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28 Nov 10 - 06:08 PM (#3042330) Subject: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk Use this thread to make absolutely clear various things you have not succeeded in making absolutely clear on other threads. Remove all confusion or doubt that may reside in various people's minds regarding what you are saying, have said or intend to say. Make sure they understand fully how you feel, what you mean, where you're coming from, and why. Hold nothing back. This is YOUR chance to achieve total clarity. |
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28 Nov 10 - 06:14 PM (#3042337) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Dave MacKenzie Why? |
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28 Nov 10 - 06:19 PM (#3042341) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Ed T If you open any more f'n stupid and without end "God" threads, you can f' off and die...and f'n go meet your "maker" after that. Now, I feel better. |
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28 Nov 10 - 06:22 PM (#3042343) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: gnu I made them clear. |
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28 Nov 10 - 06:27 PM (#3042349) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Greg F. "Clear"? As in Scientology? |
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28 Nov 10 - 06:41 PM (#3042358) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Ebbie I like mystery. Now have I made myself clear? |
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28 Nov 10 - 06:52 PM (#3042366) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Steve Shaw My mistakes are crystal clear, as achy tony and Ebbie will testify. Whilst we're not exactly writing scientific papers for learned journals, it behoves us to try to be as clear as possible. It only really gets annoying when you read gibberish from people whom you know to be articulate. It can be a real test of Sanity at times. |
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28 Nov 10 - 06:54 PM (#3042367) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Ed T When seeking true meaning and clarity, seek out the fortune cookie: the fortune cookie |
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28 Nov 10 - 06:57 PM (#3042369) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Dave MacKenzie Shouldn't this thread be entitled "The Clarity Delusion"? |
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28 Nov 10 - 10:22 PM (#3042459) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk We need still another thread for that, don't we? As Richard Nixon always used to say with deep seriousness and quivering jowls... "Now let me make myself perfectly clear....." |
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28 Nov 10 - 10:27 PM (#3042462) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk I dislike the taste of olives intensely. I think they taste bloody awful! I will not eat them. Have I made myself clear? |
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28 Nov 10 - 11:16 PM (#3042478) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Ed T "Shouldn't this thread be entitled "The Clarity Delusion"?" Let's not be too loose with the lusions! |
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28 Nov 10 - 11:43 PM (#3042482) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Ebbie Too loose, Lautrec? |
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29 Nov 10 - 12:27 AM (#3042502) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Jon Anyone who does not love the taste of olives (because I love them and I am always right) is a complete and utter fool. Clear enough LH? :-) |
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29 Nov 10 - 01:13 AM (#3042511) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Don Firth Any time Richard Nixon said, "Now, let me make myself perfectly clear," it was a guaranteed 24 carat gold tip-off that for the next few minutes he was going to talk total blather. But he had a lot of people convinced that he was being perfectly clear, even though they didn't understand what the hell he was saying. That was the point. Clear? Don Firth |
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29 Nov 10 - 01:23 AM (#3042514) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Jon Not really Don, you see.. There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. (Donald Rumsfeld) |
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29 Nov 10 - 01:29 AM (#3042515) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk Although I can't stand Mr Rumsfeld, he was actually quite perceptive when he said that. There are a vast number of things which people don't know that they don't know...because they've never even given coherent thought to the matter. Ignorance. It's far more widespread than knowledge, and it's usually quite unaware of itself. Rumsfeld was showing some clarity there. ;-) You can be on the wrong side, generally speaking, and still be right on occasion. |
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29 Nov 10 - 02:04 AM (#3042523) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Jon You can be on the wrong side, generally speaking, and still be right on occasion. Oddly enough, that is clear! |
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29 Nov 10 - 02:14 AM (#3042528) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Huh? GfS |
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29 Nov 10 - 05:03 AM (#3042578) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: John MacKenzie Clarity begins at home |
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29 Nov 10 - 05:14 AM (#3042586) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Jon LOL John!!!! |
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29 Nov 10 - 05:51 AM (#3042602) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: gnomad Won't, Sha'n't, Can't make me. Clear enough?? |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:01 AM (#3042743) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: John P I think I just discovered an invisibility potion. Am I making myself clear? |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:09 AM (#3042749) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Bill D I understand completely, gnomad...and I won't try. But TRUE clarity was expressed by a Professor of Philosophy when he gave me an A- on a paper in Phenomenology, and wrote at the top, "You exhibit a capacity for a more penetrating concern." (oh...and I hate olives also..) |
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29 Nov 10 - 12:52 PM (#3042866) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk "Phenomenology"??? Surely you jest! How could anyone possibly come up with a university course called "Phemomenology"? Can you describe the curriculum of such a course? I should be clear about one thing. I do like olive oil. And the character Olive Oyl too, come to thing of it. But I don't like olives themselves. (Now, was that one thing...or three things?) |
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29 Nov 10 - 01:01 PM (#3042872) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Jon So yo at least like spinach, LH> Just hope you are not mates with Bluto |
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29 Nov 10 - 01:06 PM (#3042876) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk I detest Bluto. I'm a Popeye fan all the way. |
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29 Nov 10 - 01:34 PM (#3042897) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: VirginiaTam the truth is in here... some where... if you have the eyes to see |
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29 Nov 10 - 02:22 PM (#3042940) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: frogprince Prsonally, I prefer a good glass of clarity to almost any bourgeoisie. |
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29 Nov 10 - 02:25 PM (#3042947) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: John MacKenzie Dry or Sweet Clarity? |
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29 Nov 10 - 03:37 PM (#3043005) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Dead Horse I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend your right to say it with what may or may not be my last breath, if am feeling that way inclined at that time, in front of witnesses. Or not. |
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29 Nov 10 - 04:01 PM (#3043031) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Dead Horse: "I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend your right to say it with what may or may not be my last breath..." Dead Horse? "Oh, I've been through the dessert On a horse with no legs, It felt good to be out of the rain......" GfS |
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29 Nov 10 - 04:59 PM (#3043072) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Ed T To learn something new, take the path that you took yesterday. ~John Burroughs The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can talk with him? ~Chuang Tzu No matter where you go or what you do, you live your entire life within the confines of your head. ~Terry Josephson If you chase two rabbits, you will not catch either one. ~Russian Proverb To learn something new, take the path that you took yesterday. ~John Burroughs |
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29 Nov 10 - 05:01 PM (#3043077) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Ed T A gun gives you the body, not the bird. ~Henry David Thoreau Men are probably nearer the central truth in their superstitions than in their science. ~Henry David Thoreau |
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29 Nov 10 - 05:33 PM (#3043095) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Bill D "Can you describe the curriculum of such a course?" Well, you read as much of Edmund Husserl's Ideas Pertaining to a Pure Phenomenology and to a Phenomenological Philosophy—First Book: General Introduction to a Pure Phenomenology as the class can stand and pretend to understand some of it. ☺ |
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29 Nov 10 - 06:28 PM (#3043145) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk I took a philosophy course once, Bill. At first I was intrigued and quite interested by the classical philosophers such as Plato and Socrates. Then I became increasingly disenchanted with the whole discipline as we moved into the more modern philosophers, until finally I felt a revulsion for the entire subject. It seemed to be that in their quest to be intellectually and verbally brilliant the modern masters of philosophy had succeeded only in losing what is at the heart of life, losing what makes life worth living, and that humanity in general had somehow lost their souls in their supposed search for knowledge and "rationality", "objectivity" or whatever you might call it. I found it horrifying, in fact, in its moral and emotional emptiness. It seemed to me like a sort of mental masturbation...with none of the pleasure of the physical act, but similarly repetitious and ultimately exhausting...sheer intellectual pride for its own sake, but devoid of love. I have since read many books I found wonderfully meaningful, but you probably wouldn't find most of them on a university philosophy reading list. |
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29 Nov 10 - 06:40 PM (#3043151) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Dave MacKenzie Also sprach Zarathustra...... |
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29 Nov 10 - 07:04 PM (#3043162) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Bill D Also Sprach Little Hawk... "I took a philosophy course once..." Well, you gotta dig deeper than that. I KNOW a lot of it is dry and tasteless to some, but to me it was a way of sorting and comprehending a lot of the meaningful parts of life. "It seemed to me like a sort of mental masturbation." Mercy! You were using the wrong side of the mind! |
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29 Nov 10 - 07:32 PM (#3043178) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk But I have dug deeper, Bill. I've been digging deeper ever since I learned to read. I just haven't done it by enrolling in conventional university philosophy courses. My essential interest in life IS exploring the many philosophy(s) by which people live and understanding why they think and act the way they do, but I do not approach it along the standard academic path. My brief acquaintance with that path convinced me in no uncertain terms that I would be wasting my time there, because they're approaching it in a way that I don't wish to. There are other ways. University, in my opinion, is too much mental...not enough experiential. You have to apply philosophy in your own life to make it have real effect. Just knowing about it and being able to talk about it articulately and write brilliant papers about it is not enough. You have to do it. Make it real. Not just verbalize it. |
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29 Nov 10 - 07:42 PM (#3043182) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Don Firth One takes university courses from good, knowledgeable professors. But that's just the start. Then, you read. And think. Education does not end with graduation. By then, you should have learned how to learn. Then, your education is ready to begin. In the meantime, here's a thought for the day: To do is to be.Don Firth |
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29 Nov 10 - 09:16 PM (#3043243) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk Boy, that Frank was brilliant, eh? ;-) Here's my thought for the day: You are what you do. (Hence, if you do almost nothing, you are almost nothing. A philosophy major who can talk the paint off the wall may sound brilliant and may win complex arguments...but what has he done in his life? How has he put his own philosophy into action? That's the question.) Dillinger robbed banks. That was the most notable thing he did. Therefore, that is what he is most remembered for, being a bank robber. He also had charm. Being charming was something else that he did, therefore he is remembered for that too. U.S. Grant led armies and won victories. That was what he did very well. He also drank heavily and was quite a poor president. He is remembered for all those things, because those were things he did. I've no idea what his philosophy was...but it's quite clear what he did, and that's what really matters with a person. What does he do? As Frank said... Do be do be do. Yup. Pretty well sums it up, eh? ;-) |
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29 Nov 10 - 09:33 PM (#3043249) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: olddude Well as far a clarity goes, if you are stuck in the woods always boil it, but if ya can't, lets say you find an old stagnant pool of water. You can dig down next to it and let the water seep up through the ground, this will normally make it somewhat safer to drink as the ground acts as a natural filter, but it ain't the safest way. This is a desperation way of doing it .. Now I have done it myself, and still do at times but boil it that is the only safe way. Ya can do the old injun trick and that is heat up some rocks and pop them into the water, that brings it to a boil or close enough to kills all the bad critters in it. |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:00 PM (#3043256) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Bill D "My essential interest in life IS exploring the many philosophy(s) by which people live and understanding why they think and act the way they do..." *sigh*...that is called 'equivocating' on the word 'philosophy'. Yes, the word is commonly applied to the simple idea of 'how regular people think about stuff'--- but **Philosophy** IS a serious attempt to categorize and analyze what is involved in that 'thinking'. "I've been digging deeper ever since I learned to read." ....sure...fine...and important & interesting to do... but it's a bit like saying you have planted and tended a garden, and then claiming you have "studied botany". There ARE details and distinctions to be made that NO amount of "digging deeper" will cope with. That doesn't mean "philosophers" lead better lives or are happier than "diggers", but they DO provide a systematic nomenclature for those who try to avoid equivocations and misunderstandings and 'homey aphorisms' masquerading as philosophy. You have obviously found the path YOU walk best in....but you sure do denigrate those who climb obscure paths into remote areas 'because they are there'. |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:09 PM (#3043260) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Philosophy triumphs over past and future evils...but temptation triumphs over philosophy! GfS |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:17 PM (#3043262) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Ed T "Don't get me wrong, I'm as potent as picante sauce - it's my wife who had the troubled womb. She was as impregnable as Hitler's bunker" Humble pie (2007). |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:22 PM (#3043266) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Ed T: ""Don't get me wrong, I'm as potent as picante sauce - it's my wife who had the troubled womb. She was as impregnable as Hitler's bunker" TURN HER OVER!!!! GfS |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:32 PM (#3043270) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Ed T But, what would Ake think? |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:34 PM (#3043273) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Maybe he's got his own..come to think of it, that 'adopted' child...he does resemble Ake a little..is Ake also your milkman?! GfS |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:34 PM (#3043274) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Bill D ....but temptation triumphs over philosophy! There's one of those aphorisms now! I wonder what it means? "The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water." ..John W. Gardner |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:36 PM (#3043279) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bill D; "There's one of those aphorisms now! I wonder what it means?" Figures! GfS |
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29 Nov 10 - 10:43 PM (#3043282) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Bill D I will apply my advanced analysis to this and allow as how 'temptation' is not something that philosophy contends with as a standard competition. I STILL wonder what it means. (I even wonder if the clever author knows exactly what he meant... ☺) |
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29 Nov 10 - 11:26 PM (#3043292) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Ed T Bill D It seems like Mr Gardner (Chance Gardner's brother possibly?) has been having trouble with his water works, and is all bound up 'cause he can't find a plumber. That's my take on it, anyway. |
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30 Nov 10 - 01:33 AM (#3043322) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Never trust the advice of a man in difficulties. GfS |
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30 Nov 10 - 12:38 PM (#3043640) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk I still dream of one day satisfying all your analytical and intellectual requirements, Bill, so that you will be totally content with what I have just said and not have to *sigh* wearily when you reply to it and point out where I have failed or fallen short! ;-) Bit of a slender hope, I admit, but I will keep trying. |
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30 Nov 10 - 06:46 PM (#3043902) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Bill D well....... gee......... I sorta doubt that 'satisfying' me is in the cards, since we approach things a bit differently, but I kinda feel obligated to present MY view of the issues, as well as the problems I see in others formulation. I have poked at you about 'generalizations' for 8-10 years. I don't really expect sudden change.... I just make the other view available...(You never can tell who might be reading this in 10 years) ;>) |
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30 Nov 10 - 06:52 PM (#3043906) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Bill D But...since you DID ask for more clarity.... **grin**..... |
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30 Nov 10 - 06:55 PM (#3043911) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: frogprince Wasn't Clarity Sonny and Cher's daugher, who changed his name to Clarence? |
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30 Nov 10 - 07:15 PM (#3043923) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Little Hawk I'm willing to bet that absolutely no one will be reading this in 10 years. Maybe not even in 10 days. ;-) |
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30 Nov 10 - 07:37 PM (#3043935) Subject: RE: BS: More clarity, please! From: Dave MacKenzie Nice beaver! |