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Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March

12 May 11 - 09:29 AM (#3152697)
Subject: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

Have heard [& played along with] this super tune in many sessions but only recently got its name.

X: 1
T: Sir Sidney Smith's March
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
R: reel
K: Gmaj
Bc|:d2d2d2d2|e2d2c2B2|dcBc A2 dc|BcAB G2dc|
BdBd AdAd|GdGd FdFd|Bcde d2^c2|1d2d2d2 Bc:|2d2d2d2 AG||
FDFA dABc|B2B2B2 dc|BGBd gde=f|e2e2e2 gf|
egeg dgdg|cgcg BgBg|egeg dgdg|cgcg BgBg|
e2d2c2B2|e2d2c2B2|e2d2c2B2|B2A2A2 Bc|
d2d2d2d2|e2d2c2B2|dcBc A2dc|BcAB G2 dc|
BdBd AdAd|GdGd FdFd|EdEd FdFd|GdGd AdAd|
EdEd FdFd|GdGd AdAd|cedc BAGF|G2G2G2||

A soundbite on YT here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKg17lfIZg4

It's also known as Handel's Gavotte, guess it may be a snippet from one of his compositions - anybody know which?

12 May 11 - 09:51 AM (#3152706)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,leeneia

Thanks very much, Mr. Happy!   I have liked this tune for a long time but never had the music.

12 May 11 - 10:47 AM (#3152734)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Bernard

I played it as a 'trumpet solo' on the church organ for a Morris wedding many years ago - it really works well. In case that sounds a bit odd, the 'trumpet solo' was a trumpet stop on one manual, accompanied by flue stops on another manual and the pedals...

Made a welcome change from 'Trumpet Voluntary' (Prince of Denmark's March)!

12 May 11 - 11:23 AM (#3152764)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Brian Peters

Very much the same tune is in the Thomas Watts MS from the Peak District, but there it's listed as 'The Turk's March, by Handel'. Googling this title gets you nowhere, and Handel's Gavotte in G major isn't the one, either. Handel wrote another gavotte in Bb, but although that isn't 'Sir Sid's', it bears a resemblance to 'Jack the Horse Courser's Hornpipe' as recorded by Harry Boardman.

I'd be interested to see if anyone comes up with anything on that Handel link.

12 May 11 - 01:38 PM (#3152830)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: TheSnail

I seem to remember that there are two Handel's Gavottes in the John Clare collection and #2 is Sir Syd. See- http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/SIR.htm#SIR_SYDNEY_SMITH'S_MARCH. Seemingly not by Handel at all. Just sounds like him.

Sir Sydney Smith was an admiral in Nelson's navy and had a famous victory at Acre in 1798 so too late for Handel.

The tune has been popular amongst English concertina players since Alistair Anderson used it in his Concertina Workshop.

12 May 11 - 01:42 PM (#3152832)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: TheSnail

Oops! Only just re-read the full Fiddler's Companion entry.

12 May 11 - 05:03 PM (#3152963)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Little Robyn

It's in the Northumbrian Piper's repertoire and appeared in the first NSP tune book.
Alistair is a brilliant piper as well.
But I could never get my fingers around it!
Robyn

13 May 11 - 06:18 AM (#3153233)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

Robyn

'But I could never get my fingers around it!'

You're not alone!

But these kinds of tunes, with all of their intricacies, make for a much more interesting, challenging & satisfying experience in the playing.

In Chester, where I'm based, there's a new music & dance session being set up from next week & will include mostly Playford's publications.

I'll initiate a new thread to publicise this event - really looking forward to it.

All respondents re 'Sir Sid' thanks for extra info, esp its nought to do with Handel! [but it adds that extra 'highbrow' touch!]

13 May 11 - 06:47 AM (#3153252)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Brian Peters

It's also a classic melodeon player's test piece, of course. The bits where the melody does a lot of bobbing around (is there a better technical term for that?) are testing but not impossible, and there are some nice bass runs to be added as well.

13 May 11 - 10:55 AM (#3153355)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,leeneia

I'm going to see if Joe can post my MIDI of what Sir Sidney's Smith March would have been like had somebody actually written it as a "Turk's March." It would have to have been in the belly-dance minor.

It's a fun piece to play and hear the contrast.

Handel, no doubt, would have made it more sophisticated and more quasi-Turkish than I can.

13 May 11 - 12:29 PM (#3153420)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Lester

You don't need much of a melodeon to play Sir Sid :)

Me and my Castagnari Mignon

13 May 11 - 12:42 PM (#3153430)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Brian Peters

Ha! Nice one, Lester.

13 May 11 - 01:32 PM (#3153465)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Joe Offer

This is from leeneia:

    I've made a MIDI from the abc posted above. I lengthen a few notes togive a person a breather. As I recall, it's how the Battlefield Band did it.

    sirsid.mid (click to play)




    Somebody said long ago that this march was "The Turk's March" by Handel. This proved to be untrue, but I asked myself how 'Sir Sidney Smith's March' march would sound if somebody had actually wanted to make it soundTurkish. (There was a fad for that at one time. See Mozart's Turkish Sonata.)

    Of course, this new march, which I have named 'Sir Sidney Smith's Farewell to Istanbul,' does not give real tribute to the complexity of true Turkish music. But it's fun, and it gives a chance to get out the dumbek and thetriangle.

    sirsidminor.mid (click to play)




    I wish I could be here in 100 years when anguished pedants exclaim that Sir Sidney is NEVER known to have gone to Istanbul.

    ==============

    Thanks,

    leeneia

13 May 11 - 03:22 PM (#3153541)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Tootler

Played here on Northumbrian Pipes.

14 May 11 - 05:30 AM (#3153854)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

That little girl on the pipes is brilliant!

Too bad someone in the audience felt a compulsion to clap?? along to it, detracting & distracting IMO

14 May 11 - 05:40 AM (#3153856)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

leeneia,

Listening to your 'Turkey in the Score' * Superb, will try to play.

Can you post ABC or dots, please?

14 May 11 - 10:50 AM (#3153976)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,leeneia

I'm glad you like it, Mr. Happy. I don't know how to convert, but I've entered an appeal for help, and maybe somebody will do it.

My minor version takes easy chords - Am, Em, as I recall. And somewhere there's a B.

14 May 11 - 11:30 AM (#3153997)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,Grishka

Lady leenia, your wish is my command:

X:1
T:Sidney Smith's March
L:1/8
M:C
K:Am
Q:160
%%abc-version 2.0
%%continueall true
cd| e2eee2e2| f2e2d2c2| edcdB2ed| cdBcA2ed| ceceBeBe| AeAeGeGe| cdefe2^d2| % 8
e6c=d| e2eee2e2| f2e2d2c2| edcdB2ed| cdBcA2ed| ceceBeBe| AeAeGeGe| % 15
cdefe2^d2| e2e2e2BA| GEGBeBcd| c6ed| cAceaefg| f6ag| fafaeaea| dadacaca| % 23
fafaeaea| dadacaca| f2e2d2c2| [d2f2][c2e2][A2d2][A2c2]| % 27
[A2f2][A2e2][A2d2][E2c2]| c2[E2B2][E2B2]cd| e2eee2e2| f2e2d2c2| edcdB2ed| % 32
cdBcA2ed| ceceBeBe| AeAeGeGe| FeFeGeGe| AeAeBeBe| FeFeGeGe| AeAeBeBe| % 39
dfedcBAG| A6|]! % 41

14 May 11 - 11:31 AM (#3154000)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,Grishka

... leeneia ... (*blush*)

15 May 11 - 04:38 AM (#3154320)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

GUEST,Grishka,

Great, thanks

15 May 11 - 08:05 AM (#3154402)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,Grishka

You're welcome, Mr Happy. Note that I converted leeneia's "transgendered" version.

The original, as we have read in TheSnail's link, was composed by an organist named James Hook (1746-1827). The style is clearly an out-of-period imitation of baroque patterns, so I don't think it should be accompanied in a folk-revival style. The longer notes cry for a real counterpoint.

15 May 11 - 09:53 AM (#3154440)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,Grishka

My "reconstruction", sketching how James Hook's complete piece may have sounded. Two voices suffice. Imagine a piano imitating a harpsichord.

X:1
T:Sir Sydney's March
C:James Hook, ca. 1800
C:arr. Grishka
L:1/8
M:C
K:G
Q:160
%%score { 1 |2 }
V:Right
Bc| d2d2d2d2| e2d2c2B2| dcBcA2dc| BcABG2dc| BdBdAdAd| GdGdGFdc| Bcded2+trill+^c2|\ % 8
d6::AG| FDFAdABc| +trill+B4B2dc| BGBdgde=f| +trill+e4e2g^f| egegdgdg| cgcgBgBg| egegdgdg|\ % 16
cgcgBgBg| e2d2c2B2| e2d2c2B2| e2d2c2B2| B2A2A2Bc| d2d2d2d2| e2d2c2B2|\ % 23
dcBcA2dc| BcABG2dc| BdBdAdAd| GdGdFdFd| EdEdFdFd| GdGdAdAd| EdEdFdFd|\ % 30
GdGdAdAd| cedcB2+trill+A2| G4G2:|]! % 33
V:Left
z2| G,2F,2E,2D,2| C,2E,2A,2G,2| F,2D,2E,2F,2| G,2D,2G,,2z2| G,2G,2F,2F,2|\ % 6
B,2B,2A,2F,2| G,2E,2A,2A,,2| D,2F,A,D2::z2| z2D,2E,2F,2| G,G,,B,,D,G,D,E,F,|\ % 11
G,2G,2A,2B,2| CC,E,G,CG,A,B,| C2C2B,2B,2| E2E2D2D2| C,2C,2B,,2B,,2|\ % 16
E,2E,2D,2D,2| CGB,GA,GG,2| C,G,B,,G,A,,G,G,,2| CG,B,G,E,G,^C,G,|\ % 20
D,2F,A,D2z2| G,,2G,F,E,2D,2| C,A,,B,,G,,A,,2G,,2| F,,2D,,2E,,2F,,2|\ % 24
G,,2D,2G,2z2| G,,2G,2F,2F,,2| B,,2B,2A,2A,,2| G,,2G,2A,2D,2| E,2E2F2F,2|\ % 29
G,2G,,2A,,2A,2| B,2B,,2F,,2D,B,,| C,2A,,2D,E,F,D,| G,2D,B,,G,,2:|]! % 33

15 May 11 - 10:36 AM (#3154453)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

GUEST,Grishka,

Givig it a listen right now on folkinfo converter - Brill!!

15 May 11 - 12:27 PM (#3154510)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,Grishka

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe...

Folkinfo seems to use another version of abcm2ps than I do. Delete my %%score line to view the correct black dots. Next time I post an ABC song I'll test it with folkinfo.

15 May 11 - 05:56 PM (#3154676)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,leeneia

Tausend dank, Bold Sir Grishka!

Thou art one in a thousand million.

I'm pleased that more people will be able to play 'Sir Sidney Smith's Farewell to Istanbul' because of your help.

16 May 11 - 03:44 AM (#3154886)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

Well I did try it on Concertina.net's Tune-o-tron at first, but it wouldn't load properly

16 May 11 - 03:57 AM (#3154891)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html

16 May 11 - 05:31 AM (#3154928)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,Grishka

Somewhere I read that concertina and folkinfo agreed on using the same software, but one can never know.

The line
%%score { 1 |2 }
in my own "composition" seems to be the sinner - just delete it from the entryfield. As I said, I'll check my future posts with these services. ABC seems to be in a transition phase, let us hope it ends soon.

Leeneia, glad to be your humble servant. I am not sure whether there are a thousand million owners of MIDI-to-ABC software out there, but, as I wrote in your other thread, it is free, easy to use, and won't interfere with your MIDI system. For this I vouch with my hounour as a Minnesänger and Trouvère.
Yours forever
Herre Grishka von der Schmutzkatze

16 May 11 - 05:52 AM (#3154942)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,Grishka

I found out that it was my own silly mistake (in my post of 15 May 11 - 09:53 AM). I am still not good at ABC; the software and the webservices are innocent.

My "%%score { 1 |2 }" should be replaced by

%%score {Right | Left }

since I had changed the V: identifiers accordingly. Sorry for the trouble.

16 May 11 - 06:44 AM (#3154965)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Jack Campin

Before leeneia posted hers, I started my own adaptation. This has Sir Sid making a longer stay in Istanbul - it's a semai, one of the classical forms of Ottoman music. I've slowed it down, broken the B part into three 8-bar chunks used as verses with the A part as a chorus, and used the normal sort of changes in mode, meter and tempo that you get in a semai. 

X:2
T:Sir Sidney Smith's Semai
M:10/8
L:1/8
P:ABACAD
K:APhr
P:A
Q:5/8=38
c2d|e3  e2 e2 e3 |f3  e2 d2 c3 |e2d cd B2 e2d|c2d Bc A2
e2d|c2e ce Be B2e|A2e Ae Ge G2e|c2d ef e2 d3 |e3  e2 e2:|
P:B
Q:5/8=38
B2A|G2E GB       eB       c2d|c3  c2       c2       \
e2d|c2A ce       ae       f2g|f3  f2       f2
a2g|f2a f/a/f/a/ e/a/e/a/ e2a|d2a d/a/d/a/ c/a/c/a/ \
c2a|f2a f/a/f/a/ e/a/e/a/ e2a|d2a d/a/d/a/ c/a/c/a/||
P:C
M:5/8
Q:3/8=64
c2a |f2 e3|^d2 c3|f2 e3|^d2 c3|f2  e3 |^d2 c3  |c2  B3    |B2
c2^d|e2 e3| e2 e3|f2 e3|^d2 c3|e2 ^d2c|^dB e2^d|c2 ^d2B/c/|A2||
P:D
M:6/8
Q:6/8=48
e2d|c2e c2e|B2e B2e|A2e A2e|G2e G2e|F2e F2e|G2e G2e|A2e A2e|B2e
B2e|F2e F2e|G2e G2e|A2e A2e|B2e B2e|d2f e2d|c2B A2G|A3  A3 |A3|]

Anybody for sending Sir Sid to Jamaica for a reggae version?

16 May 11 - 09:00 AM (#3155058)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,leeneia

Brilliant, Jack! I have saved a MIDI of this to listen to and learn.

And what if Sir Sidney had gone to Vienna and learned to waltz?

16 May 11 - 11:03 AM (#3155128)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Jack Campin

Seems pretty easy to waltz to (not sure quite how Viennese this is): 

X:1
T:Sir Sidney Smith's Waltz
M:3/4
L:1/4
Q:3/4=60
K:G
B/c/|d2 d   |d2 d   |e2 d   |c2 B   |d>cB/c/|A2 d/c/ |B>cA/B/|G2 d/c/|
     B>dB/d/|A>dA/d/|G>dG/d/|F>dF/d/|B>cd/e/|d2^c    |d3-    |d2    :|
A/G/|F>DF/A/|d>AB/c/|B2 B   |B2 d/c/|B>GB/d/|g>de/=f/|e2 e   |e2 g/f/|
     e>ge/g/|d>gd/g/|c>gc/g/|B>gB/g/|e>ge/g/|d>gd/g/ |c>gc/g/|B>gB/g/|
     e2 d   |c2 B   |e2 d   |c2 B   |e2 d   |c2 B    |B2 A   |A2 B/c/|
     d2 d   |d2 d   |e2 d   |c2 B   |d>cB/c/|A2 d/c/ |B>cA/B/|G2 d/c/|
     B>dB/d/|A>dA/d/|G>dG/d/|F>dF/d/|E>dE/d/|F>dF/d/ |G>dG/d/|A>dA/d/|
     E>dE/d/|F>dF/d/|G>dG/d/|A>dA/d/|c>ed/c/|B>AG/F/ |G3-    |G2    |]

16 May 11 - 02:40 PM (#3155256)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST

Sir Sidney was very familiar with Istanbul and Vienna. His brother was British Ambassador to the Sublime Porte and Sir Sidney went to the Congress of Vienna in 1815 to try to get other European nations to join with Britain's banning of the slave trade.

17 May 11 - 04:54 AM (#3155563)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: SteveMansfield

T:Sir Sidney Smith's Waltz
M:3/4

Oh yes, I'm liking that version a lot Jack ... that's definitely going to get a run out somewhere in the near future ....

17 May 11 - 05:07 AM (#3155567)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

More on the composer, James Hook, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hook_(composer)

17 May 11 - 05:10 AM (#3155569)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

........& Sir Sid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Sidney_Smith

17 May 11 - 10:11 AM (#3155698)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,leeneia

Thanks for the waltz, Jack.

This is fun.

17 May 11 - 03:26 PM (#3155868)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Wolfhound person

Chloe (the piper) is still playing. I was at that performance - I don't think it was clapping, but the audience tapping its collective feet on what was a very resonant floor.

It's a b****r when you're competing as the audience always speed up and the player has to decide whether to follow the feet or try ansd make a stand.

If memory serves, she won the intermediate class on that occasion.
See facebook for what she looks like now.

As to Sir Sid, the N'brian version has become modified over the years - the older players had an extra couple of bars in the B part. Don't know why it got dropped.


Paws

12 Jun 11 - 08:39 AM (#3169280)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Mr Happy

A charming rendering here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8v9REcqblo

from some antipodean fiddlers!

12 Jun 11 - 08:48 AM (#3169282)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Will Fly

One of the first fingerstyle guitar versions I ever heard of this was on Duck Baker's "Kid On The Mountain" album from around 1970. Catch it if you can, as it's a lovely version.

14 Feb 13 - 01:07 PM (#3479627)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: GUEST,ageing folky

Don't know if anyone has posted this information., but I have this tune on a cassette tape " From Sewingshields To Glendale"
It just says Trad. so no author.
Alistair Anderson is featured on this tape , so I guess he is probably playing this tune. Also Bill Weddell.

If you can still find this album it is a great album of Northumbrian Music, Song, And Poetry also Featuring the great Kathryn Tickell.
I recommend it to you all.

14 Feb 13 - 02:25 PM (#3479658)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Commander Crabbe

George Welch does a nice fingerstyle version on his album "Perchance To Dream"

CC

14 Feb 13 - 02:51 PM (#3479665)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Will Fly

I humbly append my version on tenor guitar...

Sir Sidney Smith's March

14 Feb 13 - 05:00 PM (#3479725)
Subject: RE: Tune Add: Sir Sidney Smith's March
From: Commander Crabbe

Nice one Will

CC