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28 Jan 12 - 06:17 PM (#3298144) Subject: BS: Dog training--best intentions but... From: Crowhugger We've all done it, made a faux-paw, some kind of "why didn't I think it through at the time" dog training mistake. Or maybe not, maybe it's just me. I goofed big time with the youngest of the pack, a male standard poodle. I try not to kick myself too hard over it and just learn from it, but sheesh I should've KNOWN better. At the time we got Mulligan we had 2 dogs: one 4 and one 5 years old, both altered female std. poodle crosses, both well socialized and largely well behaved*, both and with basic obedience commands including generally excellent recall. (*Another training boo-boo I made was with the 6-year-old, having to do with hats...another story.) In the summer of 2008, after years of regular walks (she walked, I walker-ed) with a friend on dog-busy trails, this friend suffered a very unpleasant run-in with a poorly socialized dog and an even less socialized owner. To be fair, her involved dog also had/has his moments of setting aside good doggy manners. Although the encounter didn't result in vet bills for anyone, my friend chose to take her daily walks to an area where one almost never encounters another human or dog. For several months I often joined her on those empty trails; we met only 2 people in that time. My husband and I got Mulligan older than is ideal--he was 4.5 months so the window for the very easiest socialization was closed but he was still young enough that it could be done well enough if I had only paid appropriate attention. So, what was I thinking? Apparently not very much. I continued mostly to go on these remote walks until early in 2010 when, in a period of 3 weeks, Mulligan changed from being our adorable, obedient young dog to being a crazed and unruly terror. The first week I was startled. The second week I couldn't believe my eyes. The third week I knew I needed help. Off leash he chased and circled some strangers. He barked at everything except cars when we were driving. On leash he barked and lunged at joggers, bicycles and skateboards. Cujo, move over. A quick behavioural consult told the tale: Too much freedom, not enough effective socialization. Gee, really? Duh. Following the advice received largely returned the Mullster to being the lovely dog we knew. He still needed specific desensititization to the things he was never socialized with--kids, bikes, skateboards. To this day I measure his freedom--he gets a certain amount of leash time and off leash limitation-reminders (sometimes with a long line, depending how rowdy he's feeling that day) at the start of every woodland walk to remind him about impulse control. I expect that for the rest of his life, each spring when life comes out of winter hiding I'll have to remind him that every child, bicycle and skateboard belongs to me and that he can't have them until I say so, which of course I never do. Your turn! |
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28 Jan 12 - 07:29 PM (#3298165) Subject: RE: BS: Dog training--best intentions but... From: gnu Not enough info. How long did the dog get interaction before separation? Is the dog papered? Does the dog show aggresive behaviour to anyone else?... like visitors in your home that visit regularly? So much is missing that I would hesitate to say another word. I am no expert but without further info or seeing and interacting with the dog in person, I feel little advice can be given. I surely hope youse can work thru this. |
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28 Jan 12 - 11:12 PM (#3298255) Subject: RE: BS: Dog training--best intentions but... From: Crowhugger gnu, You're quite right about not enough information to offer any useful advice, because that wasn't my intent. I think we could be having our very first "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus" moment. You know, the book that talked about the different ways men and women communicate? In sharing my story, I'm not actually looking for a fix, just sharing a story, starting a conversation, maybe hoping for a "me too" or an "oh yeah, I know someone who..." To answer questions: If by papered you mean CKC registered, yes but not for breeding--he is altered. Can you clarify what you mean by "How long did the dog get interaction before separation" (do you mean separation from mother). And, few come and go in our house, and certainly that doesn't help with early socialization. Things are not as serious as you seemed to conclude, probably my fault for describing his 3 week outburst as unruly terror or whatever I said. That was an expression of emotional impact, not a statement of objective fact. I expect and, other than that episode,, always get very good behaviour from my dogs, so when the opposite occurred it got my attention in a very big way. In the scheme of things I see far more troubling dogs than Mulligan on any weekend at the dog park. Nearly every time I walk where I'm not already known, people stop me to ask how I get my dogs to walk so well. That stop-and-talk causes little pulling and no jumping, but lots of appropriate sniffing and if they find the person has treats, they'll offer a sit on spec. That's been the case even when Mulligan's unacceptable behaviour was emerging over those 3 weeks that so adroitly got my attention. |
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29 Jan 12 - 01:06 AM (#3298293) Subject: RE: BS: Dog training--best intentions but... From: Ebbie Maybe that's really what Mulligan wanted: full attention? Probably not- but the older I get the more admiration and respect I have for how dogs think, act and react. It sounds, incidentally, like you got him sorted- that's great. |
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29 Jan 12 - 10:14 AM (#3298439) Subject: RE: BS: Dog training--best intentions but... From: Crowhugger Probably not exactly wanting attention, but I'm sure it helped, given his breed and personality, that he was given more to think about more often. He also had chronic bilateral ear infections for a long time until we found the right food. He's been more relaxed since that was resolved, but that wasn't the cause of the outburst, just a factor in its degree and in his general energy levels. |
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29 Jan 12 - 01:57 PM (#3298561) Subject: RE: BS: Dog training--best intentions but... From: gnu "Can you clarify what you mean by "How long did the dog get interaction before separation" (do you mean separation from mother). And, few come and go in our house, and certainly that doesn't help with early socialization." Sure... "I continued mostly to go on these remote walks until early in 2010 when, in a period of 3 weeks, Mulligan changed..." not enough effective socialization. "...not enough effective socialization." I guess I linked these statements. Apparently I was incorrect. Also, I thought you might be asking for advice. My mistakes. |
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29 Jan 12 - 07:44 PM (#3298767) Subject: RE: BS: Dog training--best intentions but... From: Crowhugger Hmmm, I seem to be having a brain cramp day cuz I still don't get the connection between your question and the clarification. But why let a little thing like that stop me from talking about dogs, one of my favourite topics?! ;-) You were correct that the two phrases are linked, at least to the extent that my frequent choice to take those remote walks rather than local "busy" walks, (bike-busy, skateboard-busy, jogger-busy etc.) contributed to insufficient quantity of good socialization opportunities, especially in the 4.5-6 month window, and even up to 10 or 12 months, which is still a far easier time for it than after the brain has fully matured. Add that to my giving him insufficient boundaries and it is no great mystery that when he hit the "teen months" his boundary testing was exaggerated. The greater mystery, looking back, is that I made such rookie mistakes even though I had successfully socialized 3 dogs as puppies and re-socialized a 16 months old rescue. Shoulda known better... |
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29 Jan 12 - 08:14 PM (#3298792) Subject: RE: BS: Dog training--best intentions but... From: Paul Burke My great friend Ed of Cape Clear, many moons ago, was provided with a half-trained guide dog (he being blind). It was probably the world's second worst guide dog*, but he loved it as a doggonality, and doggedly defended it against critics who pointed out that it was downright dangerous, despite the obvious fact that it was. *The worst is reputed to have linved in Germany about 20 years ago, and to have killed three owners. |
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29 Jan 12 - 09:19 PM (#3298814) Subject: RE: BS: Dog training--best intentions but... From: Crowhugger Now THOSE are training mistakes!! If the "pros" can do that, I don't feel so foolish. I'm sure glad he survived the dog to raise more goats and tell songs--even in those short samples it's clear that while yes he's singing he's really telling the story. |