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14 Nov 10 - 04:40 AM (#3031640) Subject: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: Phot Hi all, I heard a snatch of this song sung by Shep Wooley. Would anyone have the full lyrics? Wassail!! Chris |
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14 Nov 10 - 09:59 AM (#3031786) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: GUEST,Derrick A recording of the song can be found in The British Library sound archival recordings. I found by searching using the Question "the montegue whaler". I would like to post a link but sadly I don't know to. Hope this helps you find it |
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14 Nov 10 - 10:59 AM (#3031841) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: Phot Thanks Derrick, I'll look it up! Wassail!! Chris |
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14 Nov 10 - 12:03 PM (#3031905) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: GUEST,Derrick Hello again Chris. I may have slightly misled you. The search question I quoted was for the google type search I used which led me to archive site. The title for the archive search is "Montague whaler" |
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14 Nov 10 - 01:27 PM (#3031973) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: bubblyrat The Montague whaler ! Great fun ! Good to "pull" (row) or sail,with her loose-footed, dipping- lug rig ; I nearly died in one (1964) once,pulling back into Portsmouth harbour,past Fort Blockhouse,when a Fast Attack Craft ( "Gay Swordsman",or "Gay Cavalier" or something---yes! the RN had ships called things like that in those days !!) shot past us at about 18 knots ,and the wash completely swamped us ! Later , circa 1970/71, whilst serving with "Daedalus" Boats Party at Hornet Naval Yacht Centre, (now JSSC),Haslar Creek, I helped to train two Fire Brigade crews, from Portsmouth & Southsea,for their inaugural annual whaler race between their two respective piers; great fun !! Never heard a song about one,though ! |
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14 Nov 10 - 02:54 PM (#3032032) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: Ged Fox I heard a woman sing it a month or so ago (Bampton or Boarhunt?) - I only remember the line "The days of the Montague whaler will not come again" or something miserable like that. The boat really deserves a much more robust sort of song. I used to own such a whaler, in Portsmouth harbour, in the 1970's, but my earliest memory of one was from about 1960, fending one off from Haslar wall in a stiff breeze as we tried to make our way back to HMS Vernon, whence my naval uncle had borrowed it (the whaler, that is, not the wall.) |
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14 Nov 10 - 04:15 PM (#3032106) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: Commander Crabbe Bubblyrat The good old Montague "3 in 1" been in a couple myself but never heard Shep sing it. The boat that nearly ran you down was "Brave Swordsman" her sister ship was "Brave Borderer". The british library link is: Click here CC |
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14 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM (#3032133) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: Sugwash Written by Bernie Bruen (Later commander RN) Well your lacings are frayed And your sheets disarrayed And your travellers jammed at the yard You've lost crinkle and bone And your planking is thrown And the grease in your pintle's gone hard Well your garbut strake's split And your stretchers don't fit And your paintwork's beginning to peel Your gunnels have slipped And your tiller's unshipped And the deadwood's adrift from your keel They once sailed you proud Sang your praises out loud The pride of the fleet that you served No more will they shout As they bring you about Is this the reward you deserve? For your legend's been told By the sailors of old Of the lives that you saved from the sea You're the last galley 'ots You've been left here to rot Now who's going to save you for me? When you shake out your reef Take the wind by its teeth And you sail into history and song Though they've thrown you away Please recall what I say Forgive us for being so wrong So away with your kelson And away with your yard And away with your mizzen and main For the days of the Montague Whaler Are the days we shall not see again |
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15 Nov 10 - 07:29 AM (#3032543) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: Phot Thanks Sugwash! Brilliant! Wassail!! Chris |
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15 Nov 10 - 07:46 PM (#3033096) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: EBarnacle In line 1, verse 2, the word should probably be garb'rd or garb'd rather than garbut, as the full word is correctly garboard. |
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18 Nov 10 - 04:32 AM (#3034939) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: Sugwash Thanks for that EBarnacle, I ought to have known, but I spent my time in diesel submarines and we only had a rubber dingy in the way of a ship's boat (or, more correctly, a boat's boat). My only experience of rowing boats was when our over-enthusiastic skipper used to challenge other ships and boats to a boat race against his 'lads' whilst alongside in Plymouth. I don't know what kind of boats they were, probably a launches, but I do remember thinking of Bernie Bruen's song as we gasped our way past Jupiter Point, ruining my precious musician's hands in the process. Aye Andy |
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22 Nov 10 - 09:38 AM (#3037952) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: Jim Dixon You can hear Bernie Bruen singing MONTAGUE WHALER at The British Library Archival Sound Recordings. Wikipedia lacks an entry for "Montague Whaler" though it's mentioned in an article about Cooks Yard, Maldon, Essex, where they were built and repaired. |
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17 Jul 11 - 08:55 AM (#3189381) Subject: Lyr Add: MONTAGUE WHALER (Bernie Bruen) From: Jenny S Here are the words as I had them direct from Bernie (via Cos): basically the same as Sug posted above, but with Bernie's spelling. Hope Bernie doesn't mind us posting them here? So away with your keelson, away with your yard, Away with your mizzen and main, For the days of the Montague Whaler Are the days we will not see again. Your lacings are frayed and your sheets disarrayed. Your traveller's jammed at the yard. You've lost cringle and bung and your planking is sprung And the grease in your pintle's gone hard. Your garboard strake's split and your stretchers don't fit. Your paintwork's beginning to peel. Your gun'ls have dipped and your tiller's unshipped And the deadwood'd adrift from your keel. They once sailed you proud, sang your praises out loud, The pride of the ships that you served, But no more will they shout as they put you about. Is this the reward you deserved? Your legend's been told by the sailors of old Of the lives that you've saved from the sea. You're the last Galliot. You've been left here to rot. Now who's going to save you for me? When you shake out your reef, take the wind by its teeth, And sail into history and song, Though we've thrown you away, please recall what I say. Forgive us for being so wrong. |
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18 Jul 11 - 12:18 AM (#3189799) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: Teribus The Montague Whaler and the "3-in-1" were completely different craft the latter was the "ship's boat" that replaced the Montague Whaler which had no engine, the "3-in-1" was a straight forward cutter rig whereas the Montague Whaler was a yawl. One of the fastest recoveries of a "Man Overboard" by ship's boat was recorded from a Destroyer equipped with a Montague Whaler - the time 90 seconds. I once watched Brave Borderer preparing for sea once, the routine was to start up her cruising diesels then fire up her main engines which were gas turbines. On this occasion the jet blast from the latter knocked a Bosun dinghy over. Credited with a top speed of over 60 knots "Borderer" and "Swordsman" in the right conditions could leave Portland and be in Cherbourg within 45 minutes, the new fast ferry "cats" take 2 hours. |
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18 Jul 11 - 12:29 AM (#3189803) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler From: Teribus Having just listened to the link of the song, the person singing sounds like Shep Woolley. |
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15 Sep 11 - 06:58 PM (#3223824) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: GUEST I believe the last Montague whaler was used at HMS Caroline RNR base in Belfast.She was often used and well cared for until the Navy in their wisdom decided to burn her replacing her with 'plastic' boats.She was destroyed in the early '80's.Sad. |
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15 Sep 11 - 07:05 PM (#3223828) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: GUEST Shep did sing the song, It's on one of his early albums. Can anyone give me info about a poem which was on the same album? BATTLE OF TRAFALGAR. It started,
"I'll tell you a seafaring story, It's about 30 verses long but a great party piece for 'spent seamen'. |
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20 Sep 11 - 09:40 AM (#3226053) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: Jim Dixon Last Guest: The poem you want is GUNNER JOE. It was written by Marriott Edgar, recited by Stanley Holloway, and is available on several CDs. You can also see the complete text at http://monologues.co.uk/Gunner_Joe.htm. There are lots more monologues at that web site. |
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14 Mar 12 - 08:07 AM (#3322683) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: GUEST,Bernie Bruen Hi Folks, Glad to see there are still people interested in the Montague Whaler. I wrote the song after passing the 'dead Boat pound', just inside the dockyard gate in Pompey, where I saw a large number of these once well-loved boats left to rot. That night I woke with the words in my head and quickly scribbled them down and they were still there the next morning. The song has not changed since. Shep recorded it on his album 'Goodbye Sailor' (or was it 'Songs for Oars and Scrubbers?) and still sings it to this day. I have come across it sung all around the world and it is published in the latest edition of the Oxford Book of Sea Songs - 'Boxing the Compass'. Apart from the Montagues upon which I lavished much time in the RN, I once owned (saved) the Montague Swan, last heard of somewhere in Cornwall and I hope still going strong. I was once asked for permission to sing the song by a well known Folk singer and my reply was then and is now, "Songs are for singing." |
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19 Jun 12 - 02:17 PM (#3365524) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: GUEST I'll tell you a sea faring story of a lad who won 'onour and fame, wi Nelson, at battle of Trafalgar. Joe Muggeridge, that were 'is name. This was from Shep Wooley's last Gig on before leaving the The Grey Funnel Line. Recorded at H.M.S. Excellent, Whale Island, it was called "Goodbye Sailor"! Fond memories. |
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24 Jul 12 - 07:05 PM (#3381050) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: GUEST Bit late I know, but i do have the album, lol, Shep and the Whalers. Joking, lemme know? Ada |
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13 Nov 12 - 07:31 AM (#3435726) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: GUEST I sing this song frequently acapella, at the Fleece in Bretforton(Worcs) . I first heard Shep sing it at a P.O's mess bash, many years ago.. but for some reason the line ' grease in your pintles gone hard' often draws a snigger from the landlubbers and for me ruins the seriousness and feeling of the song, so I sing 'gone bad' instead. -a lovely song thanks Bernie ex-PO Tiff aka 'MuddleC' |
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13 Nov 12 - 08:58 AM (#3435756) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: GUEST,henryp "The Montagu Whaler was the standard Royal Navy ship's boat from before WW1 to the 1960s, designed aroung 1900 by an Admiral Montagu." I presume this is the Admiral Montagu responsible; http://www.hinchhouse.org.uk/fifth/admiral.html Admiral Victor Alexander Montagu CB was born 20.4.1841 and died 29.1.1915. 5th Feb 1915 We regret to announce the death of Rear Admiral the Hon Victor Alexander Montagu CB, brother and heir presumptive to the present Earl of Sandwich. Born in 1841 he was the second son of the Seventh Earl of Sandwich and Lady Margaret Paget. Entering the navy in December 1853 he saw considerable service as a midshipman in the war with Russia, the China War and the Indian Mutiny. He told how on the same day he was asked to dine with both Queen Victoria and the German Kaiser, some great distance apart. He solved the situation by first dining with the Queen at Osbourne, excusing himself, being driven in a fast cab to the Kaier's launch and making a full costume change on the way. |
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13 Nov 12 - 09:01 AM (#3435759) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: bubblyrat Just re-read my posting , and No ! It wasn't a "Brave " -class anything ; they were not around in 1964 ! It was definitely a "Gay" -class launch .There really was a small flotilla of Fast Attack Craft " whose names began with "Gay" . Gay Fencer ? ; Gay Charioteer ? Someone , look it up, please ! Meanwhile ; the Montague whaler might appear somewhere other than Wikipedia under its alternative name of "De Horsy " rig , as that sail-plan was known. I remember "mousing the hooks" ; archaic ,but simple and effective (and fun !). |
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13 Nov 12 - 09:15 AM (#3435764) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: Ged Fox The "De Horsey" rig was for cutters |
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13 Nov 12 - 09:35 AM (#3435774) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: Ged Fox Oops - that was a bit abrupt. The De Horsey rig consisted of a foresail & a gaff mainsail, and was used on pinnaces and cutters. The Montague rig used on whalers consisted of foresail, standing lug mainsail & a mizzen sail. |
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13 Nov 12 - 11:52 AM (#3435893) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: bubblyrat DIPPING-lug mainsail ; one had to get up and " dip " the bottom of the yard every time one went about . And in the RN Seamanship Manual , the whaler rig is described as " Montague or De Horsey rig " ( sorry , I forgot the "e" earlier ).But maybe there was a choice ? ; something I'd never considered before ! |
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13 Nov 12 - 12:03 PM (#3435898) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: bubblyrat YEP ! QED ! Gay as you like , the lot of 'em ; HMS Gay Archer, Gay Bombardier , Gay Bowman ,Gay Bruiser , Gay Carabineer, Gay Cavalier , Gay Centurion , Gay Charger , Gay Charioteer , Gay Dragoon , Gay Fencer , and Gay Forester . No comedians , please . |
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13 Nov 12 - 12:53 PM (#3435941) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: MartinRyan Click here for plans and some nice stories. Regards |
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17 Nov 12 - 05:09 PM (#3437942) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: GUEST,HSCS Cox'n For interest, Gents and Tiffs, We have two Montagues in Boathouse4 in Pompey Dockyard Heritage Area with another one being delivered first week in December. We had one out sailing today (17/11/2012) in the Solent to give some practice to some wafoos who are re-creating Shackletons' epic sail from Antarctica to Elephant Island in January 2013 (Mad b****ers) If anyone wants a close look at them, approach the barriers within the Boathouse and shout "Tot Time". Regards Historic Small Craft Section |
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18 Nov 12 - 05:30 AM (#3438075) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: Ged Fox HSCS: How can I join? Bubblyrat: As I understand it, the dipping lug has its tack attached before the mast, and the standing lug has the tack attached to the mast. My Admiralty Manual of Seamanship (date missing, but 1940s I think) describes the Montague rig as having a standing lug, even though, as you say, the yard was dipped on tacking. The whaler rig certainly changed over time. The 1915 MofS shows the whaler with 2 dipping lug sails as an alternative to the Montague rig. Teribus says above that the 3-in-1 had a cutter rig, so that was, presumably de Horsey. |
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17 Jun 13 - 12:23 PM (#3527198) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: GUEST Sorry but I have to correct the 3in1 thread - this was a gunter rig ie mast and gaff about the same length to stow in the boat. When rigged for sailing the gaff was hauled up close to the mast (like a RNSA 14ft Dinghy)to increase height and offering better close hauled performance similar to a Bermudan rig. I used to sail cutters, whalers (and RNSAs) as a cadet at TS Mercury and we dipped both yards when tacking or gybing I came by this site looking for the correct name for the split hook arrangement used to attach the whaler main sheet a bar in the boat's side when changing tacks. The cutter main sheet went to a sailing horse on the transom. |
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18 Dec 20 - 02:38 AM (#4083958) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Montague Whaler (Bernie Bruen) From: GUEST,Skygypsy So, I’ve just about finished the recovery of Lord Harlech’s Montagu. Interestingly my father was also a TS Mercury boy and I wondered if he’d used Montagu for sailing and pulling? Currently down at Mears Boat Yard Seaton, the hope is to put her in the Great River Race 2021, also some thoughts of a Channel dash on the Dunkirk delayed 80th anniversary using a serving and ex serving crew to try a channel crossing as fast as possible with a handful of sand grabbed off the Dunkirk beach. I’m still triggering to get any real info on the history of this boat but she is numbered E109. 1940. Any help would be greatly appreciated in information.... now trying to find 17 and and a 16ft oar (seem really big but according to TAMoS Vol 1 1937 that’s what she needs. The only other info I ad on her was the name Topaz/e. Possible connections there with HMT Topaze or HMT Kingston Topaz. Likewise since she was owned by Lord Harlech HMT Harlech Castle may have had a possible connection but I think Topaz is the stronger one for now.Not sure if or how to link a picture but Mears have done a superb job of the restoration, my input has been a lot of paint scraping and sanding. There were multiple layers of paint in grey primers and undercoat, Battleship Grey Top coat then Dark Green, Maroon, some kind of a black tar type thing, a dangling orange then white and finally a sort of light Turquoise. Not always it seemed in the same order. Many thanks in advance for any expansion of Whaler information. Incidentally Swan is now at Bristol and I saw her there only a few months back. TSG |