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10 Oct 11 - 09:27 AM (#3236681) Subject: BS: Columbus Day From: kendall We Yankees are so irrational. Columbus discovered Watling Island on October 12th, yet we celebrate it on the 10th this year. Considering that he was 500 years too late, and that he never set foot on the continent, and that he and his crew almost wiped out the Caribe Indians, why do we celebrate? |
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10 Oct 11 - 09:56 AM (#3236698) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Wesley S Because we want Monday off? |
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10 Oct 11 - 10:00 AM (#3236700) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Big Mick Ask that question in South Jersey/Philly area and you won't make it out alive! |
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10 Oct 11 - 10:40 AM (#3236728) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Mrrzy Genocide! |
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10 Oct 11 - 11:25 AM (#3236751) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: open mike Nordic / Scandinavian folks sometimes celebrate Lief Erickson Day. There is also used to be an organization called ABC, America Before Columbus. |
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10 Oct 11 - 11:29 AM (#3236752) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: John MacKenzie He related to Doris Day? |
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10 Oct 11 - 11:58 AM (#3236772) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: open mike let's all walk into someone else's house and say "we live here now" day |
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10 Oct 11 - 01:07 PM (#3236820) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: artbrooks Became an "official" Federal holiday in 1937 - I assume it had something to do with tying down the Italian vote. All Indians (aka Native Americans) were not guaranteed the right to vote until 1965. |
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10 Oct 11 - 01:12 PM (#3236823) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,999 I take it this ain't about Columbus, Ohio then? |
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10 Oct 11 - 01:27 PM (#3236836) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Amos Aw, c'mon. Others had landed on the continent before, but he was the man with the right combination of guts and PR to bring back the news and make it large. From the viewpoint of the Portuguese and Italians, and other commercial interests looking for new horizons throughout Europe, he done good. As for the tenth versus the 12th, consider how many bureaucrats the process went through before an agreement must have been reached; losing two lousy days is a tiny price to pay for the extra day off (in some companies). THis is not an excuse for the subsequent genocidal manuvers. Different issue altogether. A |
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10 Oct 11 - 02:51 PM (#3236893) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Q (Frank Staplin) Of no importance except that one gets a day off- Columbus Day is a statuary holiday for U.S. government employees but is not one in all of the states. Alaska, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Hawai'i, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Washington do not observe it. Alabama, Virginia, Texas, Virginia, Mississippi and other southern states have holidays recognizing Jefferson Davis, Generals Lee and Jackson, Confederate Veterans, etc., and Hawai'i has Kamehameha and Kuhio holidays, etc. South Dakota recognizes Native American Day on the second Mon. in October. |
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10 Oct 11 - 02:55 PM (#3236894) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Rapparee Indiana gives you three hours off for Good Friday. Nobody objects that I'm aware off -- time off is time off. |
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10 Oct 11 - 02:58 PM (#3236898) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Q (Frank Staplin) More holiday trivia- Canada does not recognize Columbus Day but has Canada Thanksgiving instead. Mexico has it as a civic holiday, but government employees do not get a day off with pay. |
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10 Oct 11 - 03:00 PM (#3236900) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: open mike http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjNKzsWa5A8 Stan Freeberg's take on Columbus, "round, round world" |
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10 Oct 11 - 03:00 PM (#3236901) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Big Mick My comment was tongue in cheek. Perhaps it was I'll advised as well |
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10 Oct 11 - 03:07 PM (#3236906) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: artbrooks Utah celebrates the day the Mormon pioneers arrived in the Salt Lake valley - July 24th - as Pioneer Day or the Days of (18)47. State holiday. |
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10 Oct 11 - 03:08 PM (#3236907) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Q (Frank Staplin) "I'll" advised- a slip of the cogs there? What, me worry? I'll eat turkey today - too much and I'll drop the '. |
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10 Oct 11 - 04:40 PM (#3236956) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: catspaw49 In Columbus, Ohio Bruce, we DO celebrate it as City of Columbus Day! See, Columbus is populated by immigrants from Germany, England, Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Scandinavia, Africa, and West Virginia. After years of living in Columbus they are all virtually indistinguishable, have an average collective IQ of 47 and will all answer to "Hey you Hilljack Motherfucker." This year's celebration includes a Budweiser Beerfest where a gigantic paper mache turkey representing the NCAA will be burned in effigy and a candlelight vigil will follow evening vespers at the grave of Woody Hayes. Spaw |
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10 Oct 11 - 05:21 PM (#3236966) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Jim Dixon Ah, what a tangled web. There are some good reasons not to honor Columbus, one of them that he was brutal to the Indians he encountered. Some people quibble that he didn't "discover" anything because there were already people living here. I hold that that doesn't make any difference. He revealed something important to the Europeans that they didn't already know. That counts as discovery in my book. If, on the other hand, the Indians had been the first to cross the Atlantic, it would be perfectly proper to say the Indians had discovered Europe. But they didn't—as far as anyone knows for certain. The fact that Columbus didn't set foot on the mainland of the Americas, but only some outlying islands, doesn't seem relevant to me either. The islands that Columbus visited definitely lie on the same continental shelf that makes up North & South America. That counts for something. The fact that Columbus misunderstood what he had found is more troubling. He thought he had found a quick route to Asia. It was Amerigo Vespucci who determined it wasn't really Asia but a new continent. It seems to me Vespucci should be given at least as much credit as Columbus. If I find a painting in my grandma's attic and I think my grandma painted it, but then an expert sees it hanging on my wall and realizes it's a Van Gogh, do I deserve credit for finding a new Van Gogh? I don't think so. |
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10 Oct 11 - 07:48 PM (#3237036) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: gnu I'll give ya $5 bucks fer the drawing, Jim. Ya gotta dust it off first eh? |
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10 Oct 11 - 07:52 PM (#3237039) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: kendall I refuse to celebrate what never happened. |
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10 Oct 11 - 10:25 PM (#3237081) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: catspaw49 I gather you celebrate very few holidays or anything else huh Kendall? I'm tellin' ya', come to Columbus where we celebrate shit that HAS and DOES happen! We worship Woody and celebrate the days of his life. We celebrate the fact that we're a city that feels like a small town, a small town filled with jacklegged fuckwits and raging hillbillies! We celebrate that for all of that, at least we're not Cleveland! Life is good.................. Spaw |
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10 Oct 11 - 10:33 PM (#3237086) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,mg it is not a big day for me..just wasn't celebrated here..but it is to Italian Americans..who have in the past not gotten enough respect and like their T-shirts say..they built a lot of it. So, with some acknowledgements that it was certainly not good for the natives, and perhaps some official ceremonies honoring them...I would still keep it as it has been celebrated in some communities..it would be like doing away with St. Patrick's Day..it is very important to some people..it should be modified but kept I think..but not expanded to include more people getting days off etc. if they already don't. Whether he discovered it or not..doesn't matter to me any more than if St. Patrick really chased out the snakes..it matters to Italian Americans..some of them...mg |
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10 Oct 11 - 11:23 PM (#3237096) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: ChanteyLass Celebrate it? No. But it was a good day to go to Mystic Seaport! |
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10 Oct 11 - 11:27 PM (#3237100) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Bee-dubya-ell Oh... Columbus Day... So that's why I didn't get any mail today, huh? |
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10 Oct 11 - 11:42 PM (#3237102) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: JohnInKansas The departure from an "authentic" date is because some government ex-spurt decided that all holidays should come on Mondays. The ex-spurt figured that eliminating breaks in the middle of the week would cause less distruption in the efficient operation of government offices. Citizens with minimal awareness of government operations liked the idea, but on the supposition that "nobody in the government does anything on Mondays anyway." Knowledgeable citizens didn't like the idea all that much, since keeping government workers out of the office as frequently as possible sounded like a good idea, and a week with "two Mondays" was about as close as you could get without adding more holidays. The "Monday holidays" in the US are uniformly observed by government offices/agencies, including most state and local government offices, and banks. Some businesses may recognize one or two of them, but shutting down isn't mandatory for businesses. John |
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11 Oct 11 - 12:28 PM (#3237255) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Stringsinger Columbus was a mass murderer who slaughtered many Arawaks. They were initially friendly and Columbus thought they would make good servants. "We sailed past San Salvador in search of shining booty. A naked whore lay on the beach, by god she was a beauty. The sailor boys jumped overboard divesting shirts and collars. In fifteen minutes by the clock, she made ten thousand dollars. Christopher Columbo, he thought the world was round-o! That masterbaiting, fornicating, son-of-a-bitch, Columbo!" Happy genocide day. |
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11 Oct 11 - 01:29 PM (#3237301) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Bonzo3legs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gm6kzKsnvA Columbus didn't find america!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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11 Oct 11 - 02:51 PM (#3237330) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Lizzie Cornish 1 An alternative poster for your Columbus Day window Bonzo, there's no mention of Show of Hands in the text of that link, or the title...although there is in the right hand corner under the video, in very small writing. I've asked the person on that page to think about putting it in the text and title...Songwriters should always get big mention for their work...Good video though, I've not seen it before, I guess because Show of Hands isn't in the title, so therefore it doesn't come up on a search... The American Indians are fighting back, BIGTIME, over Columbus Day...and who can blame them. Petition to Remove/Rename Columbus Day |
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11 Oct 11 - 03:17 PM (#3237345) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Greg B Maybe we need a new holiday: National Self-Loathing Day. That's the day everyone stays home from work and feels guilty. As I said elsewhere, it seems it's only the Italian-Americans who have to put up with having their cultural holiday usurped by individuals who'd denigrate it. And it seems to be the only cultural holidays which it is fashionable among progressives to denigrate. Do we use St. Paddy's day to lay all of the evils such as the Madeline Laundries and Christian Brothers' Schools at his feet, and insist that all of the parades and Guinness-swilling be cancelled? No! Shall we ban observation of St. George's day, given all of the evils and excesses of the British Empire? Native Americans have a point, but their choice of a manner in which to make their point, is dead wrong. Laying all of the injustices done to them at the feet of a single adventurer is just silly. Inserting yourself into another culture's traditions by denigrating them is just rude. |
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11 Oct 11 - 03:18 PM (#3237347) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: catspaw49 This whole name changing thing is a crock. I mean it. You have to draw the line on this kind of politically correct thought somewhere! If you erase the Chris thing then Columbus, Ohio would have to become "Indigenous Peoples Heritage, Ohio." That's a lousy thing to do. Think of the cost of changing all those paper goods not to mention fire engines and police cars! Gawddammit, I don't even think you can fit that name on the door of a police car! Think how huge a police badge would have to be.......... If we have to change the name of Columbus then it'd be better to go with something real......like Cowtown or Fuckwit City! Spaw |
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11 Oct 11 - 03:41 PM (#3237360) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Amos You could just use an acronym the way bureaucratic fuckwits like to do: IPH, Ohio. It's a Big Iph, too. :D A |
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11 Oct 11 - 04:12 PM (#3237374) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Q (Frank Staplin) Don't forget Columbus, New Mexico. Pancho Villa and est. 500 troops raided the town on March 9, 1916. One-half of Villistas were casualties, and 16 Americans were killed. General Pershing headed an expeditionary force of 10,000 into Mexico, but never caught up with Pancho. In all, 20,000 men gained experience in the fiasco er- foray. The force was notable for using trucks and motorcycles bought in El Paso, and a new tank or two, the first time mechanized vehicles were used in combat. The railroad station, the object of the Villistas' incursion, is now a museum. Brief account- http://www.southernnewmexico.com/Articles/Southwest/Luna/Columbus/ColumbusNewMexico-PanchoV.html (or google Columbusnm) |
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11 Oct 11 - 07:56 PM (#3237504) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: kendall My reply to mg is gone. Why? |
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11 Oct 11 - 10:20 PM (#3237559) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Q (Frank Staplin) kendall, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Maybe the mudwump will be asleep. |
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12 Oct 11 - 09:52 AM (#3237803) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: kendall If it was deleted I want to know who and why.
Most likely, your message didn't "take." It happens to me a few times a week. -Joe- |
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12 Oct 11 - 09:59 AM (#3237809) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,The Lamenting Whelk "Shall we ban observation of St. George's day, given all of the evils and excesses of the British Empire?" |
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12 Oct 11 - 10:03 AM (#3237813) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,The Lamenting Whelk, having keyboard issues Apologies for that - new a keyboard has me befuddled. St. George is the patron saint of England, not Wales or Scotland so has bog all to do with the British Empire, whose patron saint is St. Irreversible Decline except in the minds of Delusional Tories and Retired Colonels. Get it right. |
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12 Oct 11 - 11:40 AM (#3237855) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,leeneia Columbus Day probably has nothing to do with Columbus. It probably has to do with the way that Italian-Americans were considered scum. Apparently somebody has to be the scum of our society, so that people who don't think clearly can have an object for their ill-defined hostility. At one time it was the Irish, another time the Polish, for a long time the blacks, and now, in this enlightened age, prejudice seems to be shifting from the blacks to the obese. Such progress! Back to Italians. I just read a historical novel which seemed carefully researched. It was set in 1906. There was a fine woman (Isabella) who was the widow of a member of New Yorks's uppity '400' social set, and at one point Isabella said: "Teddy's family didn't want him to marry me, you know." "Whyever not?" "My mother was Italian." So when Columbus Day comes, set aside all the angst about Christopher Columbus and celebrate something Italian. (At our house we are going to celebrate by eating meatballs with fennel and bowtie pasta.) Or find some Italian folkmusic online and play it. (Try the ingeb.de site.) If nothing else, put some Vivaldi on the stereo. It's a holiday; have a good time. Spaw: loved your new name for Columbus, Ohio. |
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12 Oct 11 - 07:59 PM (#3238111) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: kendall Joe, I didn't accuse anyone. I asked a question. As far as Italians go, when I hear the word Italian, I think of Leonardo DaVinci, Michelangelo,Gallalao, Botticelli, Vivaldi,and dozens of other greats. It is still my opinion that Christoforo Columbo does not qualify as great. By the way, I love Pizza. |
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12 Oct 11 - 09:36 PM (#3238148) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,999 Christopher Columbus my ass. His name is Cristoforo Colombo. Get it right or say goodnight, dudes. |
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12 Oct 11 - 11:29 PM (#3238180) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: catspaw49 I'm tellin' y'all that you need to get over it cuz like I said, Columbus can't be changing the name! I mean they've been bitten on that stationery thing before and it ain't good! Do you know the story? Somewhere back in the mid 20th Century Columbus got the idea that they needed a higher cultural profile so as time went along various artsy-fartsy crap started enjoying a growth that was pretty remarkable. Some yuppie genius figured we needed even more. The City commisioned an artist who had graduated from Ohio State to do a sculpture which we could proudly display next to the one of old Chris which had been a gift from our sister city, Genoa, Italy. Time passes and the great unveiling is due. Columbus had ordered new stationery products, bought new badges for the fire and police, had new decals made for the car doors, they'd gone the whole route so this new sculpture representing the town would be prominently displayed. On the great day all of this would go into use and pride would know no end. The day arrives and we are all treated to this 25 foot psychodelic turd. The citizenry viewed their new "image" and after some initial silence there was a mass of voices which rang out across the entire city saying, "What the fuck?????" This funky thing is titled "Brushstrokes in Flight" but most had better names for it. It was moved all over town but absolutely no one wanted it anywhere close.....NIMBY at work. Finally the "flight" part came to mind and as the airport would have no choice it was sent there to scare the hell out of people on incoming flights from cities where culture actually exists. There was one final attempt to rid the state of BiF. Like I said, even if old Chris was just another dago, Columbus celebrates its Italian heritage as and that statue from Genoa overlooks a riverfront festival where a replica of the Santa Maria is in display............yeah, they built one of them too. In the mid 80's when much of this was going on the mayor was a guy named Dana "Buck" Rinehart. As a mayor Buck was a pretty much of a broke dick jadrool. He did virtually nothing all day and went out drinking with his cronies at night. One night the Columbus Police pulled him over as he'd been swerving down the road. Obviously drunk as a skunk he told the Officer, "I'm not drunk, I'm just inspecting the city." Buck needed to charge up his image and in the hopes of satisfying the local voters while possibly gaining national attention, he made a magnanimous offer to the city of Genoa (remember Genoa?) to repay them for the statue of Chris. He and a group of citizens would go to Genoa and donate "Brushstrokes in Flight" to our sister city. Now I don't really know if this is true but I think the city of Genoa is a lovely Italian city and when they saw a picture of BiF, they too said "What the fuck???" However it was, they said thanks, bt NO THANKS!!! So fly in here and enjoy(?) the sculpture. Over the years the badges have been replaced and the stationery used but let me assure you, Columbus will not be going there again. Spaw |
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13 Oct 11 - 12:10 AM (#3238195) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,999 "He did virtually nothing all day and went out drinking with his cronies at night." Now, THAT'S a plan! |
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13 Oct 11 - 01:26 AM (#3238207) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Little Hawk He sounds a lot like Chongo to me. ;-) Maybe Chongo should run for mayor of Chicago. |
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13 Oct 11 - 01:50 PM (#3238456) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: kendall Let us honor the real Italian greats and forget Colombo. |
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13 Oct 11 - 07:06 PM (#3238604) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: catspaw49 Oh, I see Kendall.....like in that great song so popular in WWI, When Tony Goes over the Top, Keep-a You Eyes on the Fighting Wop...........Actually that's a fine little ditty. I'd suggest perhaps Vivaldi but I always wondered what kind of sick fuck wrote 37 bassoon concertos. Not that I wasn't appreciative because so much American music treats the bassoon as a comic voice so most of the solo pieces are pretty much the same. 10 great pieces would have been adequate. So how about we honor Salvatore Maranzano? There's a real Italian for you! Spaw |
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13 Oct 11 - 09:16 PM (#3238668) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Q (Frank Staplin) Forget Detective Columbo? Never ! |
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13 Oct 11 - 10:46 PM (#3238691) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Little Hawk It makes a lot more sense to me to call the holiday Schenectady Day. Schenectady is a far more interesting name than Columbus, after all, and it wouldn't offend Native Americans! ;-) The only thing cooler than Schenectady Day would be Guelph Day, but that would have to be a Canadian holiday. Then there's Dachshund Day or as it's popularly known "Dachsie Day", the greatest holiday of them all! There's no other sight so charming as about 5,000 Dachshunds dressed up in those little suits that make them look like a walking hotdog in a bun, with mustard on top. Hot Dog! |
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14 Oct 11 - 11:47 AM (#3238911) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,leeneia Loved your story, Spaw. River City beats Columbus when it comes to turds, though. Take a gander at this, which graces the sweeping lawn of the prestitious Nelson Atkins Gallery. http://www.flickr.com/photos/aeionic/2969912127/ But to return to the question of Columbus Day - I went to the ingeb.de site and found a lovely song called 'Bionda, bella Bionda.' It's very Italian and takes good chords - C, F, Dm, that kind of thing. When I play it, I remember a warm night in Naples, with the full moon over the bay. Yes, I was actually there once. It means 'Blondie, beautiful Blondie,' and I'm all for that. I was a blond once - at age 3. |
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14 Oct 11 - 10:59 PM (#3239203) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,mg There are theories that Columbus was a Cryptic?? Crypto??? Jew ...1492 was a very significant year for Jews and Muslims and the Inquisition...some connections to Melungeons.. http://www.mediamonitors.net/brentkennedy1.html |
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15 Oct 11 - 01:46 AM (#3239232) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,mg more on Columbus and expulsion of Jews from Spain..some have suggested his voyages were to look for a safe haven for them. http://robtshepherd.tripod.com/columbus.html |
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15 Oct 11 - 12:34 PM (#3239426) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: kendall Revisions historians are a pain. |
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15 Oct 11 - 03:34 PM (#3239509) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Q (Frank Staplin) Always some garbage (or recycle bumff) out there. A good book: Laurence Bergreen, 2011, Columbus. The Four Voyages. Includes much biographical detail. A good sailor (hardly lost a man) but not too good at getting along with the powers that be. And in his own words: Robbins, F. E., (translation), Colombo, Cristoforo, Epistola de insulis nuper inventis, plus letter of 1493. |
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04 Nov 11 - 01:03 PM (#3250305) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Jim Dixon There is also a theory that Columbus was really Spanish, not Italian (or that he came from a Spanish family living in Italy). It's based on the fact that his only extant letter to his brother was written in Spanish. |
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04 Nov 11 - 07:15 PM (#3250522) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: GUEST,kendall As I understand it, he lived in Spain for many years, and he was sponsored by the King and Queen of Spain. By the way, Stan Frieberg's History of the United States is one of the funniest things I have ever heard. Originally recorded by Capitol records on an LP back in the 60's. |
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04 Nov 11 - 07:59 PM (#3250540) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Bobert Flat Earthers Unite!!! (They have, Boberdz... They call themselves the Tea Party...) Oh... B;~) |
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05 Nov 11 - 02:12 PM (#3250911) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: Bettynh Stan Freberg on youtube |
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05 Nov 11 - 07:46 PM (#3251047) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: kendall See what I mean? It helps to know some history. |
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05 Nov 11 - 09:51 PM (#3251079) Subject: RE: BS: Columbus Day From: gnu I was to the edge of the world with The Flat Earth Society. I looked into the abyss in Grand Manan, New Brunswick. Couldn't see shit in the dark. I was convinced that they were flat out drunk on hard liquor. But they got cool T-shirts eh? Nearly as cool as the Atlantic Mackerel Society. |
