|
22 Jun 11 - 02:53 PM (#3174700) Subject: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: gnu I hear a lot of people saying that this piece of trash should go "straight to jail". Personally, I think he should be hung directly but that is not the issue. I find it odd that people want him to be punished NOW and don't understand that the Crown, the people themselves, have an obligation to DETAIL in PUBLIC and in court record why this lowlife will be sent to jail. Yes, he did it as the evidence is conclusive. Yes, it will cost a lot of money. Yes, it is hard on all concerned. But, it is necessary to dot all the is and cross all the ts. How can adults in Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada NOT understand our system of justice? I find it shocking. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 02:56 PM (#3174703) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Jack the Sailor From that report, I can't imagine the trial taking very long. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 03:54 PM (#3174741) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: GUEST,leeneia If there's hard evidence somewhere, I see no reason to put the victim through the spectacle of a trial. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 03:59 PM (#3174742) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: gnu But, the judge cannot wave the accused's right to trial by a jury of peers, no? |
|
22 Jun 11 - 04:00 PM (#3174744) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Jack the Sailor In this case apparently, the bulk of the evidence is the witness' testimony. The fact that she testified that he showed her his prison ID is pretty compelling. She has to be there she has to testify. There always has to be a trial that is where the "hard" evidence is presented and the accused has a chance to challenge it. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 04:04 PM (#3174746) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: GUEST,999 Much as it seems rational to try and convict a person for a crime, the trial and conviction will be held in the presence of 12 men and women who will establish his guilt based on the evidence presented by the Crown. He is entitled to the best defence available. That slope gets real slippery when folks decide they can just do it themselves. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 04:16 PM (#3174760) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: gnu 999... that's my point. I am taken aback by the lynch mob statements I am hearing. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 06:05 PM (#3174825) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Jack the Sailor It surprises me to hear you say that such talk is occurring in New Brunswick. Canada is usually all about the Law and Order. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 06:45 PM (#3174856) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: gnu Well, JtS, this guy is real scum and people are VERY upset. But, subverting the law is not an option. However, to even talk in this manner is odd to me even if they don't really, down deep, mean it. Ya gotta do it all proper and legal... then he serves his time, gets out and gets what he deserves. BTW, JtS, Hutchison died in prison last week. He and Ricky Ambrose executed the two cops in Moncton years ago during a kidnapping. You may have heard of that case back in the 70s. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 07:49 PM (#3174897) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Charmion Remember Paul Bernardo? Many upright Canadians believed then, and probably believe now, that capital punishment should have been revived just for him and his dear wife Karla, who should have hanged right beside him despite (or maybe because of) that devil's deal she struck with the Crown. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 08:14 PM (#3174905) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: gnu Yes, Charmion. Yes, indeed. Almost the same deal if not moreso. If they had the videos.... but again, it has to be entered into the public and court record. Cross the ts and dot the is. As for those pieces of trash, I shouldn't comment really, except to say that they shouldn't be breathing still. Sorry, but remembering that brings me to thread drift and defying my own OP. Certainly, there is a little lynch mob in me when I am reminded of any of these monsters. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 08:27 PM (#3174911) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: GUEST,lively "Certainly, there is a little lynch mob in me when I am reminded of any of these monsters." Precisely Gnu, it's when we imagine ourselves to be "better" or "superior" to others or "above" ugly base impulses, that the sh1t in society really starts to hit the fan. I'm all for the crossing of t's and dotting of i's, essential ugly base impulse prophylactics for preventing systemic corruption, routine miscarriages of justice, lynch mobs running amok, gun-slingers and Witch-hunters running the entire show. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 08:36 PM (#3174916) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Jack the Sailor Law and Order, Rules and Procedure, Dot the "i"s Cross the "t"s. it is the only way. |
|
22 Jun 11 - 10:56 PM (#3174963) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Rapparee "Your honor, we the jury find the defendant guilty as charged." "Good, because we hanged him an hour ago." If you read up on the vigilantes of Montana (and hereabouts) you'll find that there was almost always a trial, with the defendant allowed counsel. Not every "miners' court" ended in a hanging, either -- some were found not guilty, others were flogged, others told to clear out and not come back. Many were even given a warning to leave town or else (look up "3-7-77"). Still, that was before there was an organized system of courts and law, and the people did the best they could. Now the court system and the laws should be followed. |
|
23 Jun 11 - 02:28 AM (#3175011) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Doug Chadwick From that report, I can't imagine the trial taking very long. The report only gives what the woman says happened and that the accused has pleaded not guilty. It is, indeed, a harrowing tale and forms part of the evidence but unless it is corroborated by hard facts, it could be one person's word against another. And yet, from the report, it seems that minds have already been made up. DC |
|
23 Jun 11 - 07:12 AM (#3175120) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: alanabit Your point is a fair one Doug, if it is based on the assumption that the woman's testimony is the only evidence against the defendant. In this case, however, I believe that most posters are making the same assumption as I am: that the police have checked out that basement and found plenty of corroborating forensic evidence. I am in full agreement with Gnu, Rap, 999 and the other posters here. As it happens, I was having a similar discussion with my 15 year old daughter yesterday. She is a firm opponent of capital punishment, yet she was telling me that some crimes are so monstrous and uncomplicated that summary justice and retribution should be expected. Gnu is being honest when he writes about "my inner lynch mob". I certainly have this instinct. Our ability to deal with people, who have done monstrous things is probably one of the greatest test of our humanity. The worst thing that can happen to us is to become like those that we despise. Summary justice/injustice takes us a step closer. |
|
23 Jun 11 - 08:36 AM (#3175144) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Greg F. Law and Order, Rules and Procedure, Dot the "i"s Cross the "t"s. it is the only way. Unless your name's bin Laden, of course ..... |
|
23 Jun 11 - 09:05 AM (#3175153) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Charmion Remember Guy-Paul Morin? He would probably be dead today -- a casualty of prison "justice" -- if he had not been exculpated by DNA evidence. And there are the victims of Dr. Charles Smith, the Ontario "expert" witness whose testimony led to so many homicide charges and wrongful convictions, especially of mothers whose children died unexpectedly. The Canadian criminal justice system is clunky and awkward, often doing the right thing for the wrong reason, and the wrong thing for the right reason, but at least we have managed to do away with the death penalty. It's hard to offer restitution to a wrongfully convicted person who is 10 years dead. On the other hand, the case of Russell Williams (may his name live in infamy) shows Canadian police and prosecutors at their best: efficiently and effectively identifying the guy who done it, obtaining a full and legal confession, bringing him to court for a brisk guilty plea and then whisking him away to the penitentiary, there to stay for a very, very long time. In the Cormier case, we will have to wait for the evidence and the judgement to see if that's how it will end. |
|
23 Jun 11 - 09:45 AM (#3175163) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: GUEST,leeneia The justice system and the people are at odds in some ways. A trial is held to determine two things. Is the defendant guilty or not? If so, what should the punishment be? But what modern people want to know is - What could cause a criminal to do something so evil? How can we prevent a recurrence? How can we help the victim heal? The trial may not address any of these issues. The first issue might be addressed by the defense, which could point out, for example, that the defendant is mentally ill or brain-damaged. Other causes ("She's a meth addict.") are likely to be swept under the rug. |
|
23 Jun 11 - 10:18 AM (#3175181) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: GUEST,999 I taught math, English, and a few other courses in a maximum security prison for about one year. Met some pretty bad people from time to time. Only ever had doubts about one person in there and whether or not he should be a resident. Too, I remember reading of Willie Nepoose, Donald Marshall, David Milgaard and Guy Paul Morin. It is precisely because the law can be misled and misread and then misapplied that we need trials. No, trials didn't work in the above four cases, but some of that was cop bungling and legal manipulation (evidence not originally presented by the authorities, etc). When average citizens relinquish the responsibility to sit on juries, then indeed the system will be a waste. But, not until then I hope. Vigilante justice does work once in a while, but before ya go strap a .45 to your hip, read about the Grand Manan Five. Once we abrogate law as a final arbiter, we lose more than justice. We lose freedom, and that's worth keeping at almost any cost, imo. |
|
24 Jun 11 - 09:57 AM (#3175734) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Greg F. Hear, Hear! |
|
24 Jun 11 - 11:16 PM (#3176054) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Rapparee I completely agree, 999. The SOLE reason for the vigilantism was the LACK of courts and law enforcement. To cite but one example, when the Idaho Territory was created out of what had been parts of the Washington and Dakota Territories, the Congress failed to include the laws that were in force in the parent Territories. As a result, you could NOT commit ANY crime in Idaho until the Territorial Legislature met and made some laws! And yes, some murders did take advantage of this -- until the murdered man's wife shot them dead. After all, if THEY could murder people.... But when law enforcement became available and a formal court system was established vigilantism pretty much went away. I qualify that because there were still a very few instances of "miners' courts" and lynchings. I'm not excusing it, just trying to set the historical record straighter. Because of the secrecy of the organizations, etc. much of the record is crookeder than a snake with a broken back -- and lots of people who WERE involved either didn't write about it or changed their role in it to suit their purposes. This was not, BTW, racially motivated. Almost all of the people hanged by the Western vigilantes in the early days were white males. |
|
25 Jun 11 - 12:43 AM (#3176073) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: Jack the Sailor Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1626) "Revenge is a kind of wild justice; which the more man's nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out." |
|
28 Jun 11 - 12:33 PM (#3177841) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: gnu Hmmmm... Yahoo news... MONCTON, N.B. - A New Brunswick man accused of kidnapping a woman last year and keeping her captive in his basement apartment for almost a month says she was not held against her will and that she hatched a plan to have him kill her husband. Romeo Cormier rejected the woman's testimony from last week, telling the jury Monday he first met the woman — whose identity is protected by a publication ban — 18 years ago, describing her as an "acquaintance" of his. Cormier said he met the 55-year-old woman outside the Moncton mall where she worked on Feb. 26, 2010 — the night of the alleged abduction — a couple of hours before he said he was to kill her husband. Cormier said they walked a few blocks to the rooming house where he lived. "She had her arm around my waist and I had my arm around her shoulder," Cormier, 63, told the Court of Queen's Bench. He said he had a .22-calibre gun with him at the time and that he told the woman not to wear anything that could be identified by the police. He said they were planning to commit a criminal act. "Her husband was to be deceased between 10 p.m. and 11 p.m.," Cormier said. Cormier said after they arrived at his home, they drove to her house and parked a short distance away. He said he was nervous and standing outside the husband's bedroom window. He decided they should leave after the woman somehow cut her hand outside the house, believing she was leaving evidence, he testified. He said a car pulled into the driveway, so they left and returned to his home where she stayed the night. She was supposed to go home, but instead she told him, "I'm not going back there tonight," he testified. The defence asked if she was held against her will. "No, she was not," he replied. Cormier told the court that later that night he became upset after contemplating the severity of what they had almost done. "If I get caught for murder, I'll die in prison," Cormier said he told the woman. Cormier said he only learned there was a search for the woman three days later, when they watched the suppertime TV news. "The news comes on and there she is," he told the court. "I'm in the middle of this." Cormier said there was a news report about a $25,000 reward for information on her whereabouts. But he said the woman had a "sweeter offer" because the husband had a double life insurance policy. He said the woman reached into her purse at one point and handed him an envelope with $1,000 cash, telling him it was a down payment to show that she was serious about the alleged murder plot. Cormier testified that money was attractive to him because he just scraped by, going to the food bank and selling drugs for cash. He said they later conspired again to kill the husband. He also said he had consensual sex with the woman during her time in his apartment, contradicting her testimony that it was against her will. He said they played sex games and that she sometimes tied him up and he at one point gagged her, but he said it was all consensual. Cormier said he first met the woman when he was a courier and had to deliver a package to Newfoundland in 1993. He said they bumped into each other on a number of occasions in Moncton between 2006 and January 2010. Cormier gave specific details about the meetings and chance encounters he said he had with the woman. But Judge Zoel Dionne told the jury to ignore those specifics, because the woman was never asked about them when she testified last week. Last week, the woman testified that Cormier was a stranger to her and that the first time she saw him was when he allegedly grabbed her at knifepoint on Feb. 26, 2010. She said Cormier held her close, and at some point during their walk, he put a hooded sweatshirt over her and tied their wrists together. The woman said Cormier threatened her and sexually assaulted her during her 26 days in captivity. She said she had been bound and gagged, but escaped his basement apartment while he was out at a food bank on March 24, 2010. Cormier has pleaded not guilty to kidnapping, forcible confinement, sexual assault, assault with a weapon, theft and uttering death threats. Cormier appeared animated during his testimony Monday, often waving his arms and talking while his lawyer, Maurice Blanchard, tried to speak. He accused Blanchard of pushing his testimony along too quickly. Dionne cautioned Cormier to listen to his lawyer. "I'm very hyper," Cormier replied. "I feel like everyone's rushing me to the finish line." Cormier will continue his testimony Tuesday. |
|
06 Jul 11 - 10:57 AM (#3182435) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: gnu Romeo Cormier convicted on all charges in New Brunswick abduction trial. |
|
18 Aug 11 - 12:24 PM (#3208901) Subject: RE: BS: Justice Must be done (kidnapping nb.ca) From: gnu Well, after reading what his lawyer said, I wonder if they should throw away the key? CP, Today MONCTON, N.B. - A New Brunswick woman held captive by Romeo Cormier in a basement apartment for nearly a month where she was sexually assaulted says she feels her dignity has been taken away. A victim impact statement from the woman was read into court Thursday by the Crown at the sentencing hearing for Cormier, who was recently convicted of abducting her, sexually assaulting her and keeping her prisoner in his Moncton home for 26 days. "My whole life has been consumed by what happened to me because he has no remorse," Crown lawyer Annie St. Jacques read on the woman's behalf. St. Jacques is seeking a life sentence. "The abuse she was subjected to will have a lasting psychological affect on her," St. Jacques said. She asked for Cormier to be listed on the national sex offender registry and added that if he is not given a life sentence, she wants him to serve at least half of whatever time he is given before he is eligible for parole. Defence lawyer Robert Rideout is recommending a sentence of 10 to 12 years, minus the 17 months Cormier has already served in remand. Rideout said Cormier's crimes shocked the community — but that such behaviour is usually rooted in a mental disorder. Rideout said a psychological assessment done in May 2010 showed that Cormier has narcissism, and as a result, he has diminished empathy for other people's feelings. "These are not the acts of a normal functioning mind, but a mind driven by compulsion," he argued. He said the Crown's request to ensure Cormier serves at least half of his sentence before parole eligibility should be rejected. Last month, a jury found the 63-year-old Cormier guilty of kidnapping, forcible confinement, sexual assault, assault with a weapon, robbery and uttering death threats. The 55-year-old woman — whose identity is protected by a publication ban — testified during the trial that Cormier grabbed her at knifepoint on the night of Feb. 26, 2010, outside the shopping mall where she worked. She said she was held in the basement of a rooming house where he sometimes gagged and sexually assaulted her until she was able to escape on March 24, 2010. Cormier offered a different account, telling the court that the woman wanted to be with him and that she had enlisted him to kill her husband. |