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06 Jun 11 - 08:11 PM (#3166241) Subject: Info required re: Luddites From: Soldier boy Hello there. I have been asked to help write a short play and possibly a song about the 'Luddites' as part of a themed morris event. There's not a great deal of time to do it in so I am looking for any short cuts to information that could be useful. In particular I am seeking: * Info associated with 'The Colne Valley', (west of Huddersfield), West Yorkshire, England. The Colne Valley is the setting for this event and the valley includes the main villages/wards of Longroyd Bridge, Lockwood, Paddock, Crosland Moor, Milnsbridge, Longwood, Golcar, Linthwaite, Slaithwaite and Marsden. * The main Luddite events and the major characters involved in this area of Huddersfield. * Any songs about the Luddite uprising that already exist (so I don't have to write one!) that could possibly be used within the play that are historically correct and relevant. The Colne Valley has a long history of the textile trade and once had mills and mill chimneys dominating it's entire landscape (remember "The dark satanic mills"?) and was, and still is, noted around the world for the quality of it's worsted cloth. It is also noted for the great number of weaver's cottages on the hillsides with mullioned windows facing south so weavers got the maximum number of sunlight hours to work in. I have lived in such a cottage built pre 1850 for 29 years now and that's where it all started until the machines of industrialized mass production and of course, the Luddites, came along. I want the play to be as historically accurate as possible with plenty of reference to local events and the people that shaped our history. I am also interested in seeing visual portraits/drawings/depictions of events and people and photos of settings appropriate to this theme that could add to the backdrop of the event in question. So I am hoping you can 'fast track' me to some or all of the above. Sincere thanks in anticipation dear folks. Hope you can help me out! Chris |
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06 Jun 11 - 08:40 PM (#3166254) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Q (Frank Staplin) Kirkpatrick Sale, Rebels against the future, the Luddites and their ..... A much reprinted book, copies on Abebooks for as little as $1.00. Thomis, Malcolm I, The Luddites, Machine-Breaking in Regency England. Copies reasonable. Wade, Stephen, ed., Aspects of Huddersfield, has a chapter on the Luddite Rebellion of 1812. Reasonable. These may be of some help. Should be copies in a good library. |
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06 Jun 11 - 10:05 PM (#3166277) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Bob the Postman This is the principal Mudcat Luddite thread. The lyrics to Duncan MacFarlane's "Rawfolds Mill" are posted there. And the link posted at 21 Nov 05--7:39 AM has oodles of information and song lyrics. The Yorkshire Garland site has lyrics and audio of "Cropper Lads" and "Foster's Mill". The reason I know is because I recently completed a series on the Luddites for our local co-op radio station. Podcasts available here -- scroll down to Luddites Part 4 which deals with events in Yorkshire. |
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06 Jun 11 - 10:31 PM (#3166285) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: YorkshireYankee There was a programme (2-3 weeks ago/19th May) on BBC Radio 4 called "The Luddite Lament". It is still available on Listen Again (don't know how long it will stay available, though). It's only 30 min, & sounds like just what you're looking for: "In The Luddite Lament, the award winning folk singer John Tams looks back at the machine breakers of the 19th century, through the prism of the songs they inspired. "Two hundred years ago parts of Britain were on the brink of rebellion - and you could be imprisoned for singing a song. There were said to be more troops on the border of Yorkshire and Lancashire than on the Continent with Wellington. The reason? Men armed with hammers, pikes and even guns were attacking mills in protest at the introduction of new machinery. Luddism began in the Midlands in 1811 and swept northwards to Yorkshire and then Lancashire. In just one month in 1812 a mill was attacked by over a hundred men, two Luddites were killed, a manufacturer was shot dead and then, to add to the air of fear and paranoia, the Prime Minister was assassinated. Spies and informers crisscrossed the Luddite areas passing what information they could to the authorities - but the Luddites were notoriously difficult to infiltrate. They sang songs about their exploits - about hardship, about machine breaking and about their hero General Ludd. This programme examines the story of the Luddites using some of those songs." Good luck! |
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07 Jun 11 - 01:15 AM (#3166327) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: MGM·Lion Roy Harris of Nottingham sang "Bold General Ludd" on one of his records. ~M~ |
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07 Jun 11 - 01:47 AM (#3166334) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: r.padgett As our yorkshire garland site has already been mentioned I would add the splendid new Roy Palmer book Working songs from Heron Publishing (Dave Eckersley of Todmorden) is a must. An older publication Victoria's Inferno by Jon Raven is a good source (check the libraries maybe) Ray |
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07 Jun 11 - 03:43 AM (#3166360) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: theleveller You'll find plenty of info if you Google Luddites Huddersfield. Try here for a quick summary. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maureenmitchell/luddites/luddites.htm One of the greatest tragedies was that, following the murder of mill owner, William Horsfall, 17 men and boys were hung at York (only 3 for murder) and 7 transported. When the judge was asked if so many men could hang on one gallows he callously replied that they'd hang more comfortably on two. I wrote a song about this some time ago but can't lay my hands on it at the moment. If I find it I'll post it. |
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07 Jun 11 - 03:56 AM (#3166362) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: theleveller BTW in his book The Making of the English Working Class, E P Thompson gives an interesting view of the Luddites that differs somewhat from the conventional view. |
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07 Jun 11 - 04:07 AM (#3166368) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: theleveller Oh, and coincidentally, I've just opened the copy of Francis Pryor's The Making of the British Landscape that I happen to have in my bag and there, on page 531 (Penguin Edition), is a picture of hand-weavers' houses in Saddleworth with the long upper windows. He also discusses the Luddites and the working practices of the hand weavers at the time when "...yeoman clothiers, who might have been wealthy farmers keen to diversify....would both supply yarn and buy in spun cloth from hand weavers." |
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07 Jun 11 - 04:15 AM (#3166373) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: MGM·Lion The song General Ludd's Triumph, the one which I ref'd to Roy Harris's singing of a few posts back, was posted by Teribus on 3 Feb 04, 04.43 AM, on a thread called Songs of the Industrial Revolution which I have just refreshed. ~Michael~ |
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07 Jun 11 - 04:16 AM (#3166375) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: theleveller Sorry if I'm getting boring, but I've just remembered that there's also and excellent essay in Eric Hobsbawm's Uncommon People: Reistance, Rebellion and Jazz. Right, really got to do some work now! |
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07 Jun 11 - 04:18 AM (#3166377) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: MGM·Lion I haven't yet read right thru that thread, but shall do so when I come back from shopping where I am just going ~~ & shall not be surprised if more of relevance to this thread about the Luddites should be found there. |
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07 Jun 11 - 04:24 AM (#3166381) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: theleveller Stuff just keeps jumping into my mind - I now recall that probably the best account is in Christopher Hibbert's The English: A Social History. Bye. |
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07 Jun 11 - 03:41 PM (#3166657) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Steve Gardham I have a booklet 'The Luddites in Yorkshire' by James Berry, 28pp pr in 1970 at Halifax, published by Dalesman, b/w sketches included. There will be copies in local libraries. |
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07 Jun 11 - 05:47 PM (#3166733) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Soldier boy Wow folks! A brilliant response already to my request. Thank you all very much indeed. I'm now going to start to look into the detail of all that you have supplied and mentioned here. There is so much already to be getting on with. Magnificent job. Cheers. Chris |
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08 Jun 11 - 07:20 AM (#3167014) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler The Oyster band did a version of Cropper lads with its refference to Old Enoch (the sledgehammer used to break the frames). My wife hs been looking up her family history off and on for some years and believes that she is probably related to one of the luddites killed and buried at Haslingden in Rossendale. |
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08 Jun 11 - 12:42 PM (#3167155) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: GUEST,guest chris try a lady called LESLEY kipling quite a local authority on luddites wrote one or two books on the subject last time i heard she was living up CRIMBLE CLOUGH between SLAITHWAITE N BOLSTER MOOR ALAN COX |
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08 Jun 11 - 03:30 PM (#3167230) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Acorn4 The original Ned Ludd came from the next village to us, Anstey, Leics. He was said to have been a rather dim-witted lad and broke up his master's knitting frame in a sort of teenage strop rather than any kind of economic protest hence giving his name to the movement. |
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08 Jun 11 - 03:45 PM (#3167239) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: MGM·Lion Indeed ~~ Wikipedia says ~ "...inspiration for the folkloric character of "Captain Ludd", also known as "King Ludd" or "General Ludd", who became the Luddites' imagined leader and founder... "The incident that inspired his transformation from 18th century common man to 19th century hero of the proletariat occurred when he broke two stocking frames in a fit of rage. This incident is identified as having occurred in 1779, rather than at the time of the Luddites in the 1810s." The original Ned Ludd was probably dead before the self-styled Luddites for some reason adopted his name for their "Captain", or "General": one of the more bizarre folkloric pieces of antonomasia or generic naming. ~M~ |
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08 Jun 11 - 05:46 PM (#3167293) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Acorn4 There is also a bit of a disntinction between the knitting frames of Leics/Notts and the weavers looms in the more northern counties, but both were subject to worsening conditions due to the new technology of the time. |
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08 Jun 11 - 07:29 PM (#3167331) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Soldier boy Hi Alan. I looked up Lesley Kipling and found mention of her publication "Huddersfield: a history & celebration" priced at £49.99 (1 used) - seems a bit steep for a used publication and is beyond my budget! Chris |
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09 Jun 11 - 03:17 AM (#3167472) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: theleveller "before the self-styled Luddites for some reason adopted his name for their "Captain", or "General": " Actually, I think the name was applied to them rather than being "self-styled". They referred to themselves and "General Ludd and his Army of Redressers". |
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09 Jun 11 - 01:07 PM (#3167766) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Max Johnson The Cropper Lads was the first song I ever heard sung in a folk club. Les Pope's Saddletree Folk Club at The White Horse, Ripon in 1966. Sung, not coincidentally, by The Cropper Lads. The Cropper Lads for me, And bonny lads they be. With lusty stroke the shear frames broke. The Cropper Lads for me! |
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09 Jun 11 - 07:10 PM (#3168020) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: GUEST,henryp Perhaps this will be useful; The Yorkshire Chartist Choir was formed in 2006 specially for the Chartist festival concert. Andrew Bibby researched and selected the songs. Janet Russell arranged the music and directed the choir. A Song Book with the words and music of six Chartist songs and selected readings from the writings and poems of Ernest Jones, has been produced. A few copies left: Cost £2.00. Andrew Bibby lives in Hebden Bridge; you can contact him via his web site. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rushtonchartist/page7.html |
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09 Jun 11 - 08:08 PM (#3168059) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Soldier boy Many thanks for that GUEST henryp |
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12 Jun 11 - 05:52 PM (#3169518) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Soldier boy refresh |
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16 Jun 11 - 04:48 PM (#3171651) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Arkie The Steeleye Span CD, Bloody Men, includes a series of songs bearing the title Ned Ludd. The notes have this to say: "The Ned Ludd cycle begins with a song about the enclosure movement in Early Modern England, effectively a pastoral ode to preindustrial England, and then moves on to the plight of the workers who have been displaced by industrialization. The third song is an appeal to the mythical Ned Ludd to destroy the machines and lead the workers in a rebellion. The fourth and fifth songs deal with the Peterloo Massacre of 1819, in which the British cavalry charged into a peaceful crowd of protesters supporting a repeal of the Corn Laws. Neither the Enclosure Movement nor the Corn Laws were directly related to the Luddite Movement, but in the cycle these serve to explore the wider problems of common workers." |
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16 Jun 11 - 06:08 PM (#3171688) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: migginz Try "On the Trail of the Luddites" by Lesley Kipling. I've got Ena's copy but the Museum at Golcar might have some left (if I don't get there first). Kathy |
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16 Jun 11 - 07:29 PM (#3171721) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: GUEST,henryp You can find a recording of The Voice of the People, one of the Chartist songs, sung by Calder Valley Voices here; http://caldervalleyvoices.org.uk/history/2009/concert%20leon%20rosselson%20021209.html Surprisingly, enclosure is rarely the subject of songs. However, the walking poet John Clare (1793-1864) watched as the enclosures took place and was much affected by them. They are often the subject of his verses. From; The Mores Inclosure came and trampled on the grave Of labour's rights and left the poor a slave And memory's pride ere want to wealth did bow Is both the shadow and the substance now Each little tyrant with his little sign Shows where man claims earth glows no more divine But paths to freedom and to childhood dear A board sticks up to notice 'no road here' And on the tree with ivy overhung The hated sign by vulgar taste is hung As tho' the very birds should learn to know When they go there they must no further go From; To a Fallen Elm Thus came enclosure - ruin was her guide But freedom's clapping hands enjoyed the sight Tho' comfort's cottage soon was thrust aside And workhouse prisons raised upon the site From; The Lament of Swordy Well There was a time my bit of ground Made freemen of the slave The ass no pindar'd dare to pound When I his supper gave The gipsy's camp was not afraid I made his dwelling free Till vile enclosure came and made A parish slave of me One significant consequence of the enclosures was that taking game to feed a hungry family became a crime that was heavily punished by the land-owning magistrates. Poaching frequently features in songs, as does transportation, often the penalty for poaching. From; The Voice of the People Haughty lords who claim title to moorland and hill You work men like machines in deep mine and dark mill Renounce all your riches, to us they belong Your power and position will fall to our song The wild beasts of the field and the birds of the air Were set on this earth for all people to share If we take a hare now, you say we've done wrong Give back all our commons, pay heed to our song |
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17 Jun 11 - 02:06 PM (#3172001) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Soldier boy Thanks for all your help folks; you're brill. Chris |
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18 Jun 11 - 12:07 AM (#3172173) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: GUEST I think Smithsonian Magazine had an article on the Luddites, that claimed they were an early labor movement. Anyone have any back issues? |
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04 Jul 11 - 09:05 PM (#3181530) Subject: RE: Info required re: Luddites From: Soldier boy refresh |