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19 Nov 11 - 11:47 AM (#3259966) Subject: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Bert A dear friend of mine Marti Rogers Here's Her Website says that 'you are not a folksinger unless you can sing Matty Groves'. I will not dispute that, as she sings much better than I do, but Would counter it with 'you are not a folksinger unless you can sing The Old Sow Song'. So, just for fun, what would you say? you are not a folksinger unless you can sing.... |
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19 Nov 11 - 11:52 AM (#3259973) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Pete Jennings You are not a folksinger unless you CAN sing. PS. Actually, thinking about it...LOL. |
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19 Nov 11 - 12:06 PM (#3259982) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Deckman At least 1,000 folksongs from memory! |
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19 Nov 11 - 12:20 PM (#3259986) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Bert Uh Oh! Deckman. I'd better start learning. My song list is about five hundred and they are not all folk songs. (And I wouldn't sing some of those without swatting up.) And True Pete, True. But let us not discourage those who are just learning. It does take a lot of practice to be a singer. |
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19 Nov 11 - 12:37 PM (#3259996) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Dave the Gnome ...you can sing The Famous Flower of Serving Men. Or, for the more contemporarly minded, Sad eyed Lady of the Lowlands:-) DtG |
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19 Nov 11 - 01:15 PM (#3260015) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: The Sandman bollocks |
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19 Nov 11 - 01:21 PM (#3260017) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Bert Ah yes! Good Soldier. A great folk song to the tune of Colonel Bogey. Bollocks, and the same to you Bollocks they make a very fine stew... Do you have any more lyrics GSS? |
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19 Nov 11 - 01:27 PM (#3260022) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: johncharles ...it costs you more to get to the gig than they pay you. john |
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19 Nov 11 - 01:45 PM (#3260037) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Bert LOL john. |
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19 Nov 11 - 02:22 PM (#3260069) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Richard Bridge you know the difference between a folksinger and a folksong singer. |
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19 Nov 11 - 02:47 PM (#3260082) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Bert Yes, but there are so few folksingers around nowadays that the distinction is rarely made and the term is commonly used to include folksong singers. |
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19 Nov 11 - 03:57 PM (#3260114) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Elmore Sing through your nose,Murder good prose,And sound precisely like Dylan. |
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19 Nov 11 - 03:59 PM (#3260117) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Richard Bridge Sad but true Bert. But please - just don't sing any Bob Dylan! |
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19 Nov 11 - 04:00 PM (#3260118) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: BTNG you finally workout that this thread is yet another variation on the never ending What is Folk Music debate |
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19 Nov 11 - 04:06 PM (#3260120) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: fat B****rd .....you foresee another batch of unpleasant rants - which have nothing to do with the subject - between the usual suspects. |
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19 Nov 11 - 04:10 PM (#3260124) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: BTNG I don't need to apologise for my observation |
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19 Nov 11 - 04:13 PM (#3260127) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Little Hawk I have sung Matty Groves, so I guess I'm a folksinger. ;-) I also sing Bob Dylan's songs frequently, and I find much enjoyment in annoying people who object to that practice, but I don't try to sound like him, vocally speaking. What for? We already have Bob to do that, just like we already have Neil Young to sound like Neil Young and Louis Armstrong to sound like Louis Armstrong. I have my own voice to work with, after all, so why not use that? I will occasionally mimic some of Bob's typical phrasings and accent just for fun (as Joan Baez does too on occasion), but I mostly prefer to sing in my own natural voice. I believe that the thing that pisses people off about Dylan is... - He's done way better than they did. - He's a lot more famous than they are. And better paid. - More people like him than like them. - He's probably more talented than they are too (although that's not a certainty). or... - They just don't get what he's doing or saying, period. Incomprehension does not make for good listening. |
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19 Nov 11 - 04:29 PM (#3260132) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: BTNG Hawk if you want to find out how Dylan reacted, on several occasions, to his being called a folk singer, read Colin Irwin's Legendary Sessions: Bob Dylan: Highway 61 Revisited |
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19 Nov 11 - 04:39 PM (#3260138) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Tunesmith Back in the mid-1960s, Bob Dylan was one of only one hundred and fifty-three protest-singers active in the States. Or was that one hundred and fifty-four protest-singers! |
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19 Nov 11 - 04:48 PM (#3260144) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Bert This is supposed to be a fun thread. I was hoping that people would submit the 'one song' that they sing better than anyone else. LH, you brought up some good points. Wouldn't the world be a better place if more singers copied Louis Armstrong instead of Bob Dylan? BTING, I suppose it is really 'what is folk music' but I was hoping for that one song from each of us rather than a general discussion. So what is your answer to? you are not a folksinger unless you can sing.... |
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19 Nov 11 - 04:51 PM (#3260145) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: fat B****rd Something that starts with "As I walked out..." |
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19 Nov 11 - 04:52 PM (#3260147) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Joe_F Dink's song. |
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19 Nov 11 - 05:17 PM (#3260161) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,999 The Lumberman's Alphabet A is for axes that you may all know; And B is for boys that make them all go; C is for choppers so early begun And D is for danger we often stand in. CHORUS : 'Tis merry, 'tis merry, 'tis merry are we No mortal on earth, so happy as we. A derry, Lo derry, Ring derry dum. Give us shantymen's grog and there'll nothing go wrong. E is the echo that through the woods rang: F is the foreman, head one of our gang; G is the grindstone so merrily goes round And H is the handle, so smoothly 'tis worn. I is the Iron that mark-ed the pine; J is the Jov-al that's never behind; K is the keen edge our axes we keep And L is the lice that over us creep. M is the moss we patch-ed the cracks And N is the needle we patch-ed our pants; O is the owl that hooteth at night And P is the pine that always falls right. Q is the quarrel we never allow; R is the river we float our logs down S is the sleds so stout and so strong And T is the teams that go jog 'em along. U is the use we put our teams to; V is the valley we draw our logs through; W is the woods we leave in the spring And this is all I am going to sing. |
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19 Nov 11 - 05:32 PM (#3260165) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: BTNG I'm not a folk singer |
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19 Nov 11 - 06:04 PM (#3260194) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""You're not a Folksinger unless""..... you know that the two earliest folk songs known, "Summer is Icumen In" (approx 1250) and "The Cutty Wren" (1302, I believe) do not fit the criteria laid down by the 1954 definition, and can still sing at least one of them. Don T. |
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19 Nov 11 - 07:14 PM (#3260220) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Deckman "Youksee Humma Humma" .... kittos ... bob(deckman)nelson |
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19 Nov 11 - 07:21 PM (#3260223) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: kendall I never learned Matty Groves, but I was singing folk songs before Robert Zimmerman was born. |
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19 Nov 11 - 08:16 PM (#3260235) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Tootler The Chevy Chase in full from memory - all 76 verses of it. |
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19 Nov 11 - 08:27 PM (#3260239) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Tattie Bogle Thanks Don T, I'm OK then! BTW, there are a lot earlier versions of Matty Groves! |
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19 Nov 11 - 09:55 PM (#3260252) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Big Al Whittle I never liked Matty Groves. I mean what is the point of that song? As a feat of memory....it's not really up there with Rainman. Read from a loose leaf folder (as it generally is) - its just a ghastly waste of everybody's life. Is there a moral to the tale? 1) in church, keep your mind on the service 2) always choose the worse looking knife - it works better 3) don't lose you head over a another man's wife 4) women generally end up on top Hi ho holiday....what IS that all about? I think Hi Ho Silver Lining's a better folksong. |
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20 Nov 11 - 12:37 AM (#3260282) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,Neville Grundy Someone has shouted "Judas!" at you. |
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20 Nov 11 - 04:40 AM (#3260310) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,Tweetiepie T'was as a mere lass back in the dephs that I was involved in a band and we sang Matty. Those were the days my friend. 1972/3 wonderful ones but short lived alas and alack methinks. X |
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20 Nov 11 - 05:45 AM (#3260320) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Big Al Whittle well on account of your extreme youth Tweets, you are forgive. But really chopping people's heads off and putting the woman on top. As Mr Godfrey said in Dad's Army - I don't like that sort of thing.... |
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20 Nov 11 - 05:52 AM (#3260321) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: tweetiepie Al...you flirting with me????? |
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20 Nov 11 - 09:13 AM (#3260383) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Ref ...You've figured out that drawing artificial distinctions about repertoire and experience is a ridiculous and self-limiting exercise. get OVER yourselves. And Bert? It would be a better world if people would sing, even other peoples' songs, in their OWN voices instead of "copying" anyone. |
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20 Nov 11 - 10:08 AM (#3260396) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Elmore OMG. Yesterday I saw this thread, found it amusing, and stole a couple of lines from Eric Bogle's "Do You Sing Any Dylan?" It appears that someone took me seriously. I enjoy Dylan, love folk music regardless of its definition,and apologize to Bert if My above entry in any way screwed up his concept. |
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20 Nov 11 - 11:44 AM (#3260429) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,Guest-JD ...you understand your voice is just as necessary/important as Bob Dylan's, sing with community/for community, give a damn about Community, understand the songbird's voice is beautiful because it sings at all. |
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20 Nov 11 - 12:51 PM (#3260453) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Stringsinger You're not a folksinger unless you are part of the tradition which means that you learn from the tradition and do something of your own with it. Imitation doesn't get it. Influences are important. Take these songs and make them your own. Rewrite them if you have to. Stop just being a scalp collector and become an integral part of the process. Traditional folk singers are not decrepit museum pieces but part of an evolution. There can be no folk music without evolution. Bob Dylan is a pop star. He wanted to be Elvis Presley. He has not lived what he writes about. Woody Guthrie never saw much money from his songs but "This Land" is known by every school child throughout the world. He learned from the Carter Family, Leadbelly, other traditional singers and wrote simply, clearly, and with the kind of brevity that folk songs have. Jean Ritchie is another one who writes songs this way. Pete Seeger writes this way as well. You're not a folksinger unless you write and sing songs for their sake, not just to make a buck off of them. A rich folksinger is an oxymoron. |
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20 Nov 11 - 01:17 PM (#3260479) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,Guest-JD Stringsinger, your mention of Jean is wonderfully encouraging. Your insight is very fitting for the intentional farming community that I live and work in everyday. We are a CSA run by the mentally ill, and every morning before we go to work, 60 to 100 of us sing together and someone will share a poem. If I stood up and quoted some of the entries from this thread, I cannot tell you how many schizoprenic farmers would become mute and be ashamed of their own voice. These are basic folk songs which have proven to be a crucial aspect of our farm's success for over 100 years. So to all the snobbish folkies, there is a folksinger in all of us, and while we wash the dishes or plow the fields, we don't need permission or need to know every verse of 1000 songs. We just sing...and that's a beautiful thing. |
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20 Nov 11 - 01:19 PM (#3260483) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Stringsinger Guest-JD, I second your emotion. |
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20 Nov 11 - 01:53 PM (#3260494) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Ref JD and Stringsinger, you've got it right! Except...every school child knows PART of "This Land." Very few know the "In the streets of the city..." verse. |
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20 Nov 11 - 02:19 PM (#3260503) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: The Sandman There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me; Sign was painted, it said private property; But on the back side it said nothing This land was made for you and me. In the squares of the city, In the shadow of a steeple; By the relief office, I'd seen my people. As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking, Is this land made for you and me? |
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20 Nov 11 - 02:36 PM (#3260508) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Young Buchan ... without the written words in front of you. |
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20 Nov 11 - 02:37 PM (#3260510) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Young Buchan ... more traditional songs than non traditional ones. |
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20 Nov 11 - 02:39 PM (#3260512) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Young Buchan ... to people sitting no more than 10 yards away without using a bloody amplifier. |
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20 Nov 11 - 02:40 PM (#3260513) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Young Buchan ... unaccompanied. |
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20 Nov 11 - 02:46 PM (#3260516) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Elmore Through your nose |
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20 Nov 11 - 02:47 PM (#3260517) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Bert Yes Stringsinger. Traditions change. The pub 'party piece' sing around is dying and being replaced by the Open Mike. More and more song writers are coming to the fore and are getting better. "This is one I wrote myself" is being replaced by "this is an original" and doesn't elicit the silent groans that it did twenty or more years ago. ...You're not a folksinger unless you write and sing songs for their sake... That is true but I also like to sing songs that entertain, amuse and sometimes educate my audience. |
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20 Nov 11 - 03:13 PM (#3260530) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Big Al Whittle Tweetie Pie whenever you fancy a pluck, my banjo is at your service.... |
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20 Nov 11 - 07:10 PM (#3260614) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: tweetiepie :>}} tweet tweet twiddly dee.... My first foray into the world of folk was through "the Joan Baez song book" Taught myself a few basic chords on guitar and went forth into the great folk unknown. Never was allowed to do the nasal bit. When first starting to sing with my ex he said" You can cut that out right now" I just automatically went into a nasal twang but stopped it as was told!!! I remember the Days of yore in the "Fir tree"..Iffley road Oxford with great singers like Graham Metcalfe and Ian Giles..now they can sing songs and I can listen till the cows come home. Sorry gone into reminisce mode. X |
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20 Nov 11 - 08:59 PM (#3260649) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,999 "Stringsinger, your mention of Jean is wonderfully encouraging. Your insight is very fitting for the intentional farming community that I live and work in everyday. We are a CSA run by the mentally ill, and every morning before we go to work, 60 to 100 of us sing together and someone will share a poem. If I stood up and quoted some of the entries from this thread, I cannot tell you how many schizoprenic farmers would become mute and be ashamed of their own voice. These are basic folk songs which have proven to be a crucial aspect of our farm's success for over 100 years. So to all the snobbish folkies, there is a folksinger in all of us, and while we wash the dishes or plow the fields, we don't need permission or need to know every verse of 1000 songs. We just sing...and that's a beautiful thing." You have made my year. Thank you. |
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20 Nov 11 - 09:21 PM (#3260659) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Suegorgeous What's Matty Groves got to do with anything? what if you just don't LIKE Matty Groves?! :) |
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20 Nov 11 - 10:03 PM (#3260670) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: BTNG "what if you just don't LIKE Matty Groves?!" then, I suppose, you're not a folk singer. |
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21 Nov 11 - 08:39 AM (#3260826) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Elmore Mathey Groves |
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21 Nov 11 - 09:04 AM (#3260846) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: foggers ...You've played at gigs where your band outnumbers the audience AND there is an average age of 65! |
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21 Nov 11 - 09:07 AM (#3260850) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: foggers ....Oh and we sing "Shady Grove" rather than "Matty Groves"... I guess that just does not count? Unless of course the sentiments of this thread straddle both sides of the Atlantic? |
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21 Nov 11 - 09:25 AM (#3260867) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Tunesmith Matty Groves! What's not to like! Below are links to two folk music icons performing the song. Doc Watson Sandy and the lads! |
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21 Nov 11 - 10:19 AM (#3260910) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: grumpy al you can spend at least ten minutes tuning your guitar before you start AND THEN retuning half way through without stopping the song! |
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21 Nov 11 - 10:26 AM (#3260915) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: DrugCrazed ...you sing folk songs. Pedantic answer! |
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21 Nov 11 - 10:30 AM (#3260921) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: grumpy al No just observational |
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21 Nov 11 - 11:47 AM (#3260953) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,Guest-JD Guest,999 Right back at ya ; ) Happy Thanksgiving! |
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28 Nov 11 - 11:12 PM (#3265184) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,banjopicker You dont care how many people are in the audience. For example: Im told a story of when The Weavers first started and I think they were singing at the vangaurd they only had 1 or 2 people in the audience that night so they got off stage and sat around the 1 or 2 people in the audience and got them to sing along. |
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29 Nov 11 - 01:13 AM (#3265225) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: MGM·Lion I am afraid I have never sung Little Matty Groves ~~~ but please may I claim qualification for having very frequently over the last 55 years sung Little Musgrave And Lady Barnard Child #81? Oh, go on... ~Michael~ |
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29 Nov 11 - 01:46 AM (#3265234) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Ernest you sell your Porsche. |
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29 Nov 11 - 03:49 AM (#3265256) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,Ralphie .....Unless. You get mis-booked for a Hells Angels Christmas party, and win them round with every single murder ballad you know! They loved it! (and were incredibly nice people too...It just wasn't what they were expecting!) Phew! Brilliant gig in the end! |
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29 Nov 11 - 04:32 AM (#3265270) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST "you can spend at least ten minutes tuning your guitar..." it must be a 12-string |
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29 Nov 11 - 11:08 AM (#3265468) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,Don Wise ...you've got a finger in your ear............. |
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29 Nov 11 - 03:11 PM (#3265613) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Tootler "you can spend at least ten minutes tuning your guitar..." it must be a 12-string Half an hour for a 12 string, surely? 5 minutes for a ukulele? |
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29 Nov 11 - 04:08 PM (#3265658) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,Songbob You know you're a folksinger if you spend your life learning songs no one in the "public" wants to hear, and you don't know a single one of the songs they DO want to hear. You're probably a folksinger (or a bluegrass musician) if you know the difference between a four- and a five-string banjo isn't just the number of strings. And you know you're a folksinger if you can hear someone sing an old song and not only do you know two variants of it, but you can name at least one old geezer who sang each of 'em. Shall I go on? Bob |
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30 Nov 11 - 03:30 AM (#3265873) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
A friend used to claim that if he was due to be executed, his last request would be a 12-string guitar and time to tune it... |
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30 Nov 11 - 03:36 AM (#3265877) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST,Auxiris . . . you don't care if there even IS an audience. |
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30 Nov 11 - 09:07 AM (#3265997) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: Sue Allan You're not a folksinger unless ... ... you've been inspired to sing by other great folksingers. The mention of Joan Baez and the Joan Baez Songbook above reminded me how much I owe to her, and the book, which introduced me to Child ballads and traditional songs as well as protest songs and newer styles of folk. Think I'd also add: ... you've had the chance to explore your own regional repertoire, songs new or old that relate to or come from your own part of the country. I love the sense of place some folk songs evoke, offering a way to celebrate your home and/or special place. |
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30 Nov 11 - 09:14 AM (#3266000) Subject: RE: You're not a Folksinger unless...... From: GUEST I don't know. I would say that you are not a folksinger unless you are influenced by a very wide array of styles including punk, heavy metal, rap and reggae. Of course train and cowboy songs and life from the past are all a part of the folk process too. I doubt that many other folksingers would agree with me but then they are not real folksingers, Ha! |