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31 Oct 10 - 08:13 AM (#3019905) Subject: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Something for the weekend... Pan's People - From Top of the Pops - A selection of happy memories Happy Innocent Days...Happy Memories...from a time when people were allowed to laugh, smile at, and flirt with each other..and no-one took offence or sued anyone.. In those days it was OK to be feminine, pretty and sweet...Girl Power hadn't arrived, nor the Lager Lout Ladettes.... Anyway, I'm sure the Boysies will enjoy watching the Lassies, even if The Sisterhood won't... (she runs, chuckling, for cover and tucks herself inside a bombproof suitcase fast, before they find her, drag her out and make her watch endless videos of Germaine DreeryGreery...) ;0) |
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31 Oct 10 - 08:38 AM (#3019913) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Raptor Thank you for that! |
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31 Oct 10 - 08:42 AM (#3019914) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: MGM·Lion Bless you, Lizzie. What a delight that was. I used to watch every TotP, tho pop has never really been my thing, just to see Pan's People. What a wonderfully forgotten lot of T's otP; and what a wonderful nostalgia trip. Did you ever notice, BTW, that the name of their choreographer, Flick Colby, always appeared in the credits with odd sort of shadow-lettering so that it looked like Fuck Colby ~~ I used often to wonder if this was deliberate — somebody's idea of a joke or to see what they could get away with — or purely adventitious. Thanks again, Lizzie-me-darling; & lotsa luv from ~Michael~ |
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31 Oct 10 - 09:25 AM (#3019929) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Richard Bridge FFS Lizzie, why do you (and some others) want to conspire to prevent women having sex lives? |
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31 Oct 10 - 10:22 AM (#3019960) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: VirginiaTam Maybe because Stephen Fry (national treasure?) has just announced that women do not like sex. That they use it to get commitment from men. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/oct/31/stephen-fry-sex-women-relationships- I've just lost some respect for him. |
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31 Oct 10 - 11:03 AM (#3019992) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Little Hawk There are some women who most certainly don't like sex and who use it to get committment from men. (I'd say they are a rather small minority these days.) There are other women who like sex and use it to get commitment from men! ;-) More than a few of those. And there are some women who just like sex, period, regardless of the commitment issue. My grandmother was definitely one of those who, in her youth, did not like sex one bit, but used it to get a husband. She explained that to my mother one time when reminiscing about her younger days. The way she put it was, "Well, that's something you have to do to keep a man happy, but of course there's nothing enjoyable about it. You just wait till he's finished." My mother was a bit astonished. Maybe women just don't like having sex with Stephen Fry! ;-D If so, he has drawn an incorrect conclusion as to what's really going on out there. (Yes, I know he's gay...which is far better than being morose, isn't it?....) ******* As for the go-go girl phenomenon, I always thought it was really a silly routine to add to almost any song and could only serve as a pointless distraction from the song itself, but I was a folkie! Folkies took their songs very seriously! ;-D In retrospect, I don't find anything objectionable about go-go girl routines, although they're far better suited to rock or pop than they are to folk material....or classical...depends on the style of music that's being played. I thought the Ike and Tina Turner Revue, for instance, was marvelous with those long-legged gals dancing around, because it suited the music to a "T". ******* |
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31 Oct 10 - 11:13 AM (#3019997) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Emma B I'm tempted to ask how he would know For many years he was famously celibate, claiming disgust at the idea of "rubbing the wet slimy bits" of his body over other people before coming out as homosexual He may be "oddly endearing" as a quirky quiz show chairman and possibly the best Jeeves ever but I think he's possibly the worst authority on female sexuality As for Pans People - surely the worst examples of over literal interpretation of songs and pretty poor dancing and choreography with 'sexy' clothing and suggestive gestures - never quite figured out if it was aimed at the young girls who watched the show as a role models or dirty old men :) As one of the dancers Ruth Pearson said in an interview a few years back "The music, the clothes and the dances all made some of it a bit... bleurgh!" Indeedy! |
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31 Oct 10 - 11:42 AM (#3020012) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Bonzo3legs Terrific video, thanks Lizzie. You are absolutely right. Folks could be gay back then without being queer, and could feel queer without being gay!!! |
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31 Oct 10 - 11:48 AM (#3020015) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Jean(eanjay) I'm laughing at what Stephen Fry said; what a daft thing to say! |
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31 Oct 10 - 11:48 AM (#3020016) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: bubblyrat Well, I and my Royal Navy colleagues certainly enjoyed watching them ,which I suppose made us "dirty old men" at age about 20 or so !! Of course,what we didn't have nearly so much in those more innocent (by today's dubious standards ) days,was the proliferation of "feminists" (whom I shall not even accord the dignity of a capital F ) and other strange "females" telling us all what to do and what to think etc. Oh....Happy Hallowe'en by the way ; tonight's YOUR night !! |
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31 Oct 10 - 12:17 PM (#3020035) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Thanks Liz..that was a hoot! While watching it, I saw this one too....Funny; to see what girls think is 'sexy'....but in reality, they're just guessing! Boy, I could have FUN on this thread!!!! GfS |
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31 Oct 10 - 12:27 PM (#3020041) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: VirginiaTam from Stephen Fry's Twitter page 3 hours ago stephenfry So some fucking paper misquotes a humorous interview I gave, which itself misquoted me and now I'm the Antichrist. I give up. his last post also 3 hours ago Bye bye I am now holding comment until we see more on our Mr. Fry. I never saw Pan's People until a year or so ago on some music documentary about TotP. Can't comment on what I would have thought when they were in their heydey, only that they seem pretty cheesy to me now. |
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31 Oct 10 - 12:46 PM (#3020054) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Bonzo3legs What do you mean cheesy??? Please explain. Of course they would not have appeared in hideous leggings which fat women insist of wearing now and look absolutely daft!!! |
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31 Oct 10 - 12:47 PM (#3020055) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Bonzo3legs "insist on wearing" I meant to type. |
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31 Oct 10 - 12:51 PM (#3020057) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Arthur_itus I always thought that the Can can dancers were much more appealing to watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr6FSiqZuJU |
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31 Oct 10 - 12:51 PM (#3020059) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Emma B Flamebait is a message posted to a public Internet discussion group, such as a forum, newsgroup or mailing list, with the sole intent of provoking an angry response - in this instance the target was obviously those female contributors who have had the temerity to disagree with the OP in previous posts and are referred to as 'The Sisterhood' Although personally I never found Pans people good dancers or even 'pretty and sweet' - well I prefer men myself - there are plenty of examples on you tube of girls dancing (Pans People were women in their 20s I believe) who could be described that way An 'interesting' recent study showed men who scored higher as "hostile sexists" — those who view women as controlling and invaders of male space (as exemplified in remarks like "females" telling us all what to do and what to think etc) — didn't show brain activity that indicates they saw the women in bikinis as humans with thoughts and intentions. Brain scans showed that when straight men looked at pictures of women in bikinis, areas of the brain that normally light up in anticipation of using tools, like spanners and screwdrivers, were activated :) - National Geographic News February 2009 It has been said that Feminism is the radical notion that women are people. "I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a door mat or a prostitute." Rebecca West |
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31 Oct 10 - 01:21 PM (#3020079) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: McGrath of Harlow I imagine the same bits light up for some of us when we think about musical instruments. Hardly surprising really. |
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31 Oct 10 - 01:32 PM (#3020088) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Emma B LOL Kevin - I have wondered about that at times |
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31 Oct 10 - 01:41 PM (#3020096) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Little Hawk Yeah, it was flamebait all right... :-) But no harm in posting the video about Pan's People for those who like it...like my friend Raptor. Emma, I think those dance routines were primarily aimed at young men...the primary buying market for the musical product being sold. Most of the young men I knew at the time would have delighted in watching those girls, because they weren't as seeerious about the music as I was. They were in it strictly for the fun. I was the one with his mind on great social, political, and moral causes...being a true folkie and one schooled in the dialectical and revolutionary teachings of Joan Baez, Buffy Sainte-Marie, and Bob Dylan. I had no time for go-go girls. ;-D |
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31 Oct 10 - 01:42 PM (#3020098) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Little Hawk Oh, by the way... Girls are still girls. |
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31 Oct 10 - 01:47 PM (#3020103) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Nope, it wasn't 'flame baiting' at all, LH. I got into Pan's People over on Facebook, where someone posted something that reminded me of Top of the Pops, and it went from there...Then I got to feeling sad about so much that we've lost in this world, the gentleness and happiness being just a two of those things.. I then found this video, put it on the page of the person I was nattering on to, then put it on here...as I knew there'd be other folks who'd enjoy seeing it. The lighthearted remark about 'The Sisterhood' is there because I **knew** I'd not be able to post a link to Pan's People without them turning up and going off in their, to me, bitter and twisted ways..and sure enough, so it came to be...... But nope, it was put on there for others to enjoy...and I'm glad that some have. Lizzie :0) |
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31 Oct 10 - 01:52 PM (#3020106) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,Jon Think I was that bit too young for PP but rightly or wrongly* as a later teenager, I did find hot gossip sensual. *Think these days while I can still look, I would rather be away from temptations of the flesh. My older head would get more out of say a greenhouse full of tomatoes than erotic dancing. |
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31 Oct 10 - 02:02 PM (#3020112) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Lot's of lasses out there enjoying themselves flirting and dancing in revealing outfits still Lizzie, and I'm sure the boysies still like to look at them. They're just not so likely to be paid to do it on prime-time BBC anymore. |
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31 Oct 10 - 02:03 PM (#3020113) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Bonzo3legs The trouble is that too many women dress as if for the English version of the taliban!!! |
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31 Oct 10 - 02:06 PM (#3020115) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,Alan Whittle For our generation; TOTP was total crap. We couldn't believe that RSG, (which had real reverence for our music) went, whilst TOTP, which was 'family viewing' and the spiritual home of showbiz deadbeats survived. |
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31 Oct 10 - 02:18 PM (#3020128) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: josepp Somebody referred to the dancers and "bints". I know that's a common word in Britain for a female but I wonder how many Brits know it is also the Arabic word for "girl." How did the Brits get to using an Arabic word? |
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31 Oct 10 - 02:37 PM (#3020144) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Aw face it, some people, in this case women, will do the gig for the money.....sorta like other women do 'other things' for the same. In both cases, they're only out selling imagination! GfS |
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31 Oct 10 - 02:46 PM (#3020150) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "For our generation; TOTP was total crap. We couldn't believe that RSG, (which had real reverence for our music) went, whilst TOTP, which was 'family viewing' and the spiritual home of showbiz deadbeats survived." And Cathy McGowan grew up to marry........Michael Ball. |
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31 Oct 10 - 05:10 PM (#3020261) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Little Hawk We really should get Olive Whatnoll's word on this... ;-) Her word is always the final word on any given matter! |
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31 Oct 10 - 05:22 PM (#3020267) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Olive Whatnoll! :0) LOL I had an Auntie Olive, you know...my Granny's sister..she always refused to wear her glasses and spent her latter days holding things right up close to her face (no, not those sort of things!) ;0) Her face was always screwed up into a tight ball as she struggled to read... "Put your glasses on Olive!" Granny would say. "I don't *need* glasses, Doris!" she'd reply. Soooo funny! |
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31 Oct 10 - 05:25 PM (#3020270) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Arthur_itus Interesting that. We used the word Bint in Brum when I was a teenager. Had no idea it was Arabic. Expression Wouldn't mind shagging that bint over there |
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31 Oct 10 - 05:29 PM (#3020272) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Richard Bridge "Bint" is believed to have come from Cairo to England when Monty's mob came home. As a word, that is. |
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31 Oct 10 - 05:30 PM (#3020273) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Emma B yes it actually comes from the word for daughter although i have no idea by what route but is only really used in a derogatory sense in the UK, which I think Arthur illustrates quite well! |
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31 Oct 10 - 05:34 PM (#3020277) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Arthur_itus It wasn't derogatory. It meant that the young lady was good looking and sexy and a night under the sheets was well fancied. |
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31 Oct 10 - 05:41 PM (#3020283) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Emma B In that case Arthur I'm sure you would be very happy to hear your daughter described in the same way I personally have never heard it used in any way that treats the object of the word with any kind of respect and I have never found a dictionary that does not define it as derogatory in verying degrees Try the urban dictionary of slang! |
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31 Oct 10 - 05:50 PM (#3020289) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Arthur_itus Well we in Brum must be thick loik |
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31 Oct 10 - 05:51 PM (#3020292) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Arthur_itus Oh and that doesn't mean we did it. We were far to polite for that. |
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31 Oct 10 - 08:01 PM (#3020377) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,Alan Whittle Well whatever the connotation - I think its quite a good addition to,and enrichment of the English language. Because If you were writing a song about a woman with a squint - you would have a very good rhyme The Bint/with a squint... I wooed her with a tube of Polo And extra chewy mints But to my blandishmints she was deaf She had heart of flint She couldn't see it my way Because she had a squint Arthur Itis's fair daughter The good looking sexy bint. Of course you can argue that its not politically correct, but I feel it has something. |
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31 Oct 10 - 08:02 PM (#3020380) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Gurney Bint was just an 'in' word that the khaki-jobs brought back from the Middle East. Never caught on much with the next generation, like me. |
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01 Nov 10 - 03:51 AM (#3020537) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: VirginiaTam Bonzo - I simply meant that they don't place well today. I am in agreement with the leggings thing. I wore them in the 1980s when I still had a decent ass and legs. If I wear them today, they are only as a thermal layer beneath the jeans to keep the cold away from my arthritic hips and knees. |
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01 Nov 10 - 05:31 AM (#3020572) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Arthur_itus LOL you get worse Al :-) |
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01 Nov 10 - 05:42 AM (#3020578) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Female Hip-Hop Battles These lassies possibly aren't showing enough tits and bums to qualify as being 'real women' like Pan's People, but they're definitely more interesting to watch as far as I'm concerned... ;-) In fact there's quite a lot of hip-hop battles out there on YouTube, they're quite addictive when you start watching them. And despite being (or maybe because of being) pretty much ignored by mainstream media they must certainly vie for a key place in contemporary folk arts and culture. |
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01 Nov 10 - 06:55 AM (#3020603) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,Patsy I was a bit of a tomboy back then anyway and the idea of wearing pink filled me with horror. My mother did her best to kit me out in pink and ribbons but it was a loosing battle. As for dancing I was more interested in Hot Gossip on the Kenny Everett Show but only to wind up Mary Whithouse! |
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01 Nov 10 - 09:02 AM (#3020671) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Bonzo3legs "Bonzo - I simply meant that they don't place well today. I am in agreement with the leggings thing. I wore them in the 1980s when I still had a decent ass and legs. If I wear them today, they are only as a thermal layer beneath the jeans to keep the cold away from my arthritic hips and knees." My sympathies for your arthritics, my wife has big problems with her knees, which added to all her other medical problems cannot be fun. |
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01 Nov 10 - 11:57 AM (#3020789) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,Tunesmith Crow Sister: Those girls are so unfeminine, so un-sexy. But that's par for the course these days! |
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01 Nov 10 - 12:45 PM (#3020828) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Tunesmith, you might not find them sexy, but then those girls are competing in a dance competition not a beauty pageant. As such, they are being judged on their skill and creativity in that form of dance, and not on how sexy and feminine they are. Many of the dress codes that develop in sub-cultures are actually quite pragmatic. Street dance for example is essentially (as the name suggests) an outdoors activity done in the street and not a nice cosy dance studio (where dancers might be expected to wear leggings and leotards). You'll notice their clothes are multi-layered casual/sports wear (fairly standard principles for athletic exercise, ask any runner) and also loose enough to move about freely in. Their shoes are also sports shoes rather than high heels for example, which would make a lot of their moves impossible. |
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01 Nov 10 - 12:49 PM (#3020833) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Jeri Apparently, par for the course, THERE, in THOSE days was soft porn. I don't mind pretty or sexy, something I never managed to pull off, but those girls couldn't dance all that well, either. |
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01 Nov 10 - 01:15 PM (#3020854) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray By what reactionary sexist misogynistic bigoted bullshit can any woman be considered unfeminine? This one really is scraping the bottom of the barrel, folks... |
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01 Nov 10 - 02:06 PM (#3020909) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Jeri I hated pink, too. I used to climb trees and play with toy trucks with the boys, although I also played with dolls and liked being a princess. I was a princess who climbed trees. I never thought much about being a stereotypical girl. Luckily, my parents didn't try to force me to quit jumping in puddles. The greatest thing a society or a community or a family can do for a person is to help them be the best whomever they are. A song I was just discussing with someone last night is Dar Williams' "When I Was a Boy". I guess girls like that, if they're lucky, grow up to not really care for pink, and flouncing, and playing head games with boys. |
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01 Nov 10 - 02:41 PM (#3020951) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,Anal Whittle 'By what reactionary sexist misogynistic bigoted bullshit can any woman be considered unfeminine?' I've never really thought of myself as particularly masculine. surely there are degrees of masculinity and feminity. I'd probably get a 2.2 |
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01 Nov 10 - 03:09 PM (#3020978) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Little Hawk Well, y'know, I have encountered a few women who were a lot less feminine than the general average! ;-) Not that they completely lacked ALL feminine characteristics, they just seemed really intent on projecting only their masculine side. Perhaps they were recently reincarnated from being Prussian or Turkish drill sergeants and they just couldn't shake their previous identity off... I mean....the "John Wayne" body language! The hobnailed boots! The quarter inch long buzzcut! The calloused hands! The spitting and scratching and swearing! (****shudder****) |
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01 Nov 10 - 03:49 PM (#3021021) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: MikeL2 hi Lizzie many thanks for the blast from the past. I can remember the arguements caused in our office - all men - the day after TOTP; and how some of the guys used to argue which of Pans People was the most sexy. Sometimes the arguements became very noisy and more than once fists were raised. One guy managed to get a ticket to get in to see the show ( it was shot in those in Manchester where it originated.....???? I think). His stories about the show and some of the after show action was relayed through-out the company and each telling became more spicy. He was never seen on camera but you would have thought he was the star of the show !!! I wasn't really a fan of TOTP but did used to watch it if I wasn't training for rugby or playing cricket. About the bints terminology - we used to use it but it was not in a complementary way. We also later used birds but this was more complimentary. Many Thanks Regards MikeL2 |
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01 Nov 10 - 03:52 PM (#3021027) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,mg I think part of the problem is that many of us were raised not to be feminine, in case we attracted men ever. There was I think a great culture of perhaps androgeny at least for Catholic girls and the purpose was to make us unattractive. If you can keep teenage girls in clunky shoes and dark depressing uniforms you have prevented all sorts of interest from boys. The trouble was they never said OK when you are 18/21/35 you can shake loose of all this and wear prettier things. mg |
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01 Nov 10 - 04:06 PM (#3021039) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) "feminine characteristics," When I was a little girl we didn't have a telly so I didn't get exposed to *too much* of the gender stereotyping that saturates the media (such as on TotP with Pan's People for example). What I did have however was an amazing book full of photo's that I liked to browse. I recall in particular one lovely young woman with sparkling eyes, her head completely shaved, an intricate tracery of scars over her face, and a brilliant smile displaying her teeth all sharply pointed like a cats. |
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01 Nov 10 - 05:30 PM (#3021095) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Bonzo3legs Erm.....gender stereotyping ????? I must find the Borough of Croydon Equal Opportunities Handbook - one of the best comedy publications I have ever seen!! |
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01 Nov 10 - 05:45 PM (#3021106) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Little Hawk It's a wonderful thing to see either a man or a woman who has come into the full acceptance of exactly who and what they are, and who shows it with joy and exuberance. |
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01 Nov 10 - 10:33 PM (#3021291) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Leadfingers I recall the EARLY TOTP screenings - We (R A F Trainee Teenagers) used to watch it for the shots of the AUDIENCE . There were ALWAYS nice shots of young lassies in short skirts and such - the cameramen semed to find them every time ! A LOT More Interesting than 'Professional' dancers . |
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02 Nov 10 - 04:35 AM (#3021389) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) "It's a wonderful thing to see either a man or a woman who has come into the full acceptance of exactly who and what they are," Indeed :) The photo was subtitled something like "a local beauty" and the book was a kind of anthropological picture book for kids called 'the book of mankind' or some-such. I guess what I was getting at was I discovered early on that our local notions of femininity, beauty etc. were not the only ones out there, and that they were very different in other places. Today, I could explain to myself then that ideas about gender and and what signifies 'masculinity' and 'femininity', are culturally determined constructs. |
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02 Nov 10 - 05:38 AM (#3021415) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) It might have helped that when I grew up, all the men around me had long hair and wore floaty blouses of course! I was raised with long hair to, but was thirteen the first time I had most of it shaved off. Not because I wanted to be more 'masculine' (see above) but because there was an arty looking modette at my school (a few years older than me) and I thought she looked really cool - definitely more classy than all the girls with poodle-head perms in my year. |
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02 Nov 10 - 06:14 AM (#3021433) Subject: RE: BS: When Girls were Girls... From: GUEST,Patsy The reason I kept my hair long was because I liked rock and I liked to head bang on the odd occasion. On the otherhand when the situation called for it I could be sophisticated in black. One person's idea of a girly girl can be different than another. My mum loved the Shirley Templey kind of girl and saw me in her minds eye with curls and puffed sleeves, my idea of looking like a woman was more on the lines of Audrey Hepburn (I could only try to emulate it). Talking of Pan's People the strange thing is if ever I hear an old song from back then I can always recall the dance routine more than the song it still sticks in my mind! And I swore I never watched them. The good thing about Pan's People was that each one had an individual personality unlike today, but I don't think it is anything to do with being anymore girly than anyone else. |
