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04 Jan 13 - 05:47 PM (#3461426) Subject: She's Not There From: GUEST,DDT I was learning this one as an all-out jazz number rather than a jazz-flavored pop number. It suddenly occurred to me that this might be about a boy who fell for a girl whom he learns is really a boy. At first I assumed it was about a girl who was a user--just hair, makeup, a dress and a smile--no person underneath it all. And I guess that it's a perfectly valid supposition and it still works well enough. But I thought in that case that it would be more appropriate to say "No one's there" rather than "She's not there." But if she turned out to be a he, then it makes sense to term it as "She's not there." I've known a few psycho women in my time and there's always guys willing to date them or marry them. What do I say to them? Nothing. Not my business. They should know what they're getting into. How mad are any of them afterwards about it? Not mad at me at all. Why should they be? Am I supposed to warn them away from her? They'd tell me to go take a flying leap and then bust my jaw for interfering. So why would the character in this song be sore at people for not telling him--as if he would have thanked them or believed them if they had. But picture meeting this girl whose family and friends know is actually a boy and none of them tells you even though you clearly have no idea. That might warrant one of them telling you something--at least in your mind. Especially considering the time in question--the late 50s or early 60s. I don't know. It seemed that when that thought hit me it was like an "AHA!" moment. But who knows, who cares? |
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04 Jan 13 - 05:53 PM (#3461428) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: BobKnight It's a pop song from the '60's - by the Zombies, stop thinking so much. :) |
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04 Jan 13 - 05:57 PM (#3461429) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Doug Chadwick Don't bother tryin' to find her She's not there ..... ..... she's buried under the patio. That'll teach her not to lie to me. Well. I think it's as good an interpretation as yours. DC |
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04 Jan 13 - 06:34 PM (#3461446) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket It's a pop song from the '60's - by the Zombies, stop thinking so much. Which of course makes it a putative precursor to Ray Davies' Lola, in a time before the decriminalisation of homosexuality in Britain, when it was common for the older generation to jibe that a long haired young boy looked just like a girl.... |
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04 Jan 13 - 08:22 PM (#3461499) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Bobert If ya'll think that "She's Not There" is weird try then try... ... "She Talks to Angels" by the Black Crows B~ |
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04 Jan 13 - 09:48 PM (#3461528) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: GUEST,Stim Well, actually, after somebody has been in one of those "and now I realize it was all a lie" relationships, they do ask, "did you know? Why didn't you tell me?" As to the "No one's there"--it doesn't mean the same thing. "She's not there" means that a specific person is gone. The sexual identity of the deceiver doesn't matter, the narrator could have as easily been abandoned by a gay, straight, bisexual, transgender or questioning intimate; the song leaves that to the listener. It could even be a song about someone who feels that they have been abandoned by God. |
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04 Jan 13 - 11:00 PM (#3461565) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Ron Davies I wonder if there's another website where people would agonize about the alleged subtext of a pop song. For Mudcatters, it seems, self-parody comes easy. |
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05 Jan 13 - 04:07 AM (#3461602) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Will Fly Wouldn't exactly call it agonizing... It's easy to dismiss 'pop songs' as always being trivial. Some might be, some not, but if they speak to you and touch you in a way that's significant, then they take on a value. Just my ten-pennorth... |
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05 Jan 13 - 04:57 AM (#3461609) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Bonzo3legs It was just a pop song written by well educated boys from St Albans in the mid 1960s. |
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05 Jan 13 - 05:21 AM (#3461620) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Rog Peek One of my favourites along with 'For Your Love' by The Yardbirds and 'Here Comes The Night' by Them (Van....). Never agonised too much over the meanings of the lyrics, just loved the tunes and arrangements. Rog |
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05 Jan 13 - 05:45 AM (#3461624) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Wheatman Yes I agree with your list Rog She's Not There it is a particular favourite for me as its popularity coincided with a split from a girl I was very fond of at the time. Hence the reason why I investigated this thread. It was in the days before I began to understand why I liked folk music and was still at school. Brian |
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05 Jan 13 - 07:51 AM (#3461645) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Ron Davies "I wouldn't call it agonizing" It's a catchy, fun pop song. Perhaps you prefer "navel-gazing". The comments say a lot more about the posters than about the song. "self-parody..". QED |
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05 Jan 13 - 08:26 AM (#3461655) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Rog Peek I didn't Ron, I called it agonising! Ho Ho... |
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05 Jan 13 - 08:42 AM (#3461662) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Ron Davies Verzeihung |
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05 Jan 13 - 11:32 AM (#3461720) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Uncle Phil "She's Not There" is a fifty year old song, but obviously a lot of us still know it and some of us, like the orginal poster, are still evolving it to suit our own taste. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a folk song, but I wouldn't dismiss it as "just a pop song" either. - Phil |
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05 Jan 13 - 11:52 AM (#3461732) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Ron Davies Nothing wrong with "pop", which, as you may recall, is "popular". For a lot of people, for instance songwriters and singers, that would be enough. And even folkies have been known to sing such songs--and not have to hang their heads in shame. Unless of course their self-images are too badly injured. |
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06 Jan 13 - 12:30 AM (#3461995) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: GUEST,Stim Lots of places out in cyberspace where people agonize over the meanings of songs, and it can be just as painful for the reader... |
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06 Jan 13 - 03:56 AM (#3462017) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Roughyed Surely as the song starts "Well no one told me about her" it would change the song entirely to say "No one's there" later on because it would mean that the people who failed to inform him were no longer available rather than the object of his affections. It always seemed to me to be a conversation between one of the people who didn't grass up his ex and is therefore part of the "No one" referred to in the first lines of the song. It's not unusual to be upset if no one did say anything in these situations but obviously the follow up " Don't Shout at Me, You Wouldn't Have Listened Anyway" was not a hit No indications of transvestism or transexuality in the lyrics or any interview I've ever seen |
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06 Jan 13 - 07:49 AM (#3462055) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Nick Sometimes pop songs are not so sugary as they appear - eg Buck's Fizz: Land of Make Believe - so who knows. You have to write about something so why not something serious? |
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06 Jan 13 - 10:32 AM (#3462109) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Ron Davies The point is you don't really have to write about anything--you can actually live a life primarily offline. Admittedly, serious issues such as gun control can be frustrating to discuss--but at least you will probably hear the opposition's arguments. And even discussing the alleged subtext of pop songs can be fun to read--a "source of innocent merriment", you might say. Even--or maybe especially-- if such discussions, as I noted earlier, slip so wonderfully easily into self-parody. |
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06 Jan 13 - 12:46 PM (#3462160) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: GUEST,Larry Saidman I hadn't really thought about the lyrics before.....but reflecting on them now helps me recognize what a great song it is lyrically (I always knew it was great musically). The narrator had this idealized version of this woman........and discovered it was a lie. And now realizes that this woman he loved...."she's not there". And probably was never there. It says a lot about the delusion of the early stages of romantic love. And so concisely. |
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06 Jan 13 - 03:30 PM (#3462253) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: Ron Davies It's a fine, catchy pop song--especially the rhythm. But the idea that the beloved is not what you imagined is not exactly new. The song sounds more like a dream than anything else. And the repetition--which helps substantially in making the song an Ohrwurm-- makes it somewhat less than concise. I really like the song--but I take it on its own terms. |
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06 Jan 13 - 06:13 PM (#3462333) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: GUEST,Nick Here's how to interpret a song properly with total seriousness- Mama's Got a Brand New Bag. We could perhaps interpret She's Not There on the same line by line basis? |
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07 Jan 13 - 11:18 AM (#3462662) Subject: RE: She's Not There From: pavane Colin Blunstone is still making a good living from it. |