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21 Aug 11 - 11:47 PM (#3210670) Subject: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Goose Gander Rebels in, Ghadafi Out. Dang . . . |
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22 Aug 11 - 01:29 AM (#3210698) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Joe Offer Well, I think that's good news. Hope so, anyhow. Too often, when dictators are toppled by revolution, the rebels only become worse dictators. -Joe- |
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22 Aug 11 - 09:02 AM (#3210823) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Charley Noble Joe- Don't you think that this posting might be best combined with existing thread with a thread title change (Libya Liberated by Rebels)? Charley Noble
-Joe- |
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22 Aug 11 - 09:22 AM (#3210830) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Ron Davies "worse dictators". Based on the evidence as to how the rebels have been governing Benghazi, it does not seem likely to be the case for Libya. |
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22 Aug 11 - 10:54 AM (#3210881) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Dorothy Parshall We can only HOPE things will truly get better. |
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22 Aug 11 - 11:38 AM (#3210912) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: bobad The end of a tyrant is worth celebrating -- congratulations and best wishes to the people of Libya. |
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22 Aug 11 - 01:15 PM (#3210959) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Brian May I used to travel through Tripoli a fair bit travelling from Lagos to Europe. The people I met there were very polite and friendly. I can only wish them the best, and hope their country can get back on its feet as soon as possible. |
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22 Aug 11 - 01:26 PM (#3210967) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: gnu I have no opinion about Quackdaffy's past "rule" but I hope this means the bloodshed will be over sooner than later. |
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22 Aug 11 - 01:58 PM (#3210986) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Q (Frank Staplin) Could this be called the pickup war? Pickup trucks as troop carriers, fitted out with rocket launchers and machine guns, and soldiers uniforms of T-shirt and chinos- truly a peoples army. Quadafi called on tribesmen to come to his aid, but they ignored the call. I wish them well. |
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22 Aug 11 - 02:10 PM (#3210992) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: GUEST,bankley Let the colonial looting begin |
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22 Aug 11 - 02:47 PM (#3211010) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: gnu bankley... you mean looting by BP? |
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22 Aug 11 - 02:57 PM (#3211016) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: bobad Well, it'll take some looting to equal the estimated 200-250 billion dollars in oil revenue looted by Saif Al-Islam Gaddafi in just the past ten years since he's been in charge of economic matters in Libya. |
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22 Aug 11 - 03:58 PM (#3211041) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: GUEST,bankley well, he spent a lot on his own country...lowest umemployment rate in North Africa and was setting up a Pan-African bank to give low and interest free loans to poorer nations which pissed off the IMF.. I'm not defending his quirky persona, but I don't believe the 'official' reason for NATO getting involved. Protecting civilians, my ass... we've killed way more in the last 5 months than he did... so if we're really interested in humanitarian war, what about Bahrain, Yemen, Syria,,,to mention a few... never mind about the tyrants in Saudi Arabia... so basically I see us backing a sketchy bunch of Jihadis to get at resources once again... time will tell, soon enough |
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22 Aug 11 - 04:11 PM (#3211045) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: gnu bankley... I think you answered my question. |
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22 Aug 11 - 04:18 PM (#3211048) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: kendall Now our oil will be safe. Right. There will be a civil war between differing tribes and no one knows where it will end. |
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22 Aug 11 - 04:33 PM (#3211057) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: bobad Well you all can sit around and cook up conspiracy theories, wring your hands and cry that the sky is falling but I am celebrating, along with the people of Libya, their liberation from tyranny. |
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22 Aug 11 - 05:12 PM (#3211077) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Charley Noble bobad- I agree. It's a time for quiet celebration. I'll drink to that. Charley Noble |
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22 Aug 11 - 07:00 PM (#3211121) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: bobad "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." - Jack Layton |
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22 Aug 11 - 09:15 PM (#3211183) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: michaelr Now to get that bastard Assad out of Syria -- he must be shaking in his Guccis. |
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22 Aug 11 - 11:52 PM (#3211234) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Ron Davies Libya still needs some attention before turning it anywhere else. Saif has escaped (he was only under house arrest). BBC says pro-Gaddafi troops have been reinforcing resistance to the rebels. Saif says (BBC interview) the easy access to Tripoli was a trap for rebels. Who knows what he meant by that?. But it may not be over by quite a bit. |
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23 Aug 11 - 12:15 AM (#3211241) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: michaelr The BBC interviewed Gaddafi's son? Talk about easy access!? |
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23 Aug 11 - 07:10 AM (#3211318) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Ron Davies Yes, they themselves were surprised it was so easy to interview Saif. Among other things, the rebels, not being hardened fighters, did not realize they needed to keep Saif much more closely under guard. And there still may well be at least one more hard-fought battle. As I said, Libya will need more attention before the West turns its focus elsewhere. As I noted earlier, euphoria is not a good strategic attitude. |
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23 Aug 11 - 08:41 AM (#3211360) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: kendall I'm glad he's gone, I'm also a realist. |
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23 Aug 11 - 10:01 AM (#3211401) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Ron Davies He's not quite gone yet. Hopefully soon. |
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23 Aug 11 - 10:29 AM (#3211413) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Charley Noble If a dictator falls in Tripoli and CNN is not there to observe his fall, did he fall? Saif certainly seems to be enjoying his moment with the media. But he may not have much time left to play them. His reappearance has to be a major embarrassment to the Interim Council. Charley Noble |
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23 Aug 11 - 10:37 AM (#3211417) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Charley Noble That should be the National Transitional Council (NTC) above. Here's an update clip from Al Jazeera: Libyan rebels have reportedly entered the fortified compound of leader Muammar Gaddafi in Bab al-Azizya in Tripoli, amid intensified fighting with regime forces. According to reports that could not be independently verified, rebels have entered the compound at least through one gate. "It is very clear that there is a major battle raging within that compound," Al Jazeera's James Bays said, reporting from Tripoli. Fighting also continued across the capital for a second day on Tuesday, and columns of grey smoke were seen billowing over the Bab al-Azizya area with the sound of gunfire and occasional explosions ringing out. Opposition forces were concentrating their firepower on Gaddafi's compound, Al Jazeera reported.. Charley Noble |
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23 Aug 11 - 10:47 AM (#3211420) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Charmion Watch and shoot ... |
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23 Aug 11 - 01:01 PM (#3211477) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Charley Noble Gahdafi's compound is reported captured by CNN at noon. Charley Noble |
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23 Aug 11 - 01:48 PM (#3211506) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Bill D Has no one told those happy idiots that bullets fired UP in celebration come back DOWN? |
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23 Aug 11 - 03:45 PM (#3211600) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Charley Noble Evidently not. And one of the Rebels is now being shown on video wearing Gadhafi's hat. He looks quite pleased. Charley Noble |
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23 Aug 11 - 03:56 PM (#3211604) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: gnu I can't see why he'd be happy. It has no brim and it's sunny and hot over there most of the time, so I hear. I'd much rather have a peaked cap. Much more practical, no? |
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23 Aug 11 - 04:01 PM (#3211609) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: gnu Hmmmm... I can't help but think... "To the shores of Tripoli..." and THEN something to ryhme with BP to update the battle song. Beth must be having a cordial with Phil just about now. I wonder if Bea will join them? |
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23 Aug 11 - 04:07 PM (#3211615) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Q (Frank Staplin) Tripoli has a Mediterranean climate- warm to rather hot summers and cool winters. Northerners spend billions in winter traveling to vacation spots which are even warmer. August is the hottest month in Tripoli, averaging 81.5 F (27.5 C). Cooler than much of the U.S. in the same period. |
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23 Aug 11 - 04:09 PM (#3211617) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: GUEST,Bluesman Possibly a civil war next ? |
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23 Aug 11 - 05:07 PM (#3211658) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: gnu Q... I still wouldn't want Quackdaddy's hat on accounta I am from the Merrytimes and I just can't take any amount of sun or heat at my age. If I was in the southern USA this summer, I might buy me an AK and go postal too. Hmmm... is BP back in the Gulf yet? |
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23 Aug 11 - 06:07 PM (#3211686) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Q (Frank Staplin) BP has been in the Gulf for many years, and has interests in many wells. Drilling in the Gulf has been going on since before WW1. Some 3900 active wells, and many more abandoned. |
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23 Aug 11 - 06:23 PM (#3211699) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Richard Bridge It was really a NATO military campaign, the pretence of protecting civilians largely having been long since abandoned and news commentators having generally referred to the NATO/US campaign to oust Gadaffi. Which may well have been morally desirable but is a poor figleaf for the illegal military aggression against a foreign power. If the US (etc) were "right" to do that then so is Al Quaeda "right" to make strikes in foreign countries against regimes (and economic regimes) that oppose their interests. You can't have it both ways. |
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23 Aug 11 - 06:51 PM (#3211711) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Charley Noble Richard- "It was really a NATO military campaign, the pretence of protecting civilians largely having been long since abandoned and news commentators having generally referred to the NATO/US campaign to oust Gadaffi." Perhaps you should fly to Libya and explain that to the Rebels. Certainly NATO airpower and training were essential to this victory but it couldn't have happened if there wasn't widespread public support. This "war of liberation" seemed very different to me than GWB's war to oust Saddam Hussain. Charley Noble |
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23 Aug 11 - 07:04 PM (#3211716) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: gnu A valid point for consideration, Charley. Q... "Some 3900 active wells, and many more abandoned." Gosh! I had no idea it was on that scale. |
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23 Aug 11 - 07:36 PM (#3211724) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: gnu And lets keep perspective eh? Afghanistan is a "live" military training exercise field testing weapons and battle training troops. It's an extremely cheap way of preparing for future conflicts if you discount the lives of the enemy as being desirable to kill on behalf of some half-assed threat to our freedom or the freedom of an oppressed group that.... oh, fuck it. The boiled ham supper with fresh beans and cabbage and carrots and spuds was excellent... I am stuffed... who cares about some raghead getting shot by a sniper at 2.5km distance... it's all good training eh. And the fresh beans are to die for! |
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24 Aug 11 - 01:00 AM (#3211831) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Goose Gander Richard, if NATO had chosen to sit this one out, or to give support to Gadhafi (neither scenario is hard to imagine), I do not doubt that you would now be giving stern, moralistic lecture on the perfidy of NATO. |
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24 Aug 11 - 01:01 AM (#3211832) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Goose Gander After all, you can't have it both ways, Richard. |
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24 Aug 11 - 01:45 AM (#3211836) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Teribus "Richard- "It was really a NATO military campaign, the pretence of protecting civilians largely having been long since abandoned and news commentators having generally referred to the NATO/US campaign to oust Gadaffi." Yes and that is the problem isn't it? How MSM report things, and it has been a problem for quite some time. 1: It was MSM who reported that Iraq was a single issue problem about WMD - it wasn't, it was about compliance with UNSCR 687 and ensuring that Iraq did not have WMD - different thing entirely. 2: It was MSM in the UK who came out with the 45 minute claim that Iraq could strike the UK within 45 minutes. Actually read what was written and presented in the Dossier on Iraq and what it states is perfectly accurate. 3: It was MSM who in their reporting of Afghanistan have consistantly refused to acknowledge or report that Afghanistan is a UN mission, they almost point blank refuse to make any mention of UNAMA, ISAF or the ANSF. Instead they refer to US, UK or NATO leading to support the myth that the US "invaded" Afghanistan. Pssst - Richard Just because news commentators say something does not necessarily mean they are reporting accurately, factually or truthfully. By the way what is a NATO/US campaign when it's at home? I thought that the USA was a member of NATO and that in this particular case NATO were specifically requested to act by the UN Security Council, the Arab League and the GCC (Again something else your news commentators fail to mention. |
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24 Aug 11 - 07:26 AM (#3211939) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Ron Davies You may have heard this, but if not, it's worth sharing. As you know, most foreign reporters have been restricted to one hotel in Tripoli by the regime for quite a while. It is now under siege by the rebels. But even before this, the reporters had named the hotel "California". |
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24 Aug 11 - 09:15 AM (#3211981) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Charley Noble According to news reports this morning: A defiant Muammar Qaddafi vowed Wednesday to fight on "until victory or martyrdom." or until he could book first class passage out to Venezuela. Charley Noble |
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24 Aug 11 - 05:30 PM (#3212191) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: bobad Some views of life in Libya under the dictator whom some of you admire: "Veteran BBC foreign correspondent Kate Adie remembers her visits to Libya. "You heard whispers, you heard rumours. Years ago, the Italian ambassador told me he had complained of the screams they could hear overnight. He said that they found rubbish skips with limbs in them in the morning. That's the kind of place it was." A fleeing Croatian mercenary gives an account of his experiences fighting for Gaddafi in Time, some excerpts: "My men were mainly from the south [of Libya] and Chad, and there were a few others from countries south of Libya," said Mario, who spoke on condition that his last name not be published. A veteran of the wars of the former Yugoslavia, he had been hired by the Gaddafi regime to help fight the rebels and, later, NATO. "Discipline was bad, and they were too stupid to learn anything. But things were O.K. until the air strikes commenced. The other side was equally bad, if not worse. [Muammar] Gaddafi would have smashed the rebels had the West not intervened." "Away from the front, at the heart of the regime, mistrust and excess further undermined Gaddafi's hold on power, Mario said. "Life in [Gaddafi's] compound and shelters was so surreal, with partying, women, alcohol and drugs," said Mario, 41. "One of the relatives of Gaddafi took me to one of his villas where they offered me anything I wanted. I heard stories about people being shot for fun and forced to play Russian roulette while spectators were making bets, like in the movies." http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2090205,00.html |
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24 Aug 11 - 08:27 PM (#3212260) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: bobad How dictators' families live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIPRdqClKnQ&feature=youtube |
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24 Aug 11 - 11:22 PM (#3212315) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: Mrrzy Falling, falling, falling... |
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25 Aug 11 - 02:10 AM (#3212351) Subject: RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Joe: "Too often, when dictators are toppled by revolution, the rebels only become worse dictators." RE: BS: Tripoli Falls to Rebels Yeah, sorta' a misnomer...FALLS(?)...I mean, if its a 'good' thing, wouldn't you say it was 'raised'......or 'razed'? Wink and a wave, Gfs |