album on her list & that some of the CDs my nephew wanted had labels warning against Explicit Lyrics. Aunty Sandra didn't select these items. sandra |
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26 Feb 10 - 09:15 AM (#2850743) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: MikeL2 hi lizzie I live in the North West of England and out region program also featured sexualisation of children reports. Most of it was very much as you have already described so I won't go into that. It also showed some items that have been manufactured for children. The one I remember was for a padded bra for children from NINI years upwards. There was also a report that I believe has been broadcast nationally about suggests to make sexual education compulsary in ALL schools. This has clearly enraged some schools. But surely before we start making sexual education compulsary for children shouldn't we be doing something about education for their parents ?? It makes a change to see people actually agreeing with you.....albeit reluctantly. EMMA - all the clocks in my house are right twice a day....lol Lizzie you must be losing your touch.....lol regards MikeL2 |
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26 Feb 10 - 09:20 AM (#2850752) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lox "I would actually regard myself as more 'feminist' than many on here who choose to believe that a woman has rights to dress like a tart if she should so want. I would rather a woman was respected for her brain, rather than her boobs..." I would rather a womans brain was respected regardless of what she wore. But I agree that the media celebrates women with big boobs disproportionately, if not almost exclusively to the detriment of women with brains. |
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26 Feb 10 - 09:28 AM (#2850758) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lox "I would rather a womans brain was respected regardless of what she wore." And her body too by the way ... |
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26 Feb 10 - 10:13 AM (#2850791) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Greg F. Please boycott all of Mad Lizzie's rantings. Or, you could try shouting "Basingstoke!" |
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26 Feb 10 - 11:17 AM (#2850845) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Jack Campin The issue isn't entirely about the media and cultural influences on the mind. Anglo-America now has probably the lowest age of menarche in the history of the human race, probably thanks to its peculiar diet, dietary phyto-oestrogens and gender-bending chemicals in plastics. At the same time, particularly in the US, legal constraints on sexual activity are imposed at a more advanced age than in any earlier human culture. More than five years between sexual maturity and sexual legality, and people act surprised that there's a problem? |
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26 Feb 10 - 12:03 PM (#2850876) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: mauvepink Emma could you signpost me to your other concerns please? PM would be fine and thanks in anticipation. I actually thought the above report a good thing but am willing to learn more if you think it is watered down in some way. When I was on may way to a meeting today it was on the radio about the recent report. Radio Lancashire has given the subject a lot of air time. I hope the other major News do too. Am not about a lot today ands tomorrow but will keep an eye to the thread when I can Have a good weeken everyone mp |
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26 Feb 10 - 01:05 PM (#2850931) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "As for respecting men! You have posted on the rape thread they they are little better than slaves to sexual arousal." Find it. Post it here. I think you'll find I stated ****some**** men, those men are usually the ones who rape, Emma. I have always stuck up for men actually, and it incenses you. Tough. As I've said before, I'm the daughter, sister and mother of men, and they seem pretty darn good to me. There are a few foul men. And....there are also a few foul women too........................ Oh, Cripes, Mike, don't get me started on sex education, whatever you do, else I may be here all night. Just let me say that I'd be interested to know how many paedeophiles have a hand in school sex education, along with the music industry, the toy industry and the fashion industry, to name but a few. A few years back I rang the Head Buyer for NEXT, talked to her about the outrageous clothes they were selling for little girls, at that time. She ended up in tears, telling me how desperately worried she was about her own two daughters, about the highly suggestive way they danced, what they wanted to wear..They were 7 and 9 years old at the time. She said she'd tried and tried to get this point over in the Boardroom, but she was now one of the oldest there (mid 40s) and nearly all the other staff present simply didn't understand what she was on about. Two generations have been groomed, that's part of the problem. It's why so many parents say "Yes!" because they can't see anything wrong with it, and because some of them also don't give a damn about their kids. Preaching that women have the right to wear whatever, without any form of judgement coming down on them though, is, in my opinion, a huge part of why we are where we are. The Spice Girls started it. My daughter back then was at primary school and the end of term show was a Spice Girls tribute. She wasn't in it. I remember sitting there gasping in horror as these kids came out 9/10 years old, dressed as their heroines, even down to Geri's Union Jack Dress, cut to the crotch..with knickers showing. All the parents clapped and cheered and those whose kids were in it sat there glowing with pride at their daughters. I shuddered! (And no, Don, I was NOT jealous) ;0) I continued to watch as her friends started to be dressed in more outrageous outfits over the years. Now, there Myspace pages are filled with pictures of drunken nights out, everyone all over everyone else..and it makes me really sad, you know, because I remember them when they came to my house in Sidmouth, at 13 years old......I bought them all loads of bubbles and they ran round Blackmore Gardens, free from worry of being seen by other kids they knew from back in Tavistock. The whole place became filled with bubbles as five kids slipped into being young in the right way..."I'd forgotten what it's like to be a child!" squealed Megan, excitedly..and my heart felt heavy, because I knew that this would only last for a weekend, before all the stress of 'keeping up' would have to start again once they got home.. The Lost Children... And it is really any wonder that their own parents have not yet really grown up? They too had their childhood stolen from them, by the Corporate Soul Stealers who see our children as nothing more than consumers to train from an earlier and earlier age. Yes, this CAN be turned around, and it's easy to do, because all it takes is the media to keep it right in the forefront of people's attentions, until the message finally gets through...even to Katie Price/Jordan and her brood of adultchildren... We need to start making REAL people heroes and heroines for our children/ People that they should aspire to follow in the footsteps of, for all the brave, wonderful and uplifting things they do for others...and for themselves. In fact, I'm off to hunt down a few inspirational youngsters... |
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26 Feb 10 - 01:39 PM (#2850959) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: bubblyrat Well done & well said,Lizzie. As for man-hating androphobes like Emma B,and malcontents like RB ; well, I should just ignore them !! |
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26 Feb 10 - 02:00 PM (#2850970) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Emma B PM sent mauvepink btw I have a 24 hour clock MikeL2 :) |
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26 Feb 10 - 02:02 PM (#2850973) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Jack: "More than five years between sexual maturity and sexual legality, and people act surprised that there's a problem?" I think it's not merely about the media either - the *objectifying* of women is an issue yes, but the physiological reality of sexual awakening in young teens is a reality. We can't have a blanket either / or situation for young sexually developing individuals, where *ta da* all of a sudden a girl is a sexually mature woman and legitimate 'game' V's itty bitty children who have no awareness of their developing bodies and sexual desires. I began to be aware of some sense of my own sexuality by the age of seven or eight. I didn't know what that awareness was then, but it felt strange and magical like forests at night or something. By twelve my best friends were exploring that awareness by having sex with members of the opposite sex who were (approximately) peers. My own feeling is that we should make allowances for teen peers naturally exploring their developing sexuality with each other, without the dangers of EITHER being deliberately preyed upon and manipulated by far older adults with a specific sexual fetish for children/pubescent teens OR suddenly being launched into full sexual maturity where they are supposed to know and succesfully manage all the social and sexual rules of engagement between adults overnight. |
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26 Feb 10 - 02:21 PM (#2850990) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: MikeL2 hi emma <" btw I have a 24 hour clock MikeL2 :) > I had guessed as much. I was just trying lighten a little a thread that is beginning already to get a little heavy. Yes I realise that this is a serious subject and am not in any way trying to minimise it's importance to all. I read most of the threads and try to take a reasoned ( and reasonable ) stance but sometimes I feel that I should just leave it to the "professional ranters". I was not including you in this. regards MikeL2 |
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26 Feb 10 - 02:43 PM (#2851018) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: mauvepink Androphobes and malcontents? I have not seen Emma attacking gentlemen Do all threads have to go the way of name calling and then the introduction of foul language as a norm? Femiminism is not about hating men. The sexualisation of our children is not a feminist issue per se. It should concern all genders. It certainly affects them and devalues them in time. Just some thoughts. mp |
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26 Feb 10 - 03:14 PM (#2851046) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Amergin Oh another Lizzie Cornish rant and rave.... |
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26 Feb 10 - 03:20 PM (#2851051) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Mississippi Saxaphone man-hating androphobes like Emma B Firstly, I am of the male gender. Secondly, I have met Emma on a number of occasions and I don't recognise your description of her. |
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26 Feb 10 - 03:23 PM (#2851055) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) "Oh another Lizzie Cornish rant and rave...." An aside: Must say LC, you are quite identifiable for your classic reactionary thread titles! Nevertheless I think LC, vocalises much of what (for want of a better term) the err common man thunks, and it's wise to heed some of what she has to say - if one is genuinely concerned with whats going down in the UK today. She's deffo a good barometer for the weather, especially for those who may be sheltered from it though education, increased affluence and altered social situation as opposed to political ideology and initial origins... |
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26 Feb 10 - 03:26 PM (#2851059) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Jean(eanjay) Do all threads have to go the way of name calling and then the introduction of foul language as a norm? I don't like name calling either. I thought it wasn't allowed on mudcat! |
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26 Feb 10 - 03:27 PM (#2851061) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Oh, PS: horrible warty old Feminists are my top heros! Here's to the Blue Stockings! |
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26 Feb 10 - 03:29 PM (#2851065) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: GUEST,MG There are things that can be done..like the little 7 year old leading the Mardi Gras or whatever it was in Argentina...not good. Schools should absolutely have some uniform-like standards for both teachers and students. Mothers and fathers can have standards they set in their homes..granted the girls will rip off the burka the minute they are out of site..but if they bring other girls into the home..at least one mother has written of having extra t-shirts on hand to cover girls who are not dressed for her family's standards. No t shirt, no entrance to home. Government offices should not show exposed private flesh by staff or clients..that si taxpayer money, as is most public transportation. Some of the dresses sold to young children should be considered child neglet as it does expose them to icky thoughts by icky people. We could have some laws that at least get rid of the worst of it. People could still go stark naked at private clubs or parties, but in public there should be decency laws still..and that goes for the stupid-looking young men with their pants hanging over their underwear..don't bother to tell me it is the fashion..they were doing that 20 years ago and it is to annoy people and also to carry contraband. mg |
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26 Feb 10 - 03:57 PM (#2851092) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Emma B Greg F, should I henceforth refer to you as Despard? OK Basingstoke! 'Then make it so' :) |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:01 PM (#2851126) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Crow Sister...I have a link to The Bluestocking Movement on Albion Heart Myspace...or rather, I had a link. Just went over there to test it and the site is no longer there. Such a pity as it was a brilliant site, REALLY good! I'll put in a new link to the Wiki page on them. Have you heard the great song by Ashley Hutching's Rainbow Chasers, called New Bluestockings? It's on there 'Some Colours Fly' CD and speaks of the how women were in the Society, and how some are now, saying how much better it is to use your mind, rather than fall over sideways in the wrong part of town.... So many of my CDs are still in the attic at present, otherwise I'd write the lyrics out for you as they're so good, but you can hear a snippet of it here... New Bluestockings - The Rainbow Chasers The Rainbow Chasers Main Site |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:21 PM (#2851136) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Emma B well never mind here is some info 'A bluestocking is an educated, intellectual woman. Such women are stereotyped as being frumpy' - fortunately not androphobic too :) hmmmm Plus ça change! 'The reference to blue stockings refers to the time when woolen worsted stockings were informal dress, as compared with formal, fashionable black silk stockings. The term originated with the Blue Stockings Society - a literary society founded by Elizabeth Montagu in the 1750s. This provoked derogatory usage in the late 18th century, specifically in reference to women Women are still under pressure to dress fashionably and an old saying is "women don't become bluestockings until men have tired of looking at their legs". Women who fail to do this may become the subject of hostile comment corresponding to older prejudices such as that of William Hazlitt who said, "The bluestocking is the most odious character in society ... she sinks wherever she is placed, like the yolk of an egg, to the bottom, and carries the filth with her." ' In Bluestockings - The Remarkable Story of the First Women to Fight for an Education, Jane Robinson reclaims the term and uses it to pull together an extraordinary tale of misogyny, determination, ambition and the quest for knowledge more than a century later. Wiki Akways good to know that 'Edukashon' is appreciated by some :) |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:26 PM (#2851141) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lox Emma, I never realized you hated men. Poor iggle bubbwy wat! I'm not 'oo fwend anymore |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:28 PM (#2851143) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) "women don't become bluestockings until men have tired of looking at their legs". Women who fail to do this may become the subject of hostile comment corresponding to older prejudices As I say, them horrible warty old feminists are my hero's!* * add wry smiley |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:29 PM (#2851144) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Emma B It's been a bit of a rough year so far - thanks for a few laughs folks and an unintentional one for all my friends from bubblyrat :) |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:30 PM (#2851147) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Oh, just scanned up and finally realised what al the fuss about 'malcontents and androphobes' was about. I don't usually bother reading posts by that poster, so I missed out on all the fun! |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:34 PM (#2851149) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Greg F. Greg F, should I henceforth refer to you as Despard? That would be SIR Despard, Emma. Or possible just Murgatroyd, in the familiar. ;>) |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:43 PM (#2851155) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lox Careful Greg, She hates you deep down ... ... have you ever seen the film about the woman who turns into a panther at night? ... ... I shall say nothing else!!!! |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:51 PM (#2851166) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Emma B Lox - I was called 'man hating' NOT 'man eating' although the shape shifting has a nice folkloric ring ....... :) |
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26 Feb 10 - 05:54 PM (#2851173) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Emma B SIR Despard you may call me Margaret - only my friends call me 'Mad' :) |
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26 Feb 10 - 06:03 PM (#2851184) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Melissa Emma, Thanks for your visit to wiki. I thought blue stocking were faded from too many washings..and that the frumpy part came from being too poor to buy new ones. |
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26 Feb 10 - 08:10 PM (#2851254) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Richard Bridge Hmm, I detect signs of rationality in a few posts. Isn't it odd that all the ranters worry about sexualising girls, never boys? I remember at school one of the other 6th form boys (prep school, so he was 13) got off with a young school matron - probably about 20, and rather pretty. The entire school was mad with jealousy. That was in 1961. A woman has just been sentenced for having sex 200 times with a 12 year old boy. The press pictures of her are not so pretty and I think she was 34, but hell, at the age of 12 I was PRAYING for a woman like that. |
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02 Mar 10 - 04:53 AM (#2853858) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 From Crow Sister: "Must say LC, you are quite identifiable for your classic reactionary thread titles! Nevertheless I think LC, vocalises much of what (for want of a better term) the err common man thunks, and it's wise to heed some of what she has to say - if one is genuinely concerned with whats going down in the UK today." I meant to reply to this one a few days back... CS, WHAT is 'reactionary' about this title? I don't understand what you mean? |
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02 Mar 10 - 05:07 AM (#2853869) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Your thread titles often read like like someone waving a banner demonstrating against something they see as a negative facet of modern society. Or objecting to something they perceive as a *dangerously* liberal trend in modern society. |
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02 Mar 10 - 05:59 AM (#2853901) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 And *that* is wrong? |
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02 Mar 10 - 06:30 AM (#2853933) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Jack Campin I once put Nick Toczek up in my flat for the night. He told me "I like to start the day reading the DAILY EXPRESS because I like to get REALLY FUCKIN ANGRY". It's not like many people subscribe to the Morning Lizziegraph because there's any chance they'll agree with any of it. |
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02 Mar 10 - 06:40 AM (#2853941) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) LC "And *that* is wrong?" I didn't say it was "wrong" Lizzie! I said it was your *style*. Try to get the two things seperated. I find you colourful, distinctive, a very identifiable character online, with very particular views. But if you are going to get your knickers in a twist over it, I'll simply ignore your posts in future. Then there'll be no room for any confusion. |
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02 Mar 10 - 08:05 AM (#2854009) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: MGM·Lion Actually, JaCK, I AGREE WITH QUITE A LOT OF THE DAILY LIZZIEGRAPH. (Sorry, shift accident, not shouting!). As with the journal you ref in using this sobriquet, there is a lot of good sense hidden amongst the verbiage & the predictability of some of the attitudes. Worth seeking, IMO, in both instances. |
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03 Mar 10 - 02:52 AM (#2854705) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: VirginiaTam Well... re the thread title... I heard that very phrase on Beeb Radio 4 the morning that this thread appeared. So Lizzie has only repeated what other (even reputable) news agencies have said. The practice has been going on since I was a child. Say it with me now BARBIE! At six I received a board game called Mystery Date which was marketed to 6 to 14 year old girls. When I was 5, my mom bought me an itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikini. And at 8 I had miniskirts, hot pants and go go boots. I have to say that music videos really made me take note of an upgrade? in attitudes. I was quite disturbed to see my niece (when she was 6 and 7) wriggling around mimicing Brittany et al. |
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03 Mar 10 - 04:20 AM (#2854740) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Thanks, Tam. I've called it that for years, because..that's what it is, basically. It's been worrying the heck out of me for many, many years now...and I've phoned up various Corporate names, trying to get them to open their eyes. Now, it seems, they may start to have no choice in the matter, as hopefully, public opinion finally begins to turn against them for what they have helped create. Ultimately though, it is in the hands of parents, but I realise that it is now harder and harder to protect your children in a world that is seemingly awash with the desire to sexualise them. Liberalism is all very well, but the great danger of it is that it also opens the doors for those with hideous agendas, because they find themselves in this free and open society, where nothing is frowned upon or judged...and they take advantage of that, bigtime! I guess that's why society always used to have the unwritten rules of what was, and was not, acceptable...but those have been blown away now and you are regarded as prudish and odd if you dare to speak out against the flow. I'm Proud to be Prudish, when it comes to the protection of our children's childhoods. |
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03 Mar 10 - 04:52 AM (#2854753) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Jack Campin Actually, JaCK, I AGREE WITH QUITE A LOT OF THE DAILY LIZZIEGRAPH. (Sorry, shift accident, not shouting!). As with the journal you ref in using this sobriquet, there is a lot of good sense hidden amongst the verbiage & the predictability of some of the attitudes. I should have been less ambiguous - I agree the Telegraph is often worth reading and I was referring to the bolus of Lizzie's opinions we get every time we open Mudcat. Lizzie never cites the Telegraph - her ideas all come from the Daily Mail, which is a very different beast. |
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03 Mar 10 - 05:09 AM (#2854761) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Nigel Parsons I'm Proud to be Prudish, when it comes to the protection of our children's childhoods. Yet a potty-mouth at other times. Do you accept that your regular use of sexual referents in your written language (and presumably in your speech)is part of the same problem, bringing matters that would normally be kept for the bedroom (or at least kept between adults) into general use? |
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03 Mar 10 - 10:26 AM (#2854977) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: mauvepink "Liberalism is all very well, but the great danger of it is that it also opens the doors for those with hideous agendas, because they find themselves in this free and open society, where nothing is frowned upon or judged...and they take advantage of that, bigtime" Do you truly believe that? It is not Liberalism that is the risk. Liberalism should be about being open-minded and equality for all. It's the abuse of liberalism that leads to it being taken advantage of. That may be the cost of having an open society with rights for all. Having rights should not mean having no responsibilities. We all should have them for ourselves and each other. Sadly, those who have no respect for themselves will never respect others and are usually most likely to take advantage of freedoms earned them by others. They are not liberal nor is ir liberalism. Often it is greed. The self, self, self, types are not liberal either What I do hate is how being a liberal or showing liberal ideas is often so denigrated and used as an insult by people with non-liberal agendas who want control and discrimination on anyone who is different. That, for me, is where the danger comes from. There are worse things to be called than a liberal! ;-) mp |
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03 Mar 10 - 11:59 AM (#2855050) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "Lizzie never cites the Telegraph - " Actually, I do...you obviously miss some of the links I put in... "her ideas all come from the Daily Mail, which is a very different beast." Really? You say that, not me. I don't actually get any newspaper on a regular basis these days. The one I like best is The Independant, as it always has a different front page story to everyone else, and is intelligent, not running with the herd. So, put that in your Paperism Pipe and smoke it. Thank you. "Yet a potty-mouth at other times." How kind, Nigel. "Do you accept that your regular use of sexual referents in your written language (and presumably in your speech)is part of the same problem, bringing matters that would normally be kept for the bedroom (or at least kept between adults) into general use?" No, I do not accept that. Why? Because I would never use sexual references in front of children, nor write them in a children's book. I have, however, taken books from the 'teenage' section (and younger) of Waterstones, over to the counter and asked the staff if they think the kind of storyline, or language, inside the book is suitable for children or young people, pointing out that in my day (220 years back) this sort of story or language would never ever have been deemed suitable for them. They stare at me, blankly...and you can see the lights going off in their heads..."Weirdo Alert! Call the manager!"....so they do...and I go through it with him as well, because he likes to have an academic discussion on whether something, which I consider to be almost pornographic, is suitable for the elements of a story in the children's section of Waterstones. So far, we have never seen eye to eye. He sells the books, I complain about them. May I politely suggest that you look, then complain as well, Nigel...Ooh, and also, look at children/teenage books in your library as well, because you may be quite surprised at what's inside those pretty, sparkly little covers.. Never judge a book by its cover, has never carried a more sinister meaning... |
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03 Mar 10 - 12:48 PM (#2855097) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: VirginiaTam It all boils down to viewing children as something other than people. They are commodities, they are consumers, they are victims, they are perpetrators, they are hoodlums, they are brats, they are carers, they are statistics. As long as the powers that be (corporations, governments and religions) view people of any age as something that benefits the respective group instead of the other way around then children will continue to be abused, used, coerced, etc. People think child prostitution is new. It is not. Been around since the Hammurabi. And legal* in some western civilisations as late as the 1900s. Children in brothels were inducted into the trade at pretty young ages. |
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03 Mar 10 - 06:16 PM (#2855375) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: robomatic I think some people reacted badly to the title and start of this thread in the sense that it is a statement of something that is both obvious and not remotely new. There is a popular animated series you may have heard of: The Simpsons and whenever there is a town meeting in Springfield, Reverend Lovejoy's wife always loudly proclaims her concern in the same way: "What about the children?" Yes, young children, especially young females, have been sexualized in modern society. But in non-modern societies they are being killed in utero because they are female, having their clitori removed by tribal tradition, impregnated before they can safely bear children, and being put to work, sold into slavery/ prostitution. Many times many times over the comparative few who get talked into being Little Miss Sunshine. Yes you have an issue. NEXT! |
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04 Mar 10 - 03:20 PM (#2856138) Subject: RE: BS: The Sexualisation of our Children From: Paul Burke Just dropped in to see if anyone had thought it was a good idea.. |