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08 Oct 11 - 08:06 PM (#3235978) Subject: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,josepp How can I vote republican? Look at this latest flap over Romney's religion. What kind of people are these that decide whether you're qualified for a political office based on your religion or lack of?? Something the Constitution forbids! This is so goddamn ignorant, I cannot feel anything but the deepest loathing and contempt for anyone who subscribes to such a view. Rick Perry is the stupidest asshole in the race for allowing this kind of thing to go on in his camp--stupid, fucking dickhead. I have more respect for Rush Limbaugh than Perry and I have NO respect for Rush Limbaugh. He will say you're not qualified for office because you're a liberal or you're not conservative enough but at least that has something to do with politics. But to say someone isn't qualified for an office because he's not the right kind of Christian is such a low blow, so completely worthy of contempt, that there is no way I can vote republican. This should not be an issue. So even though I feel Obama has let me down, has not been the harbinger for meaningful change as he passed himself off as, and really does not deserve to be reelected, who else is there to vote for? Rand Paul? My problem with him is that he is making every attempt to woo the same crazy, bigoted shitbags that Rick Perry is pandering to. He makes no attempt to present his arguments to decent people and you have to be suspicious of that. Sometimes his sound bytes come across as reasonable until you get in depth and you realize he's off his rocker like all the other GOP dipshits. So it looks like four more years of Obama and that angers me because surely there must be someone out there who can get something done. Obama can't get anything done because he's spending too much time reaching across the aisle to a gibbering pack of baboons who want him dead. And it has to be someone who can bring change that will benefit most Americans instead of a crazy minority of assholes who should be run out of the country or locked in prison camps for the terminally stupid. |
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08 Oct 11 - 08:13 PM (#3235982) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,999 OK. LOL. Josepp, I appreciate the subdued nature of that post. And lots of your citizenry feel just that way. More power to you. |
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08 Oct 11 - 08:47 PM (#3235991) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: gnu Much as I find it odd to kinda agree with you, I kinda do. Of course, this is a "one time offer" of support for your kinda okay analysis. I kinda agree with 9. |
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08 Oct 11 - 09:42 PM (#3236002) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Bobert Yeah, joez... I find it incredulous that BIG MEDIA has written off Obama's chances of winning re-election... I mean, are they looking at the list of morons, misfits, retards and psychotic malcontents who the Repubs are down to???? Bob |
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08 Oct 11 - 10:56 PM (#3236018) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Bill D Myself, I am weary with people attributing all their frustrations and problems to whoever is currently in the hot seat. **Obama** did not create this mess, and 3 years is not long enough to fix it when all the Republicans have done for those 3 years is stand in the way and scheme about getting power back! No wonder the Republicans have such a weird lineup....they are trying to choose between crazy people shouting right-wing slogans instead of looking for intelligent, competent leaders! In this world, it would be hard to find anyone who can navigate the political & financial minefield, but Obama is smart and is trying under trying conditions. ... I shudder to think what ANY of the Republicans would do if handed all this mess. |
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08 Oct 11 - 11:05 PM (#3236020) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Janie I don't know Obama personally, so neither like or dislike him. Those who are disappointed in him because he has not strongly advocated a liberal agenda have only themselves to blame. He represented himself to be a consensus builder, not married to an ideology. It was clear from the beginning of his campaign that he is a socioeconomicpolitical moderate. His message of "hope" stemmed from his experience of effective change process at more local levels. Obama's background is community organization. Effective community organization depends on the principles of "getting to yes", and respecting the validity of divergent points of view. Consensus. He tried to do that in the first half of what I now hope is his first term in office. He sorely misapprehended the politics of power on the national level, and inherited a disaster for which he is not responsible, but for which he is now held accountable. My 82 year old mother, a moderate Democrat, and who worked for Hilary Clinton in the primary elections, has repeatedly remarked on her perception that the uncompromising stance of Republicans in Congress who clearly proclaim their primary objective is not good governance but defeat of Obama in the next election, is rooted in racism. Not necessarily racism on the part of all or most Republican members of Congress, but certainly the willingness of all Republican members to exploit racism, conscious or otherwise, within their power base. When I consider how apparent it was throughout his first campaign that Obama was a moderate, not a liberal Democrat, and read or listen to the disappointment with him and his positions that liberals express, I have to ponder that racism is involved also, i.e. an assumption that an African American Democratic candidate will strongly advocate liberal positions, ignoring the candidate's history and position statements to the contrary. A |
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08 Oct 11 - 11:13 PM (#3236023) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,Russ Janie, Well put. I am still waiting for some sign of intelligent life from the Republican party. Russ (Permanent GUEST) |
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08 Oct 11 - 11:20 PM (#3236026) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Jeri Four more years of Obama might be productive if enough of those bums in Congress are replaced. They block him, then blame him because he hasn't done anything. It takes cooperation. Compromise, I can understand, but those yahoos seem to be too full of hatred to tolerate anything less than full domination of government. The hump of a nation... |
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09 Oct 11 - 12:02 AM (#3236035) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,999 About 50% of your congress are millionaires. That's split fairly evenly between Dems and Repubs. Your problem ain't the colour of anyone's skin. It's the colour of their damned money. You keep electing privileged people and then wonder why they're looking out for themselves and not the country. |
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09 Oct 11 - 12:24 AM (#3236038) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Janie I don't disagree with your financial analysis, Bruce. It does not pay, however, to ignore the elements of sociology and social psychology behind the choices people make at the polls. |
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09 Oct 11 - 12:28 AM (#3236040) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Janie I am not willing to hold myself or any other citizen unaccountable for the choices we make, even while acknowledging how easily human beings are manipulated. We all have the capacity for thoughtful choices whether we choose to exercise that capacity or not. |
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09 Oct 11 - 12:30 AM (#3236041) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: michaelr Obama did not create this mess. Neither did he sufficiently assert himself in the numerous chances he had to help fix it. I wish there was someone other than a Republican running against him. To imply that the frustration of his progressive electorate is in some way racist, like his Republican opposition is, is ridiculous. He has let *the people who elected him* down in a big way by his ineffective efforts to reach out to the intransigents on the other side. Bumpersticker for next year: Obama - There's Still Hope Not... |
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09 Oct 11 - 12:54 AM (#3236048) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Janie Well, if there is no hope, then we are all fucked, and we should close this thread and several more as they are nothing but mental masterbation. Your assumption may prove accurate, michaelr. I agree that Obama has not been effective in passing an agenda I can generally endorse. How Where we may differ is that I am not convinced anyone not furthering the right-wing conservative agenda could be successful in bringing to fruition a more balanced national agenda or plan at this point in history. A conservative or libertarian president would have undoubtedly been much more effective in working with a cooperative Congress to bring to fruition any number of measures that either Wall Street or Christian social conservatives believe are crucial. Define effective. And who gets to define effective? |
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09 Oct 11 - 12:55 AM (#3236049) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,999 "We all have the capacity for thoughtful choices whether we choose to exercise that capacity or not." Forty years ago, I'd have agreed with you, Janie. Now, I see it as rich against poor, nothin' less, nothin' more. That said, I sure do hope you're right. |
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09 Oct 11 - 01:24 AM (#3236052) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,josepp I think it's utterly ridiculous to say that the people who voted for Obama only have themselves to blame. That's an insult to everybody with intelligence and would cause Perry's camp to collapse in laughter and thank you for that brilliant analysis. Obama has kept virtually every Bush policy intact. He has not gotten rid of the DHS, he has not gotten rid of the Patriot Act, he cannot manage this war any better than Bush did. He got rid of DADT--well, pardon me, but I really don't think that's important right now. I'm furious with him over his administration's policy on medical marijuana. I'm furious with him that he did nothing about the thievery of contractors in Iraq. He has done nothing about ridiculous TSA searches at airports. Can't close Guantanamo even though he promised to. His attempts to restart the economy have been a failure. He's the best friend the fanatical conservatives have--if he was white, they'd have made a god of him by now. I think he should step aside and let Hilary run in his stead. Can't be any worse than him. I'm more disappointed with him than I have been with white liberal/moderate politicians who promise the moon but don't deliver--I knew from experience not to believe them. |
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09 Oct 11 - 01:25 AM (#3236053) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Sandy Mc Lean Tommy Douglas is regarded as the greatest Canadian of all time. His greatest gift to the people was medicare. This great man was watched closely over several decades (spies and phone taps) by our illustrious RCMP because he was an avowed Socialist. Some idiots in the USA still equate Socialism with Communism and there was a time recently that "powers that be" sold this shitty line of thought to the American public! Obama tried to introduce such a system but was blocked at every turn by your Congress only protecting the interest of big insurance companies. Douglas used to tell a story called Mouseland. It is on YouTube and is relevant to todays political world even moreso than in the past! Mouseland |
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09 Oct 11 - 01:30 AM (#3236054) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Oh this is both Great, and Pathetic....Obama blames Bush, which really does deserve some of the blame, but as a president he is a failure..now the Democrats blame Congress!! Maybe instead of the 'Democratic Blame Game' why not admit that the guy just wasn't up to the job! (Besides, Bush and Obama are owned by the same people...what did you expect???) GfS |
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09 Oct 11 - 01:31 AM (#3236056) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,josepp I'm sick of hearing that Obama was blocked, Obama was blocked, Obama was blocked. A good leader doesn't let that stop him. He finds a way to get it done. He needs to be the HNIC and let Congress know he's not to be messed with and make examples of the ones that try. They don't respect him because he never earned it. I'd would have cut that fucking Joe Wilson's head off in front of the whole fucking world if he dared to interrupt me during a speech. What's the matter with this guy?? It's too late now, he doesn't scare anyone. His goose is cooked. |
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09 Oct 11 - 01:42 AM (#3236057) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Janie I generally express exactly what I mean, michaelr - one reason for my often too long posts. What I said was I ponder that racism is involved in the disappointment many liberals express in Obama, given that Obama did not, during his last campaign, identify himself as a liberal Democrat. It is certainly your perogative to read an implication into my statement. |
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09 Oct 11 - 01:54 AM (#3236061) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Janie Well Bruce, Rich against poor is certainly one valid perspective. As you know, I've worked with folks who have nothing or next to nothing for my entire adult life. I've never had much, but I've thus far always had enough, which is more than most of the amazing and resilient people I have worked with, and continue to work with, have had. It might not be what you are implying, but all I know is that seeing oneself as a victim is about as disempowering as it gets. |
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09 Oct 11 - 01:57 AM (#3236062) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,999 Sandy, it's bveen years since I saw Mouseland. Thank you. I wish it were required viewing for all people everywhere. |
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09 Oct 11 - 02:03 AM (#3236064) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Janie josepp, I don't know why you choose to misread or misrepresent what I posted. It was foolish of me, in hindsight, to post to a thread started by you. I've been around the block enough times that I ought to have known better. My apologies. Bruce and michealr, interesting discussion even with the distortions. Iffn you want to continue it in a thoughtful and cogent manner, pm. |
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09 Oct 11 - 02:16 AM (#3236066) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,999 I know the work you do Janie, and I respect it. I recall a discussion I had with a friend in my university days in which we considered issues of magnitude for a paper we had to do. He also was about 15 years older than the average university student. (I was in my 30s when I went to school.) I felt that nuclear weapons and the assorted politics that accompanied WMDs was threat one. He replied that he thought poverty was threat one, because their bomb had already dropped. I've never forgot that. And today, for 49,000,000 people in the US living below the poverty line, the bomb has dropped--something you live with daily in your profession. I recommend the 6 1/2 minute cartoon Sandy linked to in the 09 Oct 11 - 01:25 AM post. It was from a speech by Tommy Douglas, and as Sandy pointed out, Canucks are pretty proud of him, and we should be, imo. |
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09 Oct 11 - 09:12 AM (#3236172) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: saulgoldie "I find it incredulous that BIG MEDIA has written off Obama's chances of winning re-election" Hopefully so, Bobert. But don't forget voter suppression that has the support of many Republican-owned legislatures and judges reviewing new, repressive policies that they have enacted. I am not so hopeful. And, of course, I am very disappointed in how assertive he has been, yet sacred s***less of the likely opposition. Saul |
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09 Oct 11 - 12:27 PM (#3236253) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,josepp ///josepp, I don't know why you choose to misread or misrepresent what I posted. It was foolish of me, in hindsight, to post to a thread started by you. I've been around the block enough times that I ought to have known better. //// Maybe you can start by blaming yourself for posting off on a tangent that nothing to do with my opening post. My point is not that Obama is inadequate, though he is, it's that the republican party is completely dysfunctional so that as inadequate as Obama is, he'll still get my vote. |
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09 Oct 11 - 01:17 PM (#3236276) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Bill D Well, josepp...if you take extra effort to assert the Obama is inadequate, you must expect comments on that! I flatly disagree with that, and will vote for him because I think he can get the right things done (IF he has some votes added in Congress) ... though I do agree with the dysfunctional aspect of the Republicans. "A good leader doesn't let that stop him. He finds a way to get it done.\" BS! He DID get it done until the 2010 elections! Then no majority in the House and less than 60 votes in the Senate. The Republicans even refused to vote for their own ideas if Obama agreed to them! The whole POINT was 'stop him from doing anything, then call him a failure! He could ONLY resort to "signing statements" for certain items, which GW Bush dashed off almost daily, but he has vowed NOT to use such tactics except in an emergency. |
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09 Oct 11 - 01:54 PM (#3236293) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: pdq ...here is just another little piecw to the Obama puzzle: Military.com reports: A secret panel of mid-level national security officials has been established that can put American citizens on a "kill or capture" list that is ultimately sent to the White House for final approval. The panel's recommendations first go through a group of National Security Council "principals" – meaning Cabinet secretaries and intelligence chiefs – for approval before reaching the president's desk, according to a report today by Reuter's. Anwar al-Awlaki, the American-born militant killed by a U.S. drone strike in Yemen last month, was approved for killing in this way, though the role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a citizen is vague, the report said. Reuters said White House spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to discuss anything about the process. There is no public record of the panel's workings and no law actually establishing it or spelling out its functions. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), who is a candidate for president, was quick to criticize Obama for the al-Awlaki assassination and said in a National Press Club talk that if American citizens did not protest at such killings it's possible that even reporters could end up on a hit list. "Can you imagine being put on a list because you're a threat? What's going to happen when they come to the media? What if the media becomes a threat?" he said in remarks reported by the Associated Press. "This is the way this works. It's incrementalism." Paul said. |
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09 Oct 11 - 02:54 PM (#3236316) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: michaelr Janie: "I ponder that racism is involved in the disappointment many liberals express in Obama..." How is that different from "To imply that the frustration of his progressive electorate is in some way racist..."? |
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09 Oct 11 - 03:00 PM (#3236321) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Bill D " "This is the way this works. It's incrementalism." Paul said." read elsewhere (do a search) on the "slippery slope" argument. In almost ANY discussion it is possible to 'claim' that 'X might lead to Y'. In physics & chemistry it is obvious.....in politics and psychology and culture, etc., it is NOT so obvious. Any prediction of what might happen if we allow 'them' to do this or that depends on many things, and is often no better than guesswork or projection from a personal viewpoint. As to the specific case of how to deal with American citizens who are openly aiding & abetting the enemy.... ask yourself what might have been done if Anwar al-Awlaki had been identified under Bush's regime....or a possible Ron Paul regime. Anwar al-Awlaki was in the same business as bin Laden, and doing pretty well at it. What would you have us do?...send him a note asking him to "pretty please" stop leading attacks on us? There is no evidence **Obama** intends to target citizens who are NOT a danger to us.,,,and IF a Republican were elected, you'd have to speculate on what HE would target. |
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09 Oct 11 - 05:24 PM (#3236379) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: akenaton How long before "A danger to us", becomes "a danger to our system"? Would the Wall Street Protesters qualify? Watch out for these pesky drones Bobert!! |
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09 Oct 11 - 05:43 PM (#3236384) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,999 Excellent article that pinpoints why Obama may have kissed it goodbye. |
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09 Oct 11 - 05:43 PM (#3236385) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Bill D Bobert? The Wall Street protesters ... a danger to our system? You mean the system that guarantees us a right to peaceful protest? Hmmmm... sure, I see. That right only applies if you shut up and don't use it. |
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09 Oct 11 - 07:03 PM (#3236412) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,999 A Rant Worth Listening To--STRONG LANGUAGE WARNING |
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09 Oct 11 - 09:19 PM (#3236463) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: gnu Oh my 9... that hurts! At least, I hope it does for those that are... nah, they don't give a shit. It's sad. |
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09 Oct 11 - 09:27 PM (#3236469) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: gnu "Well, if there is no hope, then we are all fucked, and we should close this thread and several more as they are nothing but mental masterbation." Ya got any sisters? (Yeah, that is a Kent County way a sayin I am attracted to intelligent women who speak their minds in plain terms. Sorry if that sounds odd in any way but it's my way of sayin "right on!") |
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09 Oct 11 - 09:33 PM (#3236470) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,josepp Remember when the House had its own bank and so many dems and pubs owed so much money that they had to shut it down? If that wasn't a wake-up call about why we are never going to pay off our debts then I don't know what is. Anytime there is money freed up, they spend it on their bullshit then when it's all gone, they blame each other. And we keep electing them to keep pulling that shit because we've fooled ourselves into believing this bullshit that one party is the good guys and the other is corrupt filthy trash. |
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09 Oct 11 - 10:14 PM (#3236487) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: michaelr This is from the Nation editorial linked to above by 999: Mainstream voices tell progressives unhappy with Obama to grow up: your whining threatens to elect a Republican in 2012, who would be much worse. But they are the ones who aren't savvy. Fear of the dark side will cause most of the Democratic base to give Obama their votes, but it will not be enough to persuade them to give up their evenings and weekends to get out the vote for him, to sway independent and undecided voters. It's a normal reaction. If Obama approves the pipeline, explains Courtney Hight, his Florida youth-vote director in 2008 who was arrested in the protest outside the White House, "it is just human nature that the resulting disappointment will sap the enthusiasm that drove us to work so hard last time." Obama still has time to bring his message into line with the stirring vision he conveyed in 2008. Perhaps, however, he thinks he can win without a strongly motivated base, relying instead on the powers of incumbency, not least the enormous amounts of money he is raising. If he chooses that course and it fails, spare us any prattle about unsophisticated progressives being at fault. A defeated Obama will have no one to blame but himself. |
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09 Oct 11 - 10:17 PM (#3236489) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: michaelr To answer Josepp's original question: Well, you're always free to vote your conscience. I'm sure there will, as always, be Green Party, Libertarian, and other alternative candidates for president. Perhaps Ralph Nader will run again. You don't have to vote for the one party with two right wings. |
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10 Oct 11 - 10:40 AM (#3236727) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Mrrzy Great rant! |
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10 Oct 11 - 11:32 AM (#3236754) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Arkie While Obama is President and the national leader, he is not a dictator and has no power to declare legislation. He has to have some support from Congress and that is the way this country's government is supposed to work. We need to elect people who will place the country's welfare above that of special interests. If Obama is saddled with another congress majority that is determined to create crisis after crisis to discredit the office of President things will not change. To place the special interests back in the majority of White House and Congress will be much worse. |
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10 Oct 11 - 11:36 AM (#3236757) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Bill D Thank you Arkie...I've been trying to say that in other ways, but you made it particularly clear. |
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10 Oct 11 - 12:03 PM (#3236777) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Obama was/is nothing more than a front man, whose appeal was to pacify so-called' liberals, thinking that a 'change' in their direction, had finally come. This was nothing more than a facade, to appease the not so bright, while carrying on, the same policies of Bush, in behalf of those globalist bankers, who BOTH of them are owned by. If the continuation of the globalist agenda carried on by Obama,(but a lot sleazier now), isn't obvious to you, by now..it is because you've derailed your intellect, and substituted it with the 'party line'...fooling NO ONE but YOURSELF! Sorta like "Suicidal, and Proud of it!"..... GfS |
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10 Oct 11 - 01:05 PM (#3236819) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,999 Arkie and Bill, I would be thinking the same way but a few things interfere. Congress is corrupt, no question. Hell, it's filled with the privileged class, half of them millionaires. Corporations are persons. Obama himself should have started the OWS. He has not been seen to be leading. So come the next presidential election, where will your fellow and fellowette citizens find someone who seems to be leading? You saying that Guantanamo--which he promised to close but is still open--cannot be shut down by the President of the United States? The office of the presidency is that weak? I'm aware it's not that simple, but then I ain't a voter. Tell John or Jane Doe Average that the office is that weak, and then wonder why they just don't 'believe' the Republic which at one time had three 'parts' of government--Executive, Legislative and Judicial (but now has four if we include Wall Street) is worth walking across the street to cast a ballot for. Tell that to the 3,000,000 million houses that were foreclosed thus rendering 7.5 million Americans homeless and add them to the 49,000,000 people presently living below the poverty line. There isn't much to believe in at the moment for those people, and about half of them have votes to cast. In a little over a year, unless Obama opens his mouth and challenges the opposition, he will not be re-elected. It's that simple. Yes, Congress is to blame, but let David show he has the stones to stand up to Goliath and he'll have the backing of every thinking person in the USA--and they DO outnumber the crooks and non-thinkers. Six years from now the Republicans will be lucky to have 25 seats in the Senate and 100 in the House. Their credibility is going, going, gone. But there seems to be nothing to replace it. Until there is, Obama will just seem like another representative of corporations and secret societies like HS, CIA, FBI, SIS and every other goddam letter in the alphabet. Maybe the only people Obama can trust is the Secret Service and the military of which HE is the commander. Grow some stones and do what ya gotta do, Obama. You the leader--so LEAD. |
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10 Oct 11 - 01:18 PM (#3236828) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Little Hawk I'm sad to say it, but I agree 100% with what GfS said in the 2nd to last post. Yes, Obama was a front man, brilliantly chosen to seduce liberal and progressive Americans into the notion that their dreams for change would finally be realized...to offer them false hopes...after 8 awful years of George Bush. But the same globalist banking and corporate elite who ran and controlled Bush are running and controlling Obama. He's a front man. nothing more. They'll use him until he's wrung out, then replace him with another stooge. It's been a cruel deception. I wonder what further cruel deception will follow in its wake? (I might add that I had considerable hope of positive change when Obama was elected...I was delighted....but it didn't take long to see those hopes wither away. The corporatocracy is out to win the game they play, and they don't care who they hurt in order to win it.) |
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10 Oct 11 - 06:47 PM (#3237005) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: gnu "I'm sad to say it..." IMAGINE how *I* feel! I won't even really say it... >;-) 9... and others... yes, but, CAN HE? Seems simple to me that IF he could he WOULD. But he can't. Revolution by the 49M PLUS fucked over is the only way out for them. It's not just 49M... include all those that are middle aged and above... their income and retirements are being stolen. And it's not just in USA though we discuss that situation here in this thread. The protests against Wall Street may be the start of change... inane at present but they may blossum. |
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10 Oct 11 - 10:18 PM (#3237073) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Bill D "Obama was a front man" And you guys know this HOW? Inside info? Speculation to feed your own negative take on what YOU'D like to see? My friends, everyone has their own style, and they are not all FDR or LBJ or JFK. I 'think' I see a far different logic behind Obama's strategy....and the timing of his confrontational self. I KNOW the liberals want noise & action, but I think he is saving the real fireworks for when he knows which We shall see, hmmmm? |
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11 Oct 11 - 12:15 AM (#3237111) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Little Hawk We think it is the case, Bill. That is our opinion. We think that Obama was a front man for the financial elite. I think so. If you don't like it and don't agree, that's perfectly all right with me. I will be absolutely delighted if you are 100% right and it turns out that Obama is adopting the kind of carefully timed strategy you suggest..."saving the real fireworks" for the perfect moment, and that he really intends to come to the rescue of the ordinary public and challenge the apparatus of corruption. That would be lovely. I dearly hope you are entirely right about it, and nothing could be cooler than to see you proven right about it. As you say, we shall see. Like you, we are no doubt seeing what we'd LIKE to see. ;-) You know what? That's what everyone does. You do it too. You'd like to think you're right about Obama, wouldn't you? Well, that is one thing you have in common with every other human you're ever going to talk to about Obama...or about anything. We ALL like to think we're right in our opinions and beliefs...and we ALL see what we'd LIKE to see...because that is the nature of the human animal. Only time can tell if the way we each like to see it is accurate or mistaken. |
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11 Oct 11 - 01:50 AM (#3237121) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Bill, Oh, the fireworks are coming, alright, but they won't be of Obama's strategy...but he is part of it. oh, and I'd love to give you my sources.....but not in here. BTW, I have an excellent track record here....no matter how many people I piss off! Some, I've called before it happened....some I called it, before it was common knowledge...but it all comes out in the wash..sooner or later....(no matter who, and/or how many I will piss off!) Actually, the people I piss off, are mostly blocked partisan 'politickers'. Open minded people, consider the input coming at them....it gives them a moment to see the logic, then decide...instead of thinking they are being 'attacked', then posturing themselves to defend a failed min-set. As I've said a few times on here.."Snap now, and avoid the rush"! GfS |
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11 Oct 11 - 12:39 PM (#3237264) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Bill D Oh, it must be special to have 'sources' which can't be revealed.... All I can say is that I think Obama (and his team) is/are smarter than the shallow bloggers & pundits give him credit for as they feed off of each other and parrot the same dire warnings. In any case, IF this motley band of would-be usurpers manage to string together enough slogans, voter disenfranchisements, scare tactics and outright lies to wrestle the election away, I will be.... 'interested'.. to read their (the pundits) disclaimers in about 2014 after things get worse, and after all the new voter registration laws, creative Gerrymandering of districts, Supreme Court shenanigans, anonymous corporate money ...and anal-retentive arch-conservative religious zealots have turned this country into a de facto, (if not de jure) theocracy where the deck is permanently stacked in favor of one party, and suddenly those pundits have less air time because Fox News is granted special privileges. That sentence too long? I said: "Better hope you are NOT right about your predictions." |
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11 Oct 11 - 12:40 PM (#3237266) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Stringsinger Josepp, our political leaders have become irrelevant because the people's voice is being heard. The unions following suit are also ignoring both political parties. The leaders are only as good as the public is willing to invest in them. Right now, they are not representing Americans but their own special interests, politically and economically. Obama is hanging on to the security blanket of Wall Street, muted in his response to their intolerable exploitation of the working and middle class. I think GE may be paying for his next election, hence Immelt. Also, Goldman through Geithner. The election fraud perpetrated by the GOP is what we have to look forward to. Don't count on the Supreme Court to help us. Solution: grow the resistance through OWS and let's make it more the 20,000 at Zicotti Park. If some politician wants to step in front of the parade, let's make sure he/she truly represents We the People. |
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12 Oct 11 - 02:55 AM (#3237623) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Strings, Russel Means on 'Corporate Socialism'......(Starts on :36) ...and then there's this!!!! GfS |
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12 Oct 11 - 08:49 AM (#3237762) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Greg F. Oh, it must be special to have 'sources' which can't be revealed.... Kinda like ol' Tailgunner Joe, ain't it, Bill? & we know what became of him. |
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12 Oct 11 - 12:33 PM (#3237883) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Little Hawk "Oh, it must be special to have 'sources' which can't be revealed...." Oh, it is, Bill, it is. Sooooo special. ;-) But not as special as having a Dachshund! **** Excellent commentary from Russel Means, GfS. I don't think of the word "socialism" anything like he does (I think of it as providing vital social services...such as health care and education, libraries, roads, a legal system, etc...to everyone in a fair and equal fashion, regardless of who they are) (while he seems to think of it as a system which takes over absolutely everything)....thus he speaks of "corporate socialism" which I would call "corporate fascism"....however, he's American, right? And "socialism" is a word that's been totally demonized in the USA. He does say that it's "socialism on the Right" and I understand what he means by that...he means that a corporate elite ends up dominating and controlling the society in a centralized manner. That is accurate. In any case, quite aside from our different take on the meaning of the word "socialism", I agree with pretty much everything he says. Are these dire predictions what we want to see happen, Bill? Hell, no! But it's what we think IS probably happening even though it's about the last thing we could possibly want. You have to say it like you see it, even if it IS the last thing you would want to see happen. I see no hope of the Democratic or Republican parties delivering your nation from the mess it's in...no more than I would have seen any hope of the Nazi Party delivering Germany from the mess it was in in the 40s or Nero or Caligula delivering Rome from the mess it was in in its latter days. This doesn't mean that I derive any satisfaction from seeing it that way. I don't. It horrifies me. I just hope to survive anyway and have a reasonably happy life regardless. That's the best you can hope for when you're living in a society that has lost touch with basic reality and sold itself to the highest bidders. |
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12 Oct 11 - 12:59 PM (#3237896) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,Songbob I posted this on the OWS thread, but it's applicable here, too: Socialized/Privatized Come, all you union members And workers in your shop; And all the laid-off folks who dread The day the checks will stop; Employers paying three folks, Who used to employ ten; We are the angry Ninety-nine, Marching once again. Refrain: From Wall Street home to Main Street, shout loud the clear refrain: "They've socialized the losses, and privatized the gains!" (2X) The One-Percenters at the top, With greed their only aim, Have done their best to hide the way They've played their selfish game. So secretly they've tweaked the rules, To keep us in the dark; But now we're waking from our sleep, And gathering in the park. Refrain When profits rise so high, you see, And wages stay so low, It's obvious the powers that be Just don't want us to know. As Joseph Stiglitz put it, In words so clear and plain, They socialize the losses, But privatize the gain. Last Refrain: From Wall Street home to Main Street, shout loud the clear refrain: "The people take the losses, the bosses take the gains!" (2X) ©2011 Annie Storr & Bob Clayton |
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12 Oct 11 - 01:07 PM (#3237898) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Little Hawk Well put. There has to be a people's revolution to confront the elite (I don't mean a violent revolution...that would be a huge error!...I do mean a nonviolent revolution). It cannot be done through the traditional political parties, in my opinion, because they have become mere passive tools of the elite, through the power of the elite's control of money. The people's revolution must totally bypass the usual channels and structures that are subject TO the power of the elite's money. |
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12 Oct 11 - 03:06 PM (#3237947) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,999 First post didn't take. Bob, I love the lyrics. Any place you two can be heard singing the song? |
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12 Oct 11 - 04:55 PM (#3238001) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,Songbob "Bob, I love the lyrics. Any place you two can be heard singing the song?" I'm going to see about making a Zoom recording this evening. Probably won't have Annie along -- it was her lyric that started it, but she put in it, "Probably needs more verses," so I added them. I'm thinking it fits several existing tunes, including a variation on Stephen Foster's tune for "We're Coming, Father Abraham," which itself is pretty unknown. I may even try a video, so I can post it on You Tube and/or Facebook. We'll see how much progress I make this evening. You know about those "best-laid plans" and how those turn out. Bob |
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12 Oct 11 - 07:14 PM (#3238082) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: frogprince "Buffalo Skinners" (or whatever tune name that is) would work as a decent option. |
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13 Oct 11 - 08:13 AM (#3238307) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,999 Bob, I'd love to hear it when you can get to it. |
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13 Oct 11 - 09:31 AM (#3238348) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Jeri I'd love to hear it too. And then, I'd love to share the song everywhere I can. You guys nailed the lyrics! It works to "Which Side Are You On" too, with some tweaking for the refrain. Needs a tune that's strong, not-so-much "pretty", and the Stephen Foster tune sounds parlor-pretty to me. Of course, a lot depends on how you sing it. |
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13 Oct 11 - 09:36 AM (#3238351) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Uncle_DaveO As to the tune, I've been singing that (in my mind) to Which Side Are You On? Dave Oesterreich |
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13 Oct 11 - 10:05 AM (#3238365) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Uncle_DaveO Josepp, I won't comment (for the moment, at least) on your attitude toward President Obama, but I need to quote an extremely mistaken part of your originating post: What kind of people are these that decide whether you're qualified for a political office based on your religion or lack of?? Something the Constitution forbids! The Constitution does no such thing. The function of the Constitution is to define and/or limit the shape and powers of the Government. It does not apply to the opinions, arguments, or votes of individuals. You or I may be as prejudiced on the subject of religion as can be described, and may advocate voting (and vote!)for or against a candidate based on our prejudices, but that does not run afoul of the Constitution. I join with your attitude toward those who would disqualify a candidate on the basis of his/her religion, as some seem to do with Romney. Of course, if a candidate signals (expressly or by implication) that, as an officeholder, because of his religion he would take actions I consider harmful or unconstitutional, I am free to advocate or vote against him, but that's not religious prejudice. Dave Oesterreich |
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13 Oct 11 - 05:12 PM (#3238557) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,Songbob I thought of "Which Side," too, but settled on a variation of the Stephen Foster tune. The result is a sort of early-Paxtonish tune that sings well and doesn't strain the voice by being too high or too low. A lot like Woody might have done. I did a quick-and-dirty video of it last night, using my laptop's camera and mic (and the sound isn't all that great because of that). I'll see about posting it -- probably on Facebook but perhaps also on UTube -- later tonight. I have to help someone figure out why she can't open emailed photos except from within MS Outlook, but when I get back, I'll try the uploading. Bob |
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13 Oct 11 - 11:34 PM (#3238707) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Sawzaw At least they nailed this asshole. Good job on this one. Hedge fund exec gets 11 years for insider trading AP Raj Rajaratnam, the hedge fund billionaire at the center of the biggest insider-trading case in U.S. history, was sentenced Thursday to 11 years behind bars the stiffest punishment ever handed out for the crime. "His crimes and the scope of his crimes reflect a virus in our business culture that needs to be eradicated," U.S. District Judge Richard J. Holwell said. "Simple justice requires a lengthy sentence." The 54-year-old founder of the Galleon Group hedge fund was also fined $10 million and ordered to forfeit $53.8 million in what the judge said were illicit profits from trading on confidential corporate information. Prosecutors said Rajaratnam made as much as $75 million in all by cultivating a network of friends, former classmates and other tipsters at various companies and investment firms who supplied him with early word on such things as mergers and earnings announcements. In return, they received kickbacks or a chance to get in on the action. Among the companies he profited from were Google, IBM, Hilton Hotels, Intel, Advanced Micro Devices and Goldman Sachs. The sentencing was the last major act in a series of prosecutions that followed Rajaratnam's arrest in 2009, the same year he was ranked No. 559 by Forbes magazine among the world's wealthiest billionaires, with a $1.3 billion net worth. More than two dozen people were arrested in the investigation, nicknamed Perfect Hedge, and all were convicted. The scandal along with the 2008 financial meltdown and the Wall Street abuses it exposed stoked populist anger in the U.S. and complaints that the stock market is a sucker's game, rigged by insiders. The judge called it "an assault on the free markets that are a fundamental element of our democratic society. There may not be readily identifiable victims, but when the playing field is not level, the integrity of the marketplace is called into question and the public suffers." Asked at his sentencing if he would like to speak, Rajaratnam responded: "No, thank you, Your Honor." The Sri Lanka-born Rajaratnam was ordered to report to a yet-to-be-designated prison Nov. 28. Until then, he must remain confined to his $10 million Manhattan condominium. His lawyers asked that he be sent to the medical facility at the federal prison in North Carolina where Bernard Madoff is serving his 150-year sentence. He has advanced diabetes and needs a kidney transplant, according to the judge. The longest previous sentence in an insider-trading case was 10 years, given twice before, most recently last month to one of Rajaratnam's co-defendants. But Rajaratnam's punishment fell far short of the 24½ years prosecutors had requested. Federal prosecutor Reed Brodsky said insider trading "makes a mockery of the principle that no one participant has an unfair advantage through thievery." He said Rajaratnam corrupted at least 20 fellow traders and insiders, and at least 19 public companies were victims of his crimes. "Today you sentence a man who is the modern face of illegal insider trading," Brodsky told the judge. "He is arguably the most egregious insider trader to face sentencing in a courthouse in the United States." The prosecutor said insider trading carried out by smart, educated people had "become rampant" because the incentives to commit it were higher than ever before and detecting it was extremely difficult. The judge said Rajaratnam deserved some leniency, noting his poor health and his charitable work in helping the homeless and the victims of Sept. 11 and natural disasters. Rajaratnam's lawyers had argued for 6½ to nine years. Defense attorney Terence Lynam asked the judge to show compassion because of Rajaratnam's illnesses, saying: "He does not deserve to die in prison." Galleon was one of the world's largest hedge funds before it collapsed in the wake of Rajaratnam's arrest, and the case against him and his cohorts was one of the most closely watched insider-trading scandals since the Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken cases in the 1980s. Boesky was a stock speculator who pleaded guilty and served two years in prison. Milken, known as the junk bond king, pleaded guilty to securities violations in 1989, served 22 months and paid a $200 million fine. The Rajaratnam probe relied heavily on the most extensive use of wiretaps ever for a white-collar case. Prosecutors captured conversations in which he and his accomplices could be heard gleefully celebrating their inside information. At his trial in May, prosecutors said Rajaratnam could convert short telephone conversations into millions in profits. For instance, they said, a 30-minute call with an Intel Corp. insider yielded a $2 million windfall. Anil Kumar, Rajaratnam's classmate at the University of Pennsylvania's prestigious Wharton School, testified that he fed Rajaratnam inside information about the acquisition of ATI Technologies Inc. by Kumar's client, Advanced Micro Devices Inc. "I told him that this was 'red hot' and shouldn't be discussed," Kumar said. He added that he also warned: "This is going to be a complete shock to the industry ... so treat this with the strictest of confidence." Prosecutors said Rajaratnam used the information to trade in advance of the ATI-AMD deal, making $20 million. They said Rajaratnam rewarded Kumar with a $1 million kickback. Also, Rajaratnam bought $27 million in Goldman Sachs stock after getting an illegal tip that Warren Buffett was going to pump $5 billion into the struggling investment bank. "We can only hope that this case will be the wake-up call we said it should be," U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said in a statement Thursday. "It is a sad conclusion to what once seemed to be a glittering story. ... Privileged professionals do not get a free pass to pursue profit through corrupt means." |
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13 Oct 11 - 11:53 PM (#3238714) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: GUEST,AVFS (Annie) Socialize/Privatize: Bob sings it better (see the video), but I got the unsurpassable thrill of singing this new song in the center of MacPherson Square, the Occupy DC camp, in the rain tonight, to an ad hoc audience of spirited protesters in muddy ponchos. Whatever I don't have in talent, I hope I made up in motivation...and pride in my son who is in his 7th day on site. Even middle-aged women in their business suits apparently can find a place in this effort. Sing out! Annie S |
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14 Oct 11 - 10:18 PM (#3239179) Subject: RE: BS: As much as I've grown to dislike Obama From: Stilly River Sage Good for you! |