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11 Mar 12 - 04:46 PM (#3321419) Subject: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge 1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/10/rick-santorum-wins-kansas-republican 2. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/10/america-war-on-sex-hots-up |
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11 Mar 12 - 05:47 PM (#3321437) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Bill D Yes.... we know.... this is by far the strangest election *I* have seen...and I remember back to Eisenhower/Stephenson, and voted for JFK in 1960. Someday there will be doctoral theses written on how the far right-wingnuts got so much traction. I have MY theories... namely that the Republicans proceed by pandering to several single-issue groups,(gun nuts, anti-abortionists, anti-tax zealots, ..and let's face it...racists) and this time some of those groups got semi-organized as the "Tea Party", which used the modern media to promote this "anything goes if we can beat Obama" movement. They felt 'empowered' by winning a bunch of seats in Congress and then......... when it became obvious that Obama was going to be VERY hard to beat, many of the half-way competent conservatives decided not to even try...leaving the primary selection to the strange assortment we now see. What remains to be seen is whether all these odd groups will 'hold their nose' and vote the "Anything but Obama" route. Most of us think not...and hope not...but we KNOW at least 40-45% would vote for Beelzebub if he promised to support their single-issue causes. |
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11 Mar 12 - 05:59 PM (#3321442) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Jeri I think they will vote at the Repub convention and not select a nominee, so they will vote a second time and not nominate anyone. Before the third vote, a new guy will show up and everybody will immediately jump on the bandwagon for this new Republican-du Jour and that's who will be nominated. I can't figure out if it's likely to be Palin or Jeb Bush or Rush or somebody else, but it's going to be someone who falls out of favor just as fast as all the previous momentarily popular republicans... but they'll be stuck with their choice. |
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11 Mar 12 - 06:18 PM (#3321455) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Bert Don't even think about another Bush, Jeri. That's all America needs, another George III. |
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11 Mar 12 - 06:23 PM (#3321458) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: GUEST,olddude I think they all been sipping the coolaide ... I mean there is a wave of stupid running around this country and not just from one party either to fill several oceans ... bizarre is all I can say .. never saw anything like it and don't think anyone will again |
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11 Mar 12 - 06:25 PM (#3321459) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: gnu "and don't think anyone will again" Wanna bet? |
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11 Mar 12 - 06:57 PM (#3321468) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: saulgoldie You know, I have a recurring thought. Yes, a thought. I know they are dangerous, but I can't help myself. I just think. Anyway, my thought is...we *know* these people are fact-averse, logic-phobic, and rejecting of anything discovered by the scientific process. But somehow, somewhere we *have* to talk to them and help them see the error in their ways. I am totally without clue as to how to do this. I mean, how do you lead someone through a fact-based logical sequence when they think that facts and logic are some sort of anti-Christ program? I don't even know what passes for logic in their paradigm. But until we crack the formula, we will have to accept this ninniness as part of the American political landscape. Saul |
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11 Mar 12 - 07:02 PM (#3321471) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge The "compromise candidate" from an unlikely source was how Margaret Thatcher's favourite TV series "Yes Minister" transmogrified into "Yes Prime Minister. It's worth a watch. |
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11 Mar 12 - 07:27 PM (#3321480) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Jeri The problem is (and I know this is oversimplification), they've elevated 'stupid' to a virtue --for voters, not necessarily candidates. They label the belief that all parents should be able to send their kids to college as 'elitist', they tell people there's something wrong with making health care affordable to everyone, that taxes are unnecessary and evil, they invoke people's fear of differences so Obama STILL might be a Muslim, STILL might not really have been born in the US, and if he was born in Hawaii, that's STILL not in the US--and the list of things is nearly endless-- and they have SO pandered to stupid people because they LIKE sheep, and stupid people raise more stupid people because education is, after all, elitist, that this is where we are now. This is the grown-up generation of Jerry Springer-watching people who've jumped on whatever conspiracy theory fad is being reported by owned talking heads giving them the 'news', that people seldom think for themselves and actually question what they're being fed. So even the ones who might possibly be able to think have knee-jerk reactions and close ranks against the enemies of stupidity and falsehood. It isn't that difficult to see through lies, but you have to look, and the people who do are not the ones who are likely to believe it in the first place. |
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11 Mar 12 - 08:37 PM (#3321504) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: catspaw49 Let's take a look at the Mississippi voters shall we? We need to remember that everyone who votes is not on the same page and as we sit around passing lofty gas back and forth there are other people, sort of, who are not all as enthused. I tend to agree with James Carville. Lester Maddox once said that that what Georgia prisons really needed was better prisoners. Well, what the Republican party needs is better voters! I mean take a look at the assholes involved in the circus car circular firing squad they have for candidates and then consider who in the fuck would vote for them! What we need to remember though is just how much some of these people hate Barack Obama. Click here and then click videos at the top of the page. See the green house from March 9? Play that one.................... Spaw |
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11 Mar 12 - 08:41 PM (#3321508) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Bill D All thru history, people have used the process of "placing the dart, then drawing the bullseye where they want it" to defend positions. Any being that can comprehend 'logic' can also ignore it by substituting rhetoric, peer pressure, vested interests, superstition and plain old *fear* to help them make decisions. As Jeri says, they have to look for truth ... and then be willing to act on truths that they don't like. What ever happened to "The greatest good for the greatest number"? |
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11 Mar 12 - 08:47 PM (#3321510) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: catspaw49 Mill lived in the ozone and Bentham died. It was a valiant attempt but foredoomed to failure. Spaw |
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11 Mar 12 - 08:58 PM (#3321517) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: KHNic Mitt Romney lost out to Mc Cain, last election. Mc Cain lost out to Bush. The Republicans are now voting for a man who is not as good as the man who is not as good as Bush. Says it all. |
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11 Mar 12 - 09:14 PM (#3321521) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: GUEST,josepp What's interesting is that the Pub party is not sustainable in its current form. This single-issue/god-hates-liberals run party does not resonate with the average voter--even the ones who detest Obama. That's a huge problem. They may try to sneak Ron Paul in at the last moment and give him the nomination but that won't work even if they pull it off. The party itself has to change the way it thinks and does things--the individual candidates don't matter as they'll trumpet any party line to get the nomination, they don't care. But the current party line just isn't making it and has no relevance in the lives of the vast majority of Americans. The pub party is spending more than it's taking in and that is simply unsustainable. What I want to know is what is going to happen when it implodes which is inevitable. |
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11 Mar 12 - 09:30 PM (#3321526) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Bobert The Repubs have attacked JFK, women, anyone with an education, etc, etc... As we speak they are trying to find a new group to piss off... The are done in November and maybe forever... Bob |
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11 Mar 12 - 09:41 PM (#3321533) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Leadfingers From this side of the pond , its a bit scary ! Its bad enough here in UK where we DO have a decent percentage of the population who are Passport Holders and DO travel to other countries , even if its only to Spain for Sun , Fish and Chips and Roast Beef . But even here we have people who dont seem to be able to think for themselves - Look at the Blessed Maggie = Buy your Council house and you HAVE to become Right Wing !! What percentage of US Citizens now have passports ? and even worse , how many have never been outside their STATE ?? All I can say is God (IF he Exists) help you all |
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11 Mar 12 - 10:00 PM (#3321546) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Songwronger The right wing nutcases in America just made it illegal to protest. Somehow they forced Obama to sign the bill, the bastards. Just like they made him sign the bill that gives the military the authority to detain and kill me. The bastards. Hate those right-wing pricks. They made Obama keep the prison open at Guantanamo, over his objections, and now they're forcing him to start wars in Syria and Uganda, the bastards. They're making him spend billions for the election too, the bastards, because the country NEEDS him to keep Washington honest. |
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11 Mar 12 - 10:06 PM (#3321550) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: GUEST,josepp I don't read leftist shit, sorry. There just might be an agenda there. No more believable than the rightwing nutcases. |
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11 Mar 12 - 10:06 PM (#3321551) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: GUEST,999 Now ya know who the FEMA camps are for. Anyone who protests. |
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11 Mar 12 - 10:11 PM (#3321553) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: number 6 The lunatic right is evolving into the Taliban of the U.S. ....good luck in November guys ... whew. biLL |
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11 Mar 12 - 10:18 PM (#3321554) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: GUEST,999 Left, Right, Left, Right |
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11 Mar 12 - 10:26 PM (#3321557) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: number 6 good one 999 ... a lotta truth to it. biLL |
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11 Mar 12 - 10:37 PM (#3321564) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: GUEST,999 Put that together with Executive Orders for the past thirty or so years and America can be locked down tighter than a drum. HR 347 pertains to government buildings or property where the president may be. However, that could be a town or city or anything so designated by government. The SS (interesting initials) is part of HS and Executive Orders already 'on the books: ""A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry." Congress can still attempt to block "by passing legislation in conflict with it" refusing to fund or enforce the law. Even with that the President has the power of the Veto. Congress can attempt to override the veto but that requires a two-thirds majority. Only two executive orders have ever been overturned. Here are just a few Executive Orders that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen: EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports. EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media. EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals. EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms. EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision. EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions. EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons. EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft. EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations. EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities. EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis. EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President." |
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11 Mar 12 - 11:02 PM (#3321571) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: number 6 And what scares me is that we are living next door to the country that can enact these orders. We are in the same situation as Holland in the late 1930's. biLL |
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12 Mar 12 - 01:45 AM (#3321594) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Ebbie shoot piffle snort bollocks Those are key words. |
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12 Mar 12 - 02:05 AM (#3321599) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Joe Offer Well, I wouldn't put too much faith in that list of executive orders. If you Google them, you will find hundreds of copies of this list, mostly at right-wing scare sites. If you look a little deeper into what these executive orders actually are, they are generally just boring documents about carrying out the day-to-day functions of government. This statement is particularly misleading: These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen. According to the numbering system for executive orders, it appears these executive orders were issued by John F. Kennedy in 1962, which means they were signed by the President and put into effect then. Executive Order 10990, for example, was signed by President Kennedy in 1962, and has to do with worker safety. Several of the orders mentioned have to do with disaster preparation, but they don't sound all that ominous when you take the time to read them. Not to worry. -Joe- |
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12 Mar 12 - 12:18 PM (#3321769) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: GUEST,josepp Whether left or right, they're full of conspiracy theorists and therefore not to be given the time of day. It's amazing the numbers of people I know who believe in chem trails. But the lunatic fringe knows one thing perfectly well: repeat a lie enough times and people will accept it as truth. I still encounter people who think Obama's going to send his secret police into our homes to confiscate all our guns and then throw us into the secret camps that have been mothballed since the 40s or 50s or 60s--depending on which nutcase whose blatherings you happen to be listening to. I got sick of the Executive Order bs after the nutcases told me that Clinton was going to use them if he got elected, and then it became if he get re-elected, then it became Bush I after he dared to use the phrase "New World Order" during a speech. What was funny is that they were silent when Bush II made Blackwater into the very secret police force they warned us about--but then the Bush administration had a knack for ruining people they didn't like so all the brave conspiracy nuts shut right the fuck up until Obama became president and it was safe to ooze out of the woodwork and start warning us all about what a Hitlerian dictator he is which only proves he isn't or they'd be shutting the fuck up like they did under the real dictator that preceded him. Enough already, people. |
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12 Mar 12 - 12:21 PM (#3321771) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge Interestingly, in the home of the brave and land of the free - and free speech - what was planned to be Doonesbury's cartoon for tomorrow has been dropped by a number of US syndicators, and publicly attacked by Rick Perry. |
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12 Mar 12 - 01:22 PM (#3321793) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: catspaw49 Many of the ones who pulled it from their comic section are running it on their editorial pages. GT is doing a full campaign in the best traditions of "Doonesbury." If you don't get a paper anymore, bookmark the site. HERE is the site with the strip in question. Spaw |
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12 Mar 12 - 01:27 PM (#3321797) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Matthew Edwards The race to find a candidate who isn't Mitt Romney is being clearly being won by Mitt Romney himself. |
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12 Mar 12 - 01:42 PM (#3321804) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Bobert Thanks, Spawz... As for the Repubs??? I think they got sucked into their own hot-air turbine and are now hopelessly mired in bad karma... I'm sure they are "banking" on Super PAC $$$ to save them from themselves come November and though that is a concern if that doesn't happen they have more than likely David Carradine'd themselves... B~ |
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12 Mar 12 - 01:54 PM (#3321810) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Stu Is there actually a left of centre political movement of any size at all in the US? By UK and European standards Obama is still a solid right-winger, and I was wondering if any sort of effective left is left, or had they all been scared off by the right? |
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12 Mar 12 - 02:20 PM (#3321817) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Q (Frank Staplin) What is unbelievable to me is the rise of voters and candidates (Santorum) who would destroy our secular system with separation of church and state. The lunatic left also is alive and well, e. g., the posts by Songwronger and 999. |
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12 Mar 12 - 02:38 PM (#3321829) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: gnu I can't seem to get that first link Spaw posted. I get to the front page of HBO and then I get lost. Can someone tell me where to go? |
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12 Mar 12 - 02:45 PM (#3321839) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Q (Frank Staplin) gnu, I get as far as the Bill Maher page (HBO.com), but I don't know where to go from there. |
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12 Mar 12 - 03:03 PM (#3321859) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: catspaw49 Found it on YouTube Mississippi voters....HERE IT IS ON YOU TUBE Spaw |
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12 Mar 12 - 03:33 PM (#3321874) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Amos If that's the part of the South that will rise again, we better start building a giant vulva... |
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12 Mar 12 - 04:17 PM (#3321892) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: number 6 Back a few years back my wife and took a road trip down through Mississippi on Highway 61 .... Greenville, Vicksburg, Natchez ... met some wonderful people along the way ... black and white. That video clip does some injustice to the people of Mississippi. biLL |
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12 Mar 12 - 04:27 PM (#3321894) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: gnu I am sure it does, sIx, but it's still scarey. Especially the racism... disgusting. |
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12 Mar 12 - 05:02 PM (#3321909) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: number 6 Racism is disgusting and intolerable, but it isn't just found in the South gnu. The song Rednecks by Randy Newman comes mind regarding this. Look them up if you wish. Anyway the whole US lunatic left/right is very concerning. biLL |
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12 Mar 12 - 05:26 PM (#3321913) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: McGrath of Harlow "If the federal government were run more like the government here in Mississippi the whole country would be a lot better off" - Mitt Romney. I suppose it might be even more frightening to imagine a man who could say that being elected president, if you thought he actually believed it. On the other hand a president so deeply corrupted he could say something like that without believing it is a pretty terrifying thought. The quote comes from this sobering piece in today's Guardian which reminds us that it really is possible that today's strange Republicans could still win - Obama is still in a hole. It may yet be deeper than his Republican rivals' |
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12 Mar 12 - 05:40 PM (#3321918) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: catspaw49 biLL.....I lived in the south for quite awhile and although I can assure you that the clip is representative in some cases, it is certainly not in all. Additionally, that type of attitude is prevalent all over the country with people who don't realize that they should be bonded together with others because of poverty and not with the GOP. Why do they vote GOP? Not just in Mississippi but in Ohio, Idaho, Indiana, New Mexico, New York and almost everywhere in the USA...........Why? I think the one guy made the point best......For reasons that most of us can't fathom, they believe that they will somehow get a better shake from the Republicans. Ain't worked for 'em so far....."but it might/could!" Spaw |
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12 Mar 12 - 06:01 PM (#3321923) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge http://front.moveon.org/the-last-honest-republican/ |
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12 Mar 12 - 06:15 PM (#3321925) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: GUEST,999 "On 30 January 1933 Adolf Hitler legally became chancellor of Germany. Although he initially headed a coalition government, he quickly eliminated his non-Nazi partners and ruled as the sole dictator. The Nazi regime restored economic prosperity and ended mass unemployment using heavy military spending while suppressing labor unions and strikes. The return of prosperity gave the regime enormous popularity and made Hitler's rule mostly unchallenged, despite a growing resistance that culminated in the failed 20 July plot in 1944. The Gestapo (secret state police) under Heinrich Himmler destroyed the liberal, socialist, and communist opposition and persecuted the Jews. The party took control of the courts, local government, and all civic organizations except the Protestant and Catholic churches.[3]" That is not about Jews or the Holocaust. Any of the rest sound familiar? |
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12 Mar 12 - 06:43 PM (#3321939) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: GUEST,999 Peter Horton put together the following 25 questions worth 4 points each. 'How to recognize a civilized country.' Thought a few of you would find them interesting. 1. The military-industrial complex plays no role in government. 2. Religion plays a very small role in society, not forbidden, but not compulsory. 3. Scientists, teachers, nurses, artists, are all valued more than sports people and celebrities. 4. Speech is free and the media varied. 5. There are few if any guns. 6. The environment is cared for. 7. The government does not execute its people. 8. Women have full social and economic equality with men. 9. Minorities are not persecuted. 10. Sexuality is not a criterion for human rights. 11. Education of children is universal, free and secular. 12. Other species are respected, valued and protected. 13. Everyone secretly votes, every vote is openly counted independent of government. 14. Regulation protects people from giant corporations. 15. Other countries are not invaded, war isn't glorified. 16. Wealth is not a criterion for political success, or social worth. 17. Art and heritage are valued; literature, film and television increase in quality over time. 18. Natural disasters bring massive state support for the hurt and homeless and helpless. 19. The old, the sick, the disabled, are cared for. 20. The government tells the truth. 21. Public enterprise is as valued as private enterprise. 22. The courts and police are independent of politicians. 23. Unions flourish 24. The balance between life at work and life at home is a healthy one. 25. Aspirations are achievable by all. I recognize some of you will say piffle. That's life. |
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12 Mar 12 - 07:37 PM (#3321954) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge I mark the USA at 2 out of 50 for that. |
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12 Mar 12 - 10:36 PM (#3322004) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: John P We have two things going for us. One is that the Tea Party showed how bad they are at governing, and lots of people got turned off by them. The other is that the Republicans have very openly declared war on women. They are losing Republican women over that one, except for the theocrats. Women are more than half of our voters. |
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12 Mar 12 - 11:56 PM (#3322038) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Ebbie Question: What country would score more? |
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13 Mar 12 - 01:12 AM (#3322052) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge I mark the UK at 20 |
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13 Mar 12 - 01:14 AM (#3322053) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge By the way, what do people think about Santorum's views on the governance of Mississipi - the poorest state in the union and with death rates for children on about a par with Botswana? If the rest of the USA was like that how many more children would die? |
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13 Mar 12 - 02:26 AM (#3322071) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Ebbie 2. Religion plays a very small role in society, not forbidden, but not compulsory. UK 4. Speech is free and the media varied. US/UK 5. There are few if any guns.UK 7. The government does not execute its people. UK 11. Education of children is universal, free and secular. US/UK 12. Other species are respected, valued and protected.US 13. Everyone secretly votes, every vote is openly counted independent of government. US/UK 18. Natural disasters bring massive state support for the hurt and homeless and helpless. US 19. The old, the sick, the disabled, are cared for. US 24. The balance between life at work and life at home is a healthy one.US/UK My guess is that I don't know much more about the UK than you do about the US. |
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13 Mar 12 - 04:36 AM (#3322099) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: saulgoldie 999, I like that list. It is truly idealistic. And that is most likely where it will stay. I think the key is honest media. I believe that if people were properly informed that they would make the right decisions about everything else. I do not think we have anything like honest media, and because of the corporate nature and fear-baiting it won't be happening any time soon. But all the points are important. In fact, I'm going to give this list "legs" with the folks I know and with my elected officials. Thanks! Saul |
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13 Mar 12 - 05:02 AM (#3322102) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge Ebbie. 4. US fail. While there are some limited left of centre print media voices, USTV is mostly very right wing. UK also fails but not so badly. The worst villain of the piece in both cases is Rupert Murdoch. 11. US fail. Despite bussing from long back, the free education in less favoured areas is abysmal and condemns children to failure. US university is a long way from free. UK also fails but not so badly. Both have private schools for the wealthy that create vast advantage based on wealth (and UK builds religion into schools too) 12. US fail. There is lip service to preserving the gene pool and some good records (eg the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone, something the UK has not yet achieved in Scotland, and reasonably successful management of bison) the trend over the recent-ish past has been to demolish environmental protection with Sarah Palin a leading troglodyte in this respect. UK does fairly well largely thanks to EU regulation (and for example protects bats far more vigorously) but moves are afoot in the further right parts of our illegitimate government to water down environment and species protection. Bees are a disaster area for both. 13. Both fail. The US vote counting is clearly flawed - eg the Bush election, ballot stuffing is widely suspected, and electronic voting is under considerable and possibly justified criticism. UK vote counting is almost certainly wholly honest, but the Electoral Commission is under government control. 18. US fail. Remember New Orleans? UK - not all that bad. 19. US fail. Only a limited proportion of the old get satisfactory (important word) funding support and as far as I know there is no state provision of homes for the elderly. UK marginally better although the state old age pension is inadequate and the limited range of state run elderly homes largely abysmal. 24. Both total fail. US is a total disaster for worker protection so there is in fact no protection from excessive management demands. UK is heading down the path of zero-hour contracts. At a higher level both demand 16 hour working hour days from, say, lawyers and the "lunch is for wimps" culture is still there. The UK has the longest working week and least protection from excessive working hours in Europe and the US is worse. |
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13 Mar 12 - 09:03 AM (#3322203) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: GUEST,Shimrod "For reasons that most of us can't fathom, they believe that they will somehow get a better shake from the Republicans." In the UK I believe that people vote for the Tories (i.e. the Right Wing Conservative Party) because they believe that that party is more likely to 'punish' those people who are perceived to be of a 'lower social status' than them. Pick a random person off the street and attempt to discuss politics with him/her and you will probably get a diatribe about "benefits cheats" and "social security scroungers" or, occasionally, "immigrants who are stealing our jobs/country". Of course, a lot of this rhetoric comes from the right wing press, but those unscrupulous bastards know exactly which 'buttons' to press! I'm amazed that there has been so much "banker bashing" lately (things must be much, much worse than we have been told!). The average 'benefits cheats' obsessive is usually perfectly content to allow the 'high ups' get away with anything they like! |
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13 Mar 12 - 10:53 AM (#3322266) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge There is much in that, Shimmers. |
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13 Mar 12 - 11:00 AM (#3322272) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Bill D a comment on: "That video clip does some injustice to the people of Mississippi." The point of that clip is that it wasn't hard to find those images and opinions in Mississippi!. There are, of course, many who do NOT think that way or use religion & prejudice to guide their every decision....but in Mississippi, as in many other parts of the South, moderates & liberals do not say too much openly! Even in areas where the poverty & ignorance are not so noticable, there is a clear undercurrent of those basic attitudes. Many of those who fought civil rights tooth & nail are still alive & kicking, and their children and grandchildren were often raised to hate...not just dislike....hate... 'liberals' and racial minorities. In this day of mass media, many southerners have learned to temper their public speech & writings, replacing overt racism & threats with coded language. If you go to the South and visit with 'average' people about neutral stuff, like food & cars & hunting & kids & music...etc., you will find good, friendly, helpful, interesting folk. But unless you KNOW to whom you are speaking, it is wise to be careful about bringing up politics and race and The Civil War.... and Obama. Moderate to liberal folks can express themselves IN the voting booth, but many will not admit to their neighbors who they voted for. It will take many years for this basic attitude to change much. |
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13 Mar 12 - 05:23 PM (#3322422) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Q (Frank Staplin) Separate in intimate social relationships, but accepted in business and government, by no means is confined to the southern states; the attitude is common in Canada as well as the States, and by many is extended to the First Nations peoples. Bill D is close to the mark; Southern cities are gaining Black administrative and service (police, fire, civil servant) personnel and there is cooperation, but close interpersonal relationships are the exception. Religion is a factor, varied across the South but in central Georgia Catholics are mostly socially separate from Protestants, but both would support candidates who would bring more religion into government- hence the attraction of Santorum, who is avowedly against the separation of church and state. Unspoken predjudice with regard to both race and religion in close relationships is a fact of life in North America (as it is in many parts of the world); it is closer to the surface in the South, but is not confined to that region. |
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13 Mar 12 - 07:11 PM (#3322446) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge I repeat: Mississipi - the poorest state in the union and with death rates for children on about a par with Botswana. And Santorum wants the rest of the USA to be like that. |
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13 Mar 12 - 11:00 PM (#3322537) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: JohnInKansas Possibly the greatest problem with our US political system is the violation of the one thing (maybe the only thing) that Plato got right in The Republic. He said something to the effect that "governing should not be easy or fun or profitable." Those who govern should have to do it because they believe it's their responsibility to do so and not for their own pleasure and profit. We've pretty much blown that one. John |
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13 Mar 12 - 11:36 PM (#3322550) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Ebbie But, see, Richard. I don't agree with you. I think your brush is both too wide and too narrow. 4. Speech is free and the media varied US fail. While there are some limited left of centre print media voices, USTV is mostly very right wing. UK also fails but not so badly. The worst villain of the piece in both cases is Rupert Murdoch. The question is: Is speech free and the media varied? I say it is. In the US, I don't know anyone who is afraid to speak his/her mind. That, of course, does not extend to all scenarios. For instance, if you object to an individual's being arrested, if you are smart you know that it is not a good time to mouth off to the cops. Is media varied? Yes. There may be a preponderance of non-liberal reporting or venues (although the conservative doesn't see it that way) but I contend that the liberal is NOT always right- and I count myself as liberal -' as I once wrote in a song: "The good man's not always right nor the bad one always wrong." More to the point, the conservative, per se, is not automatically bad. 11. . Education of children is universal, free and secular.US fail. Despite bussing from long back, the free education in less favoured areas is abysmal and condemns children to failure. That ain't necessarily so. That is a broad and biased and uninformed opinion. . US university is a long way from free. You said, "children." UK also fails but not so badly. Both have private schools for the wealthy that create vast advantage based on wealth (and UK builds religion into schools too)In the US too, many 'wealthy private schools' are religious schools. One has the option of not sending one's children to them. And that is freedom.. 12. Other species are respected, valued and protected. I don't agree with you on this at all. Besides which I think that presenting Palin as an exemplar of such thinking is silly. US fail. There is lip service to preserving the gene pool and some good records (eg the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone, something the UK has not yet achieved in Scotland, and reasonably successful management of bison) the trend over the recent-ish past has been to demolish environmental protection with Sarah Palin a leading troglodyte in this respect. UK does fairly well largely thanks to EU regulation (and for example protects bats far more vigorously) but moves are afoot in the further right parts of our illegitimate government to water down environment and species protection. Bees are a disaster area for both. 13.3. Everyone secretly votes, every vote is openly counted independent of government. I have no doubt but that certain regions in the US have tainted elections- but see, I think that because I have no experience with it. My experience is quite different; I fail to see why you think you know better. Both fail. The US vote counting is clearly flawed - eg the Bush election, ballot stuffing is widely suspected, and electronic voting is under considerable and possibly justified criticism. UK vote counting is almost certainly wholly honest, but the Electoral Commission is under government control. 18.. Natural disasters bring massive state support for the hurt and homeless and helpless. This contention is silly. New Orleans was noteworthy because it failed so spectacularly. US fail. Remember New Orleans? UK - not all that bad. 19.The old, the sick, the disabled, are cared for. Frankly,my dear,you don't know what you are talking about. US fail. Only a limited proportion of the old get satisfactory (important word) funding support and as far as I know there is no state provision of homes for the elderly. UK marginally better although the state old age pension is inadequate and the limited range of state run elderly homes largely abysmal. 24.The balance between life at work and life at home is a healthy one. Sheesh. Both total fail. US is a total disaster for worker protection so there is in fact no protection from excessive management demands. UK is heading down the path of zero-hour contracts. At a higher level both demand 16 hour working hour days from, say, lawyers and the "lunch is for wimps" culture is still there. The UK has the longest working week and least protection from excessive working hours in Europe and the US is worse. |
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14 Mar 12 - 04:25 AM (#3322594) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge The US government largely (not completely) observes the constitutional requirement not to restrain freedom of speech. But the instances of people being discriminated against for legitimate freedom of expression are too many to ignore. Remember, for example, the school bus driver who flipped the Shrub the bird? There is virtually no effective media voice in the US even for what the US calls left wing (which is right wing by most other countries' standards). There may be some good state schools in poor areas of the US - but the general picture is reportedly as I have stated. It is, quite simply, a fact what profit hunting is doing to the US environment, and the EPA is being filleted and disempowered. The US discrepancies between exit polls and announced results are too large to be brushed aside. Even here on the Mudcat we read of the experiences of those rendered homeless by vast fires - and who apparently receive no state help. US elderly care is almost wholly available only on payment. Mostly to not for profit organisations, but still for payment. US healthcare is the world's leading model of getting only what you pay for. Here's some hands-on experience of US disability care http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ouch/2011/08/laurence_clark_compares_uk_and.html |
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14 Mar 12 - 11:53 AM (#3322791) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Ebbie "US elderly care is almost wholly available only on payment." Perhaps I misunderstood you. Are you saying that in the US, elderly care is not 'free', as in pre-paid? As you know, we have a different system here from what you have in the UK. I hope one day that we will have single-payer health care but we don't have it as yet. We do have Medicare for all, Medicaid that is income-based, and General Welfare for the indigent. |
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14 Mar 12 - 02:28 PM (#3322861) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Q (Frank Staplin) This thread has left the tracks, as the left loonies add their remarks. Child mortality has nothing to do with the subject. But these figures on the net: Deaths/100,000, age to 14 years Mississippi- 29 Massachusetts- 11 U. S. -18 Botswana- 47.7/ 1000, to age 5. or 4770/100,000 The figure would be higher if extended to age 14. Mississippi worse than Botswana? |
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14 Mar 12 - 07:46 PM (#3322960) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge You are proud that the child death rate in Mississippi is comparable to if not higher than Botswana? And you want to extend the Mississippi rate to the whole of the USA? See what I mean about lunatic right? |
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14 Mar 12 - 08:45 PM (#3322984) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: catspaw49 I guess reading for accuracy is more difficult if you have to look far away down your nose............... Spaw |
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15 Mar 12 - 04:56 AM (#3323082) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Richard Bridge Mississippi 2011 infant death rate 9.6 per thousand, down from 10.0 the previous year. See here: http://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/4619.pdf Botswana 11.14 see here: http://www.indexmundi.com/botswana/infant_mortality_rate.html |
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15 Mar 12 - 01:38 PM (#3323219) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: frogprince Try it this way: Black residents of Mississippi, 2010, 13.8 infant deaths/1000. Botswana, a predominently black country, 11.76/1000, with estimate for 2011 of 10.51/1000. |
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15 Mar 12 - 05:10 PM (#3323312) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: Greg F. That video clip does some injustice to the people of Mississippi. But not much. And then there's Alabama.... |
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15 Mar 12 - 09:44 PM (#3323408) Subject: RE: BS: The US lunatic right From: number 6 rednecks biLL |