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11 Nov 10 - 10:49 PM (#3029997) Subject: BS: Water Wars From: Little Hawk You think Global Warming is scary? Well, you ain't seen nothin' yet. Have a look at this, and see if you can view all 6 parts...and watch for the connection TO climate change. Is the tail wagging the dog in our media and scientific community when it talks about lakes drying up and climate changing and attributes that to carbon emissions while NOT mentioning our massive over-consumption of fresh water and depletion of lakes and aquifers? Or are they engaged in dragging a red herring across the trail while the major corporations busily steal and sell the public's most vital common resource which USED to be free: water. Quite possibly. But just watch the video. And then watch the other 5 parts of the video. Eventually you may get what I mean about that. Water Wars - Part 5 of 6 |
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11 Nov 10 - 11:27 PM (#3030008) Subject: RE: BS: Water Wars From: Ebbie Like I've said, re-fit our homes and businesses with separate systems for potable water, gray water and black water. If a household is cuurently using 200 gallons of water a day, the usage will probably drop to about 20 gallons. Or less. Our current system is unconscionable. |
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12 Nov 10 - 06:13 PM (#3030702) Subject: RE: BS: Water Wars From: EBarnacle The average American water usage from all sources is estimated as 100 gallons per day. As we draw down the aquifers, lakes and other sources of ground water dry up. The only places left to get water are desalination and from the atmosphere, in the form of atmospheric water generation. |
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12 Nov 10 - 07:01 PM (#3030735) Subject: RE: BS: Water Wars From: Bill D During serious droughts, communities often issue "don't flush for everything" notices. Why limit that totally to droughts? There are sorts of ways besides...or before... refitting the entire water systems that we can reduce one of the most wasteful uses or water. |
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12 Nov 10 - 09:28 PM (#3030826) Subject: RE: BS: Water Wars From: Q (Frank Staplin) Water is a serious problem everywhere. A few instances I have seen talked about in the last few months. Melting in the Himalayas, currently taking place, is affecting rivers in India and Pakistan. Agriculture, industry and cities will be hurt. (Downstream rains and floods are not helpful). The Tigris-Euphrates system and others in the Middle East are reduced, cutting into agriculture. Water use by Israel has made a viable agriculture by Palestine impossible (Palestine is an impossible dream anyhow). Growing southwest US populations are making water use a critical issue. Florida wetlands are diminishing as the population burgeons. My city of Calgary depends largely on glacial and snow meltwater; glaciers are disappearing and the climate has become drier. |
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13 Nov 10 - 04:44 AM (#3030930) Subject: RE: BS: Water Wars From: The Fooles Troupe "Palestine is an impossible dream anyhow" From Roman times, it was a given that conquerors would not damage the olive trees. The olive trees are now being destroyed in arab areas of Palestine... but of course the conquerors are not interested in growing olives any more ... But back to the thread... Water wars are likely in such areas, but I find the concept of it in places like the USA going to war with anybody else (except Canada & Mexico) is unlikely to be practical, as the logistics of moving sufficient quantities around are immense. It's a good journalistic frightener though. |
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13 Nov 10 - 10:55 AM (#3031069) Subject: RE: BS: Water Wars From: Little Hawk I think the primary implication in the "scare" stories is that areas which are running out of water to sustain their people are going to become de-stabilized and that will result in wars and civil insurrections. Furthermore, the logisitics of moving large quantities of water around ARE immense, yes...but don't think that those logistics are not being put into place, because they are. Water is an absolute necessity, not a choice, therefore people will do anything they have to to get fresh water. Anything. You either get it or you die. |
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13 Nov 10 - 11:05 AM (#3031073) Subject: RE: BS: Water Wars From: Bettynh When our (Nashua, NH) for-profit water company almost sold to a French firm, the city stepped in with an offer of its own. It took eight years and lots (and lots and lots) of lawyers, but the deal was done this week (pending a few more details). Our water is mostly surface (small streams, lakes, and swamps) and the deal also includes a real-estate company that had started building lots of commercial buildings on land next to the watershed. I am SO relieved that the decisions about what will happen next will not come from a profit-oriented group on another continent. There are some anti-big-government folks here that will be foaming at the mouth. Hopefully, they'll mutate into a group that can provide useful oversight of the city's management of the water system. From our city's website: "History of the City of Nashua - Pennichuck Agreement The City of Nashua understands that drinking water is of critical importance to the long-term sustainability of the City and the region. The availability and associated cost of plentiful, clean drinking water impacts the desirability of businesses and residents to locate here and grow here. Most of Nashua's drinking water is provided by Pennichuck Water Works, and has been since the company's inception in 1852. Throughout the years, and still today, many of the people who operate Pennichuck and make decisions about the future of our drinking water are neighbors and friends. The citizens of Nashua think of Pennichuck as a local business. Since the 1970s and the Clean Water Act, our nation has become increasingly aware of the fragility of drinking water, and how our actions influence its quality and quantity. In the early 1980s, Pennichuck reorganized, and with that reorganization came the approval by the Public Utilities Commission to dispose of approximately 1,100 acres of watershed land and build a water treatment plant. Since that time, a significant amount of the 1,100 acres has been developed. In the 1990s the citizens and policy leaders of the City became more and more concerned with Pennichuck Corporation's need to "balance between watershed protection and economic growth," as expressed by then-CEO Maurice Arel. In response to those concerns, the City of Nashua passed the Water Supply Protection District ordinance to increase protection of the watershed. The City then purchased 250 acres plus 41 acres of conservation easement from Pennichuck Corporation to protect the land from being developed by Pennichuck Corporation. In April 2002 Pennichuck Corporation announced its agreement to merge with Philadelphia Suburban , the second largest water company in our nation, located in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. As a result, the City filed as interveners with the Public Utilities Commission (PUC), contracted consultants to provide information to ensure knowledgeable decision-making, and engaged in negotiations with other communities regarding the possibility of a regional water district. On January 14, 2003 a special election was held and the citizens of Nashua voted by 77% to support the City's pursuit of public ownership of their drinking water system. Subsequent to that vote, Philadelphia Suburban withdrew its offer. In the nearly seven years since that vote, City leaders have pursued both taking the utility by eminent domain and negotiating a private buyout of the company's stock. The following is a timeline of major events since January, 2003: November 2003 - The City offers to buy Pennichuck for $121 million. Pennichuck's board of directors unanimously rejects this offer one month later. March 2004 – City officials file a petition with the PUC to take Pennichuck Corporation by eminent domain. Pennichuck Corporation owns five related companies, including Pennichuck Water Works, Inc., The Southwood Corporation, Pennichuck Water Service Corp., Pennichuck East Utility, and Pittsfield Aqueduct Co. July 2004 – Hearings begin at PUC regarding the City's proposed takeover. January 2007 - Hearings begin at the PUC but are suspended when both sides ask for 120 days to work out a negotiated settlement. Shortly afterwards, the City terminates the talks saying it cannot reach a settlement with the utility. The case returns to the PUC. July 2008 - The New Hampshire Public Utilities Commission rules that it is in the public interest for the City of Nashua to take the assets of Pennichuck Water Works, Inc. The Commission sets the value of that taking at $203 million, and also requires a mitigation fund of $43 million. In a dissenting opinion Commissioner Clifton Below reasons that the proper value of the taking should cost no more than $151 million. Both sides ask the Commission to reconsider its ruling. The City maintains the price is too high, while Pennichuck claims the taking is not buyout is illegal and cited legal errors. March 2009 – The PUC denies both parties' requests for reconsideration. April 2009 – The City and Pennichuck both file notices of appeal with the New Hampshire Supreme Court. Nashua appeals the value set by the PUC as too high. Fall of 2009 – The City of Nashua and Pennichuck file legal briefs concerning the issues on appeal with the New Hampshire Supreme Court. January 2010 - The supreme court is expected to schedule oral arguments early in the New Year. November 2010 - Mayor Donnalee Lozeau announced that the city has signed a definitive merger agreement to acquire all the outstanding shares of Pennichuck Corporation (Nasdaq: PNNW) for a price of $29.00 per share, or approximately $138 million in cash. Under the proposed acquisition, the city will acquire control of all of the company assets, liabilities and businesses, including the land comprising the watershed of the Pennichuck Brook and the three regulated water utilities owned by the company." Follow the link to Pensylvania Urban to see that the largest shareholder is Vivendi, the largest (for profit) water company in the world. Also of note - the CEO of our water company that almost sold to Vivendi was a former mayor of Nashua. Local, global, it's all politics and profit. |
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13 Nov 10 - 11:37 AM (#3031087) Subject: RE: BS: Water Wars From: Bettynh I've been googling around the above info, and found that Philadelphia Suburban Water is now Aqua America, and Vivendi has spun off Veolia Environment. They have separated, and are now independently gobbling up small water companies in this country. overview |