|
02 Aug 12 - 12:05 PM (#3385126) Subject: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Arkie Had expected to see some interest in the scandal brewing over the Olympic badminton athletes throwing early matches to get easier opponents or to conserve energy depending upon who one is to believe. The athletes were playing by the rules if not according to expectations of sports fans or officials. While I do not personally excuse the actions of the athletes, I do think it appropriate for consideration of officials who made 'bad' rules. Star quits Link 2 |
|
02 Aug 12 - 12:17 PM (#3385134) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: dick greenhaus Winning in competitive sports necessitates taking full advantage of the rules.If that leads to unfortunate results, change the rules. |
|
02 Aug 12 - 12:38 PM (#3385141) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Arkie Dick, I agree. I do not fault the athletes in this case as much as I do a change in rules that encourages them to give less in the competition. What I suspect will happen, based upon what I have seen so far, is that the IOC will try to place all fault on athletes and coaches when the rules committee is primarily to blame. If athletes are to be penalized why not do the same for IOC rules committee. They should be sent home as well as the athletes. |
|
02 Aug 12 - 06:52 PM (#3385341) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Nigel Parsons The week before the Olympics BBC showed an historic drama Bert & Dickie about the pairs sculls in 1938. Even in that the British pair are shown deliberately under-performing in the heats, with this intention of getting to the next round by way of the repechage, thus delaying meeting major rivals until the finals. Unfortunately other good pairs had the same idea, making the repechage a much harder way to the finals. Plus ça change (plus c'est la même chose). Cheers Nigel |
|
02 Aug 12 - 07:39 PM (#3385353) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Bobert I ain't into badminton but there is a parallel story in drag racing... They call it "bracket racing"... What you have to do is "dial in" (guess) your "e.t." (elapsed time to complete the 1/4 mile) and the trick is to run as close to that time as you can without going under it... You go under it, you lose... So what you see is racers hitting their brakes before the finish line if they are sufficiently ahaed of the other car... In my day it was pedal to the metal until you crossed the finish line... Then, and only then, the brake... B~ |
|
02 Aug 12 - 08:58 PM (#3385378) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Sandy Mc Lean There was no attempt to play the game and each team was intentionally flipping the bird into the net. They were warned by the ref and ordered to play but they ignored him. The disqualification was well deserved, but I suspect the teams were ordered by their coaches and team officials. People who payed good money for tickets to this event were mad as hell! China did not want to meet the other Chinese team until the final when they could play each other for gold and silver. Korea wanted to avoid playing the other Chinese team as well, hoping for an easier match. Says damn little about the spirit of competition, but greed and national interference, fixes and bribes, have sadly ruled the Olympics for many years! |
|
03 Aug 12 - 09:39 AM (#3385568) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Rapparee Flipping the bird and underplaying! What's next? Deliberately missing the wicket in croquet? Shocking, and contemptible if true (in the words of that great American, Aaron Burr). |
|
03 Aug 12 - 10:57 AM (#3385602) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Arkie Sandy thanks for the description of the match. My curiosity was aroused by a newspaper article and though I have enjoyed watching some Asian players in action I have yet to see an Olympic badminton match. While there is precedent for under performing in sports and some athletes believe in putting forth a full effort in every contest, some competitors will break rules to win, some will calculate how to win within the rules, I would think that the rules of the sport would encourage the best effort of the competitors at all times. When a sport is played before an audience, it would certainly be in the best interest of the game that all competitors made their best effort. In this case the athletes have been penalized. What about the IOC rule makers who created this situation? |
|
03 Aug 12 - 12:39 PM (#3385633) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: GUEST It ain't just the Olympics. In professional sports, where the team with the worst record often gets first crack at next year's rospects,there's little incentive for a low-ranking team to try hard to improve its record as the season closes. |
|
03 Aug 12 - 01:50 PM (#3385665) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Arkie It appears that much of what happens in life is not a simple as it seems. As has been already pointed out here there is precedent for doing less than one's best in sport and in the Olympics specifically. "As The Times recently reported, very similar behavior by the Japanese women's soccer team was met with shrugs. The players were told by their coach not to score in their game Tuesday against South Africa, because a loss or tie would give them a more winnable matchup in the next round. It's impossible to know how often such strategizing occurs in sports such as soccer, basketball and volleyball that employ round-robin tournaments, but we suspect it has happened many times before (although games are seldom tossed as flagrantly as the ejected badminton players from China, South Korea and Indonesia tossed theirs)." Story |
|
03 Aug 12 - 02:01 PM (#3385676) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Jack the Sailor Obviously the issue with the Chinese & Koreans, is that both had the same strategy. So each had to be "better" at losing. Quite funny when you think about it. I think the obvious move would be to allow them each just one team in the next Olympics then they would not have to be concerned with having to play their country mates. |
|
03 Aug 12 - 07:08 PM (#3385835) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: McGrath of Harlow I would think that a game where each side was actually trying to lose could be very entertaining to watch. |
|
04 Aug 12 - 04:08 AM (#3385921) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Big Al Whittle The Olympic Games is about celebrating ethnic diversity....welcoming a load of sneaky cheating foreigners here and pretending we like them for two weeks. Bit like the Eurovision Song Contest - only no Terry Wogan and more expensive. |
|
04 Aug 12 - 01:21 PM (#3386082) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: SPB-Cooperator makes me wonder why they bother with the Olympic oaths when nobody is bothered to uphold it. |
|
04 Aug 12 - 07:31 PM (#3386220) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Hang on, let's get some perspective SPB! 4 pairs in one discipline are rightly punished and we have a rant about "nobody upholding the Olympic oath." There are Approximately 10,500 individuals, from 204 countries, taking part in 300 events in 26 sports divided into 39 disciplines, competing for 4,700 medals. That's one hell of a lot of "nobody"! Don T. |
|
05 Aug 12 - 02:44 PM (#3386528) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Nigel Parsons Obviously the time has come that when teams are not in a straight elimination (knock-out) competition, but are playing a 'round-robin' or similar, that the draw for the knock-out section is only made after any qualifying rounds have been decided. Okay, that might mean facing the same opponents twice before the finals, but if the draw is fair then that should not be a problem. |
|
06 Aug 12 - 01:45 AM (#3386716) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: MGM·Lion Agree with Nigel: much of this abuse would be avoided if there were not so invariable a system announced at the start as "Group A winners will play Group B runners-up in knock-out rounds", but a draw were to be made of all group 1 & 2 qualifiers after the completion of the group stage. Simples. ~M~ |
|
06 Aug 12 - 05:03 AM (#3386757) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: GUEST,Howard Jones Tactics and strategy are part of sport. In any tournament the objective is not to win an individual match but to win the tournament. Winning the tournament should mean you have to win the individual matches, but if it is designed in such a way that it is better to lose some then there is a flaw in the way the tournament is organised. It seems to be entirely accepted in some sports that tactics will be used. To take just one example, in the cycle road race the GB team were quite up-front about the fact that they were working to give Cav the best chance of winning (and the other teams were working to prevent it), rather than giving their best efforts to win as individuals. Of course the badminton was particularly blatant, and particularly unsatisfactory to the audience (but again, the point is not to entertain an audience but to win a tournament), but it seems to me to unsurprising in the circumstances. The question is why should a competitor be put in a position where it would be to their disadvantage to win their match? |
|
06 Aug 12 - 03:33 PM (#3386835) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Jack the Sailor I read today that an Algerian runner was disqualified from NOT trying his best in a race that he did not have to run to get to the next round. Apparently his team forgot to withdraw his name after he had qualified with his time in the previous round. Any way you look at it. That ruling is idiotic. Do you have to force him to tire himself and risk injury for a bookkeeping error. Grow up! London Olympic Organizers. |
|
06 Aug 12 - 06:39 PM (#3386929) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Don(Wyziwyg)T There are definitely changes to the system needed. I tend to agree with Nigel re. round robins leading to a draw rather than prefixed matches which could be detrimental. The Algerian runner should have run his best for half a lap, then limped away with a "sore" ankle! Simples. Nonetheless, this was a stupid reaction which should not have occurred. I think it very likely that he was the fifth disqualification of the badminton scandal. Had that not happened, he would have been O.K. Don T. |
|
06 Aug 12 - 06:48 PM (#3386931) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Jack the Sailor Yeah, Don, I think you are correct. The 9th person expelled for badminton. The man should be allowed to conserve his energy strategically. Its not the same as throwing a match for a more favorable draw. LONDON -- Middle-distance star Taoufik Makhloufi of Algeria was expelled from the Olympics for not providing a "bona-fide effort" in his preliminary heat of the 800 meters, having quit in the early going. He joined eight female badminton players who were tossed from the London Games last week for attempting to throw matches to secure a better draw going forward. There were reports indicating that the Algerian team forgot to pull Makhloufi out of the 800, and he had to run the event despite wanting to save his energy for the 1,500 meters. So he ran ... ever so briefly at the Olympic Stadium on Monday morning. PHOTOS: London Olympics - Day 10 The action goes beyond affecting the 800, as Makhloufi had qualified for the 1,500 final on Tuesday and was considered a possible outside medal contender. He won his semifinal heat on Sunday in 3 minutes 42.24 seconds. "The referee considered that he had not provided a bona-fide effort and decided to exclude him from participation in all further events in the competition," said the IAAF statement. |
|
06 Aug 12 - 08:10 PM (#3386962) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Arkie There are quite a few examples of runners not putting full effort into races in qualifying heats. That seems acceptable in track and field. And for years I have been reading about team members setting the pace for another team member who has the best chance to win, and have observed as well runners that start out fast fade after a few laps and finish out the race at their leisure. I think there were several reasons why the term scandal was applied to the badminton players. The players blatant attempt to lose in a sport where it is not expected is certainly one. Another could well be the action of the competitors drew dramatic attention to a flaw in change of rules and the suits on the sidelines were determined to shift the blame away from themselves. The disappointment of the fans is also an element. Those who have watched the badminton players in the past had a much higher degree of expectancy and were not prepared for a change of strategy that developed along with the change of rules. |
|
06 Aug 12 - 08:41 PM (#3386970) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Sandy Mc Lean Boxing was supposed to have been cleaned up after the Seoul Korea scandals but the rot remains. An Italian fighter was awarded a win over a Cuban without hardly landing a punch but holding and wrestling his way through the bout. The ref was dispciable in handling the match and corruption would certainly be suspected by many watching this fiasco. |
|
07 Aug 12 - 02:30 AM (#3387028) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Allan Conn I seem to remember way back in the 1970s in the World Cup the West Germans and Austrians both needed a draw to go through to the next round so just kicked the ball back and forward for 90 mins. There was a huge outcry. So nowadays to minimise the chance of that happening the final games on qualifying groups are played at the same time so it is less likely that someone knows what score would take them through. I'd think for the badminton thing you could either play the decider of one group at the same time as the decider of the other group - or better still do away with the seedings altogether and just make the draw for the next round after all the contestants are through. |
|
07 Aug 12 - 11:46 AM (#3387168) Subject: RE: BS: Olympic Badminton Scandal From: Jack the Sailor Allan, I agree that it would be easy enough to fix. |