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17 Jul 12 - 12:02 PM (#3377752) Subject: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: JedMarum "Rosin The Beau" has got to be one of the most frequently reused melodies for new songs over the generations. Likewise "Rising of the Moon" What are some of the others?? I am looking for songs that are generations old, and have been used and reused for songs across those generations. |
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17 Jul 12 - 12:09 PM (#3377756) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Leadfingers The Winding Banks Of Erne is one title of the tune used for a number of songs , including The Durham Lockout and Tramps and Hawkers . |
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17 Jul 12 - 12:19 PM (#3377769) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: MartinRyan "The Star of the County Down" (thought of as Irish though probably not) is ubiquitous. "Flower of Sweet Strabane" also very common. I seem to remember an old joke that went "There's only four tunes in the whole of the Ulster singing tradition - and three of them are versions of The Star of the County Down!" Regards |
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17 Jul 12 - 12:21 PM (#3377770) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Marje Are you talking about songs that are originally Irish and have been recycled, or songs that the Irish have nicked from elsewhere and recycled into Irish songs? Or maybe both? Marje |
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17 Jul 12 - 12:30 PM (#3377775) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Mr Happy ......as seen at Manchester airport shop. A cd '20 best loved Irish songs' included 'I belong to Glasgow'! |
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17 Jul 12 - 12:32 PM (#3377777) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: GUEST,gillymor The melody of "Banks of the Bann" is used, in some form, in a couple of hymns- "Lord of All Hopefulness" and "Be Thou My Vision". |
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17 Jul 12 - 12:41 PM (#3377783) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: MGM·Lion Is that Banks Of Bann tune known also, with different words, as With My Love On The Road? ~M~ |
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17 Jul 12 - 12:52 PM (#3377792) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: GUEST,sturgeon 'Rosin the Beau'? Are you some kind of pervert? |
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17 Jul 12 - 01:03 PM (#3377800) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: JedMarum pervert? I don't get it. |
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17 Jul 12 - 01:35 PM (#3377823) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: GUEST,sturgeon Jed, the tune is called 'Rosin the Bow' not 'Rosin the Beau' which has an entirely different meaning! |
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17 Jul 12 - 01:40 PM (#3377824) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: GUEST,leeneia "I am looking for songs that are generations old, and have been used and reused for songs across those generations." From what I have seen, I don't think that's possible, Jed. There are too many decades where nobody was paying any attention to the music of ordinary people. Sure, we have some collections, and later there were recordings, but I don't think there's enough info to do what you hope for. For one thing, we have a lot more lyrics than tunes written down. That said, you might look into the tune for "Lambs in the Green Fields." I don't know how many generations it spans, but it's been a popular tune. |
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17 Jul 12 - 01:43 PM (#3377827) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Megan L Actually sturgeon it is shown under both names. rosin the bow makes sense to a fiddler but Roisin is an Irish girls name so it is possible that someone hearing it whenit swam the water thought it was a tune about a beautiful girl. |
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17 Jul 12 - 01:44 PM (#3377829) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: JedMarum 'Rosin the Beau' is quite commonly used as the title, and it is purposely used as a double entendre. |
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17 Jul 12 - 01:49 PM (#3377834) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: GUEST,sturgeon Except that would be Roisin the Belle, Megan! |
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17 Jul 12 - 01:59 PM (#3377840) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: John MacKenzie Star of the County Down, isn't that the Dives and Lazarus variation? It's also used as a hymn tune of course. As was pointed out to me, Rosin the Bow, is the basis for Dick Gaughan's tune to Both Sides the Tweed, although I'm not sure he realised it at the time. I thought it sounded like, Canan nan Gael, till the Rosin the Bow similarity was pointed out. |
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17 Jul 12 - 02:06 PM (#3377846) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: JedMarum leeneia - these titles we've been discussing are exactly what I was looking for. I just hope to jog my memory with this discussion. There are some long loved, long remembered melodies that keep reappearing over the years, with new lyrics ... I'm just hoping to build a list of those melodies, to consider using one or two for a project. |
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17 Jul 12 - 06:32 PM (#3377957) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Seamus Kennedy Homes of Donegal. Crooked Jack - no wait! that's the Star of the Co. Down. Roddy McCorley. Dawning of the Day (Raglan Rd, William Bloat). The Blarney Roses (Lakes of Pontchartrain). |
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17 Jul 12 - 06:33 PM (#3377958) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Seamus Kennedy I forgot: Homes of Donegal (My Little Son, Tramps & Hawkers). |
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17 Jul 12 - 11:18 PM (#3378092) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: GUEST,leeneia Good. I play early music a lot, and apparently my notion of 'an old song' is different from yours. I'm glad you are finding what you need. Another tune you might like is 'Kelvingrove.' I've heard it with modern words by John Bell, "Will You Come and Follow Me?" and as the old song, "The Shearing's No for You, My Bonnie Lassie, O." I think catters have mentioned other songs to the tune. |
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17 Jul 12 - 11:19 PM (#3378094) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: framus Surely you have to go to the Nationalist thread for unique tunes (?). Four Green fields, The West's Awake ? Ready to be shot down here. Almost every "rebel" tune has it's equivalent in our Proddy equivalent. |
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18 Jul 12 - 12:46 AM (#3378109) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Big Al Whittle The Limerick rake is often used Tom Paxton used it for The High Sheriff of hazard |
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18 Jul 12 - 01:11 AM (#3378115) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: MGM·Lion And Ewan used The Limerick Rake for Champion At Keeping Them Rolling ~ more likely where Paxton got the tune from than from the original. ~M~ |
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18 Jul 12 - 01:17 AM (#3378117) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Seamus Kennedy Framus - good point. The Loyal Orange heroes of Comber (Come Out Ye Black & Tans). The Sash (Ulster Fry & Champ, or Lord Nelson)) |
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18 Jul 12 - 04:18 AM (#3378148) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: MartinRyan "Youghal Harbour"/"Boolavogue"/"Sweet Omagh Town" turns up in lots of places. REgards |
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18 Jul 12 - 05:38 AM (#3378180) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Marje The "Dives and Lazarus"/ Star of the Co Down tune is also related to The Parting Glass and Molly, Lovely Molly. Marje |
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18 Jul 12 - 05:47 AM (#3378184) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: GUEST Irish Molly Oh and the Sash My Father Wore - of course |
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18 Jul 12 - 05:48 AM (#3378185) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: MGM·Lion Star of County Down used also for some sets of Maria Marten ~~ e.g. as sung by Shirley Collins on No Roses. ~M~ |
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18 Jul 12 - 07:34 AM (#3378226) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Steve Gardham Which came first would be difficult to say but 'Croppy Boy/Lady Franklin's Lament/McCaffery Here's another list of songs that use the 'Dives& Lazarus' tune. Star of the Co Down King Herod & the Cock Lowlands of Holland Stormy winds do blow/We Shepherds Banks of the Nile Miller of the Dee Ist strain of shanty 'Lowlands, Lowlands, Low.' and many more. I would guess the Child Ballads in this list have been using the tune the longest. Somebody mentioned 'My irish Molly O' which is related to The Girl I left Behind The Roving bachelors I walk the road again (NE American) The Merrimac (Cumberland and Merrimac) Jim Jones (Aussie) The Turfman from Ardee How about 'The Irish Girl'? The Jam on Gerry's Rock Peter Emberley Farmer's Son and the Shanty Boy. Kevin Barry=Rolling Home to Merry ....... Pretty Girl Milking her Cow= The Last Fierce Charge The Green Mossy Banks of the Lea Erin's Green Shores Terence's farewell Send Back my Barney (Original of 'My Bonny') etc etc etc. |
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18 Jul 12 - 06:02 PM (#3378464) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Seamus Kennedy Kevin Barry- Will My Soul Pass Thro' Old Ireland, The Rebel Soldier (U.S.) |
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18 Jul 12 - 07:38 PM (#3378503) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: GUEST,gillymor MGM, in response to your question re "Banks of the Bann": I don't know. I'm not familiar with that song you mentioned. "B of the B" also uses the same melody as Lakes of Champlain as performed by Martin Simpson. Andy Irvine used the "Star of the County Down" melody for "There's Sure to be a Row". |
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18 Jul 12 - 07:52 PM (#3378513) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Big Al Whittle and the Wild rover for the Clover advert....probably better known to most kids than the original. |
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19 Jul 12 - 03:10 AM (#3378600) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: MartinRyan "Banks of the Bann" is close to "Be Thou my Vision", certainly. I believe several other hymns use the air also, REgards |
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17 Sep 19 - 08:10 AM (#4009268) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Lighter Vivien Richman sang "Handsome Mary, the Lily of the West," to the "County Down" tune on her 1959 Folkways album, Folk Songs of West Pennsylvania. Snippet: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000S9AIFK/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp Richman's words are from an 1878 printed version. Liner notes associate the "Star" tune with "the Irish version" of "Lily." |
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17 Sep 19 - 10:30 AM (#4009291) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: weerover Londonderry Air |
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17 Sep 19 - 07:08 PM (#4009360) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Tattie Bogle Yes, "In Derry Vale" to the same Londonderry Air as ""Danny Boy": but not much newer in origin, though lesser known. Van Diemen's Land is yet another to the tune of Star of the County Down. Ewan McVicar used "Southwind" as the tune for his song, "All the Tunes in the World". |
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18 Sep 19 - 01:32 PM (#4009454) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: weerover I also have to Londonderry Air: To Eire; Acushla Mine; Anthem for Ireland; Emer's Farewell; In Derry Vale Beside the Singing River; Irish Lover; Would God I Were the Tender Apple Blossom; Flood Tide That Ebbs; McSwiney Taught Us How to Die; O, Jeannie Dear; Oh Boy, Danny (parody); Oh Mary Dear; Loves Wishes. |
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19 Sep 19 - 04:15 AM (#4009535) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Jack Campin The Wild Colonial Boy uses the Tramps and Hawkers tune. What was it known as when TWCB was first published? |
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19 Sep 19 - 04:24 AM (#4009536) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: GUEST,Jerry Was that the tune used for Dylan’s I Pity the Poor Immigrant, as well? |
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19 Sep 19 - 11:16 AM (#4009587) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Tattie Bogle The usual version of Wild Colonial Boy uses a different tune from Tramps and Hawkers: it has the same waltzy meter and occasional similar phrases, but not the same tune. The Tramps and Hawkers tune does get used for quite a few songs, as does Puir Roving Lassie in the Scots canon, tho not sure about any in the Irish repertoire using that latter tune. |
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19 Sep 19 - 01:20 PM (#4009607) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Jack Campin It seems that The Wild Colonial Boy was first printed in 1881 in A.T. Hodgson's "New Colonial Songster". Anybody got that? What did Hodgson call the tune? It's only very slightly different from the modern Scottish "Tramps and Hawkers" tune, the main changes are in pacing and emphasis (TWCB is a waltz, T&H isn't). It would be nice to know if those slight divergences happened in Ireland, Scotland or Australia. TWCB had versions set fully in Australia and partly in Ireland - are the part-Irish ones the original or a re-import? |
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19 Sep 19 - 05:27 PM (#4009646) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Mrrzy Sweet Betsy from Pike. I know lots of Irish songs to that tune. |
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20 Sep 19 - 02:44 PM (#4009733) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: Tattie Bogle Just listened to a few versions of Wild Colonial Boy on YouTube: Clancys, Dubliners, Irish Rovers: they all beef it up into 4/4. Nothing like T & H! |
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20 Sep 19 - 08:16 PM (#4009766) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: The Sandman tattiebpogle,people likle theones you mention, piss around with music all the time, the wild colonial boy was axxording to the penguin australian folk song book.. in 3/4 |
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21 Sep 19 - 06:31 AM (#4009795) Subject: RE: The Commonest Recycled Irish Tunes From: weerover The Garden Where the Praties Grow, Father O'Flynn, The Girl I Left Behind Me, Irish Washerwoman, Men of the West, Skibereen, Rocks of Bawn, Enniskillen Dragoons, Boys of Wexford, Boyne Water, Mountains of Mourne, Bold Thady Quill, Croppies Lie Down, Cruiskeen Lawn, Garryowen, Lilliburlero, Paddy O'Carroll, Mo Cailín Deas Crúidhte na m-bó, Rising of the Moon, Savourneen Deelish, Shan Van Vocht, Teddy O'Neill, The Harp That Once..., The Low-back'd Car, Valley of Knockanure, Wearing of the Green, She Lived Beside the Anner, Sprig of Shillelagh. All of the above are tunes to which I have sets of lyrics well into double figures. |