Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?(Online Piracy Act)

30 Dec 11 - 12:40 PM (#3282012)
Subject: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: Richard Bridge

I have just sent this message to talk talk, my ISP, with whom I was negotiating an upgrade to ADSL2+

"I see from today's Guardian that the changes introduced to the talk talk ISP service to impliment its "Homesafe" service track the URL of EVERY website visited by every customer, whether or not they opt in to Homesafe. I also see that this tracking has been condemned by the Open Rights Group, theinquirer.net (where I must have missed it) and hot-laptop.co.uk.

First, I am a solicitor, and the risk that this compromises client security is unacceptable.

Second, it is so easy to see how this tracking could in the hands of an oppressive government could compromise democracy itself. Think China, Iran, Iraq, Syria, and indeed the Arab spring itself.

I am pretty shocked that I was not at any time expressly told about this spying: the introduction of a similar spy system at btinternet was the reason for my first leaving them as ISP and coming to F2S (who assured me that they would never impliment such spying) and indeed when F2s became part of pipex I asked for and was given a similar assurance.

Am I too late to cancel my order?"

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30 Dec 11 - 08:37 PM (#3282218)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: JohnInKansas

This might be related to reports that many, if not all, of the newer "smart phones" have a preinstalled program intended to track where users go on the web, purportedly for purposes of anonymous "targeted advertising," which of course is a "product" that the servers/services can sell profitably.

There was a flurry of complaints in the US, and lots of lamentations, a couple of weeks ago, resulting in numerous "explanations" from those using the tracking, most of whom apparently had no idea (do we believe that?) what unintended and more invasive purposes could exploit the information being gathered. A Congressional investigation was demanded. The FBI was accused of having sought information about the system(s). The FBI of course denied any contact with the makers. No reports of whether Homeland Security and/or other "security agencies" had made any use of it, although there were suggestions that some may have "requested the information" that would only be available from a system of the sort. The makers of this "legal malware" of course denied any objectionable intent and blamed the ISPs and phone services for "any misuse," while of course saying "but there hasn't been any."

Unfortunately I didn't make notes when the news was current, and when I looked today I can't find any mention of the whole buzz in any current reports. (I had hoped at least to identify a name for the program/hardware "bug.")

The sudden disappearance of any and all reference to what was a widespread concern so recently would seem to support claims that the black helicopters have visited all who complained, and the "users" have tightened their controls for more effective concealment.

I feel safe in saying that I found the reported tracking highly objectionable - but I'm safe only 'cause all the Feds left Kansas when it got cheaper to buy our 'shine from the Oklahoma potato farmers about 40 years ago.

I'm pretty sure some of my eNewsletters had reports, and I may find a chance to look back through them. If the reports prevously linked from the eNews have disappeared I'll try to save a piece of Al foil for you to make a hat out of - like the one I'll be wearing.

Of course, your instance may be entirely unrelated to the one I'm recalling; although it sounds remarkably similar.

John

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31 Dec 11 - 04:03 AM (#3282299)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: Richard Bridge

Sounds like Garg is off his meds again.

Incidentally, I do run PGP, and although I've been badgering clients to use it since I first ran 98SE I have not yet persuaded a single one to adopt it not to suggest a different protocol that the client prefers.

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31 Dec 11 - 05:53 AM (#3282326)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: JohnInKansas

The smartphone malware is called "Carrier IQ," and is (maybe) primarily used only on Android phones.

My Email newsletters revealed:

01 Dec 2011 Carrier IQ: Which phones are infected, and how to remove it

and:

22 Dec 2011 EFF reverse engineers Carrier IQ

Both of these are from quite a while after the initial discovery and much of the flap over it.

Most of the resulting furor came from questions asked of other providers about whether they used something similar. Vague "sort of answers" from several ISPs suggested that they did do data collection very similar to what the Android services admitted to collecting via Carrier IQ, but it was clear that Carrier IQ was capable of collecting and reporting much more invasive information than they said they were actually gathering. (It appears to incorporate a key-stroke logger.)

Several services/providers subsequently issued either "policy statements" intended to clarify what data they were willing to admit to collecting, or "semi-technical" explanations of what methods and equipement they used for collection. Few of the statements were very satisfying for those with concerns about what personal data was being ratholed by the collectors, or what personal data could be collected if someone decided to more fully utilize the known and/or suspected collection capabilities.

The "whole story" about the discovery and responses apparently pre-dates the 01 Dec article (first link) and I haven't looked through the mail older than that.

The second link above has a fairly good explanation of known features of Carrier IQ that have been published (AFAIK) but most of the other collection methods, and what is done with the data acquired, remain rather mysterious.

It's quite possible that the revelation of what your ISP "intends to do" is just an admission of what they've been doing, "clarified" in response to the excitement stirred up by the surprise discovery that Carrier IQ is in all Android phones, and by suggestions that similar systems probably are in other brands(?).

John

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31 Dec 11 - 06:51 AM (#3282345)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: Genie

As an aside, I wish people would not use acronyms without at least once identifying what they stand for - unless they are so common that no one would need ask (e.g., TV, IRS, FEMA, FBI).

The Stop Online Piracy Act - SOPA - is so new that not everyone will instantly recognize what it stands for.

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31 Dec 11 - 07:32 AM (#3282354)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: Newport Boy

IRS ? FEMA ?

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31 Dec 11 - 07:48 AM (#3282358)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: greg stephens

While I'm sure it's all very worrying but I don't understand one word of any of it. I shall go back to threads about the Dorian mode or the true origins of St James Infirmary.

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31 Dec 11 - 08:28 AM (#3282367)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: Richard Bridge

I assumed that, given the attention Max has been paying to SOPA, we would all know what it was. I don't know what FEMA is either. But neither is necessary to understand the risk posed by Homesafe - which, additionally, I pretty much explained.

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31 Dec 11 - 12:58 PM (#3282506)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: dick greenhaus

The Risk SOPA presents is that, simply put, any appearance of alledgedly copyrighted material could permanently shut down the site. Mudcat and Youtube are prime targets.

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31 Dec 11 - 03:07 PM (#3282579)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: JohnInKansas

I believe FEMA is the US Federal Emergency Management Administration, and is the one primarily "in charge of" many abuses, although there doesn't really seem to be anyone responsible for for much of anything. Their orginal purpose was to respond to natural disasters and the like, but they think disasters within their jurisdiction include "terrorist actions." Of course the FBI, ATF (recently renamed ATFE?), CIA, NSA, TSA, NHTSA and the like all disagree with them, and of course each disagrees with each and every one of the others. (We are so well-protected that most of us fear our protectors more than we worry about the "enemies.")

The convenience of using the acronyms is because once you've "sort of heard of them" you "sort of know who they are" but hardly anyone, least of all those manipulating (the term "managing" doesn't apply) the systems, can actually remember the "full official titles" that go with them.

John

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01 Jan 12 - 01:24 AM (#3282826)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: GUEST,Periboob

For most of my 70 years I gave no thought to fear of my (US) government. Then I read a fragment of alleged history, that the Dutch Jews were arrested at a much greater rate than any other group in Europe during the buildup to the Holocaust--because the Dutch were very organized and efficient record keepers. When the Nazis took over, they had records of who was Jewish, and where they lived. I am sure that sort of thing could never happen here, and I am also sure that Germans were sure it could never happen there. So, before my government wants to collect any information about me, I want to know how their possession of that info is going to be used to protect and help me.

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13 May 17 - 12:56 AM (#3854705)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: GUEST,pauperback

JohnInKansas @ 31 Dec 11 - 03:07 PM 

A.T.F. always puzzled me.

Why alcohol, tobacco & firearms (and now explosives)? Is it because they all kill?

Anymore seems the government's job is to try to kill you.

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13 May 17 - 04:51 AM (#3854723)
Subject: RE: Tech: More dangerous than SOPA?
From: Jack Campin

The bizarre attitudes of the rogue mod strike again. I posted a thread about the application of the "Ocean" technology to the Brexit referendum and Trump's election:

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=162062

(VERY new news, I think).

Nutcase-bigot mod promptly shoved it below the line (probably without even following my link). It's no more or less political than this thread, and no more or less technological.

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This mod made a title clarification and moved it back up top. Let's see if it stays put.

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I'm the music editor, and I'm the one who moved the other thread to the non-music section. Technology threads remain in the music section only if they can be reasonably considered to be related to the use of technology for music or for music research or the use of Mudcat. The rule for obituaries is similar - if the dead person was a musician, not just somebody who sang a song once in awhile, the thread stays in the music section. This particular thread did pass the music-related or mudcat-related test, since online privacy laws have a lot of effect on music research. The other thread didn't pass the test.
-Joe Offer, nutcase-bigot mod-

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