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17 May 11 - 02:32 PM (#3155836) Subject: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: katlaughing On Fresh Air, today, an interview with journalist, Annie Jacobsen, on her new book, Area 51 Uncensored. Apparently, near the end of the book, she relates what she was told, by what she considers a solid source, about the USSR engineering humans into little aliens, the iconic type we see with big heads, etc. Purportedly, they were actual, young humans genetically altered as a hoax on the US, trying to push us into a panic similar to what was seen when War of the Worlds was broadcast. When the interviewer, Terry Gross, asked why the president, at the time, didn't just announce such, she was told because the US decided to do the same and thus a "rogue" program was carried out. There's lots more about Area 51. One may listen HERE. Transcript will be available by tomorrow. kat |
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17 May 11 - 03:13 PM (#3155861) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: gnu Coneheads were far more successful at invading the USA. |
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17 May 11 - 03:39 PM (#3155880) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: McGrath of Harlow ...a solid source... Yeah... |
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17 May 11 - 04:33 PM (#3155905) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: katlaughing Listen to what she says...you might be surprised. |
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17 May 11 - 04:52 PM (#3155921) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: Q (Frank Staplin) Oh, those mad Russians! Oh, what nonsense. May help sell the book to acephalics. |
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17 May 11 - 04:55 PM (#3155924) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: gnu I AM NOT AN ALIEN! |
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17 May 11 - 05:00 PM (#3155929) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: GUEST,999 To the Americans you would be if you went there, gnu. |
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17 May 11 - 05:15 PM (#3155932) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: Sorcha Kat....please tell me you don't belive this crap. Try documentation, credibilty.......no, I didn't go listen. |
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17 May 11 - 05:21 PM (#3155935) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: gnu 999... ain't them aliens hairsuitless? I am bald but my big head ain't that big. I mean, even with species profiling I'd be okay eh? Although I admit I can be a bit alien at times, I do have a passport. Surely Canucks are not considered aliens in The States? Especially if we bring beer. I mean, the only difference between us is... hmmm... we just elected Harper as PM... why the fuck is there a border anyway? |
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17 May 11 - 05:33 PM (#3155943) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: Q (Frank Staplin) We have enough trouble here in western Canada with the Sasquatch. Dunno if they are alien. They are hirsute and stink. |
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17 May 11 - 05:52 PM (#3155953) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: GUEST,leeneia I think some imitation humans rented the house next door to me, though they do not have large, bald heads. I just listened to one call the dog. "Sammie, damn it Sammie, get in in here. I said get in here RIGHT NOW! (tone turns from pleading to growling) Sammie, move it Sammie! Sammie! AAARGH!" Does that sound like a human to you? |
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17 May 11 - 05:52 PM (#3155954) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: katlaughing Never claimed to believe it, Sorcha. Just putting it out there. Before someone dismisses a vetted guest on NPR, though, I do wish they'd listen or, at least, wait to read the transcript. Terry Gross expressed a lot of disbelief, too. The reporter writes for the L.A. Times and the National Review. Her "backstory" on the Area 51 book may be read at the L.A. Times, fwiw. |
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17 May 11 - 07:15 PM (#3156001) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: Bill D Secret planes are one thing... genetic engineering of big-headed aliens is another. I really wish people would not tell such stories without genuine **evidence** beyond claims of 'solid sources'. |
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17 May 11 - 07:30 PM (#3156007) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: GUEST,lively Those evil Commies! When will they quit their subversive antics? If they're not busy planting Reds under the beds of our American cuzzins, then they're putting little green genetic hybrids under there! Where's the poor neglected Bogey Man supposed to kip? |
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17 May 11 - 07:32 PM (#3156008) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens! From: Jeri I listened, and I might believe it if any of these things were verifiable. I'm pretty sure there was an X-Files episode with the same exact plot. On one hand, the government was throwing plutonium around everywhere and injecting it into children, but they had to work on an elaborate, expensive, and time consuming alien scenario with flying saucers and genetically engineered child pilots--assuming there were some years spent on research before they grew and raised those "13 years old or older" kids and trained them how to pilot a flying saucer--in order to panic people?! The X-Files episode was more realistic. |
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17 May 11 - 08:17 PM (#3156024) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Enough to read without looking at garbage. (Ok, already, I'm reading this thread) |
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17 May 11 - 09:20 PM (#3156041) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Mrrzy Just to bring it to music... "I'm an alien I'm a legal alien I'm an Englishman in New York..." I mean, how alien can you get? I can hardly wait to find out this is really true... |
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17 May 11 - 09:33 PM (#3156048) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Don Firth Very interesting interview, Kat. Thanks for posting that. I used to listen to Terry Gross's program all the time, until my local NPR affiliate started putting it on late in the evenings when I'm involved in other things. Her guest is very credible sounding and the story she tells is fascinating. I've followed this business ever since private pilot Kenneth Arnold sighted nine disc-like objects flying over Mount Rainier on June 24, 1947. He said they were flying in formation and he estimated their speed at around 1200 miles per hour—unattainable by any known aircraft at the time. Arnold, a trained observer and not given to tall tales or vast quantities of strong drink, was quite definite that what he saw were not weather balloons or migrating pelicans, but machines of some sort. Coincidentally with that (or perhaps not), I recall reports toward the end of World War II of pilots spotting some kind of flying gizmos that were disc-shaped, glowed incandescently, and were unbelievably maneuverable appearing in the skies over Europe during dogfights. American, British, and German and Japanese pilots saw them, and each thought they were the other guys'. They didn't take part in the dogfights, they seemed to be merely observing, and if approached, zipped off quickly, far too fast to overtake, although many pilots tried. All of these pilots were quick to identify one aircraft from another. Among other things, their lives depended on it. And they didn't know what in blazes they were. Enough of them were spotted that they came up with a name for them. They called the "Foo fighters." (Pre-dating the rock group by many decades.) So—?? Then came the 1950s and subsequent sightings, Project Blue Book, Donald Keyhoe's book, Flying Saucers are Real, which was a well-reasoned examination of the whole matter, although Keyhoe did not claim any extraordinary knowledge. Just common sense. (Very interesting book!) Then, vast quantities of goat feathers, complete with fruit cakes, and various opportunistic folks trying to exploit the phenomenon for gain or notoriety. Muddied the waters and raise the level of general skepticism. The whole phenomenon is rife with possibilities. There is the whole new field, about which the late Carl Sagan said at the time that he was the only scientist in the world who did not have an acknowledged object of study—a "xenobilologist." The term has since been changed to "astrobiologist," and there is an Astrobiology Department at the nearby University of Washington. Studies in this field have pretty well established that if it is at all possible for life to develop, it will. In even some very harsh conditions such as the 700 degree waters around "black smokers" in the deepest depths of the ocean (such water temperatures possible because of the pressure at those depths). I have a friend who works there. And, of course, SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intellegence. Arecibo telescope and all that. And recently, with the Hubble telescope and other instruments, the discovery of hundreds of "extrasolar" planets—planets outside our solar system, orbiting nearby stars, many of which are what are being called "Goldilocks planets." Not too hot, not too cold, where H2O would be in a liquid state and "life as we know it" could possibly develop (or have developed already). So I wouldn't simply write the whole matter off as insanity brought on by overdosing on back episodes of "Star Trek" or "The X-Files." As to the matter of the famous Area 51 aliens being genetically engineered and surgically altered teen-agers. . . . I'd have to chew on that one awhile. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proofs. Although Terry Gross's guest was very convincing—or very convinced—there was no actual evidence. I find it hard to believe. But I can't say that I totally disbelieve it either. Don Firth P. S. Two further comments: CLICKY And A disc-shaped object, pulsing with light hovers over the street and sets down in front of a music store. A door lifts up, a ramp slides down to the sidewalk, and a little green man with a large head and big black eyes walks out, crosses the sidewalk, and enters the music store. The clerk behind the sheet music counter watches the little green man approach with her eyes wide and her mouth agape. When the little green man is finally standing before her counter, she manages to stammer, "M-m-may I h-elp you?" The little green man says, "Take me to your lieder." (May be too subtle for some.) |
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17 May 11 - 09:35 PM (#3156050) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Bee-dubya-ell Genuine alien-piloted UFO or Russian-built hoax piloted by intentionally altered humans? I'm a UFO skeptic, but given a choice between the two options, and assuming one or the other is true, I'll take the one with the fewest "moving parts". It was a real UFO. One question that was not addressed in the interview is this: If the craft was a Russian-built flying disk with hover capability and it was reverse engineered by US scientists and engineers, as was stated in the interview, then why weren't similar crafts made in the US? If it was a human-built device with understandable technology, why didn't the USAF attempt to dispell the UFO reports by building their own fleet of "flying saucers" and showing everyone that they were, in fact, simply human-made objects? The fact that they didn't do so indicates to me that US scientists and engineers were not capable of duplicating the technology. Are we to believe that a couple of expatriate German rocket scientists working in Russia were able to create something US scientists couldn't duplicate? |
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17 May 11 - 11:02 PM (#3156078) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: katlaughing Thanks, Don for your contribution and the funnies. Lieder, indeed! I'll have to tell my brother that one! BWL, supposedly because the US didn't want to reveal the genetically-altered beings which they were also trying to duplicate. But, of course, as others have pointed out, that's a tough one with solid evidence, despite what Jacobsen says about her source. kat |
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17 May 11 - 11:16 PM (#3156081) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,hg hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahaha! hg |
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17 May 11 - 11:20 PM (#3156083) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Don Firth At the end of the war, we managed to run off with a few German rocket scientists as well, and one would think that they would be up on what their colleagues were monkeying with. Werner Von Braun was no dummy, and, in fact, he was the one who managed to get the U. S.'s first satellite off the ground. He said he could do it with his Redstone launch vehicle, but the contract had been given to the Navy with their Vanguard rocket. According to some rocket engineers, its fuel system was a plumber's nightmare, which may account for the fact that, after much fanfare, embarrassingly, it blew up on the launch pad. Grudgingly, they told Von Braun to go ahead and launch the Redstone. Went off like a walk in the park. The Germans did have the untested A9-A10, a two stage presumably intercontinental ballistic missile waiting for Germany's atomic bomb, which was almost ready to go, according to some reports. (shudder!) One would think that if the Germans had something like a functional "flying saucer" in the works, people like Von Braun would have known about it. Don Firth |
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17 May 11 - 11:49 PM (#3156089) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: MGM·Lion In C18-C19 {& earlier} it was ghosts ~~ everyone had a Friend Of A Friend, or a FOAF of a FOAF, or a FOAF of a FOAF of a FOAF}, who had seen one... In C20 it was UFOs... Now in C21 it's these genetically-engineered whatevers... Plus ça change... ~Michael~ |
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18 May 11 - 05:22 AM (#3156166) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: JohnInKansas We have enough trouble here in western Canada with the Sasquatch. Dunno if they are alien. They are hirsute and stink. I met one of them at a Bluegrass Festival up in the northwest US. His buddies said he was just a "typical lumberjack." John |
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18 May 11 - 05:44 AM (#3156178) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity katlaughing: "When the interviewer, Terry Gross, asked why the president, at the time, didn't just announce such, she was told because the US decided to do the same and thus a "rogue" program was carried out." Oh, I believed I mentioned in another thread, a little while back, about massive tax dollars being used to fun 'black box' projects. Your tax dollars, at work! In other words, billions to fund a lie.....and you still trust every word that comes out of them??????? GfS |
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18 May 11 - 10:09 AM (#3156321) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: katlaughing ...you still trust every word that comes out of them??????? Obviously you don't read what I have said. Never have "trusted" every word. |
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18 May 11 - 10:48 AM (#3156337) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Bill D Whether any of these claims are true or not, many will believe them...using the common weird logic of: If we don't have 'evidence', it must be because they are hiding the evidence! I'm not sure why 'don't have evidence' doesn't more often indicate there might not BE any evidence. (remember the 100MPG carburetor? We don't have it because the oil companies are hiding it!) *I* would love to be a fly on the wall when new presidents are briefed (or sandbagged) about Area 51 & related issues. I do have some concern that some matters are kept from even the president. |
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18 May 11 - 11:44 AM (#3156354) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Wesley S Annie Jacobsen was the guest on the Daily Show last night with Jon Stewart. Most of the information she covered was in the Terry Gross interview but I'm sure you can find it on line if you want to see for yourself. |
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18 May 11 - 12:26 PM (#3156373) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity katlaughing: (GfS)...you still trust every word that comes out of them??????? (katlaughing)Obviously you don't read what I have said. Never have "trusted" every word." Well I wasn't being contentious, but you brought up a good point. Let me re-phrase: "......you still trust ANY word that comes out of them???????" Thank you, GfS |
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18 May 11 - 01:00 PM (#3156385) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: katlaughing Now you are being absurd. |
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18 May 11 - 01:29 PM (#3156402) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Can you give me an example of when the recent administration-S were out front, and honest about anything???? One lie entwines its self with other lies, and eventually, like a hologram, the whole picture contains the elements of every part. So it is with corruption. The best thing in that picture, is the 'hopes' of the people who want to believe the 'good'....and that's fine, but not in the hands of deceivers....don't ya' think? GfS |
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18 May 11 - 05:00 PM (#3156550) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Bill D GfS... I think you confuse lying with 'not being totally forthcoming about everything'. Obviously, no administration will give totally 'free' answers to everything you might be curious about. I could type for an hour listing various things one adminstration was really DIShonest about, and how another administration seems to be more honest... but you wouldn't be impressed with anything but the typing... ☺ |
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18 May 11 - 05:07 PM (#3156557) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Gibberish! GfS |
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18 May 11 - 07:46 PM (#3156690) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Bill D Not a surprising reply from one who doesn't seem to see shades of gray, but only black & white. Lemme try this: They ain't gonna tell the public everything... that don't mean what they DO say is all lies. |
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18 May 11 - 10:30 PM (#3156758) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel do the math. "Someone" starts engineering mini human pilots in Jan. 1935. They are 12 years old when they crash in Roswell in a craft designed by German scientists in 1934. nnnnnaw I don't think so. The annonymous source is known to all ufo insider enthusiasts. Here is his picture http://0.tqn.com/d/ufos/1/G/U/-/-/-/stantonfriedman.jpg The part about atmospheric and Hydrogen bomb tests in space is true and is respondsible for a great destruction of our protective atmospheric ozone and the epidemic of cancers that followed. |
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18 May 11 - 10:35 PM (#3156761) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel There is a famous photo of a diminutive alien looking "person's" body being held up by one hand and appearing to stand between two 1947 army arimen officers. SOme of the child's flesh can be seen seperating on the arms. It is as haunting as it is sad. The arrogance of the airmen is perhaps the most salient part of the photo. I do not know how easy it is find this photo at this point. |
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18 May 11 - 11:46 PM (#3156791) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: katlaughing Donuel, Terry Gross spoke of that discrepancy, also. |
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19 May 11 - 04:40 AM (#3156870) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray They called the "Foo fighters." (Pre-dating the rock group by many decades.) Great stuff as ever, Don. But Foo Fighters are an integral aspect of Americana and American folklore in general, so what could be more fitting for a band to use the name? In fact, this really ought to be a folklore thread. The reality of the UFO phenomenon is perhaps less significant than the various traditions of cultural interpretation we see both in terms of psuedo-science and psuedo-religion. Like most people, I enjoy the mythos, the storytelling, the general lore that accumulates inspite of itself really. There is a famous photo of a diminutive alien looking "person's" body being held up by one hand and appearing to stand between two 1947 army arimen officers. Is this the one you're thinking of? http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fb576b5b9a18.jpg It's as iconic in Fortean circles as the Loys' Ape pic, though unlike the latter no one seems to know too much about it. |
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19 May 11 - 04:47 AM (#3156873) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: harmonic miner Sometime I hope there are extraterrestrial beings. They might make more sense than some of the terrestrial ones, |
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19 May 11 - 12:08 PM (#3157065) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel For four years I was a ufo researcher and met with all the big names in the field. Brad is an ass and a liar of conveinience. Stanley means well and has made the best of a failed science career. Hynek was the real deal and was a kind and humble man who knew who lied to him and was just credible enough to be handled with extreme predjudice. While he was diagnosed with a rare and extremely fast brain cancer he showed me his last classification system which involved the movement and visual charateristics for all ufo reports. The only person I wanted to meet but did not get a chance was Jacques Vallee. I did a few radio shows on the subject of ufos but I never had any profit motive, nor did I recieve any money attached to my investigations. 10 years prior to Dr. Mack I hypnotized over 100 people who alledged ufo sightings or encounters. I went out to sites. I had no memorable sightings of my own at that time, except for childhood memories but subsequent to my 4 years of full time study I had six sightings, 2 of which were close and audible and bizarre. My various conclusions: highly ionized air prevents seeing many ufos in a hovering stationary position. The craft use vast amounts of electricity. They do make low frequency sound but self canceling waves may prevent it from being heard at a distance. There are 4 primary classifications of ufo craft, cylinder, Dropa saucer, triangle and boomerang. They are intelligently controled. People who claim abduction from a sleep state are really encountering hypnogogic reverie and temporary sleep paralysis. The few human abductions that may be true are unproven. If one day a person with a GPS chip is abducted and filmed in 3 different light wavelengths, it will be the first objective proof of abduction. Energy gravity and velocity all have a strong effect on time. Time can be overlapped, stretched, accelerated and slowed but human subjective awareness of these events is unusally ignored, justified and excused rather than being truely sensed and "seen" for what it is. As for the movie 4th Kind, I would need to see all of the session recordings before I could venture an informed opinion. PS That indeed is a 'portion' of the photo. The one that is not pasted has two smiling army airmen holding the "creature". The photo you posted is a paste job with two reporter like figures and a background that looks like it includes Russian peasants. Under high mag a jpg will always have distorted boundaries where another image is pasted. PPSS The History Channel series on ancient ufos has nice pictures but the group of talking "experts" are by in large a big bowl of crap cereal without the prize. |
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19 May 11 - 02:42 PM (#3157120) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray After a lifetime of reading & listening (and reading Fortean Times every month) I've seen nothing to dissuade me that the UFO phenomenon is anything else but folklore arising from ill-observed natural phenomenon (and Chinese lanterns). Herein lies its interest, not in the notions propounded by the ET faithful or the CT faithful that would have us believe that the USSR were genetically modifying humans back in the 30s / 40s. The folklore of that is interesting certainly - the cultural paranoia, the general panic implied, and the whole mythos of Area 51 likewise, but in the end it comes down to the wonkiness of personal faith (psuedo-science as pseudo-religion) and the famous slogan on Mulder's poster (or was it Scully's?) which just about sums up the whole thing really. On a Folklore discussion sight, then by all means let's discuss the Folklore, but these asides into the murky realms of UFO-illological BS is just plain depressing. It's rather like a discussion of Tam Lin as an account of genuine supernatural experience (I bet that happens too!). If the photo is so important, then why isn't it anywhere on-line in the form you describe? I've seen the current one dozens of times (although it's by no means common I grant) and would suggest an all too terrestrial origin for the poor mite the UFO faithful have seized upon as being from Outer-Space - or a genetically modified child (FFS). In which case I'd say the scene looks just about right. Or could this be another all too convenient government conspiracy to hide the Truth? Keep watching the skies! |
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19 May 11 - 05:34 PM (#3157203) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Art Thieme Donuel, Do you know, or have you worked with Jerome Clark? I think he headed up SETI for some years. --- He is also a respected and often publisghed critic of folk recordings. Right now, that's his main job. But Jerry Clark wrote the definitive book on the subject of UFOs. Art Thieme |
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19 May 11 - 06:55 PM (#3157236) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Donuel: "highly ionized air prevents seeing many ufos in a hovering stationary position. The craft use vast amounts of electricity. They do make low frequency sound but self canceling waves may prevent it from being heard at a distance." Possibly electromagnetic energy as well...and/or have you considered inter-dimensional crafts?....that is, if they are really as purported to being. I have a musician friend who claims to have been abducted, and he is dead serious...I've made no judgment in regards to his claims...Though I do have some interesting history, crossing paths, but very circumstantial. GfS |
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19 May 11 - 07:02 PM (#3157241) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: bobad Christ, half of my neighbourhood are aliens. |
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19 May 11 - 08:50 PM (#3157291) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity bobad: "Christ, half of my neighbourhood are aliens." Yeaah..legal or illegal?? GfS |
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20 May 11 - 01:02 AM (#3157362) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel I don't know Jerry but I have seen him on TV. He has made a fairly ethical lifelong career on the subject. I have written exhaustively on my encounter with two globes of light at 23 Strathallan Park in Roch NY. They had extradimensional characteristics and led me on toward the ufo research and study of physics, space, time and cosmology. An incursion into our 3 dimensional space would appear to be a sphere. In two dimensional space a 3D object would look like a line but viewed from above in our 3D dimension it would look like a circle just like if a pencil stabbed a piece of paper. So the spheres I saw if viewed from 4D dimension would look like a hypersphere. My all time favorite book on ufos is "Unconventional Flying Objects" |
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20 May 11 - 05:21 AM (#3157448) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Penny S. All that biology has told us about where life might be is that everywhere on Earth where it can survive, it is. We have oodles of extremophiles in cold places, hot places, deeply buried places, deep ocean vents and so on. But none of them are removed from the other life we have which hangs out in more amenable spots. Even things which use arsenic istead of phosphorus in their DNA still have DNA. We can form the opinion that life could start anywhere under the range of conditions we know, but we can't know for certain that it could start under the extreme conditions we find in places on Earth if that sort of place were the only option. Further, we cannot assume that if that sort of place were the only option then development to intelligence might happen. While it seems very unlikely that there is NO other life out there, that there is something which could be imagined to be intelligent in some way, which could be in its window of communication, which would have mastered some sort of way of exceeding light speed, and would be interested in us in the rather dilettante way which seems to have been observed, seems extremely lacking in probability. I have direct contact with SETI, and the search for habitable planets. Penny |
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20 May 11 - 07:09 AM (#3157480) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,lively Unless one believes in a God who made this HUGE effing Universe just for little old us lot, then presumably there must be other smart life out there. If it happened here I just can't see why it wouldn't have happened elsewhere too. As to whether "they" have ever been here, I simply wouldn't know having never had dealings with ET's myself, but the fact that so many people DO seem to believe that "they" have been here, and claim personal experience of such encounters, is enough for me to assume that such people might possibly be right. Simply put, I wouldn't presume myself sufficiently equipped to judge the 'true' nature of another person's experiences. |
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20 May 11 - 07:12 AM (#3157482) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Patsy So that is Area 51, I thought it was a comic shop in Bristol. You learn something new every day. |
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20 May 11 - 07:42 AM (#3157489) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Always seems odd to me that having come from wherever They came from, They feel the need to illuminate Themselves in the night sky. What's the point of that? Meanwhile, the folklore continues: the films, the hoaxes, the hysteria, the True Experiences, and the music of course; I love Sun Ra (who came from Saturn) and stuff like this is my every joy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg6X2hsl52E And don't you just love that other side of Ufology which assumes we primitive earthlings needed ET assistance / inspiration in the construction of the Pyramids, the Nasca Lines or Stonehenge? Alien life? Hell, we can't even communicate with the billions of life-forms with which we share this planet (none of whom have started talking to us either) without thinking we can talk to those from out there... |
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20 May 11 - 12:13 PM (#3157615) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=56388 Dr. Mack felt that the unusually large number of people who seek help regarding their encounter experience is reason enough to come to their aid without judgment. |
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25 May 11 - 06:42 AM (#3160232) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: harmonic miner Mudcat is becoming a great source of nonscience. Isn't it a bit of a jump to assume that an unidentified flying object is a craft from outside the planet? I see something. I don't know what it is. Therefore it must be an extraterrestrial craft. I saw a man this morning who'm I've never seen before. He must be from another planet, it's the only possible explanation. True, he could just have been the new postman but I can't prove that (its boring anyway) |
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25 May 11 - 06:06 PM (#3160550) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: ollaimh i have long suspected that several mudcatters are the result of alien engineering. |
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26 May 11 - 01:40 AM (#3160659) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel The source of science is everything. For anyone to depend upon one single area of scientific discipline for a full education of phenomena is folly. A multi disciplinary approach illuminates a larger field of study and understanding than a single scientific approach. Clearly philosophy, history and science fiction would be part of an interdisciplinary foundation. That does not make for non science. It makes for more possiblilites for understanding. I would trust a cosmologist who had a braod spectrum of knowledge that would include a dozen or more fields of study than I would a single mathmatician, however some mathmaticians like Einstien have more insight than a dozen multidisiplinarians. Still, the math of Eistein was done by someone else. In his case, his first wife. Witten and Greene both are more diverse in their scientific approach than Einstein. I made some of these points in a lengthy essay ten years ago which is as fresh today as when it was first written. |
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26 May 11 - 02:13 AM (#3160664) Subject: non science does not equate with non truth. From: Donuel Non science does not equate with non truth. Non science may in fact be viewed as a field larger than science itself which has become compartmentalized to a ridiculus degree. If I told you that Mars was formerly a moon, the orbit of Venus is less than 1 million years old, or that our moon has proportionally more H2O than Earth, you would certainly think these things are preposterous. Some would say it sounds like non science or science fiction. DO not be hasty to judge. Your average commonly accepted truth takes 20 to 100 years to come of age. With internet technology that time lag is getting shorter every day. Of course there is a segment of people who will not even believe incontravertible facts. Those people are not all religionists, some are merely lost inside their ego. From an omnicient point of view, truth exists even before it is proven to human satisfaction. You do not even have to believe that causality echos forward as well as backwards in time. Who ever you may be, if you are extremely curious, you will be extremely surprised as soon as this autumn. |
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26 May 11 - 05:20 AM (#3160690) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Of course there is a segment of people who will not even believe incontravertible facts. Those people are not all religionists, some are merely lost inside their ego. As perfect a description of ETH believers as I've ever seen! |
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26 May 11 - 05:53 AM (#3160707) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: wysiwyg Here's a great example of why humankind does not always do well at fighting evil: first we must pause to argue about as many details as conceivable. Thus we slide so easily down a slippery slope. And thus I choose to give most of my time and effort to what is within my own reach, that I can touch. Much farther away than that, and an issue seems to occupy the mere-arguing mode most of the time! ~Susan |
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26 May 11 - 01:13 PM (#3160913) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel It is true some people make a career of defining and catagorizing rather than discovering. They still have a place and need to fill. Does anyone here "believe" in the Bloom Box"? Imagine a small box in which 8 could fit in a briefcase. Just two of them can provide electricity for an entire US average home. Most people here will not "believe that they will have one of these for $2000 to power their home. The cost for natural gas to fuel the bloom box fuel cell is about $50 a month. So far FED Ex, Google, Amazon .com are all using large versions of the Bloom Box to power thier largest faciities. But if you didn't know this, there is no reason for you to "believe" in it. As for ufo's, what kind of person could possibly "believe" in such things? |
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27 May 11 - 09:52 AM (#3161277) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray As for ufo's, what kind of person could possibly "believe" in such things? I'm sure most people wouldn't question the literal existence of UFOs; the belief that they are piloted by ETIs, however, is something else altogether. I might allow that such a personage called Jesus Christ once lived and breathed some radical ideas that have lingered down the years, but as to him being to Son of God who died for our sins I regard as ineffable twaddle and seriously demeaning to our humanity. I also accept the existence of a body of Vernacular Songs and Ballads of the English Speaking World, and though I might use the word Folk out of pragmatic convenience, I'm wary of buying into the belief that these songs are the product of anything different than any other type of songs. Whatever form it takes, religious orthodoxy always depresses the hell out of me... |
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28 May 11 - 01:38 AM (#3161623) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel I believe you see my fundamental point. IF you ever hear anyone try to define the subject of conversation and the people who advocate a viewpoint in terms of "believers" , stop the conversation. Remind that person that they will speak only in objective facts and to never again demean and diminish the people or the subject by calling you or others "you people are just (fill in blank) believers". If they claim to not understand, the conversation is already over. |
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28 May 11 - 01:42 AM (#3161624) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel "From: Donuel - PM Date: 26 May 11 - 02:13 AM "Non science does not equate with non truth. Non science may in fact be viewed as a field larger than science itself which has become compartmentalized to a ridiculus degree. If I told you that Mars was formerly a moon, the orbit of Venus is less than 1 million years old, or that our moon has proportionally more H2O than Earth, you would certainly think these things are preposterous. Some would say it sounds like non science or science fiction." --------------- Since I posted this, one of those above things was announced as a new discovery, 24 hours after that post. |
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29 May 11 - 08:33 AM (#3162067) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: McGrath of Harlow ...one of those above things was announced as a new discovery... Give us a link, Donuel. |
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29 May 11 - 12:26 PM (#3162173) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel http://connect.in.com/nasa-announcement-thursday/photos-080709-moon-water-big-8a82bdcea2b5aeec.html The other truths such as Mars was formerly a moon and that the Venus orbit is new in cosmological terms are also still under wraps. To accept emerging truth is difficult for most people Even Thomas Jefferson wrote that "I would prefer to believe that the scientsts who claim that rocks fall from the sky are all crazy than to think these things called meteorites are real". |
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31 May 11 - 02:26 PM (#3163209) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Donuel I discovered that Art Theime's brother and I both cite the most meaningfull book on ufos is Paul Hill's Unconventional Flying Objects. |
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31 May 11 - 02:39 PM (#3163218) Subject: RE: BS: Area 51-USSR engineered human aliens!? From: Stringsinger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_UFOs |
