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Lyr Req: The Hungry Child

19 Sep 99 - 09:15 AM (#115492)
Subject: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I'LL
From: POLESDEN@AOL.COM

THIS IS A SONG I HEARD ABOUT 30 YEARS AGO AND IT ROUGHLY GOES AS FOLLOWS

MOTHER I'M HUNGRY MOTHER DEAR GIVE ME BREAD OR I'LL BE DYING

WAIT MY CHILD,WAIT MY CHILD FOR THE BREAD IT HAS TO BE BAKED

AND WHEN THE BREAD IT HAD BEEN BAKED THE YOUNG CHILD LAY THERE DEAD

THE ABOVE ARE THE FINAL FEW LINES - ANY HELP WITH THE REST OF THE WORDS WOULD BE APPRECIATED

19 Sep 99 - 12:38 PM (#115517)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: wildlone

The song is THE HUNGRY CHILD,recorded by the Young Tradition on So Cheerfully Round
This is released on CD The Young Tradition ESMCD409.

19 Sep 99 - 03:24 PM (#115554)
Subject: Lyr Add: THE HUNGRY CHILD (Judith Piepe)
From: wildlone

The words for THE HUNGRY CHILD
Written by Judith Piepe

A young child to its mother ran and then it started crying,
Mother I'm hungry mother dear give me bread or i'll be dying.
Wait my child, wait my child,
Tomorrow we'll be ploughing.

Now when the field it had been ploughed the young child started crying,
Mother I'm hungry mother dear give me bread or I'll be dying.
Wait my child wait my child,
Tomorrow we;ll be sowing.

Now when the field it had been reaped the young child started crying,
Mother I'm hungry mother dear give me bread or I'll be dying.
Wait my child wait my child,
Tomorrow we'll be threshing.

Now when the wheat it had been threshed the young child started crying,
Mother I'm hungry mother dear give me bread or i'll be dying.
Wait my child wait my child,
Tomorrow we'll be grinding.

Now when the wheat it had been ground the young child started crying,
Mother I'm hungry mother dear give me bread or I'll be dying.
Wait my child wait my child we'll be baking.
Now when the bread was warm in the oven the child lay in his coffin.

^^
This was written and shown to one of those people who knew traditional songs,he said it must be rural 1700s when told the truth he was heard of no more.
hope this helped .WL.

19 Sep 99 - 07:45 PM (#115605)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Susanne (skw)

I have a German version that follows exactly the same storyline on a recent CD of songs coming out of the 1848 revolution in Germany. There are no notes on it, other than the ubiquitous 'Trad'. Maybe it's older than the 19th century, and maybe also Ms. Piepe did a reworking of an existing older song. Who can tell us whether the German or English language version came first? Anon (aka Bruce O.)? Please!

20 Sep 99 - 04:43 AM (#115671)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Joe Offer

Say, Susanne, might you be willing to post the German lyrics?
-Joe Offer-

20 Sep 99 - 06:40 PM (#115933)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Susanne (skw)

Sure, although they're not in the notes. I'll have to take them down from the CD and I'm rather busy just now. So please be prepared to wait a couple of weeks, and I'll do it.

21 Sep 99 - 01:45 PM (#116193)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Polesden

Thank you for the very quick response to my request.

22 Sep 99 - 07:57 PM (#116633)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Susanne (skw)

Joe, I couldn't resist it, and it didn't take very long after all. So here are the German words. The ploughing is left out, there follows sowing, shearing, threshing, grinding and baking. There are no notes at all on the song with the CD. The most likely place to find it is 'Steinitz', I suppose. Are you familiar with that collection?

Mamele, Mamele, gib mit Brot
Oder ich sterb Hungersnot
Warte nur, mein liebes Kind
Morgen will ich säen
Und als das Korn gesäet war
Stand das Kind schon wieder da

Mammele, Mammele, gib mit Brot
Oder ich sterb Hungersnot
Warte nur, mein liebes Kind
Morgen will ich's schneiden
Und als das Korn geschnitten war
Stand das Kind schon wieder da

Mammele, Mammele, gib mit Brot
Oder ich sterb Hungersnot
Warte nur, mein liebes Kind
Morgen will ich dreschen
Und als das Korn gedroschen war
Stand das Kind schon wieder da

Mammele, Mammele, gib mit Brot
Oder ich sterb Hungersnot
Warte nur, mein liebes Kind
Morgen will ich mahlen
Doch als das Korn gemahlen war
Stand das Kind schon wieder da

Mammele, Mammele, gib mit Brot
Oder ich sterb Hungersnot
Warte nur, mein liebes Kind
Morgen will ich backen
Doch als das Brot gebacken war
Da lag das Kind auf der Totenbahr'

^^

24 Sep 99 - 07:40 AM (#117220)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Wolfgang

Susanne, the Judith Piepe song always sounded familiar to me and now I know why, thanks to you.

Here'sMutter, ach Mutter, another German variant, supposedly more than 200 years old. That site also includes a recent singable English translation. Let's hope Ms. Piepe doesn't sue for copyright, for the similarities are obvious. Perhaps that person thinking this was a song from the 1700's just walked away in disgust.
I'll have a look at Steinitz. If he says it's old, it is.

Wolfgang

24 Sep 99 - 05:16 PM (#117437)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Jon Bartlett

The original is in Des Knaben Wunderhorn (sp?),1820 or thereabouts. I ran the new words and a sample of the German in our newsletter about a year ago. I can't post at home for some godforsaken reason ("contacting mudcat. waiting for reply") is all it says, and I'm at work now without me reference books, but I'll post shortly.

PS In the Wunderhorn too is a great version of Lord Randall, with the proper eels.

29 Sep 99 - 09:45 AM (#118816)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Wolfgang

Yes, it's in Des Knaben Wunderhorn (1806/1808) and already then it said: "oral tradition". On the Young Tradition CD it is marked as copyrighted by Ms. Piepe. That may be true, but if Ms. Piepe's lyrics are anything else but a translation from German I understand nothing of plagiarism. I'll give you a sample of both lyrics tomorrow if Jon doesn't.

Wolfgang

30 Sep 99 - 04:40 AM (#119257)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Wolfgang

There is a German version of 'The hungry child' in an old Folksong collection, in von Arnim and Brentano's 'Des Knaben Wunderhorn'. This collection of German folksongs has first been published in 1806/1808. The song is denoted as coming from 'oral tradition', so it is definitely more than 200 years old.
Piepe's original title is 'The Procrastination Song', Des Knaben Wunderhorn prints the title as 'Verspätung' (lateness) and the first line as 'Mutter, ach Mutter'. Now, in Germany the song is known as 'Das hungrige Kind (The hungry child). For comparison here are two verses and choruses:

Judith Piepe (contemp.):
Now when the wheat it had been threshed
the young child started crying:
'Mother I'm hungry, mother dear,
give me bread or I'll be dying.'
'Wait my child, wait my child,
tomorrow we'll be grinding.

Des Knaben Wunderhorn (orig. 1806/1808; a 1963 reprint adapting the spelling to modern German):
Und als das Korn gedroschen war (and when the corn/grain had been threshed)
rief das Kind noch immerdar (the child still was calling):
'Mutter, ach Mutter, es hungert mich (mother, oh mother I'm starving),
gib mir Brot, sonst sterbe ich (give me bread, or I'll be dying).'
'Warte nur, mein liebes Kind (just wait, my dear child),
morgen wollen wir mahlen geschwind (tomorrow, we'll grind quickly).

The similarities in the other verses are just as compelling. The succession of the activities in the verses are ploughing, sowing, reaping, threshing, grinding, baking in Judith Piepe's version, sowing, reaping, threshing, grinding, baking in the old German song.

I'd say the case is clear enough. Ms. Piepe may have rewritten an old song, she may have translated an old song, she may have written a new tune to an old song (we could check that, Susanne, I have Piepe's tune, you have the German tune), but the basic song is more than 200 years old and should have been marked so on the CD and not as '(Piepe) Copyright Control'.
The notes to this song from Heather Wood on the Young Tradition CD (these notes I guess are the basis for wildlone's remark):
"The Hungry Child (3.49)
(Piepe) Copyright Control

Peter, Heather, Royston

We have a friend called Judith Piepe. She once came into collision with a Folk Drag, who knew All About The English Tradition and could tell a traditional song any day. So Judith wrote him a couple, which he averred were rural gems from the seventeen hundreds. When she told him the truth he went away and hasn't been heard from since. Splendid. So, we thought, was one of the songs. Judith calls it 'The Procrastination Song': we prefer to call it 'The Hungry Child'. Note by Heather."

The irony is that the 'Folk Drag' Heather Wood is making fun of in her notes to the song on the Young Tradition CD was right after all.

It is still not clear, however, whether this song is of German or English origin. Even a song being in oral tradition in Germany more than 200 years ago can have an English origin.
If anyone knows about an English early origin I'd love to know and if anyone knows Judith Piepe, I'd love to read what she has to say. Jon, have you had any reaction on your newsletter publication?

Wolfgang

30 Sep 99 - 06:53 PM (#119541)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Susanne (skw)

Great bit of work, Wolfgang! Do you have - or know anyone who has - the CD 'Leipziger Folk-Sessions: 18 aus 48'? The song is on it, sung by Juergen Wolff and Jens Paul Wollenberg. - Susanne

10 Oct 99 - 05:54 AM (#122435)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Wolfgang

No Susanne, I don't have it nor know of anybody...
Should we compare on the phone or swap tapes?

Wolfgang

10 Oct 99 - 08:25 AM (#122450)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: wildlone

Many thanks Wolfgang, Yes I did base my remarks on the sleeve notes on the album. This has been such an interesting thread.

26 Nov 99 - 11:18 AM (#140932)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: MOTHER I'M HUNGRY/GIVE ME BREAD OR I
From: Wolfgang

I think I should add this information:
The hungry child (Piepe) and The Hungry Child (German trad.) share the lyrics but do not share the tune, as I know now.

Wolfgang