30 Mar 10 - 01:44 AM (#2875314) Subject: Songs Critical of Military Service From: GUEST,C. William I don't imagine this will be a popular request, but I'm looking for songs (traditional or otherwise) explicitly critical of military service or soldiers themselves. Too many pacifist anthems are too quick to absolve the individual soldier of personal responsibility for their role in perpetuating armed conflict. I can only come up with two so far: Universal Soldier (Buffy Sainte-Marie) Mercenaries (Leon Rosselson) Thanks for the help! |
30 Mar 10 - 02:14 AM (#2875324) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Dave Hanson Arthur McBride, trad. McCafferty or McCaffery, trad, which is a true story, the events took place at Fullwood Barracks, Preston. The Press Gang, trad. Twa Recruiting Sergeants, trad. Andrew Rose, trad. just a small beginning. Dave H |
30 Mar 10 - 03:38 AM (#2875357) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: MGM·Lion Not quite clear what the OP is asking for, which seems to be at odds with the title he has given his thread. The last post, from Dave Hanson, names songs which are critical of the services and their demands on those who serve. But Guest C William seemed to be asking for songs critical of those who actually opt for service and choose to become professional fighting men, rather than those who are pressed or underhandedly recruited {as in Press Gang, Macaffery}, or of those who recruit them or try to do so {Arthur McBride, Recruiting Sgts}. These are not identical, but rather opposed, requirements. Which are we being asked for? |
30 Mar 10 - 04:23 AM (#2875367) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Jim Carroll There are litrally thousands of them; I'm sure the Roman soldier guarding Hadrian's Wall was singing them - he was certainly scrawling graffitti. My favoirite (seldom sung) verse is from the arch-type of the genre, 'Browned Off' . The medical inspection, it is a bleedin' farce; They grope around your bollocks and they finger up your arse, For even a private's privates enjoy no privacy. You sacrifice all that to save democracy. Chorus: For I was browned off, browned off, browned of as can be, Browned off, browned off; an easy mark, that's me. But when this war is over and again I'm free, There'll be no more trips around the world for me. Jim Carroll |
30 Mar 10 - 04:33 AM (#2875370) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Bounty Hound How about some of Kiplings Barrack room ballads, brilliantly set to music by Peter Bellamy. Or, the highly emotionally charged 'The Deserter' by John Richards |
30 Mar 10 - 04:43 AM (#2875378) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Jack Campin "Christians At War", in the IWW Songbook. "I don't want to join the army...", presumably in Digitrad. |
30 Mar 10 - 04:53 AM (#2875388) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Micca The best poem in what, I understood as, being asked that prompted my post above is Tommy by Rudyard kipling and he was writing about a campaign in Afganistan too back in the 1880s!!(the more things change???) and the treatment of the soldiers at home hasn't changed that much either! |
30 Mar 10 - 04:55 AM (#2875389) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Micca Sorry the reference to above was referring to my post in the "thats how we serve them in England thread" |
30 Mar 10 - 04:55 AM (#2875390) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Bryn Pugh Kipling's "Danny Deever". |
30 Mar 10 - 05:09 AM (#2875396) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: MGM·Lion But you are STILL, all of you, posting songs of hatred for being in the service ~~ while, as I understood it, the OP was asking for exactly the opposite ~~ songs critical of those who gloried in their military role; or at least were content with it as a living, serving as mercenaries &c. If I have got that wrong, I apologise: perhaps he will come back & clarify which it was he wanted? Look at his OP again & I am sure you will see what I mean. |
30 Mar 10 - 05:17 AM (#2875399) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Jack Campin MtheGM, is "Christians at War" not critical enough for you? |
30 Mar 10 - 05:47 AM (#2875411) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Sugwash When the boys are on Parade by Marcus Turner. Andy Irvine does an excellent version on his album 'Way Out Yonder'. |
30 Mar 10 - 05:54 AM (#2875415) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Sugwash Here's the words. Andy Irvine adds a verse at the end about women now marching beside the men. I don't know if Marcus Turner or AI wrote the missing verse. When the Boys Are On Parade Marcus Turner Here they come marching past the houses, shiny boots and khaki blouses Stiff as the creases in their trousers standing tall and straight and strong And they all keep in step together glint of steel and flash of leather Braving every kind of weather as they boldly march along You may dismiss it as a ploy for the enlistment of the boys Who'll be impressed to see the toys and play the games that can be played And you may well prefer abstention but I feel compelled to mention You'd do well to pay attention when the Boys are on Parade. Look at your sons before they're older they'll be stronger they'll be bolder Just the thing to make a soldier and we'll turn them into men And they'll be taught to follow orders, keep the peace and guard the borders To protect us from marauders and defend us to the end. But the position they'll be filling is to be able and be willing To be killed or do the killing when there's a price that must be paid And you may well prefer abstention but I feel compelled to mention You'd do well to pay attention when the Boys are on Parade. In the pursuit of a community of decency and unity And equal opportunity we stand prepared to fight And if there's a threat to our position from aggressive opposition The with guns and ammunition we'll defend with all our might. We'll dehumanise and hate them send in the troops to decimate them As in the name of the Nation all it stands for is betrayed And you may well prefer abstention but I feel compelled to mention You'd do well to pay attention when the Boys are on Parade. Merely the whim or intuition of an elected politician Makes a melee without conditions as the monster quits the cage Its a machine that knows no quarter dealing death and sowing slaughter Raping mothers, wives and daughters in an all consuming rage We may well decide we need it and we'll pay to arm and feed it But can you tell me who will lead it when the decisions must be made And you may well prefer abstention but I feel compelled to mention You'd do well to pay attention when the Boys are on Parade. Some will wonder what's to fear and say there is no danger here But there has never been a year when Soldiers haven't been at war And the eternal executions and the bloody revolutions And the ultimate solutions too have all been seen before. And there's always someone scheming and sometimes at night when dreaming In the distance I hear screaming and in my heart I feel afraid And you may well prefer abstention but I feel compelled to mention You'd do well to pay attention when the Boys are on Parade. |
30 Mar 10 - 05:56 AM (#2875416) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: John MacKenzie "Toora loora loora loo They're looking for monkeys up in the zoo and if I had a face like you I'd join the British Army." My son John - Tom Paxton Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye Side of a Hill - Paul Simon Mrs McGrath Death Come Easy - Harvey Andrews The Kerry Recruit I could go on. |
30 Mar 10 - 05:57 AM (#2875417) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: John MacKenzie And of course, I forgot. Bloody Orkney !! |
30 Mar 10 - 06:03 AM (#2875419) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Amergin Eric Bogle's Soldier, Soldier |
30 Mar 10 - 10:37 AM (#2875602) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Mark Ross TROOPERS LAMENT Utah Phillips I sailed from Seattle far away from friends and home, Far across the blue Pacific to the Land of Morning Calm, Here's your helmet and your rifle, and your prophylactics too, And as sure as I'm your captain we will make a man of you. Oh the 105's were pounding and their thunder shook the night, I asked my bold commander who am I here to fight, "It's the slopes, and the slants, the gooks and chinks," said he, And I wondered if their captain ever said the same as me. I have seen the mountain winter where the air was cold and still, But, oh, that frozen Chosan it was a living hell, With the fever and the jaundice and a hundred kinds of mold, We were slaughtered in our mummy bags by bayonets and cold. And everywhere I traveled from the camps at Kummaree(?), The Yungsan reservation and the camps at Moonsamee(?), The golden plains of Inchon, my boots rotting on my feet, All I heard were starving babies while their mothers walked the street. We bought cameras, we bought watches, we bought whores and we bought booze, With the little barefoot beggars bending down to shine our shoes, We gave them back our candy, and to answer our desire, We gave them round eyed babies who died outside the wire. I got off in Seattle and climbed on board a train, I rode it through the mountains with a fever in my brain, I could find no reason to remain here anymore, There was no trace around me of the life I'd lived before. Where's the pride in country if it robs a man of will, And where's the pride in manhood if a man will rape and kill, And where's the pride in killing if the dead will rise again, Ah, but there's a pride in knowing there's an enemy within. So listen all you troopers here's a lesson you should know, From an older brown shoe soldier who marched off long ago, They will use your pride and passion for to settle all their fights, Keep yor pride in your trousers and the captain in your sights. Utah wrote this to express his feelings about his service in Korea, which he had trouble talking about. specifically, it was for his son who had just joined the Marines. He used a tune that he said he'd heard Louis Killen sing.. Anyone out there know which ballad this was from? Mark Ross |
30 Mar 10 - 01:22 PM (#2875759) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Murray MacLeod @ Sugwash, re "When the Boys are on Parade", I have never heard the song sung without the missing verse, why would you think Marcus Turner didn't write the missing verse right from the start ? Not being confrontational, just enquiring, maybe it was in fact a later addition. It's a great song, it's a shame the only version on Youtube appears to be here. Not a bad version, but about a fifth lower than I sing it, and probably an octave below Andy Irvine. |
30 Mar 10 - 02:14 PM (#2875801) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Sugwash @Murray MacLeod "I have never heard the song sung without the missing verse, why would you think Marcus Turner didn't write the missing verse right from the start ?" If I was a betting man, then yes, I would say that Marcus Turner did write the verse missing from the lyrics above. I've only heard Andy Irvine singing the song and he includes the verse, but when I looked up the lyrics on Andy's website, the last verse [in AI's version] wasn't there so, in the interests of academic rigour, I didn't dare wrongly attribute it, hence the uncertainty. It's a great song though. All the best Murray Andy |
30 Mar 10 - 03:39 PM (#2875879) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: GUEST,Peadar (formerly) of Portsmouth Jez Lowe wrote a fine song in this vein called "Old Bones" ... worthy of inclusion |
31 Mar 10 - 08:38 AM (#2876418) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: GUEST,Neil D You're in the army now You're not behind a plow You'll never get rich You son of a bitch You're in the army now |
31 Mar 10 - 08:46 AM (#2876423) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Jim Carroll We used to sing; You're in the army now, You used to ride a cow. You tickled its bum to make it run, You're in the army now. Jim Carroll |
31 Mar 10 - 06:41 PM (#2876904) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Allan C. The song, LE DÉSERTEUR impressed me so much that I nearly decided to learn French well enough to do it justice. There was an excellent discussion of it in a thread about a translated version called, The Letter. |
31 Mar 10 - 07:41 PM (#2876957) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: oldhippie Going back to the Vietnam era, I think this one qualifies. Last Foxhole lyrics by Red Sovine (Oh Lord let it be the last foxhole) He lived by my side on an Island in the sea A place called Okeinawa and just like me He was fighting in the army against Japan Our home was a foxhole made of clay blood and sand (The last foxhole oh the last foxhole oh Lord let it be the last foxhole) Soon the war was over and we went our seperate ways He went home to Brooklyn but in the army I chose to stay Now he often wrote me the letters and told me about his fears When his son became a man would he had to live in (The last foxhole oh the last foxhole oh Lord let it be the last foxhole) Then came Korea they sent my company And that same Brooklyn boy right back with me But I left him there in the grave deep and cold They just covered him up in his last foxhole (The last foxhole oh the last foxhole oh Lord let it be the last foxhole) Well the years went by now here I am in another foxhole in VietNam And there's a boy from Brooklyn behind a gun They couldn't send his daddy so they sent his son (Oh the last foxhole oh the last foxhole oh Lord let it be the last foxhole) |
01 Apr 10 - 11:18 AM (#2877410) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: buddhuu "I'm Asking You Sergeant, Where's Mine?" by Billy Connolly? This one is sort of in no man's land, if you'll pardon use of the term. As well as resentment of the misleading recruitment ploys used to hook him, the singer/soldier seems to imply condemnation of his own poor judgment in joining up (as contrasted with that of his wiser pacifist brother in Glagow who "Is nae [as] saft"). Songs lamenting the soldier as victim of the war machine are certainly easier to find than songs that actually single the soldier himself out and hold him personally responsible. Interesting thread. |
01 Apr 10 - 11:59 AM (#2877433) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: GUEST West deep down in the big muddy - Pete Seeger |
01 Apr 10 - 12:00 PM (#2877435) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: GUEST oops... WAIST deep in the big muddy, sorry |
01 Apr 10 - 12:43 PM (#2877458) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: DonMeixner I always wait awhile on threads like this. The OP asks his question and is gone never to defend,explain, or modify the question. I read this as songs about military service where the person/people in the song are at fault or in need of criticism. Don |
01 Apr 10 - 05:02 PM (#2877647) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: GUEST,guest.. Albert Song for Harry Farr is a song about the execution of Private Harry Farr on the Western Front in 1916.It was written by Chris Hastings and Huw Pudner. |
02 Apr 10 - 04:46 PM (#2878373) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: olddude band played waltzing matilda |
02 Apr 10 - 08:21 PM (#2878474) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: GUEST,bankley "Gays in the Military" Jim Page... google him... he's great |
02 Apr 10 - 08:38 PM (#2878485) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: dick greenhaus The Southern Girl's Reply is critical of, at least, one soldier. |
02 Apr 10 - 09:22 PM (#2878504) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Uncle_DaveO Mark Ross misquoted a line from Utah Phillips' Troopers' Lament, as follows: "And I wondered if their captain ever said the same as me." You either mistyped or you mistook the meaning of the line, Mark. That should be "And I wondered if their captain ever said the same of me." Meaning "about me". Dave Oesterreich |
02 Apr 10 - 11:45 PM (#2878547) Subject: RE: Songs Critical of Military Service From: Mark Ross Sorry about that Dave. As Utah used to say, "When your memory goes forget it!" Mark Ross |