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08 Sep 99 - 07:18 AM (#112393) Subject: Callino Casturame From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au I play a piece by William Byrd on the Keyboard called "Callino Casturame". I tried to figure out what that could mean with my imperfect knowledge of Latin and failed. I asked some people who were more adept at Latin and they were puzzled. Recently a girl from Ireland told me it was a corruption of a Gaelic phrase meaning "I am a (poor) girl by the river" and that it is the oldest written Irish song known. Does anyone know the phrase? and, in fact anything else about the song. I know I was a fool for not writing it down, so you don't have to tell me! Murray |
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08 Sep 99 - 10:04 AM (#112442) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: Ciaran Could it possibly be Cailin o Cois tSuire Me - I Am a Maiden of the River Suir There is reference to it at http://muse.mse.jhu.edu:8001/research/folkindex/kwframe.htm Good luck
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08 Sep 99 - 11:52 AM (#112479) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: Ciaran is correct. See about "Callino" here. Click |
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08 Sep 99 - 12:15 PM (#112484) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: Click for 3 Callinos |
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08 Sep 99 - 02:28 PM (#112532) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: Philippa technical assistance please: HOW CAN ONE PRINT-OUT THE ABOVE 3 CALLINOS (on A4)? I haven't got around to reading the long essay on one of the above links, but will do so. For the benefit of those who want a shorter intro. here is what I can offer from the top of my head : the tune name is indeed said to come from an Irish song Is Cailín ó Cois tSuire Mé; I am a girl from the banks of the River Suir (Co Tipperary). the original song, however, is lost. Shakespeare quoted the transliterated title in one of his plays. There is an English language song of that title. Mary O'Hara recorded the song and included the words in her book "A Song for Ireland". There are several versions of a Scottish Gaelic song with the title line variously rendered as Scots didn't make sense of the place-name "tSuir". I can probably get some more bibliographical info. the Scottish Gaelic versions. And I think an Irish folklorist had an article on the subject in "Éigse" |
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08 Sep 99 - 06:36 PM (#112599) Subject: Calen o custure me From: Philippa One version of the Scottish Gaelic "Chailin òig as Stiùramaiche" with English translation can be found in Colm O'Boyle, ed.; Meg Bateman, translator: "Gàir nan Clàrsach / The Harp's Cry" (1994). I also have photocopied pages of several other versions collected in the Western Isles (outer Hebrides) of Scotland, along with copious notes about the song's history. But unfortunately I don't have the bibliographic reference to show what book they were taken from. Possibly one of John Campbell's books. a waulking songs collection? I will try to check this out, but it may take time. From the afore-mentioned notes: "On 3/12/1908 Malcolm MacFarlane read a paper to the Gaelic Society of Inverness on 'Studies in Gaelic Music' in which the Irish origin of this song was discussed, including the possible identity of its refrain with the unintelligible words spoken by Pistol in Shakespeare's 'Henry V', "Calen O Custure Me". MacFarlane gave the Óranaiche version of the words accompanied by the Irish tune from A P Graves 'Irish Song Book'..." The articles in Éigse (journal of Irish studies) were by Gerard Murphy and Colm O Lochlainn. I only have second-hand knowledge of them. |
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09 Sep 99 - 07:38 AM (#112747) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au Thanks Ciarn and Phillipa. It seems better known than I thought. I suppose because I was reading literature by musicologists instead of Celtic experts (Celtologists?) Phillipa. How you print callinos depends upon what kind of programs you have. You need a program that manipulates JPEG files--or one that converts them to some other type file that you can manipulate. You can, download the files (how again depends on your browser--with netscape you click on the blue clicky thing above while holding down the "shift" key) and then look around for a way to manipulate the files. This will be different from yours; but, for example, on my system I would download the files. Then I have a program called "xv" that will allow me to adjust the size to fit A4 paper. I suspect your program that does the same job will have a different name, because I don't think "xv" is available for windows or Mac. Murray |
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09 Sep 99 - 06:37 PM (#112988) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: Alan Bruford in an article 'The Sea-Divided Gaels', Éigse Ceol Tíre: Irish Folk Music Studies, I, p. 4, 1973, gives "Callino" from the Wm. Ballet MS and four traditional tunes from the Outer Hebrides for the wauking song "Chailin òg nach stiùir thu mi?". He notes that Calum Macpharlain had twice printed the words in The Celtic Monthly (July 1896, July 1902) that had originally appeared in Sinclair's Oranaiche, 1879, using the tune from the Fitzwilliam Virginal MS (Byrd's), as the original tune for it had disappeared. As noticed at the first blue clicky thing above, the gibberish in Shakespeare's play was recognized as corrupt Gaelic by Edmund Malone in 1790. Bruford notes that Gerald Murphy announced the discovery in a 17th century manuscript of the song title "Cailín ó tSúire mé in Éigse, I 125 (1953). There are contributions on the subject of "Callino" by John Lorne Campbell and Colm O Lochlainn in Éigse, I 309, II 198, and II 204, but I don't have them, or the summary of these by Breandán Breathnach in Ceol II 4 (1966). Note that among the tune citations for Laurence Price's "The Famous Flower of Serving Men" (Child ballad #106) is "Summer Time", an English name for "Callino". Carrol Malone's "The Croppy Boy" (1845) is set to "Callino" in Colm O Lochlainn's More Irish Street Ballads, #41, 1965.
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11 Sep 99 - 02:37 AM (#113355) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: Murray on Saltspring Note that the Price ballad is directed to be sung to several different titles, one of which is "Summer Time", but this could belong to several tunes. Calino is the direction for a 17th century ballad, "A Pleasant Song made by a Souldier", which begins "In summer time when Phoebus raise" [printed in Roxburghe Ballads VI.284]. "The FF of SM" would fit Calino well, I admit, and Rimbault thought so as well in 1850 (Musical Illustrations of Bishop Percy's Reliques, from a manuscript of c. 1630). Bronson (Trad. Tunes of the Child Ballads) seems to have no opinion on this, pro or con.. |
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11 Sep 99 - 12:37 PM (#113424) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: "A Pleasant Song made by a Soldier" is 16th century. Stationers' Register entry in 1588 is noted at the 1st blue clicky thing above. 1st verse is with the tune at the 2nd blue clicky thing. |
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09 Dec 12 - 02:04 AM (#3449611) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: MGM·Lion A troll interference, now deleted, enables me to add to this old thread.~~ Pistol in Henry V replies to a French soldier, in his sort of canting French, 'Quality! Callino, castore me!'; which led Alfred Deller to include a beautiful song of that title on an old HMV album, 'Alfred Deller • Desmond Dupré – Shakespeare Songs And Lute Solos' [1955: repubd in US on Angel Records], of which my copy, as such will, appears to have gone down the Black Hole in this house which swallows the cream of my old vinyl collection! If anyone could lay hands on a copy, no doubt notes &c would provide further enlightenment. ~Michael~ A troll interference, now deleted, enables me to add to this old thread.~~ Pistol in Henry V replies to a French soldier, in his sort of canting French, 'Quality! Callino, castore me!'; which led Alfred Deller to include a beautiful song of that title on an old HMV album, 'Alfred Deller • Desmond Dupré – Shakespeare Songs And Lute Solos' [1955: repubd in US on Angel Records], of which my copy, as such will, appears to have gone down the Black Hole in this house which swallows the cream of my old vinyl collection! If anyone could lay hands on a copy, no doubt notes &c would provide further enlightenment. ~Michael~ |
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09 Dec 12 - 02:06 AM (#3449613) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: MGM·Lion Don't know how that happened ~ I only meant to say it once! ~M~ |
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09 Dec 12 - 03:00 AM (#3449622) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: MGM·Lion Found it on You Tube -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zs_N4IfHKg |
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09 Dec 12 - 03:04 AM (#3449624) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: MGM·Lion See also excellent note on You Tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvyYT_Ra8gM |
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10 Dec 12 - 06:31 PM (#3450290) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: ollaimh the click here feature doesn't work for me. i have been curious about that song for years, and wondered if it were gaelic and not latin. i wondered the same about the arthur stone, in cornwall. it talks about the ri(king) in gaelic but people usually just assume it is bad latin. it is aonly a partial relic. but could you post the web address for the "here" |
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10 Dec 12 - 06:46 PM (#3450297) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: Jeri One link is now here: http://www.mudcat.org/olson/viewpage.cfm?theurl=BMADD.html#SUMMER. It was on Bruce Olson's website, which is now archived at Mudcat. |
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11 Dec 12 - 01:40 AM (#3450395) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: MGM·Lion See too the youtube entry + note I refd 3 posts back. ~M~ |
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17 Apr 17 - 09:19 PM (#3850918) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: GUEST,keberoxu Those links from 8 September 1999 are quite useless now. But Jeri's link from 10 December 12 still works. |
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18 Apr 17 - 03:44 PM (#3851063) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: GUEST,John Moulden The Sept 8 1999 links were to the website of the late and erudite Bruce Olsen which was extinguished following his death. The materials were deemed so important that they have been archived at Mudcat (as above) and were, though I've not checked recently, also on the website of the Folklore Department at University of California at Fresno. |
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18 Apr 17 - 03:54 PM (#3851065) Subject: RE: Callino Casturame From: Helen I can't remember which song book I saw this in, some decades ago, but I always assumed the title was Italian. I'm surprised to see that it is in fact Irish. |
