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30 Mar 11 - 09:14 PM (#3125247) Subject: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Soldier boy Hello. Sorry if the title of this thread appears to be a bit down and negatory but from the standpoint of a UK folk scene fan I feel that in the current economic climate in the UK that I have to ask the question (and yet fear that you will answer in the affirmative!) - Have the good times gone? I worry that this year we will all notice a significant decline in attendance at the many Folk Festivals and happenings in the UK as people generally tighten their belts and commit to fewer events due to financial constraints. I am already aware of some of my key folk buddies who work in the public sector whose jobs are under 'review' and could possibly lose their jobs and therefore go to far fewer festivals than before. I do like the odd concert and stuff but admit to prefering "The Fringe" happenings at festivals around the UK with the glorious and often unplanned and magical sessions of folk music and song. Trouble is that many of my buddies who like the same,and like me, can't afford a full season ticket at festivals, yet add much to the atmosphere and colour of many festivals, will feel the pinch even more so this year and will increasingly trawl the streets in fewer numbers to find a session that has half a chance of taking off! And what about our American friends crossing the pond to visit our festivals and adding so much to our enjoyment, will they also be watching their dollars and be staying away? Please tell me that I worry too much and that it won't be so! PLEASE! God bless ya. Chris |
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31 Mar 11 - 07:52 AM (#3125423) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: McGrath of Harlow Might work the other way - people going to sessions rather than to concerts where you have to pay to get in. Musicians having to busk rather than get paid gigs. Hard times are rough on people trying to make a living, but they can also throw up some good music. |
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31 Mar 11 - 08:09 AM (#3125440) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: DMcG It may well be bad for festivals, as grants are cut and customers worry about affording the entrance and accommodation. But I think McGrath is right: other forms which don't have such steep costs are likely to blossom, such as locally based, small groups. Hard times have always been a good source for the creation of new songs and well. Remember, folk has been around during hard times for several centuries at least! |
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31 Mar 11 - 08:29 AM (#3125459) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,999 Song made famous by Merle Haggard close to 40 years ago. "Are the Good Times Really Over for Good" I wish a buck was still silver. It was back when the country was strong. Back before Elvis; before the Vietnam war came along. Before The Beatles and "Yesterday", When a man could still work, and still would. Is the best of the free life behind us now? Are the good times really over for good? Are we rolling down hill like a snowball headed for hell? With no kind of chance for the Flag or the Liberty bell. Wish a Ford and a Chevy, Could still last ten years, like they should. Is the best of the free life behind us now? Are the good times really over for good? I wish coke was still cola, And a joint was a bad place to be. And it was back before Nixon lied to us all on TV. Before microwave ovens, When a girl could still cook and still would. Is the best of the free life behind us now? Are the good times really over for good? Are we rolling down hill like a snowball headed for hell? With no kind of chance for the Flag or the Liberty bell. Wish a Ford and a Chevy, Could still last ten years, like they should. Is the best of the free life behind us now? Are the good times really over for good? Stop rolling down hill like a snowball headed for hell. Stand up for the Flag and let's all ring the Liberty bell. Let's make a Ford and a Chevy, Still last ten years, like they should. The best of the free life is still yet to come, The good times ain't over for good. I understand from a good friend that festivals were and are being killed off because of so many fringe events. Good for the local pup, but not for the festivals themselves. Things DO look tough all over, but the times have been tough before and here we all are. |
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31 Mar 11 - 08:30 AM (#3125461) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: FloraG I should like to think that times will be different rather than non existent. Increasingly, artists earn most of their money from live appearances rather than CD sales. Will that make them keener to get bookings - perhaps even willing to turn up at a session or 2 if booked for a festival. Will they perform for more modest fees? Will festival organisers use more local talent ( along with more locally sourced food). Will the local B AND B and camp sites consider their charges? We live in interesting times. |
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31 Mar 11 - 08:36 AM (#3125465) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,999 May you live in interesting times Meaning May you experience much upheaval and trouble in your life. The clear implication being that 'uninteresting times', of peace and tranquility, are more life-enhancing. Origin While purporting to be a blessing, this is in fact a curse. It is widely reported as being of ancient Chinese origin, but is just as likely to be of recent and western origin, although it seems to be intended to sound Chinese, in the 'Confucious he say' mould. The earliest citation that has yet come to light is in the opening remarks made by Frederic R. Coudert at the Proceedings of the Academy of Political Science, 1939, Some years ago, in 1936, I had to write to a very dear and honored friend of mine, who has since died, Sir Austen Chamberlain, brother of the present Prime Minister, and I concluded my letter with a rather banal remark, "that we were living in an interesting age." Evidently he read the whole letter, because by return mail he wrote to me and concluded as follows: "Many years ago, I learned from one of our diplomats in China that one of the principal Chinese curses heaped upon an enemy is, 'May you live in an interesting age.'" "Surely", he said, "no age has been more fraught with insecurity than our own present time." That was three years ago. Chamberlain never visited China, but the mostly likely scenario for him to have been in contact with diplomats there would have been correspondence during his time as British Foreign Secretary, i.e. 1924-1929. We have the 1939 citation in print. If we are to believe Coulson's assertion then the phrase dates from at least 1936. If we trust in Chamberlain's memory, then we can push the origin back to pre-1929. As the the currently used 'interesting times' version, rather than the apparently earlier 'interesting age', we can only date that to post WWII. Hughe Knatchbull-Hugessen included the expression (with the obligatory 'Chinese curse' label) in Diplomat in Peace and War, 1949 Before I left England for China in 1936 a friend told me that there exists a Chinese curse - "May you live in interesting times". If so, our generation has certainly witnessed that curse's fulfilment. from www.phrases.org.uk › Phrase Dictionary - Meanings and Origins |
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31 Mar 11 - 08:39 AM (#3125470) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: terrier I rarely go to 'folk' clubs and 'folk' concerts don't inspire me one little bit. I detest open mike sessions,just can't see the point. The real music of the people to me happens when people just get together to sing and play ad hoc. No special stages, lights, mikes and no sitting in cold marquees sinking into the soft mud in a rainy Brit summer. I couldn't afford the festival ticket prices before the recession so now, if the organisers need to rethink their strategy, it can only be a good thing, as said in previous posts, maybe the depression is just the thing we need to re introduce us back to our roots and regain some of that basic enjoyment just to make music for the hell of it. Once the concert/festival scene finds its new level I'm sure everything will be back to normal. There will always be plenty of concert/festival goers to make a good fist of it and I certainly havn't seen any reduction in the number of sessions. I'm sure that most of us are a little reticent at the moment to jump in the car and drive as far to a gig as maybe we would have a few months ago, but as for the good times having gone, I'm being eternally optimistic. Today is a new day. I wonder how many organisers are hampered more by new rules and regs of the Nanny State than the present downturn in the economy? |
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31 Mar 11 - 08:57 AM (#3125478) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,glueman It's possible to enjoy performers with a high degree of musical accomplishment and a good old sing-song. They're different experiences but pleasurable in their own way. |
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31 Mar 11 - 09:08 AM (#3125481) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,VaTam Cost of festivals is why we are now looking into stewarding for reduced or free entry. Luckily, we really enjoy the stewarding bit. As to costs forcing us back to the more grassroots, off the cuff kind of self entertainment, it depends on who, when and where. As the local folking population ages, retires, dies it impacts on the impromptu and even planned clubs sings and sessions. As pub landlords seek the younger patron by putting in Sky Sports, karaoke, special reduced prices, they make it less desirable for the older punter who might sing or session at local pub. Fewer people have time to organise sing around, sessions, etc. Fewer are able to travel distances by car, bus. Yes I think the interesting times are here and it depresses me. |
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31 Mar 11 - 10:03 AM (#3125505) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: melodeonboy Well, I'm still having good times! My problem is that there's so much on that I don't have enough time to do it all, or enough hours to catch up on my sleep (yawn!)! |
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31 Mar 11 - 11:08 AM (#3125536) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe I'm not convinced there are enough folk fans in the UK for the number of festivals we have to be sustainable - and given the number of folkies who seem to work for the public sector, that might get worse as the cuts kick in and people start to lose their jobs (the cuts in the public sector will also undoubtedly impact on businesses that rely on government bodies for contracts, too - it's not just us lot in the frame). On the other hand, belt tightening might also mean staying at home and going to a few of the cheaper festivals rather than splashing out on a foreign holiday... People may think twice about spending so much money on gigs or CDs. Or think twice about spending money on something else. All these issues aren't specific to folk (other than the sheer number of festivals) but to all sorts of music - or at least that music that doesn't get hefty state subsidies! Specifically to folk, I can't imagine that local sessions and singarounds would particularly be affected, though. They only tend to cost the amount you spend on beer or your poison of choice for the evening. No idea about folk clubs, as I don't really go to them... I have to add (as a public sector person)... there are things that worry me a great deal more than the future of folk festivals right now though ;-) |
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31 Mar 11 - 12:14 PM (#3125574) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Mr Happy 'As pub landlords seek the younger patron by putting in Sky Sports, karaoke, special reduced prices, they make it less desirable for the older punter who might sing or session at local pub.' This has recently happened in a local long standing session venue - the place was full of well drunk young people fighting, vomiting, shouting, swearing, & other indescribable behaviour. Luckily the organiser has moved it to another place for tomorrows sesh. [The Brittania Inn, Halkyn, Nr. Wales] ******** Like others above, I'm not a festival/concert goer, other than to attend the spontaneous music & song fringe events. I don't feel regular fests really need to outlay large amounts of dosh for concerts & marquees when like at some existing fests, the concerts happen in local venues & you pay on the door |
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31 Mar 11 - 12:16 PM (#3125575) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: terrier Talking of pub sessions, we've just moved out of a pub that's had a session for about 14 years. The lord of the land has decided he'd rather have very loud music and drunken fights in the carpark.. and no doubt soon to have visits from the local constab.Still, there's plenty more places to have a sesh, in this case the next pub down the road (yes, despite the governments efforts there's still lots of pubs left open who will tolerate 'really' unplugged music). From: GUEST,glueman - PM Date: 31 Mar 11 - 08:57 AM It's possible to enjoy performers with a high degree of musical accomplishment and a good old sing-song. They're different experiences but pleasurable in their own way. I agree, it's just a shame that in many cases it's cost prohibitive. |
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31 Mar 11 - 12:17 PM (#3125579) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: terrier Oops! seem to have cross posted :) |
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31 Mar 11 - 12:18 PM (#3125581) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Seamus Kennedy I think it may be time for Conrad Bladey to weigh in.... |
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31 Mar 11 - 07:04 PM (#3125860) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,Alan Whittle Yes, all the good times have definitely gone forever. Mass hari kiri is the only answer. After you..... I mean really all this is absolute bumholes. Look at all the stuff we've got now. The internet with all its possibilities. Theamount and cheapness and availability of recorded material. Guitar tuners - so no more arguments with te biggest bastard in the group who reckons he's the only one in tune. Cheap good guitars. Nice little hard disc multi track machines - that cost less to buy than a day in a studio used to be. Its a fabulous time to be an acoustic musician - the only thing is , I wish i was 30 years younger cos its getting better all the time. the only thing we haven't got is our own radio stations and tv channel. But that's mainly because the most lauded music in our field is complete shite and wouldn't sell peanuts to monkeys in the way of sponsors. I seem to have seen more appalling folk club acts this year than i can remember ever seeing before - people who simply haven't done their apprenticeship and can't entertain for two 45 minute slots. We will sort ourselves out, but I have no idea of the corrective needed in an age when there simply aren't enough clubs for people to learn the requisite skills, and the punter can't just turn up confident of a good night any more. |
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01 Apr 11 - 05:55 AM (#3126078) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,glueman That is also true AW. Jon Boden's steam punk vision of everyone in their local having a blast because the oil has run out is a compelling one. Let's hope it comes about without any intervening messiness and carnage. |
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01 Apr 11 - 06:08 AM (#3126087) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) I agree, times have changed rather than ended. Some things will inevitably end - the active lives of many people currently involved in the folk scene, for instance. Will others take over from them in running clubs and festivals or will there be a new scene springing up elsewhere - in schools and colleges, for instance? Who knows. Lots of people have been wringing their hands over cuts in 'Arts' funding. I'm afraid I find much of this to be special pleading on the part of people who have vested interests on behalf of either themselves or their friends. Many people who control the allocation of funds and resources now are people who would have been involved in either theatre or music at university in the late 60s or early 70s. They are now in a position of some power and have public money available to put in the way of people they know or admire themselves - with the result that many artists have become accustomed to fees from publicly-funded bodies that folk clubs, for instance, can't match. Not that I'd turn down any of that work myself, of course. And it's quite correct that it is a great time to be an acoustic musician in terms of access to material. In the early 70s you had to put yourself about a bit if you wanted to hear a lot of traditional or folk music. Now you don't have to though you can miss out on a lot if you never leave the house. It's also much easier to source material as a performer. You don't have to go through archives or collections at Cecil Sharpe House, for instance. Indeed, I suspect there are a lot of performers around who have done nothing more strenuous than go through their parents' record collections - or got someone else to do it for them. I played at a folk club recently who said they were doing really well. They'd moved to a new venue a couple of years ago and were now regularly getting full houses, even for singers' nights. They used a small, unobtrusive PA that just took the level of sound about the sound of any background chatter and made it just that little bit easier to present your music. They didn't have loads of the organisers' mates doing floor spots (they saved that for singers' nights) so the overall standard of the evening was at least controlled. Many of the people there were people I'd also seen recently at other clubs where we'd been playing. It would be nice to think they'd turned out to see us but at the same time they are all clearly still passionately committed to the scene - which is something to be respected and applauded. I hadn't spent a lot of time in folk clubs for some years until recently but coming back on to the scene I've found it generally in much better shape than I would have expected. I don't think that the current economic situation is necessarily disastrous for folk music in the UK. It may engender a little more realism in terms of headline artists' fees and maybe even provoke promoters to give a chance to some other acts who maybe haven't received the Folk Roots/Radio 2/BBC Three seal of approval yet. It may also lead to some 'Arts' administrators having to demonstrate that they are providing value for money in terms of their salaries. Far too many of them seem to write their own job descriptions once ther are in post. A few P45s wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, especially if it means a few more Sure Start Nurseries are saved. |
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01 Apr 11 - 06:33 AM (#3126095) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Crane Driver The good times have ALWAYS gone. That's what folk music is about, isn't it? ;=} |
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01 Apr 11 - 08:21 AM (#3126149) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,Desi C It often happens in times of recession and depressions, and repressive vindictive government like our present one. That people turn back to the live and free music clubs. Personally I think many festivals have already priced themselves out of reach to the grass roots folk musicians and I for one won't miss them. But again I hope it means folk will return to the many free festivals around the country and town festivals where you can choose too see certain artists for a single ticket, and which often have open mic venues, which are increasingly disappearing from the big open air fests. In short, no the good times are not gone even though power hungry nobody's like Nick clegg would like that to be the case |
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01 Apr 11 - 08:38 AM (#3126159) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Will Fly I never go to folk festivals and I'm too busy gigging or playing to go a lot of folk clubs. I'm making more music than ever before (retirement helps) and spending very little other than some petrol and a bit of beer on it, plus buying strings from time to time. I play duets with that old geezer Alan Day; I have a buddy in Chichester who plays Dobro, Weissenborn and mandolin; I go out to sessions and singarounds and the very occasional open mic; I play in a ceilidh band and we're currently putting on our own local gigs. Making music isn't always about going to festivals - nor even sessions, clubs or singarounds - it's sometimes about getting off your arse and doing it: sing, play if you can, get together with like-minded souls. In short, the good times are what you make them. Looking at the price of many festivals, I just shake my head - particularly as I personally hate camping and dislike crowds. If you're into festivals, good luck - I wouldn't for a minute spoil your fun - but they're not the be-all and end-all of music for me. |
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01 Apr 11 - 08:38 AM (#3126160) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Musket All entertainment is changing, not just folk. Our local club struggles to get many in, and forking out for a guest would be a bad idea at present, so singarounds are, like most places, the most effective way of keeping people interested. When I was a teenager, everybody in my class would know what was No.1 in the charts. Now, computer games are the norm. World of Warcraft is today's Beatles it would seem. So no wonder all other aspects of entertainment are either changing or, as often as not, being perceived to be changing. Some of this is natural evolution. Pubs are disappearing at a fast rate of knots and the more I think about it, the more I would be less inclined to enjoy a singaround where there isn't a bar. It isn't alcohol addiction, (normally driving anyway) just my take on the whole experience. Methinks some of the reasoning on this thread is borne of nostalgia? |
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01 Apr 11 - 09:52 AM (#3126203) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: melodeonboy "All entertainment is changing, not just folk." A good point, Ian. I've been gigging regularly with my zydeco band for the last four years. Most of the venues that we play at are not folk venues; they are often venues where blues, rock and more mainstream bands play. Some of them have shut down; others have either stopped putting on bands or have reduced the number of gigs they're putting on. I have also attended a number of gigs where very good bands are playing to small audiences. Fortunately, we still have plenty of gigs, and there are music pubs that are still doing well, but it appears to me that more and more people are staying at home with their cheap supermarket lager and their wide-screen tellies. This unfortunate development will affect a range of social activities, not just folk music. The good news is that, in my area at least, there are still so many folk clubs/sessions and singarounds to go to. Basically, if you have a bit of initiative and keep yourself informed, there's plenty on offer. |
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01 Apr 11 - 10:13 AM (#3126211) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Rob Naylor I'm with Will on this (except for the camping...love it, but preferably wild camping, in the hills, away from crowds). As a recent returnee to folky stuff (well, it was really more folk-rock I was into as a teenager) and someone who's been trying to learn the guitar for a couple of years, I'm astonished as the sheer number of opportunities to get out and play, or listen, or play and listen, to a wide variety of music, "folky" and otherwise. I don't go to festivals either, and I actually find it a bit dispiriting that so many of the people I enjoy seeing live are tied up at festivals pretty continuously throughout the summer. I go to sessions, singarounds and open mics, all different in their own ways, from the half-dozen people who turn up at one local pub and have a very intimate session in the back room to an open mic night in another (not so local)that sometimes has 40+ people there, at least half of them playing/ singing. The best thing about this particular open mic is the jam session afterwards, which has been known to go on until 0200. While not pure folk, a lot of trad music is played there. Last week featured 3 astonishingly good female vocalists who could give anyone I've seen on TV lately a run for their money, but who were just tere singing for the sheer joy of it. Festivals to me are a bit of an irrelvance. As with pop/ rock/ indie festivals, they were probably OK when there was a very limited number around so that you could really make an event of attending one, but now, as with other types of festival, they've proliferated to such an extent, IMO, that it's not the economic climate that's leading to the demise of some, but the sheer "over-supply of the commodity". When there are several occasions this coming summer where 3 similar events are occurring on the same weekend within an hour's drive for me, it's unsurprising that they don't all flourish. |
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01 Apr 11 - 10:16 AM (#3126213) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,glueman Re. festival pricing, it's all relative. Our local festival Holmfirth is mostly free music and dance on the streets and in the pubs. Tickets for paying acts are very reasonable in most venues, or in line with normal concert prices for name, 'Show of Hands' type gigs. Shepley down the road is about £80 for a weekend. Saturday evening is £25 for four good acts including Bellowhead. I don't know how much it costs to keep B'head on the road but don't think it's cheap. Or I can watch 3rd tier league football for £23 a pop. |
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01 Apr 11 - 10:28 AM (#3126223) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Soldier boy So many very well considered and constructive contributions to my original posting here and far more than I expected. Thank you good folkie brothers and sisters, I'm starting to feel better already about the imminent and longer term future of 'folk'. Please keep your thoughts flowing. God bless ya. Chris |
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01 Apr 11 - 10:29 AM (#3126224) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Silas A few years ago, Upton did a DIY festival - a tenner for camping, a few pay to view/dance sessions and loads of pub sessions and sigarounds. It was brilliant, best Upto I had ever been to actually. So, there is scope for someone with a bit of time on their hands to organise one! |
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01 Apr 11 - 10:59 AM (#3126247) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: MGM·Lion "Song made famous by Merle Haggard close to 40 years ago" ···· ···· And, even earlier, "It was not so when Bess did reign And this old hat was new!" ~M~ |
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02 Apr 11 - 06:53 AM (#3126822) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Mr Happy Silas, Totally agree about the Upton DIY do some years back, best Upton I'd been to as well! Pity they didn't keep it that way |
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02 Apr 11 - 07:16 AM (#3126825) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: McGrath of Harlow <">May you live in interesting times That's always been seen and quoted as " Chinese curse" - a way of wishing bad luck on the recipient. Try googling it. Whether it's Chinese or not is another matter - but I think 999 is the only person I've ever come across who evidently understands it as intended the other way round. Of course there are often some good consequences of bad things, just as there are bad consequences of bad things, and it's worth looking out for them - but not making too much of them. |
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02 Apr 11 - 07:41 AM (#3126833) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: McGrath of Harlow May you live in interesting times That's always been seen and quoted as " Chinese curse" - a way of wishing bad luck on the recipient. Try googling it. Whether it's Chinese or not is another matter - but I think 999 is the only person I've ever come across who evidently understands it as intended the other way round. Of course there are often some good consequences of bad things, just as there are bad consequences of good things, and it's worth looking out for them - but not making too much of them. |
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02 Apr 11 - 08:15 AM (#3126842) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: GUEST,Desi C I take the point re big festivals, that you may get to see 3 or 4 top names/bands for the one price and when it's divided up etc. But I think that's misleading. Firstly week end tickets at major fests are now upwards of £80 on average, ok you can buy a one day ticket, but at Moseley fest for instance a one day ticket was almost £50, The Sat line up was excellent, topped by Donovan. but the Sunday had only one what i'd call a well known name, The Ukelele Orchestra, other acts were mainly relatively unknown local acts. Yet the cost was still nearly £50. Secondly many grass roots fans just can't afford one day prices let alone a full ticket. Thirdly I notice in recent years major festivals had no concession prices, thereby rulinng out students and those out of work or on low income, then they wonder why Folk isn't attracting enough young people.And finally while yes a week end or day ticket may enable you to see X number of good acts, most only do about 40 minutes max, and you may well have to sit, or stand! through several you don't like, drinking over priced beer, eating a 'veggie/far trade' burger you've been fleeced £6 for (why can't you get a bag of chips at many fests! in some muddy field. you can see an average of 16 good performers at our club any Wednesday night for free, but please buy a raffl ticket ;) Desi C The Circle Folk Club open mic every Wed Coseley Nr Dudley PLease mail me to be added to our free twice weekly newsletter on crc778@aol.com |
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02 Apr 11 - 08:21 AM (#3126846) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Silas Desi (Thanks for putting me on your mailing list btw) I have to take issue slightly. If you are only interested in the big names, then posiblya festival is not tyhe place for you. I love festivals not always fopr the big names, but to see up and coming talent all in one place. Plus the fact that there is always something going on, wether it be a concert, dance, session, mossis diplay. There are good quality trade stands etc. You don't have to buy the festival beer, you can take your own tins bottles etc, and you can cater for yourself. I still theink that even at £80.00 a ticket, they are bloody good value. Steve |
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02 Apr 11 - 09:25 AM (#3126880) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Mr Happy A lot of the formalised concert fests often have the same artistes from one to another, invariably doing the same routines, even the same jokes!!! |
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16 Apr 11 - 01:26 PM (#3136411) Subject: RE: Have the good times gone? I worry..... From: Soldier boy freshen up! |