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05 Aug 01 - 02:52 PM (#521456) Subject: Lyr Add: THE LETTER From: John Routledge This song was sung in UK in '60's and was an English version of french origional as earlier thread indicates. Any ideas about missing verse? THE LETTER This letter gentlemen is to you politicians You men in high positions please read it if you can When I awoke today orders were waiting for me To go and join the army at once without delay I shall not gentlemen thats why I write this letter To say that men had better refuse to fight again My words are blunt I am sure I don't want to upset you I only want to let you know that we are sick of war I've seen for many years how they have killed the others Seen brothers snatched from brothers and children left in tears Mothers with swollen eyes weep while the rich not caring Too busy profiteering grow fat on crimes and lies If blood is to be shed shed yours you politicians You men in high positions and be it on your head Follow me if you will turn out your men and arm them Tell them I will not harm them disarmed I'm safe to kill Repeat first verse. There is a further verse only one line of which I can recall "This sapping of the spirit this theft of what we were" Any ideas on the missing verse. Cheers John |
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05 Aug 01 - 03:00 PM (#521461) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: nutty Thanks John.... I've wanted these words for so long I hope itjogs someone's memory. |
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05 Aug 01 - 04:22 PM (#521500) Subject: Lyr Add: LE DÉSERTEUR^^ From: GUEST,Jim Dixon The song you have posted sounds like a translation of this French song:
LE DÉSERTEUR
Messieurs qu'on nomme grand,* Je vous fais une lettre
Depuis que je suis né J'ai vu mourir des frères.
Je mendierai ma vie Sur la terre et sur l'onde *Some versions use "Monsieur le président" (Mr. President) Here is my own rather literal translation. I have tried to make it idiomatic, but it is not necessarily singable: THE DESERTER
Sirs, you who are called "great," I am writing you a letter
Since I was born, I have seen brothers die.
I will beg for my livelihood on land and sea, |
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05 Aug 01 - 04:38 PM (#521508) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: John Routledge Great stuff Jim When I have digested your translation particularly the second verse it may fully jog my memory. Amazing how I remembered the rest word perfect but almost nothing of the bit in the middle! Many Thanks John |
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06 Aug 01 - 12:51 PM (#521923) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: Jim Dixon Whoa! I posted that song while working at the library yesterday. I was working in haste, using unfamiliar software, and I didn't notice that the accented letters got all goofed up. Hopefully it is fixed now. I found the above French text at Peter, Paul, and Mary's Web site. Peter Yarrow sang this song entirely in French on their album "In Concert," 1964, introducing it with a spoken translation of only four lines. I found the following version at a French lyrics site Méli Mélo Songs. It has some significant differences, which I have marked with boldface. I suspect this version is more authentic: LE DÉSERTEUR (Boris Vian, 1954)
Monsieur le président Je vous fais une lettre
Depuis que je suis né J'ai vu mourir mon père
Je mendierai ma vie Sur les routes de France And here is my translation of this version: THE DESERTER
Mr. President, I am writing you a letter
Since I was born, I have seen my father die,
I will beg for my livelihood on the roads of France, Some more info: Boris Vian died in 1959. He was a prolific writer, having written stories, plays, novels, and about 400 songs. "The Deserter" was written during the French-Algerian war and was censored by the French government. |
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06 Aug 01 - 01:06 PM (#521931) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: nutty Thax Jim ... but it is the English version we are looking for and we are almost there Can anyone else help???? |
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14 Oct 01 - 04:57 AM (#571657) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: Joe Offer Copied from another thread. -Joe Offer- Thread #36576 Message #523815 Posted By: Jim Dixon 08-Aug-01 Thread Name: PermaThread™ Unanswered Requests Subject: RE: PermaThread™ Unanswered Requests
See Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse. The song in question is "The Letter," which appears to be a translation of a French antiwar song, from the Algerian war era, "Le Déserteur" by Boris Vian, 1954. We already have 2 versions of the song in French, and literal translations of both versions. All that's missing is a singable translation of verse 2. If we can't get the version from the 1960's, maybe someone can make one up. |
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11 Feb 03 - 01:17 PM (#887812) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: Wolfgang Subject: ADD: Le Deserteur From: McGrath of Harlow - PM Date: 10 Feb 03 - 08:59 PM There's another song called "The Derserter" - or rather "Le Deserteur". Peter Paul and Mary used to sing it, and a lot of other people too. It was banned by the French government during their Indochina War. It's by Boris Vian and it's a very good song too. This link gets you to a page with an excellent translation, and background infiormation. So here it is in French (lifted from that page): Monsieur le Président, je vous fais une lettre, que vous lirez peut-être, si vous avez le temps. Je viens de recevoir mes papiers militaires pour partir à la guerre avant mercredi soir. Monsieur le Président je ne veux pas le faire, je ne suis pas sur terre pour tuer de pauvres gens. C'est pas pour vous fâcher, il faut que je vous dise, ma décision est prise, je m'en vais déserter. Depuis que je suis né, j'ai vu mourir mon père, j'ai vu partir mes frères, et pleurer mes enfants. Ma mère a tant souffert, qu'elle est dedans sa tombe, et se moque des bombes, et se moque des vers. Quand j'étais prisonnier on m'a volé ma femme, on m'a volé mon âme, et tout mon cher passé. Demain de bon matin, je fermerai ma porte au nez des années mortes j'irai sur les chemins. Je mendierai ma vie, sur les routes de France, de Bretagne en Provence, et je crierai aux gens: refusez d'obéir, refusez de la faire, n'allez pas à la guerre, refusez de partir. S'il faut donner son sang, allez donner le vôtre, vous êtes bon apôtre, monsieur le Président. Si vous me poursuivez prévenez vos gendarmes que je n'aurai pas d'armes et qu'ils pourront tirer. -------------------------------------- This is what McGrath has posted today in another thread where it didn't fit too well. I loved to be reminded of that beautiful song and did a bit of searching and found this old thread. So here it is all together with some loose ends: (1) Was it forbidden during the Indochina war (website on McGrath's link) or during the Algerian war (Jim Dixon and a French site I have consulted)? (2) When was it written? If 1954 is correct (Jim Dixon) then it can hardly have been forbidden during France's Indochina war (ending 1954). If 1950 is correct (on a French site), then this is possible. The French site stated that it has been written in 1950 but first sung in 1954 which may explain the different data. (3) The second verse in English is still missing. I found this bit from McGrath's link particularly interesting: It is also said that the last two verses of the song originally read, "que je serai en arme/et que je sais tirer" (that I'll be armed/and I know how to shoot) but that it was changed to reflect the pacifist and anti-militarist character of the song. This (original?) version makes the song even stronger. The French site, however, said that the change of the two lines was a compromise necessary for publication. Just in case, of course there is a German version Wolfgang |
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09 Jun 03 - 03:51 PM (#964693) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: OldPossum George Henderson posted a version with three verses in this message. |
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14 Oct 04 - 09:24 PM (#1297399) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: John Routledge Just seen this last posting!! Many thanks to George Henderson and Old Possum. It is great to get a wonderful song back into circulation and I am looking forward to singing the "whole" song. Must remember to trace important threads. |
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15 Oct 04 - 07:59 PM (#1298259) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: John Routledge First and only refresh :0) Disappears down list like muck off a shovel. |
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16 Oct 04 - 07:50 PM (#1298709) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: Little Robyn John Hayday sang this in NZ in 1967 and we loved it. The words he sang were much more singable than the ones posted and I'm trying to wrack my brain and remember them all - I've got most of them. Watch this space.... Robyn |
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17 Oct 04 - 12:00 AM (#1298812) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: Little Robyn They're nearly there. I expect to see John Hayday next weekend, at the 40th Wellington Folk Festival so if I can't remember them all by then I'll ask him. Anyway, here's what my aged memory has come up with: The Deserter Boris Vian 1954 (Spoken) Men whose names are great, I'm writing you this letter That you will read, perhaps, If you have the time. This morning through my door there fell the orders telling me Where I must go, where I must be to serve you in your war. Dear sirs who rule the earth this war of yours is not for me For the deaths of other men can't be the purpose of my birth. The days of all our lives have just seen fathers dying And little children crying, and the misery of wives. And mothers in their tears, while others just grow fat on war And do not grieve a moment for those wasted wasting years. And prisoners of war who prison robs of heart and mind Of youth, of ..... and all that's kind and all that's gone before. Tomorrow I will go, I'll turn my back upon the past And try to find some peace at last but where I do not know. I'll beg my way around and tell all people that I find Until I've told all human kind that killing .... And if you have lust for blood then let the blood be yours For yours are all the bloody wars, dear sirs who rule the earth. If you send your police to hunt and catch me as I go Tell them I am unarmed and so they can shoot me in peace. Unarmed I'm safe to kill. Robyn |
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17 Oct 04 - 10:12 AM (#1298969) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: John Routledge Thanks Robyn. Looking forward to seeing the rest of your words The version given by George Henderson is to all intents and purposes identical to the one that I knew. It must have a completely different tune to yours as the words flow beautifully to the tune that I use. It is interesting that I know the song as The Letter although the French origional from which it came was The Deserter. Perhaps the translator felt that with an english speaking audience the new title would make the song's message more effective. |
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29 Oct 04 - 11:39 PM (#1311175) Subject: Lyr Add: THE DESERTER (Boris Vian) From: Little Robyn Well, John Hayday didn't turn up at last weekend's Wellyfest but my sister and I put out heads together and we think this is the way he used to do it. The Deserter Boris Vian 1954 (Spoken) Men whose names are great, I'm writing you this letter That you will read, perhaps, If you have the time. This morning through my door there fell the orders telling me Where I must go, where I must be to serve you in your war. Dear sirs who rule the earth this war of yours is not for me For the deaths of other men can't be the purpose of my birth. I bear you no ill will but you should know that men like me Think war is just stupidity and man has had his fill. The days of all our lives have just seen husbands dying And little children crying, and the misery of wives. And mothers in their tears, while others just grow fat on war And do not grieve a moment for those wasted wasting years. And prisoners of war who prison robs of heart and mind Of youth, of joy and all that's kind and all that's gone before. Tomorrow I will go, I'll turn my back upon the past And try to find some peace at last but where I do not know. I'll beg my way around and tell all people that I find Until I've told all human kind that life is ours to live. And if you have lust for blood then let the blood be yours For yours are all the bloody wars, dear sirs who rule the earth. If you send your police to hunt and catch me as I go Tell them I am unarmed and so they can shoot me in peace. Unarmed I'm safe to kill. John was busking in France with Ralph McTell in the 60s and he apparently asked someone to translate it for him to sing. Don't know about the tune tho'........ Robyn |
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30 Oct 04 - 06:55 AM (#1311304) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: nutty I'm with John Routledge on this ..... The version he posted is the one that I remember being sung in the 70's. |
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30 Oct 04 - 06:05 PM (#1311714) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: John Routledge Thanks Robyn for the full words for John Hayday's version. My schoolboy French of 40 odd years ago indicates that the version you know is the more literal translation although "my" version does accurately follow the sentiment. I have tried - at home!! - singing "your" words to the tune that I know and it does not work at all :0) Definitely two completely different tunes. Interesting exercise though :0) |
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30 Oct 04 - 06:45 PM (#1311750) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: GUEST,Barrie Roberts This was one of the few songs penned by other people that Leon Rosselson regularly sang (in English & in French). I have an idea that he recorded it many years ago |
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30 Oct 04 - 08:28 PM (#1311825) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: Q (Frank Staplin) There were two very popular versions of Le Déserteur, one the French original by Vian, the other an echo by a great Algerian entertainer. The original Boris Vian song, Music by Harold Berg 1954 Posted by: 1. Jim Dixon 06 Aug 01. A couple of mis-spelled words only 2, McGrath, 11 Feb 03; properly shown as 12 verses (usually posted as three groups of four verses each). A revision by Mouloudji, same Harold Berg music. Posted by: John Routledge (frag.) 05 Aug 01 Jim Dixon 05 Aug 01, with translation. Several mistakes in the French Little Robyn, 29 0ct. 04. I haven't checked the translations thoroughly, there may be some crossed lines or verses, part by each writer, Vian and Mouloudji. The two together, one French, the variation by the Algerian, have a peculiar spot in the hearts of Frenchmen and Algerians who were involved in the conflict. Both original French sets of verses may be found at www.paroles.net. Mouloudji at www.paroles.net/chansons/13818.htm Vian at www.paroles.net/chansons/13819.htm Le Deserteur 1st verse by Boris Vian: Monsieur le Président Je vous fais une lettre Que vous lirez peut-être Si vous avez le temps 1st verse by Mouloudji: Messieurs qu'on nomme Grandes Je vous fais une lettre Que vous lirez peut-être Si vous avez le temps Both very similar, differences in the second and third groups of four verses. Vian addresses the President, Mouloudji the men of high standing. Vian- available in North America from Amazon on the import cd, "Boris Vian Chante Boris Vian." Track 2 of 19 tracks. Also available in Europe on other French Vian cds. Mouloudji- Available from Amazon on the cd "Mouloudji," Masters, track 11. Also on the cd "Mouloudji," Master Serie V.1 (import) track 16. Haven't found a sound clip of Berg's music. |
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31 Oct 04 - 01:35 AM (#1311974) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Letter - Missing verse From: Little Robyn Aha! John Hayday used to start with 'Messieurs qu'on nomme Grandes' but I could never spell it. Robyn |
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10 Sep 11 - 06:45 AM (#3221045) Subject: Lyr Add: THE DESERTER (Boris Vian tr John Brunner) From: GUEST,Sam A. Robrin The previous thread on this song asked for a missing verse that was never supplied. Here's my transcription from the entry in BROADSIDE #50. Yes, this is the same John Brunner who wrote all that award-winning science fiction! THE DESERTER (Boris Vian--Translation by John Brunner) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0fxfog_ShY This letter, gentlemen, Is to you politicians-- You men in high positions-- Please read it when you can. When I woke up today Orders were waiting for me To go and join the army, At once without delay. I shall not, gentlemen! That's why I write this letter, To say that men had better Refuse to fight again. My words are blunt, I'm sure. I don't want to upset you; I only want to let you Know that we are sick of war. I've seen for many years How they have killed the others, Seen brothers snatched from brothers, And children left in tears Mothers with swollen eyes Weep while the rich, not hearing-- Too busy profiteering!-- Grow fat on crimes and lies. I've seen the prisoners: What did they do to merit This sapping of their spirit, This theft of what they were? Tomorrow, I'll be gone; I'll slam the door behind me On all that might remind me Of cruelty and wrong. Then I will take my way, Around the world I'll travel To speak out against evil, And everywhere I'll say: It's good to be alive, For all mankind are brothers, In this land and all others, So help your brothers thrive. If blood is to be shed Shed yours, you politicians, You men in high positions, And be it on your head! Pursue me if you will; Call out your troops and arm them-- Tell them I will not harm them! Unarmed, I'm safe to kill. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0fxfog_ShY |
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10 Sep 11 - 04:45 PM (#3221280) Subject: RE: Lyr: The Letter/The Deserter/Le Deserteur (Vian) From: Joe Offer Hi, Sam - I consolidated your thread with various other posts on this song. The major thread on this song had been closed because of a flood of Spam, so I moved all of the "good" messages over here. By the way, Issue #50 of Broadside Magazine is here: http://www.broadsidemagazine.com/All/50.pdf. -Joe Offer, Mudcat Archivist- |
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10 Sep 11 - 05:19 PM (#3221296) Subject: RE: Lyr: The Letter/The Deserter/Le Deserteur (Vian) From: Leadfingers Leon Rosslesson - Songs for Sceptical Circles - He sings it in French and does a Spoken English translation before singing the last verse ! Dont know if he did a Rewrite but its a bit different to the versions given . I can post it if you want ! |
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10 Sep 11 - 05:59 PM (#3221313) Subject: RE: Lyr: The Letter/The Deserter/Le Deserteur (Vian) From: Artful Codger Boris Vian singing "Le Déserteur": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjndTXyk3mw |
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10 Sep 11 - 10:29 PM (#3221389) Subject: RE: Lyr: The Letter/The Deserter/Le Deserteur (Vian) From: Little Robyn The tune in that video is very similar to the one used by John Hayday - just have to squash a word in here or there. That takes me back about 44 years!!!! Robyn |
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10 Sep 11 - 10:39 PM (#3221393) Subject: RE: Lyr: The Letter/The Deserter/Le Deserteur (Vian) From: Joe Offer As Jim Dixon said above, Peter Yarrow sang this on the 1964 Peter Paul and Mary in Concert album, except that he used the beginning words "Messieurs qu'on nomme grand." The tune was more-or-less the same as Vian's singing on the YouTube video. PP&M often took great liberties with the melodies of song, so it's nice to see that they stuck with the original melody this time. -Joe- |
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10 Sep 11 - 10:57 PM (#3221400) Subject: RE: Lyr: The Letter/The Deserter/Le Deserteur (Vian) From: Amos If I am not mistaken, this was also sung by Georges Brassens, whose voice haunted my childhood. I jave never learned all the words but have always been able to sing the critical first few verses. |
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11 Sep 11 - 05:06 AM (#3221462) Subject: RE: Lyr: The Letter/The Deserter/Le Deserteur (Vian) From: Monique Amos, are you sure? I never heard him sing it (though it doesn't mean anything), I have all 12 LPs that were once released and it's not there, and it's nowhere to be seen in his complete discography |
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11 Sep 11 - 11:57 AM (#3221569) Subject: RE: Lyr: The Letter/The Deserter/Le Deserteur (Vian) From: Amos Monique: Ah, no, I am not sure. I was in my early teens at the time so any kind of mixup is possible! A |
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12 Sep 11 - 04:35 AM (#3221797) Subject: RE: Lyr: The Letter/The Deserter/Le Deserteur (Vian) From: NormanD There were several popular French versions from the late-50s / early-60s, such as by Mouloudji and Serge Reggiani. There's even one by pop crooner Richard Anthony. Is there any version with the "suppressed" last verse that anyone knows of? |