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10 Mar 10 - 04:15 PM (#2861325) Subject: French naval songs c.1760 From: GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin There has recently been the 250th anniversary of a sea battle just off the coast of the Isle of Man. On 28th February 1760, a squadron of three British Royal Navy vessels under Commander John Elliot beat a squadron of three French vessels under Captain Francois Thurot. The battered French vessels with prisoners were brought into Ramsey Bay on 29th February (leap year!). I'm doing a talk about the event later this year, and I wanted some music to go with it. In 1759, 'Heart of Oak' was set to music and became so popular that the Royal Navy sang it going into battle, and it's now an official march. From about 1740 there's 'Rule Britannia' and also 'Marri-ed to a Mermai-ed at the Bottom of the Deep Blue Sea'. I'm a bit stuck for an appropriate French song. I was excited about 'Le 31 du mois d'aout', but it dates from 1800. There's reference to a song about a vessel called the Foudrayant, taking on three British vessels in 1758, which would be ideal, but only a couple of verses are given, and no tune. If anyone knows of appropriate songs, I'd be very grateful indeed if you were to point me towards websites with lyrics, tunes, recorded versions, etc. Gura mie eu, Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin |
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10 Mar 10 - 07:25 PM (#2861451) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Artful Codger You might try Histoire de la chanson populaire en France (1889) at Google Books. Although it may not provide the songs themselves, it should give you some titles to investigate. It does contain the melodies for a number of songs. Also: Chansons populaires du pays de France (1909) Here's an entire web site of French sea songs: Chansons des marins Some of the songs come with MP3s. Sadly, historical info looks scarce. I believe Stan Hugill gave a number of French sea songs in his books, along with their history. But as I got the books from the library, I can't easily check which ones might suit. Haven't checked on dates, but "(Il était) un petit navire" may be a possibility, since it gave rise to some British and American sea songs, like Thackeray's "Little Billee". Hunting up an interesting tune for it may be a challenge, though, as I recall from my earlier efforts. Check out Les Cap-Horniers. A listing of their repertoire may be found here, with brief descriptive notes. |
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10 Mar 10 - 09:12 PM (#2861508) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Monique Combat de la Danaé Lyrics and mp3 sample. The song "La prise du Foudroyant" is on "Cahiers de chants de marins" #5 from Le Chasse-Marée, page 21 and there are 12 verses and a score but I couldn't find anything online. |
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11 Mar 10 - 06:35 AM (#2861695) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Monique LA PRISE DU FOUDROYANT Nous sommes partis de Toulon Trois grands navires de la nation, C'était pour s'en aller croiser Sur les côtes d'Espagne. À Lisbonne, nous avons mouillé En attendant l'escadre. Mais quand l'escadre est arrivée, A bien fallu appareiller, Faut mettre Foudroyant au vent, Grand' voile et la misaine. C'est pour aller joindre faction, Mouiller à Carthagène. Toute la journée marchons grand train En poursuivant notre chemin, Le temps n'a pas voulu changer, La tempête et l'orage Nous ont fort bien déportés Cinquante lieues au large. Le lendemain au point du jour Nous vîmes venir tout droit sur nous Trois grands navires, vaisseaux anglais, Filant comme la foudre Et qui en un instant croyaient Nous réduire en poudre. Nous les avons bien repérés Sur nos basses voiles carguées, Ils ont pas voulu commencer, La chose est surprenante. Sont nos canons de 36 Qu'ont commencé la danse. Ils ont tiré un coup de canon Sur notre mât d'artimon, Dessus le pont, tout est tombé, Les voiles et les cordages, La grande vergue et les huniers, Criblés par la mitraille. Notre combat a bien duré Trois jours et trois nuits sans cesser, On voyait les boulets rouler D'un bâtiment à l'autre. Jamais on n'avait vu combat En rien semblable au nôtre. Pour finir notre affliction, Nous vîmes venir comme des lions Douze gros vaisseaux anglais Venant tout en furie. Ils ont lâché dessus mon bord Toutes leurs batteries. Et quand nous fûmes démâtés, A bien fallu se résigner : -Allons garçons, faut amener Pavillon d'assistance, Car nous sommes bien éloignés De la terre de France. Et quand le pavillon amené, À bord il vint un officier, C'était de la part des Anglais, Faisant grande révérence, En disant : -Messieurs les Français, Ne faites point de résistance. -Ah oui ! ah oui ! nous le savons Car c'est avant que nous nous rendions, Auriez-vous la peine d'entrer, D'entrer dans la chambre. Vous parlerez à notre général Qui y est pour vous entendre. Le capitaine s'est écrié : -Que l'on m'apporte mon porte-voix, Que l'on m'apporte mon porte-voix, Que j' publie la sentence. Or adieu donc, beau Foudroyant Tu n'es plus pour la France. |
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11 Mar 10 - 07:07 AM (#2861726) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Thank you both very much for the information. I'll check out the score for La prise de Foudroyant, and I hope to be able to either get a recording or someone to sing at least some of it on the night. The battle off the Isle of Man was 28th February 1760, and coincidentally Le Foudrayant was captured on 28th February 1758, after a three-day battle, subsequently being refitted as HMS Foudrayant. Gura mie mooar eu - Merci bien! Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin |
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11 Mar 10 - 08:03 AM (#2861751) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Monique On "Les chants de marins", there's no time signature, it's in G-major and the notes are (1/8th = no mention, 1/4 =2, dotted 1/4 =3, underscore between the notes = slur) B, E F G G G G G_F2 A G F E2 D E F G_F2 B, E F G F G A B3 B A G F G A_G F2 B, E F G A G E E_D2 E F A G F G_F E2. |
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11 Mar 10 - 09:07 AM (#2861795) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: bubblyrat Was that the same Foudroyant that was,for many years,lying moored in Portsmouth harbour,and was regarded as being the oldest wooden "ship of the line" still afloat ?? If so,then a testament to French ship-building prowess,sadly (for them) not matched by their gunnery skills. |
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11 Mar 10 - 09:49 AM (#2861816) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Monique Guys, in "Chants de marins, à la découverte d'une tradition vivante" from "Le chasse-marée" Editions they say that the name of the ship "Le Flamboyant" is also found as "Foudrion" and with this "foudrion" it's easier to find info: YouTube-Le combat du Foudrion. In the book mentioned above the tune is said to have been recorded in 1953 from Lévi Le Bouthillier in Haut Saint Simon (New Brunswick). Lyrics and score, another one, another tune to listen to. In the book mentioned above they say that only 2 versions have been noted down in France vs 40 odd in Canada. Bubblyrat, it seems that not (Wiki article). Some French ships were called "Foudroyant" (the song is about the 6th) and so were some English ships too as a commemoration of the fact of arms (so they say in this last article in French) |
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11 Mar 10 - 11:54 AM (#2861901) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Les from Hull Bubbyrat - that Foudroyant one was built in Plymouth Dockyard, launched in 1798 and wrecked at Blackpool in 1897. The ex-French prize Foudroyant (captured in the Mediterranean in 1758) was broken up in 1787. It was not unusual to name a ship after a previously captured one. The Americans built a 'Macedonian' named for the one they captured from the British but was not worth keeping, and in turn the British built an HMS President as a copy of the one captured from the Americans in 1815. |
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11 Mar 10 - 06:31 PM (#2862175) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Les from Hull Actually Trincomalee was named Foudroyant for many years, taking the name after that one was lost in 1897. She is now back to being Trincomalee. Sorry I got confused. It's an age thing. |
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11 Mar 10 - 07:34 PM (#2862213) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: EnglishFolkfan Les I was initially confused as to which Foudroyant it was! Thought about posting this historical info earlier but didn't consider it relevant but may be of interest to someone: Royal Navy Museum: HMS Foudroyant and HMS Trincomalee HMS Trincomalee (ex 2nd Foudroyant) Now restored in Hartlepool where she remains. Lived there when they finished HMS Warrior restoration & she went to Portsmouth but the Borough Council bought this hulk to keep the apprentices & crafts people in work, is 2nd oldest ship of her type in the World. Was tremendous success imo as led to the creation of the marina & museums + Tall Ships restoration centre. HMS Trincomalee 1817 also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Trincomalee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Foudroyant_(1798) named for the one in the song. |
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11 Mar 10 - 09:12 PM (#2862270) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: CET The Quebec group Serre L'Ecoute do a brilliant version of Le Foudrion. Yet I try to follow the directions for making a blue clicky and fail miserably. |
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11 Mar 10 - 09:13 PM (#2862271) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: CET You can get Serre L'Ecoute's CDs through CAMSCO music. |
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11 Mar 10 - 09:52 PM (#2862293) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Hrothgar I wonder how many French naval songs are about victories? ... beacause if they only have them about victories, that might explain why they're harder to find. |
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11 Mar 10 - 11:15 PM (#2862318) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Artful Codger Here is an ABC of the music in Cahiers de chants de marins, which I prepared from Monique's notation above and a scan of the score which she sent me. X:1 T:La Prise du Foudroyant S:Cahier de chants de marins, #5, p. 21, from Le Chasse-Mar\'ee N:From the singing of L\'evi Le Houthillier, Haut Siant Simon, New Brunswick, 1953 % Fermatas (H) added by the ABC transcriber; they do not appear in the original score. % The tempo marking is the transcriber's rough guess. M:none L:1/8 Q:1/4=80 K:G B, E F G G G G (G HF2) A G F E2 D E F (G HF2) w: Nous som-mes par-tis de Tou-lon_ Trois grand na-vires de la na-tion._ B, E F G F G A HB3 B A G F G (A G) HF2 w: C'\'e-tait pour s'en al-ler croi-ser Sur les c\^o-tes d'Es-pa--gne. B, E F G A G E (E HD2) E F A G F (G F) HE2 |] w: \`A Lis-bonn' nous a-vons mouil-l\'e._ Et at-ten-dent l'es-ca--dre. You can plug it into Concertina.net's Tune-o-Tron to produce dots or a MIDI. |
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12 Mar 10 - 03:55 AM (#2862395) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Monique Thanks Artful! For those interested in getting the French shanties songbooks "Cahiers de chants de marins" formerly published by Le Chasse-marée, they are now available at Éditions Glénat |
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17 Mar 10 - 05:17 AM (#2865843) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin Haven't had a chance to check for a few days, and lo! - there's a wealth of knowledge out there in Mudcat land. But we all know that already, which is why we're so appreciative of it! Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin. |
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14 Nov 10 - 03:39 PM (#3032077) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: katlaughing I seem to be following around and finding wonderful links, today. My Rog and I are really enjoying listening to Maree De Paradise (sorry for the lack of diacritical marks.) Thanks! |
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14 Nov 10 - 05:23 PM (#3032170) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Monique I've just come across the Dutch shanty choir De Batraven where you can listen to lots of shanties. I arrived there through Chants de marins where you can listen to the very same songs. They say the recordings come directly from the singers' sites so maybe some links don't work. On the links section of this blog you can find links to some groups' sites (chants de marins, chants de mer, groupes), to repertoires (chants de mer, répertoires)... |
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14 Nov 10 - 05:35 PM (#3032179) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: GUEST,Tom Bliss Goodness - this is timely! I'm only researching mid 18th C French naval songs as we speak. Thanks for the info. Tom |
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14 Nov 10 - 08:42 PM (#3032285) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: katlaughing Great link, Monique! Mudcat at its best! |
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15 Nov 10 - 06:06 AM (#3032501) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: GUEST,John Moulden A little earlier than his failure off the Isle of Man, Thurot and his ships captured Carrickfergus in Co Antrim. Accounts, and songs about this are in Thomas Crofton Croker Popular songs illustrative of the French Invasions of Ireland (Parts 1 and 2) 1 published by the Percy Society in February 1845 and November 1846. Part One is Thurot's memoir, Part two deals with the capture. |
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23 Nov 10 - 08:13 PM (#3039093) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: GUEST I WANT ENGLISH PLEASE!!! |
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23 Nov 10 - 08:44 PM (#3039111) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: CET Discuss: What do you find most remarkable about the anonymous Guest's post? a) His stupidity in not noticing that this is a thread about French naval songs; or b) The depth to which he has his head inserted in his own anal orifice. Edmund |
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23 Nov 10 - 09:31 PM (#3039142) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Charley Noble Edmund- It's hard to be patient with apparently rude guests. One never really knows if they are simply brash or ignorant of how this forum can function. Maybe this "Guest" in question would be bold enough to clarify. Charley Noble |
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24 Nov 10 - 03:03 PM (#3039732) Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760 From: Dead Horse Quote: Discuss: What do you find most remarkable about the anonymous Guest's post? That the moron actually managed to spell it all correctly ? |