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07 Apr 12 - 09:34 AM (#3334906) Subject: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Will Fly Just seen the Oxford/Cambridge boat race stopped and re-started becase of a protester swimming under the blades... 3 or 4 minutes to a restart. (2.33pm BST) |
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07 Apr 12 - 09:52 AM (#3334912) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonnie Shaljean What were they protesting? |
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07 Apr 12 - 09:57 AM (#3334918) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Will Fly No idea yet - the police launch carried him away - with a smile on his face. 2.56 - just about to re-start... |
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07 Apr 12 - 10:04 AM (#3334920) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Will Fly Now there's been a clash of oars - Oxford clashed and lost an oar through their own fault. Cambridge have it in the bag and have just won. Weird... |
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07 Apr 12 - 10:11 AM (#3334922) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Will Fly Now the Oxford lead oarsman has collapsed and has been taken off to hospital. I haven't seen a boat race on the TV in over twenty years - my other half had switched it on - and now I've seen the oddest one for a long time. Ah well, back to the guitar... |
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07 Apr 12 - 11:53 AM (#3334949) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST Stupid man - deserved to lose his head under the oars. |
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07 Apr 12 - 12:04 PM (#3334956) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Leadfingers What ever he was Protesting about , it seems a Bloody Silly thing to do !! |
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07 Apr 12 - 12:15 PM (#3334959) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Eliza Swimming in the Thames is indeed silly. It's a lot cleaner than it was fifty years ago, but there are still loads of dodgy bacteria in the water! Didn't David Walliams do a charity swim of its whole length and have to go to hospital with a nasty bug after he swallowed some water? |
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07 Apr 12 - 01:14 PM (#3334984) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: John MacKenzie When I lived on a boat moored above Kingston upon Thames, I used to swim in the Thames regularly. |
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07 Apr 12 - 01:24 PM (#3334992) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Hoookey Wole The Boat Races first ever streaker ???? [ If he was only wearing Speedos, they near enough count as skinny dipping ] |
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07 Apr 12 - 01:26 PM (#3334993) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,petecockermouth i have never known why anyone but a tiny handful of sporty toffs would have the remotest interest in the boat race. just one of those things that irritatingly come round once a year - some thief holding up a red box on budget day: ladies day at ascot races; random anniversaries of shameful wars; pictures of kids getting exam results - at least they aren't still wheeling out the queen mother to wave at a few over dressed soldiers on her birthdays - or are they? anyway, whatever the bloke was protesting about - well done. |
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07 Apr 12 - 01:31 PM (#3334996) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: EBarnacle Apparently, there is some interest. It's broadcast to several continents. |
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07 Apr 12 - 01:40 PM (#3335005) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: John MacKenzie Aye, it's because of the attraction of archaic class based entertainment. As most elite events have been outlawed by the PC brigade, it's all they have to watch now. |
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07 Apr 12 - 01:41 PM (#3335007) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: catspaw49 Yeah.......It was on MSNBC awhle ago under the category, "Who could possibly give a shit." Spaw |
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07 Apr 12 - 02:48 PM (#3335040) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs Yes, the rowers in the boat race are top class. Sorry they are not tatooed miners! |
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07 Apr 12 - 03:13 PM (#3335050) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Raggytash Recently a good number of the crew members have come from American and other nationalities, thus can hardly be construed as class based....can it? |
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07 Apr 12 - 03:19 PM (#3335056) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: John MacKenzie Aye, but they're rich Americans, so the elitist card can be employed ;) |
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07 Apr 12 - 04:36 PM (#3335082) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Greg B There's not a few "elite" schools who'll offer a member of the working class a full scholarship if they can turn to an oar particularly well. Here in the US, becoming a rower seems to be more of a question of whether one lives in a region where the sport has traction. (The running joke hereabouts when they first started the swimming 'Round Manhattan Race' was "Last one to dissolve, wins.") |
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07 Apr 12 - 05:14 PM (#3335102) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Peter K (Fionn) The swimmer is rumoured to describe himself as a protester against elitism. |
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07 Apr 12 - 05:42 PM (#3335118) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST The swimmer is rumoured to describe himself as a protester against elitism. Well he obviously has no regard for the safety of the all the rowers, to say nothing of the people on all the other vessels involved. He is nothing but an elite wanker!!! |
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07 Apr 12 - 05:50 PM (#3335122) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Well maybe , he's got something. I can't see people getting as annoyed about this as they were when the George Davis is Innocent group disrupted the Test Match. I don't think many people really CARE about rowing - not like they do about Football, Cricket and Britains Strictly Got Talent on Ice. |
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07 Apr 12 - 05:50 PM (#3335125) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Hookey Wole This archaic elite sporting event would be far more enjoyable as a public participatory celebration and television spectacular if the banks of the Thames were lined with hundreds of redundant local authority education staff armed with high velocity paint guns. |
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07 Apr 12 - 06:14 PM (#3335137) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Hookey Wole balls... I obviously meant paint ball guns. |
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07 Apr 12 - 10:31 PM (#3335217) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: catspaw49 |
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08 Apr 12 - 03:54 AM (#3335257) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Dave Hanson and the right wing hooray tossers out to defend it all. Dave H |
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08 Apr 12 - 05:10 AM (#3335273) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: bubblyrat Well ,this right wing hooray tosser lives in Henley on Thames ,where people , many of them "working class" (whatever that is ) can be seen out on the river , enjoying the sport of rowing ,as they have been able to do for many years without having to have been educated at Oxford or Cambridge ,or indeed any "elitist" University . It is entirely possible ,in fact ,that many of them were , like me , born in a Victorian terraced house with no bathroom ,and an outside toilet, but who were able , nevertheless , to get through life without having a huge chip on their shoulders about "the rich" ,elitism , or the inherent unfairness of life in the Real World . I would like to add that I don't row myself,nor do I follow it or even attend the Henley Regatta that is on my doorstep ,and am currently subsisting on a small Naval pension,and "Pension Credit" and Housing Benefit ,from The State. But I don't see much to complain about ; there are more important things in life. God Save The Queen ! |
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08 Apr 12 - 05:32 AM (#3335277) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Any of the left wingers here prepared to give solid data as to the number of students who get to Oxford or Cambridge, solely by dint of being rich? As I understand it, the academic qualifications would suggest that only the most intelligent get in, whether rich or poor. So I suppose that the elitist force you are all objecting to is Mother Nature? Good luck with changing THAT!! Don T. |
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08 Apr 12 - 06:15 AM (#3335290) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: theleveller Whilst I agree that elitism does lead to tyranny and I have no objection to peaceful civil disobedience, I think this was a fruitless, thoughtless and rather pathetic protest that, quitefrankly, seems to smack of way to gain personal notoriety rather than achive any defined aim. Now, organised protest at the ludicrous and expensive jubilee celebrations will be a much more worthwhile demonstration against elitism. |
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08 Apr 12 - 06:34 AM (#3335295) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs I agree with that Leveller.....from sunny Malaga with the new Albion Band loud on my headphones! Bonzo |
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08 Apr 12 - 06:55 AM (#3335302) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll "Any of the left wingers here..." Come on Don!! While education has moved on from Richard Attenborough's 'The Guinea Pig' days, higher education is still very much a privilege in Britain; even if the need for an extra wage packet for some families wasn't still a major factor, crippling fees and the need for student loans have made sure of that, as well as a whole load of other factors. http://militantstudent.org/britain/239-government-provokes-fury-ucas-changes. http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/sep/29/british-universities-fail-poor-students I very nearly posted to the 'my favourite teacher' thread, our science teacher Mr Cobban of Speke Secondary Modern, (a typical factory-fodder factory) who told me a year before I left school, "the only thing you need to know when you leave here is how to tot up your wages at the end of the week" - with that statement he made me determined that it wasn't all I needed to know. Higher education is still very much the domain of the privileged in practice, if no longer in theory. Jim Carroll |
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08 Apr 12 - 07:20 AM (#3335306) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs Rubbish,students only start to repay loans if income £21k. You have a big chip on your shoulder Jim Carroll |
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08 Apr 12 - 07:32 AM (#3335309) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Eliza petecockermouth (and others) your post sounded rather jaundiced and bitter to me. It almost seems that ANYONE out enjoying traditional events comes under your general umbrella of the despicable and deplorable. Lighten up, please do! Can't we all enjoy ourselves in our various ways without incurring condemnation from the Correct Brigade? I'm not even middle class myself, my parents were workers and proud of it, but I enjoy the Boat Race, and all the other things that '...come round irritatingly once a year...) I like seeing the hats at Ascot and the 'toffs' (silly expression!) at different occasions. Why all this venom and hate spewing out? |
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08 Apr 12 - 07:53 AM (#3335314) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,petecockermouth is it a good thing that many students will never repay their loans because there no real jobs for young people anymore? phrases like 'usual lefty claptrap' make me smile (i am trying to give up getting angry) on every level the system we have is failing the vast majority of people in every country and has done for ever. the current version of capitalism is patently obscene and destructive-subjecting the world to work (or die) for the benefit of a few ultra rich predators. the stupidity is we let them do this to us and every time someone tries to question if this is the best way of doing things there are plenty of brain-dead establishment lackeys to point the finger and dismiss any more hopeful and imaginative ideas as 'the usual lefty claptrap.' sure, some protests (and protesters) may be naive and foolish but these are trivial incidents in comparison to greed,sectarianism,racism and war. (hello leveller -not seen your name much since the flood) |
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08 Apr 12 - 08:09 AM (#3335316) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Owen Woodson The Boat Race Elitist? I should cocoa. According to the news, the two teams had been practicing flat out for the previous seven months. Surely that would entail neglecting their studies? Well, it must do because you can't row a boat and read Immanuel Kant at the same time. Remember the days when left wing students were accused of neglecting their studies to demonstrate against racism, capitalism etc. What was the cry that used to go up from the tory press and the tory party? "Wasting taxpayers money". Alright for some it seems. |
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08 Apr 12 - 08:11 AM (#3335318) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll "You have a big chip on your shoulder Jim Carroll No I haven't - I'm proud to be a member of a class whose labours and skills provide the essentials of everyday living and without whom our society would grind to a halt tomorrow. The financial and practical burdens of higher education have been insurmounable barriers for virtually every family I have known throughout my life - even recognised by the term 'underprivileged' - education being one of the major privileges out of our reach. Having said which - not sure I find the unarguable 'privilege' a barrier towards my enjoyment of the Boat Race. I saw most of them live when I lived in West London and enjoyed the atmosphere there I do find your man's protest a little unfathomable - not that I'm against such actions - I feel my life would have been that much poorer without the efforts of Erica Rowe. Jim Carroll |
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08 Apr 12 - 08:19 AM (#3335320) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: John MacKenzie Apparently one of the UK Sunday papers is asking "Was this a race hate crime?" Now that's the best thing to come out of this trifling incident so far. |
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08 Apr 12 - 09:26 AM (#3335343) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Greg B The sport of rowing has contributed significantly to our understanding of the human cardiovascular system. There's some very interesting work done recently around age-predicted maximum heart rates that suggests that the old "220 - age" and similar formulas may not apply in the cases of well-trained athletes. Until now, they'd been thought of as pretty much as inevitable as death and taxes. Rowers work as hard and intensely as track and field athletes, but they do so sitting down. Where a runner might just fall down when they hit a certain point, the rower will probably work deeper into his cardiovascular limit, and find it sooner. In my own experience, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that can push my heart rate to the wall sooner, and allow me to hold it for longer, than the rowing machine in the gym. Even the stair-mill, which is second best, doesn't come close. So while the external trappings of the sport may be socio-economically "elitist" the athletes themselves ought not to be taken lightly at all. |
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08 Apr 12 - 09:34 AM (#3335346) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle I love the bit in The Ginger Man where Sebastian Dangerfield takes an axe to a blue blanket, to make cravat like rowing blue - and get a load of stuff on credit. |
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08 Apr 12 - 10:28 AM (#3335359) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle one of the best and cruellest vignette's English (Irish) mealy mouthed deference to wealth and class. |
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08 Apr 12 - 10:42 AM (#3335363) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,petecockermouth hi eliza- i do try to not be 'jaundiced and bitter'- and really have no problem with anyone who wants to splash about in boats (or swim!)at any level. (blood 'sport' is another matter mind you) i have nothing but admiration and pity for the poor souls who die in wars but do feel justified in feeling 'venom and hatred' to the men who so often send the young to die and kill. as long as we all continue to put our faith in religious rulers or vote for politicians who lack compassion and intelligence, and exploit us by urging us to hate each other, then our world is not going to improve much-despite the best efforts of many millions of people with generosity of spirit. peace and love, pete |
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08 Apr 12 - 10:58 AM (#3335365) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll Thread drift coming on. Donleavy was a neighbour in Dublin to Brendan Behan while he was working on 'The Beastly Beatitudes of Balthazar B'. He went out, leaving the manuscript on the table, open at a page with heavy crossings-out. He returned to find the French windows had been forced, but when he checked, the only evidence he could find of the intruder was a bottle of whisky missing from the sideboard and a scrawled note across the manuscript saying "leave it in". "i have nothing but admiration and pity...." Amen to that Peter. Jim Carroll |
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08 Apr 12 - 11:08 AM (#3335370) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: bubblyrat Do they , in fact , have capital letters in Cockermouth , or are they in some way proscribed in that locality ?? |
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08 Apr 12 - 11:18 AM (#3335371) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,petecockermouth cockermouth - a town as delightful as it sounds, except when we are 6 feet deep in flood water. the lack of capitals is just a lazy affectation of mine. as an ex-english teacher i can feel as angry as any right thinking person about the misuse of apostrophe's but don't like to be told what to do otherwise and try to make up my own rules as far as possible. is this what you folk on this site call thread drift? good-i am all for not sticking to the point. |
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08 Apr 12 - 01:44 PM (#3335409) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Tunesmith Name five great black working-class rowers... Surely, rowing is a white, middle-class sport, and, with that in mind, it really shouldn't be taken seriously. |
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08 Apr 12 - 01:45 PM (#3335410) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: theleveller "(hello leveller -not seen your name much since the flood)" Hi Peter. Delightful to hear your dulcet tones again - glad your flood experiences haven't dampened your political ardour (as if!). Personlly, I've come to the conclusion that the only answer to elitism is anarchism. The more you delve into it, the more sense it makes (well, some of it). Regardless of their background, what I do respect about the boat race teams is the huge amount of commitment and physical pain that it takes to reach that standard of fitness (been there - didn't get close - got the fucked-up joints) "......from sunny Malaga with the new Albion Band loud on my headphones! Bonzo" Ah, I love Malaga - my parents used to go there for a couple of monthe each winter because it was cheaper than staying in England. Are there still the litle back-street bars where they chalk the tab on the wooden bar in front of you? Anyway, I've just finished a nice chilled bottle of Morrison's Fino with a delightful lunch with my kids, son's girlfriend and my mother-in-law whose been telling me of her disdain for the Windsors following her war-time experiences of being bombed out and having to listen to their "we're all in this together" shit (some things neverchange!). Still rancours even though she's now in her 80s. |
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08 Apr 12 - 01:48 PM (#3335414) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: theleveller Apologies for spelling - must have been the bottle of Argentine Merlot! |
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08 Apr 12 - 02:06 PM (#3335426) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Hookey Wole .. anyway, it's the 21st Century...... If these elite privileged bright young toffs are getting such a fine edumacation.. how come they aint got the sense to use outboard motors !!!????? |
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08 Apr 12 - 02:17 PM (#3335430) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""While education has moved on from Richard Attenborough's 'The Guinea Pig' days, higher education is still very much a privilege in Britain; even if the need for an extra wage packet for some families wasn't still a major factor, crippling fees and the need for student loans have made sure of that, as well as a whole load of other factors."" Perhaps my know-it-all friend, you would care to explain that to my son, because his first with honours in fine art has led him to believe that even the son of a man working as a school caretaker for £12000 per annum, can make it to a good university. He'll be gutted when you tell him he must have had a rich dad because he'll know it couldn't be me. Don T. |
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08 Apr 12 - 02:27 PM (#3335434) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Bitterness is rather like swallowing poison and expecting somebody else to die. Don T. |
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08 Apr 12 - 02:41 PM (#3335439) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: John MacKenzie Don, my son has a Phd, and is a scientist in the USA. His success has bugger all to do with me, or my bank balance. It also doesn't explain why we televise a minority sport like this every year, when there are other sports or pastimes which are indulged in by many more people, that don't make the goggle box |
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08 Apr 12 - 02:48 PM (#3335442) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll Don't start putting words in my mouth - my equally know-it-all friend. I did not mention "rich" - I was referring to areas like the one I grew up in where the schools were and are little more than under-subsidised short-staffed slums where the kids had, and still have neither the opportunity nor the incentive to make anything of their lives and were the unemployment figures are so high (and always have been) that even if they had either, their parents could not do without their wages if they do happen on a job - their own fault for having kids in the first place, I suppose. What world do you live in Don? Not the one I grew up in where members of my family are still trying to bring their kids up as best they can in shit circumstances. I suggest you take a peep at what governments of various hues have done to to our education system. If it's not like that were you are, have a look at where it's exactly like that. Funny - you never struck me as smug Jim Carroll |
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08 Apr 12 - 02:50 PM (#3335443) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Hookey Wole "He'll be gutted when you tell him he must have had a rich dad because he'll know it couldn't be me." Too right you should be proud of your boy, as he should be indebted to you for providing a family environment and upbringing that values the power of education and personal aspirations for self advancement. I too am a product of council estate factory fodder family and grammar school education. But sadly these days a new generation of lower income sink estate families have lost the necessary self esteem and motivation to persuade their kids to rise up via good education. Depriving them of the will to avail themselves of any remaining economically eroded local social & cultural opportunities |
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08 Apr 12 - 02:52 PM (#3335444) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs That's a good one DT! |
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08 Apr 12 - 02:55 PM (#3335445) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Megan L Well one good thing came out of this thread it sparked a memory so i went and looked up Major Arthur Godfrey Peuchen. Now his is an interesting rowing tale. |
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08 Apr 12 - 03:05 PM (#3335450) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: theleveller Interesting comments about elitism in education. My son is in his final year of a History and Politics Degree. Without help from us and his grandma, it wouldn't have been possible. His student loan covered his tuition fees (pre increase) and only some of his living expenses. Between ma-in-law and us, it has cost around £8000 a year to keep him at uni. He wants to do a law conversion degree but at £16,000 it's impossible. When our daughter wants to go to uni I'll be 69 so won't be able to help financially, plus she'll be liable for the increased tuition fees (unless they'be been reduced by then). Of course tertiary education is elitist - and, as this divisive government has intended, is becoming more so. |
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08 Apr 12 - 03:46 PM (#3335455) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll And from the Tory press Jim Carroll http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5479729/Working-class-children-let-down-by-education-system.html |
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08 Apr 12 - 03:50 PM (#3335456) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: KHNic Would love to do a physics degree. Can't afford it. Ergo, no physics degree. Gone are the days of academic pursuit for academic reasons. |
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08 Apr 12 - 04:00 PM (#3335459) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: theleveller And if you want to do a degree as a mature student.....forget it unless you're wealthy. |
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08 Apr 12 - 04:12 PM (#3335464) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,petecockermouth pointless 'sports' part 2 - basketball. you may as well have a contest where giants take turns to put things on high shelves, again and again. still, at least there appears to be not much elitism - tall folk can come from any class. mind you,i read recently that in the first world war officers ('gentlemen') were on average 4 (or was it 5) inches taller than the other ranks. (and the generals and politicians who ordered the slaughter about 50 years older?) |
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08 Apr 12 - 04:15 PM (#3335465) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle yeh Btitain's got talent - and by and large it never gets a break. |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:50 AM (#3335593) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs I wonder where hockey stands in the sport for all chart? It's pretty big in India, so it must be popular in the UK! |
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09 Apr 12 - 07:38 AM (#3335642) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: John MacKenzie Shinty, hurling, camogie, lacrosse |
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09 Apr 12 - 09:04 AM (#3335677) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Roger the Skiffler The only comment I'd make is he's against elitism but is a graduate from LSE which considers itself an elite University (academically, if not socially). RtS |
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09 Apr 12 - 09:36 AM (#3335683) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""It also doesn't explain why we televise a minority sport like this every year, when there are other sports or pastimes which are indulged in by many more people, that don't make the goggle box"" Perhaps because it's a unique event which happens nowhere else and only once a year John. I could even put up with having my favourite telly programs pushed aside for bloody football, if it only happened once a year. Don T. |
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09 Apr 12 - 10:13 AM (#3335700) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""What world do you live in Don? Not the one I grew up in where members of my family are still trying to bring their kids up as best they can in shit circumstances. I suggest you take a peep at what governments of various hues have done to to our education system."" I'm just about sick to death of people who don't even live in this country pissing and moaning and making assumptions on little or no knowledge. I was brought up in North Kensington, which if you knew anything about London, was among the roughest areas you could find. I lost over a year of primary schooling due to an eye operation and subsequent treatment, and by hard work (and a lot of help from one wonderful teacher) I won a scholarship to a top grammar school. Any one of my class mates could have done the same, given the will to do it, and should have found it easier than I did. Only one did that. I made it to college and wound up as an analytical chemist specialising in brewing, rising to assistant chief chemist at Goldwells, who made bottled Snowball among other products. I changed track when I realised that I was earning half as much as the men in the factory who took orders from me. I spent the rest of my working life doing whatever was necessary to raise a family, and I worked continuously from 1957 to 2006, never receiving one penny in benefits or dole, though, apart from a brief spell as a hackney driver I never earned more than fifteen thousand in any year. Both my kids went to pretty rough schools, but worked hard and made it, one to University and the other to nursing college. My daughter, a grade E nurse is currently doing a nursing degree course alongside of working and bringing up three kids on her own. Smug? You are the chip on shoulder merchant who fits that mould, with your hatred of this country plain to see, but whatever and wherever you are, you owe any success you have to the education you got here. Anybody with the will and the wit, combined with a decent work ethic, can get to university. I happen to believe that we had the world's best education system back in the fifties and early sixties, before some faux socialist trendies decided to screw it all up by letting the kids decide what to do at school. Those kids are the direct cause and the grandparents to the current crop of undisciplined and in some cases near feral youth, who are leaving school for a lifetime of either benefits or prison. During my last five years working at a primary school, there were whole classes of thirty five year olds arriving, who had never been told a fairy story, or learned a nursery rhyme. They had spent the most formative period of their lives in front of a television, instead of being taught by their parents. Don T. |
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09 Apr 12 - 10:19 AM (#3335706) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T That's thirty "five year olds", not thirtyfive year olds. DT |
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09 Apr 12 - 10:47 AM (#3335723) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll Nice to see all the trite cliches dragged out again defending the shithole that Britain has been dragged down into by various rightist governments, whatever they call themselves. I lived in London for thirty years - moved there from the North when unemployment loomed - never missed a days work there, unlike in the North. First thing you notice is that Southerners had no idea of mass unemployment - no matter how bad it got there was always work - suggest you look at the figures. Maggie made the gap wider (this was after she had taken the free milk from impoverished schoolkids), but even before she graced us with her presence, the difference was enormous. Personally I get pissed of with southerners living in Britain's soft underbelly telling us "we've never had it so good"; you've got no ******* idea, and most of you couldn't give a **** - "ding-ding, I'm on the bus" seems to be the slogan there. Can't help but notice you've not responded to one fact put up, in the press, or from posters who have pointed out how it really is. - one more time from the 'leftist' Daily Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5479729/Working-class-children-let-down-by-education-system.html Don't live in this country - so what - have you met Bluesman he thinks like you - flag-waving prats, the pair of you. Jim Carroll |
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09 Apr 12 - 11:03 AM (#3335734) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs Difficult to answer from my Blackberry! |
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09 Apr 12 - 11:28 AM (#3335740) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll "Difficult to answer from my Blackberry! " Missing you already my canine friend - I'm sure you had something very profound to add. Jim Carroll |
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09 Apr 12 - 12:38 PM (#3335754) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,999 "What were they protesting?" If the motor had started, he coulda been visited in hospital rooms 16 to 173. |
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09 Apr 12 - 01:00 PM (#3335767) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle The thing is about rowing, its like fives and foxhunting - it posh gits. perhaps quite good at what they do. but in my experience if anybody's got sense at all, posh gits get right on your tits. The only reasonable and intelligent response possible is to give 'em one in the goolies like we did with the fox hunting ban. Perhaps if we could find irrefutable proof that a load of posh gits sticking their oars in the river and banging them about was cruel to the fishes and gave them headaches - we could get the boat race banned. |
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09 Apr 12 - 01:18 PM (#3335775) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Hooky Wole Anyone fancy clubbing together to buy a mini submarine and torpedos for next years race ? |
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09 Apr 12 - 01:20 PM (#3335776) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: John MacKenzie Inverted snobbery is worse than ordinary snobbery. Discuss! |
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09 Apr 12 - 01:25 PM (#3335781) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Will Fly I used to quite like rowing. As a teenager in Lancaster, I used to take a one-man skiff out on the river Lune. When I was a student in Leeds, I took out a boat every Wednesday afternoon on the lake in Roundhay Park - and in my London days, went out on the Serpentine on sunny Sunday afternoons. It's a great way to exercise. I never cared to watch boat racing or ever raced myself - and couldn't care less either way about the Boat Race - but, as a personal pastime, it was great fun. |
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09 Apr 12 - 01:32 PM (#3335783) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Doug Chadwick Perhaps because it's a unique event which happens nowhere else and only once a year John. I could even put up with having my favourite telly programs pushed aside for bloody football, if it only happened once a year. I agree. On a site where so many claim to support tradition, there seem to be a lot of followers of the green-eyed god of jealousy. As said above, it's once a year and does no harm that I can see. If you don't want to watch it then, by all means, find something to do that you feel is more productive but, please, leave those who want to watch it, to enjoy it in peace. DC |
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09 Apr 12 - 01:35 PM (#3335785) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Richard Bridge Don, I don't know who gave you your work ethic, and all credit for the scholarship etc - but it didn't serve you terribly well did it? You gave it to your children (as you gave them your linguistic and analytical ability), and perhaps it has served them better - thanks very probably to the years between your educational period under MacMillan, Home, etc and on the other hand the later Wilson "white heat of technology" years when social attitudes DID change and it was possible for some (but still not all) to get ahead. The possibility of social mobility was enhanced. Now it is decreasing and the UK has one of the least class-mobile societies. You should be screaming for an egalitarian society so that your grandchildren can prosper according to their abilities. |
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09 Apr 12 - 02:06 PM (#3335803) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Hookey Wole Inverted snobbery is worse than ordinary snobbery. On a site where so many claim to support tradition, there seem to be a lot of followers of the green-eyed god of jealousy. hey guys, I was only joking about the mini submarine mission.. gotta keep a good traditional British sense of the absurd... .. and obviously the idea is totally unrealistic what with all the paperwork and insurance and logistics; even if we could get enough pledges and donations.... |
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09 Apr 12 - 02:16 PM (#3335816) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll "of the green-eyed god of jealousy" Standard, and somewhat unimaginative cop-out whenever a fair society is mentioned Wanting to see your family fed, clothed and given a decent education has nothing to do with "jealousy" and it is usually those who don't have to worry about those sort of things - usually those whose values coincide with those of 'Pinochet's friend'. Notice not one of you have had the bottle to address the official figures on British 'equality' (or lack of same). Jim Carroll |
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09 Apr 12 - 02:52 PM (#3335847) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle No its inverted snobbery all right. I really think that our lot are better people than them lot. |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:01 PM (#3335852) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Moreover - there's more of us. So fish and chips should be declared haute cuisine - not this Michelin star crap. |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:03 PM (#3335853) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Fish and chips with mushy pea fritters, slices of buttered bread- and strong cup of tea. |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:07 PM (#3335857) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll "No its inverted snobbery all right. " Sorry - explain - this is about people getting a fair access to the necessities of life; who is trying to be better than anybody? Jim Carroll |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:11 PM (#3335860) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Hookey Wole The lot of a grammar school over educated council estate kid is to be forever socially and culturally displaced never able to fit comfortably at ease or be truly accepted at any spectrum of the class divide. Hence my vulgar predilection for drinking bargain tesco wine out of Pint Dimple Beer Mugs... [This is not a joke] |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:14 PM (#3335862) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,999 "Inverted snobbery is worse than ordinary snobbery. Discuss!" I agree with Giok. |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:25 PM (#3335867) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Megan L Now if someone is an inverted snob and they invert their inversion does the inverting inversion mean theyre aw erse fur elba? |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:30 PM (#3335871) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,999 Pretty much, Meg. |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:34 PM (#3335876) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Eliza Hookey Wole,actually, one can be 'comfortably at ease and truly accepted at any spectrum of the class divide'. The secret is to accept yourself and be at ease in your own skin. As a girl from the working class, given a superb grammar school education leading to a university degree and entry into the teaching profession, for many years I was not at ease with either the upper middle, middle or working class echelons of life. Like Eliza Doolittle I had been displaced from my humble origins yet did not fit in with the people I moved among. I felt an outsider in every group. But now as an elderly woman I see that this was due to my own view of myself, not that of others. If one tries to be cheerful, kind and friendly, a good listener, courteous and loyal, and self-confident, generally one is welcomed everywhere. In other words, it's your own character which gets you accepted. |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:44 PM (#3335887) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs Absolutely right Eliza, I'm sure!! |
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09 Apr 12 - 03:45 PM (#3335888) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Megan L Gosh lad i never saw you at the last Orkney barn dance ye should hiv introduced yersel :) |
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09 Apr 12 - 05:24 PM (#3335933) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Sorry Jim, but in my case I do feel I'm better than they they are. If you don't feel like that, fairy nuff! I think you should too. These posh blokes they make a mess of everything....the economy, foreign policy, planning the Olympics, running industry, town planning, allocating fair pensions, levvying fair taxes, the education system......... In England.....nobs rool ok! And if its not okay, we should tell them just how bloody inferior they are. They don't hesitate to try to make you feel like a piece of shit, when the boots on the other foot. |
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09 Apr 12 - 07:49 PM (#3335992) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bert Tunesmith says ...rowing is a white, middle-class sport... When did that come about? It didn't used to be. My Grandfather was a rower and he worked as a riveter at Thames Ironworks. |
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09 Apr 12 - 07:56 PM (#3335997) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""Don't live in this country - so what - have you met Bluesman he thinks like you - flag-waving prats, the pair of you. Jim Carroll "" Thank you Jim, that tells us all anybody needs to know about you and your attitudes. You pissed off to Ireland, but I don't see you having it much better there. The affluent south, BTW is a left wing fiction designed to cause a reaction in Northern folk, but when they come down here, they very quickly realise that everything they need to buy costs far more than up North and the higher wages don't come close to covering the difference. Don T. Don T. |
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09 Apr 12 - 08:20 PM (#3336010) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""Don, I don't know who gave you your work ethic, and all credit for the scholarship etc - but it didn't serve you terribly well did it? "" My father, who came over here from Ireland in the reverse of our unmissed Jim Carroll, volunteered (though he didn't need to) to serve in WW2, and subsequently held down three jobs at the same time so that his family could survive. My failure to go further in education was due entirely to the need for money to support my family, which was paramount for me as it was for my father. My kids are doing better than I ever did, which makes the hardship worthwhile, but I don't expect you to understand that, as to do so you would have had to be in that position. As for my grandchildren, they will thrive thank you. My children are already taking care of that. Don T. |
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09 Apr 12 - 10:17 PM (#3336056) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle well if your life has been as tough as that Don, can't you work up a little bit of resentment for all the people whose talents were as neglected as your own. My father also served inthe war and killed people. he wouldn't speak of it, but I gather it was a far from ennobling experience. The country owed him a hell of a lot more deference than he got. Can't you see, the upper classes think nothing of us, or our parents. If they did, they would have treated them better. And us. As for the north south divide being a fiction. there was a terraced house in Burnley on Homes under the Hammer this morning for 20 grand. the same house in Dorchester of Weymouth - where we've moved to retire to - would cost 140 grand. Go figure. Its just supply and demand. people can't afford 20 grand, because theres no work. Those towns were filled with people who had jobs and modest little ambitions of a decent life - til Thatcher did for 'em. I'm sorry you can't see the point I'm trying to make - I've seen other folks reason with you before. However i do think its a valid point - even if you can't get your head round it. I can understand Jim's frustration - although I can see that calling you a bigot isn't going to change your mind. |
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10 Apr 12 - 03:28 AM (#3336097) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Richard Bridge Don, you miss my point. Your diligence and ability did not lead to material success. The diligence and ability of your children has I think given them more success. What is the difference? I hesitate to suggest that they are more able than you were, it might or might not be luck, but most probably the difference is that at the key times for you society was more stratified, whereas at the key times for your children social mobility was encouraged. That sort of mobility is under attack from our current rulers. |
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10 Apr 12 - 04:20 AM (#3336107) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll "You pissed off to Ireland....." It's none of your business where I "pissed off"to Don and if that's the best you can come up with in place of an answer to the arguments put up here, it seems your own education is sorely wasted - why the hell are any of us discussing Israel, or Syria or racial killing in Florida if we let bullying pratts like yourself draw boundaries around where we can hold an opinion on? I was born and brought up in the UK and we moved to Ireland at retirement so that we could continue the work we did in the UK and in Ireland with traditional singers. None of this is your business, but if you are "just about sick to death of people who don't even live in this country...." I'm more than equally sick of thugs like you trying to silence what I have to say with crass tactics rather than arguments on the facts. You have the facts of elitism and inequality - answer then instead of trying to steamroller those facts out of the discussion. ".....but I don't see you having it much better there." With the exeption of having a far less elite education system over here, the situation is no different from the UK - how could it be? Ireland is also governed by incompetent and corrupt nest-feathering politicians and the economy is manipulated by corporate gangsters who have bled the country dry and are still paying themselves obscene salaries and bonusus for 'all the good work they have done', just like back home. Who ever suggested the situation was any different? "The affluent south, BTW is a left wing fiction" Throughout the time I lived in Britain I spent half of my life in the North and half in the South - only moving to London in order to continue working - there was none back home. I know first hand the situation in both and I still have family in the poorest part of the north coping with the effects of the divide on a daily basis. Certainly, as far as employment is concerned the North South divide is an acknowledged fact - it always has been and that divide is widening. Try some of the data here instead of trying to censor this discussion with inanities. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/29/indices-multiple-deprivation-poverty-england Jim Carroll |
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10 Apr 12 - 04:22 AM (#3336108) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Backwoodsman "The thing is about rowing, its like fives and foxhunting - it posh gits" Is it really? You know me, Al - am I a "Posh git"? Thought not. But for 15 years or so I was a competition rower, I took part in racing at regattas all over the north and midlands. The guys I rowed with were all, to a man, from the same background as me - factory- or office-worker parents, council house dwellers, state school education, never been anywhere but Skeg or Mablethorpe on holiday (if we got a holiday which, in many years, we didn't). And many of the guys I rowed against from other rowing clubs were exactly the same. Yes, some of the people I rubbed shoulders with were the sons and daughters of toffs, but most weren't. They were just ordianry guys and girls. It's a mistake to stereotype on the basis of one's own prejudices, doncha fink? |
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10 Apr 12 - 04:44 AM (#3336116) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle with respect John - the subject here is the boat race. And by dint of that the fact that the Oxbridge crowd have their feet on all our throats. Every sphere of life. They have decided what the criteria will be to be a success. And strangely enough declared themselves to be the winners. Of course ordinary folk row. My first home was Witham bank East, in Boston. Opposite Mattie Upsalls boat hire. Don't remember any of mattie's clients making it to Henley though. Should the bloke have jumped in the water. No, of course not. But doesn't it all get to you abit. there was this programme on the box last night - the history of comedy. Everybody saying how great the Pythons were. And its true they were talented. But Brownsville Banned were doing cleverer more way out stuff than them on the folkscene. And they never got a break - not having the Footlights connection. When the guillotines go up in Leicester square, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't stick afew aristo rowing boats under the knife. |
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10 Apr 12 - 05:05 AM (#3336120) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Backwoodsman "When the guillotines go up in Leicester square" Not in my lifetime Al, or yours for that matter - we're both a bit long in the tooth and the revolution's a long way off! The subject is indeed the boat race, but you and others have taken a lot of trouble to slag off not only the 'posh gits', but the very sport of rowing itself. Your own words damn you - "The thing is about rowing, its like fives and foxhunting - it posh gits". My grouse is simply that you and others, on the basis of some kind of perverse class-hatred, are tarring an entire sport, one which demands absolute, supreme fitness of its participants (could you lift a 55lb sack of potatoes from the ground to your chest, forty times a minute continuously for sixteen minutes?) and all of its devotees with the same brush. I personally don't understand peoples' devotion to horse-racing or golf - both are, IMHO, the most abysmal waste of TV-time there is, and are also beloved of the well-off, but I wouldn't deny others their right to enjoy them simply because of jealousy of their wealth. As I said, it's not a good idea to stereotype, and that's always true whether those under the cosh of the stereotypers are supposed posh-git sportsmen and women, or those dreadful Muslims who are apparently all running around with bombs under their Jib-Jabs. BTW - I played squash for thirty years too - I suppose that confirms me as a posh git? |
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10 Apr 12 - 05:07 AM (#3336121) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Eliza If we're talking about comedy, Billy Connelly and Lee Nelson spring to mind. They're two of the funniest men in the business, and both are from extrememly humble origins. |
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10 Apr 12 - 05:15 AM (#3336126) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Backwoodsman Sorry Eliza - right over my head there. |
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10 Apr 12 - 05:18 AM (#3336127) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Backwoodsman Ah, just got it! |
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10 Apr 12 - 05:18 AM (#3336128) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Jim Carroll "posh gits". Have no problem with the Boat Race - at least they clamber out of their ivory towers for an afternoon to provide us with some entertainment. Jim Caroll |
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10 Apr 12 - 05:27 AM (#3336136) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Backwoodsman Grrrro-o-o-o-o-o-a-a-a-n-n-n-nnnnnnn! |
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10 Apr 12 - 06:04 AM (#3336153) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: SPB-Cooperator Should the race have been restrated so soon? Coming close to taking someones head off would, in my opinion, broken the Oxford teams composure and concentration a tad. It would have made more sense to postpone the race for a month or so to give both teams a chance to buld up to the race again. |
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10 Apr 12 - 06:06 AM (#3336154) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs Buenos dias from the preferente coche of el AVE from Malaga to Cordoba! No intruders thankyou very much! |
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10 Apr 12 - 06:31 AM (#3336161) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs 300kph heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllp! |
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10 Apr 12 - 06:34 AM (#3336164) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs Bring on HS2! |
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10 Apr 12 - 06:42 AM (#3336166) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Backwoodsman "BTW - I played squash for thirty years too" Correction - it was twenty years. Got the maths wrong (oh dear, the deficiencies of a state education once again coming to the fore.....if only my dad had had the sense to put me through Eton!). |
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10 Apr 12 - 06:45 AM (#3336169) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""Don, you miss my point. Your diligence and ability did not lead to material success."" NO! You miss my point (as usual). I could have gone to University, I certainly had the entrance qualifications, but I was a practical analytical chemist. The theory needed to cope with what I was doing in the lab, I could handle fine. There were, however, no practical or NVQ courses back then, and I knew that a degree was a step beyond my capabilities. I made the choice not to continue. The point is that there was NO bar to my getting a place in a good university, nor was it difficult for other working class lads to do so. There is a lot of nonsense talked about poor kids not having a chance back then, and it's rare indeed for anybody to challenge that nonsense. In the 1950s, when I went through secondary education, the quality of teaching was uniformly good. The teachers considered it a vocation, not just a job, and any teacher confronted with a child who wanted to learn would pull out all the stops to help him/her achieve good grades. My brother failed the eleven plus and went to the local Secondary Modern (the kind of inner city school Jim rants about). He has a Masters Degree in fine art and retired recently from the post of assistant head of a school for disabled children. Social mobility is and always was a matter of aspiration and dedication. If this were the kind of country some would have us believe, half the MPs in Parliament would never have got there. Don T. |
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10 Apr 12 - 06:55 AM (#3336174) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Eliza I agree Don. All the children in my Junior school (late forties) were working class, some from quite poor or rough families. (One lad, who got a place in Grammar School, had a Dad in prison, and there were a few single parents) We were an ordinary working class bunch, but those who had ability and were prepared to work at their lessons, were given all possible opportunities to go on to Higher Education. My friend (whose Dad also ended up in prison!) went on to Teacher Training College and did very well. Several of us went on to University from Grammar School. I know of two who ended up as doctors. My sister is one! We were very lucky that the 'Class Barriers' didn't seem to hold us back. |
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10 Apr 12 - 02:21 PM (#3336358) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Greg B Well, one thing is true; the sliding seat and oars have no respect whatsoever for class distinctions, nor for any sense of entitlement. Indeed, if you're fast, have great form, can work along with a team, and continue to do so over a long distance it's not because of how much money you stand to inherit (or not). It's because you worked and sacrificed for it. |
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10 Apr 12 - 02:42 PM (#3336364) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Will Fly I'm sure you're right, Greg. The dispute seems to be about the route that people can or can't take to get that point, i.e. the educational possibilities/impossibilities that help or hinder progress, and the social environments that play a part in it all. The argument is not actually about the Boat Race or rowing as such - it revolves around the polarised attitudes towards being there or not. I used to enjoy knocking around in a boat - I never associated it with privilege or lack of privilege - it was just fun. |
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10 Apr 12 - 03:44 PM (#3336407) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Greg B The same might be said of the European-style equestrian pursuits, as well, as regards class and privilege (though in the USA, gender seems to figure into whether a young rider receives encouragement and opportunity more than socioeconomic class). |
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10 Apr 12 - 03:48 PM (#3336409) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: The Sandman I am really looking forward to getting an EFDSS Gold Badger. |
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10 Apr 12 - 04:01 PM (#3336416) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,999 Better known as the honey badger, this little creature will make you come alive. May your dream come true, Dick. |
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10 Apr 12 - 04:19 PM (#3336424) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle That beast, the honey badger Its realy is terribly sad yer Didn't realise that scrote, Is a rapist of note. As soon as it jumps up - its had yer. |
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10 Apr 12 - 04:55 PM (#3336450) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs Class is certainly no barrier to dropping babies, as the group of beggars in Cordoba ably demonstrated!!! |
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10 Apr 12 - 05:27 PM (#3336464) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,999 Class: ya got it or ya don't. "True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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10 Apr 12 - 06:43 PM (#3336499) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: gnu STROKE! |
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11 Apr 12 - 01:00 PM (#3336783) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bert Thanks Backwoodsman, it is good to hear that rowing is not just an upper class sport. |
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11 Apr 12 - 05:13 PM (#3336915) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle well they all look like tories to me. ..... |
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11 Apr 12 - 05:26 PM (#3336922) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle in fact there used to be all this nonsense before we got foxhunting banned. they used to say, foxhunting is classless nowadays - lots of miners do it. And we all used to think, I wonder if thats why so many huntsmen have a torch on their head. |
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11 Apr 12 - 06:48 PM (#3336962) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""well they all look like tories to me. ....."" From your comments it would seem that anybody who doesn't walk to work carrying a snap tin full of workman's lunch, and comes home with clean face and hands looks like a Tory to you. Breaking news Al!! Some working class blokes even wear suits, collars and ties. Don T. |
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11 Apr 12 - 09:51 PM (#3337028) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Hookey Wole Don I'm guessing you're a fair bit older than me but not quite as old as my dad would be now if.. my dad was a factory worker, came out national service with glowing references, but still ended up on the shop floor all his life. Easily more intelligent than all his workmates and most if not all the managers and directors. HE was a natural to be elected shop steward. An intelligent rational reasonable trade unionist. A moderate trade unionist. Who knows how many thousands of £££s he saved the factory trying to avoid suicidal firebrand wildcat strikes just for the sake of it. Should I be a proud son of a conciliatory hero or an ashamed son of a cowardly Bosses lackey !!!?? All I know is his 30 or 40 years loyal service to Boss & union meant fuck all when the dimwit son of the company owner pissed the wealth away and shocked my dad with redundancy at an age where there was no hope of re-employment and his working life lost all meaning. Don why can't you at least concede that you are a srong exception and not all of our families are as sturdy as yours ? My family never recovered. Don please stop judging and dismissing all of us by your own stern personal standards. |
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11 Apr 12 - 10:49 PM (#3337045) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bert I don't think my Grandfather was a Tory. |
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12 Apr 12 - 03:13 AM (#3337077) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs My maternal grandad was a shop steward in the North Thames Gas Board but died when I was 8 years old. My paternal grandad was a publisher's yardsman (??), but we are all safely middle class now, if it's all the same to you! |
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12 Apr 12 - 09:35 AM (#3337202) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle I bet they said all nasty things about that sufragette who chucked herself in front of the racehorse. But the basic cause she supported was a good one. And in the same way really - this bloke is right. There is too much inequality in England. The powere elites have got us all by the throat. That's what that Spycatcher case was about. Thatcher wanted to conceal how her supporters in the MI5 had cheated her into office - by subversive acts attacking the Wilson and Callaghan governments. Apparently MI5 have their own little exclusive seating section at lords. Lets hope the guy goes for that, next. |
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12 Apr 12 - 11:29 AM (#3337252) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: MGM·Lion All this about posh gits -- I am reminded of the story Ewan MacColl tells in Journeyman: a young bejeaned couple denounced Ewan & Peggy for singing to a middle-class audience at a concert at the Town Hall at IIRC Portsmouth. Enquiries revealed that the audience was most predominantly of working-class people who considered it mannerly to put on a collar & tie for a Town Hall concert; the denouncing couple were at Oxford. You know me too, Al. I got the impression you didn't object too strongly to me. But I happen to have been at Cambridge, & to speak more-or-less RP. Does that make me a 'posh git' to be despised on some sort of principle of some sort of equality. O woe & alack-the-day!..... ~M~ |
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12 Apr 12 - 11:50 AM (#3337262) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,999 A Farewell to Arms . . . all those in favour. |
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12 Apr 12 - 11:57 AM (#3337267) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Eliza Woe and alack indeed MtheGM! I too speak an approximation to RP, but my Grandad was a Durham miner, the maternal one a penniless Irish alcoholic with ten children. My parents worked hard all their lives (and I mean nearly ALL) and spoke in the broad accents of their birthplaces. I do hope nobody thinks of me as a snob, or 'posh', I was born to working class parents and see myself as 'educated working class', nothing more, nothing less. If I lived in London I'd certainly want to watch the Boat Race. My Dad taught me to row (he was in Air-Sea Rescue for a time) and if I'd felt like it, I might have rowed for my Uni! But I am just a fellow human-being, nothing special. |
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12 Apr 12 - 12:21 PM (#3337287) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T ""Don please stop judging and dismissing all of us by your own stern personal standards."" If you think that's what I'm doing, then you have totally misunderstood. I have been trying to prevent others from doing the self same thing, only they are the favoured left wing majority here, and I'm the hated Tory who is reviled and dismissed by more than a few members. I simply maintain that in days of my youth, opportunity was available to all who chose to grasp it, and that is still true today. The basis of success however was, and still is, willingness to learn and willingness to work. Remember that those kids who want to go to university have a much broader choice of subjects, do not have to pay anything up front, and will actually pay a lower percentage of their monthly income than my son did in repaying their loans, and earn £6000 pa more than he did before they pay anything at all. I suspect that many thousands will never pay off the whole amount, which makes all the breast beating a bit ridiculous. Don T. |
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12 Apr 12 - 12:41 PM (#3337298) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T By the way Hookey, it was rude of me not to answer your question, so please forgive me for that. Of course you should be proud of your dad for his willingness to represent his work mates, his reasonable attitude to negotiation, and his tolerance of opposing viewpoints. Nothing in your description of him suggests subservience, but rather a pragmatic understanding of the limits of what is possible, combined with the common sense to negotiate within those limits, and the money saved probably led later to somewhat better pay deals than would otherwise have been the case Had the likes of Arthur Scargill possessed a modicum of those qualities, we would have avoided a year long strike which cost peoples' lives, turned brother against brother, put the last nail in the coffin of a major British industry (for which Thatcher got the blame), and resulted in a settlement identical to that which was on the table before the strike began. One could cite a dozen or so similar incidents which put the skids under British industry. It shoud be remembered too that the gap between rich and poor widened massively under Blair/Brown, and the education system began to drown under a sea of paperwork, targets and pointless tweaks, which took teachers away from teaching. |
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12 Apr 12 - 12:52 PM (#3337304) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Fishing for compliments, MGM? You know, I regard you as one of nature's aristocrats - a damn decent chap. As for the rest of this lot - if they've ever so much as hired a rowing boat at Skegnes, I'd have them clapped in the Bastille, and carted off to the Gulag. |
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12 Apr 12 - 01:19 PM (#3337313) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs We always laugh at how self confessed and born again working class people are always "proud of their roots" - really? |
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12 Apr 12 - 03:17 PM (#3337380) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: MGM·Lion Not 'fishing for compliments', Al; but genuinely exercised as to how you perceive me, whom you happen to know & regard as a 'decent chap' [not quite sure what 'one of nature's aristocrats' signifies exactly ~~ the old phrase 'one of nature's gentlemen' used to be regarded as a somewhat patronising phrase for the use of the gentry for those of perceived lower status who had nevertheless some modicum of breeding] as different from the 'posh gits' whom you denounce thruout this thread? ~M~ |
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12 Apr 12 - 03:44 PM (#3337398) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Fear not. I perceive you as a good egg. |
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12 Apr 12 - 03:53 PM (#3337401) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,999 A picture is worth 943 words. |
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13 Apr 12 - 02:51 AM (#3337597) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,666 Hey, can some one bring Morris Dancing into this class argument please? Dare ya.... |
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13 Apr 12 - 03:31 AM (#3337604) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: MGM·Lion Thanks indeed, Al. Do not wish to be a bore, but feel it important to esatblish, in lite of comments above from you & others, that we may e3xtrapolate from this that a 'posh git', or one with outward aqppearance of being so, can simultaneously & nevertheless be a 'good egg'? I really do think this a point worth establishing as a general proposition in regard to the topic of this thread, quite apart from the fact that congenial relationships chance to exist between Al & me. ~M~ |
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13 Apr 12 - 03:50 AM (#3337608) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Will Fly Blimey - are you two mates then? |
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13 Apr 12 - 04:13 AM (#3337616) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs Morris dancers required immediately to entertain the approximately 500 people in the Thompson Airline check in queues at Malaga airport!!!! Thankfully the BA fast bag drop took 5 minutes. |
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13 Apr 12 - 04:16 AM (#3337618) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Not really mates. I'm a fan. I think he's terrific. You and Jim, too, Will. |
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13 Apr 12 - 06:17 AM (#3337648) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Patsy Some might say that the Isle of Wight Cowes week in August is for the elite and as with the boat race it will be there long after we have gone. So we can either get over it or not tune in, hopefully the Oxford team mate is on the mend. |
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13 Apr 12 - 12:58 PM (#3337800) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Yeh morris dancers.....huh! |
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13 Apr 12 - 01:25 PM (#3337813) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Eliza Exactly Patsy, they've all got a right to amuse themselves as they wish, 'posh' or not, and they'll go on doing just that for evermore. Personally, I'm dreading the Grand National, so many horses suffer and die each year it breaks my heart. I refuse to watch it or even read about it. Now Morris dancing... the passion of my life! And from what I've observed over the years, totally classless. |
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13 Apr 12 - 03:07 PM (#3337862) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Will Fly Be careful, Eliza - I hear they're now shooting Morris dancers who fall and break a leg... |
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14 Apr 12 - 02:07 AM (#3338054) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST The Morris may be classless, but until quite recently [about 20 years I reckon] it was peculiarly sexist ~~ women need not apply. Then women's sides & mixed sides began to appear, and the skies resolutely declined to fall! Tho IIRC there was one woman in the photograph C Sharp took of one of his early sides. ~M~ |
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14 Apr 12 - 03:59 AM (#3338074) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,giovanni From a position of an outsider, forgive me saying this, but elitist twats are part of society too, so why shouldn't they have their leisure pursuits? Does everything have to fit the rules of "working class" in order to be allowed to exist? g |
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14 Apr 12 - 04:32 AM (#3338078) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Oh there we go again. Another oppressed millionaire morris dancer getting in his rowing boat to give you their ten pen'orth....! I've got no time for the lot of them. I'd make them all do liberal studies in a lesbian communist commune, and learn how the other half live. |
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14 Apr 12 - 05:54 AM (#3338100) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle I'd give that gang of puffs something to wave their hankies at! |
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14 Apr 12 - 05:55 AM (#3338102) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,petecockermouth i'm sure some toffs can be absolutely spiffing chaps, it's just the company they keep that's the problem...in the uk just now we have a government of tory millionaires who are determinedly working hard to dismantle everything that ordinary folk have that makes life a bit more comfortable, enjoyable and secure. these are seriously ruthless yet ignorant political operators. while obviously there are many good folk in any class, it tends to be the better off who tolerate and support this thuggish behaviour. they can splash about in boats or do whatever they like until other people -or animals- get hurt, but that is what happens if you sanction the tories in power. (by the way -this is not a party political point-i'm well aware there are plenty of 'tories' only prepared to tinker around with capitalism in all 3 major parties) |
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14 Apr 12 - 08:07 AM (#3338140) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Eliza Maypole dancing is generally 'sexist' too. I've never seen men skipping round prettily with their ribbons. Well, that's not strictly true. One year at the Royal Norfolk Show, some schoolchildren were doing a dear little Maypole Dance, while waiting their turn to go on was a group of Masai men. The children's teacher offered these men a ribbon each to dance in among the children and to my amazement they accepted. They were convulsed with laughter and skipped along gamely, wearing their red blankets and bead necklaces. I nearly cried with delight. That little moment, raceless, classless and ageless, will stay in my memory forever. |
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14 Apr 12 - 08:14 AM (#3338144) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs It only seems to be self confessed and born again working class people who worry about all this - we just have to suffer all the whinging!! |
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14 Apr 12 - 09:50 AM (#3338179) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Cos its time the capitalist running dogs suffered. If it were up to me you would have a Daily Mail inserted in the rectum and be whinged at until your ears turned puce. |
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14 Apr 12 - 12:54 PM (#3338242) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Eliza Big Al, please may I do the Mail crossword first before it's...er...inserted? |
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14 Apr 12 - 02:48 PM (#3338302) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle well you wouldn't want to do it afterwards........ |
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14 Apr 12 - 02:52 PM (#3338306) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Manitas_at_home cut it into squares and hang it on a nail |
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15 Apr 12 - 03:00 AM (#3338518) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle No Bonzo's getting the lot. Including the sunday magazine and the free DVD. |
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15 Apr 12 - 04:13 AM (#3338532) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: MGM·Lion But, dashit, no gentleman reads the Daily Mail. The Times... |
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15 Apr 12 - 05:31 AM (#3338542) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Precisely! |
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15 Apr 12 - 07:49 AM (#3338590) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Bonzo3legs "No Bonzo's getting the lot. Including the sunday magazine and the free DVD." I think not. |
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15 Apr 12 - 09:10 AM (#3338606) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle Typical boourgeois reaction. Failing to fall in with Composite 3A -subsection 31. I move.....! |
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15 Apr 12 - 09:15 AM (#3338607) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: Big Al Whittle I suppose i should have said, Sorry brother! the motion has been passed! |
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15 Apr 12 - 03:04 PM (#3338744) Subject: RE: BS: Boat race disrupted... From: GUEST,Hookey Wole My earlier sarcastic comments about livening up the race with paint ball guns and outboard motors is utterly restrained compared to this genuine witness account... http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/boat-race-kills-27-201204105104/ |
