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27 Dec 10 - 08:49 PM (#3062284) Subject: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Just heard this from friends in Boston......any truth in the rumour? I always thought she would have a run, but supposed she would leave it a bit later.....hmmmm.
-Joe Offer- |
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27 Dec 10 - 08:53 PM (#3062286) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Stilly River Sage You're listening to the wishful thinking of tea party Republicans, I'm sure. |
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27 Dec 10 - 09:03 PM (#3062291) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton No, they are Scots living in Boston. |
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27 Dec 10 - 09:08 PM (#3062297) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: katlaughing Well, she and President Obama are still tops with people contacted for an opinion HERE. |
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27 Dec 10 - 09:15 PM (#3062299) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Well Kat, maybe the result of that poll could be said to make it more likely that she "jump ship", especially if she has decided to sprint for 2012. |
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27 Dec 10 - 09:18 PM (#3062300) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Hope folks dont call her a "Quitter" like Sarah :0) |
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27 Dec 10 - 09:20 PM (#3062303) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Stilly River Sage You wish people can call her a quitter like Sarah. Let's be clear, here. You didn't start this thread out of interest in Hillary, you started it as a way to start another political squabble. |
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27 Dec 10 - 09:29 PM (#3062304) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton No, but it does tie in with my theory that taking Bill n' Hill on board was one of Mr Obama's biggest mistakes. I am just asking if this story I received from two Boston professionals with no axe to grind is true. I was only joking about the quitter, you Democrats are too politically aware to misconstrue the actions of a politician trying to place herself in position to attack....Hmm? |
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27 Dec 10 - 09:37 PM (#3062306) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Anyway I'm up too late, se if you can find anything out please. Good night all! |
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27 Dec 10 - 09:44 PM (#3062308) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Don Firth ". . . you Democrats . . . " or ". . . you liberals . . . " followed by some snotty remark. Typical! Don Firth |
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27 Dec 10 - 09:47 PM (#3062309) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Bobert No way... |
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28 Dec 10 - 05:16 AM (#3062412) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Who's this guy Richardson.....and what the fucks goin' on? If Hillary intended to run in 2012, I suppose now would be the time to do it...has see perhaps informed the string pullers of her intentions? Interesting. There again maybe its the "rumour mill" but to what end? I think H n' B might just be more popular than Mr O at this time? |
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28 Dec 10 - 08:45 AM (#3062491) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Greg F. WATCH THIS SPACE! COMING SOON: * 12 YEAR OLD ABDUCTED BY BUG-EYED ALIENS * THREE-HEADED COW BORN IN DULUTH GRAMMER SCHOOL etc. |
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28 Dec 10 - 09:50 AM (#3062519) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Is it that preposterous to consider the Clintons may be thinking of running in 2012....If so, why? In another 6 years Hillary will probably be too old, she is still very ambitious, Obama is very weak, she could possibly take back votes from independents etc, etc, I see no three headed cows, or aliens there. |
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28 Dec 10 - 09:54 AM (#3062521) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Charmion No, just some tiresome wishful thinking, or pot-stirring. |
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28 Dec 10 - 10:15 AM (#3062532) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton You guys amaze me, do you really have so little interest in what happens to yourselves or your country. Do you not think is is interesting to try to keep a little ahead of the game? Wishful thinking....I dont think so. I would like to see a real radical leading my country, as we struggle against the powers of darkness. Hypotheses can be interesting and instructive. |
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28 Dec 10 - 10:18 AM (#3062533) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Bobert Yes, Ake, it is "preposterous" to think of Hillary, Bill, or even Donald Duck runnin' for president in 2012... Okay, maybe the duck might run... Why??? 1. Obama is too popular with the Democratic voters... 2. Hillary would never want to be seen as doing anything that divides the Democratic Party... 3. She is a shoe in for 2016 if she wants it... 4. She lost last time to Obama... 5. She and Bill do have at least average intelligence... Don't know where you are comin' up with this stuff, Ake, but I'd suggest that the tin foil you got wrapped around yer head don't work... lol... B~ |
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28 Dec 10 - 10:58 AM (#3062549) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: GUEST,999 Wasn`t the world gonna end in 2012? Is this a harbinger? Stay tuned . . . |
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28 Dec 10 - 11:15 AM (#3062558) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Some "helpful clone" has deleted my GUEST post of 10:13AM although it was followed immediately by my post of 10:15AM. Both posts were on the board at 10:16. Could someone please retrieve it. |
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28 Dec 10 - 11:36 AM (#3062570) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Ebbie My post from last night evidently didn't take. What I said, substantially, was that last week Secretary Clinton said that she thinks that her current post of Secretary of State will be her last public position. For the record and in my opinion, she has been a GREAT Secretary of State. |
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28 Dec 10 - 11:44 AM (#3062576) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Bobert 1 Mr Obama's popularity is dropping like a stone and the worse effects of the melt down have not been felt yet. 2 The Party is already divided over Mr Obama's deals on taxation and loss of electoral support, it might be said that Mrs Clinton could "heal" the Party. 3 She will arguably be to old or infirm in 2016 4 Last time Mr Obama was the new broom who was about to effect great change...this time he is an ineffectual bumbler with feet of clay. 5 Ambition trumps intelligence in political circles. All this is of course hypothetical, as no one is making any serious attempt to discuss the possibilities or even the validity of the story....Ake |
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28 Dec 10 - 11:46 AM (#3062579) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Little Hawk It's always been an intriguing possibility to speculate about (when Hillary might make her decisive move). I think it depends on how electable Obama apppears to be going into 2012. Lyndon Johnson bowed out toward the end of his first term, because he knew he couldn't win next time, and the Democrats decided to go with Hubert Humphrey instead...not a terribly inspired choice! Humphrey couldn't win either. Bobby Kennedy could have won, but he got shot. I think it's quite possible that the Democratic party bosses might persuade Obama to bow out and run Hillary instead...but I am making NO predictions. ;-) So, don't harass me about it, okay, Obama fans? I'm simply speculating on possibilities. There is no target here for you to hurl your outrage at. ;-) Nothing to see here. Just keep moving on, please. Nothing to foam at the mouth over here. The next brilliant strategic psychological move the Democrats could make to motivate progressive independents to all get out and vote Democratic is to run a female candidate for president! ;-) They've already pulled off the magic of electing the first "Black" president by summoning up progressive hopes, so the next obvious coup is to elect the first "female" president! Yessiree. And Hillary's perfect for that. Imagine the ecstasy of the moment! The tears flowing like rivers! The final vindication of all those years of fighting for gender equality in society! Whoah! It makes my head spin thinking about it. LOL! What a media moment!!!!!! It would be one hell of a night if Hillary got elected...just like it was when Obama got elected. BIG expectations would be raised! And what would happen afterward? The usual political BS would happen in Washington afterward, just like it always does, and the great Corporatocracy would roll remorselessly on, just like it always does, and life would get leaner and tougher for most Americans. It could happen in 2012. Or it could happen in 2016. We'll see. But Hillary's getting kind of old, so time is pressing. And there's one worrisome snag that could happen in that agenda too. What if the Republicans pre-empted that glorious symbolic progressive move right out from under the Democrats by running a female candidate of their own for president....Sarah Palin! She's younger than Hillary. She's got a lot of energy. She sounds good to a lot of Americans, and she looks good to a lot of Americans. She could do very well at the polls if they handled it right and if the timing was right. Again, I'm not making any predictions. Hell, no. ;-) Just discussing interesting possibilities. Just remember this: It's all smoke and mirrors anyway, whether or not you elect a woman or a Black or a fedora-wearing chimp with a tommy gun to sit in the White House and play "president" for the cameras. The big corporates rule. The president bounces around on the not-so-invisible strings that their lobbyists pull every day in Washington. $$$$ MONEY $$$$ |
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28 Dec 10 - 11:54 AM (#3062588) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Ebbie...Do you think there may be personal /health reasons behind the story? It is noticable that she has not been as visible on the international scene lately. There could of course be several reasons for that, like being reined in by Mr Obama, if he feels that she is about to get off the blocks. Seems strange that the Clintons should invest so much of their money in their fight against Mr Obama.....to just walk away when the prize is virtually presented to them? |
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28 Dec 10 - 11:58 AM (#3062590) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Oh! and as usual a brilliant definitive post from the president of mudcat "Little Hawk" |
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28 Dec 10 - 12:09 PM (#3062603) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Little Hawk By the way, I think Obama is an extraordinarily intelligent man...but curiously enough, although his calm and lucid intelligence delights intellectual types...thinkers....like many of us here on Mudcat, it does not work in his favor in dealing with Congress (because Congress is utterly corrupt and ruthless and couldn't care less to listen to an intelligent man who is on the other side of any issue) and it does not work in his favor in dealing with most of the American public, because most of the American public doesn't have the patience or the attention span to relate to anything except the crudest and most primitive appeals to their emotions. A cerebral, intelligent speaker is at a great disadvantage before the American public, unless he also has a gift for pandering to crude emotional knee-jerk triggers that will get people all worked up...but not require them to think. The American public is actually suspicious of intelligent and calmly spoken people. They are not trusted by the majority. You know who the majority trusts? Some blowhard who raves on and gets them all emotionally worked up over something, that's what. A demagogue. A rabble-rouser. Obama's way too calm for most Americans. He's too sober. He's too thoughtful. He's too analytical. That is interpreted as being "weak" by the average American. Now, those calm and cerebral qualities naturally make him beloved on a forum of folkies who are now in their 50s, 60s, and 70s....but they do not work well with mainstream America. And that is part of what is crippling Obama's term in office, in my opinion. He's simply too smart for the American public. They don't trust or relate to people like that. They relate to emotional actors like Ronald Reagan or Sarah Palin...people who deliver braindead, utterly simplistic appeals to their emotions, their fears, their patriotism, and various other feelgood nonsense that we've all heard about a billion times by now. And none of it means anything...but it SOUNDS like what the people want to hear. It makes them feel the way they want to feel. It is the candidate who can harness feeling most effectively who gets elected. Obama did that very well during the 2008 election. He has not done it very well since being elected, though. If and when someone comes along who can do it better, then that someone will replace Obama. |
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28 Dec 10 - 12:27 PM (#3062614) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Bobert I think it's time to dispel this notion that Congress is this corrupt place void of intelligence... There are plenty of very sharp, intellectually curious and motivated people there... It's just that they don't get any (like zilch, zero, nada) microphone time except on MSNBC... Other than that these people are blackballed from mainstream media... If that were to change then so would the public's misconceptions and would also allow Congress to work better... I mean, only bad behavior by boorish people get any real coverage... B~ |
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28 Dec 10 - 12:41 PM (#3062626) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Little Hawk Yes, there are some bright people such as you allude to in Congress, Bobert. But what effect do they have on the national agenda? They are, as you say, blackballed from mainstream media. They are just a few voices crying out in a wilderness. That means that the general public is barely even conscious of them or what they stand for. That puts the power in the hands of those whom the corporate-owned media decide to pay attention to, doesn't it? And therein lies the problem. I do believe that the Congress is mostly corrupt, and that it's mostly been bought. But the bigger problem may be that the general American public have been turned, by their own mass media, into a flock of ignorant and programmed sheep suffering from what amounts to attention-deficit disorder (ADD). How can you reach a public that has been lobotomized? How can you release a prisoner who isn't even aware that he IS a prisoner, and who participates willingly and unconsciously in enabling his own incarceration? |
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28 Dec 10 - 01:05 PM (#3062654) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Bobert Interesting that you asked, LH, 'cause there is a major push being made to use twitter, email, blogs and email by the progressive movement and an excellent story in the Washington Post today written by Krissah Thompson entitled "Activist groups take full advantage of new outlets to spread message"... And, for the record, there are alot more than just a few progressives in Congress... B~ |
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28 Dec 10 - 01:06 PM (#3062655) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton That's the game and the problem Hawk, both sets of protagonists believe only the other side has been lobotomised. The walking brain dead are as prevalent on the left as on the right...perhaps more so, as the right at least recognise the motivations of their own ideology....On the other hand, nobody really believes our ideology....but we believe its good for everybody else! :0) |
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28 Dec 10 - 02:11 PM (#3062701) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth The Tea Party makes a gawdawful amount of racket for a bunch of people with the collective I.Q. of a newt. And all too many liberals (and God knows, Democrats) have their heads up where the sun doesn't shine. But there is another loose-knit organization that came into existence recently, initially as a reaction to the Tea Party. But— As people who are concerned about the direction in which the country is going began making contact with each other (initially through the internet), it has been growing under the radar at a prodigious rate. Gatherings in private homes all over the country. More and more all the time, springing up like mushrooms. These are gatherings of intelligent, thoughtful people. (FAR from "brain dead.") When I first heard of this movement a few months ago, I was astounded to discover that there were gatherings, not just all over the country, but all over the city in which I live, three within a ten block walk of where I live. One person can make a huge difference, for example, the woman who took the initiative: CLICKY. Don Firth |
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28 Dec 10 - 02:25 PM (#3062709) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth MORE. Don Firth |
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28 Dec 10 - 02:42 PM (#3062718) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Ebbie "Ebbie...Do you think there may be personal /health reasons behind the story? It is noticable that she has not been as visible on the international scene lately. "There could of course be several reasons for that, like being reined in by Mr Obama, if he feels that she is about to get off the blocks." ake It beats the heck out of me how anyone- whether it be ake or Little Hawk or Joe Blow- can presume that their intelligence and their analytical skills surpass those of others who have an actual track record in intelligent analysis. I'm sure there are people in Congress and in American government generally who practically despair at some of their countrymen's obliviousness and their willingness to be swayed by the windy ones but there are also people in those high places who know there are many, many aware, alert, focused and effectual people in the country and keep a steady hand on the course and know they - and we - can come out on the other side. Life rarely presents one test and it's over. It is far more often a hodge podge of events one meets on the road. In the meantime, I am not impressed with shallow, cynical discourses on people in government and on Main Street - frankly, my dears, they actually know very little of what they speak. Keep your analysis to two generations ago. You have a much better grasp of that history and will have a much better chance of being correct. |
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28 Dec 10 - 02:49 PM (#3062720) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Exactly, Eb... Seems it's easier for some folks to sing old songs than learn new ones... And beyond that, this bashing of anyone connected with the government is nuthin' but parroting right wing talking points... B~ |
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28 Dec 10 - 02:50 PM (#3062721) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: GUEST,Silas "Struggle against the powers of darkness"? Hmmmm......... |
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28 Dec 10 - 03:32 PM (#3062744) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: akenaton In short Ebbie....you dont know....and you dont care! Well thats a point of view I suppose. "Struggle against the powers of darkness"? Hmmmm......... Fascist policies?.....go back to sleep! Don Your people have a problem with "the message" The right can inspire with their message "We are our country, we are the real Americans ,Freedom, self reliance,family values, less govt. The left's message is "whine till we get our rights, let govt think for us, I'm human so I deserve as much as the next guy whether I contribute or not, never question the system because it pays our benefits and fills our bellies. All that was wrong with left totalitarianism....without any of the benefits like education and healthcare. To go forward we need to unite against the system not fight those who still have some spirit and guts left....we'll sure need them. |
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28 Dec 10 - 03:38 PM (#3062748) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Tell us what the left's message is, Ake??? Yeah, I'll be real interested in yer response to this seein' as the left has no access to the microphone so all we get is what the right wing defines us as... Yeah, what is it that we believe in??? This oughtta be real interesting... B~ |
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28 Dec 10 - 03:58 PM (#3062777) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bee-dubya-ell If Hillary resigns, it will be to take Biden's place as VP, not to challenge Obama. Obama/Clinton should have been the ticket in 2008, but there was too much animosity left over from the primary. Now that Hillary and Obama are pals again, don't be surprised if Obama asks Biden to step aside and let Hillary shoot for a term as VP before she runs for Prez in 2016. |
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28 Dec 10 - 04:03 PM (#3062782) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert I agree, Beezer... They said that would be the "Dream Team" last time but all was not well between the Obama and the Clinton camps... They have now made nicey-nice and I think the country is ready for the" Dream Team" in 2012... Heck, I might even forgive Obama fir cavin' on taxes and knock on a door or two... Nah... B~ |
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28 Dec 10 - 04:08 PM (#3062785) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk That's another interesting possibility, Bee-dub. I think it would be contingent on Obama's estimated chances of victory against the Republicans in 2012. |
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28 Dec 10 - 04:13 PM (#3062791) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: gnu Hilary in 16. Cool! |
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28 Dec 10 - 04:38 PM (#3062808) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: GUEST "Don, Your people have a problem with 'the message'." Ake, you don't know from Shinola about "my people," so why are you even commenting? Oh, of course! Blathering on about things regarding which you are totally ignorant is what you do. You know NOTHING about the Coffee Party. Why don't you try to learn something about it before you start sounding off? Don Firth (Using a different computer at the moment.) |
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28 Dec 10 - 04:44 PM (#3062811) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Or the "No-Labels" movement, fir that matter... |
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28 Dec 10 - 04:45 PM (#3062812) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: akenaton You did provide links Don? |
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28 Dec 10 - 04:46 PM (#3062814) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk Chongo wants to know if there is a Whisky Party formed yet? If so, he will join it. If not, he's willing to launch it. |
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28 Dec 10 - 04:57 PM (#3062823) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: GUEST,999 `The Tea Party makes a gawdawful amount of racket for a bunch of people with the collective I.Q. of a newt.` Sirrah: You insult newts! |
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28 Dec 10 - 05:07 PM (#3062834) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: akenaton Are you the spokesnewt 999! :0) PM you soon B, still digesting,thanks, brilliant. A. |
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28 Dec 10 - 05:53 PM (#3062875) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk Newts want respect too, you know. |
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28 Dec 10 - 08:43 PM (#3062980) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Yes, Ake, I provided links. Obviously, you either didn't read them, or if you read them, you didn't understand them. The people involved in the Coffee Party are quite varied in their positions, but they tend to lean to the progressive, and they are ALL dedicated to calm, rational discussion. AND, they are all well-educated and very up on what's going on in the country. And the world. One of the things they are very much in agreement about (which you would have picked up on if you had actually read the links) is a deep concern about how "buyable" the government is and who's doing the buying. And they are not happy about it. Anthropologist Margaret Mead once said, "A small group of people can make a difference. In fact, that is the only thing that ever has made a difference." I'm not as pessimistic as you are. Nor am I as eager for bloody revolution. It can be done without having to resort to that. I knew a fair number of people back in the Sixties who were on the extreme left. They would sit around together in the back room of the Blue Moon Tavern, they would talk just like you and Little Hawk, and they would tolerate no discussion of any possible solution except bloody revolution. They positively salivated at the prospect. Of course when the first shots rang out they would be cowering under the tables. Don Firth P. S. I do tender my sincere apology to all newts everywhere. |
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28 Dec 10 - 08:59 PM (#3062987) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Okay, where did this bit of gossip about Hillary Clinton resigning as Secretary of State get started? Julian Assange, founder of WikiLeaks made the following statement: "She should resign if it can be shown that she was responsible for ordering US diplomatic figures to engage in espionage in the United Nations, in violation of the international covenants to which the US has signed up. Yes, she should resign over that." There's a big "IF" in there. But that, of course, doesn't stop the screech-freaks and the crystal-ball gazing speculators from picking up on it, claiming it as fact, and turning it into the Battle of Armageddon. National Enquirer stuff. Don Firth |
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28 Dec 10 - 09:06 PM (#3062990) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Give up, Don.... After Ake posted that the left were a bunch of whiners I challenged him to define what the left actually believes... Still waiting... And probably will be for years to come... I mean, I like Ake but he really is into the old songs... Not too much into the hear and now... Kinda fightin' the last war... B~ |
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28 Dec 10 - 10:31 PM (#3063025) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Yeah, Bobert. Back table of the Blue Moon Tavern. Heard it all before. Don Firth |
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28 Dec 10 - 11:05 PM (#3063038) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: open mike equal time for salamanders and jerrymanders and other amphibians... |
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29 Dec 10 - 12:01 AM (#3063056) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk The revolution I propose is not a bloody one, Don. I propose the mobilization of millions of people in a peaceful, nonviolent revolution, rather like what brought down the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact in 1989. There was only one place where it turned bloody... in Romania. It is possible to make a peaceful revolution if enough people mobilize spontaneouly in the streets and demand change, and if they have the will to hold firm in their resolve, and if the will of the government security forces is shaken so badly that many of them join those people. It can happen, and it has happened in some places. I do not recommend a bloody revolution. Nor shall I ever recommend launching a war against anyone either. I do not wish to see any blood shed by anyone...so do NOT suggest that I am salivating for anything of the sort. Absolutely not! |
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29 Dec 10 - 01:00 AM (#3063065) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth I wasn't really including you in the "bloody revolution" bit, Little Hawk. But judging from many of the things you've said regarding the way things work in the United States (most of which I agree with you about), you do sound rather defeatist. Maybe not, but it sounds that way. The Coffee Party folks are fully aware of the situation. And the fact that it's pretty dire. But--they're not defeatist about it. They're convinced that something can be done about it. And they're setting about doing it, with some intelligent planning. I find that preferable. Don Firth P. S. Now watch how long it takes for you-know-who to tell me I'm naive, idealistic, and especially unrealistic. |
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29 Dec 10 - 01:36 AM (#3063071) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk What you describe the Coffee Party people doing sounds very good to me, Don, and I wish you the best of luck. I can't be defeatist about the USA, because I'm not myself a part OF the USA. I am viewing the situation from outside your borders, and I consider the present ruling order in the USA to be the enemy of not only their own people, but in a sense...of the entire world. I view the USA rather like someone in France or England in the mid-30's might have viewed the formative years of Nazi Germany (though I'm not suggesting that the USA has gone quite that far down the road to perdition yet...but the tendencies to do so are there quite strongly). There were progressive forces in Nazi Germany who resisted the Nazis too, both before and after Hitler's rise to power, and they deserved support from outside Germany. I support any Americans who resist the corrupt corporate order they are presently under. I don't recommend that they resist that order through violence, though, I recommend that they resist it through peaceful and positive social, political, and individual action. You see, I want to see the present ruling forces in your country defeated....but not through violence! I want to see them defeated through people becoming aware of the real situation and not passively supporting them any longer, not buying into the wars they sell and the divisions they promote. I want to see people wake up. The defeat of the present corrupt order that rules America (I'm not referring to Mr Obama when I say that) would not be a defeat for the people of America, Don...it would be a victory for the people of America and for the world. My feeling is that the present system Americans are under will inevitably bring itself down...by bankrupting itself. That will be very hard on people, not just in the USA, but all over the world. I'm sorry to see it happen that way. I imagine if I'd been witnessing the fall of the Roman Empire, I'd have been sorry to see that happen that way too...but it did inevitably happen. It always happens when an empire simply goes too far in its ambitions and spends too much on war, and the American empire has, in my opinion, gone too far. I await its fall, but I do not wish violence on anyone. Something else will rise out of whatever change occurs. Something always does. Rather like the phoenix...societies are born again. |
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29 Dec 10 - 02:04 AM (#3063081) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Then, Little Hawk, I'd say we're pretty much in agreement. From what I've seen and read of the folks in the Coffee Party (a very informal group of intelligent, educated, and concerned citizens--not a "political party" as such, but there are a lot of them, and they're growing in numbers), I find I am a lot more optimistic than I have been in awhile. Among other things, they're looking at other historically peaceful countries around the world where there is not that ridiculously huge a spread between the wealthy and the not-so-wealthy, with good, working social programs, and with a populace that is happy and contented (and there are a fair number of them, so it's not some idealistic but impossible dream) to see how they manage it. As Bobert says, "It ain't rocket surgery." Don Firth |
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29 Dec 10 - 02:30 AM (#3063086) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk Excellent! As I say, I wish you good luck in bringing about reform. There are definitely feasible ways of doing it. |
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30 Dec 10 - 12:15 AM (#3063617) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Weren't the folks who got to the lifeboats earliest, had the best chance to survive, April 14, 1912???? GfS |
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30 Dec 10 - 12:45 AM (#3063624) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Where are you planning to emigrate, GfS? Don Firth |
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30 Dec 10 - 02:14 AM (#3063642) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Froth: "Where are you planning to emigrate, GfS?" Rolls eyes....Jeeez! GfS |
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30 Dec 10 - 11:31 AM (#3063839) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Ebbie I'm house sitting these days, with access to television. Yesterday there was a show on 'No Labels', with a host and four panelists. The panel consisted of David Gergen, Joe Manchin, Joe Scarborough and Evan Bayh. As I intimated above, there are people out there - clear thinking, aware, focused, pragmatic - who give me hope. Incidentally, I had not heard of him before and I haven't looked him up yet, but Joe Manchin is impressive. |
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30 Dec 10 - 11:59 AM (#3063862) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk I know a number of Americans who emigrated to Canada (mostly in the late 60s, early 70s) and none of them have regretted it. |
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30 Dec 10 - 01:49 PM (#3063946) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Thought about it a few times myself, Little Hawk. I've visited Vancouver, B.C. (a couple hours' drive north of Seattle) dozens of times. Nice city. Nice people. Lots of folk singing going on. If push comes to shove here, then. . . . Don Firth P.S. You think the country's going to hell, GfS, and you have no contingency plans? (The only "froth" around here is between your ears.) |
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30 Dec 10 - 02:11 PM (#3063957) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity ..and if you think that this country is going to hell in a hand basket, and the effects of that will stop at the border, then you are loopier than I originally thought! Jeez, the more radical 'liberal' they think they are, but are really not, the more asinine they get!!! Then they fancy themselves as a 'liberal activist', and think it gives them license to act out totally bizarre in public!!!...but it 'feels good'..... ......So does masturbation...but that doesn't mean you should do it in public! Have a calm day,(Take your meds) GfS |
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30 Dec 10 - 02:36 PM (#3063972) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert That's purdy funny, GfinS... BTW, where are all these "liberal activists"??? B~ |
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30 Dec 10 - 02:43 PM (#3063977) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Jeez, GfS, put a cork in it! More and more, you're coming on like the south end of a northbound horse. Don Firth |
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30 Dec 10 - 03:55 PM (#3064015) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert That's purdy funny, too, Don... Yeah, GfinS has been a tad on the cranky side of late... I think it's "horror"mones myself... I donno??? B~ |
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30 Dec 10 - 04:18 PM (#3064033) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Well Bobert, It sounds like you're having a fun time!! Too bad there's snow on the ground.....but at least you really won't be able to see the stuff you won't be mowing!! Wink, GfS |
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30 Dec 10 - 05:30 PM (#3064082) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Waht??? Ya' mean to tell me that ya' don't have to mow with several inches of snow on the ground??? Sheet fire, Gf-ser... Wished you tolt me that earlier... Woulda saved me a gallon of gas and alot of havin' to get off the mower and push it outta snow banks... Grrrrrrr.... B~ |
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30 Dec 10 - 05:32 PM (#3064087) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""The Tea Party makes a gawdawful amount of racket for a bunch of people with the collective I.Q. of a newt."" And what have newts ever done to you, that you treat them so unfairly? If it weren't for newts I'd have nothing with which to compare my state of inebriation. I can't see myself saying "I'm as pissed as a teabagger!" It just doesn't have the same ring to it. Don T. |
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30 Dec 10 - 05:34 PM (#3064091) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk Newts may not be terribly smart, but at least they are inoffensive. Let's hear it for Newts, I say! |
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30 Dec 10 - 07:42 PM (#3064159) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Newts rock!!! |
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31 Dec 10 - 06:06 PM (#3064688) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth I think Knute Rockne was football coach at Notre Dame many decades ago. As I recall, Pat O'Brian played him in a movie way back. Ronald Reagan (back when he was in his real profession as an actor) played "The Gipper." Is that one of Knute Rockne's grand kids playing the Geico gecko? Don Firth |
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31 Dec 10 - 06:18 PM (#3064690) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth 'Scuse me. That's Pat O'Brien. The movie was "Knute Rockne, All American" (1940). Don Firth |
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01 Jan 11 - 04:49 PM (#3065194) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Stringsinger Hillary, the secret admirer of Ayn Rand, the associate of Brownbeck and the infamous C Street "Family", as she masquerades as a liberal, would keep the U.S. in Afghanistan for many years. Hillary Hawk. |
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01 Jan 11 - 05:09 PM (#3065205) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk There are a great many politicians around now who masquerade as liberals. Tony Blair was a prime example. I think Obama is probably another one. Hillary? For sure! My impression is that they all receive their marching orders from the same set of corporate boardrooms. |
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01 Jan 11 - 05:11 PM (#3065208) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: olddude I would take Hillary Clinton in a fucking coma over anything out there right now. She is an amazing person both in politics and outside of politics and is a person who actually cares about this country. I speak from experience as someone who actually knows the lady instead of what people read in a rag magazine ... |
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01 Jan 11 - 05:18 PM (#3065211) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: akenaton Trouble is, you gotta take the full package. |
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01 Jan 11 - 05:28 PM (#3065215) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: akenaton You're the very guy to solve the problem oldude, if you are a pal of Hill n' Bill you must know what her plans are? Surely it cant be to spend more quality time with that old Lothario? She doesn't look the type! |
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01 Jan 11 - 05:45 PM (#3065226) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk I respect Hillary's ability, and I think she's a bright lady, olddude. What I fear is that her party is in the control of entrenched corporate forces who have an ongoing agenda that revolves around continued military spending and reckless military adventures around the world. Anyway, I think it is cool that you have personal acquaintance with her, and I must say I'd be delighted to know her personally and to hear firsthand what she had to say about things. |
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01 Jan 11 - 06:01 PM (#3065232) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: olddude My kid worked side by side with her in Washington DC for a year. I think if she would have been President a lot of things would be different but that is my opinion. I don't know what her and Bill are going to do .. That is a better kept secret than their daughters wedding. I also don't know what drives her to keep putting up with politics. She is way way too smart for it I think and they both deserve better. I don't think one person can change the Corporate politics this country has turned into or even make a difference anymore. Maybe it is just me being cynical but nothing changes no matter what party or who is in office. |
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01 Jan 11 - 06:18 PM (#3065245) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Mrrzy Teabagging has a funny visual, I'm sorry. And it's grammAr school, anyway. I'll ask my kith and kin in State... |
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01 Jan 11 - 06:36 PM (#3065257) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk "nothing changes no matter what party or who is in office" Yeah, that's the problem, olddude, and the same thing has been going on in Canada for some time. Voters here feel helpless to do a thing about it, and because of that fewer people are voting in each succeeding election. I still vote...not because I think it will change anything...it doesn't...but just so that no one can say I didn't. |
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01 Jan 11 - 06:55 PM (#3065266) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: olddude I should qualify my statement to say if she was pres some things maybe different, but I doubt she or anyone could do very much. I should not have said things would be different, they wouldn't be, nobody can fight the corporate wall street machines I think |
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01 Jan 11 - 07:12 PM (#3065275) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: akenaton One things sure, to beat the system, you dont want a Mr Obama fighting your corner, you want an egotistical populist ideologue. Do you know any? |
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01 Jan 11 - 07:30 PM (#3065291) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk Chongo!!! ;-) Oh, and maybe Ms Sarah too... |
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01 Jan 11 - 07:34 PM (#3065295) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: akenaton Who's Chongo "popular" with? Well there are a lot of monkeys on these threads!....:0) |
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01 Jan 11 - 07:44 PM (#3065298) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert The problem with the Chongz and the populist ideologues is that after you strip them off the noise there ain't nuthin' left... George W., case in point... B~ |
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01 Jan 11 - 09:15 PM (#3065329) Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Gee whiz, folks, let's all voluntarily march to the slave labor camps! Gawd, what a collection of defeatist wimps!! Don Firth |