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09 Mar 10 - 09:41 AM (#2860049) Subject: BS: Burns Scotch From: GUEST,Roadrunner I was slated some time ago as a "racist" for calling Scotch people Scotch! Look what I found on the net: A 1788 letter by Robert Burns says in part: "Apropos, is not the Scotch phrase Auld lang syne exceedingly expressive? There is an old song and tune which has often thrilled through my soul. You know I am an enthusiast in old Scotch songs." ("Auld Lang Syne" in The Burns Encyclopedia, at robertburns.org). Burns wrote of himself in 1787, "The appellation of a Scotch Bard, is by far my highest pride; to continue to deserve it is my most exalted ambition." ("National Bard, Scotland's", op. cit.). Thus also Byron: English Bards and Scotch Reviewers ref.,1809). |
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09 Mar 10 - 09:50 AM (#2860058) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: Mr Red Maybe they are sensitive because of the other uses of the word scotch. Apart from drink for eggs ample (**BG**) I always knew a scotch as a wedge, or something to hold (say) a door open. and it was used as a verb. By using "Scots" we avoid the ambiguity, or we have to be more wordy to get the meaning across. |
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09 Mar 10 - 10:38 AM (#2860091) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: Bill D Basically, I think 'Scotch' should operate as an adjective, and 'Scot' as a noun....thus "Scotch Whiskey" which was invented by "Scots". But once 'Scotch' began to be used as a noun by itself, it all began to sound strange. In the Burns quote, it is used each time to modify a noun. |
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09 Mar 10 - 10:55 AM (#2860109) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: goatfell AND PEOPLE FROM SCOTLAND ARE CALLED SCOTS, SCOTCH IS WHISKY |
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09 Mar 10 - 11:14 AM (#2860132) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: Bill D Isn't that mostly what I said?...without using all caps? |
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09 Mar 10 - 12:21 PM (#2860196) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: Gern Would Goatfell then be cyber-shouting at Robert Burns for the way he used the word 'Scotch?'Isn't that like telling Van Morrison how to drink? |
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09 Mar 10 - 01:03 PM (#2860218) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: John MacKenzie Yada yada yada. We've been through all this before. Use of language is normally based on common usage, and if Burns were alive today, I'm pretty sure he would use the word in common usage today, i.e. Scots. |
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09 Mar 10 - 02:04 PM (#2860274) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: Gurney Well, it will burn, but that's a waste..... |
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09 Mar 10 - 02:24 PM (#2860298) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: olddude glenlivet for this old dude for sure !! everything else well it isn't Scots ... LOL |
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09 Mar 10 - 02:43 PM (#2860318) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: MikeL2 hi I think it is a little more complicated than expressed above. As I understood it the adjective is Scottish, except for Whisky which is always Scotch. As a noun it is Scot(s). Another interesting note is that in Scotland whisky has no "e" but in Ireland it is whiskey. hic....hic slange MikeL2 |
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09 Mar 10 - 02:52 PM (#2860328) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: Jack Campin Niel Gow's "Farewell to Whiskey" was spelt like that when he published it. The obsession with nationally-specific spelling is a twentieth century thing. |
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09 Mar 10 - 03:01 PM (#2860333) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: PoppaGator Is use of the adjective "Scottish" (rather than "Scots") itself offensive to anyone? I've been of the opinion that it's at least a little less unseemly that the dreaded "Scotch"... In the US, the term "Scotch-Irish" is still the common and accepted term for the ancestry of a very large segment of our population, descendants of the many Ulster-Presbyterian types (and others) transported to populate the British "New World" colonies. The next town to the east of my birthplace (Plainfield NJ) is a municipality named Scotch Plains. Would political/ethnic correctness require that it be renamed "Scots Plains"? (For some residents of north/central Jersey, the pronunciation would be largely unaffected anyway...) |
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09 Mar 10 - 03:50 PM (#2860378) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: Jim McLean No No No not again! I only wish those Scots who object to Scotch as an adjective and the spelling of Scotch whiskey would spend a little time reading. Nearly all 19th century literature used 'Scotch' as an adjective and the Royal Commision on Whiskey (1908-1909) includes the 'e' throughout its definitions and there are many advertisements for the 1900s for both 'Scotch Whiskey' and 'Irish Whiskey'. And while we're on this theme, another myth which should be dispelled is the belief that Mc is Irish while Mac is Scottish. Again perusal of 19th century literature (and before) shows that Mc, which is used almost all the time when referring to Highland names, is actually M open quote, which looks like an apostrophe but turned round to look like a small 'c' (or superscript c). Please, a little research before mouthing off those ignorant, unsubstantiated 'truths'. |
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09 Mar 10 - 04:03 PM (#2860398) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: olddude Ok so when we were kids the game we played was it hop scotch or hop scots ... I am so confused ... I am gettin me headache again |
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09 Mar 10 - 04:06 PM (#2860404) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: olddude and what if a Scot drinks Scotch ... or is it Scotch Scotch or Scot Scotch or Scotch's Scots ... I am soooo confused !!! and if the guys name is Scott ... then I am in a computer loop ... ... Scotts drinking Scot Scotch ... good grief sigh |
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09 Mar 10 - 04:13 PM (#2860411) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: bubblyrat It's time we Scotched this ugly rumour once and for all. And Scottie was Canadian,anyway. |
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09 Mar 10 - 04:44 PM (#2860449) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: MAG So are all or most Ulster Scots who came here in the eighteenth century transported, or did they merely come here? or is "transported" not specific to involuntary relocation? |
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09 Mar 10 - 09:27 PM (#2860650) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: Q (Frank Staplin) Look up transport, transported in the dictionary rather than attempting redefinition. |
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09 Mar 10 - 10:39 PM (#2860669) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: Sandy Mc Lean As a descendant of Highlanders I know that they referred to themselves as "Scotch". I think that people today who would correct me for quoting them are full of s... (Scotch?) :-} |
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10 Mar 10 - 05:13 AM (#2860825) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: GUEST,Allan Connochie "I was slated some time ago as a "racist" for calling Scotch people Scotch!" It would be way over the top to condemn someone as a racist just because they used the word Scotch especially if they didn't know the fact that the word is out of favour amongst Scots and has been for some time. Originally it was an English contraction for Scottish which became widely used in Scotland itself and of course there was nothing derogatory about it at all. It seems to have gone out of common use in Scotand itself (apart from its use as an adjective with whisky etc) during the 20thC when Scots and Scottish came back into normal usage. Because people know many Scots tend to not like being labled Scotch the word is often used now in a derogatory sense though even at that it is only mildly derogatory. Basically the use and perception of words change. Many Scottish people will be slightly irritated if you call them Scotch but would maybe be a wee bit more resentful if you call them Scotch once you know that they don't like it. |
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10 Mar 10 - 05:21 AM (#2860828) Subject: RE: BS: Burns Scotch From: GUEST,Allan Connochie "I think it is a little more complicated than expressed above. As I understood it the adjective is Scottish, except for Whisky which is always Scotch. As a noun it is Scot(s)." Scottish and Scots can and are both used as adjectives. |