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13 Oct 11 - 11:55 AM (#3238406) Subject: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Bobert So here's the deal... This 9-9-9 tax plan will put a flat tax in place that will further shift the tax burden onto the backs of poor people... 9% on all income and 9% sales tax on a $7.25 a hour job??? Do the math!!! This man is crazy!!! B~ |
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13 Oct 11 - 12:07 PM (#3238411) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: olddude yea but the rich cats get to keep more of their hard earned dollar :-) |
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13 Oct 11 - 12:32 PM (#3238420) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Bill D Not only that, but deep in the details of his 'plan' is a scheme to totally eliminate Medicare & Social Security and 'allow' the states to 'aid' those in financial difficulty in the ways they find most reasonable. |
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13 Oct 11 - 12:42 PM (#3238422) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Greg F. Yeah, ol' Herman's one of the Republican Tea Pottyers that keep mewling and puking about the Dems waging "Class Warfare"? So he proposes the most regressive form of taxation that's out there. Is he a liar, a hypocrite, ir an idiot? Inquiring minds want to know. However, Faux News[sic] is pushing the plan pretty hard, so the Dittoheads & the Boobocracy will likely go for it & vote, yet again, against their own best interests. He and Justice Uncle Thomas should get together- maybe they can take the Constitution back to its original form like Uncle keeps saying he wants to do - and repeal the 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments. |
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13 Oct 11 - 12:44 PM (#3238424) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Greg F. But it SURE IS a "999" plan, all right- that's the number you dial in Britain to get Emergency Services. |
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13 Oct 11 - 01:29 PM (#3238446) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: katlaughing I heard Michelle Bachmann criticized his plan by telling folks if you turn the "999" upside down, you will see the "devil is in the details." Wasn't that clever of her?LOL |
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13 Oct 11 - 01:48 PM (#3238454) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: kendall One doesn't say "clever and Michelle B" in the same sentence. I can see down the road when some president or congress decides that 9% is too little and EVERYTHING needs to be taxes. Everything from condoms to macaroni and cheese. Remember the temporary tax on phone calls during WW 2? |
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13 Oct 11 - 02:04 PM (#3238462) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: katlaughing It was said with irony, Cap'n.:-) |
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13 Oct 11 - 02:08 PM (#3238466) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: artbrooks Many people with lower incomes currently pay little or no income tax and they spend everything they make to get through the month. Mr. Cain's grand plan will tax them at 9% while adding an additional 9% sales tax to everything they buy...additional in the sense that many items (eg., food) are generally exempt from state and local sales taxes. So then, to maintain the same standard of living, they get to pay 109% of what they used to pay, and do so with 91% of the money. Just exactly how did this guy make his fortune? I understand that his chief financial adviser has a bachelor's degree in accountancy - not even a CPA. |
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13 Oct 11 - 02:10 PM (#3238468) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Greg F. How about a tax on stupidity & cupidity? Have more money than they know what to do with. |
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13 Oct 11 - 02:15 PM (#3238471) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: gnu Pretty much everything is taxed here. Even things like muffins if you buy less than 6 at a time... you know, like the elderly or young living alone would want to do. Our sales tax is 13%. BTW, what's the third 9 for? |
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13 Oct 11 - 02:18 PM (#3238474) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: artbrooks The final 9 is the corporate tax rate. Washington Post fact checker on the 9-9-9 Plan. |
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13 Oct 11 - 02:57 PM (#3238497) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Lighter It's a meaningless gimmick. I doubt that even Cain thinks it would work. Romney had it right in the last debate: it sounds like the price of a pizza. "999" is a catchy and appealing number (that's why so much stuff really is priced at "$9.99." Why didn't the math come out at 10-10-10 or 17-8-3? And evidently there was no math. CNN reports that the plan is so radical that no one has the slightest idea how much revenue it would generate compared to current taxes, especially once you cut out all the current credits, deductions, adjustments, etc. Finally, Pres. Cain would find it 100& impossible to get such a plan through Congress - even a top-heavy Republican Congress - for all the reasons mentioned on this thread. And Cain must know it. The 9-9-9 plan is brilliant strategy because it's easy to remember, it's specific, it's radical without being "left-wing", and it sounds "fair" to millions because "everybody gets taxed the same."It gives Cain a cause he ca crusade for while his rivals just repeat the same old "spineless socialist spendthrift Obama" line and bash each other for not being far enough to the right. Another reason for Cain's popularity is that he says clearly what he means without doubletalk, doesn't rely on personal zingers, doesn't insult the President personally, etc., etc., etc. The man's dignity and sense of focus is refreshing, support him or not. And remember, as Ronald Reagan noted, "Politics is just like show business." You just don't get paid as much. (A U.S. President would have to stay in office 46 years to make what one voice actor on the Simpsons makes in a season. The marketplace has spoken.) |
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13 Oct 11 - 03:00 PM (#3238501) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Lighter That should be "23 years." So it isn't as bad a deal as I thought. |
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13 Oct 11 - 03:45 PM (#3238518) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Richard Bridge Politics is just like showbiz? No wonder you have problems. |
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13 Oct 11 - 04:28 PM (#3238542) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Q (Frank Staplin) Cain's 9-9-9 of course is nonsense, one of those proposals that would never receive a favorable vote in Congress. Lighter spells out his appeal, although his plan dodges the problem. At this time a gaggle of candidates are attacking Romney and attempting to sound plausible rather than make viable proposals. The Democrats are doing little better, afraid to make proposals with substance. I'm afraid that- regardless of the winner- the next Congress and White House will continue to muddle along without attacking the problems of a country trying to catch up with fast-developing ecomomies elsewhere. |
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13 Oct 11 - 06:50 PM (#3238599) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: JohnInKansas Even with a "flat tax" the rich will still pay less than the poor. The problems with taxation is that you can't tax gross income. A business with sales receipts of $1,000,000 has to buy $800,000 worth of stuff to sell, and its net income is thus only $200,000 - which is all it has at the end of the year to pay taxes with. You must provide some way to allow for the costs of doing business. The rich will continue to figure out ways to get Congress to allow them more generous reductions of their income for "expenses," while the working stiffs will continue to pay the tax on all (or very nearly all) of their wages. The reason that the high income people pay relatively very little in taxes is because, through manipulating of "costs of business" they have zero taxable (net) income - on paper. Even though the highest tax bracket now taxes income above where the bracket changes at 28%, income from investments held more than a year is taxed as "capital gains" at 15%, so the person who's able to live off investment income pays (.15/.28) about at about half the rate of the person who lives off current (wage) income. It could be very difficult to change the code so that a working investor making a million every year pays a fair share on current income without wiping out the life savings of the retiree withdrawing a living income from a lifetime of savings. This is not a simple thing to change since the capital gains rate also applies to things like the net gain from selling a home, which significantly affects everybody, regardless of income level. (The current code includes an "exemption" for modest homes, which is reasonable fair, but a "clean slate" restart on things isn't likely to catch all such special conditions.) There's no magic solution that you can put in a trite quip in a speech, since "the devil's in the details," and the current tax code contains about 35,000 pages of "details." Many of these have very good reasons for being there, but a whole bunch of them are just gravy for the (fat) cats. The only realistic and rational way to fix it is to rewrite the whole thing, and we don't elect many people who can do simple arithmatic, much less even talk about fair taxation. John |
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13 Oct 11 - 08:34 PM (#3238652) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Charley Noble The Republicans richly deserve a candidate like Cain. I wonder if he can find someone named Able for a running mate. What a team! That would certainly sew up the nomination. I am curious how good his pizza is. Charley Noble |
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13 Oct 11 - 08:56 PM (#3238661) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Lighter The whole tax issue this year is a red herring anyway, because the real economic problems are unemployment, the fate of national health care, and the fact that virtually no new regulations have been passed since the 2008 meltdown to make another, even worse, disaster any less likely. That's right - the same loan practices that almost ruined the country are still perfectly legal. The only difference is that the lenders have temporarily learned their lesson. Or have they? It's easy to miss the fact that both parties agree vaguely that various tax loopholes should be closed, but they can't talk about it because they don't want voters thinking they agree on anything; they can't agree on what loopholes; and tax law is too complicated for TV soundbites. In fact, only experts (not the candidates) can even discuss it intelligently. So you're invited to base your choice on whether millionaires should pay more than they do on their personal income taxes. Because anybody can have an opinion on that! They already pay less than they did before 2001 (and way less than in the '50s), but that added revenue alone won't fix the deficit, the debt, or even the interest on the debt. Another problem: few people seem to realize that much of the general mess is beyond the control of *any* president. The national and global economy is so complicated that any policy (including the Republican favorite of doing nothing) may well turn out to be inadequate or wrong. |
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13 Oct 11 - 09:27 PM (#3238672) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: GUEST,999 I ain't takin' NO blame for THIS shit! |
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14 Oct 11 - 05:26 AM (#3238771) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Nigel Parsons Lighter: as for why prices seem to come out at $9.99, I'm guessing it is similar to the situation in the UK. You'll often see prices ending in an odd 99p (or house prices in £XXX,999). In the case of houses it may be to make people think they're paying less than a given round sum, and the same was 9to some extent) true of shop prices (Oh, £8-99, that's not even Nine pounds!). But that level of gullibility is no longer common. One of the main reasons for the shop price of (for example) a shirt being £8.99 is that the purchaser, even if they have almost the right money (A five pound note & four one pound coins), will wait for their change. This means the shop worker has to ring the item into the till & give a receipt and one penny change. If the price was rounded to £9.00 the customer might put the right money down & walk out. Dishonest shopworkers then just avoid ringing up the purchase & pocket the cash. |
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14 Oct 11 - 08:59 AM (#3238849) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Lighter That's an interesting idea, Nigel. I've never heard it before. Here in America I'd wager that *most* prices end in a "99" (or, for lesser items, a ".49") of one kind or another. This is true even in supermarkets and variety stores, where most people purchase several items at once, all of which have to be rung up on the register. Even gasoline is priced with a "99." In that case, it's only 99/100 of a cent. You won't see gas for "3.14 gal." What you see instead is "3.13 99/100 gal." And nowadays most customers pay with a check or plastic. Maybe Americans are just more gullible; but there's something about that "not quite 100" that makes everything look like a bargain! |
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14 Oct 11 - 09:13 AM (#3238858) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: McGrath of Harlow Pretty much everything is taxed here. When we write "here" on the Mudcat it's a good idea to say where "here" is for us. It's a big Mudworld. It wouldn't be too easy keeping track of where we all live. |
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14 Oct 11 - 12:24 PM (#3238933) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Donuel Huffington Post Cain's economic expert came up with the 999 plan. He never went to school for economics but says "you don't need to have a PHD in physics to know what will happen when you drop a bowling ball". Coincidently if you are a Sim City fan you will note that the default mode for local, state and sales taxes are 9%, 9% and 9% respectively. COMMON SENSE SHOWS THAT THE PLAN WOULD BANKRUPT CORPORATIONS AND THE FEDERAL GOVT. ALIKE. Never mind that the plan only works in Sim City and not on a national economy. It slakes the thirst for common sense among tea party supporters, and that is all it is meant to do. |
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14 Oct 11 - 12:27 PM (#3238935) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: olddude did you see the new 1040 tax return .. It has been simplified .. a) how much did you make last year b) send it in c) sign here |
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14 Oct 11 - 01:03 PM (#3238946) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: GUEST,beardedbruce "THE PLAN WOULD BANKRUPT CORPORATIONS AND THE FEDERAL GOVT. ALIKE." Let me see- case 1- it bankrupts corporations- HOW?,, If by paying more in taxes, that would PREVENT bankrupting the Gov't. If it means the corporations pay LESS, how would they be bankrupted???? case 2 it bankrupts the gov't- HOW? If corporations are paying less taxes NOW, it means the gov't would get MORE taxes from those corporations. If the corporations are paying more taxes now, how are the corporations bankrupted by this plan????? |
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14 Oct 11 - 01:34 PM (#3238958) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: catspaw49 Bachmann needs better writers. That 999 line could have been improved by adding that Cain might disable the American economy and he should try it out first in the land of Nod................I mean they're mostly all into biblical shit so wtf! Spaw |
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14 Oct 11 - 03:04 PM (#3239012) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: GUEST,mg He needed to consider that the 666 reference would be brought up right away..I would change it to 10 10 10 have no tax on healthy food as defined by WIC, give a good deduction to lower income people, which I think remains in his plan..I am not going to defend or investigate his plan but it is good he brought it up because heaven knows we need to do something about the tax laws. Then I would add another 10..a reformation of our measuring system and change over to metric. mg |
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14 Oct 11 - 07:37 PM (#3239127) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Bobert I'm for 0-0-30.... B~ |
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14 Oct 11 - 08:15 PM (#3239149) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Greg F. Or 911. |
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14 Oct 11 - 11:30 PM (#3239209) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: dick greenhaus BB-Take a good look at this 999 plan---It would tax corporations at 9% of Gross income less capital expenditures (IF they were expenditures for items made in the US.) No deductions for salaries, medical plans, deprciation, R&D, rentals etc. That should do a good job of bankrupting corporations. The so-called "Party of Business" seems to have a great deal of difficulty distinguishing between revenues, net income and profits. THeir basis for economic comprehension appears to be Joe the Plumber. |
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15 Oct 11 - 10:58 AM (#3239387) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: catspaw49 ..........and Joe the Plumber is possibly running for Congress against Kucinich or Kaptor, two Dems who got screwed in a Republican redistricting................. Spaw |
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15 Oct 11 - 11:21 AM (#3239397) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Lighter Another 9-9-9 mystery is what happens to state and city sales taxes. Will the 9% national sales tax be added to these, resulting in some cases in an 18% total tax on every purchase? (Cain says he will exempt food: more math to be done.) If local sales taxes are repealed under 9-9-9, where do state and municipal revenues come from? Federal disbursements by a reorganized IRS? And if so, wouldn't 9-9-9 have to become more something like 15-15-15 right away? That doesn't sound much like conservative "small government," "fair taxation," or even simple "efficiency" to me. |
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15 Oct 11 - 12:38 PM (#3239429) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Ebbie Oh, I don't know. I quite like Nein. Nein. Nein. |
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15 Oct 11 - 01:11 PM (#3239445) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Greg F. That doesn't sound much like conservative "small government," "fair taxation," or even simple "efficiency" to me. No, it sounds like bullshit propounded by an idiot. But what else would one expect from the Tea Potty? |
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16 Oct 11 - 09:54 AM (#3239828) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Greg F. Imagine my surprise- ** Long ties to Koch brothers key to Cain's campaign By RYAN J. FOLEY - Associated Press 16 Oct 2011 IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain has cast himself as the outsider, the pizza magnate with real-world experience who will bring fresh ideas to the nation's capital. But Cain's economic ideas, support and organization have close ties to two billionaire brothers who bankroll right-leaning causes through their group Americans for Prosperity... http://news.yahoo.com/long-ties-koch-brothers-key-cains-campaign-110518961.html |
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16 Oct 11 - 11:04 PM (#3240019) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: GUEST,josepp Maybe Cain wants to take us back to the days of sharecropping. Only this time instead of farming the Big Boss's land, the CEOs give us everything--houses, cars, appliances--and we work it off. Half of everything we make both at work on our own time goes back to the CEOs at the end of the fiscal year and only then are our expenditures deducted from our remaining half. Instead of brozine--tin tokens that can only be spent at the plantation/company store--we already have plastic and every time we use it--bam--another 22 1/4% gets deducted from our remaining yearly half. Then they'll finally have us where they want us. Yassuh, boss! |
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17 Oct 11 - 01:52 PM (#3240325) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Charley Noble If the Koch brothers support Cain (and the current Mother Jones has a similar article indicating that they do), then the 999 plan has got to be good for big business. Charley Noble |
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17 Oct 11 - 04:48 PM (#3240440) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: GUEST,beardedbruce Dick, READ my post. If it bankrupts the corporations, then it will give the gov't LOTS of money. My post makes NO comment on the 999 plan, just on the obvious illogical statement that it would bankrupt BOTH corporations AND government. That does not require even looking at the plan- you can't take money from corporations and NOT have the goverment get more, or take LESS from the corporations and NOT have the government get MORE. |
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17 Oct 11 - 05:33 PM (#3240457) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Lighter Correction: according to NPR, food would not be exempt from the sales tax. Used goods would be exempt. So if you only eat used food, you'll be fine. One economist said he thought 9-9-9 might possibly raise as much Federal revenue as the current tax code. Others were very skeptical. Several observed that corporations would pay less than today, and families of four earning under $50,000 would pay considerably more, particularly as income goes down. Meanwhile, the "Cain camp" declines to give further details or reveal their math. |
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17 Oct 11 - 08:13 PM (#3240533) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Bobert Here's the deal... Millions of Americans are part of the working poor... Many are women who have been abandoned by their husbands and left to fend for themselves and the husband's kids and with Welfare Reform of '96 that means having to take minimum wage jobs... Do the math... $7.25 and hour and now we're going to take 18% (9-9) out of what they now make... So we're back to the minimum wage lower than at any time (after inflation) ever??? This will create tens of millions of more people living in poverty... B~ |
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17 Oct 11 - 09:07 PM (#3240555) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: GUEST,Mrr at work heh heh heh his name is Cain and he likes the number 999 heh heh heh |
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17 Oct 11 - 09:45 PM (#3240570) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Bee-dubya-ell So a painting worth several million dollars is tax exempt because it's used while a $12.95 print of the same painting is taxable because it's new. Makes a lot of sense to me. |
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17 Oct 11 - 09:55 PM (#3240576) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Stilly River Sage It does if you're a billionaire investor. SRS |
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17 Oct 11 - 11:34 PM (#3240597) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Jack the Sailor The best thing any liberal could possibly do is join a tea party. Scream a bit. register as Republican and vote for Cain in a primary. |
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18 Oct 11 - 06:54 AM (#3240677) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: GUEST,beardedbruce "The best thing any liberal could possibly do is join a tea party." I have to agree with this, but probably for different reasons... |
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18 Oct 11 - 01:46 PM (#3240856) Subject: RE: BS: 9-9-9 This, Mr. Cain!!! From: Lighter Fox News analyst Peter Schiff agrees that 9-9-9 would effectively raise taxes for most everybody who gets a paycheck and earns less than $50,000/yr. When asked if he likes it better than the current tax code, he said, "Sure! Because *I'd* pay less!" Fox invited the Cain people to respond. Their complete written reply was, "The problem with Peter Schiff's analysis is that it is incorrect." This was just a couple of hours ago, so it isn't online yet. |