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23 Jul 11 - 08:12 PM (#3193938) Subject: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: saulgoldie I insist that many of our social and political problems stem from too many people not being literate in human sexuality. Too many of our faulty notions of sexuality come from religious books and ancient and long-discredited social notions rather than from what we know actually is. Competent and honest sex education is far too often challenged by religious entities, and this perpetuates our faulty knowledge. I further suggest that depriving children of education about their behaviour as sexual beings is akin to child abuse. We teach them about most other aspects of bodily health, and this should be no different. If parents are sexually illiterate, then it should be done by well-informed and comfortable teachers. I further suggest that much or most of this illiteracy hurts women disproportionately. I am certain that many false notions will turn up in this thread. And I will correct them as I see them. Saul |
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23 Jul 11 - 08:15 PM (#3193943) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Uncle_DaveO Hooray for Saul! Dave Oesterreich |
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23 Jul 11 - 08:46 PM (#3193972) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: michaelr I am very sorry, saulgoldie, but I'll have to agree with you. |
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23 Jul 11 - 08:52 PM (#3193977) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Donuel On npr tonight there was a show about the sexual world of the handicapped. It was refreshing and uplifting to hear. The sexual repression of muslim boys and men are expressed in rapes of inpunity which under their laws protects the men and prosecutes the women. The sexual teachings of right wing christianity hasn't stopped anything but does make for a rich and varied world of accusation and shame. |
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23 Jul 11 - 08:57 PM (#3193979) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: DrugCrazed Hear hear. I'm too young to be a parent, but by god do they need to teach some stuff |
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23 Jul 11 - 09:04 PM (#3193983) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Bobert I was a bout 15 and dating this girl who lived down the street and one day I was over at her house and her daddy walked over to me when no one was within earshot, looked me square in the eyes and said, "You know they punch a hole in one outta three rubbers" and then walked away... I donno if that is true but I doubt it but that ain't the issue at all... Heck, I mighta made to second base with his daughter but this was like the 50s and 15 year old boys just weren't gettin' much more back then... I would have loved to have had to worry about "them rubbers"... LOL... B~ |
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23 Jul 11 - 09:19 PM (#3193992) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Bill D Definition of a 'father': A man who doesn't want HIS daughter doing what he wanted other men's daughters to do when he was their age. |
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23 Jul 11 - 09:20 PM (#3193994) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Joe Offer I sent my own three kids to Catholic high schools. Contrary to what some might expect, the schools did a pretty good job of teaching the kids what my ex and I didn't. The texts the kids used were excellent. My ex was in nursing school when the kids were in high school, so they got some of their sex education in connection with their mother's nursing school education and texts. I homeschooled my stepson through high school, and the homeschool charter school didn't offer a sex education course. My stepson is taking a human sexuality course in junior college this summer, and it seems to be excellent. There are some things that parents can't teach teenage children very well, so it's good to have a mix of parental enlightenment and good sex education in school. I think all four of my kids ended up with a pretty good mix of both. |
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23 Jul 11 - 09:27 PM (#3193995) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Dorothy Parshall Women are hurt much more by attitudes which are still demeaning and erode self esteem, by the still existing lack of decent ways to make a living, support their children in the absence of responsible men to help out. |
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23 Jul 11 - 11:49 PM (#3194044) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Ebbie Yesterday I was forcibly reminded of the long history of the oppresion and abuse of women. I was talking with a Tlinget woman - a bright, literate women who grew up in the traditional way of Alaskan Natives in Hoonah, Alaska, a village on an offshore island in Southeast. A very large part of their culture is story telling, which acts as an oral history passed down through generations. One of the taboos in Alaska Native culture is to marry within your own moiety. I'm sure it was instituted hundreds of yeas ago to prevent inbreeding. Anyway a Raven must not marry a Raven but an Eagle. If your mother was Eagle, you must find someone to marry whose mother was Raven. Rebellion has/had severe consequences. She launched into a traditional story where this woman and man married/had an affair within their own moiety. When the Elders discovered it, they took the man and put him with a different woman. They took the offending woman and bound her to a stake at the shore facing the incoming tide, where she drowned. When I remonstrated, my friend told me, The woman knew before she ever went out with him that it was taboo. I said, The man knew it too! She said, Ah, but the man couldn't help it. |
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24 Jul 11 - 12:44 AM (#3194055) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: katlaughing And, the misogyny continues in our Congress. Ebbie, it seems so many cultures thought men were so helpless in controlling their "urges" and, of course, blamed it all on the women. Sadder, still, it is happening in so many places, today. saul...I agree with you, too. |
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24 Jul 11 - 04:39 AM (#3194104) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: mauvepink Education is the way forward in a great many areas of our lives. Ignorance causes much hurt and distress. Openess - and I do not mean promiscuity - in sexual matters gets rid of ignorances when done right. When things are taboo it makes space for doubt and ignorance about true underlying feelings and reasons. Women often pay the price for a lot of this though I would never say men cannot be victims too. I'm with saulgoldie for sure on this mauve |
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24 Jul 11 - 05:03 AM (#3194110) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: GUEST,Eliza I fully agree, and would add that emotional literacy ia as important as sexual literacy. By that I mean teaching the importance of respect and kindness in relationships, that using people for physical pleasure alone is wrong, and that male and female alike should be cherished and viewed equally in all our dealings. The trouble is that the mechanics of sex are taught, but not so much the importance of love, trust and mutual respect. |
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24 Jul 11 - 05:56 AM (#3194130) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Dave Hanson In his memoirs Spike Milligan tells of him being sent to a convent school when the family lived in India, his mother asked the Mother Superior how they separated the sexes ? usualy with a crowbar the nun replied. Dave H |
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24 Jul 11 - 10:26 AM (#3194211) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge All too often the label "promiscuity" is used to condemn. Promiscuity is the abandonment of choice. So long as anyone exercises choice they are not "promiscuous". |
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24 Jul 11 - 11:01 AM (#3194229) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Big Mick The old celts had it right. They understood the cycles that drove folks and didn't assign a morality to it. Sexual curiosity and urges were as natural and obvious to them as the sun coming up. It's just sex, after all. Relax. Mick |
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24 Jul 11 - 11:43 AM (#3194245) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: akenaton The biggest danger is when information is concealed...as in the latest hiv figures. You Americans are fortunate to have an open and independent organisation like CDC to give you the facts. |
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24 Jul 11 - 11:59 AM (#3194253) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Bill D "... but the man couldn't help it."...a culturally embedded excuse for "they don't want to help it." This usually accompanies the attitude that marriage conveys ownership to a man. (That is, official ownership. Many men assume de facto ownership if a woman allows sex..) My wife learned this song many years ago: it makes a point. Ballad_of_Erica_Levine |
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24 Jul 11 - 12:04 PM (#3194257) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: McGrath of Harlow "Literacy" - what a very peculiar use of the word. "Understanding", "knowledge", "awareness", those are the kind of words that make sense here - but "literacy"... |
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24 Jul 11 - 12:10 PM (#3194262) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Mrrzy Literacy is the right term, I think, for working knowledge gleaned from education both formal and informal... like cultural literacy. Couldn't agree more. |
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24 Jul 11 - 03:31 PM (#3194426) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Ebbie I agree with Kevin- 'literacy' can be twisted and pulled to fit this idea but it is a torturous exercise. |
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24 Jul 11 - 03:50 PM (#3194437) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: gnu Well said... especially... "I further suggest that depriving children of education about their behaviour as sexual beings is akin to child abuse." A very insightful and precise observation. |
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24 Jul 11 - 06:00 PM (#3194529) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: McGrath of Harlow In the same sense that shaving is akin to suicide, I would suggest... |
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24 Jul 11 - 06:14 PM (#3194538) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: akenaton Brilliant...not lost your touch I see. :0) |
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24 Jul 11 - 06:18 PM (#3194542) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Little Hawk My father was too inhibited to tell me anything sensible about sex! ;-) (not that he didn't try...) My mother told me nothing about it. My classmates told me various silly things about it. I got quite a bit of useful information from books. And that, in the end, turned out to be good enough. |
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24 Jul 11 - 06:31 PM (#3194554) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Little Hawk My point being, any child who wants to learn facts about sex and who has a bit of initiative can do it quite readily by seeking out information him or herself...through normal literacy, in fact! ;-) It would certainly help if one got some helpful information from one's parents, teachers, etc, but if one doesn't, there are other ways. I never found religion standing in the way of my learning anything about sex, saulgoldie. It wasn't even a factor in my case, because we didn't belong to any religion nor did it play any significant role in the various schools I attended in my youth. What did play a significant role in those schools was nationalistic political bullshit. They were not teaching me to worship God when I was in school, saulgoldie, they were teaching me to worship the modern political state and to serve it unquestioningly for the rest of my natural life. So what pushes your buttons clearly doesn't push mine, if I may go by the general tenor of your opening remarks on this thread. ;-) |
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24 Jul 11 - 06:37 PM (#3194559) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Amos There is something about sex that is autodidactic. ALthough I know of one case where a couple did it wrong for years, and finally thehusband had his wife comitted for want of an heir. In the 20th century!! Mygawd. A |
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24 Jul 11 - 06:49 PM (#3194567) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: akenaton I agree with Hawk.....learning for oneself is great fun...dont complicate matters |
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24 Jul 11 - 07:03 PM (#3194576) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Jack the Sailor There is something about sex that is autodidactic. I know there is a jacking off joke somewhere in there. |
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24 Jul 11 - 07:29 PM (#3194590) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: BrooklynJay From: Jack the Sailor - PM Date: 24 Jul 11 - 07:03 PM There is something about sex that is autodidactic. I know there is a jacking off joke somewhere in there. Ah, yes there is. That's about all I dare to say. ; - ) Jay |
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24 Jul 11 - 07:35 PM (#3194595) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Little Hawk You say that couple were "doing it wrong" for years, Amos? Kind of makes one wonder just how they were doing it! ;-) (Not in the ear, I hope...) |
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02 Aug 11 - 12:07 PM (#3200197) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: saulgoldie An absolute core principle of sexual literacy is recognizing behavior boundaries. That is to say that an individual and ONLY that individual owns his or her sexual behavior and reproductive system. That means that said individual is the ONLY ONE that may give permission for sexual activity either alone or with another(s). That means that the individual is empowered to make their own contraception choices. Accepting this principle is core to one's being sexually literate. Anyone who thinks they may make these decisions for another is sexually ILLiterate. Unfortunately, too many people think they have the right to make these decisions for others. THEY are sexually ILLiterate. Saul |
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02 Aug 11 - 12:32 PM (#3200219) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: saulgoldie In order to be truly free to make decisions in one's own best interests, one must be free from force. And "force" includes the need to take care of one's basic life needs: food, shelter, etc. Hence this thread: thread.cfm?threadid=81708&messages=131 And also, hence the concept that everything is connected. Nothing is more than "3 mouse clicks" away from anything else. Saul |
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02 Aug 11 - 03:16 PM (#3200339) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: gnu Speak UP Little Hawk! |
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03 Sep 11 - 08:00 AM (#3217525) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: saulgoldie This is most certainly NOT an example of sexual literacy: http://www.alternet.org/story/152009/why_is_sean_hannity_so_mad_you%27re_having_sex_5_ways_conservatives_attack_sexual_freedom?a Saul |
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03 Sep 11 - 08:44 AM (#3217539) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Well, I'm with Little Hawk and Eliza here. But to their posts I'll add a little of my own. Could someone please explain to me why, when children now know SO MUCH about 'sex' there are more teenage pregnancies and sexual diseases around than when I was a young person? We had 30 minutes of Mrs. Smallworth giving us the most basic details possible, girls only...whilst the boys were with a male teacher. Afterwards neither side discussed anything with the other. Heck, we didn't discuss it much amongst ourselves. We were only taught what happened to girls, pretty much, although intercourse was obviously discussed, but no more personal details of what goes on with the lads. NONE of my friends became pregnant...and as far as I know, none of them had sexual diseases either, mainly because very few of us were off having 'sex' with every Tom, Dick and Harry's dick, as I've said so often before. Rather. we were there waiting for 'love' to come knockin' at the door. I went to the worst school in my area at the time too, not some prissy Girls' School, before anyone asks. Roll on several generations..... My daughter, taught everything under the sun..pretty horrified too and very embarrassed and uncomfortable to have to sit there and endure it. Afterwards the boys ridiculed the girls. They kept on and on about 'periods' and would go through girls' bags looking for tampons or sanitary towels, taking them out and messing around with them. The girls would retaliate with equal crudeness.... My daughter felt it was almost as if they were being encouraged to have sex, as she felt it almost 'expected' they would be, so this was what you had to do to protect yourself etc....... I've said before about young people being advised to have oral sex by the Think Tank that doesn't think, in Exeter University, when that particular idea was taken into some schools.... At primary school I was the ONLY parent who bothered to watch the video they were shown in Year 6 and I was horrified to be honest...as Mum and Dad were there brushing their teeth without a stitch on..and then, later, the little child got into bed with both of them, with his pyjamas on, but Mum and Dad were still starkers.. Now of course, had *I* had such a video, of my husband, myself and my daughter, which had somehow got into the public arena, no doubt Social Services would have been around to arrest us both, as parents, for dodgy goings-on in the bedroom! I mean???? WTF is going on?????? Also, in Year 6 boys and girls were all shown a very graphic film of childbirth. Why? WTF has this got to do with being 11 years old? Hells Bells, even as an adult I never got to see what was happening whilst I was giving birth, nor would I have wanted to, thanks very much! Yeesh! That would have traumatised me as a young child.... I had a childhood! I wasn't saturated with sex at every turn. My friends and I didn't even THINK about it! We were way too busy being children and enjoying ourselves.....Even in secondary school, after that 30 minute session, in Year 8 it went to the back of our minds... We were friends with the boys, but by and large they boys weren't that interested in us, still busy playing football with their mates, and we were just happy being young, dreaming of falling in love... It worries the beejayzus the way children are being forced more and more to swallow dodgy information on sex. Leave them alone, for goodness sake! I learnt much of my knowledge of love and sex from films, most of which were gentle and loving...I had absolutely no idea WHAT oral sex was until I was in my 20s...and even then it was a case of "You do WHATTTT, Walt? HOLEY MOLEY!!" :0) Love is wonderful....for it encompasses the most intimate act that is shared between two human beings in the right way. Nowadays, that 'act' has become almost akin to taking a crap..just another bodily function..... What the fook have we done to our children, eh????????????! |
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03 Sep 11 - 08:49 AM (#3217540) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 So be aware, be VERY aware of those who seek to teach our children WAY too much...and ask what the reasons behind that may be. By ALL means teach them about kindness, respect, self-respect, love, saying no, saying "Look, fook off you pervert!) but please, leave them alone to be young. We have already done so much damage, so very, very much, turning our children into Sexual Beings LONG before Mother Nature herself had ever planned...and that is wrong, so very wrong. |
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03 Sep 11 - 12:36 PM (#3217608) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Ed T Is the correct term Sexual Literacy or sexual maturity? Bill D said ""This usually accompanies the attitude that marriage conveys ownership to a man"". I suspect the traditionally accepted man and woman relationship is only one part of the complex world of sexuality, relationships children, belongings and the power struggles that comes with them. Other important elements to consider (to mention a few) are culture (including tribalism and social norma),religions and governments. |
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03 Sep 11 - 08:10 PM (#3217795) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge Lizzie: stop demonising sex. It is good. |
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04 Sep 11 - 04:42 AM (#3217901) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 I'm not demonising sex, Richard, although I am asking where the 'love' went. I am however, shouting out loud about the over-sexualisation of our children, which I think has many demons running through it, with very dodgy and disturbing agendas. You like sex without love, it would seem. For me the two run together..aif love is not there, then sex is not there.. End of. However, I appreciate we are ALL different. I have no problems with anyone doing anything, so long as it hurts no-one else, is not in my face, or all over newspapers, or indeed out in society in general. I'm fair fed up with the way the Sex INDUSTRY has contaminated so very much within young people's minds, leaving a crudeness there, a lack of self-respect and respect for others, that was never there, en masse, once upon a time. It's tough enough just growing up, without all these adults putting their worries on you that YOU should know all that they know and beyond, to the point where it clouds your vision and removes any thought of gentleness and love that you may have once had.....leaving many feeling depressed. I see a society where Love is lacking, bigtime...where de-sensitivity and promiscuousness abound... If a person does not love themselves, then how can they love another? How can they love their children? You may think it's normal to see 5 year olds dancing like Beyonce, I think it's deeply disturbing. |
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04 Sep 11 - 04:50 AM (#3217903) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge There you go again |
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04 Sep 11 - 10:50 AM (#3218020) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 So you think it's OK for children to be sexualised, Richard? Is that what you're saying? |
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04 Sep 11 - 11:41 AM (#3218039) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge What do you mean/imply by "sexualised" Lizzie? Have you asked them Lizzie? Do you remember being young? Love is neither a passport nor a gateway to sexual desire. You see the need to legitimise the latter. |
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04 Sep 11 - 11:57 AM (#3218046) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Stringsinger One false notion is the use of the term "gender" for sex. Gender refers to language usage. Sex says man and woman physically. Literacy in sex should be associated with the psychological nature of relationships. Isolating sex from these things is not educational or productive. |
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04 Sep 11 - 01:52 PM (#3218105) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Love is the answer to all the problems of this world, Richard. Sex is not. Once we 'made love' Now we 'have sex' And inbetween these times we have lost something deeply Spiritual and unbelievably Precious. |
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04 Sep 11 - 02:47 PM (#3218133) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: gnu Ahhh... no. Love is love and sex is sex. Loving sex could be loving sex or loving sex. Both are fine but having sex with someone you love is the second ultimate mental/physical experience for a human. On the other hand, an email I received the other day may help to clarify my arguements... "My wife says to me the other night, how come we don't make love like they do in the movies? So I bent her over the table, smacked her on the ass, grabbed her by the hair, called her a dirty whore, fucked her hard and then came on her face. Turns out we don't watch the same movies." |
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04 Sep 11 - 05:02 PM (#3218198) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 >>>"Ahhh... no. Love is love and sex is sex. Loving sex could be loving sex or loving sex. Both are fine but having sex with someone you love is the second ultimate mental/physical experience for a human."<<<< Ok, come on....out with it, gnu...and the FIRST is????? :0) Nope, I'm staying with Making Love, thank you very much....I didn't jump on this Sex With No Ties train..It's empty and it's hollow...like being at a Banquet but you can't taste the food. Oh, it LOOKS perfect, smells divine, but hell, when you try to taste it, there's just no ingredient that satisfies the tummy...leaving an aching hunger inside and a longing for 'what could be'.... |
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04 Sep 11 - 05:05 PM (#3218201) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge No. That is conditioning to make women subject rather than self determining. |
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04 Sep 11 - 05:21 PM (#3218205) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Wolfhound person For once, and unusually, I agree with Lizzie. Sex without love is horrible. I'd rather go without. But I accept that others mileage may vary etc etc. Paws |
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04 Sep 11 - 05:33 PM (#3218210) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Amos Literate Sexuality--not enough of it!! That's where we should be focusing our attention. Kids ought to pass an exam on "War and Peace" and "Moby Dick" before they are allowed to open their flies, is what! IF you cannot do an exegesis of "The Wasteland" you don't get to go into below-the-waist land. :D |
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04 Sep 11 - 05:36 PM (#3218211) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: gnu Hmmmm... cool. I have been celibate for a dozen years. I have known sex with someone I love... the sexual joy that makes you weep when you come. I have known the opposite when a partner trashes you by being manipualtive and just a shitty person. Fact is, I don't trust people anymore. If I knew I could have sex and nothing bad would happen, I'd fuck my brains out. If I knew I could fall in love and nothing bad would happen, I'd jump. I'd choose love over sex simply because of what I said above. But, there is nothing wrong with sex, if you are willing to take the chanceSSS. Saying otherwise is against the basic premise of this thread IMO. And, I think at least one other poster who has attemted to say sex and love are different and need not be combined exclusively. |
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04 Sep 11 - 06:02 PM (#3218219) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Big Ballad Singer The legitimate things I learned about sex were from books that the school gave us to read. Those were the facts, figures and terms. The actual how-to came from *ahem* "magazines". I basically figured that if the women in the pictures were having HALF as much fun as they were pretending to, there must be something good about what those gents were doing with/for/to them. Honestly, though, there is SO little real sexual education in the schools, and what there is gets obliterated in 10 seconds flat by the next cRap video that the kids watch. Lizzie is absolutely right; there was a time in our history when young people were told about finding a husband or wife and falling in love. What happened in the bedroom was for people in committed, loving relationships to know, or at least to discover together. These days, you have CHILDREN, not young adults, but 6- and 7-year-olds revealing WAY too much in their manner of dress and being allowed to simply accept and legitimize sexual behaviors that are not only dangerous in their promiscuity, but DEADLY in their abandonment of anything resembling love and commitment to one's sexual partner as a WHOLE person. What kids today know about SEX, in terms of what to put where, is way beyond what any of us probably definitively knew at their age. What they know about SEXUALITY, about how sex is just one part of our abilities and our worth as human beings, is laughably deficient. When young people are once again taught how to behave toward one another in society, then maybe one day they will be able to care about one another to deserve to be taught how to express mature, responsible sexuality. It will be VERY different than their imitations of the gutter-trash morons that flood our media today in the guise of "entertainment". |
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04 Sep 11 - 06:32 PM (#3218233) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge That looks like a new and invented meaning to "promiscuity" dragged in to try to prop up the shibboleths about sex that generations of religions have used to enslave people. It's not so much a matter of "let my people go" as "let my people come". I expect dinosaurs were enraged at those damned mammals not waiting to lay eggs. |
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04 Sep 11 - 06:40 PM (#3218237) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: gnu Good points on both sides. As I am not knowledgeable about what children are taught in school or at home, I shall extricate myself from my thread drift. gnightgnu |
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04 Sep 11 - 08:02 PM (#3218259) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Big Ballad Singer New and invented meaning of "promiscuity", eh? What would YOU call it when preteen children are exposed to "stars" who don't have enough sense to cover their bodies decently? I think they're being desensitized to PROMISCUITY. See, Merriam-Webster's definition of promiscuity contains the idea of indiscriminateness. That means a person acts like they don't give a damn who sees what, or who gets to touch what where. All they care about is their stated goal, which is looking (and being admired for looking) "sexy", "fabulous" or whatever. Our children are routinely exposed to women who behave like common whores and dress accordingly. Our society makes millionaire celebrities out of people who have nothing to recommend them but their social calendars and/or cleavage. The problem with people like you, Mr. Bridge, is that you'd like for everyone to just be able to have what amounts to total liberty when it comes to sexuality. I'm sure something akin to the rule of an individual's conscience will eventually appear in your comments. Tell me how allowing the indiscriminate celebration of and elevation of shallow, loveless sexuality is going to be any kind of help to our world when more and more young men and women are led into ruined lifestyles because their "freedom" to be "sexy" DROVE them to shag, get pregnant, catch diseases or propagate an even more rape-saturated culture than we already have. |
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04 Sep 11 - 09:49 PM (#3218280) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Smokey. I never do nothing I can't spell. |
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04 Sep 11 - 11:29 PM (#3218304) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: ripov To get totally back on thread.- I don't agree. Political problems stem from a lust for power and riches, and an inability to understand the word "truth" on the part of those in power. The sexuality of government members is normally a cause for their downfall (applause), mainly because the media have a (deliberately) distorted view of sex. Social problems today stem in part from the false representation of life by the media. People's expectations are based on a distorted view of reality (yes, this is only a part of it). Regarding children, truthful open discussion, bearing in mind their age/experience, is always appropriate. Never lie to them. They will remember and hold it against you! Sex is a big bit of life. Even with no sex education at all, kids will still mature, mate, and reproduce! Some women are abused. This is bad, but it is not normally as a result of their ignorance, rather as a result of people similar in nature to politicians. Some men are abused. By the same type of people. Regarding religion, I am not well informed on other than christianity, but the bible (Song of Solomon) praises physical love, and the NT only requires a woman to remember she is not actually the 'top dog'. And much as I would like to disagree with Richard, it also says "all things are lawful, but not all things are expedient". Obviously not with regard to the law he knows so well. If you both want sex, that's good, enjoy it..but if you want each other, that's a far better thing. Sex isn't difficult. How can one be illiterate about sex? Misinformed (is that what you mean by illiterate?) maybe, a different matter. Relationships, and particularly the difference in thinking between the genders, is totally another thing. Another day, another thread. |
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05 Sep 11 - 03:44 AM (#3218355) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 This is just ONE example...where FIVE year olds are being targetted for 'sex education'. Bear in mind that Channel 4, who made this particular video, is the channel responsible for more pornography being screened on British TV than any other channel...and did much to lower the standards across the board to the level where now almost 'anything' goes on some TV channels. Parents describe sex education video for primary schools as 'disturbing' Now someone explain to me WHY 5 year olds need to have ANY sex education at all? You see, we didn't. Not only that, but if a teacher had even tried to talk to us at that age about anything to do with sex, he/she would have probably been arrested and banned from teaching for life. Our parents would have been shocked and outraged...and quite rightly so. >>>>>Scenario: You know the person coming to see you is a convicted paedeophile. He's done well since leaving prison and now runs his own film company. He makes 'educational videos' for schoolchildren of ALL ages and today, he is visiting your school. He knows there is no National Curriculum for Sex Education in the UK, it being down to each individual head teacher. He comes in, sits down, runs through facts and figures with you, tries to convince you how desperately important it is that your children watch his video....and then, you watch it together...and you start to feel slightly uncomfortable. By the end of the screening, you are almost screaming inside, your whole mind and body repulsed at what is running through your head, whlst he merely sits there, a disturbing smile on his face..... You decline his film. You kick him out, almost yelling abuse at him. Three weeks later, a package arrives on your desk. It is his video...and with it is a letter from those within The Edukashon System telling you that this is now acceptable material for your children to view, and it is advised that you use it. Of course, it may well be 'ordered' that you use it. What would you do? For sure, you'd know that he would be at home, that disturbing smile upon his face once again, knowing that yet another class of 5 year olds has been placed on the Lolita Conveyer Belt of Sex, their minds filled with thoughts that were not there, prior to viewing that video... And next year, they get to watch his next film...and the next and the next... By the time they are 16 they have been completely 'groomed' and are raring and ready to go out into the world to spread the message even louder, demanding that THEIR children are taught about sex at Kindergarten because it is a HUGE and VERY IMPORTANT part of life and the earlier children get to know this, the better...... And Little Lolita weeps in her lonely bed, her body bruised from sex, her soul abused by it.... Her Spirit crying out for something she has never been taught about..... Love End of scenario <<<<<<<<<<< |
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05 Sep 11 - 03:53 AM (#3218358) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 This is another little 'nifty' number from Channel 4. They took this round the country as they felt it was such a winner.... What they did was load up their audience with young people, then discuss every aspect of everything, so that 'our young people would be informed!' (My God, what crap!) Of course, it was also shown on TV, so anyone of any age could watch it..and we all know that little kids are left to watch anything these days, so many with TVs in their bedrooms... I watched one show. They brought on elderly people, stark naked, to apparently show young people how they'd age. They obviously were more than a little interested in the sexual organs...the makers of the show that is, not the audience, who were subjected to this information. Channel 4 - The Sex Education Show Someone explain this to me, please...... You see, I come from a time when nothing like this was even in people's minds! Of course, it would be interesting to know how many Corporate Sex Industry Bastards have links with schools, TV programmes, papers (we know the Daily Express and Channel 5 is owned by a pornographer) fashion, toys etc... The sickening list is endless.....and some folks on here are NOT asking WHO WHAT and WHY is behind this huge change in social attitudes, often because they are terrified of being made fun of, or ridiculed or being made out to be some frigid ol' woman who loathes sex.... Clever, huh? |
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05 Sep 11 - 05:14 AM (#3218381) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge The question is very simple. Is sex a good thing that only needs restrictions where there is a good reason, or is it a bad thing that needs to be controlled and licensed by "love" or matrimony? Lizzie is clearly in the latter camp, and wants to promote ignorance and fear. But the idea that there was a golden time when sex was not on people's minds is incredible even by her standards. Anyone who thinks there is pornography on Channel 4 TV (UK) needs to get out more. Or maybe stay in more, in the right company. |
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05 Sep 11 - 06:01 AM (#3218389) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Men think about sex far more than women do, Richard. I think even you would agree with that. Women, up until very recently mostly needed some form of emotional connection to the person they made love to....(hard when I call it 'making love' ain't it?) ;0) Maybe this is purely down to a nature thing, inasmuch as left to nature women weren't promiscuous because they were the ones who bore the children. Men and Women are different, for very different reasons. Those who have sought, and seek to this day, to make us the same are doing much damage. However, this is about children, I believe and what they should or should not be told etc.... Children's minds are not 'naturally' filled with sexual thoughts at all, unless they have been groomed to think this way. In my opinion, there's one helluva lotta GROOMING going on out there at present and we adults have turned a blind eye, indeed many encouraging it themselves, having already been groomed themselves... Deeply disturbing. Viva Making Love Down with 'Sex' And tough titties on the men and women who can't bear to have any emotional attachment involved, 'cos we 'Making Love Lovers' ain't gonna end up detached and indifferent. It's a Spiritual Thing. :0) |
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05 Sep 11 - 11:50 AM (#3218523) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Wesley S Lizzie - Ever heard of the "Anti-Sex League"? It's from a book. But you'd need a red sash. |
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05 Sep 11 - 04:05 PM (#3218648) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Has to be all wrapped up in Love, for me, Wesley, that's all. |
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05 Sep 11 - 07:54 PM (#3218753) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge Lizzie, you are a prisoner to think that honest lust requires legitimation. It takes two to want to tango. If one wants to more than the other, that makes sex commonly at best a transaction, at worst coercion. As far as I recollect studies evaluated that the people the most prone to sexual fantasy were overweight women - presumably because they were not top of the pecking order (if I can put it that way). |
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05 Sep 11 - 08:07 PM (#3218760) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 REALLY Richard, gosh, I'd a thought you'd have been Mr. Pecking... ;0) Sex Imprisons. Love Frees. |
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06 Sep 11 - 01:41 AM (#3218842) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge Other way round |
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06 Sep 11 - 01:49 AM (#3218843) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Smokey. Each to his own.. |
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06 Sep 11 - 03:32 AM (#3218860) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "Nobody dies from lack of sex. It's lack of love we die from." - Margaret Atwood In The Light of Love - Deva Premal and Miten |
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06 Sep 11 - 04:56 AM (#3218877) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge Nonsense. Nobody dies from lack of love either. It is undeniable that love is most trammelling, imposes all sorts of obligations, and its ending can be most traumatic. If it is to be meaningful it is not to be lightly given. Insistence on it as a gateway to sex leads to the sad sad lifetime of celibacy - and has an equally poor tendency not only for the person choosing to buy into that myth but for others who would otherwise be contiguous. No-one is arguing for obligatory sex, but those who deny sex its own validity are denying themselves much, because of an outmoded construct largely created by patriarchal societies in which women were owned, developed by religions who used oppressive contexts to collect monetary repentance and increase their controls, and furthered by the Victorian virginity fetish that we now rightly see as a manifestation of paedophilia. Worse, they tend to want to cause others to be denied, showing the judgmental and oppressive attitudes sprayed around here. Women should have the right and freedom to choose without brainwashing. |
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06 Sep 11 - 05:26 AM (#3218891) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "Women should have the right and freedom to choose without brainwashing." Absolutely. I choose Love. And as for 'brainwashing of women' I agree again, because I look around and see young women who now think Pole Dancing is something to aim for, aspire to and have almost been 'bullied' into believing they should be having sex 24/7 with any man who wants it, or any man they think they want. They are hard, predatory creatures who appear to go out hunting in packs, looking men up and down in the very way men used to look at women...and for that men were criticised hugely by many women. I think it was Billy Crystal who said: "Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place." Obviously, he was generalising there..but you get the gist, see the difference. How sad it is that you seem to be arguing for women to 'just need a place' too, Richard. And our children should have childhoods, not endless 'lessons' on sex or their sexuality. Just leave them alone. WHY people even associate children with sex I've no idea. It's like some sort of plague that's swept through society... We were left almost entirely alone from sex 'education' and we all did pretty well, I think..far happier than so many young people around these days. And to be honest women were far more feminine, softer and nurturing than many are these days. I think it troubles many young girls that they feel so pressurised to have sex, long before they may actually feel ready for it. It's almost as if they switch off something inside, just to get through it all. Most women are naturally feminine and left alone, nature take it's course as it has done for centuries, without any interference from Academics or Scientists. Yes, by all means teach that women are equal to me as human beings and each commands as much respect from and towards the other, at all times. Teach that women belong only to themselves, not to men, nor to Corporate Sex Industry Bastards, who, for the most part are men... Kindness, understanding and compassion to each other is far more important a lesson to be learnt than 'oral sex'...which, to be honest, has NOTHING to do with schools, or teachers at all. If someone wants to have open, rampant, non-commital sex with someone else who feels exactly the same, and ALL they are interested in is the physical act, then fine if that's what floats their boat....but do NOT try to tell our children that this is what they must do, for that is, imo, perverted and dangerous. Tell me, Richard, did you ever, when your daughter was young, as in 3 or 4, think that one day little girls would be dressed as, and acting like, Little Lolitas in their body language and awareness of themselves? Did you ever think your daughter would go out hunting with her friends, as I recall you saying once, a long time ago.... Open your eyes, man. Look beyond...and try to see how so many young women have been manipulated. See how pressured they are and how empty many of them feel.... |
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06 Sep 11 - 05:28 AM (#3218892) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 "Yes, by all means teach that women are equal to me as human beings " Obviously, that should read MEN, not me. :0) |
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06 Sep 11 - 05:38 AM (#3218894) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 This is GREAT..................if you're a Paedeophile... Teaching 5 year olds about Sex Taken from the link above: >>>>"....Even in this highly sexualised world, most youngsters wouldn't even recognise the word But that's not good enough for today's so-called sex education experts, as a worrying new investigation has revealed. It found five-year-olds are not only being given the sort of sex education lessons that used to be reserved for teenagers, but that they are also being bombarded with graphic images and descriptions of adult sexual acts. There are comic-book-style pictures of different sexual positions, cartoon explanations of masturbation and orgasm, and crayoned drawings that are supposed to explain the difference between heterosexuality and homosexuality — with anal sex getting a special mention. For five-year-olds! So much for an age of innocence. Teenagers can legally drive a car when they are 17, but we wouldn't dream of starting to teach them how to do it when they are five. So why is it suddenly different when it comes to sex? Answer: it isn't. Five-year-olds — in common with six, seven and eight-year-olds — are simply not emotionally ready for this sort of information. Their bodies aren't ready for sex and nor are their minds. It plays no part in their lives and that, in my opinion, is exactly how it should stay....."<<<< |
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06 Sep 11 - 06:52 AM (#3218918) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Nigel Parsons Lizzie: And as for 'brainwashing of women' I agree again, because I look around and see young women who now think Pole Dancing is something to aim for, Do I take it from this that you believe pole dancing demeans the women doing it? I prefer to take the view that it demeans the men who pay to watch. I take the same view of the 'models' who used to pose for page 3 of the Sun. They are taking advantage of week willed men, and getting paid well for the experience. |
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06 Sep 11 - 06:57 AM (#3218922) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Nigel Parsons Erratum for 'week' read 'weak'! |
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06 Sep 11 - 07:59 AM (#3218933) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Of course pole-dancing demeans women.... Sigh........ |
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06 Sep 11 - 08:55 AM (#3218946) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Wesley S Hey - The Poles have every right to dance if they want to. |
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06 Sep 11 - 09:14 AM (#3218958) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Richard Bridge Honestly, I think all I need to do is rest my case. |
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06 Sep 11 - 12:12 PM (#3219027) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Donuel Catholic Priests have for decades been trying to get thier children to bone up on sexual literacy with kids as young as five. This is of course, "too young, too much, too sick and has gone on too long with special vatican dispensation, payoffs, denial and sickly excuses". The only other religion I know that has child sex interwoven with church operations are the child brides of fundamentalist Mormons, and those criminals go to prison. Why are no Priests serving time? Needless to say it is the crimes of individual men and not particular religions which are to blame, but it still leaves the question of why Priests are generally excluded from prison sentences regarding rape, molestation and child abuse. Is the Vatican arrogant and foolish enough to believe that their building is invulnerable or that they are truely infallible? Indeed the vatican is sexually ILLiterate. |
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07 Sep 11 - 05:25 AM (#3219403) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Nigel Parsons Of course pole-dancing demeans women.... Sigh........ Nice to get a carefully considered & argued response. |
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07 Sep 11 - 06:47 AM (#3219430) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Truly, I don't have to think about it, whatsoever. You's want a daughter of yours to aspire to this? |
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07 Sep 11 - 06:50 AM (#3219433) Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Literacy: Not Enough of it. From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Arrgghhh! Excuse the 's' where there should be a 'd' Oh how I WISH Mudcat had an 'edit' button. Yes, I know...there's the preview bit, but even then you can miss things, or simply forget to 'preview' in the first place...It's one of the few things I like about Facebook, that you can go back and edit, after posting. Sorry.... And now back to the thread.... |