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02 Mar 10 - 06:36 PM (#2854531) Subject: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Alan Day Back ground music on TV plays is driving me mad. There is no tune , no reason for it. Some of the music is so loud you cannot hear the dialogue.What is it there for? I have also noticed that peripheral noise has also been increased which drowns out some of the talking. It is a shame that this trend is ruining good story lines and acting. What did she say? I don't know the music covered it up. Al |
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03 Mar 10 - 03:37 AM (#2854723) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Geoff the Duck It annoys me along with a number of other examples of programme makers proving that they don't know their job. Sometimes on "regular" programmes it seems to coincide with a change of director. Suddenly the camera swings from face to face just as each character speaks (or just too late, to specifically insult the lip readers in the audience). Alternatively, in hospital scenes, the camera follows the talking character, but the only noise you can hear is the trolley taking a patient, who isn't even in the story, down the corridor. Another mistake they make when they try to "make it real" is, in a bar or disco scene, to have the characters muttering to each other, with music playing louder than they talk. This is obviously rubbish, as in REAL life, they would be raising their voice to be heard, and one of the characters would be straining to hear, and asking the mutterer to repeat themself as they can't hear a blooming thing. It is all down to the director or editor being incompetent. Quack! GtD. |
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03 Mar 10 - 03:45 AM (#2854726) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Joe Offer I dunno, a good soundtrack can really enhance a movie. Can you imagine To Kill a Mockingbird or Lawrence of Arabia without music? I think it's a matter of production, not the choice to use or not to use music. -Joe- |
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03 Mar 10 - 04:01 AM (#2854733) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Can you get subtitles on telly programmes for people who are hard of hearing? I sometimes see those Sunday reprises with subtitles and wee folk trapped in the bottom right hand corner of the screen ('tis cruel I know) for deaf people. Bit of a thread drift, but I think (from hearing similar complaints with aged relatives) it's probably a person's hearing that is the source of the problem, rather than background music as such. |
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03 Mar 10 - 04:07 AM (#2854735) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,Ed Back ground music on TV plays is driving me mad. There is no tune Quite how you can have music without a tune is beyond me. |
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03 Mar 10 - 04:20 AM (#2854739) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Geoff the Duck Joe - the problem isn't the scene enhancing musical themes, it's the unhelpful stuff which just swamps the scene to the detriment of the story. Music can add to a drama or comedy, but only of it is appropriate to the scene - run the Keystone Cops style chase music when a funeral procession passes and you no longer have sombre drama. On the other hand, when done correctly, it enhances classic movies such as The Big Country with grandiose music across sweeping scenery, or The Magnificent Seven, where snippets of the theme tune hint at what is to come, but do not turn into the main theme until the final member joins. My complaint isn't when it is done well. If done well, for effect, you may think "Oh wow! That's Good", and if done for subtlety, it enhances the scene, but it is appropriate, so it doesn't distract from what is happening. It may set the mood for a romantic interlude, wring tears out of you when the sick character is finally fading, or focus your attention on the fact that a giant shark happens to be getting closer to the boat, but whatever it is, it belongs in the scene. Our complaint is that increasingly, it is at best irrelevant, at worst downright intrusive and in either case spoils the scene. Quack! Geoff the (background noise of distant flock of wildfowl) Duck! |
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03 Mar 10 - 06:48 AM (#2854816) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Jack Blandiver Quite how you can have music without a tune is beyond me. Sorry for asking this but you are being ironic right? Just, I've come across this sort of thing a lot in the folk world, but not for a while I must say... |
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03 Mar 10 - 07:31 AM (#2854839) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T All of the above, plus the fact that they go out of the way to destroy our hearing by turning the volume up to twelve when the ad breaks arrive, and compound that assault by running the loudest ad in the universe first. You have to be hair trigger fast on the mute button if, like me, your set is too old to have a normalise facility. CS, I think your problem may be easy to solve, at least as far as BBC 1 & 2, ITV 1, and Channel 4 are concerned, providing your set has teletext. There is a page number which inserts subtitles to most popular programs. From memory, I believe it was page 888 Don T. |
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03 Mar 10 - 07:46 AM (#2854844) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: melodeonboy I don't deny that well-chosen music can, when used appropriately, enhance films. However, the non-stop racket that accompanies most modern documentaries serves little purpose other than to irritate people like me who are actually trying to listen to what's being said, or to comfort those who have developed a dependency on background noise. |
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03 Mar 10 - 08:05 AM (#2854860) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: bubblyrat It's modern children & teenagers ! They are TOTALLY dependent on ENDLESS music (or what passes for it ; you know,that interminable tssk-tt-tsk-tt-tsk noise on the 'bus ) and would therefore be unable to concentrate,become disorientated,and be sick on the carpet,if they were to watch a music-less TV programme.So there ! |
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03 Mar 10 - 08:19 AM (#2854872) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST, topsie I once tried to watch a Madhur Jaffrey programme on Indian food/cookery but gave up and switched it off as I couldn't hear a word she said through the accompanying Indian music. I was very disappointed. More recently I have given up listening to the World Service at night because of the noise - surely it isn't music - that intrudes on the news headlines. It's like a sounnd-representation of a thumping headache. The only good thing about it being the relief when it stops. |
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03 Mar 10 - 08:24 AM (#2854875) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: glueman I clearly remember the point sometime in the mid 90s when news on pop radio got a backbeat to blend in better with the stuff around it and to stop deadheads switching channel. A Balkan massacre to a tsch-tsch-tsch soundtrack literally had my jaw swinging. We don't think twice about it now. I never listen to news anymore if I can avoid it, which is remarkably difficult. |
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03 Mar 10 - 08:30 AM (#2854884) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Bernard I think the problem is related to the old problem of making one size fit all... these days they are expected to cater for people with a little squawky loudspeaker and people with Dolby 5.1 surround sound systems. The net result is that those without the decoder hear everything jumbled together! As I've got Dolby 5.1, I'm alright, Jack! It's interesting how much the adverts use surround sound, BTW! Sometimes it can be a matter of settings - my daughter recently grumbled that her DVD player wasn't plating everything back... people on screen with their mouths moving, but no speech, just background music. I checked the settings, and it had been switched to Dolby 5.1 even though she only had a mono TV... switched it back to 'normal' and things were fine. Not that I'm suggesting a solution, just a possible explanation! |
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03 Mar 10 - 08:22 PM (#2855475) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,leeneia Alan, I'm sorry to hear that you are being denied enjoyment of plays you want to watch. I have two suggestions: 1. Note the names of the chief actors in the play. Send them a brief letter saying that you'd like to be a fan, but you can't hear them because of the loud music. Do the same for the writer of the play. That should get them going to bat for themselves (and for you) behind the scenes at the studio. 2. An experiment. Buy some hearing protectors such as factory workers use. They are intended to block the noise of machines while letting speech come through. Much pop music is akin to machine noise, so perhaps they will block the incidental music and allow you to hear dialogue. I always wear them on long plane rides. They mask engine noise, yet allow me to hear all the annoucements just fine. |
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03 Mar 10 - 08:38 PM (#2855487) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Rapparee And my pet peeve: Why is there recorded music in restaurants, pubs, and other places where you might actually WANT to talk to others? This also hurts performers, since (as I've seen) many people view the performer, especially acoustic performers, as a kind of background noise and continue loud conversations. Yes, I've asked them to be quiet so the music could be enjoyed, but they just look at you like you're some sort of freak. |
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03 Mar 10 - 09:12 PM (#2855502) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: TonyA I agree, Rapaire: the real problem is the background music in real life, muddling both conversation and music. But this thread may point to the reason why so many people want music only as a background to their poseur lifestyle, i.e. maybe it's because background music contributes to the illusion of being in a movie. |
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03 Mar 10 - 10:47 PM (#2855531) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,leeneia I resented background music in restaurants until the day I sat next to a table where I heard a woman with a voice like a dentist's drill start a long speech with "She was sick the WHOLE TIME she was pregnant!" It occurred to me that one purpose of the music is to provide a form of aural privacy. However, it must be done right, and the music should protect, not intrude. Too often, it does intrude. |
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04 Mar 10 - 05:35 AM (#2855667) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw I'm with Alan on this one. In my experience, it is an American thing (mostly). Watch anything from the good ole U S of A, and you can't understand a word they're talking about. A combination of bad diction and loud background music, plus rubbish sound quality. In contrast, most UK drama is much more subtle and you can hear the words. I'm sure there are exceptions, but it largely holds true. Oh, and whilst Bernard is right in what he says, I find it even worse at the cinema, which is the medium which the films are designed for. |
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04 Mar 10 - 06:25 AM (#2855687) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Will Fly If music in a dramatic production is appropriate, then I can live with that - at a reasonable volume, of course - but what is very annoying is that no documentary can seem to do without background "mood" music. And some of that music is very inappropriate indeed. Furthermore, some music is used over and over again, for different documentaries - as though the production team have absolutely no imagination whatsoever. Think of "Psycho" and Bernard Herrmann's wonderfully appropriate music - and then also think of "The Battle Of Algiers", with no music whatever apart from what is happening around the camera at the time of filming (and some distant drumming and ullulating from the soukh). And then think of the 1,001 TV programmes that use, say, a Moby track for no other reason than that it fills in some sound between and behind the voices. TV as a foam-filled mattress. |
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04 Mar 10 - 07:31 AM (#2855727) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Lizzie Cornish 1 We have to listen to the same tape, playing the latest 'hits' over and over on a loop, in our shop. It drives me bats. The customers too, I think, who'd actually like to shop in peace and quiet and aren't of the age where they want to hear that kind of music... It depends on the music, I suppose, because when I was in The National Trust shop, we played Elgar to Lloyd Webber and all in between and were at least permitted to change the music after each CD had finished. The 'Musicals' one was the best, as it kept the customers in the shop longest, whilst they sang their favourite songs.. Imagine watching 'The Constant Gardner' without being able to hear Ayub Ogada's beautiful music in the background. 'Kothbiro' was as memorable as the film itself. Watch...and Listen... 'The Constant Gardener' with 'Kothbiro' playing in the background |
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04 Mar 10 - 08:30 AM (#2855770) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Gedi It's interesting to note that many 'foreign' films don't use background music in the same way as American or British productions do. They have a completely different feel, far more natural and, in my opinion, more enjoyable. I've seen French, Hungarian, even Japanese films which use this approach and I think US & UK producers could learn a lot from these sort of films. Of course I'm not suggesting that it's suitable for every occasion, but I agree that the background music/soundtrack can often be detrimental and intrusive. cheers Ged |
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04 Mar 10 - 09:01 AM (#2855793) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Bernard Graham: "I find it even worse at the cinema, which is the medium which the films are designed for." Quite so! Probably because there are few seats where it will actully sound as intended - sit too near one of the speakers and you'll get a lop-sided effect. So if at the cinema, try to sit as near the centre of the room as you can! My gripe with cinemas is the way they have the bass (sub woofer) too prominent, so someone on screen shuts a door and the whole building vibrates! They aren't going for realism, instead they are trying to please the crowd with fancy effects - it makes money. In a way, it harks back to the days when people had 'stereograms' (radio and record player plus two loudspeakers all in one big box)... Many pop records in the 1960s were issued in 'stereo' which often wasn't! Instead, you may have had the instruments coming out of one loudspeaker and the vocals from the other, and everyone said 'Wow! Listen to that stereo effect!' - for instance, early Beatles albums (amongst others, of course) were released in both Mono and Stereogram formats. |
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04 Mar 10 - 10:45 AM (#2855888) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Seayaker I sympathise with Lizzie Cornish. I used to work in a unit that had the appalling local F.M. station piped into it which just broadcast the same trashy pop records interspersed with repeats of adverts; I don't know which was the most irritating. As I worked by myself most of the time a bit of attention from a Swiss Army Knife muted the speakers. The result was a much more pleasant working environment. I think the problem with T.V. sound is age related. My son can pick up dialogue that I find fuzzed out by background noise. |
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04 Mar 10 - 11:17 AM (#2855912) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,leeneia Whoever you were, spare us the sneers about America. Pop music and noise culture are very widespread. I have gritted my teeth in Iceland and cringed in fine restaurants in Paris. I remember having supper in a pub in the far north of Scotland where the music was simply execrable. I believe that the stuff is simply a side effect of having 40-year-old males in charge of most establishments. ======== Seayaker, I applaud your Swiss Army approach. |
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04 Mar 10 - 11:56 AM (#2855953) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: MikeL2 Hi CS You are on the button. My wife and I are no longer of tender years and we are slightly ( and I mean slightly) hard of hearing. We don't need the subtitles but we do find it difficult to make out dialogue that has background music running beneath it. Why do we need background music when it is a dialogue scene?? The BBC are trying to save money...here is one way I would suggest - do away with unecessary background music. We even get it on news bulletins !!! Whilst on saving money they should do away with all the trailers and advertisements. They are getting more and more lengthy and numerous. I agree with Joe though some scenes are enhanced by the soundtrack....but please not with a dialogue scene. Cheers MikeL2 |
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04 Mar 10 - 12:55 PM (#2856010) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Alan Day If you get time just have a listen to "Five Days" BBC1 and you will hear exactly what I dislike. Musical noises in no particular order for no particular reason. Al |
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04 Mar 10 - 02:18 PM (#2856071) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T It has even spread to live music. How often, these days, do we hear a live acoustic band who are vocally inaudible because each member is trying to outdo the others in showing off his instrumental talent. Even quite well respected recording studios seem to have forgotten that the song needs to be in front of the instruments in the final mix. A whole generation, or more, has been subjected to intrusive music in every way possible. They are probably used to it, but for us it is at best, irritating, and at worst, torture. By the time they reach our age, a significant proportion will be functionally deaf. Don T. |
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04 Mar 10 - 08:46 PM (#2856393) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,Matt_R Turn off your hearing aids and you'll all be fine! |
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24 May 10 - 04:54 PM (#2913375) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,dan Background sounds of autos or el trains in a street scene enhance the visual and audio of the scene, however, when that is accompanied by loud music, guitars, piano music or electronic musical sound effects we get garbage. Seems the sound directors get their way by implanting this annoying sound effects at the expense of dialogue. I have, on numerous occasions, turned off the TV or DVD because the background noise is overwhelming. Does anyone care about the viewing audience? I don't think so. |
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24 May 10 - 08:05 PM (#2913530) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Guest Matt R, I don't have a hearing aid, as I have managed to protect my hearing in the face of the worst that TV and Cinema can do. Nevertheless, I am constantly irritated by producers and directors who don't have sufficient faith in the dialogue to let it be heard. And on the subject of age, I have recently had conversations with a number of local youngsters who, for reasons unknown, rate my musical talents quite positively. Their response to the above comments regarding their need for loud music was revealing. Putting it succinctly, I was told "That's crap! When we are listening to music, we like it loud, OK? When we watch a film or play, we want to hear the dialogue. Bear in mind that it's people your age, not ours, who produce these noisy abortions, and we like them even less than you do. Perhaps you should tell them, 'cos they don't listen to us". Maybe they are right? Don T. |
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25 May 10 - 03:35 AM (#2913733) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Alan Day There is no doubt that hearing related problems for young people will increase.It can be viewed daily or heard when cars pull up alongside you with the base almost vibrating through you. I rarely go to the cinema, but on my rare visits I could not cope with the noise. Even taking my Granddaughter to a Pantomime the amplification was deafening. Deafness or partial deafness has been the object of ridicule for many through the years (Are you listening Matt R ), but it is becoming a major social problem and it is about time TV stations and other organisations started listening to their complaints. Al |
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25 May 10 - 03:55 AM (#2913748) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Joe Offer: "I dunno, a good soundtrack can really enhance a movie. Can you imagine To Kill a Mockingbird or Lawrence of Arabia without music? I think it's a matter of production, not the choice to use or not to use music." I agree with Joe, and wanted to include, "Somewhere in Time" arguably the most beautiful sentiments put in music, for a film, where the music was interwoven, into the main theme of the story! written by John Barry, the first piece he had written after the death of both his parents, trying to describe in music, their love for each other! End title track...enjoy GfS |
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25 May 10 - 07:05 AM (#2913831) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Sir Roger de Beverley Whilst generally being very "anti" background music of any kind, I did miss some last week when The Exorcist was shown on UK TV without the Mike Oldfield soundtrack - weird (I mean even weirder than it is anyway!) R |
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25 May 10 - 07:39 AM (#2913852) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: fat B****rd Just to be pedantic I'm not at all impressed with the Countdown style stuff when Flog It (UK BBC) gets to the auction stage. |
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25 May 10 - 07:57 AM (#2913865) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,Dáithí Was watching reruns of the original The Prisoner series from the sixties on tv the other night. Nipped into the kitchen to make a cup and suddenly I thought there had been a power cut (often happens when I put too many appliances on at the same time..live in a field!). But no. When I popped my head back into the sitting room to check, the tv hadn't gone off at all - the scenes showing were just silent...because the director wanted it that way. I also noticed the absence of fast cutting - it was altogether more enjoyable to watch and far less frantic than many modern shows. And just as much tension etc. D |
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25 May 10 - 10:55 AM (#2913943) Subject: RE: Background Music, WHY? From: GUEST,Why watch TV anyway? Television makes people stupid. Turn ir off! Give it away.smash it and recycle the pieces. I haven't used a television for years, since laptops became affordable. Movies yes, teleplays and commercials nevermore! By the way, "background" is one word. At least here in America anyway. Turn off the telly and pick up your instrument! Lou |
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25 May 10 - 11:06 AM (#2913954) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,leeneia "Why is there recorded music in restaurants, pubs, and other places where you might actually WANT to talk to others?" One reason is that it keeps one table from having to listen to another. I remember a quiet restaurant where "She was sick the WHOLE TIME she was pregnant!" sailed through the air to every table. That's when I knew what background music was for. I agree that it should be in the background, not so loud that people have to raise their voices to speak to one another. ======= Can't help anybody on the TV issues. I don't watch TV. |
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25 May 10 - 12:41 PM (#2914013) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Alan Day It obviously makes people feel better about not watching TV because they are always on about it. Al |
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25 May 10 - 01:25 PM (#2914052) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Bert It is done to cover up studio noise. It has been a problem for over 50 years. The reason it is getting worse is that modern directors lack the ability to control others in the studio. |
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25 May 10 - 02:15 PM (#2914087) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Alan Day Interesting Bert, I never even considered that. Pretty poor that many cannot hear the words due to a bit of stage control and organisation. Al |
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25 May 10 - 02:41 PM (#2914112) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Don Firth Amazing in this day and age how live stage plays can be thoroughly gripping with no music whatsoever. Don Firth |
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25 May 10 - 02:47 PM (#2914116) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Don: "Amazing in this day and age how live stage plays can be thoroughly gripping with no music whatsoever." What next?..pantomime philharmonics??? Just kidding, Don.....by the way, Hi....and don't argue! GfS |
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25 May 10 - 03:50 PM (#2914159) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Richard Bridge Why did silent film theatres have a live pianist? |
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25 May 10 - 05:43 PM (#2914236) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Alan Day Following on to Bert's point, there are some series that actually turn up the back ground noise to make effect. The simple act of walking down a corridor where the footsteps are louder than the actors voices. At least the piano did not drown out the actors talking Richard.Nice thought though. I still remember the organist at Tooting Granada ,but he appeared between films. The organ then used to sink slowly to lower stage level at which point a hail of ice cream cartons would fly through the air to speed his departure. Al |
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26 May 10 - 06:28 AM (#2914505) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: bubblyrat I tend to agree with Joe Offer; I mean,that shot of the submarine on the surface,leaving UK waters,with the main theme from "Ice Station Zebra" playing is iconic !!And Richard Rodgers' music from "Victory at Sea "--what can I say ?? But,sadly,many TV programmes in Britain suffer from having just the one piece of theme music,which they insist on playing at seemingly EVERY opportunity ; a good example is "Coast"---when it first came to our screens, I found the music quite pleasant, stirring,even, but now I find it repulsive and intrusive--too much of a good thing ,too often !! |
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26 May 10 - 07:03 AM (#2914516) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Fred McCormick I suspect it's something to do with the formula for the attention span of the average viewer. IE., 2 seconds of silence = channel switch. It drives me scatty as well. Many's the otherwise promising documentary that I've turned off because of the deafening, pounding, tuneless, wake up the neighbours, drown out the commentary background music. |
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26 May 10 - 09:04 AM (#2914565) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,kendall I believe that it is simply because young people rule the roost these days and so many of them have empty heads that they have to fill it with noise. In a restaurant I often ask that the muzak be turned down. 9 times out of 10 they will. If they won't I leave. They need me more than I need them. If the next table is annoying me, I ask for a change of tables. I also have a pair of shooter's ear protectors which I will use if I am driven to it. |
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26 May 10 - 10:02 AM (#2914593) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: Alan Day I read "I also have a pair of shooters" now that would be a way to create a bit of piece and quite. I read on "Ear protectors" a great way to miss the waiter asking for a tip. Al |
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26 May 10 - 10:16 AM (#2914596) Subject: RE: Back ground Music, WHY? From: GUEST,leeneia I have unusually sensitive hearing. I carry hearing protection almost always, and I think more people should do it. My preferred brand is Mack's, which are malleable white blobs, not very noticeable. They don't poke my ear canal, the way some other brands do. Loud noise, even if it's from an enjoyable source, raises the blood pressure and leaves people tired. I use my hearing protectors on airplanes, in certain cars, and on subways. ('Parade' Magazine recently had an article which specifically mentioned wearing protection on subways.) Unfortunately, I don't feel comfortable eating with hearing protectors over my ears. Chewing makes them bob around too much. Recently we had dinner with a family that included a girl of four. She was so excited and happy to have company, to be able to show off, and to realize that we liked her. At times her voice would skyrocket up so high and so loud that it felt like every nerve in the trunk of my body was standing on end, trying to protest. But I just sat there and smiled. Some things are too innocent and natural to change. |