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03 May 10 - 05:13 PM (#2899345) Subject: BS: Cubital/Carpel Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu Numbness and pain in the little and ring finger which may extend up the outer side of the forearm. I went to You Tube and tried some of the suggestions. Went to physio for my back last week and buddy says he saw the cubital vieos and said the stretching and exercises seldom help. The damage has been done. But, the exercise glove the vids are trying to promote is making someone a lot of coin. However, on a health website, I read that one can stop further damage and 80% of peeps get some relief by keping the elbow from bending during sleep and work tasks. This can be accomplished at night by wearing a splint or by wrapping the arm in a pig blanket or by tying the wrist to ones night clothes. In about a month, this usually can be discontinued as the pattern for curling one's arm is negated or lessened. I tried sleepng in sweat pants and putting my hand in a pocket... works great until I fall asleep. When I wake up, my elbow is fully bent and the numbness is worse. I went on a quest for a splint. Nope. I figured the pig blanket might cause a circulation problem. So, I tried sommat. I folded up a large hand towel, placed it in the crook of my arm and wrapped it with Elastoplast (a "stretchy" wrap) to hold the towel in place. Works a treat. My elbow can't bend over 90 degrees. I am gonna try to wear it 24h/7. Anybody else got any suggestions? |
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03 May 10 - 05:26 PM (#2899353) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Ebbie Hmmmm. What I read is that it is the wrist, not the elbow, that is the culprit, that if you can keep the wrist straight in the night it has a positive effect. But you are saying that keeping the elbow straight does the same thing? In the past I've had terrible problems with it, i.e. up by 2:00 am with pain radiating up into the shoulder, and not able to sleep the rest of the night. Either James Joyce or Norman Mailer wrote about the ailment, whether or not they realized what they were saying. He- which ever one it was - wrote that the soldiers that were building a fence were up by midnight 'windmilling' their arms so they could go back to sleep. |
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03 May 10 - 05:56 PM (#2899374) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu http://www.eatonhand.com/hw/hw007.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6cIcuLnYrc |
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03 May 10 - 05:58 PM (#2899375) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu You got any links Ebbie? |
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03 May 10 - 06:22 PM (#2899388) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa I tried straight/bent, rest/use, hot/cold..didn't find anything that seemed to make much difference. The only thing that seemed fairly consistent for relief was a neuralgia pill. Did you check in with a neurologist, gnu? I am fairly tough about pain, but the weakness and wasting freak me out (plus, I hate watching my hand lose guitar skill) Next week, I have an appt with a neurosurgeon and I hope he is willing to slip my nerve back in the groove. |
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03 May 10 - 06:33 PM (#2899398) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu Melissa.... I have a referral... but, I have Canuck health care... 11.5 months for and ENT referral (June 1)... still no word on the the eye doc referral for months now... nothing on a booking for an "urgent" ultrasound after 6 weeks.... Our "free" heath care is great if you are not sick or near death. Other than that, don't get sick in New Brunswick, Canada. |
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03 May 10 - 07:11 PM (#2899417) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa When you get in to the dr, will that mean you can step right into a series of tests/specialists/diagnosis, or will there be a bunch of waiting for that process too? I bought a cheesy little elbow brace and although the straps seemed to squeeze something in my arm above my elbow, the heat felt good. On me, heat was better than cold. Two different drs gave me scrips for naprosen..that seems to be the favored standard med. The sleeping position I had the best luck with was with my hand flat on the top of my leg..elbow relaxed, straightish. My neurologist told me to sleep with good posture. I went through a series of drs before ending up getting to see the ones that are practical for this. I asked every doctor about the chances of permanent damage (and how to avoid it) By the time I was seeing specialists, they seemed to agree that I should go ahead and use my hand/arm. Some said I should be careful not to fatigue it, some said to use it but stop when it started to hurt. The most recent one said I could go ahead and use it..no restrictions. |
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03 May 10 - 07:23 PM (#2899424) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: bobad I know what Red Green would recommend - you guessed it - DUCT TAPE! |
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03 May 10 - 07:42 PM (#2899442) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Ebbie Link to what, gnu? The novel? Or? |
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03 May 10 - 07:57 PM (#2899450) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Bill D This all depends on where the problem originates. I had pain and numbness in my arm that turned out to be caused by a neck problem...specifically, a small bone spur in the 3rd cervical vertebrae which was pressing on the nerve that runs down the arm. The ultimate treatment was a shot of cortisone into the vertebrae to reduce the swelling, then careful control of how I sit, turn my head, bend my arm when sleeping...etc. I seem to have as a result, a small permanent numbness in the tip of my left index finger...a nuisance, but seems to not be getting worse. Being careful how I sit and move to avoid inflaming my neck has now become 2nd nature....even though I almost never 'felt' the problem in my neck proper. Do explore various reasons for the origin of the problem, and whenever you DO get to a doctor...hopefully an orthopedist... ask about this..(it took an MRI to pinpont my problem, and I still carry the films whenever I see a new doctor.) |
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04 May 10 - 03:17 AM (#2899614) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: The Fooles Troupe "get some relief by keeping the elbow from bending during sleep and work tasks." There was a famous pianist who thought that he would splint his fingers to keep them in shape. When he removed them, his fingers had stiffened. This is not good advice, joints need to be free to move, or they stiffen up. |
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04 May 10 - 05:52 AM (#2899658) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu Ebbie... I meant links you may have found if you were looking for info on the condition. Well, I won't be using the towel/wrap any more. Woke at 2AM to find ALL five fingers numb. Took it off and it was back to where it was in a half hour. |
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04 May 10 - 06:01 AM (#2899665) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: maeve Any of this make sense, gnu? Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy m |
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04 May 10 - 06:12 AM (#2899669) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu That was the first one I looked at m... not according to my phisio guy. |
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04 May 10 - 06:13 AM (#2899670) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: maeve Good to know, g. I'll keep looking. |
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04 May 10 - 12:32 PM (#2899867) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: open mike i did know someone who slept with a wrist brace on to prevent his hands curling up at night. I have had numbness in my hand, and MRI determined it to be cervical (neck) nerve problem. I was cautioned not to get a "neck adjustment" from a chiropractor, or other well-meaning person. How exactly can one control thier posture while asleep? YOur conscious mind is not calling the shots if you are sleeping. |
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04 May 10 - 12:46 PM (#2899877) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa my mri showed a spur..emg didn't show much of anything. I am the third guitar player in my area with the same symptoms. Is this something that happens to guitarists, or is my area flukey? |
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04 May 10 - 01:18 PM (#2899895) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: GUEST,leeneia Melissa, are you playing with a flat pick? I read a book by a doctor about repetitive stress injury, and he specifically mentioned flat picks as a source of hand injury. I haven't read anything about this, but I wonder. Sometimes I see a person playing a guitar (or similar)with the pinky anchored to its top. I tried that for about three seconds, and it made my hand so tense and uncomfortable that I vowed never to do it again. I wonder if people who do that wind up with hand troubles after a while. |
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04 May 10 - 01:37 PM (#2899910) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa Leeneia, Yep, I use a flat pick..but I don't anchor my pinky. My right forearm gets crampy if I try that. All three of us here have the symptoms in our left arm, so in this case, it probably doesn't have much to do with our picks. Of the three, one always uses a strap..one sometimes does..and I never do. One has played longer than me and one started fairly recently. |
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04 May 10 - 02:46 PM (#2899968) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa gnu, if it really is your ulnar nerve flaking out, you might be able to sleep/wake happier if you make sure the elbow part of your arm will keep a consistent temperature (a long sleeve..or maybe a loose sock with the foot cut out) and nest yourself in bed with the funnybone part of your elbow NOT pressed against anything. |
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04 May 10 - 02:52 PM (#2899975) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu I'll try just about anything. Thanks all. |
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04 May 10 - 03:04 PM (#2899982) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa It's a miserable thing, gnu. I hope you can find some ways to keep it not-unbearable while you're waiting to get tended. |
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04 May 10 - 04:59 PM (#2900045) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Bill D "How exactly can one control thier posture while asleep? " I have worked on getting to sleep in a posture which I know is safe...usually on my side....preferably right side. I use 2-3 extra pillows to cushion my arms and/or head in various positions. I sometimes wake at night, and use the opportunity to readjust things. Now & then I DO manage to sleep for awhile in an awkward position, but one of the major issues is how long the pressure on my neck is 'wrong'....the longer the area around the nerve is turned wrong, the more inflammation. A long car drive can give me some irritation that can take a couple days to recover from, but I haven't had really bad pains in a couple of years. I'm fortunate that I WAS able to get a specific diagnosis so that I can cope.....most of the time. (here I sit, slouched in my desk chair, looking lazy and with bad posture...but it works..) |
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05 May 10 - 05:40 AM (#2900421) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: JohnInKansas I can't really comment on the Syndrome; but the symptoms are familiar. My observation has been that in my case numbness most likely is due to a prolonged reduction of circulation from holding the elbow bent at a sharp angle for a long time. The tunnel where the main artery goes past the elbow appears to be subject to a degree of compression and "collapse" when the elbow is held bent for too long a time. In my case the degree of bending (especially at the elbow) required to produce symptoms may be related to how tissues (read that as how the fat) is distributed, as I've observed the symptoms more frequently when I was at "higher body mass" than during leaner times. This correlation is somewhat uncertain though, since my periods of high BM have usually also correlated with changes in the kinds of work I was doing and associated prolonged postures required by related tasks. Similar symptoms, in my case, sometimes also are the result of resting a hand/wrist on the edge of a desk so that the vaguely similar "tunnel" where the artery passes through the wrist is restricted. In my case, regardless of which "injury" - elbow or wrist - is responsible, the numbness is probably due to restriction of blood circulation. Both numbness and a degree of pain result from and in tissues deprived of fresh arterial blood. I happen to have an incredibly marginal circulatory system due to inherited factors (thanks Dad!), additionally deteriorated due to "mature" age; but the numbness described here has been something I've been able to reproduce at will since adolescence. Since the same "tunnels" that provide routes for the arteries also, generally, are the same ones, or closely adjacent to the ones, where major nerves "go through the joints" it's quite possible that similar symptoms could be observed from blockage of circulation as from constrictive pressure (a pinch) on the nerves. The symptoms described could be the result of either arterial blockage (compression by adjacent tissues) or nerve damage. Of course, as previously noted, a pinched nerve in a remote place (like the neck) can produce pain in unexpected places (like the fingers). I'm not sure whether it's feasible, or necessary, to determine which cause - arteries or nerves - is producing the pain, at least where it's caused in the elbow or wrist tunnels; although straightening things out and restoring blood circulation seems more likely to result in "healing" than relieving a pinch on a nerve. Most tissues can recover from brief insult, even if repeated fairly regularly; but nerves are generally less "repairable" once damaged than the more ordinary tissues such as muscles and tendons. The likelihood of a permanent recovery may depend whether the numbness is from circulatory or nerve insult - and it's reasonable to believe that in some cases both causes could be operable. In my case, the symptoms are generally fairly easily relieved by avoiding joint positions and/or external pressures that I've observed as causes, although complete recovery often takes a few days if I've failed to respond quickly to the onset of symptoms. The longer it has lasted, the longer it lasts after "treatment" is begun. Since I haven't attempted to relate my "symptoms" to any known/named "syndrome" this may be just unrelated babble; but the symptoms seem similar enough that someone "suffering from something with a name" may be able to relate my observations to what's going on in their own case. John |
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05 May 10 - 06:04 AM (#2900432) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: katlaughing I had horrible pain radiating down my pinky and half of my ring finger, the half closest to the pinky. Went through all kinds of occupational testing and it was determined I was hitting my "funny" bone on the outside of my elbow without noticing it and, because the ulnar nerve was very close to the surface, I'd been aggravating it. The treatment was soft, padded elbow protectors, the same as they use for heels. Kind of like THESE. I've got all kinds of pinched whatevers in my neck and passing down through my arms. When I was 17, they said it was arthritis. Many years later, getting the above diagnosis was like a godsend. Watching my elbow and making sure it is cushioned has worked really well. Also, I cannot keep it bent for long and I am on the telephone a lot, so I always have a headset I use keeping my hands free and my elbow from getting sore. I was surprised at just how often I was bumping my elbows when I started wearing the pads. As to the hand and cramping...my doc said most people naturally sleep with their hands kind of tucked up under their chins. He recommended using Cock Up Splints which I did use for a short time. They really help. I also use them whenever my wrists get tired and carpel tunnel shows up for a short time. If I use the splints for a day or two it settles right down. I cannot recommend the elbow pads strongly enough, gnu. I think you'd be surprised. kat |
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05 May 10 - 07:15 AM (#2900465) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: McGrath of Harlow Curiosity drift: What is a "pig blanket"? I can't imagine many pigs would really be too keen on lying tucked up in bed. |
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05 May 10 - 08:24 AM (#2900494) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: maeve McGrath- The phrase is "like a pig in a blanket", referring to the suggestion to wrap a towel or other soft fabric around the arm at the elbow to cushion it. maeve |
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05 May 10 - 10:00 AM (#2900534) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: McGrath of Harlow Oh - a recipe I see rather like toad in the hole... |
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05 May 10 - 02:24 PM (#2900699) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu Indeed... wrap a towel around the arm and pin or tape it so that the elbow can't bend over 90 while sleeping. Kat... I got a splint but couldn't find the elbow jobbie... does the elbow jobbie have a smallish pad to cover the ulnar nerve or it it a lrger pad that covers the elbow area? Do you wear the splint all day? at night? |
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05 May 10 - 03:32 PM (#2900748) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: katlaughing It's not really a splint at all; I could still bend my elbow. The ones I had, had a smallish pad which cradled the elbow right where the ulnar nerve runs. I generally wore them all day because of the protection. I just didn't realize how much I was banging that part of my elbow throughout the day until I started wearing them. They pulled on like a sock and had ribbed edges top and bottom. I wore those ones out and when I went looking for more, pre-internet, all I could find were larger ones which didn't have near as much good padding and were huge, to boot. I used to cover the others with my sleeves; no way could I do that with the later ones. Also, the later ones were flat until pulled on, so not much shape to them. I think the ones i found for your link are more like the old ones I had which worked so well. Good luck! |
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05 May 10 - 05:18 PM (#2900818) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu Kat... do you wear the splint at night? |
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05 May 10 - 09:53 PM (#2900996) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: katlaughing I don't wear any devices at night unless I feel an injury; then, it's usually one of the cock-up hand splints. I don't usually have to wear them for more than a night or two or even during the daytime. I do a lot of pressure point massage to alleviate the congestion which causes the pain, too. I am a really light sleeper, as in almost always slightly aware of position as I cannot stay in one position for long, so I am very careful of how I stretch out my arms and where I rest my hands. I use a wedge pillow with a memory foam pillow on top of it for my head and neck; sleep on my side, right, mostly. Have a body pillow up against my back, another against my belly and tucked between my knees and feet which helps to keep my lower back in alignment. My hands rest one on top of my hip or draped slightly over my belly onto the pillow whilst the other is almost straight down along my front with my hand cushioned by some of the bedclothes bunched up or a wheat husk pillow I have that lumps up into some great shapes. Rog sleeps with two old lumpy pillows way over on the very edge of the bed and moves accordingly when I start scrunching things around.:-) I'd just spoon up against him, but he is like a furnace and I definitely cannot sleep when I get too warm!**bg** (My girlfriend who went camping with me one time said I was just like a cat, turning, kneading, turning, etc. until finally settling down, then doing it all over.) Sometimes, I make a small bunched ball of the bedclothes or small towel and placed my hand down on it in the "neutral" position they would be in if in the splints and that is enough to keep them comfy.(So, it's like a small ball in the palm of my hand.) Hope that helps. |
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06 May 10 - 01:57 PM (#2901405) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu Thanks for taking the time to help me out. |
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06 May 10 - 03:28 PM (#2901463) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: katlaughing No problem. I hope it does help. Uncooked rice works well in an old sock tied off at the end, too. |
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14 May 10 - 08:49 PM (#2907244) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu refresh.... melissa... any news? |
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14 May 10 - 09:02 PM (#2907250) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa When I got to the neurosurgeon, I learned that it's common for folks to have spurs and that my problem can probably be fixed with surgery on my elbow. The way I understand it, ulnar nerve has sort of a groove/tunnel between the bumpy bones in our elbows. The top of that tunnel thing is a clumpy ligament layer. With repetitive use, the nerve can get stretched..ligament layer can fluff up..and the tunnel gets too thin for the nerve to have as much space as it needs. I don't have weird computer arm-posture and I don't lean on my elbows much. Mine is probably from guitar or throwing tomahawks. I'm scheduled for surgery Monday. He will open my arm and snip the tissue/ligament to relieve pressure on the nerve. While he's in there, he may find that he needs to take off a little bit of my 'funnybone' bone. I am really looking forward to getting this tended so I can get to work on Recuperating instead of being so dang delicate! How is yours doing, gnu? |
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14 May 10 - 09:18 PM (#2907259) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu I am still waiting on the docs... I am in Canada so it may take a year or more to see anyone. In the meantime, I do the exercises on the You Tube videos, which I am told by a physio are useless. |
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14 May 10 - 09:36 PM (#2907269) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa my hand is wasting along the side between the base of my little finger and my wrist..and in the hollow between my forefinger/thumb. Both places were commented on as being fairly standard. If you have found an exercise that can keep those muscles from withering too much, they might be worth doing. As soon as I could stand to get back to it, I played my guitar as much as I could handle and made sure I remembered to stretch all those fingers in every direction they can go. For a while, my hand was too weak to hold anything..but that didn't last. I went through a rough couple weeks where it constantly felt like I had just banged my funnybone but that misery faded on its own. When I finally got to doctors that seem interested in me getting better, they have all agreed that I should keep using it but not overdo. I figured it was a lot easier to try keeping as much strength as I could than to try building strength from scratch. I wish I had thought to look for exercises on youtube! |
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18 May 10 - 10:45 AM (#2909204) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa Done. It's possibly the easiest thread I've seen mentioned in a thread. |
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18 May 10 - 01:35 PM (#2909308) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: gnu Can't wait to wear my splint... I took 1/2" by 3/4" strip of skin off my forearm just before I bought the splint and didn't want to take the chance of getting blood on the splint. The scab is just starting to come off. |
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18 May 10 - 01:47 PM (#2909320) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa When I was a kid, surgery always meant that there would be a Surgery Prize on the end of the bed when we woke in our room. Those were the neatest prizes ever. I was surprised to find a prize on my bed yesterday when I was back in the holding cell..a sling. That splint might feel really good to you! |
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16 Jun 10 - 01:57 AM (#2928776) Subject: RE: BS: Cubital Tunnel Syndrome therapy From: Melissa The doctor patted me on the head and sent me on my way. Recovery is kind of slow but I'm getting strength/dexterity back and don't hurt much at all anymore. |