So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?

11 Aug 12 - 09:47 PM (#3388964)
Subject: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,Guest

The new (current) management team are keen for as much feedback as possible regarding Sidmouth 2012.

Try to keep it simple and general rather than picky and personal.

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11 Aug 12 - 09:52 PM (#3388966)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,Guest

Whoops - realised I have created a conundrum.

Sidmouth for you must be personal but it is general comments that are the most useful!

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12 Aug 12 - 04:20 AM (#3389038)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Leadfingers

As I was purely fringe , and have been for most of the years I have been performing at The Newt , my comments will be of no interest to 'the committee' .

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12 Aug 12 - 05:41 AM (#3389062)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Big Al Whittle

My first Sidmouth for many years. not as international as I remembered it. It was nice meeting Leadfingers and Acorn 4. Nice to touch base with old mates paul Downes, Alan bell.

There wasn't the sort of stuff that I like at a folk festival - seminars on guitar technique. I thought the craft fair side was a bit crap compared to fylde.

The Duke Open mic was okay, but the PA was inadequate. The open nature of it made it possible for me to turn up and do a spot, but it also made it possible for an umpteen versions of Wonderwall.

I wasn't really tempted - must see -by the acts on offer. Yeh it was all like that really. Everything had the middle class little lion on the shell. The kids busking with the suzuki method violin - these are parents who really have NO idea what being a folk performer means. Says it all really.

In the 1960's and 70's my parents used to urge me to go to Sidmouth FF. But I knew it wasn't Bob Dylan even then. I'd met Ken Penny and his mates at the Jolly Porter, it was a hangout for the students at the Uni and St Lukes - nice kids with University scarves - boys smoked pipes with Holland House and the girls tried to look like Julie Felix. And even then I knew proper folk music had a bit more attitude than that.

And really Sidmouth has stayed in that groove. I doubt any of organisers go to folk clubs. So they wouldn't get to know about that guy who gives slide guitar seminars every year in the backroom of the Steamer at Fylde, outlaw characters like me and Paul Openshaw, or Jack hudson. Its not so much that Sidmouth has lost touch with the roots - it has different roots from the people in folk clubs.

It is what it is. It succeeds in its own terms. Surviving this long as a FF is a great achievement. But I can't see it ever touching base with commonality of English folk.

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12 Aug 12 - 06:05 AM (#3389068)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Dick The Box

As a member of the Blackmore bar staff I found it incredibly frustrating that during the lunchtime/afternoon sessions the tent was practically empty but the gardens themselves were packed. Something must be done to get the punters in but it is next to impossible when there is so much free entertainment in the gardens, I would suggest that the lunchtime and afternoon slots should be open to all on a collection basis. More money would be collected (especially if the stewards were proactive in collecting) than is currently taken in entry fees, plus the bar profits (which in the blackmore all go to the festival) would be massively increased.

On the subject of people in the gardens, why are we not allowed to sell them drink? It is not a problem to get a license as it was done previously but not used. The ham marquee bar sells drink to the public without a problem so why not the blackmore bar? They all bring in drink anyway from supermarkets and other pubs so we are missing a very big trick. It would require minimal internal re-arrangement of the marquee but would massively increase footfall. The amount of money that the festival would gain from doing this would be thousands and thousands of pounds extra profit.

I also think that the festival is suffering generally from too many free ceilidhs, bands and entertainers i.e. at The Anchor and Dukes. You always used to be able to have a good festival as a singer or musician without buying a ticket by going to sessions and singarounds. Now you can do it as Joe Public. Why would you want to buy a season ticket when you can be entertained all week for nothing? You can't do much about private enterprise but letting the Anchor act as a free alternative all week is shooting yourself in the foot. I know that they are a platinum sponsor but I feel that the damage to the festival is not worth the money they put in. Time for a rethink and a scaling back to what it used to be?

Another annual gripe! The Sunday lunchtime battle between traders, dancers and holiday makers took place as usual. It creates bad feeling all round so why can't the road be closed from the Bedford to the Ham from 11 to 2? The dancers could dance on the road and the traders and non-folky strollers could use the promenade. Everybody happy - so why isn't it done?

Didn't see much of the festival apart from the Blackmore. Like most people who get a free ticket I don't actually use it very much! The general impression I got was that there wasn't the buzz or numbers of previous years. I know that the Olympics and the weather have had an effect but I don't think that that the whole story. The line-up wasn't very inspiring, especially with dance display teams. When you look at the line-up that festivals like Shrewsbury put together then Sidmouth needs to really go to town in order to compete. A weeks season ticket ticket might be good value but it is still more expensive than a weekend ticket elsewhere so it needs to be something special to make people want to pay that much!

Generally I think that the organisers have done a good job in getting the festival reined in and under control but there is a severe danger of it slowly dying financially unless a more radical approach is taken. Or maybe the days of week long festivals are over?

At this point I stand back and wait to be shot down :)

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12 Aug 12 - 06:47 AM (#3389077)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Leadfingers

from where I sit , it seemed that there were a lot of people who had bought tickets and or booked accomodation who WERE there for the festival - Several reports about Sold Out concerts - but the fair number who seem to come down 'on spec' and find a campsite out of town , then see where they wanted to spend their time , were put off by the weather forecasts as were a lot of the Day Trippers . Made more sense to save their pennies , stay dry , and watch the Olympics

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12 Aug 12 - 07:06 AM (#3389083)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Morticia

It was quiet and lacking in atmosphere in general. I was actually quite distressed to find out that the bands in the Anchor are sponsored by the festival, I had always imagined the pub paid them. What this means, as anyone who went in would know, was that the Middle Bar Singers were having to compete with heavily amplified noise from the gardens, often not even bloody folk noise, one night it appeared to be Shit Songs from the 70's Night. Surely there are other places more appropriate for that crap?

Now, I'm not stupid, I know the Anchor makes lots more money from the garden stuff and perhaps the festival gets a cut, I don't know? I do know that the singers, who, let's face it chaps, have been keeping the tradition of unaccompanied singing alive for 30 odd years in that pub are a disregarded and disrespected minority, which seems so against what I thought the Spirit of Folk and Folk Festivals WAS all about.

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12 Aug 12 - 08:54 AM (#3389101)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

As a personal comment (and from someone who doesn't drink alcohol) the less that is sold the better, especially in a 'family and children' area such as Blackmore Gardens. Alcohol is maybe something that people are scaling back on in these lean times and (as a general health comment) it would do them no harm to reduce consumption on a permanent basis. This applies particularly to many young people, some of whom suffer liver problems at ages 25 to 30. I'd be happy to see Blackmore Gardens made alcohol free - rather than encouraging consumption merely to bring in a little more money.

The weather was almost ideal for dancing - not hot enough to make people head to the beaches in large numbers.

For serious dancers, the worst aspect of Blackmore Gardens was the appalling floor - covered in staples (all of which should have been removed before dancers started to complain), with various patches (tolerable if unwelcome) and worst of all the awful surface with no slip to it at all. It is a step forward (pardon the pun) for such a large venue to be used for so many social dance workshops but the floor produced dozens of complaints from fellow social and ceilidh dancers who (like me) started to suffer knee problems after a day or two. It was simply not suitable for purpose.

If Sidmouth was a short weekend festival then dancers could tolerate a few dances on such a floor and without injury, but for a week it simply needs to be better quality with a far superior (more shiny) surface and preferably without most of the other imperfections. I've never been to Whitby but one group of dancers told me I should try it as an alternative dance week to Sidmouth: referring to the Blackmore Gardens floor they simply remarked "We don't have rubbish floors like that". Towersey is only a week-end festival yet it often manages to have very good floors.

In contrast, the floor at the new Stowford Rise venue was fantastic. For serious dancers the floor is all important - this is something that maybe the organisers fail to understand. Many people (including me) went home variously injured from spending hours dancing on the Blackmore Gardens floor. Such an experience is hardly likely to encourage people to return. And (despite the fact that the festival organisers may deeply disapprove of the process) we do talk to each other.

There were many other problems (often easily fixable) but it is disappointing that they occur year after year despite being well reported.

As for sponsorship, I don't know what are the cash amounts involved in Platinum/Silver etc levels and how they compare with the net profits made by the various venues and car parks. Only if such figures were made freely available would it be possible to analyse in any detail the extent to which various venues were a net asset to the festival.

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12 Aug 12 - 09:26 AM (#3389105)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

"why can't the road be closed from the Bedford to the Ham from 11 to 2? The dancers could dance on the road and the traders and non-folky strollers could use the promenade. Everybody happy - so why isn't it done?"

Sidmouth Town Council is largely controlled by traders and their allies - they are collectively dim enough to believe that the more cars we have in Sidmouth the more money will be spent hence the more PROFIT they will make. Never mind the environment along the Esplanade which is one reason people come to Sidmouth - to listen to the sea instead of the traffic in central Birmingham.

The Drill Hall (used by the festival in the old days) may be demolished to make way for yet more car parking as in interim measure before flats are bullt there. There is a small group in Sidmouth fighting this - but they don't maybe realise that all public consultation exercises are a sham and the decisons as to what to do will have already have been made.

Closing the Esplanade to all but essential traffic (which would be limited to 3 mph) during all of all summer days at least would be a good idea - but one of our local county councillors (recently disqualified for being a drunk driver) is dim enough to believe that closing the Esplanade to traffic would make Sidmouth seafront 'die' - she really has said that more cars means more people means more life around. Faced with such mindsets - and a local population that would vote for a stuffed pilchard if it had a blue rosette, little progress is likely to be made.

I'll shut up now.

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12 Aug 12 - 09:41 AM (#3389107)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

"More money would be collected (especially if the stewards were proactive in collecting)"

I believe it is actually illegal to rattle a collecting tin or bucket. Apparently it counts as intimidation and/or begging. There was a long discussion about this in Sidmouth many years ago, and I beleive the law is unchanged.

You are allowed to stand still and look appealing and to hold out the tin (or bucket) but not rattle it or ask for donations.

As with motorhomes parked all the way up the Bickwell Valley or amplified music at various places, the law is never likely to be enforced in FolkWeek, but that is the position as I understand it.

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12 Aug 12 - 09:48 AM (#3389109)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Dick The Box

To follow up on Steve's comment about alcohol, the bar sells as much non-alcoholic drink as alcoholic. If the bar was opened up to customers outside of the marquee then I would expect as many, if not more, non-alcoholic sales. The bar is run extremely professionally, with rigorous ID checking, and in all the years I have been on the volunteer bar staff we have never had a problem with drunkenness and bad behaviour. I see the bar as a service to the festival goers and a means of raising money for the festival, and if we can do more in both areas then I think that would be a good thing. Better they buy from a well run festival bar than from the Coop.

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12 Aug 12 - 09:53 AM (#3389112)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Dick The Box

Regarding the collecting, if it is a collection at a concert i.e. not on a public highway, then I do not see how it can be illegal? Maybe a lawyer amongst our readers could comment. I merely meant that leaving a bucket on the side for people to ignore is not as good as going round the event or approaching them face-to-face as they come in.

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12 Aug 12 - 03:17 PM (#3389239)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

Selling only inside the venue surely keeps most litter, glasses, beakers etc largely contained. Selling more widely might mean people expect somewhere to sit with their drinks (and Blackmore Gardens is pretty full now!) If the trade was brisk it might upset the pubs who sponsor the festival - but by how much in relation to their trade? You'd also surely increase the litter clearing problem within the Gardens. And some families may welcome the 'alcohol free' ambience.

Soft drinks sales might conflict with the lemonade sellers too? They have to pay a tidy sum for their pitch?

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12 Aug 12 - 06:41 PM (#3389335)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler

I must say that I appreciated the Anchor dance sessions. Good bands, good callers, and I donated what I thought was value for our enjoyment! I found that many events, especially the evening ones, were very expensive by my own lights and some of the dance selection was rather precious, eg an evening of dances chosen because they were named after people or places.
On the other hand, the Radway was as enjoyable and as sociable as ever. I onjly wish our local session was as inclusive. Oh, well there's always next year .... ..

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12 Aug 12 - 08:04 PM (#3389371)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,Tatterfoal

The new dance venue was good for dancing but felt totaly devoid from the festival and the £4 each way did not go down well, also waiting for the bus put us back into Sidmouth after all the sessions were winding up, after our first excursion there we made a point of staying away so as not to encourage any repeat. If the ceilidh dancers want a good floor put them in the Stowford and put Contras on in the Blackmore no complaints from any of these dancers.

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13 Aug 12 - 07:52 AM (#3389535)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,moira(flyingcat)

well, I had a brilliant time at Sidmouth,no complaints. All the events I would normally attend were fantastic and I am already looking forward to next year.

I don't think there were quite as many people around and I agree the recession and the olympics were a big influence on attendance.

There will always be some things that need a bit of tweeking but I hope those of you who have fed back here notify the festival organisers on the feedback forms.
M

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13 Aug 12 - 10:13 AM (#3389591)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: melodeonboy

I had a great time, as always.

As above, I also feel that the amplified sound from the garden of the Anchor is disruptive when you're trying to listen to an unaccompanied singer in the Middle Bar sessions.

I don't quite get Al's point about the festival only being for middle-class people or that the people who attend don't usually go to folk clubs. I can only speak for the people that I know, but I meet a lot of people there that I know from Kent, and every single one of them regularly attends one or more local folk clubs in Kent. And they're certainly not all middle-class!

By the way, I thought the refurbishment of the Bedford was a bit naff; especially the lighting!

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13 Aug 12 - 10:36 AM (#3389600)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Tattie Bogle

The Bedford new decor was very bland (grey and white), and while it looked otherwise very smart, the "opening up" effect on the room made it much more noisy (from those by the bar!) for those of us trying to play, or especially, sing, at the session end of the room. I therefore went there much less often than I used to. I really enjoyed Rosie's sessions at the York and Faulkner, which I went to most night after concerts: a wide variety of songs and tunes with a listening audience, but no shortage of fun and banter!
Mornings were for workshops: John Kirkpatrick's and Nick and Mary Barber's both being excellent, lunchtimes for the Middle Bar singing - and yes, that music in the Anchor Gardens is FAR TOO LOUD! (and not just because it interrupts our singing). Hope they issue the dancers with ear plugs if they don't want to sustain noise damage to their ears!
Enjoyed all the concerts I went to: didn't buy a season ticket this year as we had to go home on the Thurs, but between concerts and workshops probably spent nearly as much.
I'd like to commend the support acts, who were really excellent: Phillip Henry and Hannah Martin, The Voice Squad (tho' for me, this concert with Dervish was a double header), and The Finest Kind were all superb. Anyone who didn't bother to arrive until the break missed a real treat.
As usual, there were some difficult choices to make, and sorry if I did not go and see most of my Scottish friends, as I can see them easily enough nearer home. There was one lovely moment in the Bedford when I was playing "Barnyards of Delgaty" on my box, and both Geordie Murison and Joe Aitken walked through - Geordie's face appeared around a pillar, grinning from ear to ear!
And the other surreal moment was coming down to the Anchor ground floor to find ahe usual Irishy session going on right under a huge TV screen where Andy Murray was in the process of beating Federer - tunes went on regardless (shades of the Titanic, except that there was no disaster this time!?)

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13 Aug 12 - 10:42 AM (#3389601)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Will Fly

Well I'm just back from Sidmouth and Exeter after taking a half-share in a B&B with Melodeonboy (thanks Kev - very nice). I went out of curiosity and didn't go to any of the concerts. I had a listen in at some of the sessions and had a little play or three at the Newt under the eagle eye of Leadfingers, so my impressions are, I'm sure, are purely personal, biased and probably not typical.

I walked up to the Radway after dinner one evening - I'd read quite a bit about it - and I frankly thought although some of the playing had some drive to it, a lot sounded uninspired. No-one at that occasion looked as they were moved by the music or even enjoying it. Why, I even looked at the Olympics on the TV - and I hate sport. Ironically, on the way back to the seafront, I heard the strains of "I Heard It On The Grapevine" coming from the Dukes bar. This turned out to be 'Mama Stone's House Band' playing that evening - and a great band it was. The crowd was jumping. Bit of a contrast there... Then I walked past the Black Horse, where a 4-piece rockabilly-style outfit were giving it some welly - full of life, full of fun, full of energy. Not 'folk', I'm afraid.

During the week I kibbitzed on sessions in the Bedford and the Anchor - again very mixed. I was looking for energy, musicianship, fun - and I realise that sessions cater for mixed abilities - but I just didn't have the urge to get in among it all. I'm not making myself out to be any great shakes, by the way, I just expected to see a bit of spirit and I didn't happen to see much of it. Perhaps I went at the wrong times.

However, I did see and hear some great music on the seafront during the day. I was walking back from the Ham about 11 one morning and there was a woman sitting on the low wall and playing the violin. She was superb - beautiful intonation, lovely tone, great playing. I went over and complimented her and asked if she was playing in any of the sessions. She shook her head and said she was down to play for some dancers. I saw her again the same evening, playing across the road from the Bedford, with a guitarist - just as great.

I saw a couple of great Morris teams - one being a blacked-up border team on the seafront with a cracking band behind them - and some good physical rapper dancing near the Ham.

The sun came out on Wednesday, and Thursday was a scorcher (went to Exeter on Friday). The seafront was awash with music and people, traders were trading, and everything looked great. Nice place. I might even go again, but not in folk week. As for alcohol, Doombar at £3.55 a pint is taking the piss, great beer though it is. The non-musical highlight of the week for me was a pan-fried John Dory in Neil's Restaurant. Cheers, Neil!

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13 Aug 12 - 10:44 AM (#3389603)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,FloraG

We went to some of the concerts. The voice squad was the highlight for us with the jazz a close second. The organisation and PA was fine.
I liked the dancing at the anchor -picked up a few tips for my calling.
We went to a session at the Bedford but it was spoiled a bit by some musicians playing too loudly during the singing.   The Swan was better for sessions except for one afternoon when they had a band inside with an over loud base.
I was disappointed by so many stalls down the front selling tat. My memory of the front from a few years ago is of dancing and a few buskers but even more musicians just playing there for the joy of playing. There was not room for that this year.
FloraG

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13 Aug 12 - 11:01 AM (#3389610)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: The Sandman

I find Sidmouth a little bit irrelevant, but I am glad lots of people had a good time, it must be better than sitting in fromnt of a tele watching crap like the olympics, at least people are doing something creative, you know making music, fornicating

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13 Aug 12 - 11:33 AM (#3389622)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Big Al Whittle

Speaking of meals - I had an awful meal in Sidmouth. It sounded great. carbonara pasta with cheese and chicken - sounded really fancy, But the pasta was boiled to slush - really watery and tasteless. you obviously have to know where to go in Sidmouth. Not cheap either - £9.50. A diet coke was £1.70 and he poured a small amount into a glass from a from a quid bottle.

Forget what I said - I was probably going the wrong places and pissed off on account of the meal.

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13 Aug 12 - 11:45 AM (#3389632)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Herga Kitty

Sidmouth has always had a problem finding suitable venues for different kinds of events. There is no point whinging about noise in or from pubs and pub gardens, since these are working pubs not dedicated concert or dance venues - and at least the ceilidhs and concerts in the Anchor garden in particular do include festival guests.

A lot of people come because they enjoy the fringe and are willing to put money in collecting tins. Doing away with free events wouldn't result in increased ticket sales.

Kitty

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13 Aug 12 - 12:41 PM (#3389656)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: The Sandman

There is no point whinging about noise in or from pubs and pub gardens,
why not whinge?, if somebodys experience has been ruined., they are telling the truth, warning people as to what they might expect.
when the efdss started the festival, sidmouth was as dead as a dodo.
as a result of the festivals success, pubs have cashed in on the festival goers, overcharging people for pasta, putting on music that is not compatible with the original festivals aims.

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13 Aug 12 - 12:50 PM (#3389660)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: bubblyrat

We had a great time ,despite the wet weather at the beginning of the week . But Oh dear ! -How the esplanade has changed to what it used to be ( like back in the 60s & 70s ). Far too many stalls nowadays, with the stall-holders' vans clogging up the road, and then there's the misery of the dreaded "Birdie Whistles" . Personal highlights for me were a very good Irish session one afternoon in the Anchor ,several American " Old Time" sessions in the new venue that I / we arranged with Colin in the Bedford , ie his downstairs "Pynes " or "Jack's" Bar : Debbie McClatchie dropped in several times , to our delight ! And , one afternoon ,in the same venue , a brilliant unaccompanied , mainly sea-shanty -type singalong. Perhaps the "Middle Bar " singers would be much happier there ?? The acoustics are good ,and there is room for a large number of singers / musicians.Colin showed his appreciation in the usual way . ie chicken,sausages,chips and jugs of beer ; thanks, Colin !
               I also enjoyed playing for "Wild Thyme" Morris a couple of times , and extra-curricular activities included visits to Seaton Tramway , Exmouth, Bicton Gardens ,and a boat-trip on the " Fanny Bowser" that takes passengers off Sidmouth beach, along the "Jurassic Coast " .And Brass Monkey were superb, as usual , as indeed were Mary Humphries, Anahata ,Nick Barber and Mary Barber, playing on the esplanade . No ,it wasn't the Sidmouth of old, but it was still a memorable experience !

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13 Aug 12 - 01:16 PM (#3389676)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Herga Kitty

GSS - Morticia was whinging that a programmed event in the pub garden was interfering with her enjoyment of a fringe event inside the pub. The ambient noise problem is one that the Middle Bar Singers have had to contend with ever since they (we)started singing in the Anchor, not to mention the noise from people inside the pub until the singing moved upstairs from the bar. It's not a problem that the festival organisers can be expected to remedy. I think the Anchor is currently achieving a reasonable balance between the competing groups of singers, musicians and general public.

Kitty

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13 Aug 12 - 01:40 PM (#3389692)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Leadfingers

Some of the bands in the Anchor Car Park were definately far too loud , as were some of the bands in Dukes . Indoors and 100 yards(ish) away , several times all we could hear was The Bass .

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13 Aug 12 - 02:01 PM (#3389704)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Morticia

I'm so sorry you feel I was 'whinging' Kitty, I thought we had been asked for feedback and I gave mine.

You may feel it is a 'reasonable balance',you are of course entitled to an opinion and I will have the courtesy to respect yours without using such emotive and perjorative terms.

Personally, I fail to see why a folk festival needs to have rock bands, I thought there were lots of festivals all over the country that host rock and even dubious 70's pop. I do not see how they connect with Sidmouth Folk Week, nor why the festival organisers finance said bands and I said so.

For all I know there is good explanation as to why they are there and perhaps if so, someone with better manners might explain it to me. Or not,of course.

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13 Aug 12 - 02:46 PM (#3389728)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Will Fly

Morticia, I was told (by a Sidmouth resident) that the Dukes bar pays for the rock bands itself - they're not part of the official festival - and that the bar makes more money from the music in folk week than in the rest of the year.

Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but that's what I heard.

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13 Aug 12 - 03:12 PM (#3389737)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Morticia

I don't know about Dukes, Will, I was referring to the Anchor, which I am informed, has it's bands paid for by the festival. They are a business and in their shoes, I would take the opportunity to make that kind of money too, I would simply like to know why the Festival organisers think it to be a good idea.

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13 Aug 12 - 04:54 PM (#3389783)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: melodeonboy

Thank you, Tattie Bogle, for reminding me about the York and Faulkner.

Rosie's and Taff's sessions at the York and Faulkner were great. Well run, welcoming, warm, friendly, and with more than a dollop of humour!

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13 Aug 12 - 05:38 PM (#3389792)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: selby

reading this thread, I am thinking of coming to Sidmouth next year for the first time are there any concerts?

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13 Aug 12 - 06:18 PM (#3389802)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Herga Kitty

Sorry Morti, I shouldn't have said "whinging" - and I wasn't in the Anchor every night, so may not have heard the worst of the loud bands!

Kitty

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13 Aug 12 - 06:38 PM (#3389810)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: treewind

Selby - there are concerts all over the place! They haven't been mentioned much here because it seem the majority of mudcatters are more interested in sessions and singarounds on the fringe.

Go to this page on the Festival web siteand download the Full 2012 programme (it's a sizeable PDF) and you'll find what you missed!

Sidmouth is several festivals in one - you can spend all week in singing sessions, or in music sessions, or in concerts, or in dance workshops, or in ceilidhs etc.

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13 Aug 12 - 07:32 PM (#3389821)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Tattie Bogle

I'm with Morticia re the bands in the Anchor Gardens as I indicated in my post above. I was only in the "Middle Bar" at lunchtimes (and I don't think you were there then Kitty, or not often?), so can't speak for the evenings, but I'd love to have had a db meter on the sound that was coming through CLOSED windows - as for what it must have been like out there in the garden, I dread to think! There is just NO NEED for such ramped-up volume: we managed perfectly well 15 years or so ago when I used to go to the Anchor Gardens ceilidhs: we could hear the music and the caller at a much lower level of sound. They should fit noise limiters which would cut them off in full flight if they went over a critical level. If you want to wreck your hearing just keep going to the ceilidhs and Dukes!
Selby, I mentioned concerts too: there are loads of them, in numerous venues. Also forgot to mention the Fay Hield band: what an array of talent! Hubby John Boden, Andy Cutting, Robert Harbron, etc

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13 Aug 12 - 07:34 PM (#3389822)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: The Sandman

I don't know about Dukes, Will, I was referring to the Anchor, which I am informed, has it's bands paid for by the festival. They are a business and in their shoes, I would take the opportunity to make that kind of money too, I would simply like to know why the Festival organisers think it to be a good idea.
Morticia, Idoubt if you will get an answer let alone a logical answer

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13 Aug 12 - 09:51 PM (#3389857)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Big Al Whittle

Sidmouth is a very nice place - why wait til next year. I've always loved the place. theres always some folkmusic in Devon - no need to wait til theres a festival.

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14 Aug 12 - 04:22 AM (#3389894)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Will Fly

Agreed, Al - it looks like a nice place indeed, and I noticed posters for regular music events and sessions in pubs throughout the year. Very tempting to go for a week out of the 'folk season', stay in a good hotel and just enjoy the town and the area.

We took a boat cruise around the 'Jurassic coast' for 45 minutes - calm blue sea, bottle-nosed dolphins, the red cliffs, hot sun - great way to spend part of an afternoon. And the museum, which is getting a new volunteer organiser very soon, was interesting too.

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14 Aug 12 - 04:42 AM (#3389904)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,FloraG

I think I am stating the obvious but the town of Sidmouth, and the folk world in general) need to keep an eye on the overall costs.   Paying for accomodation, parking, tickets, then drinks - ouch.
There are always other festivals.

I think it an excellent idea to ask all sound engineers to keep the noise to a minimum necessary, and remind them frequently.

I should have liked to have come accross Debie Mclatchy in a session -perhaps more of the concert performers could be encouraged to do drop ins as part of the expectation of the festival.   

However, if I could have one thing, clear the front of stalls.
FloraG

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14 Aug 12 - 04:59 AM (#3389912)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: johncharles

up north Doombar is £2 85 a pint. A bargain.
john

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14 Aug 12 - 05:00 AM (#3389914)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: bubblyrat

Yes Flora , but .....Debby was in some way contractually obliged to remain in Sidmouth for the rest of the week after she'd done her concert(s), which is why she came to some of "our" ( I am not an "Old Time" musician per se ,just someone who likes it )sessions. She is a very good fiddle-player too , with an infectious enthusiasm for the music she loves.
                   I , too, went to the Anchor garden and was horrified by the dreadfully loud,distorted ,over-amplified , bass-dominated attempts at Blowzabella-type tunes perpetrated by some indescribably awful band ! The sullen,morose-looking "Security" men ,constantly gazing at the mobile 'phone screens didn't help to lift the occasion ,either.

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14 Aug 12 - 05:03 AM (#3389916)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: bubblyrat

........or indeed "their" mobile 'phone screens !

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14 Aug 12 - 05:22 AM (#3389926)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

I don't drink (so I don't keep abreast of prices) but one chap told me he was never coming to Sidmouth again because lager was £3.65 a pint.

How much was it in Blackmore Gardens?

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14 Aug 12 - 05:38 AM (#3389934)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Dick The Box

No draught lager (can't do everything!) but bottles (selection of 5) were £2.50

Festival ale (Brains IPA) was £3 a pint and the others (Brains SA, Skinners Betty Stoggs and Butcombe) were £3.10 a pint

Also had farmhouse cider at £3 a pint

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14 Aug 12 - 05:54 AM (#3389940)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Acorn4

We normally started with the morning singarounds at the Y and F and finished up there at gone 12.00 doing the rounds of the pubs in between.

If someone would hire out beds or comfortable benches where you could grab a half hour of sleep mid-afternoonish they would make a fortune.

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14 Aug 12 - 06:00 AM (#3389942)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Will Fly

The deckchairs were abundant and reasonably cheap...

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14 Aug 12 - 06:01 AM (#3389944)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

The email addresses for the editor of Set and Turn Single magazine are:

chrisdancing AT aol.com

or use

editor AT setandturnsingle.org.uk

Obviously you remove the AT (and spaces either side) and replace it by @

It is mainly for social dancers and local dance clubs but there is quite a bit of discussion of festivals , especially those (few) where there is a substantial dance element.

The September issue has already gone to press but the copydate for the November issue is 10th October.

If like me you are getting tired of the stupidly loud sound levels of some bands then please write and say so.

Having 500 complaints from Sidmouth residents next year might help too.

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14 Aug 12 - 08:26 AM (#3389995)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,watcher

So far, Steve in sidmouth has complained about having beer in Blackmore (unpaid staff and all profit goes to the festival),
the dance floor (admittedly not perfect but the display sides all coped and the evening ceilidh-goers were tolerant),
and the volume of the rock-style ceilidh bands (which attract a younger audience, and very few bands were deafening, less than the northwest cloggies).
The stewards handled the sitation well, and the bar staff seemed to have equipment to deal with any eventuality and were always cheerful and helpful.

Surely the answer is for him to go to the many "social dance" events at St Teresa's and Stowford Rise where there are excellent permanent floors, cups of tea available, and quiet trios and duos.
Leave us to enjoy our ceilidhs and show our appreciation the efforts of the organisers, stewards and barstaff,

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14 Aug 12 - 09:00 AM (#3390003)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

I thought it wouldn't be long before a pathetic little troll appeared.

His/her errors so far:

I have never complained about beer in Blackmore Marquee - just pointed out it might not be universally welcomed all over the Gardens area. Any type of drink is always a nuisance if spilt on dance floors but it was never a problem in Blackmore.

Blackmore was used extensively for social dance events (workshops etc) because of the smaller venues being too crowded in previous years. There were more 'social dance' hours in there than the evening ceilidh events and probably more social dancers using the venue than ceilidh dancers? So both groups have a right to comment.

As for ceilidh goers being tolerant - depends on who you speak to - just your little in-crowd of fellow trolls presumably?

The floor in St Teresa's is not excellent - it is too hard - but at least it has some spin to it.

There were some complaints (not from me) about excessive volume of one social dance band.

Pleased to see so many people are now complaining about Dukes, Anchor etc and their sound levels.

I prefer to dance mainly ceilidh - so they are 'mine' as much as they are 'yours' little troll.

And I don't generally drink tea either - except on very special occasions of course.

One further complaint - why no chocolate bars (etc) for sale up at Bulverton?

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14 Aug 12 - 09:09 AM (#3390004)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Will Fly

Pleased to see so many people are now complaining about Dukes, Anchor etc and their sound levels.

Not me - I enjoyed the music from the bands at the Dukes - made a change from the mass of folk music being made all over the town as far as I was concerned. And I also enjoyed much of the more traditional music being played around the seafront and elsewhere.

Why come out with remarks like pathetic little troll because someone chooses - without any rudeness - to criticise your opinions? Why so tetchy because someone disagrees with you?

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14 Aug 12 - 09:53 AM (#3390023)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

It was probably the suggestion that I should restrict myself to cups of tea and quiet bands.

In the last few years I have attended about 70 hours of social dance and ceilidh events at Sidmouth each year and wherever possible danced every dance. This year slightly fewer total hours.

Anyone else get close to 70 hours (and dance every dance when you were at the event?)

A few hours of internet banking may have had an effect too.

Maybe I need to get out more.

Too late to organise for Whitby unfortunately.

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14 Aug 12 - 11:10 AM (#3390050)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Tug the Cox

I always find the beer prices in Sidmouth a bit extreme. I live a few miles away in Exmouth where I can always find several puda selling real ale between £1.80 to £2.60.Some creep up to £3.20 but nothing loke the £3.50 standard in Sidmouth....which appears to have a cartel operating.Sidmouth needs a Wetherspoons to promote a bit of price cutting competition.

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14 Aug 12 - 11:49 AM (#3390071)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Leslie Butler

Well I thought it was great. I enjoyed everything I ate and drank, and considered the amplified noise outside the Anchor a useful reminder that this festival is for all tastes; besides a challenge to be triumphantly overcome.
I do feel guilty for not buying a ticket (I prefer sessions), but i did contribute each time the collecting box went around.

Incidentally, I spoke to a taxi driver who reckoned that the festival was popular with local youngsters. I expressed surprise, pointing out that the average age of festival goers was at least 50. Indeed, said the driver, but that brings down the town average by at least 20 for the the week.

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14 Aug 12 - 11:51 AM (#3390072)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Acorn4

Eastbourne is known locally as the "Costa Geriatrica", and I think Sidmouth usually fills that niche in the south west apart from festival week.

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14 Aug 12 - 12:00 PM (#3390073)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Tug the Cox

Sidmouth has nothing on nearby Budleigh Salterton One commentetor suggested "Avoid Budleigh Salterton, at all costs, for if Sidmouth is "Gods waiting room" then Budleigh is the "Annexe". It has been said that "People come to Budleigh to die and ten years later, they have forgotten what they came for"! It is true that all the shop windows are bi-focal.

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14 Aug 12 - 12:35 PM (#3390085)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Dave Earl

Thread drift to be sure but :-

If "Eastbourne is known locally as the "Costa Geriatrica"",it has also been said (was is Noel Coward?). "Newhaven for the Continent, Eastbourne for the incontinent"

Sorry! I'll get me coat

Dave

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14 Aug 12 - 01:17 PM (#3390112)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,Jon Heslop

Re the noise from amplified bands in the evenings in the Anchor garden. I think we're missing the point here. If the Festival management team are subsidising non folk style bands then that money is coming from season ticket holders who have paid a not inconsiderable amount of money to listen to their kind of music. As for the argument that "it will attract people to the festival and to folk music.", b******s!. If you think some lager swilling youth listening to deafening third rate pop covers is going to think, "Oh, this is good, I'll go and listen to some unaccompanied ballads, shanties or whatever", Planet Earth is awaiting your visit.
By the way, I had agreat time.

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14 Aug 12 - 01:46 PM (#3390121)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,Lady Mondegreen

The Anchor books it's own bands for the evening slots. The exception to this was on the final evening where the festival was asked to supply something and organised an extra ceilidh with The Gloworms. Which was well-attended at only a days notice, as it happens.

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14 Aug 12 - 01:55 PM (#3390125)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Will Fly

Although the festival goers may have paid quite a lot for their season ticket, they're not the only people in the town during the festival. The youth of the town - the 'lager swilling youth' you refer to - live there all year round and can't be expected to convert to folk music for the week. The independent pubs which put music on throughout the year - possibly the 'deafening third rate pop covers' you also refer to - have to make a living and keep their clientele as well. I doubt very much that the Black Horse and the Dukes bar were being subsidised by the festival.

The 'third rate' bands I heard were actually bloody good - professional, energetic, musical and obviously very popular with many of the townees and festival-goers alike. You may not like their music or those people, but there's no need to look down your nose at them.

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14 Aug 12 - 02:43 PM (#3390136)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

During the years when asteroid Crump was orbiting Planet Earth (and exerting a disproportionally large gravitational influence), it became policy that yoof of whatever quality (and whether they could dance or sing or not) should be attracted to the festival in order to make it 'multigenerational' and 'inclusive'.

During the same epoch, social dance nearly died (and many of the best dancers have never returned) and ceilidhs became such a pathetic standard that Sidmouth became an 'also ran' - whereas it used to be amongst the best and with many dancers able to master quite complicated dances. Imagine anyone trying that now.

Talented young singers and musicians used to find a place (and an audience) on the Esplanade and along the streets of the town. Now it is dominated by cheap tat and loud often non-folk music.

At my local club I sometimes teach and call Richard Mason dances (he lives in Exeter and teaches Exeter Univ. Folk Dance Club). They are challenging, a bit different and most of my club members can do them easily enough. So can many dancers at other public dances in the area.

It would be a joke to try them at most Sidmouth ceilidhs - which is a pity because the standard may continue to decline unless corrective action is taken. The principal point of discussion amongst groups of local dancers after the festival is how many of the best dancers were NOT there - fellow locals as well as once familiar faces from afar.

The sound level from bands also increased considerably when the asteroid was briefly in Earth orbit. There might be a causal connection.

As a suggestion, could we have a sort of reverse silent LNE on a few nights, and maybe a similar event in Blackmore Gardens? A really good dance band (Old Swan, Tickled Pink, Hekety to name but three) would be compelled to play at a reasonable volume all night, and at a further reduced level from 1am to 2am.

Any people who really WANTED the music much louder would be able to hire amplifying headphones that were powerful enough to induce hearing impairment - this setting would be used only by the really manly yoof (IQ = 57 maximum) who had something to prove (and probably something illegal in their bloodstream).

The same people cruise around in cars with 400 watt amplifiers in the boot. Later, when they become mature at the age of 46 they become wannabe sound engineers on the festival circuit.

It would be interesting to see how many dancers actually WANTED to amplify the dance music to headbanging and ear splitting levels, compared with the number who were perfectly content to dance to good music that was loud enough to generate a real atmosphere but not stupidly loud.

As for improving the standard of ceilidh dance, how about taking three or four groups of 8 or 10 young non-expert dancers, teaching them intensively and including several complex dances and having a competition on the last day? The best set to do not only the dances they have practiced but a few more besides, would get reduced price tickets next year.

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14 Aug 12 - 02:59 PM (#3390142)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Chris_S

I thought it was a great year. Unlike most people here we had season tickets and found we really wanted to do 3 concerts a day to see the artists we were interested in so used Kenaway House, Bedford and Ham concert venues. Lots of great performances and many new discoveries. Too many to list all but stand outs were Mawkin (great musicinaship and energy), Jonny Kearney and Lucy Farrell (utterly beguiling), Oyster Band and June Tabor (just brilliant), Martin Simpson (wonderful guests and stunning playing), Old Man Ludecke (fab story telling and stage presence), Whapweazel (blew cobwebs away), Telling the Bees (wierdly wondeful), Anahata and Mary Humphries (great songs and playing), Stream of Sound (joyful and uplifting). I'm sure there are more but my over riding memory is amazement at the quality of the performances we saw. I love the newish Kenaway concert venue (under the guiding hand of Ian Anderson of FolkRoots for the afternoons). Beer was cheap enough at the venues and I was amazed that most did not charge anything for a pint of soda water which was my usual tipple. 10 days that just flew by, definately will be returning.

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15 Aug 12 - 04:27 AM (#3390349)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,FloraG

Steve - diverting from the title - can I get hold of some Richard mason dances - I'm always on the lookout for a few new good ones?

Been thinking about the problem of the Anchor - is there no other venue the unaccompanied singers can go to as the back of the pub is so ideal for public dances ( both to watch and join in). I know they might argue squatters rights - but times move on.
FloraG

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15 Aug 12 - 04:33 AM (#3390350)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: bubblyrat

Glad that you enjoyed it Chris ! So did we ,and yes !...the ten days passed quickly for us,too.But I don't think we'll be staying at Salcombe Regis campsite again ; it's getting old (over 60 years now ?) and tired and run-down , with lots of loud music from the "Fringe Festival" close by , and the bloody donkeys were braying all night long. We like the look of the Axemouth site near Seaton .

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15 Aug 12 - 04:44 AM (#3390353)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: bubblyrat

Flora
    I have already suggested the downstairs bar (Pyne's) at the Bedford ; it is certainly more than big enough,and the acoustics are great for Middle Bar type music . I believe that it may well have been used by the MBS in the past ? I played in there every day of the week last week ; a lot of "Old Time" , with ladies "clogging" on boards ( Colin made one for us !!) ; we even had a long unaccompanied shanty-session ( instruments banned ) ,run by a man from "oop North " ) on Thursday or Friday (I forget which) and it was marvellous ! And not a melodeon or an electric bass to be seen or heard !

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15 Aug 12 - 05:07 AM (#3390358)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST

Flora G - try contacting him through his band website -
http://www.pigsmightfly.info/richard.htm

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15 Aug 12 - 07:24 AM (#3390398)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

Flora G:

There are dozens of websites detailing dances - for example, try Colin Hume's site for some interesting ones!

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15 Aug 12 - 01:10 PM (#3390536)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,Tatterfoal

I was in the Bedford for the unaccompanied session and I agree it is ideal, having sung in the Anchor and been disapointed with the sound from Anchor Gardens it was great to start a session in a smallish room with other good singers around, only get this opportunity at Sidmouth.

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15 Aug 12 - 02:08 PM (#3390576)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,john presscot

Sidmouth for me this year was half and half compared to last year i seen a lot of acts and really tired myself out BUT what i really missed was the UNIQUE SINGING of Thomas McCarthy & the VIRTUOSO UILLEANN PIPING of Simon Doyle & we cannot forget the very TALENTED playing of the YOUNG & VIBRANT Doyle girls why O why were they not here again this year or is it because theese performers are Irish Travellers is there a hint of rascism in the higher ranks of the allmighty I CERTAINLY HOPE NOT!

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16 Aug 12 - 04:27 AM (#3390804)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,FloraG

Thanks for the advice on calling. I work with a group who I think are mostly there as a keep fit exercise, a few are deadicated dancers and a few come because they kindly say they like the live music I play while calling.
FloraG

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16 Aug 12 - 06:53 AM (#3390835)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,Jemma Gurney

FloraG - Do you know about the eceilidh discussion list? Richard Mason and a lot of the callers on the circuit are on there, as well as enthusiastic dancers and band members. It's an email group rather than a webpage forum like this.

http://www.cix.co.uk/~net-services/ec/

Jemma
Trinculo ceilidh band, Pecsaetan Morris

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16 Aug 12 - 07:56 AM (#3390856)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: JHW

In case anyone missed me from the evenings at the York and Faulk I got so tired from campsite noise that I left and went walking in the Howgills. Never a prob before at Kingsdown but dickhead style bump bump stuff going on to the early hours then radio at 7. Knackered so left. I was sitting in things trying to keep awake like as if I was on a course!
The Middle Bar Singers sessions were way better crushed in that mezzanine basement than now upstairs but they certainly didn't deserve to compete with amplifiers outside, I left after once round the room - and I thought too that the Anchor paid for all the shows they put on?

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16 Aug 12 - 08:04 AM (#3390860)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work

I thought the campsite with it's very limited car movements allowed stood up to the copious amount of rain remarkably well - very little mud. toilets and showers were kept in tip top condition.

Some excellent concerts and I love the new ham marquee they've got but I was disappointed with the artists playing the smaller venues as none of them really attracted me. (NB not that I think they are bad or anything - just not my cup of tea).

Beer in the Blackmoor marquee seemed cheaper than elsewhere and the pubs seemed to charge as much or more than the venues which I found surprising.

Not my favourite Sidmouth ever but up there.

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16 Aug 12 - 08:07 AM (#3390861)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Will Fly

JHW - one very useful thing to take with you if you can't sleep in a noisy environment - campsite, bedroom next to road, seagulls, etc. - is a pair of mouldable earplugs. You can get them from Boots and other chemists - roll each plug between the palms to make them soft and then push them into the ears so that they fit all crevices. They might seem a little uncomfortable at first but you get used to them - and they're very effective.

A must for the traveller.

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16 Aug 12 - 09:33 AM (#3390887)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Essex Girl

I stewarded the Ham again and almost all of the concerts, and there were 3 a day, were well attended and some were completely sold out. I did find that after the weekend the town was quieter than usual but that was only to be expected given the Olympics, weather forecasts and the recession, but I still had a great time even though I didn't manage to get to all the events I would have liked.The weather was kind to us - fabulous from Thursday to Saturday - so managed to sing in the sea and swim again on the Friday. The only complaint we had, as it seems do many others was the rip off prices some of the pubs charged. How can one pub sell a pint of local beer for £3.00, and another for £3.50? The festival venues were cheaper and had a good range of beer and cider. I appreciate the views on the Blackmore Bar, we would have used it but my partner did not have a festival ticket so we couldn't, unlike the Ham bar.
I'll still be back next year!!

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16 Aug 12 - 10:22 AM (#3390902)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Tug the Cox

Dave Earl....the original was the railway sign at Harwich....which reads.'Harwich for the Continent' to which a wag appended...Frinton for the incontinent.

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16 Aug 12 - 10:54 AM (#3390912)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Jack Campin

How can one pub sell a pint of local beer for £3.00, and another for £3.50?

Easily if most of the clientele is from big cities. Those are normal Edinburgh prices.

I don't drink enough for it to make any difference.

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16 Aug 12 - 11:50 AM (#3390942)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Girl Friday

I have filled in the feedback form, though it gives too much space over to Headers and questions. I'd like to see at least half a page given to feedback . I note that the workshop questionnaire's are two to a page, and suggest using the other side for comments . Perhaps seperating the feedback sheet from the newsletter might be better. I went to one concert at The Ham, "The Pauper's Path to Hope", which was exremely good. The rest of the time was spent at Fringe venues. The best one for me is The York and Faulkner for its variety, its friendliness, its humour, and its reasonably priced beer. Also enjoyed the Newt sessions, and the Middle Bar, when not drowned out by the muzak in the garden. Did not get round to doing Duke's open mic. but we don't cover Wonderwall. Made a point of going around the back of Duke's of a night time to avoid the crowds, and the noise . When will soundmen learn to use p.a. systems properly ? Thumping bass is not good sound. The quietest spots were to be find along the riverside . The seafront is hopeless to play on during the day . Too many amplified buskers !

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16 Aug 12 - 11:51 AM (#3390944)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Dave Earl

Alright Mr lewis so it wasn't who I thought it was but it got localised in Sussex cos you can get to the Continent from Newhaven

Dave

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16 Aug 12 - 12:53 PM (#3390969)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Richard Bridge

Sue:

Thumping bass can be great in the right time and the right place.

I cannot understand why amplified buskers are permitted.

You should get Clive Lever's words to Wonderwall - some wonderful bits

All the words that Liam sings are whiny
The talents of the other guys are tiny"

And

"Wonderwall
It means bugger all"

And

"Maybe
Both the Gallagher brothers are crazeee"

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16 Aug 12 - 06:44 PM (#3391116)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Girl Friday

Ah yes, I'd quite forgotten that magical song. Thanks for reminding me of it.

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16 Aug 12 - 07:32 PM (#3391133)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Tug the Cox

I know, Dave..arrived there in a terrible storm in the seventies on the last boat out of Dieppe for a week.

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20 Aug 12 - 08:03 AM (#3392618)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: JHW

Will Fly thanks for the plug tip. I did have a couple of packs of industrial ones probably like your description but somehow they'd escaped from the camping box. I wasn't dismayed at leaving. Went walkies a few days in the Howgills, then a few days at Edinburgh.

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25 Aug 12 - 07:42 PM (#3395126)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Tattie Bogle

Dave and Tug: the sign was actually at Manningtree Station, which is on the line from Colchester to Harwich and Frinton.
And when I lived in Torquay and Teignmouth in the 70s, it was also known there as the "Costa Geriatrica"!

FloraG: I think the Middle Bar Singers woud be reluctant to leave the Anchor after well over 30 years there: it was a huge, but inescapable decision, to move to the upstairs room when the mezzanine was no longer available. There were then some occasional "soundspill" problems from the ceilidhs in the back yrd, but nothing like the levels or persistence reached now!

And as Jack says, drinks prices were pretty much as (or less than) those of us who live in Scotland's wonderful capital have to pay: and the cider was so much better and NOT chilled out of existence - great!

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25 Aug 12 - 07:46 PM (#3395130)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Leadfingers

Lots of peeps coming into The Newt for their beer , then heading for The Anchor - Branoc at £3

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28 Aug 12 - 11:07 PM (#3396790)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,SoundMan

Hi..I am the sound Engineer at the Anchor Gardens during the Folk Festival and came across this thread and thought I ought to clear up a few misconceptions.
The PA system and myself are paid for by the Anchor Inn, NOT by the Folk Festival.
Whilst most of the acts are programmed by the festival the Soul/Covers band referred to by some people was programmed and paid for by the Anchor Inn, as was clearly stated in both the program and billboards at the venue.
As to whether some of the other acts are appropriate at a folk festival that issue would need taking up with the festival organisers. My own opinion is that just because music is played on acoustic guitars, violins etc it does not necessarily make it folk music.
The volume of the music seems to be an issue with some people, this is something I am very aware of, especially as being an open air venue the sound is not contained just to the area of the venue. Bass in particular will always be an issue, as the long wavelengths of bass frequecies are omnidirectional and cannot be focused into just the area of the venue, unlike the top frequecies which are focused into a 120 degree arc in front of the stage. There is a new development of cardoid bass speaker arrays, but these are very elaborate and expensive. The volume level is also something I try to keep appropriate to the music being played and the audience. The Anchor is a free public venue open to all, and is used as a social gathering and drinking place for locals, day visitors and holidaymakers, as well as for festivalgoers, it is NOT a dedicated festival venue, this does mean that volume levels often have to be higher than I would use at a dedicated closed venue like the Ham where the audience sit in silence and listen to the music. Also the ground slopes down away from the stage area, so once the venue gets busy and bodies start absorbing the higher frequencies I do have to turn those frequencies up a little in order for them to get to the back clearly, this can result in a slightly harsher sound close to the speakers, I try and keep a compromise that is acceptable to all those in the venue. The overall volume level is essentially governed by the nature of the music being played and the audiences response to it. An acoustic duo playing ballads being listened to by a quiet sit down audience will be at a low level, whilst a large band playing Folk Rock to a large standing/dancing audience will be at a high level. The fact that ceilidh and folk bands bands that seem to get the best response from the Anchor audience fall into the latter category and so form an increasing part of the repetoire is something which I know more traditional folkies may have a problem with, but the audience vote with their feet, and those bands get the best overall response at the Anchor, especially for the evening concerts, we even had bands that played earlier in the week as acoustic acts turn up later in the week having gathered extra musicians with drums and an amplified rhythm section, or a horn section. Personally I enjoy many of these modern variations to the traditional folk theme, though one of my favourite bands of the week was the medieval music band, Revellion, who were one of the more traditional bands of the week and thus did not require playing at a high volume.
It needs to be remembered that folk music is an ever evolving music genre, and that whilst the past must be respected, appreciated and kept alive, if it tries to preserve itself in aspic, allowing only music approved by Martin Carthy and the songs of Cecil Sharpe, lovely as they are, it will stagnate, and that as younger people and those from other musical genres discover folk music they will add their own interpretions to it, as well as bringing in the use of different or more modern instruments and sound systems. This may not always be a welcome addition for those more accustomed to the traditional folk scene, but undoubtedly at one time quill was put to parchment and a missive despatched to Ye Olde Folk Monthly, bemoaning the awfull intrusion of polyphony into plainsong.

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29 Aug 12 - 04:33 AM (#3396861)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,FloraG

Soundman- I thought your mix was very nice. I know its a mater of skill but also judgement. There were lots of people at the dances obviously enjoying themselves and I could hear the caller clearly. It is a big area to work.
I was not so impressed with the PA by a band in the Swan which was indoors and a bit over loud.
I did suggest that the middle bar singers could move elsewhere as there are quite a few pubs in the area. Someone else suggested the front room at the Bedford. Although there are lots of pubs there are not many open areas such as at the back of the anchor.
FloraG

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29 Aug 12 - 10:02 AM (#3396995)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Girl Friday

Soundman- thanks for explaining this to us. I am especially grateful for the explanation of why bass is so dominant. The upstairs room at The Anchor gets so hot (even with the fans on) that windows do need to be slightly open. I think that the only solution for the Middle Bar Sessions, is to move them to a quieter venue, but I don't think the Bedford's front room is the answer. There are too many music sessions in the pub. (not a criticism at all, just an observation with regard to unaccompanied singing.)

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29 Aug 12 - 03:30 PM (#3397162)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST

I think I have stumbled onto a thread about a different Sidmouth Folk Festival. The one I went to was great - nicely sized venues like Kennaway House, bigger ones like the concert tent on the Ham, amazing late night ceilidhs up the hill at the Bulverton. Some of the best folk musicians from Britain and beyond playing at them, everything from the return to health and performing of Norma Waterson to exciting new bands like Telling The Bees. Lively dance displays, old grannies careering around the streets on motorised shopping trollies. Some really good instrument stalls. Lots of young people. Lots of sessions chugging along for older people who'd rather spend their money on beer, but they don't bother the festival goers.

You lot should try the Sidmouth I go to a change. It's in south Devon the first week in August. I didn't hear anybody moaning about events they didn't have to pay to get into the whole week.

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30 Aug 12 - 11:50 AM (#3397596)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,Simon

I really enjoyed this years festival as I have done many previous years. There were some fantastic concerts at the Ham which I really enjoyed and some fun sessions to play in. Definitely had no issue with the volume at the ceilidh's and I found the novice dancers added to the fun.

I do have some things which I think need adressing.

Firstly contrary to other posters I think there isn't enough focus on bringing younger people to the event. I was there with my partner both of us are in our (ahem) mid 30's and nine times out of ten we were the youngest in the room by some way. It was only when we attended the late night extras that we didn't feel this. I'm not saying that Sidmouth should sacrafice everything it is to encourage a younger audience but certainly to avoid it dying off there needs to be work done to bring down the average age attending.

The non-Ham concert programme I felt was quite weak this year I spent a lot more time in the Ham than I did previous years just because the alternatives just didn't appeal.

The campsite was fine, one thing that niggled was why have one womens shower block and a mens shower block and a non designated block which due to positioning got hijacked by the womens queue. It surely makes sens to just have three non designated blocks.

Hope this helps.

S.

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30 Aug 12 - 03:17 PM (#3397723)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

Some comparisons to Towersey festival: there were three shower blocks near the main campsite and each shower had its own entrance to outdoors and its own small changing area inside the cubicle. So there was no problem with forming one long mixed sex queue. At peak times, a 45 minute wait. At other times, just walk straight in. It worked well enough.

An instruction had been issued to the sound crew in the Towersey ceilidh tent to limit the volume of all bands to a reasonable level - and what a difference it made! All the dancers I spoke to loved it. Even bands I usually avoid because they are so loud were quite enjoyable. So compliments all round to the sound crew and to the venue managers. And the dance floor in the Towersey ceilidh marquee was superb all weekend. Made up from varnished 8' by 4' sheets of plywwod I counted 13 wide and 7 long - or 52' by 56'. It was one of the best I have danced on but it was packed well beyond a sensible capacity at times and with far too many young muppets who couldn't even do a grand chain.

A large number of young people do attend Sidmouth FolkWeek - it's just that maybe they don't attend so many of the events, except perhaps at the Bulverton? Maybe it's seen as a seaside camping and drinking holiday with evenings of headbanging music and dance thrown in and with little interest in any of the 'real' folk events in town? There is so little opportunity now for young musicians to busk on the seafront - they have to compete with the traffic and the traders.

The large number of 'novice' dancers at some Towersey ceilidhs (as at Sidmouth) were a distinct nuisance - and not only I thought so. They need to learn but they don't bother to attend the scheduled learning workshops (either at Sidmouth or at Towersey) and in packed evening ceilidhs they don't even listen to the caller. A minority however were very good - and with parents who had obviously coached them and encouraged a genuine interest in learning to dance.

For every person who thinks the official Sidmouth campsite is 'fine' I get many enquiries asking for recommendations of alternatives. The Towersey site was not perfect - the farmers had not cut the grass owing to appalling summer weather - but as it didn't rain much the whole weekend and the ground is so well drained and largely flat, the long grass was not a problem. The festival also had extensive all-weather walkways - something that both Sidmouth and Towersey have devoted effort to getting right.

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30 Aug 12 - 03:59 PM (#3397755)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Richard Bridge

Hmm. Is Deafass alive and well?

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30 Aug 12 - 08:45 PM (#3397864)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST

The large number of 'novice' dancers at some Towersey ceilidhs (as at Sidmouth) were a distinct nuisance

Yes, it's so tiresome when young people want to enjoy themselves. I have a great idea, a separate tent for something called "dances for dancers" where older people who only want to do it "properly" to a quiet band can have the place to themselves. Then all those terrible young "muppets" who've paid money to have fun can get on with it without spoiling it for the minority.

Can't imagine why nobody thought of that before. Oh, and they could invite a princess to be their patron too . . .

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31 Aug 12 - 04:20 AM (#3397963)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,FloraG

A good caller should be able to assess the dance level and call appropriately. I think as callers its easy to assume too much. eg right and left hand star - just try putting both hands in! Also - to advise people - this is an energetic dance/ leave your partner dance/ difficult for beginners dance. With a live band often you can enjoy yourself just listening to the music so its OK to sit out a dance.

I always aim to be a good caller and sometimes succeed, and I'm lucky that the band will often say ' a better way to describe that might have been' There is no ' caller training' as such - perhaps there is a gap in the market .

Recently there was a thread about where the young people are and some suggested it was lack of welcome and tolerance that put them off. I did not think to include about how to welcome novices to a dance.
Is this a thread in its own right?
FloraG

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31 Aug 12 - 07:14 AM (#3398016)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: GUEST,SoundMan

Thank You FloraG..I am glad you enjoyed the mix, I will be the first to admit its not always ideal, as you may have noticed due to the permanently open to the public nature of the venue, and the short changeover times, I don't get to do a proper soundcheck, at best its a quick line check, balance check and then go, the first time the audience get to hear the band play properly is also the first time I do, so the first few songs of the set are essentially the soundcheck, and the mix can be a bit rough at first. Unless I have been given specific instructions, or have an associate of the band on hand, I have to second guess what I think the band want to sound like. During the brief line/balance check I tend to concentrate more on getting the foldback mix, that the band hear in their monitors, right for them, my theory being that if the band can hear themselves they will play better and more cohesively, which should then make the job of getting a good front of house mix for the audience easier, as if a band isn't making a cohesive sound no amount of knob twiddling is ever going to make it sound good.
The sound for a band playing at the ceilidh dances will often be different from the same band playing a concert, as I try and find the instrument playing the rhythm that the dancers are dancing to, often its the melodeon, and have that a little higher in the mix, so the dancers can keep time easier. I feel this is especially important at the Anchor, as the dancers there are often less well practiced, many being holidaymakers 'giving it a try', there are often many children, and also more alcohol may have been consumed by the participants than at other venues. For the same reason I also have the caller a louder than may be normal, so the dancers can hear the instuctions clearly above the music and general noise of the pub, to try and avoid a 'train wreck' on the dance floor, especially given the unforgiving and less than ideal tarmac surface.
I feel sorry for groups such as the middle bar singers as they are having to compete against an increasingly 'heavier' sound from both the ceilidh and the concert bands and even some of the buskers. In the short time I have been working at Sidmouth I have noticed the bands having a more amplified and bass heavy nature. Whether that is a general shift in the folk world as younger people more used to that sound come into it, or because those type of bands often work better at the Anchor, because of the mixed nature of the audience, and so get programmed there more often, I can't really say. As the festival takes place across the whole of Sidmouth, there may be a case for having certain areas of the town and certain venues set aside and dedicated to unnaccompanied and unamplified singing and music, away from the louder venues. I don't know how much use is made of the Connaught gardens bandstand at the folk festival, but that would be an ideal outdoor venue for some of the quieter acoustic acts, and is well away from any interfering background noise.

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31 Aug 12 - 07:32 AM (#3398025)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

There was little wrong with any of the callers at Towersey. One or two rather like the sound of their own voices - we stand around whilst tiresome joke after joke is endured (and we've heard them all before), others like Nick Walden talk very fast (but very clearly) and you just have to listen. But with so many inexperienced dancers and/or people who won't or don't listen, nothing but simple dances can ever be called with any expectation of success - which is rather a shame because people never experience anything else. Most of the experts at Towersey huddle in their own corner of the dance floor - surely they must be bored sick of such simple repetition? There wasn't a single ceilidh dance at Towersey I couldn't do in my sleep.

There is a thought provoking letter in the latest EDS - suggest you read it or if you don't have access I can put it on my website for a few days. A frustrated young woman asks at a wedding dance "Do you do any dances without rules?' She was having problems doing a simple figure of eight.

So let's throw away the rules for dances and do any old thing we feel like - and maybe musicians could do the same? Then we'd all be free of any need to learn anything. Oh and let's throw away the Highway Code as well. It would be so much more fun on the roads.

The point is really that once youngsters do bother to learn a few basics they enjoy themselves far more - and are less of a nuisance to experienced dancers. Many times I have rapidly explained moves to groups of youngsters - and most respond very positively to being told how to get it right (even if I do snap at them to shut up and listen).

The problem is that they seem not to want to put in any effort to learn - by attending the workshops that are aimed specifically at beginners. Often these are populated more by experienced dancers who go along to help new comers - but there are so few there to help! Maybe the problem is that these workshops (eg session 103 at Towersey) are often held early mornings when youngsters are still in bed? But the equivalent session at Sidmouth (session 102) was at 2.45pm with Kerry Fletcher. There were only 21 people these to start with increasing to 30+ in a hall capable of taking 70+ - and there were hardly any youngsters.

Maybe an extended three or four hour 'learn and practice' session on the first evening instead of a normal opening ceilidh might attract more of them? Learn simple moves in the first half hour, do simple dances for half an hour, learn more moves, do more advanced dances, build up to quite complex dances at the end of the four hours?

I'll volunteer to do the teaching (free of charge) and some calling of the more complex dances. Someone else can call the simple dances while I partner some newcomers.

And don't say I never make positive suggestions!

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31 Aug 12 - 05:10 PM (#3398281)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Big Al Whittle

I thought it was one of the nicest things about Sidmouth - seeing children and people who had never danced before -'having a go'.

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01 Sep 12 - 09:13 AM (#3398584)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: VirginiaTam

I am still sorry I missed it. Very unwell. :-( Hoping next year I am feeling better.

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05 Sep 12 - 05:00 PM (#3400500)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: melodeonplayer

Dear Steve of Sidmouth,
For your information, because you seem to think that a band (namely Tickled Pink) is responsible for "ramping" up the sound levels at its gigs, at the gig in question, we made no request for the levels to be raised during the gig. This decision was made entirely by the engineer on the night, based on the reaction of the audience.
You imply that people left because of the volume. I can inform you that from the stage it was apparent that numbers only increased throughout the evening.
I thank you for your comment about us being a fine ceilidh band, but by its very nature Tickled Pink is a rock band that requires a certain PA level to balance out the volume of the drums acoustically.
Can i also politely point out that throughout any tickled pink gigs we are always safely within the designated volume levels set out by the relevant authorities. being 98db average throughout the period of the gig.
I hope you will desist from constantly having a dig at us when many bands in other venues at other festivals this year play at much greater volume. After 21 very successful years as a band, i am afraid you appear to be in a very small minority.
Yours sincerely
Simon Care

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07 Sep 12 - 05:28 PM (#3401453)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: Steve in Sidmouth

If other bands are louder than you are then they will be keeping even more people away. At your Exeter ceilidh last year(?) (Great Western) the organisers asked me as I walked in if I knew it was you and did I have my earplugs?!

As it happens you were fine for a while - very good music, then it got too loud to make dancing comfortable. Dancers by and large don't want the same volume as kids who want to be blown out of their minds.

I can assure you people do stay away. I'm writing up more comments on Sidmouth and other festivals in due course and you are free of course to disagree as you wish.

There is little logic in some of your statements but I'll leave those for now.

regards.

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07 Sep 12 - 05:58 PM (#3401466)
Subject: RE: So how was Sidmouth 2012 for you?
From: melodeonplayer

Hi Steve,
Well, in response, i would rather have a room full of "kids" dancing to us than someone as obviously unhappy about the volume as yourself, so in future do me a favour and don't bother coming to any more of our gigs. Reading some of your rants, it strikes me that you have no/little interest in english ceilidh being open to anyone who feels like having a go at it. Which goes completely against everything i believe. It is not an elite sport for a few self proclaimed experts.
Regards
Simon

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