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16 Dec 10 - 02:51 PM (#3054965) Subject: Melodeon Domination? From: Alan Day Do you think that the Melodeon has taken over the fiddle as the dominant Folk Dance Instrument ? This discussion came about from the recent BBC4 "Still Dancing after all these years " where most of the Morris and Rapper sides were led by melodeon's whereas most of the archive clips showed fiddles as the dominant instrument. Al |
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17 Dec 10 - 03:39 AM (#3055362) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Tradsinger A few of us are trying to reinstall pipe and tabor into the Cotswold Morris psyche as that was THE instrument pre 1850, before the fiddle came in. I like the idea of dancing to a pipe and tabor as there is a nice starkness about the sound. However the truth is that melodeons are (relatively) easy to learn and play and they are actually ideal for morris as they give a body of sound and a volume that a fiddle or a pipe and tabor doesn't, especially in competition with traffic etc noise. I played melodeon for years for morris, and still do, but took up the pipe and tabor and the number of melodeons in our side (Gloucestershire Morris Men) proliferated. Another factor IMHO for the popularity of the instrument is that virtuoso musicians such as Tim Van Eyken, Andy Cutting and John Spiers (and others) have really pushed out the envelope on technique and have become role models for others to follow. I have no objection at all to melodeons in English folk dance music but still like to see the balance redressed whenever possible. Anyway, we mustn't be melodeonist on this. Melodeon players are sensitive human beings too, Well, a few of them are. Tradsinger |
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17 Dec 10 - 03:49 AM (#3055365) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: IanC I think this happened a long time ago and there is now a lot more variation in the instruments used. You shouldn't forget that the fiddle had, itself, taken over from other instruments, most notably the pipe & Tabor. One of the reasons for the growth in use - even the predominance - of the melodeon during the "revivalist" 50s and 60s and on is the popularity of the instrument amongst working people. I did an extrapolation based on a survey of a small Cambridgeshire village not known for its music and concluded that (if it was at all typical) there were probably 1.75 million to 2 million melodeon players, mostly playing for themselves or for very localised entertainment, during the 1930s/40s. This surprising figure is to some extent borne out by the huge number of melodeons from peoples' attics which continue to pour onto EBay. I think there was a large pool of talent and quite a few instruments out there at that time, and the instruments were easy to learn and cheap. :-) Ian |
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17 Dec 10 - 03:55 AM (#3055366) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Old Vermin Today - Witney Tomorrow - the world. |
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17 Dec 10 - 03:59 AM (#3055367) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: LesB We have mostly had a melodeon player as team musician (Sword Dancing) not by design but by availability of musicians. Musicians being prepared to commit to joining a dance side are hard to find around here. Also with a melodeon or concertina the sound projects well in an open space. With that in mind I suppose we should all dance to the Highland Pipes. Cheers Les |
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17 Dec 10 - 07:56 AM (#3055473) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: banjoman I recall being told by our local NW Clog side that they only wanted Traditional Instruments and that my banjo was not a Traditional Instrument. I pointed out that people were playing banjos and similar instruments long before Mr Wheatstone invented the concertina from which the melodeon was derived, mainly for Salvation Army bands. The melodeon is the last refuge of the musically incompetent and should only be played by consenting adults, in private. |
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17 Dec 10 - 08:01 AM (#3055475) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Acorn4 I know I've posted this before but it seems apt at this point especially after banjoman's comment:- The Melodeons are Coming! |
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17 Dec 10 - 08:06 AM (#3055481) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: The Sandman no. because there are many dance or ceilidh bands that have fiddles and piano accordians, yu cant make an overall judgement based on just morris and rapper |
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17 Dec 10 - 08:22 AM (#3055490) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,LDT Oy! Banjoman, outside. Now! :p As I'm a girl and wear glasses you can't hit me back. ;) (I says as a player of concertina, melodeon and recently taken up fiddle) |
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17 Dec 10 - 08:26 AM (#3055494) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: mikesamwild Nice song who wrote it so I can give it credit!? |
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17 Dec 10 - 08:33 AM (#3055499) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: mikesamwild I was at a concert by Andy Cutting the other week and he calls his a button accordion, it's gone well beyond a 'melodeon' as the Irish decided. When I was younger 'cat melodeon' was a derogatory term in Irish music circles ( although like everything the style has come round again as button accordion players got so slick as to be more divorced from the tradition) what gets me is how expensive some boxes are and how they are used for push/pull playing in the street, must wreck the bellows and reeds. |
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17 Dec 10 - 08:44 AM (#3055505) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: SteveMansfield I've occasionally thought about starting a similar thread - but my perception is that the [English] scene is currently flooded with fiddlers and that the melodeon / accordion is comparatively in decline! |
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17 Dec 10 - 08:46 AM (#3055506) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: mikesamwild That's just that Jon Boden and Sam Sweeney are in everything! Mind you they are great. |
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17 Dec 10 - 10:22 AM (#3055585) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: acegardener Piano accordians killed off the fiddle player years ago. Now melodeons are doing the same for PA'S. I wish I could play my concertina in the street, but it is a very expensive instrument to put up with the rigours of outdoor playing so the melodeon has to make do. It's just progression, Strebs or similar will be the future when they are readily availiable, then you will be dancing to complete orchestrial sounds. |
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17 Dec 10 - 11:08 AM (#3055621) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: treewind "Piano accordians killed off the fiddle player years ago." They didn't. Not permanently anyway. "Now melodeons are doing the same for PA'S." You say that like it's a bad thing "Strebs or similar will be the future when they are readily availiable" I hope not. Sfmans: "my perception is that the [English] scene is currently flooded with fiddlers and that the melodeon / accordion is comparatively in decline!" There a lots of fiddlers in increasing numbers, which is great, but I'm not sure about the decline in melodeons/accordions. Maybe I'm imagining it, but I've noticed a resurgence of piano accordions in a new generation of folk performers. I have also noticed, over the last two decades or so, many players of other instruments taking up the fiddle as a second instrument. The fiddle is my favourite instrument to have in large numbers in a session. Five fiddlers in a small session can be wonderful; five melodeons are bad news unless they are well played. |
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17 Dec 10 - 11:20 AM (#3055628) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,LDT And 100+ melodeons together is scary. ;) |
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17 Dec 10 - 11:41 AM (#3055647) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Lester Anahata said: Five fiddlers in a small session can be wonderful; five melodeons are bad news unless they are well played. I agree but think you should apply the "well played" caveat to the fiddles as well |
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17 Dec 10 - 11:43 AM (#3055650) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,LDT @Lester. Agreed. You wouldn't want five clones of me playing fiddle. Unless you wanted a headache and every cat in the neighbourhood to start meiowing in protest. |
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17 Dec 10 - 11:48 AM (#3055654) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: The Sandman melodeons here in ireland are single row, two row and three row instruments are called button accordions. |
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17 Dec 10 - 02:37 PM (#3055779) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: treewind Well, in case there was any confusion, I think we are mostly talking about the 2-row D-G instruments in D and G in the context of English music, when that is called a melodeon. Single row instruments are in a relative minority and not threatening domination, though they may come close to it at one of the East Anglian Traditional Music Trust's weekends... |
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17 Dec 10 - 04:15 PM (#3055852) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Fidjit Actually they are called "Diatonic Accordions" wanna make one Check it out Chas |
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17 Dec 10 - 04:32 PM (#3055862) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: TheSnail I occasionally do a count of instruments at the sessions here in Sussex. I fondly remember one occasion when, out of about twenty musicians, there were nine fiddlers. Generally, fiddles and concertinas of various sorts vie for top position followed by melodeons. There are usually one or two banjos. After that, mandolins, whistles, bouzoukis, guitars... are minority instruments. There are a couple of good accordian players in the area but they generally don't come to the sessions that I know. |
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18 Dec 10 - 03:56 AM (#3056190) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,FloraG I use my melodeon when I'm caling folk dances and playing for them. Its light weight and sufficiently loud to let the rest of the band hear without fold back. It really is ideal for that. None of my other instruments would work so well - the blowey things for obvious reasons, my small accordian runs out of notes and the fiddle is not so easy to use when talking into the mike. My mandolin is not loud enough, although I have thought of getting one with a built in pick up as the next best alternative. The melodeon has the drawback that I dont have many choices of keys or accidentals. I tend to stick to fairly simple tunes anyway as I am concentrating on what the dancers are doing rather than what I am playing. The rest of the band do clever accompanyments round the tune. I think it is for these reasons that the melodeon is likely to dominate folk dancing. FloraG |
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18 Dec 10 - 04:18 AM (#3056199) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Acorn4 Collective noun for melodeons = a "migraine". |
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18 Dec 10 - 05:18 AM (#3056234) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Mr Red how many melodeon players does it take to change a lightbulb? depend whether you are pushing or pulling........... I'll get my rag coat. |
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18 Dec 10 - 06:29 AM (#3056272) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Marje They may be called "diatonic accordions" in the US (and France), or "button accordions" in Ireland, and it's interesting to have this clarified, but the original poster made it clear that he was talking about English music and dance. In this context the instrument (most commonly a two-row) called a "melodeon", which is a useful way of distinguishing it from other accordions without having to use two words. That's what it's called here, whether used for morris or for social dance as part of a band. A melodeon has undeniable advantages as a dance instrument. It's got the capacity for melody, bass and rhythm all at once, and its soudn carreis well. Relative to the piano accordion, its compact size and punchy sound are often preferred by dancers (I'm still talking about England, not Scotland where the piano accordion, and even the piano, are far more prevalent than in England). This doesn't necessarily make it the ideal session instrument, as there is an optimum number of melodeons, beyond which the sound tends to become mushy and messy. Many melodeon players do play another instrument so that they can vary their contribution at a session. I switch to playing recorder (not very well, alas) at times, while other melodeon players I know also play whistle, pipes or clarinet, or simply drop out of certain tunes that don't suit their playing style. It's only really at festivals that I've seen the fearsome fifteen-or-more melodeon sessions. Marje |
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18 Dec 10 - 06:52 AM (#3056281) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: mikesamwild Has anyone heard Pete Coe's song about the sound of Hohner 'Hello Squeezebox my old friend, I've come to torture you again.' not what Simaon and g had in mind! |
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18 Dec 10 - 07:16 AM (#3056295) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Acorn4 Maybe it should be like the smokers - outdoors only! |
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18 Dec 10 - 07:27 AM (#3056300) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: G-Force Q: What's the difference between a melodeon and a piano accordion? A: Melodeons speed up. |
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18 Dec 10 - 09:17 AM (#3056361) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,FloraG I think in indoor sessions melodeons should act like most irish drum players - only one at most playing at a time- and sometimes none. Different when you are out doors with the morris. Its a courtesy thing. Same goes for most intruments. I dont play much bluegrass but I do like the way they play backing chords while each player in turn can play the tune or some variation of it. I don't think I could cope with that while calling dances - and this thread is about dance music. I'll stick with the melodeon for that. FloraG. |
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18 Dec 10 - 09:28 AM (#3056369) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: banjoman I once read that the only time a mute swan makes a sound is immediatly before it dies. Pity the same cannot be said for melodeons. |
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18 Dec 10 - 09:38 AM (#3056382) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Acorn4 I was sitting in a pub at a festival a few months back with a melodeon player opposite. We got into a conversation and he said:- "I could teach you to play one of these in 20 minutes". I believed him! |
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18 Dec 10 - 11:47 AM (#3056449) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Marje So did you try it, Acorn4? If I thought I could learn to play a new instrument in 20 minutes, I wouldn't be able to resist having a go. I'd feel very smug indeed if I actually managed it. I think the "only one melodeon" rule for a session is a bit extreme. If I start a session tune on my melodeon, I'm a bit gutted if no other melodeon player joins in, and they all just sit there. I'd say the optimum number is greater than one, but it does depend on the playing styles and capability of the players. Many people learn best by playing alongside others, perhaps very tentatively at first, while others learn a new tune by trying out just the melody, or just the bass, while they get the hang of it. Sometimes the chance to do these things together, learning from each other, is more important than getting the optimum overall sound, especially in very informal settings. Marje |
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18 Dec 10 - 11:58 AM (#3056459) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Bonzo3legs Simon Care can dance of course while playing squeezebox of whatever variety!!! |
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18 Dec 10 - 02:36 PM (#3056586) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: ollaimh i've watched morris dancers all dressed up like the dogs breakfast and as i highland scott i have to say youse guys have a lot of nerve making fun of us for wearing dresses. |
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18 Dec 10 - 02:47 PM (#3056600) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: WalkaboutsVerse Some English Dances and Instruments |
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19 Dec 10 - 04:29 AM (#3056977) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,FloraG marj I think you are right. It depends upon the size of the room and the nature of the session. When I first got my melodeon I found it very hard to play softly or to play anything other than the set tune. I would have had lots of hard looks if I had used it thus. It is a great instrument for playing outdoors - you can even play it under a cycle cape. FloraG |
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19 Dec 10 - 05:24 AM (#3057005) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: bubblyrat I like melodeons actually,but ---it can get irritating when one goes to a "festival", and several players in different adjacent tents / caravans start to "warm up" simultaneously ( all playing different tunes at different speeds,of course !). |
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19 Dec 10 - 06:04 AM (#3057033) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Alan Day On my first Saturday evening at Sidmouth many years ago, two lads played melodeons outside my tent at three in the morning and refused to shut up. On the Thursday evening at three o'clock I returned the compliment with my concertina outside their tent. I bet they never did it again. Al |
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19 Dec 10 - 06:07 AM (#3057034) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,LDT One of the reasons (apart from my valubles not being insured) that I don't camp in a tent at festivals is noise -whatever it is musical or otherwise- when I want to catch up on my beautysleep. |
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19 Dec 10 - 10:46 AM (#3057191) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Tootler The problem with melodeons in sessions (and piano accordions as well, for that matter) is the basses. If you have several of them all plugging away at their basses, then that's when it gets mushy and horrible, especially if they are all playing slightly different chords - which they often are. multiple melodeons are fine as long as only one is playing the basses at any time. If there is a guitarist in the room, then it's better if none are playing their basses. |
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19 Dec 10 - 01:54 PM (#3057314) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: The Sandman tootler, unless the guitarist is so bad that he needs the melodeon basses to put him in the right direction of the chord ,it happens and not infrequently |
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19 Dec 10 - 06:26 PM (#3057501) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Tootler Fair comment, Dick. On the other hand, I remember a session when there was a PA player who seemed totally unable to leave the basses alone. All through the session there was this um chuck um chuck going on which became irritating by the end as there was no variety in it. There was another PA player at the same session who came regularly and was very good. She used her basses sparingly and the result was they were much more effective. She would often only use her basses on the second or even third time through a tune so it made for variety on a repeat of the tune. I've also known melodeon players in sessions who only play their basses sparingly. Again, it's more effective. If you listen to the likes of Andy Cutting or Tim Van Eyken or Julian Sutton, you will find they have a great deal of variety in the use of basses which makes their playing interesting. It's different when playing for dancing as it the basses have a rhythmic function. |
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19 Dec 10 - 06:33 PM (#3057507) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Alan Day Also Tootler the players you mention do not play their instrument as if working out in a gym,they play with technique and skilful use of chords. Al |
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20 Dec 10 - 09:11 AM (#3057763) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: mikesamwild Guest FloraG Under a bike cape eh?, could get a chap run in I fear. |
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20 Dec 10 - 10:39 AM (#3057823) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Marje A bike cape is fine if you have one handy, but I have been known to play mine in a black bin liner. Fortunately Flora and I are both female, so less likely to attract suspicious glances as we fumble for our buttons beneath our outler layers. Marje |
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20 Dec 10 - 11:13 AM (#3057849) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,FloraG It is a flourescent yellow one mike. If you are going to do it do it proud. I used to play for one of the largest childrens morris sides and they enjoyed dancing in the rain. I think very few children ever go out in the rain these days - so it was always a great hoot to get soaked. We had a few Sweeps and Dickens festivals where the heavens opened. We danced in green and yellow. Where do you hold your melodeon Mike? Me - I have short straps. |
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20 Dec 10 - 12:41 PM (#3057894) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Fidjit Flora. Don't think Mike has a melodeon, Chas |
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20 Dec 10 - 01:54 PM (#3057934) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,FloraG I thought every consenting adult played the melodeon - but some don't admit to it. FloraG. |
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21 Dec 10 - 04:27 AM (#3058333) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST Is playing the melodeon like voting Conservative then? |
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21 Dec 10 - 04:34 AM (#3058336) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: IanC Appears to be. I'm getting a bit sick of the predictable crap to be honest. |
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21 Dec 10 - 04:51 AM (#3058341) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Lester Why don't we all agree that a well played |
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21 Dec 10 - 05:43 AM (#3058362) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Alan Day There is no doubt that the melodeon has moved on from the Hohner two row that you could buy in Bell's Accordions at Surbiton,The Italians first displayed some wonderful boxes in France many years ago and with a few extra notes and wonderful tone ,it has made the instrument far more versatile.It is easier to play than the Concertina and certainly louder than a fiddle, or pipe and tabor.North West Morris certainly is enhanced by a band that includes a melodeon. My original posting was not anti melodeons although there is always a tendency for a bit of banter when you mention them. Al |
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21 Dec 10 - 10:10 AM (#3058535) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Mr Red "only one melodeon" rule for a session is a bit extreme why not berate the melodeon? It gives real instruments some respite. Like the massed ranks of bodhrans - especially the red ones Ducks and runs for cover. |
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21 Dec 10 - 10:15 AM (#3058540) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,LDT Why pick on the melodeon and leave the concertina (when they are both squeezeboxes? I find the anglo concertina seems to get more 'reverence' than the melodeon when I take them out of their boxes. Don't understand that as I'm way better at melodeon than concertina. but then I do get family and friends run for cover when I take out the fiddle...now *that* should come with a free pair of earplugs. |
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21 Dec 10 - 10:30 AM (#3058550) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Acorn4 I must admit that it's not my favourite instrument but it came into it's own last night making a lot of noise at the "Don't axe Folkwaves" protest. They don't like it up 'em!!! |
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21 Dec 10 - 01:37 PM (#3058696) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,FloraG Heard a parody of little boxes at Cheltenham that went something like There's a concertina, a melodeon an accordian and a button box and the're all made out of ticky tacky and they all sound just the same and they all go down to Sidmouth, to Broadstairs and to whitby and they all learn a little french tune and it all sounds just the same etc. I've been watching the highland sessions on BBC 4 recently and my new year resolution will be to play less but to try to play cleverer. It will probably last till at least jan 2nd, especially now our new year do has been canceled because of the weather. All the seasons best FloraG |
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21 Dec 10 - 05:38 PM (#3058899) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: GUEST,Lindsay Doyle The pipe and tabor can be much louder than a melodeon, I know. Mine can be heard a mile away on a clear morning |
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21 Dec 10 - 05:43 PM (#3058906) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: The Sandman and the bombarde is louder still ,it is aptly named, it bombards the ear with a cacophonious racket and can be heard two miles away on a clear morning, na na na na my bombarde is louder than your pipe and tabor |
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21 Dec 10 - 06:28 PM (#3058937) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: Alan Day I am certain that my time with Rosbif ,French Bagpipes,Bombards plus my constant own concertina battering go a long way towards my hearing problems now days. Al |
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21 Dec 10 - 06:34 PM (#3058940) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: The Sandman dont worry Al, I am only joking.English Concertina the epitome of the Edwardian Effete Englishman is still my choice .here it ishttp://www.dickmiles.com |
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22 Dec 10 - 09:46 AM (#3059279) Subject: RE: Melodeon Domination? From: John P Uh, don't people play whatever instrument they want to, and other people listen to whatever instruments they like? Why should the balance of instruments matter? |