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17 Aug 99 - 12:48 PM (#105863) Subject: Period Songs From: BeauDangles Hey Folks, I am involved in historical re-enactments with the Society for Creative Anachronism. I am not hugely active presently, although I do play for our dances and occasionally play at our "Bardic Circles." I have been struggling lately with the perennial dilemma of what songs to lead people in. I am not a huge fan of Filk songs. My preference is for folkey stuff, but authenticity nazi's get upset about that sometimes because they don't always fall within our period (mid 1600's and earlier). Ironically, sometimes they have no problem at all with silly songs about modern SCA events sung to the tune of House of the Rising Sun or the Theme to Gilligans Island! I know you can't please all of the people all of the time, but I would like to find some acceptably period songs that are fun to sing and you don't need a degree in music to teach or learn them. My compromise of late has been to pick songs that _sound_ as if they could have been period and avoid references to things that are grossly out of period. Most of the sources I have found only list lyrics and no melodies or chord charts. Obviously all three would be very helpful. Any suggestions on where I can go to start my search? Beau |
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17 Aug 99 - 12:58 PM (#105867) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: T in Oklahoma I've refreshed the Medieval Music??? thread. It contains a few references that might be helpful to you. |
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17 Aug 99 - 01:17 PM (#105874) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: MMario beau - check out "Cantoria" http://www.chivalry.com/cantaria/ MMario |
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17 Aug 99 - 01:39 PM (#105881) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Alice Bruce O.'s website should be helpful to you. Old and Rare |
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17 Aug 99 - 01:43 PM (#105883) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: BeauDangles Wow, Talk about fast service! Thanks guys! Beau |
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17 Aug 99 - 04:04 PM (#105932) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Melodeon Oops!! silly me, I thought this was a "girlie" thread sbout PMT Sorry. Melodeon |
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18 Aug 99 - 03:06 AM (#106093) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: alison Hahaha... I'm with you melodeon.... I came in here hoping to find songs along the lines of "I want to eat chocolate, and I'll stab anyone who tries to stop me."*grin* slainte alison |
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18 Aug 99 - 03:19 AM (#106095) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: KingBrilliant Me too. |
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18 Aug 99 - 10:07 AM (#106137) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: catspaw49 We are all kinda' sick ain't we??? And before I get any wisecracks about "What does a guy know about this?"....believe me, we know plenty. Anyway, I'm overjoyed to find that I wasn't the only one perverse enough to see the "alternate" meaning here.
What did the Vampire say to the schoolmarm? Spaw |
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18 Aug 99 - 10:13 AM (#106140) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Roger the zimmer and I hope you all appreciate my self-restraint! |
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18 Aug 99 - 10:17 AM (#106143) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Alice You know, for the amount of significance this has in every woman's life, it is amazing that we don't have more songs about periods. It is a sign, I guess, of just how taboo the subject is. I wonder how many cultures have songs about it that women sing? Amazing for such an important part of the reproductive process that we keep it so taboo. Hey, here is a sexist thought... if men had to bleed copious amounts from you-know-where about every 28 days in order for the human race to continue, would we have folk songs about it? |
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18 Aug 99 - 10:34 AM (#106149) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Trashman Probably. There'd be a lot more public holidays, too. And can you imagine all those annoying ads with guys frolicking on the beach? Shudder to think. |
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18 Aug 99 - 10:42 AM (#106151) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Pete Peterson I think it was Gloria Steinem who said "if men had periods, menstruation would be a holy sacrement of the Church" |
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18 Aug 99 - 11:18 AM (#106176) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: catspaw49 Being male, I can categorically state you're ALL WRONG!!! Considering the way most of us (males) handle any form of sickness, even a hangnail, it is inconceivable (literally) that there would be a human race by this point in time. The idea of "copious bleeding and pain" every 28 days, not to mention childbirth, would have made the species extinct long ago. Spaw |
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18 Aug 99 - 10:19 PM (#106379) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: alison I did hear a woman sing a song about periods in a folk club... you could see the blokes trying to slink down in their chairs... wish I could remember some of the words.. slainte alison |
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18 Aug 99 - 11:24 PM (#106399) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: But think of all the possibilities this thread title adds to the thread, "Thread Name Game!" |
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19 Aug 99 - 02:33 AM (#106435) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: KingBriliant Aha. Period songs. Perhaps this explains all those dreary and miserable girly-singer-songwriter-navel-songs. They're all on the blob. Kris |
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19 Aug 99 - 08:31 AM (#106471) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Pelrad Women all over the world and in virtually every culture are not talking about this; it is taboo or sacred in every culture I've studied. I wonder if there are sacremental songs about it in those cultures where it is a sign of women's power rather than a curse. |
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19 Aug 99 - 10:27 AM (#106513) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Alice hmmm ... Pelrad I don't think that all the motivation is that women won't talk about it, we certainly talk among ourselves, but rather that men don't want to hear about it. |
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19 Aug 99 - 10:45 AM (#106519) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: BeauDangles What was that line from South Park- The Movie? "I don't trust anything that bleeds for four days and doesn't die!" Mr.B |
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19 Aug 99 - 10:46 AM (#106521) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: MMario I certainly heard more then I cared to about the subject when i was growing up....but I DID have five sisters. MMario |
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19 Aug 99 - 11:58 AM (#106551) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Jack (who is called Jack) I don't want a pickle, Just wanna get over my menstral-sickle And I don't don't want to tickle, not while I'm having my menstral-sickle And lest you want to die Don't bug me during my menstral cy---cle. (Sorry Arlo) But seriously folks, There's some groups that play stuff that would sound good at SCA events and Renaissance Fairs. Look up Owain Fyfe and the New World Renaissance Band. Pretty good, even if most of it isn't in english. |
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19 Aug 99 - 12:22 PM (#106559) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: MMario Oddly enough because they DO play a lot of renaissance faires... and there are many many others...*grin* almost all my cd's and tapes.
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19 Aug 99 - 04:42 PM (#106609) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Rosebrook Well, we all know 'Only Women Bleed'! ducking, Rose |
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19 Aug 99 - 06:56 PM (#106643) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Pelrad From Raising Arizona: Prison Psychologist to large, mean-looking inmate: So, why do you say you feel "trapped" in a man's body? Inmate, in deep bass tones: Well, sometimes I get the menstrual cramps REAL bad." |
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19 Aug 99 - 07:21 PM (#106654) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: catspaw49 |
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19 Aug 99 - 09:08 PM (#106676) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Bill D I avoided this thread for a couple of days, because I KNEW what I'd find..*grin* ..I was right... I suspect there could be several doctoral theses written about the mythology/psychology of menstruation in human literature/folklore..(probably already are.)..Since a number of cultures imbue the subject with great significance, both positive & negative, it is hard to grow up with a neutral, matter of fact attutude about it. The great collector of erotic literature, limericks, and jokes, G. Legman, said that his very favorite joke was on the subject, and he published a number of them in his books... one example..'the class was studying punctuation, the teacher listed the major forms, then asked for a volunteer to come up and demonstrate one and tell why it was important. The famous 'Little Johnny' came up and put a dot on the blackboard. "What's that, Johnny".."That's a period, teacher."..."And why is it important?"..."Ummm...I'm not 'real' sure, teacher, but it must be. My sister said she was missing a couple, and my dad about had a heart attack!" |
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19 Aug 99 - 11:57 PM (#106717) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: T in Oklahoma BD: Here's one, in abc format. X: 1 T: This Endris Night C: Medieval English Melody - British Museum Royal App. 58 folio 52b M: 3/2 K: F L: 1/2 F | A2 B | c2 e | e d2 | c2 c | f2 e | d>c d | B A A | d>d d | c2 F | c B B | A2 A | c2 A | B G2 | (F2 F) || |
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20 Aug 99 - 10:34 PM (#107063) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Bill D well, gee.'T', that was a funny, tinkly little thing..*grin*..how did you EVER find it? |
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09 Oct 99 - 12:37 PM (#122298) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) Bill D: It came from an old book. Here's another, from another old book: X:1 T:En ce premier jour de Mai--Source: Bib Nat. fr. 9346, 15th century M:2/2 Q:1/2=60 K:C D4A4|G4c4|c2 (BA) B4|A8|G6G2|F4A4|A2G3(FED)|E4D4:| D4F4|E4G4|G6F2|E4D4|D4A4|A4A4|G4F4|E8|D4A4|G4c4|c6c2| B4A4|z2A2G4|F4E4|D2G4F2|E4D4|| |
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09 Oct 99 - 01:33 PM (#122310) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Okiemockbird Try, try again. This time I think I'll get it. T.
X:1 |
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09 Oct 99 - 02:35 PM (#122316) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Little Neophyte T in Oklahoma or Okiemockbird? I wanted to send you a message in personal mail but I keep coming up with 'no match' for your name. Why is this? Little Neo |
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09 Oct 99 - 04:43 PM (#122329) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) neo: My original designation was T in Oklahoma. I'm introducing to an alternative designation, Okiemockbird. In my natural habitat, which is north of 40 degrees north latitude and east of eighty degrees west longitude, there were no mockingbirds at the time I was growing up (though there may be now.) One compensation of living in Oklahoma is that we have mockingbirds everywhere. I consider her to be one of the lovliest of fowls, so I chose her to base my new designation on. I'm not an official member of the Mudcat, so there won't be an address on file for me. T. |
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09 Oct 99 - 05:43 PM (#122336) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Little Neophyte Hi Mockingbird. I was looking at the Medieval Music??? Thread and came upon your contributions to this thread. I am learning the banjo and tend to create my own music of which most seems to sound Medieval/Rennaisancish. Rick Fielding recently posted a thread to try and help me 'Any groups of Melodic Open Back Banjo' but it didn't seem to offer what I'm looking for. I will look up the titles you suggested, but knowing what I am doing, do you have any other suggestions of music from this time period I should listen to? Little Neo |
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09 Oct 99 - 08:43 PM (#122361) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: T in Oklahoma (a.k.a. Okiemockbird) LittleNeo: Listening to recordings by the performers that were mentioned on the medieval music??? thread should be a fairly good start on the music of the high middle ages, rennaissance, and baroque: Dufay Collective, Baltimore Consort, Waverly Consort, La Nef, the Early Music Consort of London--I think these were all mentioned or alluded to on that thread. One I neglected to mention is Istanpitta. The list could easily grow longer still. Do you read musical notation? abc notation? Bruce O's website has a number of mid-17th century melodies in abc notation. I don't have the URL with me but it occurs in the medieval music??? thread and various other places around the Mudcat. Are you interested in learning actual melodies, or in soaking up the tonality and spirit of the melodies in order to generate your own? or both ? Anyhow, I hope this helps a little. T.
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09 Oct 99 - 09:56 PM (#122380) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Little Neophyte Hi Mockingbird. I have not yet learned musical notations nor abcs. Right now I would like to soak up the tonality and spirit of these melodies and eventually who knows... I will definitely research the titles you have mentioned and will probably be hunting you down again in the future when I evolve. Thanks ever so much for your help. Little Neo |
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09 Oct 99 - 10:09 PM (#122381) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Little Neophyte Hey Mockingbird, It's a magnificent bird and it's beauty lies in it's song. It is also a courageous bird, defending it's nest at all costs. It's also quite a joker, mimicing other birds, cats and even dogs. Nice choice! Neo |
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09 Oct 99 - 11:40 PM (#122397) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) Neo, just to be clear on the point, those were the names of bands--La Nef, Baltimore Consort, EMCL etc.-- not the titles of albums. I think you know this--just making sure. I agree with your evaluation of the mockingbird. I have seen mockingbirds harrass squirrrels and drive off birds larger than themselves. And mockingbirds don't just mimic other birds, they outdo the others with those others' own songs. |
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10 Oct 99 - 10:41 PM (#122600) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: paddymac Jeez, Alison - here I was just beginning to think about letting you into my secret fantasy life, and then you go and expose your chocolate "thing" and accideently "refresh" images of my ex. Ah, well, I'm sure you're a really nice person anyway. |
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29 Dec 99 - 10:03 AM (#155142) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Okiemockbird Refresh. This is another thread whose title was comically misinterpreted. LittleNeo (and others), you might find this site useful. T. |
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29 Dec 99 - 06:30 PM (#155348) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Hollowfox Milord Beaudangles; aha! so there is another folkie SCAdian out there. Your best place to get actual recordings to learn from (my persona doesn't read music, and neither do I) is at the larger events; Pennsic in the midwest, Estrella Wars in the West, the Marketplace at Bursa coming up in Feb., I think, in New Hampshire. Mundanely, get the address for "Still Records After All These Years" out of a copy of Sing Out! magazine, and see if they still have any copies of any of Ed McCurdy's "Dalliance" series of records. Ed did his homework, and they are "late period", but period nonetheless. If you get Paul Clayton's "Merry Muses of Caledonia" album, the Scots personas will love you, even if they are out of period. Granted, these are all bawdy, but they'll go over big at most bardic circles. For busking, daylight performances, and where some might offend, go for Owen Phyfe and/or the Baltimore Consort. As for the other turn that this thread has taken, I don't know about the other ladies, but singing isn't that great a pleasure with aching muscles anywhere, much less the stomach muscles needed for diaphragm control. Have fun with the music. |
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29 Dec 99 - 07:44 PM (#155378) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Little Neophyte Thanks Mockingbird, it is a very helpful site. |
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30 Dec 99 - 12:09 PM (#155683) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Ole Bull With all the jokes flying before this you guys all missed the most singnifcant historical point. Period music originated in the 19th century for the Menstral Show. |
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30 Dec 99 - 12:50 PM (#155695) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: JedMarum interesting thread ... warped humor - but someone claimed we don't have many songs about menstrual periods because the subject is taboo? I suspect the real reason is becasue it is a commonly accepted fact of life ... I don't know many songs about blowing one's nose or moving one's bowels, either. |
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30 Dec 99 - 12:52 PM (#155696) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: JedMarum ooops - I forgot the reason I picked up on this thread. I found a really cool database with midi-files. You can learn so much about music from many eras at this location. I have spent a lot of time there, and saved some wonderful midi files. |
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30 Dec 99 - 11:37 PM (#155955) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: hootowl How about "Blood in the Boardroom", Anni DiFranco? |
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19 Jan 00 - 12:56 PM (#165319) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: GUEST,cookielessOkiemockbird Here is a site that claims to have lots of medieval and renaissance music midi files. T. |
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19 Jan 00 - 03:08 PM (#165377) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: dwditty I once heard a song by a San Franciso group called On the Rag. The only rhyme I remember had something to do with the Japanese Flag. DW |
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19 Jan 00 - 06:14 PM (#165457) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Sorcha Since this somehow got refreshed, I'll add my 2cts. worth. Even tho' I am female, I knwew right away what the title meant...SCAdian mindset, I suppose. I just messaged Beau privately with some more sources, etc. BEWARE THE PERIOD POLICE!! |
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04 May 00 - 02:10 PM (#223030) Subject: Lyr Add: En ce premier jour de Mai From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) Now that may is here, I suppose I should add the words to "En ce premier jour de Mai":
En ce premier jour de Mai
Et quant je me parti d'elle My own rough partial translation: On the first day of May, when the season renews, I go into the greenwood, [something] of beauty. And whenever I leave her, she tells me, Tell my your news. Farewell my beautiful love. I don't fully understand these words. Are the last two lines both spoken by the girl ? Or one by the girl and one by the boy ? (Isn't "belles" feminine plural ? Or not ?) Is the boy some sort of tree-hugger, if he prefers the company of the trees of the wood to that of his girlfriend ? Any help with this translation that others can provide would be greatly appreciated. T. |
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04 May 00 - 04:49 PM (#223116) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: MMario wouldn't it be... I go into the greenwoods to find a thing of beauty
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04 May 00 - 04:59 PM (#223126) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Malcolm Douglas "Congé means "leave" or "holiday"; "la belle" is a term much used in French poetry and song, and doesn't translate comfortably into English. It's used both in the second and third person; "fair maid" is as close a match as I can think of, so "Taking leave of my fair maid", here, I'd say. The last two lines both seem to be spoken by her: "mes belles amours" in indeed plural, but refers here to Love itself rather than the object of it; the word is usually masculine, but is sometimes given a feminine gender and plural form in poetry. Malcolm |
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04 May 00 - 05:21 PM (#223141) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: SINSULL Blood on the Saddle? Sorry. I'll go away now. |
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04 May 00 - 05:22 PM (#223143) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Wavestar Don't worry, Sorcha, I knew exactly what it meant too, but then I'm another SCAdian... and, of course, a bard! I'm still looking for good period bawdy songs, of which there are so many to choose from, pirate songs, of whch several have helpfully been suggested, and good tunes in general... BeauJangles, if you're still out there... We often just use traditional Scots, Irish and English folk songs that don't date themselves, and no one minds... but then, I wouldn't care if they did. We sang an adaptation of The Lion Sleeps Tonight last year, and loved singing it... and the authenticity people were bothered, and I didn't care a bit. Sing what you love - I don't think the traditional folk song has changed that much! It's the court songs that have gone through fashions. -J (Iscah de Merlis, Herald of Caer Caledon, Drachenwald!) |
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04 May 00 - 09:47 PM (#223280) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: MMario not scadian, but I know the reference, I've been arrested by them..."Can you say "the customer is always right?" - even when they are dead wrong....." One of the few times I regretted working a ren-faire is when a self appointed anachro-nark starts ripping something at the faire to shreds verbally, and they are wrong, wrong, wrong! Maybe I shouldn't work there this year, just play... |
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04 May 00 - 09:50 PM (#223283) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) MMario, Malcolm, thanks for the help! T. |
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05 May 00 - 09:37 AM (#223470) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) Speaking of late medieval (c. 1401-1500)/early modern(c. 1501-1600) French chansons, does anyone have accurate source information about Noel Nouvelet ? T. |
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05 May 00 - 10:51 AM (#223507) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: wysiwyg IS this or is this NOT a thread that goes with the female body parts discussions currently going on? Geez, I dunno WHAT to post! What'sa girl to do??? ~S~ |
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05 May 00 - 10:58 AM (#223512) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: Allan C. Confusing thread title, isn't it, Praise. Carly Simon's "Anticipation" came into my mind when I first read it. |
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05 May 00 - 09:12 PM (#223807) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: GUEST Geez! "Breast" songs and now "period" songs. Women rule on Mudcat |
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06 May 00 - 08:56 AM (#223989) Subject: RE: Period Songs From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) A look at the SCA Minstrel Homepage will introduce you to a fascinating world in which the word "period" does not refer primarily to a woman's monthly courses. T. |